/irc-logs / mozilla / #developers / 2012-08-03 / end

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1. # Session Start: Fri Aug 03 00:00:00 2012
2. # Session Ident: #developers
3. # [00:00] <tbsaunde> voldemort: ah
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8. # [00:03] <bdahl> smaug: do you see any reason to dispatch that event if the document isn't a static clone?
9. # [00:03] <bdahl> e.g. is http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1732906 enough?
10. # [00:05] <@smaug> bdahl: does the method get calling in-non-print documentviewer?
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13. # [00:06] <jdm> firebot: uuid
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15. # [00:06] <bdahl> smaug: as far as i can tell it only get's called once by the printengine
16. # [00:07] <bdahl> i haven't tried print preview though
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18. # [00:08] <@smaug> bdahl: test also the case when you print from print preview
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20. # [00:08] <bdahl> smaug: is there anyway to enable print preview in osx?
21. # [00:08] <@smaug> I think not, but I haven't used OSX for years
22. # [00:09] <bdahl> bummer, it's a pain to have to recompile on linux or windows
23. # [00:09] <hub> compiling on Linux is easy
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25. # [00:09] <@smaug> compiling on linux is *easy*
26. # [00:09] <bdahl> compiling is easy, but if you already have something built it's easier to use that :)
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29. # [00:11] <@smaug> I think we should support print preview also on OSX
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33. # [00:11] <@smaug> but some people say we should just rely on whatever the OS provides there
34. # [00:11] <@smaug> (unfortunately OSX's print preview is, or at least was quite horrible)
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36. # [00:12] <bdahl> print preview on osx = print to pdf on osx
37. # [00:13] <@smaug> which is horrible
38. # [00:13] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/032ba64ab1f1 - Nicholas Cameron - Bug 773460. Pref on Azure/Cairo for Windows. r=roc
39. # [00:13] <@smaug> comparing to see the print preview in the browser
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42. # [00:15] <@smaug> bdahl: perhaps I asked this before, but would you be interested in to improve print preview UI ?
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44. # [00:16] <bdahl> there was talk of using a UI like pdf.js
45. # [00:16] <@smaug> I think pp should show up as a separate tab (which it internally actually is )
46. # [00:16] <@smaug> yeah, thank kind of UI could be ok
47. # [00:16] <bdahl> or even using pdf.js
48. # [00:17] <bdahl> chrome has a pretty nice print preview using their built in pdf reader
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52. # [00:19] <@roc> I have dreams about doing an even better UI where you can rotate pages and adjust margins interactively, but it's harder
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55. # [00:21] <bdahl> seems printing could use a lot of love
56. # [00:22] <@roc> yeah
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64. # [00:23] <@smaug> bdahl: well, better UI for pp shouldn't be hard
65. # [00:23] <@smaug> really
66. # [00:24] <@smaug> it is almost there
67. # [00:24] <@smaug> someone should just spend a day or two (I hope) to make it less ugly
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74. # [00:25] <bdahl> i'll keep it in mind, currently any spare time i have i'm trying to work on improving the actual rendering pdfs
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76. # [00:26] <bdahl> *rendering of
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78. # [00:26] <bdahl> maybe we need to find someone passionate about printing?
79. # [00:26] <@smaug> or perhaps we should find an intern to fix pp UI :)
80. # [00:27] <jhammel> i'm passionate about not printing ;)
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84. # [00:27] <bdahl> judging from how long the css2 @page margins bug has been open i don't think such a person exists
85. # [00:27] <@roc> Yeah, putting print preview in its own tab wouldn't be too hard
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87. # [00:28] <@smaug> pp *is* in its own tab. It is just carefully hidden that that is the case :)
88. # [00:28] <@bz> jhammel: printing is pretty important in many cases..
89. # [00:28] <@bz> jhammel: note that "printing" means "PDF generation"
90. # [00:29] <@bz> jhammel: except for boarding passses. ;)
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92. # [00:29] <mimcpher> bz: these days airlines will let me have a boarding pass on my laptop screen :P
93. # [00:29] <jhammel> bz: i know, i just live in a strange world where i avoid printing anything for the most part and don't generate pdfs when i can avoid it
94. # [00:29] <@smaug> or from mobile phone
95. # [00:29] <jhammel> mimcpher: or a phone :)
96. # [00:29] <jhammel> yeah
97. # [00:29] <@bz> mimcpher: ever tried to put a 17" laptop screen under one of those scanners? ;)
98. # [00:29] <@bz> jhammel: not on my phone. ;)
99. # [00:29] <voldemort> bz: mobile boarding passes ftw
100. # [00:30] <@bz> voldemort: smartphone-centric assumptions for the loss!
101. # [00:30] <voldemort> the only things I've wanted to print in the last 6 months were boarding passes and my tax returns
102. # [00:30] <@bz> jhammel: interesting. I save all sorts of stuff in PDF form for later reference
103. # [00:30] * @bz just saves tax returns in PDF now, no printing
104. # [00:30] <@smaug> bdahl: btw, thanks for the pdf.js. I don't actually hate pdf files anymore, since reading them doesn't suck anymore.
