/irc-logs / mozilla / #developers / 2012-07-17 / end

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# Session Start: Tue Jul 17 00:00:00 2012
# Session Ident: #developers
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# [00:01] <Jesse> jlebar: can you think of any assertions that would help catch bugs like https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=757376 ? where the "current page" isn't the same as the "current session history entry"
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# [00:02] <jlebar> Jesse, Probably. But I'm sure bz would explain that all of my first-round guesses fail in edge cases, so you may want to go to him directly. :)
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# [00:03] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/7fe4e32d8ca3 - vliu - Bug 773167 - Otoro: 3G Data Call fail on ICS. r=philikon
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# [00:05] <jwir3> is there a difference between NS_INTRINSICSIZE and NS_UNCONSTRAINEDSIZE? I know that the former is macro'ed to the latter, but I'm wondering if there is a difference in how they should be used
# [00:05] <@smaug> dbaron: ^
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# [00:07] <@dbaron> jwir3, NS_INTRINSICSIZE for replaced elements that have an intrinsic size, NS_UNCONSTRAINEDSIZE for a height that means "use as much space as you want"
# [00:07] <@dbaron> jwir3, though it's probably not followed perfectly
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# [00:08] <jwir3> dbaron, so comparison of say, computed height for an unreplaced element to NS_INTRINSICSIZE is essentially like asking if the height is 'auto'?
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# [00:08] <espindola> decoder, same error I got with 773768
# [00:08] <espindola> can you try patching that one in?
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# [00:10] <decoder> espindola: pushed again =)
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# [00:12] <espindola> decoder, thanks, sorry, forgot to mention that one
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# [00:13] <decoder> np :D
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# [00:15] <@smaug> Jesse: since I can't figure out how to get netscape.security.PrivilegeManager.enablePrivilege("UniversalXPConnect"); working in a web page.... where is your addon which allows web pages to call gc
# [00:15] <@smaug> and cc
# [00:15] <eeejay> is there a standard function to parse an nsAString and return true/false depending on it's json/js value?
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# [00:16] <eeejay> like controls="true/fasle/0/1"
# [00:16] <Jesse> smaug: https://www.squarefree.com/extensions/domFuzzLite3.xpi and then fuzzPriv.GC() / fuzzPriv.CC()
# [00:16] <@smaug> thanks
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# [00:18] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/93c10b4845d2 - Matt Brubeck - Bug 771989 - Don't hide the soft keyboard if another view is active [r=cpeterson]
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# [00:19] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/f1626a741e27 - David Burns - Bug 774223: Make get_logs clear the log file when called; r=mdas
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# [00:22] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/3c3a017a9b04 - Nick Fitzgerald - Bug 774464: Don't delete the sourceMapMap just because the 'putNew' operation failed. r=jimb
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# [00:27] <cjones> cjones, you're burning inbound
# [00:27] <cjones> ok, i'll back out
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# [00:27] <jhammel> cjones: nice, don't let cjones pull any wool over your eyes
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# [00:28] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/0ed13a015623 - Chris Jones - Back out bug 774139. r=bustage
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# [00:36] <atuljangra> Unfocused: ping :) have fixed the patches.
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# [00:45] <cpeterson> are m-a and m-b trees open for (approved) checkins?
# [00:45] <mbrubeck> cpeterson: Yes, looks like it.
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# [00:46] <cpeterson> mbrubeck, what is the usual method for determining tree open/close status? The most recent csets say "NO BUG CLOSED TREE".
# [00:47] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/7fe11a265ac5 - Josh Aas - Bug 774271: Improve DNS logging. r=sworkman
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# [00:52] <vlad> mcote|afk: where do I get templeton?
# [00:53] <vlad> (it has horrible google fu, because a "J S Templeton" is an author)
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# [00:55] <mbrubeck> cpeterson: The tree status appears in the header of TBPL (though caching bugs mean you need to shift-reload to be guaranteed the latest status).
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# [00:55] <cpeterson> mbrubeck, cool. thank you!
# [00:56] <mbrubeck> cpeterson: Alternately, attempt to push without the magic words and watch the hg hook reject you. :)
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# [00:56] * njn is watching bug 774429 with barely contained glee
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# [00:57] <daleharvey> I cant force mochitest to cache a result from a .sjs request
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# [00:57] <daleharvey> response.setHeader('Cache-Control', 'public, max-age=60');
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# [00:59] <daleharvey> any suggestions? (jlebar this is why I was only testing hard reload :))
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# [01:04] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-beta/rev/ad743c3a7d20 - Myk Melez - bug 772638 - disable webapps support on Firefox 15; r=felipe, a=lsblakk
# [01:04] <cjones> wesj, ping
# [01:04] <wesj> cjones: pong
# [01:05] <cjones> hey wesj, do you have a nice, small-ish page for smoke testing touch events?
# [01:05] * cjones suspects you would be very likely to have one :)
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# [01:06] <wesj> cjones: i just have a few little ones i use like: http://limpet.net/w3/touchevents/single-touch.html
# [01:06] <wesj> or http://limpet.net/w3/touchevents/preventDefault.html
# [01:06] <mbrubeck> The former is from http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webevents/file/1950bf275667/tests/touch-events-v1/submissions/Mozilla
# [01:06] <wesj> there's actually some platform tests that should be failing for gonk now that I think about it....
# [01:06] <mbrubeck> You can also run the raw files from there, like http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webevents/raw-file/default/tests/touch-events-v1/submissions/Mozilla/single-touch.html
# [01:07] <wesj> i think... i wonder if they're not running for some reason....
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# [01:07] <cjones> wesj, mbrubeck, thanks
# [01:07] <cjones> wesj, they're not on tinderbox
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# [01:08] <wesj> cjones: yeah, they're ifdef'ed for android... not sure why i did that. i'll test them on try and turn them on if they're ok
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# [01:09] <cjones> cool
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# [01:10] <jlebar> daleharvey, You should ask a necko guy about that; I have no idea. Perhaps you're just sending the wrong headers.
# [01:10] <wesj> cjones: https://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/content/events/test/Makefile.in#104 if you want to try them on gonk
# [01:10] <jlebar> daleharvey, Maybe josh, if he's still around?
# [01:11] <cjones> wesj, great, thanks
# [01:11] <daleharvey> ping josh :)
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# [01:16] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/c3d5bd5996be - David Burns - Bug 772995: Implementing close() for closing windows with marionette; r=mdas
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# [01:19] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/91f65d802d58 - Brian R. Bondy - Bug 770122 - Crash on websites withs ICO containing invalid GIFs. r=joe.
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# [01:20] <@smaug> did we decrease the text size in awesomebar popup ?
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# [01:23] <cjones> it's awesome when *every* C++ compiler on all platforms interprets the same chunk of code differently
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# [01:24] <bkero> a/win 62
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# [01:28] <biesi> cjones, heh, what kind of code is it?
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# [01:28] <njn> why does lazy session restore bring back the web page as it was when I shut down? E.g. bugzilla pages don't show additional comments made since I shut down
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# [01:29] <benjamin> caching?
# [01:29] <evilpie> cool i honestly didn't realize that today is release day
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# [01:29] <njn> evilpie: that's a feature, not a bug :)
# [01:30] <evilpie> also cool yes
# [01:31] <cjones> biesi, admittedly, a rather complex tangle of typedefs
# [01:31] <cjones> but still
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# [01:37] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-beta/rev/eb421f1dd8ef - Chris Peterson - Bug 733147 - Use non-fullscreen VKB for AwesomeScreen landscape mode. r=kats a=akeybl
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# [01:37] <cjones> aaaah no bz or khuey
# [01:37] <jcranmer> wow, LCOV's UI is even more annoying than I remember
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# [01:43] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/5d00c508b09a - Jeff Walden - Bug 773850 - Refactor method guarding to be able to work for methods that must be able to accept a |this| which is a proxy. r=luke
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# [01:46] <decoder> espindola: http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/try-builds/decoder@own-hero.net-59d7e3b2f0ec/try-linux64-debug/try-linux64-debug-bm31-try1-build359.txt.gz
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# [01:48] <mounir> ted: ping
# [01:48] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/b4028e63e58b - Ehsan Akhgari - Bug 707037 - Revert the update check frequency increase (bug 707020); r=bbondy
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# [01:49] <espindola> decoder, will take a look
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# [01:54] <decoder> espindola: thx
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# [01:56] <Unfocused> atuljangra: great, thanks :)
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# [02:01] <taras> i think i entered some weird accessiblity mode on twitter
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# [02:02] <taras> i can no longer type t and a few other letters nearby
# [02:02] <taras> does anyone know about this?
# [02:03] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/646c10f2b4f6 - Hubert Figuière - Bug 773090 - Implement image map properly on Mac and fix AXLink attributes. r=
# [02:04] <WG9s> opr you spilled something into your keyboard if all the letters you cant type are in the same area
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# [02:05] <taras> that was my theory, but those keys only dont work in twitter textarea
# [02:05] <taras> and stuff seems to happen on page when i press em
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# [02:06] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/4785b5869803 - Nicholas Nethercote - Bug 772615 (part 1) - Use the safe JSContext in the JS memory reporter. r=bholley.
# [02:06] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/3b89b2b1340b - Nicholas Nethercote - Bug 772615 (part 2) - Enter compartments before calling GetNativeOfWrapper() in the JS memory reporter. r=bholley.
# [02:06] <evilpie> "remote: ssh: connect to host hg.mozila.org port 22: Connection timed out" huhu?
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# [02:07] <cjones> "method with override specifier 'override' did not override any base class methods" <3
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# [02:13] <njn> glob|away: being able to search for a component when filing a bug is *great*
# [02:15] <KWierso> ^
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# [02:18] <daleharvey> anyone know how to make mochitest cache a request to a .sjs file? pretty much giving up, http://pastie.org/4268970 is what I have currently
# [02:19] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/d679f29a5cf1 - Wes Johnston - Bug 774422 - Send messages to notification handlers after we resume the app. r=mfinkle
# [02:19] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/915fabca7973 - Wes Johnston - Bug 774426 - Set allAppsLaunchable to true since it has no Android implementation. r=mfinkle
# [02:19] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/caadf910b246 - Wes Johnston - Bug 774426 - Get correct origin for app shortcuts. r=mfinkle
# [02:19] <Callek> Ryan: yes 758552 should go to beta
# [02:20] <Callek> no idea how I missed that since I approved+landed at the same time
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# [02:28] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/2958d924acc6 - Luke Wagner - Bug 773927 - Propagate closed-ness in CompExprTransplanter (r=dvander)
# [02:28] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/1a3441f550c0 - Luke Wagner - Bug 773929 - Restore pre-bug 765956 behavior in CheckNewScriptProperties (r=bhackett)
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# [03:08] <njn> sicking: any thoughts on https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=773533#c11 ?
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# [03:19] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/02bffdc6ce7f - Luke Wagner - Bug 683069 - rm setParent hack in JSCompartment::wrap (r=bholley)
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# [03:22] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/36fcd6eabf67 - Alex Crichton - Bug 774330: Don't unnecessarily prevent code from entering the JIT with SPS enabled. r=luke
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# [03:29] <cjones> smaug, ping
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# [03:43] <njn> Is it ok to put stuff in the <body> of a chrome test, as I've done in http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1705967 ? It seems to work
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# [03:53] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/dd08c10193c6 - Ehsan Akhgari - Bug 749101 - Move window.performance to the new DOM bindings; r=bzbarsky
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# [04:22] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/2bf404e6e7e2 - Kan-Ru Chen - Bug 774552 - Draw GraphicBuffer directly. r=roc,BenWa
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# [05:20] <espindola> decoder, checking compiler version... clang version 3.2 (trunk 160176)
# [05:20] <espindola> I have a package with 160227
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# [05:20] <espindola> I am trying to produce the problem, but would you mind trying the new one?
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# [05:21] <db48x> is there a way I can make Venkman show the hidden window?
# [05:21] <db48x> I've got some scripts running in there that I need to debug
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# [05:39] <njn> anyone else on Mac OS X found that Firefox causes the menu bar to disappear?
# [05:40] <Callek> njn: windows users don't need a menu bar, why do OSX users need one?
# [05:40] * Callek jokes of course
# [05:40] <sancus> menu bar disappearing? are you sure you aren't in full screen mode?
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# [05:42] <njn> sancus: well, the window doesn't take up the full screen...
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# [05:44] <sancus> I dunno then, never seen that
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# [05:55] <@dbaron> bz, were you aware that Webkit accepts element.style.WebkitTransform or element.style.webkitTransform (either case), but only lowercase shows up when you enumerate?
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# [05:58] <@bz> dbaron: no, I was not
# [05:58] <@bz> dbaron: I knew it accepted element.style["-webkit-transform"]
# [05:58] <@bz> dbaron: that's interesting....
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# [06:05] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/ba8463beab13 - Rafael Ávila de Espíndola - Bug 774559 - more workaround for llvm.org/pr12127. r=dvander.
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# [06:11] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/99aaaee4e6b9 - Luke Wagner - Bug 753158 - emit ALIASEDVAR ops for upvars (r=bhackett)
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# [06:11] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/f3a508d2576f - Luke Wagner - Bug 753158 - Don't resolve uses to defs that cross non-top-level function statements (r=dvander)
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# [06:32] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/33bece9dee65 - Ehsan Akhgari - Bug 771976 - Part 2: Make sure that nsEditorSpellCheck's refcount doesn't go down prematurely; r=roc
# [06:34] <@roc> great, I've cleared out my review queue and bugmail. Maybe now I can get some work done...
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# [06:47] <darktrojan> does nsIFile.permissions work on windows?
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# [06:49] <darktrojan> MDN says "This parameter may be ignored on systems that do not support file permissions.", but it doesn't specify if it has to be unix-style permissions
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# [07:24] <Sirisian> masayuki, Are you still working on the DOM 3 Events?
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# [07:26] <Sirisian> masayuki, if so, I was wondering if you had seen this: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=738105
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# [07:40] <@roc> jrmuizel: I have a plan!
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# [07:50] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/b722257d15b3 - Ehsan Akhgari - Bug 774556 - Remove nsIDOMWindowPerformance* XPCOM interfaces; r=bzbarsky
# [07:50] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/fb282ed64bf7 - Ehsan Akhgari - Bug 749101 - Part 2: Add a comment mentioning bug 772589
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# [07:54] <@bz> roc: is it cunning?
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# [08:01] <hsivonen> "Metrics JIRA"??? A team now uses JIRA instead of Bugzilla or github buck tracker?
# [08:01] <hsivonen> yay bug tracking fragmentation
# [08:01] <glob> hsivonen, they have been using jira for a while
# [08:01] <glob> hsivonen, there's other bugtrackers in use too
# [08:01] <hsivonen> :-(
# [08:03] <hsivonen> wow I now make speechos even when actually typing (buck vs. bug)
# [08:03] <hsivonen> (or whatever speech recognition mistakes are called)
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# [08:09] <njn> glob: the "search for component to file this bug under" feature is *great*, BTWQ
# [08:09] <njn> *BTW
# [08:10] <glob> njn, indeed; dkl++
# [08:10] <glob> the only problem i have now is i want it when i'm moving bugs between products/components
# [08:11] <njn> glob: and I want to be able to add an attachment when writing a vanilla comment. oh well
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# [08:34] <hsivonen> this is one of those days I wish nsIURI had a method for asking if it is about:blank
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# [08:39] <Optimizer> is Array.slice present in IE 7 ?
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# [08:53] <KWierso> Optimizer: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/tkcsy6fe%28v=VS.94%29.aspx
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# [08:56] <Optimizer> KWierso: thanks :)
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# [09:33] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/f90923727eee - Timothy B. Terriberry - Bug 750447 - Wrap &rtcd->common->variance in IF_RTCD, r=cpearce
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# [09:54] <hsivonen> I guess the way to see if editing nsIURI is OK is to try to get review on a patch that edits it...
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# [09:58] <hsivonen> is it safe to add virtual methods to nsIFoo in %{C++ IDL blocks?
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# [10:00] <hsivonen> alternatively, do we have an IDL incantation that generates a signature of the form virtual bool Foo()?
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# [10:11] <glandium> hsivonen: don't all idl incantations end up in a nsresult Foo(return_type *ret) form ?
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# [10:13] <hsivonen> glandium: dunno
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# [10:14] <hsivonen> looks like mxr doesn't like %{C++ as a search string
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# [10:21] <hsivonen> maybe I should just add a static helper to nsContentUtils instead of trying to add a non-IDL virtual to nsIURI
# [10:22] <NeilAway> hsivonen: you want [notxpcom]bool foo();
# [10:22] <NeilAway> or boolean
# [10:22] <NeilAway> hsivonen: but adding stuff to nsIURI is hairy, because of serialisation
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# [10:32] <hsivonen> NeilAway: thanks
# [10:32] <hsivonen> turns out we already have NS_IsAboutBlank
# [10:33] <glandium> hsivonen: yeah that was added a few months ago by bz iirc
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# [10:42] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/0030a8043e4a - Peter Van der Beken - Fix for bug 769464 (Check mDOMObjectIsISupports when unwrapping). r=bz.
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# [10:50] <NeilAway> hsivonen: ah, neat
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# [10:53] <cjones> tryserver wedged?
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# [10:54] <cjones> nope, there it goes
# [10:55] <darktrojan> it better not be, I'm about to use it
# [10:55] <darktrojan> (thanks for reminding me)
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# [12:20] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/878c00396d62 - Bobby Holley - Bug 767273 - Never declare a stack-allocated PropertyDescriptor within SM, and make API safe. r=luke
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# [12:23] <darktrojan> woah what
# [12:23] <darktrojan> interdiff impossible; taking evasive action
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# [12:32] <hsivonen> nice. when a MediaDocument is being restored from the B/F cache, the docshell doesn't say so
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# [12:38] <arunsl> always -g flag is getting set while compiling mozilla, how can I avoid debug symbols, .mozconfig did not help
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# [12:43] <glandium> arunsl: --disable-debug-symbols
# [12:44] * NeilAway wonders which line of nsHTML5AttributeName doesn't get code coverage
# [12:44] <arunsl> did that
# [12:44] <NeilAway> nice to see all of nsHTML5ElemetnName gets tested though ;-)
# [12:45] <arunsl> it seems like whatever options in mozconfig its not picking
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# [12:45] <hsivonen> NeilAway: is there a URL to a coverage report?