105. # [00:31] <jhammel> bdahl: yeah, seriously; its a life-saver
106. # [00:32] <bdahl> i'll pass on the thanks to the rest of the team. it seems people either love it or hate it
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109. # [00:33] <kaie> can we invent a self-contained file format that contains all elements of a web page required for rendering, is guaranteed to render fine with future browsers, in order to replace pdf?
110. # [00:33] <jhammel> bdahl: i'm guessing most people using linux love it
111. # [00:33] <@roc> kaie: sure: HTML
112. # [00:33] <jhammel> or most people that hate the adobe plugin as much as i
113. # [00:33] <kaie> roc, how can you embed an image in a html file?
114. # [00:33] <@roc> data: URLs
115. # [00:34] <bdahl> kaie: PDF itself at its core is a nice format, it just been ruined over the years by all the crap adobe added
116. # [00:34] <kaie> I mean, a file format that will render offline
117. # [00:34] <@bz> kaie: HTML renders dandy offline
118. # [00:34] <@smaug> HTML
119. # [00:34] <@roc> an HTML file with data: URLs will render offline
120. # [00:34] <kaie> oh I see
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123. # [00:34] <jhammel> is there a way in Fx to export a whole webpage as a single .html file?
124. # [00:34] <@bz> no
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126. # [00:35] <@bz> but mhtml exists
127. # [00:35] <@bz> and we could just implement it
128. # [00:35] <@bz> there's been a bug open for a decade or more
129. # [00:35] <@bz> on the other hand, that requires mhtml support in the reader
130. # [00:35] <jhammel> i mean....you could use data urls for images, in theory
131. # [00:35] <@roc> wouldn't it be better to just emit data: URLs?
132. # [00:35] <@bz> we _could_ try to change our "save as" code to use data:
133. # [00:35] <@bz> you have to be careful with subframes
134. # [00:36] <jhammel> you could suck in all js and styles to be inline
135. # [00:36] <@roc> sandbox!
136. # [00:36] <@bz> and maybe even images
137. # [00:36] <jhammel> that wouldn't totally do everything but i would be happy with something that did that
138. # [00:36] <@bz> roc: well, that might break the page, depending
139. # [00:36] <@roc> you need a special Save As mode that removes scripts
140. # [00:36] <@roc> the goal would be to generate a static document, not a working Web page
141. # [00:36] <@bz> you could sandbox stuff that came cross-origin
142. # [00:36] <@bz> yeah
143. # [00:36] <@bz> if you nix scripting, then it gets much simpler
144. # [00:36] <@roc> if you're trying to replace PDF, I assume that's what you'd do
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146. # [00:37] <@bz> roc: so my webkit data says we should annotate the stuff that can throw, not the infallible stuff....
147. # [00:37] <@bz> roc: and try to make most things not be able to throw. ;)
148. # [00:37] <@roc> bz: right. Make it so!
149. # [00:37] <dolske> wasn't limi pushing for a thing like that?
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151. # [00:38] <dolske> oh, that was a bit different. http://limi.net/articles/resource-packages/
152. # [00:39] <voldemort> good luck "saving" XHR responses :-P
153. # [00:39] <kaie> yes, I think a thing to replace PDF shouldn't try to do scripting. If you want things like a PDF form, you should use a real web page
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155. # [00:39] * @bz documents the current setup for the time being
156. # [00:40] <dolske> PDF isn't going to go anywhere until there's a more compelling format.
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159. # [00:41] <bdahl> i've considered proposing a subset format of PDF
160. # [00:41] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/157026a9b9c6 - Jared Wein - Bug 776606 - Require user portraits in the Social API to use http, https, or data schemes. r=gavin
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162. # [00:45] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-beta/rev/2f42cf45a752 - Julian Reschke - Bug 776399 - Fix IDL compat problem introduced by changes for bug 663057. r=bz, a=akeybl
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165. # [00:46] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/1924fe55fb6e - Felipe Gomes - Bug 771294. Use window id for webapp installation. r=gavin
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167. # [00:46] <kaie> dolske, probably true, but I think Mozilla should (a) either continue to have good printing support to produce PDF from web pages, or (b) provide an alternative
168. # [00:46] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/f41cd7125dbd - Bill McCloskey - Bug 743112 - Incremental deferred release (r=smaug,jonco)
169. # [00:47] <kaie> (I'm not having a problem right now, just saying)
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171. # [00:47] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/030feb4315fc - Blake Kaplan - Bug 779886 - wifiMangager.connectionInformation throws when we're not connected. r=bent DONTBUILD
172. # [00:47] <dolske> I hear fennec's save-as-PDF is fantastic
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180. # [00:53] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/1f47de086284 - John Schoenick - Bug 771666 - Update sandbox test to reflect expected plugin behavior. r=mattn
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184. # [00:56] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/ba3fa936e3f6 - Siddharth Agarwal - Bug 779701 - Marionette tests aren't properly packaged on Windows. Convert backslashes to forward slashes. r=jgriffin
185. # [00:56] <jduell> smaug: ping
186. # [00:56] <@smaug> jduell: pong
187. # [00:57] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
188. # [00:57] <jduell> smaug: hi. re: nits for bug 776174. So you're happy with calling it "LoadContext"?
189. # [00:57] <kaie> I want to say hi in the SF office tomorrow. bsmith will kindly welcome me :)
190. # [00:58] <@smaug> jduell: the one which has now *Parent ?
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192. # [00:58] <jduell> smaug: yeah.
193. # [00:59] <jduell> I wish I could come up with better name for "Loadcontext-like object used only by Parent"
194. # [00:59] <jduell> Just calling it LoadContext (with nsLoadContext in same dir) seems likely to confuse
195. # [01:00] <@smaug> hmm
196. # [01:00] <jduell> smaug: but I guess I can live with it if you're ok with it. I thought of "LoadContextStub"
197. # [01:00] <jduell> but that's not great either
198. # [01:00] <@smaug> there is nsLoadContext too?
199. # [01:00] <jduell> smaug: oh, right, no, it's nsDocShell.cpp
200. # [01:00] <jduell> that's true
201. # [01:00] <@smaug> no nsLoadContext based on mxr search
202. # [01:01] <@smaug> LoadContext in mozilla namespace should be ok, at least for now
203. # [01:01] <jduell> smaug: ok. Thanks
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231. # [01:16] <sheppy> smaug: OK, I can confirm your username actually exists on developer-new… looking into this further.
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238. # [01:20] <RyanVM> roc: I don't suppose that some of those MediaStream bugs you filed today will help with the randomorange bugs, will they?
239. # [01:21] <@roc> I hope so
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241. # [01:21] <@roc> it will change them at least
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255. # [01:37] <jhammel> sheppy: will kuma have a restful api and will it be the same?
256. # [01:37] <jhammel> i have some scripts to update pages for me
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258. # [01:38] <sheppy> jhammel: you'd need to ask the devs for details on that. If there isn't one now, there will be.
259. # [01:38] <jhammel> cool, thanks
260. # [01:38] <sheppy> I just don't know if it's there yet. We've been focused very much on getting the core features out. :)
261. # [01:38] <jhammel> i hope there is one and i hope it continues to work with my script without too much magic
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272. # [01:56] <sheppy> jhammel: as you gathered in #mdndev, we'll work with you on that :)
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274. # [01:57] <jhammel> sheppy: thanks
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300. # [02:10] <sheppy> jhammel: if it helps, there's stuff I need to be able to do that I can't yet too :D
301. # [02:10] <jhammel> sheppy: what?!? your software isn't perfect?!? ;)
302. # [02:11] <sheppy> jhammel: I know, right!?
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306. # [02:14] <dhylands> I have a question about nsRefPtr vs nsCOMPtr usage. For nsIXxx classes, I should use nsCOMPtr. And for concrete classes derived from nsIXxx should I use nsRefPtr or nsCOMPtr?
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312. # [02:18] <nattokirai> dbaron: ping
313. # [02:18] <@dbaron> nattokirai, pong
314. # [02:19] <nattokirai> dbaron: is there some sort of rule of thumb for when nsString.h can be included rather than nsStringGlue.h?
315. # [02:19] <@dbaron> nattokirai, certainly anything in libxul should use nsString.h
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317. # [02:20] <nattokirai> for some reason, including nsString.h in a header that's included by nsFont.h
318. # [02:20] <nattokirai> causes preprocessory warnings to fire within places code
319. # [02:20] <@dbaron> nattokirai, then again, nsStringGlue.h is a header that's designed to include nsString.h or nsStringAPI.h depending on whether MOZILLA_INTERNAL_API is defined
320. # [02:21] <nattokirai> #error Internal string headers are not available from external-linkage code
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322. # [02:21] <@dbaron> nattokirai, so using nsStringGlue.h should be fine since it's just an #ifdef
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325. # [02:22] <nattokirai> hmmm
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327. # [02:22] <nattokirai> i'm wondering if there's some sort of makefile bug in the places code
328. # [02:22] <@gavin> places code?
329. # [02:23] <nattokirai> where it should be defining MOZ_INTERNAL_API when it's not
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331. # [02:23] <nattokirai> gavin: add #include "nsString.h" to nsFont.h (gfx/src)
332. # [02:23] <@dbaron> I tend to think things that aren't defining MOZILLA_INTERNAL_API probably shouldn't be including nsFont.h
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334. # [02:24] <@gavin> which places code are you talking about?