# [12:47] <arunsl> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1706273
# [12:47] <Archaeopteryx> hsivonen: http://people.mozilla.org/~jcranmer2/m-ccov/coverage.html i guess
# [12:49] <arunsl> I have posted the .mozconfig as well as one of the compilation responses
# [12:49] <arunsl> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1706274
# [12:49] <Archaeopteryx> or better http://people.mozilla.org/~jcranmer2/m-ccov/
# [12:50] <arunsl> did clean before build as well, nothing is helping
# [12:50] <arunsl> I am on mozilla-central using mercutical and updated today morning
# [12:50] <arunsl> system is OPENSUSE 12.1
# [12:50] <arunsl> x86_64
# [12:51] <hsivonen> Archaeopteryx: thanks
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# [12:53] <glandium> arunsl: make -C objdir/ echo-variable-MOZ_DEBUG echo-variable-MOZ_DEBUG_SYMBOLS
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# [12:54] <hsivonen> I like the coverage level of nsHtml5TreeBuilder. Too bad the coverage for nsHtml5Tokenizer isn't as high
# [12:55] <Ms2ger> hsivonen, fwiw, I don't think he run mochitests
# [12:56] <hsivonen> Ms2ger: oh. what's the coverage for?
# [12:57] <arunsl> make -C objdir/ echo-variable-MOZ_DEBUG echo-variable-MOZ_DEBUG_SYMBOLS make: *** objdir/: No such file or directory. Stop.
# [12:57] <hsivonen> NeilAway: the untested line should run if there's an attribute name that doesn't exist among the pre-interned names
# [12:57] <glandium> arunsl: replace objdir with whatever your object directory is
# [12:57] <hsivonen> NeilAway: it surprises me that the test run didn't exercise that line
# [12:58] <hsivonen> all you need is one data-foo="bar" attribute to run that line
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# [12:58] <hsivonen> or at least that's how it's supposed to work ;-)
# [12:58] <Ms2ger> I don't remember...
# [12:58] <sawrubh> is there any way to find out the difference between two "qrefreshes" in a patch queue ?
# [12:58] <hsivonen> oh, wait
# [12:58] <hsivonen> I misread the code
# [12:59] <arunsl> nothing compiled
# [12:59] <hsivonen> in addition, the attribute name has to have a hash collision with a known attribute name for the untested line to run
# [12:59] <hsivonen> so yeah
# [12:59] <sawrubh> can we find out the diff between two ".patch" files ?
# [12:59] <hsivonen> it makes sense
# [12:59] <arunsl> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1706277
# [12:59] <hsivonen> so no unknown attribute had a hash collision with a known attribute
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# [13:00] <hsivonen> which is nice for the hash function
# [13:00] <NeilAway> hsivonen: well, now you know, you can write a test for that ;-)
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# [13:00] <arunsl> value 1 is returned
# [13:01] <glandium> arunsl: the second line should be empty
# [13:01] <arunsl> echo-variable-MOZ_DEBUG is returning empty line
# [13:01] <hsivonen> in the element name case, there were 4 hash collisions between unknown element names and known element names
# [13:01] <hsivonen> pretty good still
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# [13:02] <arunsl> echo-variable-MOZ_DEBUG_SYMBOLS is returning 1
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# [13:03] <glandium> arunsl: it shouldn't
# [13:03] <glandium> arunsl: (and it doesn't, here)
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# [13:04] <arunsl> I have not modified any makefile or so here :(
# [13:04] <darktrojan> sawrubh, the queue patches are stored in .hg/patches
# [13:05] <darktrojan> run interdiff patch1 patch2
# [13:05] * brahmana|web wonders if smaug gets notified whenever a whois or whowas or !seen query is run on his name.. !
# [13:05] <darktrojan> oh wait, that's not what you asked
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# [13:06] <arunsl> doing again a hg pull and hg update
# [13:06] <brahmana|web> smaug: ping
# [13:06] <sawrubh> darktrojan: how do you run interdiff ? is that a linux utility ?
# [13:08] <darktrojan> yeah it is, but are you wanting to compare two patches, or look at what's changed between two revisions?
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# [13:09] <sawrubh> darktrojan: yes exactly, and afaik, MQ's have this problem that once you "qrefresh" them then the previous revision is lost
# [13:09] <hsivonen> sigh. our code for restoring MediaDocuments from the B/F cache is annoyingly different from what runs for normal docs
# [13:09] <hsivonen> :-( :-(
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# [13:10] <darktrojan> sawrubh, ah right, I see, you can't do that
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# [13:10] <darktrojan> unless by some foresight your patches folder is also a hg repo
# [13:10] <hsivonen> I wonder if there's a way to ask an nsIDocument if it has ever been to the B/F cache
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# [13:12] * sawrubh didn't have such foresight :s
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# [13:13] * sawrubh inception in the hg repo
# [13:13] <darktrojan> yeah, it's a feature
# [13:15] <sawrubh> darktrojan: how do you use mq's then ? do you do "qcommit" before qrefreshing or have you made your patches folder a hg repo ?
# [13:15] <jcranmer|away> hsivonen: %{C++ IDL blocks should not contain virtual methods since it screws up the accounting in the vtabls
# [13:15] <hsivonen> jcranmer|away: ok. thanks
# [13:16] <darktrojan> I normally just keep the latest version of my patch, or I post it to bugzilla if I've done something important enough
# [13:16] <arunsl> after update it did configure on make and now new settings are picked
# [13:17] <@smaug> brahmana|web: pong
# [13:18] <brahmana|web> Is there anything analogous to nsITraceableChannel for events associated with a DOM node?
# [13:18] <arunsl> make -f client.mk configure is the key to reread .mzconfig file. this is not mentioned in any doc's Please update
# [13:18] <brahmana|web> i.e Can I cache the current listener for a particular event on a given HTML node and then attach mine in place of that? My listener will eventually invoke the old listener after it is done.
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# [13:19] <brahmana|web> I looked at nsIEventListenerInfo but it looks like read-only interface, i.e. I can only find out what listeners are there, but not invoke them.
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# [13:19] <@smaug> brahmana|web: no
# [13:20] <brahmana|web> smaug: ok, so if I override any existing listener then its gone forever?
# [13:20] <@smaug> override?
# [13:21] <@smaug> addEventListener doesn't override
# [13:21] <@smaug> onfoo does though
# [13:21] <brahmana|web> yeah, its the second form.
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# [13:22] <@smaug> brahmana|web: what is the usecase for this?
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# [13:22] <hsivonen> smaug: do you happen to know why we track "this doc is being restored from the B/F cache" state on the docshell rather than the document? Would be OK if I made nsIDocument have an "ever been in the B/F cache" boolean?
# [13:22] <@smaug> nsIEventListenerService could be change to allow this all, *if* the use case is good enough
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# [13:23] <brahmana|web> smaug: oh no no.. I don't think this is such an universal use case. It is for an extension, that too one which will very likely be used internally only.
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# [13:24] <@smaug> hsivonen: I don't know the reason. You'd need to ask bryner, I think. And yes, adding a flag to document would be ok, though why would you need it?
# [13:24] <hsivonen> I'm seeing a curious case where a MediaDocument is being restored from the B/F cache and its DocumentViewerImpl::LoadComplete is called by a stylesheet finishing loading instead of the B/F cache restoration code
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# [13:24] <@smaug> hmm
# [13:24] <hsivonen> smaug: to suppress the usual readyState lifecycle
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# [13:24] <brahmana|web> smaug: What I want is to to be notified when a click event occurs, but without messing around its existing onclick behavior.
# [13:24] <brahmana|web> so if an onfoo is defined, addEventListener for the same "foo" event should probably do what I want, right?
# [13:25] <hsivonen> smaug: it seems bogus to have a stylesheet load finish on a doc that's being restored from the B/F cache
# [13:25] <@smaug> hsivonen: if you want to prevent document to go to bfcache, add something to nsDocument::CanSavePresentation
# [13:26] <hsivonen> smaug: I don't want to prevent going it. I want to be able to tell properly when a document is coming out of there
# [13:26] <@smaug> brahmana|web: yes
# [13:26] <hsivonen> smaug: our current mechanism for telling that is *not* reliable
# [13:26] <brahmana|web> smaug: great, thanks
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# [13:27] <hsivonen> though it wouldn't be unreasonable to make MediaDocuments never go into the B/F cache, I suppose
# [13:27] <hsivonen> maybe
# [13:27] <@smaug> hsivonen: are you talking about the case in DocumentViewerImpl::LoadComplete ?
# [13:27] <hsivonen> smaug: that one and a new case I need to introduce for MediaDocument
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# [13:28] <hsivonen> (to suppress readyState "interactive" setting when a MediaDocument comes out of B/F cache)
# [13:29] <@smaug> DocumentViewerImpl::LoadComplete should check 'restoring' before changing readyState, I think
# [13:30] <hsivonen> smaug: indeed; fixed in my mq
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# [13:31] <hsivonen> would I introduce perf badness if I made MediaDocuments never go into B/F cache? they are synthetic anyway
# [13:31] <hsivonen> maybe the video/audio playback position would reset on going back?
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# [13:32] <@smaug> hmm, ImageDocument is a MediaDocument
# [13:32] <@smaug> I wouldn't want ImageDocument to not go to bfcache
# [13:32] <hsivonen> yes
# [13:33] <hsivonen> and how does one navigate forward from a MediaDocument anyway?
# [13:34] <@smaug> window.location = "nextpage"
# [13:34] <@smaug> rm
# [13:34] <@smaug> hmm
# [13:34] <@smaug> ah
# [13:34] <@smaug> bfcache is for toplevel docs
# [13:35] <@smaug> for now at least
# [13:35] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/b02ca10caa59 - Landry Breuil - Bug 774598: Enable libvpx assembler on OpenBSD/x86(_64). r=derf
# [13:35] <hsivonen> well, I guess I'll try making MediaDocuments override CanSavePresentation with |return false;|
# [13:36] <@smaug> but why does it matter
# [13:36] <Ms2ger> readyState :)
# [13:36] <hsivonen> right
# [13:36] <@smaug> whether one navigates forward
# [13:36] <hsivonen> smaug: how does the doc go into the B/F cache if there's no forward navigation?
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# [13:36] <@smaug> you can navigate back from MediaDocument and then forward, back to the mediadocument
# [13:36] <hsivonen> oh
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# [13:40] <hsivonen> oh. plug-in documents are supposedly already not cache. (dunno if that's still true)
# [13:40] <hsivonen> *cached
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# [13:41] <@smaug> hsivonen: so what happens with Mediadocuments?
# [13:41] <@smaug> they go to bfcache when readyState isn't complete?
# [13:41] <hsivonen> smaug: evidently some of them do go into the cache
# [13:42] <hsivonen> smaug: not AFAICT
# [13:42] <hsivonen> smaug: they just come out in a weird way that causes their stylesheet to load again, it seems
# [13:42] <hsivonen> smaug: so the stylesheet messes up the loadGroup-based mechanism for firing pageshow
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# [13:43] <hsivonen> or, rather, not refiring load
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# [13:44] <momo> hi there
# [13:45] <momo> having little question(s)
# [13:45] <@smaug> hsivonen: so we end up calling LinkStylesheet when coming back from the cache?
# [13:46] <momo> we have a little idea about developing social networking and bring it to open source connecting it with desktop
# [13:47] <hsivonen> smaug: something that makes mozilla::css::SheetLoadData::Run() get called async
# [13:47] <@smaug> hsivonen: could you check if ImageDocument::SetScriptGlobalObject gets called when coming back from bfcache?
# [13:48] <hsivonen> smaug: MediaDocument::SetScriptGlobalObject at least gets called
# [13:48] <momo> where can i find interested developers?
# [13:49] <hsivonen> smaug: oh yeah, there's LinkStylesheet
# [13:49] <bholley> edmorley: just to confirm - it's no longer necessary to set target milestone when pushing to m-i, right?
# [13:49] <@smaug> that looks buggy
# [13:50] <@smaug> hsivonen: I mean, not the part that it gets called again
# [13:50] <@smaug> but the implementation of SetScriptGlobalObject
# [13:50] <hsivonen> smaug: in what way?
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# [13:51] <hsivonen> smaug: other that calling LinkStylesheet when coming out of bfcache?
# [13:51] <@smaug> that is buggy
# [13:52] <@smaug> LinkStylesheet modifies the dom
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# [13:52] <@smaug> we add a new link element every time
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# [13:52] <hsivonen> so maybe instead of banning MediaDocuments from going into bfcache, I should put a "ever been to bfcache" flag on nsIDocument and not link stylesheets again if the doc has been to bfcache
# [13:52] <@smaug> hsivonen: MediaDocument has mDocumentElementInserted
# [13:53] <@smaug> that should be enough to fix the link case
# [13:53] <hsivonen> ok. thanks
# [13:53] <@smaug> though, for some reason mDocumentElementInserted is private. It should be protected
# [13:53] * @smaug thought there is a spec for mediadocument structure
# [13:54] <hsivonen> smaug: it's very loose
# [13:54] <@smaug> ah
# [13:54] <@smaug> where is it?
# [13:54] <hsivonen> smaug: in WHATWG HTML
# [13:54] <@smaug> I wonder if it allow the link elements MediaDocument::LinkStylesheet adds
# [13:54] <@smaug> hsivonen: sure, but where there
# [13:54] <hsivonen> oh.
# [13:54] <@smaug> that spec isn't searchable :)
# [13:55] <hsivonen> (last I checked, we were compliant)
# [13:56] <hsivonen> smaug: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#read-media
# [13:57] <hsivonen> "User agents may add content to the head element of the Document, or attributes to the element host element, e.g. to link to a style sheet or an XBL binding, to provide a script, to give the document a title, to make the media autoplay, etc."
# [13:57] <hsivonen> so pretty much anything goes
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# [13:58] <@smaug> ah, yeah
# [13:58] <@smaug> good, I guess
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# [14:04] <Fallen> jesup: ping
# [14:05] <Fallen> jesup: just read a bug that the builders need libasound ugpraded due to webrtc. I might have missed it, but why isn't configure checking for the correct libasound version?
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# [14:06] <derf> Fallen: Are you talking about bug 697754?
# [14:06] <derf> (jesup is on vacation, BTW)
# [14:08] <Fallen> derf: I was reading bug 771973 where he commented
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# [14:09] <Fallen> its easy to upgrade the build machines, but it would be nice to avoid new contributors having to search for the build error after a long build
# [14:09] <derf> Anyway, the answer was there was no webrtc fallback code to work with older versions of libasound, so the only solution would be to disable webrtc entirely.
# [14:09] <derf> Which seems... suboptimal.
# [14:10] <Fallen> oh I don't object updating, I rather wanted configure to detect this and error out early
# [14:10] <derf> Ah, well, patches welcome!
# [14:10] <derf> There is _so_ _much_ work to do on webrtc build system stuff that nice configure error messages is pretty far down the list.
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# [14:11] <Fallen> heh ok, I get it :)
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# [14:37] * NeilAway looks at _hexStringToLong in disbelief
# [14:37] <Ms2ger> Nice
# [14:38] <mikeratcliffe> dao: ping
# [14:38] <dao> mikeratcliffe: pong
# [14:39] <mikeratcliffe> Hi Dao, do we have a naming convention for temporary attributes (like the focus workaround)?
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# [14:40] <dao> mikeratcliffe: no. we sometimes used the moz prefix, but that doesn't make much sense nowadays since xul is mozilla only anyway
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# [14:41] <mikeratcliffe> So something like _nostealfocus?
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# [14:41] <dao> mikeratcliffe: as a workaround it doesn't need to be pretty or brief. even gnomefocusstealingworkaround would work for me :)
# [14:42] <mikeratcliffe> Ah, okay ... and I don't think we want to use this for all noautohide panels so we can't really use that attribute.
# [14:43] <dao> mikeratcliffe: the underscore prefix seems like a reasonable idea as well
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# [14:44] <mikeratcliffe> I will use your name (well, metacityfocusstealingworkaround), it makes it clear that this is a workaround.
# [14:44] <edmorley> !seen bholley
# [14:44] <mikeratcliffe> Thx
# [14:44] <firebot> bholley was last seen 4 minutes and 6 seconds ago, saying 'mccr8: let's do that' in #content.
# [14:44] <bholley> edmorley: what's up
# [14:44] <Ms2ger> Lemme guess
# [14:45] <edmorley> bah, mibbet not updating channel list again (must get around to finding a proper replcement to pidgin)
# [14:45] <Ms2ger> You're burning something
# [14:45] <edmorley> bholley: was just going to reply to earlier: milestone doesn't need to be set any more, as the tool will do it for you
# [14:45] <bholley> edmorley: ah ok, great! thanks :-)
# [14:45] <bholley> Ms2ger: wrong!
# [14:45] <bholley> ;-)
# [14:45] <Ms2ger> Aww
# [14:46] <edmorley> bholley it's ok, I think Ms2ger must be used to it... :P
# [14:46] <edmorley> bholley have updated https://wiki.mozilla.org/Tree_Rules/Inbound#Please_do_the_following_after_pushing_to_inbound to clarify
# [14:46] <Ms2ger> edmorley, always so terribly nice ::)
# [14:46] <edmorley> just for you :-)
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# [14:59] * edmorley rubs his eyes after reading dev.planning
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# [15:00] <Ms2ger> Only one fork of the Apology thread...
# [15:01] <daleharvey> edmorley: irccloud is nice
# [15:01] <daleharvey> apart from it breaking irc when it goes down, but apart from that its nice, can give an invite if you wish (or anyone else)
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# [15:03] <edmorley> daleharvey: yeah I'm considering giving it a go; I used to use pidgin (and only a few complaints), but from my desktop at home (and would remote in to retain log continuity), but the motherboard has given up life, so just using my laptop now (hence mibbet(
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# [15:03] * Ms2ger likes his xchat
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# [15:04] * edmorley has just discovered bug 765645
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# [15:06] <espindola> why do we create wrappers for nspr headers?
# [15:07] <espindola> as in, why are they in config/system-headers?
# [15:07] <Ms2ger> Maybe for system-nspr?
# [15:07] <espindola> still supported?
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# [15:07] <Ms2ger> I do think so
# [15:07] <espindola> fun
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# [15:08] <espindola> we forward declare some pr types in files that are not wrapped
# [15:08] <Ms2ger> Heh, fun
# [15:08] <espindola> I guess the best is to just replace the forward declare with an include
# [15:09] <Ms2ger> I guess so
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# [15:11] <Ms2ger> WaiveXrayWrapperWrapper
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# [15:11] <Ms2ger> Go us
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# [15:18] <edmorley> Jesse++
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# [15:21] <jcranmer> edmorley: don't bother responding to that bug
# [15:21] * kats|away is now known as kats
# [15:22] <edmorley> jcranmer: I had no intention of doing so, was just an amusing read :-)
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# [15:24] * zzzzz is up for some entertainment - which bug?