335. # [02:24] <nattokirai> gavin: and testing code in places/tests/cpp erupts
336. # [02:24] <@gavin> oh, testing code
337. # [02:24] * armenzg_teamweek is now known as armenzg_afk
338. # [02:24] <felipe> glandium: ping
339. # [02:24] <nattokirai> test_IHistory.cpp
340. # [02:24] <nattokirai> dbaron: right
341. # [02:24] <@gavin> how does test_IHistory.cpp end up including nsFont?
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344. # [02:25] <nattokirai> mozilla/dom/Link.h ==> nsPresContext.h ==> nsStyleConsts.h ==> nsFont.h
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347. # [02:26] <nattokirai> gavin: i'm omitting some intermediate includes but that's the jist of it
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349. # [02:26] <@dbaron> starting with test_IHistory.cpp -> mock_Link.h -> mozilla/dom/Link.h
350. # [02:27] <@dbaron> nattokirai, well, the easiest thing is probably just keep includig nsStringGlue.h
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352. # [02:27] <nattokirai> right
353. # [02:27] <nattokirai> the one thing i'm puzzled by is why this started happening
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356. # [02:28] <nattokirai> last week it was fine, then this week (after the nullptr stuff landed) the failures started
357. # [02:28] <kaie> biesi, with Bonsai it was possible to query the list of all changes inside a directory and in a date range, and get a nice web page with results. Is that possible with hg or the hg webtools?
358. # [02:29] <nattokirai> dbaron: i'm a little concerned that there might be some inadvertent that cause
359. # [02:29] <kaie> hmm, I guess I can use "hg log directory"
360. # [02:29] <nattokirai> caused this to fail
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364. # [02:31] <kaie> so my question is, is there a webtool to do that (probably not)
365. # [02:31] <nattokirai> dbaron: guess i'll just try and manually narrow down the regression range
366. # [02:31] <@dbaron> nattofriends, could have been any header file change in that range
367. # [02:31] <@dbaron> nattokirai, ^
368. # [02:32] <@dbaron> nattokirai, why is it worth finding the regression range?
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371. # [02:34] <nattokirai> dbaron: well, I wasted a half a day yesterday on this silly thing
372. # [02:34] <nattokirai> dbaron: so i'd like to feel confident I understand the cause
373. # [02:34] <nattokirai> dbaron: if it's just header order changes, fine
374. # [02:35] <nattokirai> dbaron: but if something got added/deleted that caused this, better to find that out now!
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378. # [02:39] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/766981b3d868 - Dave Hylands - Bug 780042 - nsVolumeService should use nsCOMPtr instead of nsRefPtr for nsIObserverService, r=dougt
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384. # [02:41] <johns> RyanVM: Is that failure on the 771666 push new?
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387. # [02:42] <RyanVM> johns: whoops, I had been starring a bunch of android failures at the same time
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391. # [02:43] <RyanVM> johns: but no, it isn't
392. # [02:43] <RyanVM> it's bug 778179
393. # [02:44] <johns> RyanVM: Okay, 771666 caused a GC issue last time it landed, but I am pretty sure that's been fixed - but if it keeps happening, that's the culprit
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395. # [02:45] <RyanVM> johns: we'll see if the retrigger shows anything, but bug 778179 is a pretty common one these days
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430. # [03:14] <kaie> bsmith, https://wiki.mozilla.org/NSS:UsingHG
431. # [03:15] <kaie> if you want to help me in convincing the NSS developers to agree to the switch, I propose to add goo arguments to this page before monday
432. # [03:15] <kaie> good
433. # [03:15] <dolske> "it's not CVS" should be all that's needed
434. # [03:15] * jmaher|afk is now known as jmaher
435. # [03:16] <kaie> not a helpful comment
436. # [03:16] <RyanVM> kaie: don't go getting my hopes up like that...
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438. # [03:17] <dolske> I'm surprised there's any discussion about it other that "Hg or github".
439. # [03:17] <dolske> wait, no, I'm not.
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442. # [03:17] <dolske> ooooooooh me be snarky again.
443. # [03:17] * dolske goes back to a patch.
444. # [03:17] * sheppy dislikes git and hg almost equally. Does that help, dolske?
445. # [03:18] <dolske> you. back to your new devmo with you! :P
446. # [03:18] <kaie> opinions won't get us anywhere, only help. I'm completely neutral whether cvs or hg, and I don't really care what is being used, but I nevertheless try to help mozilla IT by having spent the afternoon on this page
447. # [03:19] <kaie> if you want to see change, be constructive and help
448. # [03:19] <kaie> because making that change is work
449. # [03:19] <kaie> as I explain in detail on that page
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451. # [03:19] <kaie> and I'm sure I've missed some stuff
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456. # [03:21] * sheppy hangs his head in shame and returns to his day job, then realizes it's not day anymore.
457. # [03:21] <@gavin> kaie: convincing NSS developers to use hg isn't a prerequisite for creating an NSS hg repository, fwiw
458. # [03:22] <@gavin> why not do that right away?
459. # [03:22] <kaie> having a nss hg repository is irrelevant if it isn't the master and if there isn't automatic mirroring
460. # [03:22] <@gavin> makes it easier to switch later if things are already set up
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462. # [03:22] <ewong> kaie, wrt "Revert a file to its original state", doesn't it leave a .orig file? or am I mistaken?
463. # [03:22] <kaie> I have proposed that a while ago, but nobody had followed up
464. # [03:22] <@gavin> I'm only talking about the actual setup (get IT to create respository)
465. # [03:22] <@gavin> it's not "irrelevant" to get that work out of the way
466. # [03:23] <kaie> gavin, I don't understand your point yet, what does it help to have a hg repository for nss, if nobody uses it, becuase it isn't considered to be the master?
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468. # [03:23] <@gavin> 1) someone who isn't an NSS developer can keep it up to date, if they find it useful
469. # [03:24] <@gavin> 2) if/when NSS developers decide to switch, they don't need to wait to make use of it right away
470. # [03:25] <kaie> I think it would be good to start by having a volunteer who offers to keep a hg mirror up to date, but so far I haven't seen one, despite having suggested such mirroring in the past, to the people who asked for hg
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472. # [03:25] <kaie> without having a volunteer yet, wouldn't it be simply confusing to have a stale hg copy of an old snapshot?
473. # [03:25] <@gavin> setting up a cronjob to sync things is pretty trivial
474. # [03:26] <@gavin> anyhow, I don't care
475. # [03:26] <@gavin> and I have to go
476. # [03:26] <kaie> ewong, I guess you're right, I can add that step, thanks
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478. # [03:28] <ewong> kaie np.. just something to consider.. keep on forgetting about those .orig files
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512. # [04:05] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/c2090a46d34e - Devdatta Akhawe - Bug 767676 - Implement Security UI Telemetry. r=honzab,bsmith,felipc,dtownsend
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514. # [04:07] <bsmith> gavin: I understand what you're saying but I think we just need to wait a week to see what the result of the conversation is
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516. # [04:07] <bsmith> I have already written a script that imports all the NSS (and NSPR? I forget) history into a mercurial repository
517. # [04:08] <@gavin> bsmith: I wasn't aware that there was a scheduled conversation
518. # [04:08] <bsmith> The issue is mostly with getting people who are used to using CVS comfortable with using hg, so that nobody feels like somebody else is forcing them to do something (NSS team forcing IT to maintain CVS; Mozilla forcing the NSS team to switch to hg)
519. # [04:09] <@gavin> I understand that
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521. # [04:09] <@gavin> my point really was just that the creation is cheap, but takes a bit of time
522. # [04:09] <@gavin> so might as well get it out of the way
523. # [04:09] <bsmith> gavin: Wed at 10:00-10:30 and more, probably.
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525. # [04:09] <bsmith> https://wiki.mozilla.org/NSS:FaceToFace2012
526. # [04:10] <bsmith> gavin: I think that might be perceived as being presumptuous and make things more difficult
527. # [04:10] <bsmith> I have never offended anybody and I don't want to start now
528. # [04:11] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/89dcadd42ec4 - Ryan VanderMeulen - Merge the last PGO-green inbound changeset to m-c.
529. # [04:11] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/6a82b0462271 - Ryan VanderMeulen - Merge m-c to inbound.
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531. # [04:11] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/030feb4315fc - Blake Kaplan - Bug 779886 - wifiMangager.connectionInformation throws when we're not connected. r=bent DONTBUILD
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533. # [04:11] <@gavin> if the existence of a repository offends anyone that would indeed be a sad state of affairs
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539. # [04:18] <RyanVM> johns: ping
540. # [04:19] <RyanVM> johns: looks like you've got some real bustage
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542. # [04:19] <bsmith> gavin: I understand it seems a little absurd. It's mostly fallout from me being too undiplomatic about the issue previously
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548. # [04:26] <efaust> bz: ping?
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550. # [04:28] <@bz> efaust: ack
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558. # [04:36] <efaust> bz: is the resolution we are about to implement in bug 742188 OK with you? It would involve subsuming the to int behavior (with slightly better performance in some cases, and full semantic correctness) into the js engine, and removing ValueTo{Ui,I}nt64() altogether from xpcpublic.h
559. # [04:36] * efaust wants to touch base before he finishes up implementing
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579. # [05:08] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/cf46b1ea1ccc - John Schoenick - Backout 1f47de086284 (Bug 771666) for orangeness
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592. # [05:34] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/261a1476751e - Robert O'Callahan - Bug 646331. Specify correct duration for 320x240.ogv. r=cpearce
593. # [05:34] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/e3c588f74c89 - Robert O'Callahan - Bug 778045. Add helpful comment to ImageContainer explaining its modes. r=bas
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612. # [06:01] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/20c3e03a259a - Benjamin Peterson - Bug 780051 - Remove JS_MAX and JS_MIN. r=luke
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630. # [06:27] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/46653198caac - Ben Turner - Bug 778968 - 'Avoid stat-ing remote blobs on the main thread'. r=janv.