# [15:24] <jcranmer> zzzzz: the "WHY DID YOU REMOVE -moz-opacity" bug
# [15:24] <edmorley> 765645
# [15:24] <hsivonen> moral of the story: if you don't want that sort of happiness, don't ship with prefixes in the first place
# [15:24] <zzzzz> tnx
# [15:25] <jcranmer> edmorley: maybe he could be pointed to webkit, which has decided to never remove their prefixed properties?
# [15:25] <jcranmer> :-)
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# [15:26] <edmorley> heh :-)
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# [15:26] <teoli> Woah, that bug went havoc since the last time I read it...
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# [15:35] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/87da9076abce - Geoff Lankow - Bug 760892 - Store available icon sizes from the API in addons.sqlite; r=Unfocused
# [15:35] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/abe7818a3f52 - Geoff Lankow - Bug 767320 - Cache results of Addon.hasResource() to try avoid unnecessary IO; r=Unfocused
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# [15:36] <dao> It makes NO DIFFERENCE what anybody says. The REAL TRUTH is simple.
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# [15:38] <Unfocused> that i recognise what bug that's from is probably a sign i need a holiday
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# [15:39] <zzzzz> heh
# [15:40] <darktrojan> I do too, can I have a holiday?
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# [15:40] * Ms2ger wonders how many man-hours that guy managed to waste
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# [15:41] <ttaubert> hey definitely entertained me while having breakfast some days ago
# [15:41] <ttaubert> don't think that makes up for it but still
# [15:41] <darktrojan> I'm amused by all the people who joined bugzilla just to comment on it
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# [15:42] <ttaubert> heh
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# [15:42] <bholley> jdm: today good for the brain dump, or are you busy?
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# [15:43] <Unfocused> darktrojan: once you've fixed all the bugs, you can have some unpaid leave ;)
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# [15:43] <darktrojan> oh gee thanks
# [15:43] <jdm> bholley: today's good, but let me head in to the office first
# [15:43] <jdm> (9 minute walk)
# [15:43] <bholley> jdm: ok.
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# [15:49] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/164bd49a19a1 - Gabor Krizsanits - Bug 769273 - part1: Prep for refactoring NukeChromeCrossCompartmentWrappersForGlobal. r=bholley
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# [15:51] <daleharvey> anyone that deals with layout want to look at http://pastie.org/4271737 it seems like a pretty serious bug
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# [15:56] <ttaubert> daleharvey: yes, I noticed the same thing quite a while ago but forgot to file it :(
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# [15:58] <jcranmer> bsmedberg: ping
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# [15:58] <@bsmedberg> jcranmer: pong
# [15:59] <jcranmer> bsmedberg: I've noticed that our autoconf seems to default $HOST_CXX to be $CXX
# [15:59] <jcranmer> er, a better way of putting it
# [15:59] <@bsmedberg> perfectly reasonable in general, I think
# [16:00] <jcranmer> HOST_CXX = $(CXX)X)
# [16:00] <jcranmer> in terms of the autoconf.mk
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# [16:00] <jcranmer> I would rather it be HOST_CXX := $(CXX), so that subsequent modifications to CC/CXX/etc. don't change HOST_ versions
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# [16:01] <jcranmer> what would you say to that?
# [16:01] <@bsmedberg> this sounds like something glandium is changing anyway
# [16:02] <jcranmer> (in particular, it makes things like "run a clang plugin" much easier, since it means that any HOST_* stuff that gets built before the plugin don't get tracked by the plugin)
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# [16:02] <glandium> jcranmer: HOST_CC/CXX is set in configure.in
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# [16:03] <jcranmer> glandium: it is, but it gets set to $(CC)/$(CXX) literally
# [16:03] <jcranmer> HOST_CXX = $(CXX)
# [16:03] <jcranmer> that's a copy-paste from the autoconf.mk
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# [16:05] <glandium> jcranmer: ah, i see where you're going... that's bothering because since autoconf.mk is going to be autogenerated, all the equals need to be the same, and i'm pretty sure some only work if they are = instead of :=
# [16:05] <jcranmer> is there any reason that (almost) all the rules in autoconf.mk are = ?
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# [16:05] <daleharvey> ttaubert: I did it for you :P https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=774642
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# [16:07] <glandium> jcranmer: that being said, we have a big problem with HOST_* currently
# [16:07] <glandium> jcranmer: which, basically, prevents cross building for android on windows
# [16:07] <khuey> daleharvey: DOM is probably a bad place to put transitions bugs
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# [16:08] <jcranmer> glandium: it looks like := would be sufficient for autoconf.mk so long as EXPAND_LIBNAME_PATH is defined before autoconf.mk
# [16:08] <daleharvey> yeh I wasnt sure, any suggestions?
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# [16:08] <glandium> jcranmer: and it's defined well after
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# [16:08] <jcranmer> :-/
# [16:09] <khuey> daleharvey: Style System?
# [16:09] <jcranmer> (and so long as variables are defined in the right order)
# [16:10] <glandium> jcranmer: and i'm not entirely sure some makefiles don't rely on being able to override some values, effectively changing other values using them
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# [16:11] <jcranmer> glandium: in theory, it should be possible to do that between include config.mk and include rules.mk
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# [16:12] <glandium> jcranmer: as a matter of fact, MKSHLIB would not work properly if it was :=
# [16:12] <daleharvey> khuey: changed
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# [16:13] <glandium> jcranmer: might as well change it to be a value instead of variable ref
# [16:13] <jcranmer> glandium: so a better fix would be to change the HOST_( variables in configure.in?
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# [16:13] <mcote> vlad: sorry for the late reply, but you can just install it via pip (or easy_install): pip install templeton
# [16:14] <mcote> the github page is https://github.com/markrcote/templeton/
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# [16:14] <ewong> !seen rs
# [16:14] <firebot> rs was last seen 13 weeks, 6 days, 17 hours, 10 minutes and 6 seconds ago,
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# [16:15] <bholley> jdm: ping me when you're ready
# [16:15] <jdm> bholley: fire away
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# [16:19] <jcranmer> espindola: ping
# [16:19] <espindola> jcranmer, pong
# [16:20] <jcranmer> espindola: I want to test out a patched build of clang on try
# [16:20] <jcranmer> should I just send you the patch?
# [16:20] <espindola> jcranmer, you have to build the package
# [16:20] <espindola> makes it easier next time you want to try it
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# [16:21] <jcranmer> and the steps for doing this are ... ?
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# [16:31] <espindola> jcranmer, the patch is you have is for the build-clang.py script, right?
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# [16:31] <espindola> You need to run it on os x, a centos 5 32 bit machine and a 64 bit one
# [16:32] <espindola> assuming you want to be able to test on all 3
# [16:33] <jcranmer> no, it's a patch to clang itself
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# [16:36] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/5d1fa1a0a7a3 - Eddy Bruel - bug 722555 - Add RGBA support to BMP encoder; r=jgilbert
# [16:36] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/4e46f0fa911d - Eddy Bruel - Merge of bug 722555 with m-i
# [16:36] <sawrubh> firebot: seen Yoric
# [16:37] <firebot> yoric was last seen 6 days, 21 hours, 5 minutes and 17 seconds ago, saying 'Ok, thanks.' in #developers.
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# [16:38] <espindola> jcranmer, ah, ok, so you also need to patch build-clang.py to apply it
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# [16:41] <tbsaunde> does it make sense that GetStyleXUL() on a frame for html returns an object?
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# [16:48] <zzzzz> more amusement https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=774653 <-versioning
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# [16:48] <jdm> heh
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# [16:50] <sawrubh> jdm: Good morning
# [16:50] <NeilAway> tbsaunde: sure
# [16:50] <jdm> sawrubh: heyo
# [16:51] <NeilAway> jcranmer: when I last wanted to build with host gcc and target cl I didn't have any problems with autoconf.mk :-P
# [16:51] <momo> is there a kind of github not for code but for it projects and concepts?
# [16:52] <sawrubh> it seems the guy has censored relatively mild abusive words and kept the worse ones intact in https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=774653
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# [16:54] <edmorley> sawrubh: b.m.o runs a profanity filtering bugzilla extension which hides certain words unless you have canconfirm iirc
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# [16:54] <edmorley> sawrubh: http://blog.gerv.net/2011/01/profanivore_a_bugzilla_extension_which_e/
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# [16:55] <zzzzz> haha, now he's set it as a 'blocker' :P
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# [16:59] <froydnj> how in the world does NS_ShutdownXPCOM get skipped?
# [16:59] <khuey> by crashing?
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# [16:59] <froydnj> nope
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# [17:01] <tbsaunde> NeilAway: ok, so this code is just on crack then
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# [17:01] <tbsaunde> NeilAway: btw happen to understand what nsStyleXUL is for though by any chance?
# [17:02] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/2ee313f65ccf - Brad Lassey - bug 763166 - crash in mozilla::AndroidGeckoLayerClient::SetFirstPaintViewport r=kats
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# [17:04] <jcranmer> froydnj: I think release builds now exit(0) around the time profile-before-change is called
# [17:05] <khuey> did that actually happen?
# [17:06] <jcranmer> hmm, maybe not yet, but I thought I saw a checkin like that fly buy
# [17:06] <@bz> tbsaunde: storing the computed values of XUL-related CSS properties?
# [17:06] <Ms2ger> jcranmer, I'm pretty sure that hasn't happened yet
# [17:07] <tbsaunde> bz: ok, and we do that on html things why???
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# [17:07] <khuey> jrmuizel: whatever happened to that bug you were going to file?
# [17:08] <jrmuizel> khuey: I broke the test case
# [17:08] <jrmuizel> khuey: I will get you to help me fix it
# [17:08] <khuey> haha
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# [17:09] <zzzzz> khuey: is now a world-traveler has no time for fixing things
# [17:09] <khuey> heh
# [17:10] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/64ca6f0f5c9f - Geoff Brown - Bug 774322 - use correct process name in RProcess; r=jmaher
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# [17:10] <@bz> tbsaunde: because "xul-related" doesn't mean it has anything to do with XUL
# [17:10] <khuey> edmorley: if you can find something to back out for bug 774657 we should back it out
# [17:10] <@bz> tbsaunde: if some caller asks for the style data, we have to compute it
# [17:10] <khuey> edmorley: memory corruption is an sg:crit :-/
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# [17:11] <@bz> tbsaunde: so what caller is asking for it?
# [17:11] <@bz> tbsaunde: (I would _generally_ not expect it to be computed except for actual XUL frames)
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# [17:11] <@bz> tbsaunde: because at first glance only the XUL layout code should care about those property values
# [17:12] <@bz> tbsaunde: but of course anyone can always enumerate the computed style on a node or something... ;)
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# [17:14] <tbsaunde> bz: there was some a11y code that was trying to decide if something was horizontal or vertical
# [17:14] <@bz> ah
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# [17:14] <@bz> well, then. ;)
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# [17:14] <tbsaunde> bz: the comment suggested this was supposed to only be for xul boxes
# [17:14] <@bz> yep
# [17:14] <@bz> via box-orient?
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# [17:15] <tbsaunde> bz: so, I just wanted to make sure there wasn't a layout bug before adding a elem->IsXUL()
# [17:15] <tbsaunde> bz: I didn't look to see what css was actually set
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# [17:15] <tbsaunde> bz: thanks :)
# [17:16] <edmorley> khuey: hmmm, sorry I guess I should have set that sooner
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# [17:18] <khuey> edmorley: well, a hidden intermittent orange bug is of limited use :-/
# [17:18] <edmorley> guess I can CC the other sheriffs
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# [17:22] <@bz> tbsaunde: elem->IsXUL() is wrong
# [17:22] <@bz> tbsaunde: since you actually care about the frame type, not the element type...
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# [17:23] <vlad> mcote: yeah, I had to 'templeton install' in the html dir and tweak results.html to pick up a newer jquery
# [17:23] <mcote> you needed a newer jquery?
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# [17:24] <tbsaunde> bz: is there a easy check on a frame?
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# [17:24] <mcote> vlad: yeah the whole thing needed proper packaging but alas speedtests is a pretty low priority so I never got around to it
# [17:24] <vlad> nod
# [17:24] <vlad> mcote: are the tests actually running somewhere?
# [17:24] <vlad> the ones that you have
# [17:24] <mcote> yup yup
# [17:24] <mcote> http://mrcote.info/speedtests/results.html
# [17:25] <mcote> there is a win7 box set up in the MV office
# [17:25] <@bsmedberg> gfritzsche: what are the version numbers (on the plugin tag) for both versions of Flash?
# [17:25] <@bsmedberg> you might be able to get them from about:plugins too
# [17:25] <tbsaunde> bz: also, I'm not sure how muh that difference really matters
# [17:26] <mcote> vlad: there was an outage for a bit when the servers got moved and something broke, but aside from that it runs twice daily
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# [17:26] <@bz> tbsaunde: looking
# [17:26] <mcote> vlad: nightly is updated automatically, and I periodically update all the other browsers myself, manually
# [17:26] <@bz> tbsaunde: IsBoxFrame() ?
# [17:27] <@bz> tbsaunde: note that once dholbert lands flexbox you might need to update your stuff....
# [17:27] <gaston> derf: what could go wrong if building with --with-system-libvpx ? from the 9 patches applied on top of bundled libvpx, are they pushed upstream (and maybe in the 1.1.0 libvpx we have...) ?
# [17:28] <tbsaunde> bz: practically its almost certainly good enough, since what I want to prevent is saying that something with role=scrollbar/slider//seperator has a horizontal / vertical state based on layout, and instead always look at aria-orientation
# [17:28] <derf> gaston: We don't have 1.1.0. We have 1.0+patches.
# [17:28] <gaston> sorry, i meant that i had a systemwide libvpx 1.1.0
# [17:28] <derf> Everything that isn't obsolete has been upstreamed, except the stdint.h patch.
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# [17:29] <gaston> oh so just building against a systemwide 1.1.0 libvpx is risk-free ?
# [17:29] <derf> gaston: Right, but that will break with bug 774060.
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# [17:29] <gaston> oh, i see
# [17:30] <derf> I think we need to update our webrtc code to fix that, but that probably means upgrading the in-tree version to 1.1.0 as well.
# [17:30] <derf> (which is a bunch of work)
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# [17:30] <derf> (or we patch the webrtc.org code to handle both versions, but I think doing that has pretty low value)
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# [17:31] <gaston> so if i want to port the webrtc code to openbsd i'd better keep building against the bundled libvpx ?
# [17:31] <derf> Anyway, I personally wish --with-system-libvpx didn't exist.
# [17:31] <derf> gaston: Yeah, I think that is best.
# [17:32] <espindola> ehsan, is the git mirror synchronizing? I see it updating inbound, but not master
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# [17:33] <@ehsan> hmm
# [17:33] <@ehsan> let me take a look
# [17:33] <gaston> so i'll try building against systemwide libvpx 1.1.0 when the in-tree version is updated to 1.1.0
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# [17:37] <@ehsan> espindola: I think my update script has a bug which causes master to not update when you push from inbound to central without doing a merge
# [17:37] <@ehsan> espindola: basically I do an hg incoming to determine whether I need to do something, and incoming says you don't need to pull anything in that case
# [17:37] <gfritzsche> bsmedberg: about:plugins is as expected - 9.0.298.0 and 10.3.183.20 ... shows no mimetype and plugin name for FP 9 though
# [17:37] <espindola> ehsan, when it is a fast-forward?
# [17:37] <@ehsan> espindola: anyways, fixed it manually now
# [17:37] <@ehsan> espindola: yeah
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# [17:37] <espindola> ehsan, awesome. Thanks
# [17:37] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/0888a88ab4c7 - Jeff Gilbert - Bug 758844 - Requiet gfx/gl code spew - r=bjacob
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# [17:38] <gfritzsche> bsmedberg: still considering how to properly debug this on that slow&laggy remote machine
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# [17:39] <jlebar> edmorley, I really am working on those browser-element oranges.
# [17:39] <jlebar> edmorley, But I only get a few pushes a day to tryserver, so it's slow.
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# [17:40] <@ehsan> is there any way in mercurial to get the sha1 for the tip of a remote branch without pulling it?
# [17:40] * sheeri-afk is now known as sheeri
# [17:40] <gfritzsche> bsmedberg: hang on, i get two entries for 10.3.183.20 in about:plugins... which is weird
# [17:40] <glandium> i have CC ForgetSkippable sometimes taking several seconds on aurora from last week
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# [17:40] <@bsmedberg> gfritzsche: I'm mainly interested in why we chose the old plugin in nsPluginHost::FindPluginForType and then FindPreferredPlugin
# [17:40] <@bsmedberg> oh?
# [17:40] <@bsmedberg> I wonder if the plugin tags have the wrong data
# [17:40] <edmorley> jlebar: thank you :-)
# [17:41] <@bsmedberg> gfritzsche: gotta run some errands, but checking the actual plugin tag array data would be pretty easy and useful, I bet
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# [17:44] <tbsaunde> ehsan: well, the mercurial protocol isn't that hard, I think you just need to do the hand shake, and send branch
# [17:44] <@ehsan> tbsaunde: I meant by running an hg command, without having to write code :)
# [17:45] <tbsaunde> so, if some curl / socat goo counts I think so
# [17:45] <froydnj> ehsan: hg incoming?
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# [17:45] <@ehsan> froydnj: no, hg incoming tells you which csets you don't have in your local clone
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# [17:47] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/9a6fcbd8f96a - Gabor Krizsanits - Bug 769273 - part2: Refactoring NukeChromeCrossCompartmentWrappersForGlobal. r=bholley
# [17:47] <froydnj> ehsan: but surely one of those is the remote tip, e.g. hg incoming -n -l 1 ?
# [17:47] <@gavin> ehsan: that would include the tip of the remote branch, right?
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# [17:47] <@ehsan> yes, here's my problem
# [17:48] <@ehsan> I have a repo which pulls from both m-c and m-i
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# [17:48] <@ehsan> now if I have the tip of m-i, and somebody pushes m-i to m-c without needing to merge (when nothing has landed on m-c since the last merge) then hg incoming m-c will tell me there's nothing to pull
# [17:48] <@ehsan> and rightly so
# [17:49] <@ehsan> but what I want to ask hg is what does the tip of m-c point to now
# [17:49] <@ehsan> so that I can compare it with the latest tip that I pulled
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# [17:51] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/e232349d1c64 - Jared Wein - Bug 754169 - Fix intermittent orange related to imprecise scrolling positions in test. r=ehsan
# [17:52] <edmorley> ehsan: hg identify <remote server>
# [17:53] <edmorley> or is that not what you want?
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# [17:53] <gdamjan> at one point there was an idea to integrate the Prism into Firefox, i.e the possibility to run a single webapp in a separate Firefox process - anyone knows what happened to it
# [17:54] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/353b4785836a - Ms2ger - Bug 770046 - Disable test.
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# [17:54] <jaws> gdamjan: maybe #openwebapps might be what you want?