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642. # [06:59] <benjamin> bent: you just broke everything
643. # [06:59] <daleharvey> can anyone think of a way to reliably crash a tab?
644. # [06:59] <bent> wow
645. # [06:59] <bent> indeed
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650. # [07:03] <dolske> nonsense
651. # [07:03] <dolske> Windows is still grey
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653. # [07:03] <bent> oh, windows will pass
654. # [07:03] <dolske> I remain optimistic!
655. # [07:03] <bent> msvc is much more lenient with template trickery
656. # [07:04] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/8233e9b84a46 - Ben Turner - Backed out changeset 46653198caac
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665. # [07:11] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/3f0334d53fd2 - Richard Newman - Bug 774300 - Sync authentication errors if passwords contain non-ASCII characters. r=nalexander
666. # [07:11] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/a46b1a65f871 - Nick Alexander - Bug 741960 - Fuzz backoff times up to 25% more to avoid client lock-stepping. r=rnewman
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671. # [07:16] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/6ecf2a75d1e5 - Richard Newman - Bug 774300 - Clean up mistakenly added test file. r=oops
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688. # [07:43] <dolske> dougt: tweet is related? :)
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697. # [07:52] <dougt> dolske: yup.
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699. # [07:53] <dougt> templates are a neat idea, but most of the time if you do anything really extreme with them, you'll cut yourself.
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705. # [08:03] <jet> tn: thanks for posting that patch for bug 689623.
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709. # [08:05] <Callek|Buildduty> dolske: is win still acting up?
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718. # [08:19] <efaust> inbound is so green!
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720. # [08:20] <dRdR> efaust: http://imgur.com/SFK5Y
721. # [08:21] <pdagnelie> i,i r=oops
722. # [08:22] <efaust> dRdR: hahahahahahaha
723. # [08:22] <efaust> pdagnelie: like you haven't wanted to do that.
724. # [08:22] <pdagnelie> i'll admit i have
725. # [08:23] <dRdR> sometimes when I'm bored and don't want to wait for review, I land patches with r=burning even though the tree is fine
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728. # [08:27] <efaust> ^^ this guy seems legit
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731. # [08:30] <glandium> wolfiR: ping
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735. # [08:36] * Fallen|away is now known as Fallen
736. # [08:37] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/3cffd20b3452 - Ben Turner - Bug 778968 - 'Avoid stat-ing remote blobs on the main thread'. r=janv.
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740. # [08:42] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/8bdecf300a07 - David Zbarsky - Bug 779385 - Help CSS authors diagnose why animations aren't async r=cjones
741. # [08:43] <wolfiR> glandium: pong
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743. # [08:45] <glandium> wolfiR: could you send me over the srpm for glib2 from sles11 ?
744. # [08:45] <glandium> sp1 or 2
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746. # [08:48] <wolfiR> glandium: I guess I can, give me some minutes
747. # [08:48] <glandium> wolfiR: thanks
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788. # [09:42] <glazou> bonjour
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792. # [09:44] <Ms2ger> Morning
793. # [09:46] <edmorley> Good morning :-)
794. # [09:50] <jaws> good morning :)
795. # [09:50] <jaws> edmorley: for bug 779419, to do a reconfigure should i just do a clobber before my next push?
796. # [09:51] <edmorley> jaws: it's on the infra side, so releng need to do it
797. # [09:51] <jaws> k
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799. # [09:51] <edmorley> jaws: they've landed a fair few buildbot config changes in the last 24 hrs so will be doing one very soon
800. # [09:52] <jaws> cool
801. # [09:52] <jaws> i'll wait until the bug gets marked as reso-fixed before i merge again
802. # [09:53] <edmorley> jaws: ok :-)
803. # [09:53] <edmorley> jaws: I still don't know much about the buildbot side of things, but basically I think they just need to do steps #6 and #7 from https://wiki.mozilla.org/Buildbot/Updating_Configs
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811. # [10:03] * Ms2ger wonders how many more tries nrc will need to land his patch qtack
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825. # [10:11] * NeilAway wonders how an async animation compares to any other sort of animation
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856. # [10:47] <@smaug> ted: just curious, what is the status of gamepad API ?
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858. # [10:49] <AryehGregor> jcranmer|away, I intend to submit patches for c-c that lets it still pass try once nsresult becomes an enum. However, a lot of it will probably just be changing implicit bogus conversions to explicit casts. Like where you have rv = Foo() where Foo() returns a bool, if I don't see an obvious way to fix it I'm generally changing it to reinterpret_cast<bool&>(rv) = Foo() so it does the same thing as it did but the brokenness is ob
859. # [10:49] <AryehGregor> vious.
860. # [10:49] <AryehGregor> (I could do rv = static_cast<nsresult>(Foo()) too, but that's less obvious because it doesn't indicate what the return type of Foo() is)
861. # [10:50] <AryehGregor> However, if (for instance) Foo() has a return type of int but really returns nsresults anyway, I'll try to check for that and change its signature to nsresult instead.
862. # [10:51] <AryehGregor> c-c code is horrible, though. Loads of places like "nsresult rv = 0;" instead of NS_OK, "if (rv < 0)" instead of "if (NS_FAILED(rv))" . . . much worse than m-c was. :(
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882. # [11:11] * davehunt|away is now known as davehunt
883. # [11:11] <shkundap> Hi , I am compiling firefox and I am getting this error. http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1734163 . What am I missing? Thanks.
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885. # [11:12] <dougt> shkundap: depends on your mozconfig. might want to add: ac_add_options --disable-elf-hack
886. # [11:12] <dougt> but really not sure what you're building.
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888. # [11:12] * ChanServ sets mode: +o smaug
889. # [11:12] * glazou waves at dougt
890. # [11:12] <dougt> hey glazou!
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892. # [11:14] <glandium> shkundap: what are you building on?
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894. # [11:15] <shkundap> dougt: Thanks. Let me try and get back. I am building plain firefox without any changes. glandium : I am using ubuntu , very old version ( dapper drake - 6.06 )
895. # [11:15] * ChanServ sets mode: +o not_gavin
896. # [11:16] <glandium> shkundap: you're likely to hit more problems than just that. but what dougt gave will at least work around the one you already had
897. # [11:17] <shkundap> glandium : I am using old one cos .. I need to deploy my firefox on ubuntu 6.06. Let me try this. Thanks again.
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900. # [11:22] <TheOne> does anyone know why VSC++ locks up with the "is busy" balloon when trying to debug Tb daily?
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910. # [11:46] <Ms2ger> Gah
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917. # [11:51] <Ms2ger> gerv, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=780088%2C780089%2C780090%2C780091%2C780092%2C780093 :/
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919. # [11:56] <@smaug> ttaubert: ping
920. # [11:56] <@smaug> er, nm
921. # [11:57] <efaust> bholley: ping
922. # [11:57] <bholley> efaust: hi
923. # [11:58] <Ms2ger> Ohai, it's bholley
924. # [11:58] <efaust> bholley: hey, I'm working on bug 742188, and Ms2ger suggested you would be good to talk to about implementing more expansive testing strategies
925. # [11:58] <efaust> oh, speak of the devil :P
926. # [11:58] * bholley looks
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928. # [11:59] <efaust> it looks like we have various argument in/out testing already in place, but none of them seem to test double->int64 or double->uint64
929. # [11:59] <Ms2ger> efaust, hmm, actually, if you move it all into js/src/, maybe a jsapi test...
930. # [12:00] <bholley> efaust: well, the stuff in xpconnect/tests/unit/test_params.js is testing XPConnect/XPIDL, not newbindings/WebIDL
931. # [12:00] <efaust> Ms2ger: yeah, that's another thought. It should grow a test suite, though, as mis-conversions sound nasty to debug later
932. # [12:00] <bholley> efaust: you'er welcome to add tests for double->int64 there, but I don't think it would help the bug at hand very much
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934. # [12:01] <efaust> bholley: well, that's OK, though, because don't the old bindings call xpc::ValueToInt64()?
935. # [12:01] <Ms2ger> They do
936. # [12:01] * efaust distinctly remembers changing that code :P
937. # [12:01] <Ms2ger> I fixed that a while back
938. # [12:01] <bholley> Ms2ger: even the non-quickstubs versions?
939. # [12:01] <Ms2ger> Yep
940. # [12:01] <Ms2ger> http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/js/xpconnect/src/XPCConvert.cpp#416
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942. # [12:01] * bholley vaguely remembers r+ing that
943. # [12:01] <Ms2ger> Bug 755875 - Use ValueToInt64/ValueToUint64 in XPCConvert::JSData2Native; r=bholley
944. # [12:01] <bholley> efaust: ok, then feel free to add those tests
945. # [12:01] <Ms2ger> Looks like you did :)
946. # [12:02] <efaust> ok. Is this actually the best place for them, or should we seek refuge elsewhere?
947. # [12:02] <Ms2ger> We should probably set up something like this for new bindings too
948. # [12:03] <Ms2ger> bholley, while you're here and we're talking about that code...
949. # [12:03] <bholley> efaust: the new bindings definitely need a test suite
950. # [12:03] <efaust> Well, there are codegen tests, but yeah, I don't think we have any roundtrip testing for the new bindings
951. # [12:03] <bholley> efaust: feel free to write one, or to do the path of least resistance ;-)
952. # [12:03] <Ms2ger> switch (type.TagPart()) { ... default: switch (type.TagPart()) { ... } }
953. # [12:03] <Ms2ger> Would you say that's silly?