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# [17:54] <Archaeopteryx> gdamjan: got renamed to webrunner and died
# [17:54] <@ehsan> edmorley: thanks, that's precisely what I needed! :)
# [17:55] <@ehsan> edmorley: one question: does running hg id without any params access the default remote?
# [17:55] <edmorley> ehsan: np :-)
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# [17:56] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-beta/rev/1513818e3c54 - Bas Schouten - Bug 758980: Assume DirectWrite is buggy when it returns empty alpha texture bounds. r=jrmuizel a=akeybl
# [17:56] <edmorley> ehsan: no that will id local; you'll need "hg identify $(hg paths default)"
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# [17:56] <tbsaunde> jlebar: do you know anything about a traceback in git-bz line 758 with invalid unicode convertion?
# [17:57] <wlach> lmandel: ok ready for you :) maybe you should just drop by here? ahal and mdas were interested in listening in on the conversation as well
# [17:57] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/9b8e56ada40e - Gabor Krizsanits - Bug 769273 - part3: Cu.nukeSandbox. r=bholley
# [17:57] <@ehsan> edmorley: thanks
# [17:57] <jlebar> tbsaunde, Unlikely, but I'll have a look if you pastebin the error?
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# [17:59] <tbsaunde> jlebar: http://paste.debian.net/179488/
# [17:59] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/7a26f7c820bd - Jeff Walden - Bug 770344 - Experiment implementing __proto__ as an accessor. r=luke
# [17:59] <tbsaunde> jlebar: first bit is print template, then the traceback
# [17:59] <jlebar> tbsaunde, It's likely the quote chars.
# [18:00] <jlebar> tbsaunde, Yeah, it's saying those are non-ascii.
# [18:00] <jlebar> aria-orientation=vertical
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# [18:01] <tbsaunde> jlebar: oh, hm are the " the utf8 ones I guess
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# [18:01] <tbsaunde> jlebar: any idea how to fix?
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# [18:01] <jlebar> tbsaunde, Delete that line?
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# [18:02] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/74b54ce37285 - Gabor Krizsanits - Bug 769273 - part4: avoiding innerization in NukeCrossCompartmentWrappers. r=bholley
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# [18:02] <tbsaunde> jlebar: that line is from the bug subject no?
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# [18:03] <jlebar> tbsaunde, Yeah, but it's just a comment.
# [18:03] <tbsaunde> jlebar: and shouldn't git-bz deal with valid utf8 anyway? after all it isn't 1990..
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# [18:03] <jlebar> tbsaunde, Well, if you want to fix it in git-bz, you're probably as capable as I am.
# [18:03] <jlebar> tbsaunde, But it's not clear to me what /bugzilla/ is expecting.
# [18:04] <jlebar> tbsaunde, It may interpret everything as ASCII.
# [18:04] <tbsaunde> jlebar: tht trace back happens before git-bz invokes an editor on the template, so I don't have any way to edit it
# [18:04] <jlebar> tbsaunde, Ah.
# [18:04] <tbsaunde> I could change git-bz to not make that comment, but that's a stupid hack
# [18:04] <jlebar> Indeed.
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# [18:04] <Ms2ger> That doesn't mean much, bugzilla will probably mangle it anyway
# [18:04] <jlebar> tbsaunde, Can you just modify your commit message so it doesn't have the UTF-8 quotes?
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# [18:05] <gaston> hmm wondernig why fx release is 14.0.1, i don't see a 14.0 on mozilla-release after 14.0b12... anyone got a hint ?
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# [18:05] <Ms2ger> gaston, mobile
# [18:05] <jlebar> gaston, Syncing desktop and mobile version numbers.
# [18:05] <tbsaunde> 1killa -killa -H spee
# [18:05] <glob> Ms2ger, bugzilla deals with utf8 just fine
# [18:05] <jdm> what package do I need to install on OS X to get an aclocal?
# [18:05] <@ehsan> espindola: I think I fixed that bug, fwiw
# [18:05] <tbsaunde> espeak eee
# [18:05] <froydnj> Ms2ger: bug 772202 r?
# [18:05] <gaston> aaah right, thx
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# [18:05] <jlebar> glob, Do I have to do something so bugzilla knows my attachment description is utf-8?
# [18:05] <Ms2ger> gaston, they released Fennec 14.0 with known security vulnerabilities, so they needed a dot release...
# [18:06] <Ms2ger> froydnj, on my plate for tomorrow morning
# [18:06] <tbsaunde> jlebar: I thought we decided the utf8 " were coming from bugzilla?
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# [18:06] <froydnj> Ms2ger: cool, thx
# [18:06] <glob> jlebar, no, all strings are utf8
# [18:06] <jlebar> glob, Thanks.
# [18:06] <glob> jlebar, is there a problematic attachment?
# [18:06] <Ms2ger> glob, orly?
# [18:06] <Ms2ger> Since?
# [18:07] <jlebar> glob, No...problematic tool: Mine.
# [18:07] <glob> Ms2ger, maybe 2004
# [18:07] <jlebar> tbsaunde, You're right. So edit the bug's summary?
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# [18:07] <tbsaunde> jlebar: I'd happily try and fix, but I don't understand pythons interactions with unicode at all really
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# [18:08] <jlebar> tbsaunde, I'm no more of an expert than you are. But it's not a particularly complicated thing.
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# [18:09] <jlebar> tbsaunde, http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5141559/unicodeencodeerror-ascii-codec-cant-encode-character-u-xef-in-position-0
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# [18:09] <jlebar> tbsaunde, I think you just need to specify an encodingg.
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# [18:10] <jlebar> tbsaunde, f.write(template.encode('utf-8')) or something.
# [18:10] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/a4b0d896e9ca - Joel Maher - Bug 772531 - detect when a tegra reboots via log file parsing, mark test as red and allow tbpl to get accurate information. r=wlach
# [18:10] <tbsaunde> jlebar: ok, I'll look then
# [18:10] <edmorley> Ms2ger: someone isn't going to be happy... ;-)
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# [18:14] <Ms2ger> edmorley, someone else than me for once...
# [18:14] <edmorley> heh :-)
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# [18:16] <decoder> espindola: okay, I was trying the version proposed in the bug you linked in the webrtc compile failure
# [18:16] <decoder> where is the newer manifest?
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# [18:24] <mccr8> glandium: are you getting that frequently? (second long ForgetSkippable)
# [18:24] <mccr8> glandium: it might be good to file a bug on that and CC smaug and me.
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# [18:28] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/4a25a6c994fd - Nicolas Pierron - Bug 772509 - Freeze a compilation output instead of a script. r=bhackett
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# [18:28] <espindola> decoder, sorry, I found and just fixed a bug
# [18:29] <espindola> should have a new clang up in a sec
# [18:29] <espindola> and yes, I forgot to upload that bug too :-(
# [18:29] <espindola> ehsan, cool
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# [18:30] <decoder> espindola: cool! :) no worries, it's not blocking anything either right now
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# [18:30] <espindola> decoder, the scary thing is that these are visibility bugs, not asan bugs
# [18:30] <espindola> so I really want to get them fixed
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# [18:31] <espindola> they show up on your builds because of the differences in inlining
# [18:31] <espindola> (and a bug in the old ld we have)
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# [18:31] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/cf567772a2f7 - Boris Zbarsky - Bug 607267. Don't style imagemaps as block. r=dbaron,tbsaunde
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# [18:32] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/0cad1e553bea - Boris Zbarsky - Bug 768537 part 1. Update parser support for dictionaries to spec changes. r=jlebar
# [18:32] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/9deb8edb5070 - Boris Zbarsky - Bug 773519. Speed up string argument conversion in DOM bindings by faking an XPCOM string. r=peterv
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# [18:32] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/ea5a243a60f1 - Boris Zbarsky - Bug 768537 part 2. Allow dictionaries to be initialized with null or undefined, and treat them as dictionaries in which everything has its default value. r=peterv
# [18:34] <decoder> espindola: heh, then it's actually good we're finding them now :D
# [18:34] <espindola> decoder, yes!
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# [18:39] <edmorley> Ms2ger: notice you haven't commented with the url :P
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# [18:41] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/edd3c6776ae9 - Margaret Leibovic - Bug 774491 - Use cached x/y values and some arithmetic instead of also caching left/top values. r=mfinkle
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# [18:45] <tbsaunde> jlebar: yeah, http://paste.debian.net/179498/ fixes it for me, not sure if you want a pull request, I don't mind if you just make that chnge :)
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# [18:45] <jlebar> tbsaunde, I can just make the change. Thanks for figuring it out!
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# [18:47] <tbsaunde> jlebar: np, I just wish python delt with utf8 more reasonably :/
# [18:47] <jhammel> tbsaunde++
# [18:47] <jhammel> that is one thing i'll give ruby
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# [18:48] <Ms2ger> edmorley, oh, haven't I?
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# [18:50] <edmorley> Ms2ger: thought it might be intentional :-)
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# [18:51] <Ms2ger> edmorley, why would you think such a thing? :)
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# [18:53] <edmorley> bz: burning on inbound
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# [18:55] <jlebar> Um. $ hg up
# [18:55] <jlebar> abort: 00manifest.i@9af68876415e: no node!
# [18:55] <Ms2ger> Damn those assertions
# [18:55] <mbrubeck> full speed ahead
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# [18:55] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/e5b62d2de123 - Marshall Culpepper - Bug 774708: Ensure sBluetoothEventObserverTable is valid before attempting to query observers, fixing a Bluetooth crash in emulator. r=qDot
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# [18:56] * Ms2ger glares at people who land on a burning tree
# [18:57] <edmorley> bz: sorry backed out since tree starting to get busy now
# [18:58] <edmorley> wasn't sure which cset, so had to take all three
# [18:58] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/8212be806c67 - Ed Morley - Backout 9deb8edb5070 (bug 773519), ea5a243a60f1 & 0cad1e553bea (bug 768537) for compilation failures
# [18:58] <taras> is http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/2012-07-01-03-05-37-mozilla-central/ the right directory to get nightly from july 1st from?
# [18:58] * froydnj doesn't understand how URLs are destroyed properly on shutdown in *this* case, but not in *that* one
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# [18:59] <Ms2ger> edmorley, I could have told you it was the last one :)
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# [18:59] <@bz> edmorley: er?
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# [18:59] * @bz looks
# [18:59] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/e29a85527782 - Paolo Amadini - Bug 759397 - The width of the Downloads Panel should be larger and locale-dependent. r=gavin
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# [18:59] <@bz> edmorley: sorry. :(
# [19:00] * @bz did build this locally!
# [19:00] <edmorley> bz: np :-)
# [19:00] <@bz> but apparently someone changed something since then. :(
# [19:00] <@bz> xraywrapper????
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# [19:00] <edmorley> bz: btw if it helps with speed, target milestone doesn't need to be set on landing now, the tool I am now using will do it for me
# [19:00] <@bz> oh
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# [19:01] <@bz> ghrm
# [19:01] <@bz> this compiled on clang
# [19:01] <@bz> but apparently our other compilers don't like it???
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# [19:01] <edmorley> bz: doesn't bode well for the clang switch surely :-(
# [19:01] <@bz> ../../../dist/include/nsTSubstring.h:641: error: 'PRUint32 nsAString_internal::mFlags' is protected
# [19:01] <froydnj> problems with bleeding-edge compilers? surely not
# [19:01] <@bz> ../../../dist/include/mozilla/dom/BindingUtils.h:796: error: within this context
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# [19:01] <Ms2ger> Bah
# [19:02] <@bz> well
# [19:02] <@bz> so...
# [19:02] <@bz> I think clang is correct
# [19:02] <@bz> I have class A
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# [19:02] <@bz> with member mFoo
# [19:02] <Ms2ger> edmorley, could you star the IDB crashtest on Waldo's push? I mis-starred it :/
# [19:02] <@bz> protected member
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# [19:02] <@bz> I have class B inheriting from A
# [19:02] <@bz> a function in B uses offsetof(A, mFoo)
# [19:02] <edmorley> Ms2ger: ok :-)
# [19:03] <@bz> this should work, imo
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# [19:03] <@bz> And does in clang and afaict msvc
# [19:03] <@bz> just not in gcc. :(
# [19:04] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/a430390ef8cd - Rafael Ávila de Espíndola - Bug 774671 - Fix mismatched declarations. r=luke.
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# [19:05] <glandium> mccr8|away: today it's very frequent. otoh, this is the very first time it happens to me with this build
# [19:05] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/72c79a019f5a - Dale Harvey - Bug 741717 - Add a reload method to browser elements. r=jlebar
# [19:06] <froydnj> bz: well, if it is, gcc apparently still doesn't accept it :(
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# [19:06] <@bz> froydnj: yes, I noticed that, thank you. ;)
# [19:06] <@bz> This is ridiculous
# [19:07] * @bz ifdefs the code as "not gcc"
# [19:07] <froydnj> bz: sorry, that was unclear: trunk gcc still doesn't accept it, fwiw
# [19:07] <@bz> froydnj: mmm
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# [19:07] <froydnj> if msvc seems happy, I'll file a gcc bug
# [19:07] <@bz> well, I guess I don't have any data yet about this working on msvc
# [19:07] <@bz> the builds did start
# [19:07] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/574ec170d4ac - Mihnea Balaur - Bug 773031 - Get xpcshell tests working on B2G emulators, r=jmaher
# [19:07] <@bz> but I have neither red nor green yet
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# [19:08] <reuben> offsetof is a nightmare to use across different compilers
# [19:08] <@bz> yes, well
# [19:08] <Ms2ger> Oh, so kaie's point was that he doesn't have enough people to do his work?
# [19:08] * Ms2ger didn't get that from the attacks in the original post
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# [19:08] <kaie> my work? I attacked someone?
# [19:09] <kaie> Yes, there are too few resources to get the work around core NSS e.g. SSL/TLS security done
# [19:09] <@bz> kaie: well, to be honest your original post came across as "you're all wasting your time doing pointless things"
# [19:09] <kaie> it has always been like that, since I can remember
# [19:09] <@bz> kaie: and yes, I agree that we're generally underinvested in NSS and PSM
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# [19:10] * @bz makes this stuff build with gcc
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# [19:10] <derf> kaie: My understanding is that this is true of basically every aspect of what Mozilla does.
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# [19:11] <kaie> bz, thanks for your feedback. I didn't intend to be that harsh, but yes I think Mozilla is trying to dance on too many weddings and focus too little on core security
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# [19:11] <glandium> mccr8|away: and i have no idea what useful information i can provide in a bug report
# [19:11] <glandium> smaug: ^
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# [19:11] <froydnj> bz: msvc apparently doesn't like it either
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# [19:12] <@bz> froydnj: ok
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# [19:12] <@bz> kaie: that's a perfectly reasonably position. Might even be true. ;)
# [19:13] * @bz hates compilers
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# [19:13] <@bz> ok
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# [19:13] <@bz> going to reland a version that does compile with gcc
# [19:13] <@smaug> glandium: I'm missing the context
# [19:13] <@bz> and hope that it works on msvc too
# [19:13] <@smaug> glandium: oh, (second long ForgetSkippable)
# [19:13] <glandium> smaug: seconds-long CC ForgetSkippable on an aurora build from last week
# [19:13] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/68ad396da5c8 - Matt Woodrow - Bug 539356 - Part 1 - Allow LayerManagers to have multiple user data objects. r=roc
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# [19:14] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/d8a9613e3b7e - Jonathan Watt - Bug 539356 - Part 4 - Reinstate the foreignObject registering code so that bug 605265 doesn't slow down SVG in general. r=mattwoodrow
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# [19:14] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/8a93aee3c7be - Matt Woodrow - Bug 539356 - Part 5 - Change SVG effects painting to use a LayerManager transaction. r=roc
# [19:14] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/b6673dc80218 - Matt Woodrow - Bug 539356 - Part 6 - Add compositing paint flashing to BasicLayers. r=roc
# [19:14] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/b2aeb8be3ded - Matt Woodrow - Bug 539356 - Part 7 - Store FrameLayerBuilder objects on the LayerManager instead of nsDisplayListBuilder. r=roc
# [19:14] <@smaug> glandium: if you know what page is causing it
# [19:14] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/79cd5721b7b4 - Matt Woodrow - Bug 539356 - Part 3 - Make GetParentPresContext() succeed when the current PresContext has no frames. r=bz
# [19:14] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/515b6054b996 - Matt Woodrow - Bug 539356 - Part 2 - Add new API to BasicLayers. r=roc
# [19:14] <@smaug> glandium: hmm, aurora last week...
# [19:15] <Ms2ger> glandium, do you have documentation somewhere about the canonical ordering of makefile variables? ;)
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# [19:15] <@smaug> that one shouldn't have change which might have caused some slowness is certain cases
# [19:15] <glandium> smaug: i have absolutely no idea. might as well entirely be my fault. i just figured it's actually an aurora from 2 weeks ago, with the install having been replaced
# [19:15] <glandium> with an aurora from last week
# [19:16] <@smaug> oh, you mean the old build is still running but the files on hd aren't the same anymore
# [19:16] <glandium> Ms2ger: usually, there's only topsrcdir, srcdir, vpath and DEPTH before including autoconf.mk, and relativesrcdir when there is one
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# [19:16] <glandium> smaug: yep
# [19:16] <@smaug> glandium: that tends to cause all sorts of weirdness
# [19:17] <@dbaron> bz, meeting in common area on css3-variables
# [19:17] <@bz> dbaron: coming
# [19:18] <glandium> smaug: i restarted with the same session, i'll see if that happens again
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# [19:19] <kaie> bz, https://wiki.mozilla.org/NSS:BurnDownList has additional important tasks that are waiting for attention and not getting it. I'm sure I could find several more.
# [19:19] <kaie> kwilson owns that page
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# [19:19] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/0e6c79d17f42 - Boris Zbarsky - Bug 773519. Speed up string argument conversion in DOM bindings by faking an XPCOM string. r=peterv
# [19:20] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/524dd4cc9a4f - Boris Zbarsky - Bug 768537 part 1. Update parser support for dictionaries to spec changes. r=jlebar
# [19:20] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/6102678421c0 - Boris Zbarsky - Bug 768537 part 2. Allow dictionaries to be initialized with null or undefined, and treat them as dictionaries in which everything has its default value. r=peterv
# [19:20] <kaie> also we know how fragile our mechanism is for tracking the security status of web pages. Mixed security etc. I'd call that absolutely highest priority. But nobody has dared to help yet with a rewrite.
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# [19:21] <kaie> there are so many bugs, I sincerly hoped you all didn't expect that I'd be realistically able to handle all of it on my own
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# [19:23] <edmorley> Ms2ger: re mis-star, filed bug 774732 for the assertion
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# [19:23] <Ms2ger> Thanks
# [19:23] <mbrubeck> kaie: It won't help with high-priority bugs in the short-term, but if you'd like to work on growing new contributors then I'd be happy to steer people toward any bugs you mark as mentored... (also helpful for existing Mozilla contributors who want to dip their toes into a new area)
# [19:23] <Ms2ger> mbrubeck, that's assuming people want to dip their toes into NSS/PSM ;)
# [19:23] <kaie> I'm absolutely happy to help educate any C programmer who is interested to help with our C security code
# [19:24] <kaie> I'll be in Mountain View from August 2 to August 10, inclusive
# [19:24] <mbrubeck> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Mentors has instructions on how to mark mentored bugs, if you can identify some bugs where you'd like to help new contributors.
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# [19:25] <mbrubeck> On #introduction we usually steer several new people per week toward mentored bugs, which show up automatically on http://www.joshmatthews.net/bugsahoy/
# [19:25] <mbrubeck> Right now there is only one Networking bug opened with a [mentor=] tag: http://www.joshmatthews.net/bugsahoy/?net=1
# [19:26] <kaie> the problem is that our bugs are complicated
# [19:26] <mbrubeck> Yeah, it can be hard to find good starter bugs.
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# [19:27] <kaie> we need people who are willing to forget everything else and dive into this area, and resist assignments from management to help out in other areas
# [19:28] <mbrubeck> heh
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# [19:28] <edmorley> kaie: surely it would make more sense to get agreement from management and get them to assign resources, if they are needed?
# [19:29] <Wes--> kaie: I doubt anybody thought you could handle all that stuff on your own - the push back you got on the mailing before your "it's security, dummy" mail was because you were difficult to differentiate from a fast-release-trainer hater
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# [19:31] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/2b31d5caf239 - Boris Zbarsky - Bug 773519 followup to make this code deal with silly string consumers too. No review.
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# [19:32] <kaie> edmorley, sure. My point is, this security stuff is difficult to dive into. If you only do it every once in a while, you won't get far. I've been contributing since 2001, and I still believe I've only scratched the surfaces of the NSS library.
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# [19:32] <jcranmer> it's also inscrutably lacking in documentation
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# [19:34] <kaie> But we also have lots of work to do on a higher level, closer to the application
# [19:34] <kaie> For example, it would be highly desirable to rewrite the way we track the security state of a web page
# [19:35] <kaie> Like, are all displayed elements of the web page really originating from a secure source?
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# [19:35] <kaie> as of today, we are still depending on a bad bad hack that was chosen in the birth of mozilla.org
# [19:35] <kaie> we rely on after the fact notifications
# [19:36] <kaie> We have bug 62178 which was an attempt to make a first step towards a better implementation
# [19:36] <Ms2ger> If I were your manager, I'd be hiring people already ;)
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# [19:36] <kaie> note I'm not a Mozilla employee
# [19:36] <Ms2ger> ... Then I'd start by hiring you :)
# [19:36] <@bsmedberg> What does "File extension does not match MIME type." mean when trying to upload a file to wikimo?
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# [19:37] <kaie> Ms2ger, I don't think that would change anything, because Mozilla and NSS security is still my highest priority. I'd prefer that instead of hiring me, Mozilla should hire additional people not yet working on this are
# [19:37] <kaie> a
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# [19:37] <kaie> s/still/already/
# [19:38] <sicking> smaug: hahaha! That onfoo thing is awesome. Very happy to see it go then :)
# [19:38] <Ms2ger> kaie, sgtm
# [19:38] <kaie> but because finding new developers is difficult, I'm returning to my original proposal
# [19:38] <sicking> smaug: very excited that mPrototype is dying. Those patches look awesome
# [19:38] <Ms2ger> Can I sign off new positions already? :)
# [19:39] <kaie> find existing developers/employees who have C coding skills and ask them if they want to be reassigned to core security
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# [19:39] <Ms2ger> sicking, did mounir forward my message? :)
# [19:39] <jcranmer> kaie: I will also point out that a lot of security architecture is in general poorly documented
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# [19:39] <sicking> Ms2ger: which one?
# [19:40] <jcranmer> I can recall spending hours trying to figure out how to set up a server certificate for use with ssltunnel
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# [19:40] <Ms2ger> That I don't care about b2g security, but I do care about those tests :)
# [19:40] <kaie> jcranmer, if there are too few people to get even the most critical bugs solved, who shall gonna write that documentation? we need growth in that area, then we can find time to write it
# [19:40] <jcranmer> and add the fake CA to the application, etc.
# [19:41] <kaie> my impression is that there are generally too few people interested to work on the boring background security stuff.
# [19:41] <jcranmer> kaie: I don't have a solution I can propose
# [19:41] <jcranmer> well, beyond ideas that everyone would hate
# [19:42] <jcranmer> "make everyone spend 1 hour a day documenting something in Mozilla"
# [19:42] <mounir> Ms2ger: he is not at the office yet
# [19:43] <Ms2ger> jcranmer, make everyone spend one hour on getting the wiki running somewhat reliably first? :)
# [19:43] <jdm|f00ding> kaie: fwiw, I just sent an email to a possible new contributor interested in "robust coding, encryption and security" listing some of these opportunities you're talking about. I'll put you in touch if they seem interested.
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# [19:44] <kaie> jdm|f00ding, wonderful, looking forward to it. If it made sense, I'll be happy to spend my full time in Mountain View between August 2 - August 10 to talk with people interested to help
# [19:44] <jdm|f00ding> kaie: these are volunteers from all over the world; location doesn't matter.
# [19:44] <kaie> (I'm booked on Aug 7+8, but free otherwise)
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# [19:44] <kaie> true
# [19:44] <kaie> I can do skype chats, too
# [19:44] <kaie> video etc
# [19:44] <jdm|f00ding> kaie: also a second person emailed me saying they use C, so I'll recommend this too
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# [19:45] <kaie> cool
# [19:45] <jdm|f00ding> kaie: it's useful to know that there is a specific need for C coders; I often get emails from people concerned that they don't know C++ but do know C
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# [19:45] <kaie> We have lots of work to do at the general-purpose NSS library leve, which is pure C.
# [19:46] <Ms2ger> Also, CVS :/
# [19:46] <jcranmer> Ms2ger: never heard of in-code documentation?
# [19:46] <Ms2ger> jcranmer, no, what's that?
# [19:46] <kaie> Ms2ger, that should be irrelevant, learning CVS takes 20 minutes
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# [19:47] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/2f270ead16ee - Mihnea Balaur - Bug 773826 - Move mkDirs implementation into base class, r=wlach
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# [19:47] <jcranmer> Ms2ger: it's a style where you use specially-formatted comments that can be parsed by special tools that moves all documentation near to the points of interface within code
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# [19:47] <jcranmer> hopefully minimizing the chance that the documentation goes out of date
# [19:47] <Ms2ger> Does it hurt code coverage? :)
# [19:47] <Wes--> why is NSS still managed in CVS, BTW? CVS->hg is pretty trivial, and with an hg id, m-c could manage it as a sub-repo instead of a mirror
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# [19:48] <Ms2ger> Wes--, because wtc, AIUI
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# [19:48] * @bsmedberg humms "because because because because" from the wizard of oz
# [19:48] <Wes--> ah. Yes, same reason as NSPR then, sigh
# [19:48] <jhammel> the thing about in-code documentation is that you actually need infrastructure to move the documentation
# [19:48] <jhammel> our inability to include code snippets in our wiki is, at best, annoying
# [19:49] <@bsmedberg> there is a practical unresolved difference there too
# [19:49] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/2e3a7f87629c - Jonathan Griffin - Bug 774553 - Wrap getBoolPref with try/catch, r=mdas
# [19:49] <@bsmedberg> MDC believe in making contributions easy and everything localizable
# [19:49] <@bsmedberg> which is pretty much the opposite of how in-code docs work
# [19:49] <Wes--> also MDC manages multiple versions concurrently
# [19:49] <@bsmedberg> that conflict is... unresolved
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# [19:50] <Ms2ger> bsmedberg, fair point on l10n, but I think a lot of people in this channel find hg easier to work with than this month's wiki :)
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# [19:50] <@bsmedberg> I don't disagree. I think that having fully localized docs on code-level stuff is not a good idead.
# [19:50] <jcranmer> bsmedberg: well, at the level of doxygen comments, how useful is l10n in the first place?
# [19:51] <@bsmedberg> And that we'd be better off with an English-only site autogenerated from code.
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# [19:51] <@bsmedberg> But I've made this argument before.
# [19:51] <@bsmedberg> jcranmer: I am not the person to be arguing with.
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# [19:51] <jcranmer> I mean, I totally understand making, e.g., HTML or JS guides that are localized
# [19:51] <@bsmedberg> Yes, there is a big difference between web developer facing docs
# [19:51] <Ms2ger> Being a pretty fluent English speaker, I don't disagree: )
# [19:51] <@bsmedberg> and gecko internals docs
# [19:51] <jcranmer> even "how to do l10n"
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# [19:52] <glandium> Why do we allow one person to prevent us from getting rid of the mess that handling nspr and nss in cvs is?
# [19:52] <@bsmedberg> glandium: because they are the module owner?
# [19:52] <jcranmer> glandium: I think wtc is more or less the only developer of nspr?
# [19:52] <@bsmedberg> And nobody has yet been in a position to change that effectively.
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# [19:53] <glandium> bsmedberg: and his only excuse is that he doesn't have the time to learn mercurial. seriously?
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# [19:53] <@bsmedberg> no, he believes that CVS is good
# [19:53] <@bsmedberg> or something
# [19:53] <glandium> i mean, how much time of how many people have been wasted on cvs?
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# [19:53] <jcranmer> wait what?
# [19:53] <jcranmer> at the very least, svn would work better
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# [19:55] <jesup|laptop> ted: ping
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# [19:56] <glandium> i wonder if hg has the same http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-cvsserver.html
# [19:56] <jesup|laptop> ted: for disabling features in aurora, should I change the default in configure.in (my assumption) or add a --disable-blah to browser/config/mozconfig?
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# [19:56] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/b62f77f85ea4 - Gregory Szorc - Bug 774736 - Move Sync's version to Makefile.in; general cleanup; r=glandium
# [19:56] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-beta/rev/3eab36f43652 - ffxbld - Automated checkin: version bump for fennec 15.0b1 release. DONTBUILD CLOSED TREE a=release
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# [19:56] <@ted> jesup|laptop: change the default in configure.in plz
# [19:56] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-beta/rev/695042299ec9 - ffxbld - Added FENNEC_15_0b1_RELEASE FENNEC_15_0b1_BUILD1 tag(s) for changeset 3eab36f43652. DONTBUILD CLOSED TREE a=release
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# [19:56] <glandium> jesup|laptop: change the default in configure.in
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# [19:56] <kaie> glandium, bsmedberg, we'll meet on Aug 7+8 in Mountain View to discuss the future of CVS for NSPR/NSS
# [19:56] <jesup|laptop> Yup, thanks, that's what I figured, but someone asked why not mozconfig
# [19:57] <glandium> kaie: i'm not in CA
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# [19:57] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-beta/rev/dc005f41ebdd - ffxbld - Automated checkin: version bump for firefox 15.0b1 release. DONTBUILD CLOSED TREE a=release
# [19:57] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-beta/rev/665eb00dde9e - ffxbld - Added FIREFOX_15_0b1_RELEASE FIREFOX_15_0b1_BUILD1 tag(s) for changeset dc005f41ebdd. DONTBUILD CLOSED TREE a=release
# [19:57] <glandium> jesup|laptop: because mozconfig is not used by everyone
# [19:57] <kaie> Also, I made proposals how an acceptable migration away from CVS for these projects could be done, but nobody has followed up on my proposals
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# [19:57] <jesup|laptop> yup
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# [19:57] <Ms2ger> gps, hmm, is services/sync/version.txt one of the things updated every mergeday?
# [19:57] <kaie> also, moving away from CVS requires that all current tools and tests will be rewritten to be based on the new stuff. someone has to do that work first
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# [19:58] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/ed67ac9fcef4 - Jared Wein - Bug 773743 - Add the portrait and user display name to the share button popup. r=gavin
# [19:58] <kaie> My proposal is to start with an automatic mirror from CVS to something else, so the core developers could still commit to CVS
# [19:58] <gps> Msg2er: yes. I have a bug on file to get the release drivers to update it every release
# [19:58] <kaie> Another option is to switch to SVN, which would be acceptable to the core developers, because it's simple and supports tagging of individual source files with version numbers
# [19:59] <jcranmer> bsmedberg: question: should we prefer using the PL_* functions over standard libc functions?
# [19:59] <gps> rnewman and I just do it manually now
# [19:59] <jcranmer> e.g., PL_strncpy, etc. ?
# [19:59] <kaie> glandium, I assume a sufficient amount of people will join that meeting that want cvs to die
# [19:59] <@bsmedberg> jcranmer: no, I think not
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# [19:59] <@bsmedberg> jcranmer: unless you need to pass the buffers across DLL boundaries, in which case you need a common allocator somehow
# [20:00] <glandium> kaie: please, not subversion
# [20:00] <Ms2ger> gps, isn't that just a wiki page somewhere?
# [20:00] <kaie> the point is to find a transitional solution. it's not as simple as moving to something else.
# [20:00] <Ms2ger> glandium, bzr, dammit! ;)
# [20:00] <froydnj> Ms2ger--
# [20:00] <jcranmer> bsmedberg: excluding allocators (so things like PL_strncasecmp) ?
# [20:00] <kaie> glandium, I'm neutral. It was offered as an alternative to cvs. Do you believe svn is worse than cvs?
# [20:00] <gps> Ms2ger: yes, I believe it is. I'm lazy :)
# [20:00] <@bsmedberg> jcranmer: no, I cannot think of a reason the NSPR versions would be preferable
# [20:00] <gps> ... maybe I'll do that today
# [20:01] <glandium> kaie: it's not worse than cvs, but it's not very much better
# [20:01] <jcranmer> jcranmer@xochiquetzal /src/trunk/mailnews $ grep -Rn '\<PL_' * | wc -l
# [20:01] <jcranmer> 1625
# [20:01] <Ms2ger> lsblakk, ping on behalf of lazy gps :)
# [20:01] <Ms2ger> bsmedberg, but, it's portable! ;)
# [20:01] <jcranmer> I have my work cut out for me
# [20:01] <lsblakk> Ms2ger: pong
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# [20:02] <jcranmer> I'm beginning to think we need a list of things from NSPR that are no longer desirable to use in code
# [20:02] <Ms2ger> lsblakk, you guys have a wiki page listing the places where version numbers need to be updated when merging, right?
# [20:02] <kaie> glandium, the core developers of nspr/nss want simplicity, because the library is small, there are no branches. they don't want the overhead of hg. they want the simplicity of being able to cherry pick source file revisions for release tags
# [20:02] <froydnj> jcranmer: cat nspr.h ? ;)
# [20:02] <Ms2ger> froydnj++
# [20:02] <gps> lsblakk: I found bug 761311. maybe I'll address that today...
# [20:03] <glandium> kaie: like, hg is complicated
# [20:03] <glandium> and simplicity, when talking about cvs, allow me to laugh very hard
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# [20:03] <lsblakk> Ms2ger, gps - i update according to https://wiki.mozilla.org/Release_Management/Merge_Documentation
# [20:03] <jcranmer> froydnj: well, we have no non-NSPR equivalent for threading or atomics stuff
# [20:03] <glandium> jcranmer: threading is coming
# [20:03] <kaie> glandium, so my proposal was to do automatic mirroring from cvs to hg, to let the core developers continue to do that, and allow everyone else to work on hg
# [20:04] <@bsmedberg> all of that is coming
# [20:04] <Ms2ger> lsblakk, thanks
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# [20:04] <Ms2ger> gps, go update that page? :)
# [20:04] <jcranmer> I was going to write an MFBT atomics at some point in time
# [20:04] <lsblakk> there are a surprising number of places we need to bump :)
# [20:04] <Wes--> kaie: I'm not sure automatic mirroring is any better than not mirroing at all
# [20:04] <lsblakk> gps: until bug 761311 is fixed, please do add whatever file(s) Sync relies on that need bumping
# [20:04] <kaie> glandium, I've repeatedly ended up in situations where my hg tree was in a state that I had no idea what happened. I frequently had to ask in #hg for help. Such as messages "crosses branches" etc.
# [20:05] <Wes--> kaie: a half-hearted change is going to be worse, IMO, than no change at all
# [20:05] <jcranmer> bsmedberg: bug numbers?
# [20:05] <froydnj> jcranmer: please put it in bug 732043, then
# [20:05] <kaie> glandium, I don't agree with you, cvs is simpler than hg
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# [20:05] <Wes--> kaie: for an NSPR/NSS-sized project, that should *not* happen
# [20:05] <jcranmer> froydnj: I was going to put atomics there
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# [20:05] <froydnj> hooray
# [20:05] <Wes--> kaie: if you're willing to try and move NSS, I am willing to be your personal hg tech support guy
# [20:05] * adrian is now known as adrian|dinner
# [20:06] <Ms2ger> Speaking of silly nsprisms
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# [20:06] <jcranmer> I only just got rid of LL_* in most of comm-central
# [20:06] <Ms2ger> bsmedberg, would you take a patch to get rid of, say, PRSize in Gecko?
# [20:06] <gps> lsblakk: is https://wiki.mozilla.org/Release_Management/Merge_Documentation#Version_Bumps to your liking now?
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# [20:06] <jcranmer> PRCList is next on my chopping block
# [20:07] <@bsmedberg> Ms2ger: if we can do it safely, sure
# [20:07] <kaie> Wes--, please everyone notices, it's not about me. I'm completely neutral. I'm the person in the middle. I'm giving you the arguments of the core developers who don't want the move.
# [20:07] <@bsmedberg> Ms2ger: but that's really no different than PR*int*, right?
# [20:07] <Wes--> kaie: IIUC you are 1/2 of the NSS team?
# [20:07] <Ms2ger> bsmedberg, it's just a typedef for size_t, so I think so
# [20:07] <kaie> I'm using hg all the time with mozilla, I've learned my way around
# [20:07] <Wes--> kaie: if so, I can extend my offer to the rest of the team too ;)
# [20:07] <lsblakk> gps: sure, so m-c needs to change to NEXT_VERSION whenever we bump
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# [20:07] <Wes--> kaie: okay -- FWIW, we use hg with sub-repos heavily internally, after a migration away from cvs
# [20:08] <Ms2ger> bsmedberg, the PR*int* ones bitrot too much for me to attempt it ;)
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# [20:08] <Wes--> kaie: I have seen developers do almost all of the crazy things you're likely to bump into. ;)
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# [20:08] <jcranmer> bsmedberg: speaking of removal, are you going to get around to my remove-support-for-static-checking patches?
# [20:08] <Wes--> I even have code in my hg repo now that was originally checked into *RCS*
# [20:08] <gps> lsblakk: yup!
# [20:08] <@ehsan> espindola: I'm going to announce the clang change in the meeting today
# [20:09] <Wes--> that gave me a good chuckle when I spotted it
# [20:09] <kaie> Wes-- how can people be as productive as in the past if they have to rely on you being around and available to answer questions?
# [20:09] <Ms2ger> Wes--, my condolences ;)
# [20:09] <lsblakk> gps: all good then, thanks for updating the wiki
# [20:09] <jcranmer> ehsan: has it happened yet?
# [20:09] <Wes--> kaie: I'm sure it won't take long to a) learn, b) reap benefits
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# [20:09] <@ehsan> jcranmer: no
# [20:09] <kaie> Wes-- It doesn't help to try to convince me. It's necessary to talk with the people who insist on it most, and that's supposed to happen on August 7+9
# [20:09] <kaie> 7+8
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# [20:09] <Wes--> kaie: I have 3-5 man teams using hg at high tempo, there are definite time savings over even the short term
# [20:10] <froydnj> jcranmer: and the s/nspr// threading stuff, bug 773491 (at least a start)
# [20:10] <kaie> Wes-- can you agree that the web interface of hg still sucks, when compared with Bonsai?
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# [20:10] <Ms2ger> kaie, I sure know smaug agrees with that!
# [20:10] <jcranmer> froydnj: that was the bug I couldn't find
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# [20:11] <Wes--> kaie: Haven't used Bonsai in so long, I can't comment intelligently. FWIW we use 'bitbucket' instead of 'hg serve', but get similar results
# [20:11] <jcranmer> froydnj: you should probably merge that with the xpcom Mutex/CondVar into MFBT
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# [20:11] <biesi> kaie, the hg interface is way better at some things
# [20:11] <kaie> Wes-- you must look at the big picture. With Bonsai you can look at blame and try to undersand who changed things 10 years ago, which single line, in an easy way
# [20:11] <kaie> biesi, I haven't found anything that I like better
# [20:12] <biesi> kaie, I like how easy it is to look at history
# [20:12] <biesi> i.e. what was checked in most recently
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# [20:12] <froydnj> jcranmer: I think Waldo outlined a plan for doing that in comment 4
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# [20:12] <Ms2ger> kaie, from my somewhat biased point of view, I think hgweb is at least as good at that
# [20:12] <biesi> and it's easy to go from that to diff
# [20:12] <@smaug> kaie: yes. hg web is horrible
# [20:12] <biesi> i.e. entire checkin in one diff
# [20:12] <@smaug> comparing to cvs bonsai
# [20:12] <Ms2ger> Might be because I'm not good at bonsai
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# [20:13] <froydnj> Ms2ger: practice more, grasshopper
# [20:13] <jcranmer> froydnj: you forgot the final step: use C++11 thread support if it's available :-)
# [20:13] <kaie> biesi, how do I get a web page that lists all changes to file mozilla/security/manager/ssl/src/nsKeygenHandler.h in the last 10 years?
# [20:13] <gaston> ehsan: what clang change, the osx switch from gcc 4.2 ?
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# [20:13] <Wes--> kaie: hm, yes, for this I use 'hg annotate' in my daily work -- the web version seems okay, though? http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/annotate/ba8463beab13/nsprpub/pr/src/prvrsion.c
# [20:13] <Ms2ger> But with bonsai I always seem to end up editing the URL or searching for all the changes that happened at one time
# [20:13] <biesi> kaie, trick question, that file hasn't been in hg for 10 years, and you can't blame hg for that
# [20:13] <@ehsan> gaston: correct
# [20:14] <Wes--> biesi: no, you can, it should get that info from CVS import
# [20:14] <jcranmer> kaie: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/log/ba8463beab13/security/manager/ssl/src/nsKeygenHandler.h
# [20:14] <biesi> kaie, but your answer is http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/filelog/ba8463beab13/security/manager/ssl/src/nsKeygenHandler.h otgherwise
# [20:14] <biesi> kaie, (via MXR -> Hg Log)
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# [20:14] <Ms2ger> Wes--, you can blame the people at Mozilla who decided against that
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# [20:14] <gaston> meh, so i should start working on switching my openbsd builds away from gcc 4.2 before the next uplift..
# [20:14] * @smaug never understood why we didn't take cvs history to hg
# [20:14] <biesi> yeah. importing nspr/nss into hg should be able to keep the history
# [20:14] <biesi> especially for trunk only
# [20:15] <Wes--> Ms2ger: sure, but there is no reason to make that same decision for NSS/NSPR. Concretely, I have a (private) repo right now with check-ins dating back to 1997
# [20:15] <@ehsan> gavin: where can I find more information about what the social features will be?
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# [20:15] <Ms2ger> Wes--, I agree, but I don't think blaming hg for that decision makes sense
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# [20:15] <Wes--> Ms2ger: okay, yes, point
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# [20:15] <froydnj> I think ehsan has a git repo with full cvs import information...?
# [20:16] <Ms2ger> froydnj, sure, but git sucks
# [20:16] <kaie> biesi, thanks, I didn't know that's possible. I never found that before.
# [20:16] <biesi> kaie, which? the hg log?
# [20:16] <@ehsan> froydnj: github.com/mozilla/mozilla-central
# [20:16] <kaie> that web page
# [20:16] <biesi> Ms2ger, I love git!
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# [20:17] <biesi> kaie, glad I could teach you something :-)
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# [20:17] <Wes--> biesi: I'm not a fan, but I'll take *any* DAG VCS over linear VCS any day
# [20:17] <Ms2ger> biesi, I must declare you mad :)
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# [20:17] <biesi> kaie, if you want to generate those URLs manually, use "tip" instead of that revision hash to get the most recent one
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# [20:17] <biesi> Ms2ger, Wes--: mind you that may be because I learned it first and got to know it really well
# [20:18] <biesi> but also because it doesn't try to force a useless merge tool upon you
# [20:18] <Wes--> biesi: what I find frustrating with git is that you need to understand what it's doing, rather than understanding what it is you want to do
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# [20:18] <biesi> Wes--, well I never had git tell me about multiple heads...
# [20:18] <Wes--> biesi: I don't know what tool you're talking about, but I use the CVS-style merge tool (<<<<<< local changes) here and couldn't be happier. :)
# [20:19] <@gavin> ehsan: Firefox::SocialAPI, #socialdev
# [20:19] <biesi> Wes--, me too, but that's not the default
# [20:19] <jcranmer> hg tends to have superior UI to git, but git has superior infrastructure
# [20:19] <@gavin> ehsan: looks like the wiki pages are out of date already
# [20:19] * biesi may have stockholm syndrome with git, of course :-)
# [20:19] <jcranmer> I manage all of my git projects with hg
# [20:20] <Wes--> biesi: I consider getting warned about pushing a second head to be a feature, not a bug
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# [20:20] <biesi> Wes--, that situation can't really happen with git
# [20:20] <Ms2ger> mbrubeck, just one more static initializer? I would have expected 4...
# [20:20] <Wes--> biesi: then that's even worse! There are times when I *want* to push a second head
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# [20:20] <biesi> Wes--, sure, then you tell git to do just that
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# [20:21] <biesi> Wes--, but by default you don't have to worry
# [20:21] <gaston> ehsan: sorry for the maybe dumb question, but does switching osx to clang means devs can use c++11 stuff or those are two independent things ?
# [20:21] <Wes--> biesi: so by default it pulls and merges and commits when you ask it to push?
# [20:22] <biesi> Wes--, no, shows you an erorr
# [20:22] <Waldo> gaston: there's some dependency, but c++11 requires more than adopting clang
# [20:22] <@ehsan> gavin: thanks
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# [20:22] <jcranmer> gaston: MSVC requirements still lag, and we're still supporting gcc 4.2 on OS X for this release cycle AIUI
# [20:22] <@ehsan> gaston: that is an independent decision
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# [20:22] <gaston> okay
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# [20:22] <Wes--> biesi: so, IIUC, you are objecting to the error message "pushing now would make a new head, use -f if you really want that"
# [20:22] <gaston> we dont have libc++ yet on openbsd, so i was wondering if i should move to clang or gcc 4.6
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# [20:23] <biesi> Wes--, I was really talking about pulling
# [20:23] <jcranmer> ehsan: if/when we do end support for gcc 4.2 on OS X, it would be nice to have a nice explicit listing of minimum requirements on tier-1 platforms
# [20:23] <biesi> and the concept of having "multiple heads"
# [20:23] <biesi> I want git's branch concept
# [20:23] <gaston> so old msvc is the next "blocker" for c++11 features ?
# [20:23] <kaie> ok, next hg question. Suppose there have been checkins during the last 2 days. Now there is the urgent need to create a release. However, one of the checkins during the last 2 days is considered as too risky for the release and should be excluded. As of today, the NSPR/NSS developers manually tag the source files they older versions
# [20:23] <kaie> in hg they would have to backout, right?
# [20:23] <@ehsan> jcranmer: that has been discussed in the dev.platform thread
# [20:23] <biesi> kaie, no
# [20:23] <Wes--> kaie: they could make a new head
# [20:23] <jcranmer> gaston: we generally can't use the standard library anyways because we have issues with exceptions
# [20:23] <@ehsan> jcranmer: the current plan is to drop 4.2 support in 18
# [20:23] <biesi> kaie, you can totally create branches (bookmarks) from old versions, or what wes said
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# [20:24] <jcranmer> ehsan: what would our min gcc support be then? :-)
# [20:24] <kaie> ok, I've been using hg for a while, but I still haven't learned what "a new head" means
# [20:24] <@ehsan> jcranmer: 4.4 iirc which is the lowest we need to support for android
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# [20:24] <jcranmer> (ugh, 4.5 would give us lambdas)
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# [20:24] <@smaug> hmm, is is possible to have a macro which affect to what to include. Something like #define MY_INCLUDE(fooname) #include "nsIDOM##fooname##.h"
# [20:24] <kaie> ok, how much help we'll get from you with the existing NSS/PSM bugs if we switch away from cvs? maybe that can help convince them? ;)
# [20:25] <Wes--> kaie: check in a change to a rev which is not tip - you now have a new head. "head" is the top of a DAG of patches which yield a specific version of the files in the repo
# [20:25] * @smaug tests
# [20:25] <gaston> jcranmer: oh so the "dependency" on libc++ is not there yet if using clang,right ?
# [20:25] <Wes--> kaie: there are never guarantees, but partitioning the ecosystem never helps
# [20:25] <kaie> Wes-- how can I check in something to a rev which isn't the tip?
# [20:25] <jcranmer> gaston: clang should be able to use to libstdc++ more or less for the near future
# [20:26] <kaie> I have to create a branch based on that older rev?
# [20:26] <jcranmer> using C++11 atomics might throw a wrench in that
# [20:26] <Wes--> kaie: you update to the revision you mean before checking in the change
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# [20:26] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-beta/rev/4ed856d7be28 - tbirdbld - Added THUNDERBIRD_15_0b1_RELEASE THUNDERBIRD_15_0b1_BUILD1 tag(s) for changeset eb421f1dd8ef. DONTBUILD CLOSED TREE a=release
# [20:26] <kaie> Wes-- this also means it's very easy to accidentally check in to the wrong place
# [20:26] <Wes--> kaie: think of 'hg update -r XXX' to be a graph traversal instruction to get the files set up as though rev XXX were a head
# [20:26] <Waldo> gaston: probably msvc, yeah; but I'm not 100% certain, some of our buildbots apparently use system gcc, not our gcc, for inane build tasks; there's whingeing when you try to do things that break gcc 4.0 or 4.1
# [20:26] * davehunt is now known as davehunt|away
# [20:26] <gaston> jcranmer: okay, i think i see the picture
# [20:26] <kaie> while in cvs, there's only trunk and branches
# [20:27] <Waldo> gaston: also note that probably we want to keep gcc 4.2 limping along for a bit, too :-\
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# [20:27] <Waldo> gaston: clang being newer than gcc 4.6 would probably be preferable, but really if you stay new (why not gcc 4.7?) you probably will be more or less reasonable
# [20:27] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/d9a15eec0412 - Eddy Bruel - Bug 767059 - Commenting the parser; r=jorendorff
# [20:27] <kaie> Wes-- that's the complexity people are worried about.
# [20:28] <gaston> Waldo: i'm (openbsd) on gcc 4.2, thanks wy i'm asking :) but from my understanding after 18 it wont be supported, hence only bringing more build failures to fix for the ones using it
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# [20:28] <jorendorff> thank you for doing it!
# [20:29] * jorendorff looks around, confused
# [20:29] <BenWa> Where do I file bugs to Firefox services/sync?
# [20:29] <edmorley> BenWa: mozilla services::sync *
# [20:29] <BenWa> ty
# [20:29] <edmorley> BenWa: the new bug filing search box lets you type "sync" and see where it appears, if that helps for the future
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# [20:33] <gfritzsche> hm, do i have to explicitly --disable-static & --enable-shared to be able to build incrementally on OSX?
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# [20:33] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/430e25acf004 - Steve Fink - Bug 769192 - Typed array accessors should not use JSPROP_READONLY. r=Waldo
# [20:33] <khuey> disable-static and enable-shared don't do anything to firefox
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# [20:34] <gfritzsche> khuey, ok, i guess i looked at an outdated config
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# [20:34] <gfritzsche> how would i trigger an update to the app bundle on OSX then?
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# [20:35] <gfritzsche> on windows e.g. "pymake -sC dom" + "pymake -sC toolkit/library" is sufficient, on osx apparently not
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# [20:36] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/a1d3f276e0ac - Chris Jones - Bug 773998: Shut down app processes when the last browser closes. r=jlebar
# [20:36] <kaie> I need to make a decision whether I should go to MozCamp Warsaw. If I knew there were an opportunity to meet people interested to help with security coding, then I'd go.
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# [20:38] <kaie> from the description of mozcamp it doesn't sound like an event targetted to core programmers
# [20:38] <BenWa> edmorley: thanks for the tip
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# [20:39] <jdm> kaie: we could propose a matchmaking event - have people who have coding tasks that need volunteers show up and pitch their project, and invite anybody who knows how to code to come and see if anything looks interesting
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# [20:42] <mbrubeck> kaie: It sounds like pushing MoCo to commit to hiring someone(s) would be a better fit for your needs... Maybe josh would know how to get that process started?
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# [20:45] <espindola> ehsan, thanks
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# [20:45] <@ehsan> espindola: what's the status btw? do you just have to land the patch to switch the builds?
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# [20:46] <espindola> ehsan, releng has to enable tooltool for m-i and m-c
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# [20:46] <espindola> and I am copying a new packages to try to get a version that works for asan too
# [20:46] <@ehsan> espindola: ah, I didn't know that tooltool needs to be enabled per branch...
# [20:46] <espindola> ehsan, news for me too
# [20:46] <@ehsan> espindola: shouldn't that be done for all branches which sync up with m-c though?
# [20:47] <espindola> rail found it yesterday
# [20:47] <espindola> ehsan, not sure
# [20:47] <espindola> rail, ^
# [20:47] <rail> we are super duper carefull about that :)
# [20:48] <@ehsan> ok cool
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# [20:49] <fox2mike> ted: ping
# [20:49] <@ted> fox2mike: pong
# [20:50] <fox2mike> ted: hey, can you take a look at https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=770811 please? :)
# [20:50] <vlad> do we have any notification system where I can progrmatically ask for 'what is the latest tinderbox build for win32 off mozilla-central' or somesuch?
# [20:50] <vlad> or do I have to parse the html from http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/tinderbox-builds/mozilla-central-win32 ?
# [20:51] <@ted> vlad: jgriffin had such a thing
# [20:51] <@ted> but i suspect it doesn't have a host at the moment
# [20:51] <vlad> jgriffin: do you still have such a thing?
# [20:51] * froydnj chases down leaks
# [20:51] <vlad> ah, alas
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# [20:51] <vlad> because that would be really handy for me right now
# [20:51] <@ted> it used pulse to listen to the buildbot notifications
# [20:51] <@ted> yeah
# [20:51] <@ted> srsly
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# [20:51] <vlad> man
# [20:51] * ctalbert|afk is now known as ctalbert
# [20:51] <jgriffin> vlad: I don't have that right now :(
# [20:51] <vlad> so I can now do one of two things -- try to set up the thing and use it
# [20:51] <vlad> or just hack the html parsing
# [20:51] * sheppy is now known as sheppy-afk
# [20:52] <@ted> vlad: i think there's a python script somewhere that will do the scraping as well
# [20:52] <vlad> I bet you can anticipate my next question
# [20:52] <@ted> i'd find that, but our handy toolbox directory doesn't have a host either
# [20:52] <vlad> alas :)
# [20:52] <@ted> my kingdom for tools hosting
# [20:52] <@ted> jhammel: don't suppose you remember
# [20:52] <vlad> create a github repo
# [20:52] <vlad> :)
# [20:52] <jgriffin> vlad: the script that uses pulse to build a list of recent builds is latestbuilds.py in http://hg.mozilla.org/automation/pulsebuildmonitor
# [20:52] <@ted> didn't someone have a getlatesttinderbox script?
# [20:52] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/2e8d41e9f8ef - Luke Wagner - Bug 772688 - remove CallObject property ops and sea witch (r=bhackett)
# [20:52] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/0be7b0709e5d - Luke Wagner - Bug 772688 - add BindingIter and use it instead of directly touching a Binding's shape (r=waldo)
# [20:53] <@ted> http://hg.mozilla.org/automation/getlatest-tinderbox/
# [20:53] <@ted> oh
# [20:53] <@ted> there it is
# [20:53] <vlad> is pulse still live?
# [20:53] <jcranmer> my try build is failing in
# [20:53] <jcranmer> cd ./dist/crashreporter-symbols && \
# [20:53] <jcranmer> grep "sym" firefox-17.0a1-Linux-20120717105023-x86-symbols.txt > firefox-17.0a1-Linux-20120717105023-x86-symbols.txt.tmp && \
# [20:53] * juanb is now known as juanb|lunch
# [20:53] <jcranmer> mv firefox-17.0a1-Linux-20120717105023-x86-symbols.txt.tmp firefox-17.0a1-Linux-20120717105023-x86-symbols.txt
# [20:53] <jgriffin> vlad: yep, pulse still ives
# [20:53] <jcranmer> now why would that be happening?
# [20:53] <@ted> jcranmer: no symbols got produced?
# [20:53] <vlad> ted, jriffin: cool, thanks! I should be able to cobble something together here :)
# [20:53] <@ted> fox2mike: um, looking
# [20:54] <@ted> fox2mike: sorry, been so busy the past 2 weeks after vacation hadn't had a chance
# [20:54] * armenzg is now known as armenzg_brb
# [20:54] <jhammel> ted: there is also mozdownload https://github.com/mozilla/mozdownload
# [20:54] <jhammel> not sure what does what these days
# [20:54] <fox2mike> ted: np :)
# [20:54] <@ted> of course this has been written a zillion times over
# [20:54] <fox2mike> ted: would be nice if you could chime in with some comments :D
# [20:54] * adrian|dinner is now known as adrian
# [20:54] <sfink> lsblakk: ping
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# [20:55] <jcranmer> ted: that much is obvious, but why wouldn't I be getting symbols?
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# [20:55] <lsblakk> sfink: pong
# [20:56] <sfink> lsblakk: can you help me understand the current state of bug 647405? We need these builds on try soonish
# [20:56] * lsblakk looks
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# [20:57] <@ted> jcranmer: that i don't know
# [20:57] <vlad> ted: one more question.. do android builds not show up in tinderbox-builds?
# [20:57] <vlad> oh they show up in mobile/tinderbox-builds
# [20:57] <gfritzsche> ah, "make -C browser" triggers the mac app bundle updates
# [20:57] * jcranmer looks at espindola
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# [20:58] <espindola> jcranmer, yes?
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# [20:58] <jcranmer> espindola: this is a clang build; have you seen any problems like that before on try builds?
# [20:58] <espindola> jcranmer, context
# [20:58] <espindola> like what ?
# [20:59] <jcranmer> the build is dying in make buildsymbols
# [20:59] <jcranmer> https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Try&rev=1b4f423f182e
# [20:59] <espindola> jcranmer, ages ago, breakpad had problems with the debug info created by clang
# [20:59] <jcranmer> [OS X is dying for different reasons]
# [21:00] * bmoss|2 is now known as bmoss
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# [21:00] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/a5b74af104b8 - Brian Nicholson - Bug 773774 - Don't clone document for reader mode check. r=mfinkle
# [21:01] <jcranmer> /builds/slave/try-lnx/build/obj-firefox/dist/host/bin/dump_syms: /tools/gcc-4.3.3/installed/lib/libstdc++.so.6: version `GLIBCXX_3.4.14' not found (required by /builds/slave/try-lnx/build/obj-firefox/dist/host/bin/dump_syms)
# [21:01] <jcranmer> that might be an issue?
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# [21:02] <khuey> so, uh
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# [21:02] <khuey> why is try double building everything?
# [21:02] * davehunt|away is now known as davehunt
# [21:02] <sfink> measure twice, cut once
# [21:03] <NeilAway> bz: thanks for being proactive about the string fix
# [21:03] <edmorley> or more ask for measurements twice, takes too long to get results, break tree once anyway
# [21:03] <sfink> it's been happening for the last hour. Must be jorendorff's fault :)
# [21:04] <edmorley> sfink, khuey: I'll file something
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# [21:04] <@smaug> overholt: you do realize that it is 10pm here in Finland? ;) But I'll try to look at that patch after sauna
# [21:04] <jorendorff> I always build everything twice
# [21:04] <jduell> biesi: ping
# [21:04] <biesi> jduell, pongh
# [21:05] <jduell> biesi: so we're trying to get the docShell for a necko channel. Sometimes it's the callbacks--that's easy
# [21:05] <@bz> NeilAway: no problem
# [21:05] <@bz> NeilAway: you were totally right, so... ;)
# [21:05] <biesi> jduell, you want nsILoadContext, I think
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# [21:05] <jduell> biesi: how do I get that?
# [21:06] <biesi> jduell, getInterface from the notificationCallbacks
# [21:06] <biesi> hm...
# [21:06] <biesi> bz, ^ do you agree?
# [21:06] <overholt> smaug: :) yeah, sorry, bad timing with deadlines and PTO and such
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# [21:06] <@ted> fox2mike: i dug out the sql queries, they're in the bug
# [21:06] <overholt> smaug: we appreciate your help
# [21:06] <@ted> might want to copy the db and run an analyze on them or something
# [21:06] <@ted> or get an actual DBA involved, if they know anything about sqlite
# [21:06] <jduell> biesi: so the case here is that we need to know whether the load is part of a trusted web app (which will get their own cookie namespaces)
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# [21:07] <jduell> biesi: right now that info is in the docshell, so ideally I need to get to that, not just any nsILoadContext?
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# [21:07] <edmorley> sfink, khuey: filed bug 774799
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# [21:08] <biesi> jduell, well nsILoadContext is the way to get to the related stuff, afaik
# [21:08] <biesi> but ask bz, he added it
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# [21:08] <biesi> jduell, it's either that, or getInterface the docshell from the callbacks
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# [21:09] <jduell> biesi: bz: are we guaranteed that necko channels (loading content) have a nsILoadContext?
# [21:10] <jduell> the other idea that's been floated is to ask the loadGroup (and encompassing loadGroups) for their callbacks until we hit a docShell
# [21:10] <espindola> jcranmer, you are compiling /builds/slave/try-lnx/build/obj-firefox/dist/host/bin/dump_syms with the 4.5 headers
# [21:10] <espindola> and using it with the system libstdc++
# [21:10] <biesi> jduell, er, one note: whenever you ask the channel's notification callbacks, you _must_ also ask the loadgroup's notification callbacks
# [21:11] <espindola> (try finally loaded)
# [21:11] <biesi> jduell, hence helpers like NS_QueryNotificationCallbacks(nsIChannel*)
# [21:11] <biesi> jduell, but for loadcontext questions, I'll let bz answer
# [21:11] <rail> espindola, ehsan: I'm going to enable tooltool on m-c in a bit, fyi
# [21:11] <espindola> rail, awesome
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# [21:11] <jduell> biesi: right. We don't generally go up the loadGroup hierarchy though, so that was my other question
# [21:11] <jcranmer> espindola: hmm, I just pushed a build that used gcc/g++ for HOST_CC/HOST_CXX
# [21:12] <espindola> ehsan, rail, my idea is to enable on m-i
# [21:12] <espindola> and let the regular merge bring it to m-c
# [21:12] <espindola> sounds reasonable?
# [21:12] <biesi> jduell, how would you even do that? but that doesn't sound right
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# [21:13] <benjamin> what's the ns string I'm supposed to use if I just want to wrap a const char *
# [21:13] <jduell> biesi: well, I'd ask the loadGroup for its loadGroup, and GetInterface it's callbacks. Repeating until we hit outermost loadGroup
# [21:13] <benjamin> I don't want it to try to deallocate it
# [21:13] <rail> espindola: does this mean that we need it on both, m-i and m-c?
# [21:13] <fox2mike> ted: <3
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# [21:13] <fox2mike> ted: any reason we go with sqlite?
# [21:13] <fox2mike> or went rather
# [21:13] <@ted> fox2mike: cause it's simple
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# [21:13] <fox2mike> ted: alright :)
# [21:14] <espindola> rail, yes
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# [21:14] <@ted> fox2mike: if we've outgrown it and need to move to a big-kid database, that's fine
# [21:14] <@ted> but it may just be that we have stupid indexes or something
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# [21:14] <fox2mike> ted: yeah, that's why the DBA's have been cc'ed
# [21:14] <fox2mike> err DBAs*
# [21:14] <@ted> in my defense, i moved it to a sqlite db from a flat text file
# [21:15] <fox2mike> hehe
# [21:15] <fox2mike> sometimes I just want to burn pushlog
# [21:15] <@ted> sure wish this stuff was just built into the vcs
# [21:15] <fox2mike> heh
# [21:15] <jduell> biesi: hmm, seems nsDocShell.cpp is the only implementor of nsILoadContext, so doesn't seem to make too much difference than looking for nsILoadGroup (but I agree nsILoadContext is the more logical place to put the info)
# [21:15] <@ted> the db itself is not super complicated
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# [21:15] <cjones> what are the tree rules for Qt builds?
# [21:16] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/c4f26b2a26c4 - Geoff Brown - Bug 770456 - Robocop: wait for view in testHistoryTab; r=wesj
# [21:16] <Ms2ger> cjones, "Ha. Ha. Ha."
# [21:16] <cjones> i have a patch that breaks because of #define signals insanity
# [21:16] <jduell> doesn't help with *finding* the docShell tho :(
# [21:16] <cjones> but i don't see build instructions for Qt anywhere
# [21:16] <@ted> we should probably just turn those off lolol
# [21:16] <cjones> the Qt maintainer has been warned of the impending bustage
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# [21:17] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/c033e6c7c407 - Chris Peterson - Bug 768106 - Ignore empty composing events when we have no composition string to replace. r=blassey
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# [21:18] <armenzg> jimm: MaRu from IT is trying to rebuild the win64 machines with Group Policy Object and he is having trouble with the 7.0 SDK; he asked me "the Windows SDK that gets installed (currently version 7) also installs .net framework 3.5 but it doesn't allow for a silent or quiet install. Would we be safe to install version 7.1 that installs .net framwork 4.0 instead?"
# [21:18] <armenzg> is this something you would know?
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# [21:18] <@bsmedberg> armenzg: SDK version 7.1?
# [21:19] <jimm> armenzg: I use the 7.1 sdk locally with no problems.
# [21:19] <fox2mike> ted: thanks
# [21:19] <@bsmedberg> yeah, the 7.1 SDK *should* be fine
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# [21:19] <@bsmedberg> I wouldn't immediately ship a release without testing, of course ;-)
# [21:19] <espindola> somewhat off topic, do we still support the qt builds?
# [21:19] <@ted> fox2mike: np, hope there's an easy fix
# [21:19] <@bsmedberg> espindola: what means 'support'?
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# [21:19] <@ted> we should probably punt them back to tier 2 or something
# [21:19] <espindola> we will need to upgrade the qt we have if we ever start builds on linux
# [21:20] <espindola> bsmedberg, as in, would we care enough to do asan builds with them
# [21:20] <@bsmedberg> no
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# [21:20] <@bsmedberg> no definitely not
# [21:20] <@ted> AFAIK they're only there because our Meego builds were using Qt
# [21:20] <@ted> so we wanted to avoid breaking that
# [21:21] <espindola> ok, will just leave them one the side
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# [21:22] <evilpie> somebody knows the reference http://mozillamemes.tumblr.com/post/27150521122/i-dare-you-i-double-dog-dare-you ?
# [21:22] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-beta/rev/5d9ee46bdec5 - Matt Brubeck - Bug 774789 - Add quotes around MOZ_APP_DISPLAYNAME to fix build errors on beta [r=ted, a=lsblakk]
# [21:22] * jlebar|lunch is now known as jlebar
# [21:23] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-beta/rev/c33b0b610df3 - Matt Brubeck - Bug 774789 - Add quotes around MOZ_APP_DISPLAYNAME to fix build errors on beta [r=ted, a=lsblakk]
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# [21:24] <Wes--> ted: any idea if there are plans to build for phones produced by that new meego startup?
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# [21:24] <@ted> i haven't got the slightest clue
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# [21:25] <lsblakk> sfink: so it should be easy to turn on a spidermonkey_try project and have that report to try
# [21:25] <lsblakk> sfink: however, that means all pushes to try will use those resources on every push
# [21:25] <jesup|laptop> Has Aurora been updated for the uplift yet? If not, which repo should I base a patch intended for Aurora on (m-c?) Or is there a trick other than hg pull -u? (Can't remember...)
# [21:25] <Wes--> evilpie:origins are north american colloquial english spoken by school children at least 25 years ago
# [21:25] <lsblakk> sfink: and that's something for releng to determine the pros/cons of
# [21:26] * Quits: naveed-lt (Naveed@moz-409D20C6.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Input/output error)
# [21:26] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/7652bd4c0b52 - Matt Brubeck - Bug 774789 - Add quotes around MOZ_APP_DISPLAYNAME to fix build errors on beta [r=ted]
# [21:26] <sfink> lsblakk: currently, we have it set up to only run on Linux64 builds, and it somehow inherits the "only run if it touched js/src" thing that I don't understand
# [21:26] <evilpie> Wes--: i assumed this person (who is he?) was asked something about Chrome in an interview
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# [21:26] <sfink> lsblakk: sorry, "it" = "the one spidermonkey build (rooting analysis) that we actually care about here"
# [21:26] <@ehsan> espindola: I'd rather we land on both central and inbound at the same time
# [21:26] <evilpie> oh this is quickmeme not some screencap
# [21:26] <@ted> evilpie: that's john lilly
# [21:27] * ehsan is now known as ehsan-meeting
# [21:27] <@ted> former moco CEO
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# [21:27] <@ted> i think someone just thought his expression was funny
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# [21:27] <@ted> and the text is probably a reference to "Pulp Fiction"
# [21:28] <espindola> ehsan-meeting, ok, so 774671 has to land on m-c too
# [21:28] <espindola> do you know when the next merge is happening?
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# [21:29] <@ehsan-meeting> espindola: probably some time tomorrow...
# [21:29] <espindola> :-(
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# [21:29] <espindola> Is it ok to cherry pick it to m-C?
# [21:30] <zzzzz_> ryanvm might do a merge later this evening - he has been some lately, but seeing as he's not here can't really speak for him
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# [21:34] <mbrubeck> espindola: Yes, you can cherry-pick it to m-c if you want.
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# [21:34] <edmorley> espindola: I can do it now if you want?
# [21:35] * froydnj sees his refcounting log at 203 MB without symbol names for most of the stack unwinding entries =/
# [21:35] <edmorley> espindola: someone else will have to finish up watching m-c since I should probably leave the opffice at some point
# [21:35] <Ms2ger> edmorley, no need, there's a cot
# [21:36] <edmorley> Ms2ger: there isn't actually, thought there are huge bean bags
# [21:36] <Ms2ger> Must fix that
# [21:36] <edmorley> espindola: which csets did you need?
# [21:37] <froydnj> guess that strange person depositing cots at the London office will be Ms2ger, then
# [21:37] <Ms2ger> Oh, damn
# [21:38] * Ms2ger erases all traces of the deposit
# [21:38] <espindola> edmorley, I will be watching it for clang anyway
# [21:39] <edmorley> Ms2ger: international man of mystery tip of the day: don't reveal your meticulously hatched plans on #developers
# [21:39] <edmorley> espindola: ok :-)
# [21:39] <edmorley> espindola: and csets needed?
# [21:39] <espindola> edmorley, a430390ef8cd
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# [21:40] <edmorley> espindola: unfortunately that is nowhere near pgo green yet, so I can't merge it
# [21:40] <edmorley> espindola: just double land perhaps
# [21:41] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-beta/rev/5c2bf26dcc71 - ffxbld - Added FENNEC_15_0b1_RELEASE FENNEC_15_0b1_BUILD2 tag(s) for changeset 5d9ee46bdec5. DONTBUILD CLOSED TREE a=release
# [21:41] <espindola> how often do we do a pgo build?
# [21:42] <Ms2ger> 3h
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# [21:42] <espindola> last one was 8:52 pdt
# [21:42] <espindola> so 12:52 pdt
# [21:43] <espindola> another 30 minutes
# [21:43] <espindola> edmorley, I can wait for that, but if you need to go I can just land that one change to m-c
# [21:44] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-beta/rev/30c2a881b7d6 - Chris Jones - Bug 773830: Check GetEnabled() before OOPInit(). r=ted a=lsblakk for the set (bug 771251 + followups)
# [21:44] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-beta/rev/6c4e68bab0c3 - Benjamin Smedberg - Bug 773665 - Don't crash during shutdown because XPCOM is already mostly-dead and refuses to create a local file, r=ted
# [21:44] <espindola> wait, 1 h too much, shouldn't another pgo be going on right now? :-)
# [21:44] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-beta/rev/0cdc0b40d6d9 - Benjamin Smedberg - Bug 771251 - OOP crash reporting accesses the directory service off the main thread. In addition, the first design of the crash injector callback meant that we're dropping
# [21:44] <firebot> some set of Flash crashes which happen during an RPC call. r=ted
# [21:44] <espindola> ah, it is :-)
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# [21:46] <jcranmer> sigh
# [21:46] <jcranmer> you know what's annoying?
# [21:47] <jcranmer> having a HOST_CC of gcc and a regular CC of clang
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# [21:47] <gfritzsche> anyone have an idea what to check for if PR_LOG for a module only works in one translation unit?
# [21:47] <gfritzsche> ... on osx if that matters
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# [21:48] <jcranmer> our build system happily decides to use the CFLAGS of clang (which include -Qunused-arguments) in the HOST_CFLAGS
# [21:48] <edmorley> espindola: the pgo runs take 4 hours to copmplete at low load, longer at the moment, so you'll be waiting until tomorrow reallky
# [21:48] <edmorley> espindola: winxp also already has a 7 hour backlog (I've just filed bug 774823)
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# [21:50] <jcranmer> it's a miracle our build system works in the first place
# [21:52] <Ms2ger> ^
# [21:52] * jcranmer goes and does something easy, like read code coverage data from the files directly
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# [21:54] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/f805b2c3b3b4 - Jonathan Watt - Bug 773450 - Lines don't show up in some Google Maps directions. r=roc.
# [21:56] <espindola> !
# [21:57] <espindola> edmorley, ok, thanks, I didn't realize the win pgo builds were that slow
# [21:57] <espindola> I will cherry pick as soon as try with the clang package is done
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# [21:59] <edmorley> espindola: they'd be much better if we switched to pymake on the builders
# [21:59] <edmorley> one day...
# [22:00] <espindola> edmorley, and to clang :-)
# [22:00] <espindola> but what is blocking pymake?
# [22:00] <gps> l10n compat
# [22:00] <gps> bug 593585
# [22:01] <gps> there are a few others. l10n is the big one
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# [22:03] * edmorley imagines a world full of pymake on tinderbox, nss that builds with -j values higher than 1, tup & ponies...
# [22:03] <edmorley> one can hope
# [22:03] <@bsmedberg> edmorley: why don't we start with pymake?
# [22:03] * jhammel would prefer to start with ponies
# [22:03] <@bsmedberg> we can have tup later, and NSS never ;-)
# [22:03] <edmorley> heh :-)
# [22:03] <gps> bsmedberg: we should make pymake work on Windows
# [22:04] <gps> that is the highest priority for joey, I think
# [22:04] <gps> or one of them
# [22:04] <gps> my stuff is in parallel
# [22:04] <@bsmedberg> I have a one-higher priority, but yes.
# [22:04] <edmorley> s/is/should be, and may or may not be at present/
# [22:04] <jcranmer> bsmedberg: oh?
# [22:04] <cjones> does anyone remember what jemalloc's min byte alignment is? 8 bytes?
# [22:04] <edmorley> in regards to priority that is
# [22:05] <@bsmedberg> cjones: I believe it has a 4-byte sizeclass that is just 4-byte aligned
# [22:05] * @bsmedberg isn't sure about that though
# [22:05] <cjones> but > 4 it's 8-byte aligned?
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# [22:05] <@bsmedberg> yes
# [22:05] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/0842d651cfa8 - Mats Palmgren - Bug 774548. r=roc
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# [22:05] <cjones> thanks
# [22:05] <jorendorff> i think that's effectively standard anyway
# [22:06] <jorendorff> spec says malloc returns memory aligned good enough for anything that could fit in that much memory
# [22:07] <@bsmedberg> jorendorff: and that's technically 16, but nobody actually does that
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# [22:07] <froydnj> pretty sure x86oid linux does
# [22:07] <jorendorff> good point
# [22:07] <@bsmedberg> so instead we have things like posix_memalign to get that super-aligned behavior if you need it
# [22:07] <Wes--> solaris says it returns a block which is " suitably aligned for any use."
# [22:07] <@bsmedberg> it's really only necessary for some SIMD stuff, IIRC
# [22:08] <jcranmer> jorendorff: actually, IIRC, the spec requires maximum alignment of any type, not that anyone actually follows it
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# [22:08] <derf> jcranmer: For any basic type.
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# [22:09] <derf> C has no basic type for SIMD vectors.
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# [22:09] <jcranmer> derf: that implies that malloc(1) ought to be 8-byte aligned on some platforms
# [22:09] <derf> jcranmer: Yes.
# [22:09] <derf> Though on Intel it'd work just fine with 1-byte alignment.
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# [22:10] <derf> Since the only thing that fails are certain asm instructions. There's no C construct that would fail.
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# [22:10] <jcranmer> it doesn't matter though since not all malloc implementations actually follow those rules
# [22:10] <derf> Well, jemalloc certainly doesn't.
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# [22:10] <derf> glibc always has 8-byte alignment, at least on x86.
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# [22:11] <derf> Though I believe jemalloc only uses smaller alignments when allocating smaller sizes.
# [22:11] <derf> (i.e., you don't get 2 byte alignment unless you're allocating a 2-byte block)
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# [22:25] <taras> bz: ping
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# [22:27] <@bz> taras: ack
# [22:27] <edmorley> 3600 jobs pending \o/
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# [22:29] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/fb153a7c666c - Chris Peterson - Bug 709230 - Part 4: Remove unused imports. r=blassey
# [22:30] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/844444ca8feb - Chris Peterson - Bug 709230 - Part 3: Mark classes final and reduce class visibility public->package->private to aid ProGuard optimizations. r=blassey
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# [22:30] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/554503c436a3 - Chris Peterson - Bug 709230 - Part 2: Add missing access modifiers for Java methods accessed from JNI. r=blassey
# [22:30] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/b1ed016041d1 - Chris Peterson - Bug 709230 - Part 1: Add Android JNI error logging. r=blassey
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# [22:32] <NeilAway> gfritzsche: browser/app should suffice, I think
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# [22:32] <espindola> jcranmer, on the build you had the runtime linking problem
# [22:32] <espindola> were you using ac_add_options --enable-stdcxx-compat
# [22:32] <espindola> ?
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# [22:32] <jcranmer> espindola: looks like it
# [22:33] <gfritzsche> NeilAway, ah, thanks
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# [22:34] <taras> bz: i've been seeing a lot of weird ui-responsiveness bugs
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# [22:34] <taras> where ui is partially responsive
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# [22:34] <taras> could that be due to nested event loops + event filtering?
# [22:34] <NeilAway> bz: it's a shame the compiler can't figure out that we don't normally need to run destructors on dependent strings
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# [22:38] * NeilAway wonders whether we can do a similar trick on literal strings
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# [22:40] <@bz> taras: in theory, yes...
# [22:40] <@bz> taras: but there are very few places where we do event filtering
# [22:40] <@bz> taras: I thought
# [22:40] <@bz> NeilAway: yeah
# [22:40] <@bz> NeilAway: well, and sometimes we do
# [22:40] <@bz> NeilAway: it depends on what the callee does with the string
# [22:40] <@bz> NeilAway: which is nuts
# [22:40] <taras> bz: where can i look that up?
# [22:41] <taras> sync does some crazy nested event looping
# [22:41] <@bz> taras: mmm. Look in XMLHttpRequest to see what it does in the sync case?
# [22:41] <taras> which seems to correlate with jank
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# [22:41] <@bz> taras: just doing a nested event loop shouldn't involve filtering
# [22:42] <taras> ok
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# [22:45] <benjamin> what's the difference between gre;// and chrome://?
# [22:46] <NeilAway> gre isn't a protocol
# [22:46] <NeilAway> did you mean resource://gre/ ?
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# [22:48] <@bz> which ... confused me a tad
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# [22:51] <momo> what Programming language do we need to use to get access to mozilla's developement world?
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# [22:52] <Callek> momo: depends what part of the development world you care about
# [22:52] <Callek> momo: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Getting_Started
# [22:52] <momo> we would like to develop a add-on for mozilla firefox
# [22:52] <Callek> bah that page moved
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# [22:54] <Callek> momo: start here: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/addons
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# [23:01] <@dveditz> momo: addons can typically be written entirely in javascript (for Jetpack addons) or JS + XUL.
# [23:01] <momo> what about ruby, opa, python ?
# [23:01] <@dveditz> nope
# [23:02] <@dveditz> there was an effort to create a python binding quite a long time ago, but it never made it as part of the standard Firefox
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# [23:03] <@bz> actually, we were shipping the python bindings for a while
# [23:03] <@bz> as long as you had a python interpreter, you could write addons in python
# [23:03] <@bz> no one actually did
# [23:03] <@bz> (note that we did NOT ship the python interpreter, so python addons would only work if you had one around)
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# [23:05] <Callek> bz: Komodo still ships working with python addons, just not a pyDOM anymore iirc
# [23:05] <Callek> but yea, not us
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# [23:05] <jcranmer> gah, how does the gcov stuff even work in the first place‽
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# [23:07] <momo> ok, why not opa?
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# [23:11] <espindola> rail, cool , is m-i fixed too?
# [23:11] <rail> espindola: yup
# [23:12] <espindola> awesome
# [23:12] <espindola> linux 32 bit is really slow on try
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# [23:12] <espindola> but I should push the new version any time soon and backport the bits I need from m-i
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# [23:13] <taras> smaug: can also delay css restyles for background tabs?
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# [23:14] <jcranmer> espindola: it's still there even though I deleted the stdcxxcompat
# [23:15] <@smaug> taras: not sure what you mean
# [23:15] <espindola> jcranmer, I was expecting stdcxxcompat to fix it ...
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# [23:16] <taras> smaug: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=718864#c12
# [23:16] <espindola> stdcxxcompat is a .o with symbols that were in newer libstdc++ are provided in the .so itself
# [23:16] <espindola> but were weak in older versions
# [23:16] <taras> smaug: to deal with stupid css causing redundant restyles
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# [23:17] <jcranmer> espindola: https://hg.mozilla.org/try/rev/35608f8adf1e
# [23:17] <jcranmer> (my current set of config options/changes)
# [23:17] <espindola> let see what the link like looks like...
# [23:17] <taras> smaug: bringing it up since i saw you file 734015
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# [23:18] <espindola> jcranmer, do you have a link to the log
# [23:19] <@smaug> taras: not sure about that
# [23:19] <espindola> try is being *really* slow to load this one
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# [23:19] <@smaug> taras: I would assume usually some script runs which expects styling to be correct
# [23:20] <taras> i see how that gets complicated quick ;(
# [23:22] <jcranmer> espindola: https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getParsedLog.php?id=13612553&tree=Try&full=1
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# [23:25] <joe> hahahahaha
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# [23:25] <joe> firebot once thought it was dolske https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=773915
# [23:25] <firebot> joe: Sorry, I've no idea what 'once thought it was dolske https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=773915' might be.
# [23:25] <@gavin> identity crisis
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# [23:26] <sheppy> That's better than dolske thinking he's firebot.
# [23:26] <@dolske> :(
# [23:27] <espindola> jcranmer, http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1706682
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# [23:27] <espindola> jcranmer, two interesting things
# [23:27] <espindola> * you are linking with g++
# [23:27] <espindola> * libhost_stdc++compat.a is missing
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# [23:28] <jcranmer> I changed the HOST_CXX/HOST_CC to get it to work
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# [23:28] <jcranmer> hmm, that gives me a thought
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# [23:29] <espindola> jcranmer, yes?
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# [23:29] <jcranmer> one of the patches in my queue freezes HOST_CXXFLAGS and HOST_CCFLAGS
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# [23:29] <jcranmer> that may be breaking things
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# [23:30] <jcranmer> good lord, our build system is crap :-(
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# [23:31] <biesi> jcranmer|away, ORLY?
# [23:32] <sheppy> jcranmer: you only just noticed?
# [23:33] <jesup|laptop> (repeat from a while ago, may have missed reponses): Has Aurora been updated for the uplift yet? If not, which repo should I base a patch intended for Aurora on (m-c?) Or is there a trick other than hg pull -u? (Can't remember...)
# [23:33] <kaie> how can I translate http://click.e.mozilla.org/?qs={long hex number} to the real number without revealing that I clicked it to mozilla marketing?
# [23:33] <kaie> to the real link
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# [23:34] <kaie> I think it's inappropriate that mozilla tries to track what I do
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# [23:34] <mbrubeck> It also causes Thunderbird to flag some Mozilla marketing emails as scams. :/
# [23:35] <khuey> mbrubeck: that's 772530
# [23:35] <khuey> not the link
# [23:35] <sheppy> Woohoo
# [23:35] <mbrubeck> huh
# [23:36] <sheppy> Mozilla spam tastes like fresh steak instead of generic spiced pork bits.
# [23:36] <kaie> I had also filed 772788
# [23:36] <mbrubeck> nice to know that SPF is working as designed. :P
# [23:37] <mconnor> kaie: I don't know if we're tracking what _you_ do vs. just counting uniques sanely. if you feel like there's tracking that goes against Mozilla principles, I think that's a question that's general to the privacy policy
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# [23:38] kaie: better not load images then either
# [23:38] <kaie> mconnor, well, all links in a single email start with the same hex prefix, but each link ends with a different suffix. that smells like you assigned something unique to that email
# [23:39] <mconnor> kaie: or it's per-communication
# [23:39] <mconnor> one link in mine is 07d0b83117e03d86242dd982b0702e670721617c6a54440e281058d12002aa1a7cd921cd3d9378b1
# [23:39] <mconnor> not sure if that's similar to yours or not
# [23:40] <gaston> funny how after working sometime on mozilla the awesomebar always yields bugzilla links when typing a number in it...
# [23:41] <sheppy> Heh
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# [23:41] <kaie> mconnor, if you're referring to "New security features, Running Gaia and more...", I don't have hex in my email. which link was that?
# [23:41] <kaie> that he
# [23:41] <kaie> that hex
# [23:42] <mconnor> that was one of them
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# [23:42] <mconnor> kaie: so, assume that the hex code is anonymized, and we're solely tracking unique users, is that still a problem?
# [23:43] <mconnor> I mean, I'm going to have a hard time saying "we shouldn't measure the effectiveness of our outbound communications" on general principle, but I also underestand the desire to not be directly tracked
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# [23:43] <kaie> well, you will notice that I never click those links
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# [23:43] <kaie> if you want me to click them, send real urls
# [23:43] nobody will notice that
# [23:44] <kaie> mark thunderbird notices it and reports it as scam
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# [23:44] <@smaug> ++ttaubert
# [23:45] <WeirdAl> :( FF16 for devs doc'n is awfully sparse considering it's about to go to Aurora
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# [23:45] * biesi notes he did notice it and was slightly bothered
# [23:45] <biesi> maybe format the links such that the actual destination is also in the link
# [23:46] <mconnor> kaie: no, that's https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=772530
# [23:46] kaie: but that's a different problem, either in thunderbird or the particular way it's done, not whether to do it at all
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# [23:46] <kaie> as a matter of fact, mozilla should strive to protect the privacy of our users and of us mozillians. this is the beginning, even if you say it's not a big deal
# [23:46] <mconnor> I suspect it's the platform we're using there
# [23:47] <mconnor> kaie: that's pretty alarmist as a statement
# [23:47] <gaston> maybe click.e.mozilla.org?foo=bar&url=http///final.target.link ?
# [23:47] <kaie> someone has to be the alarmist :)
# [23:47] <jhammel> kaie++
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# [23:47] <gaston> that way paranoid people can copy/paste only the last part and are not tracked..
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# [23:48] <kaie> I still wouldn't like it, but it would work for me
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# [23:48] <mconnor> gaston: I think that's probably worthwhile, but I think the part I'm more concerned with here is not "can we optimize locally to work around certain paper cuts" but "is Mozilla's stance on privacy appropriately balanced?"
# [23:49] <mconnor> kaie wants a very black and white thing, but if we're not using at least some form of tracking we can't evolve our comms to be better, or even know if they're effective at all
# [23:50] <mconnor> and I want effective outbound comms a lot, in terms of ensuring our messaging is effective and reaching the intended recipients.
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# [23:50] <kaie> use the same link for everyone, and count how often stuff gets clicked, that ought to be sufficient
# [23:50] <espindola> gosh, linux 32 is still pending
# [23:50] <mconnor> kaie: you say that
# [23:50] <ttaubert> smaug: what did I do? :)
# [23:51] <mconnor> kaie: but there's a lot of nuance, like A/B testing of subject lines, wording, locales, etc
# [23:51] <@smaug> ttaubert: trying to fix bug 728294
# [23:51] <kaie> mconley, you said the clicks will be anonmyzed, so you're getting that
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# [23:51] <mconley> er
# [23:51] <gaston> http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/privacy-policy.html seems rather clear to me
# [23:51] <mconnor> kaie: honestly, I get it, but I think the right way to address concerns is by ensuring our privacy policy is the line we set across the board, rather than specific implementation details
# [23:51] <ttaubert> smaug: yeah, getting close
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# [23:52] <espindola> rail, the last linux 32 build job to schedule was 3h ago, no?
# [23:52] <espindola> on try
# [23:53] <kaie> I think I can't follow
# [23:53] <kaie> gaston, how would you summarize that policy as applied to this scenario?
# [23:53] <gaston> "These campaigns may be conducted with the help of a third-party customer relationship manager to help us manage the database of information and its analysis and use, in each case such third party's involvement with all the data collected will be solely on Mozilla's behalf. "
# [23:54] <rail> espindola: ooh, looks like we have a lot of pending jobs...
# [23:54] <gaston> and the next paragraph about "campaign id"
# [23:54] <kaie> mconnor, if you want me to be a happy contributor to this open project, then the privacy policy must forbid to track me, that's all I can say
# [23:54] <espindola> rail, yes, that is what I mean
# [23:55] <espindola> the last non pending is from Tue Jul 17 11:29:31 2012 PDT
# [23:55] <gaston> "In each case, Mozilla collects personally identifying information only insofar as is necessary to fulfill the purpose of the community member's interaction with Mozilla."
# [23:55] <rail> espindola: we had to turn off some vms tonight :/
# [23:55] <mconnor> I don't think this is personally identifying, or we're correlating to specific users
# [23:55] <espindola> rail, vm!?!?
# [23:55] <kaie> even the link to the privacy policy in that email is a tracking link!
# [23:56] kaie: why not contribute by letting someone know whether the email was helpful?
# [23:56] <espindola> I tough we were building on real hardware :-(
# [23:56] <rail> espindola: we have both
# [23:56] kaie: you're even contributing by having opted-in to the email and *not* opening those links
# [23:56] <mconnor> kaie: honestly, what you're saying is that you want the privacy poicy to forbid user tracking and analytics
# [23:57] <kaie> yes. I want that Mozilla makes software and communication that doesn't track our users.
# [23:57] <kaie> tracking is evil
# [23:57] * nthomas|away is now known as nthomas
# [23:57] <mconnor> I respectfully disagree with that statement.
# [23:57] <kaie> :)
# [23:57] <@gavin> "tracking is evil" is too generic to be a useful statement
# [23:58] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/9f7ea93fb10a - Rafael Ávila de Espíndola - Bug 774796 - upgrade clang to r160364. r=rail.
# [23:58] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/d608356c12bd - Rafael Ávila de Espíndola - Bug 774796 - upgrade clang to r160364. r=rail.
# [23:58] kaie: should have posted that bugzilla bug anonymously
# [23:58] <@gavin> not all forms of tracking are evil, and there are different tradeoffs involved depending on the kind of tracking
# [23:58] * Quits: zzzzz_ (chatzilla@moz-107FCDBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Ping timeout)
# [23:58] * bear-afk is now known as bear
# [23:58] * Joins: zzzzz_ (chatzilla@moz-107FCDBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
# [23:59] <mconnor> kaie: I force myself to be pragmatic. if we track anonymized users so we can measure the effectiveness of how we get our message out, I think that's valuable enough to the core mission to keep doing it. If we get better comms, and better engagement with community/users, and more success against the mission, I'll live with less than perfect privacy.
# [23:59] <kaie> mark, the difference is tracking what I do deliberately, such as contributing code to mozilla, and by attempting to track what I do on my own in private on my own computer, such as reading and surfing
# Session Close: Wed Jul 18 00:00:00 2012

The end :)