954. # [12:04] <efaust> it looks damn silly.
955. # [12:04] <bholley> Ms2ger: link?
956. # [12:04] <efaust> bholley: OK. I will look into what it would take to port some semblance ofthe old suite to the new bindings in the morning.
957. # [12:04] <Ms2ger> http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/js/xpconnect/src/XPCConvert.cpp#473
958. # [12:05] <Ms2ger> efaust++
959. # [12:05] <efaust> Ms2ger: hey now, I haven't actually done it yet :P
960. # [12:05] <Ms2ger> I'll happily decrement you if nothing materialises ;)
961. # [12:05] <efaust> heh
962. # [12:06] <bholley> Ms2ger: heh
963. # [12:06] <bholley> Ms2ger: patches welcome as always
964. # [12:06] <Ms2ger> bholley, also, did you get my email?
965. # [12:07] <bholley> Ms2ger: yeah haven't read it yet. I'll get to it though :-)
966. # [12:07] <Ms2ger> Thanks :)
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968. # [12:07] <efaust> Ms2ger: do the old bindings expect 2^64 mod conversions on double->int64 like WebIDL specs? In particular, we want to remove xpc::ValueToInt64 all together, if we can.
969. # [12:08] * efaust meant to check this with Boris this past evening, but missed him
970. # [12:08] <Ms2ger> efaust, I prefer old and new bindings matching if possible
971. # [12:08] <efaust> Perfect; that's the easy way. :)
972. # [12:09] <Ms2ger> I doubt anybody is relying on XPConnect doing something else here
973. # [12:12] <Ms2ger> I would like to share more code, in fact
974. # [12:12] <Ms2ger> Oh, wow, try is fast
975. # [12:12] <@smaug> it is ?
976. # [12:12] <@smaug> hmm, what should I push there
977. # [12:13] * glazou is now known as glazou_errand
978. # [12:13] <efaust> Ms2ger: all the interns are asleep ;)
979. # [12:13] <Ms2ger> Alright, who's failing test_cross_domain.xul?
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981. # [12:16] <Ms2ger> First one was on 766981b3d868, apparently
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984. # [12:17] <Ms2ger> Bug 771294 sounds suspicious
985. # [12:17] * Ms2ger retriggers a bit
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988. # [12:19] <edmorley> Ms2ger: yeah my thoughts too
989. # [12:19] <Ms2ger> felipe, ping
990. # [12:20] <edmorley> I've requested some dep builds for the ones we're missing and retriggered some others
991. # [12:21] <edmorley> ah, seeing in-bug, this was backed out once for the same failure, but relanded "because it was an existing orange"
992. # [12:21] <edmorley> lies! :-)
993. # [12:22] * ewong is now known as ewong|away
994. # [12:22] <Ms2ger> Hey, some part of this file failed on SeaMonkey
995. # [12:24] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/f633b07099d9 - Ed Morley - Backout 1924fe55fb6e (bug 771294) for causing failures in test_cross_domain.xul
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1007. # [12:38] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/f45e03f39053 - Ed Morley - Bug 661099 - Disable part of test_bug596600.xul on OS X 10.6 for frequent intermittent failures; r=mstange
1008. # [12:39] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/a870e6e0b517 - Ed Morley - Bug 733848 - Temporarily disable part of markuprules.xml for frequent intermittent failures; r=surkov
1009. # [12:39] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/3f0b1cc00bc2 - Ed Morley - Bug 620598, Bug 661076 & Bug 687972 - Disable frequently intermittent media tests on Linux; r=cpearce
1010. # [12:39] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/86db73c43c8b - Ed Morley - Bug 760770 - Mark test_timeupdate_small_files.html's "got unexpected stalled after ended" as todo for seek.webm, for frequent intermittent failures; r=cpearce
1011. # [12:39] * adrian is now known as adrian|lunch
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1013. # [12:39] <ttaubert> edmorley++
1014. # [12:40] <edmorley> :-)
1015. # [12:41] <edmorley> the thought of being stuck with those for the next year (in esr17) was motivation to start picking them off ;_0
1016. # [12:41] <edmorley> emoticon fail, doh
1017. # [12:41] <edmorley> every character wrong
1018. # [12:41] <ttaubert> heh
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1020. # [12:43] <Ms2ger> Ah, the first useful consequence of esr
1021. # [12:46] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/6a13303220dd - Vivien Nicolas - Bug 777672 - [b2g] |body { overflow: hidden }| do not hide scrollbars (css part). r=fabrice
1022. # [12:46] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/a741513132bd - Vivien Nicolas - Bug 777672 - [b2g] |body { overflow: hidden }| do not hide scrollbars. r=roc
1023. # [12:46] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/b5e444664a6c - Markus Stange - Bug 770453 - [b2g] Semi-transparent scroll bars should not occupy content-flow space. r=roc
1024. # [12:46] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/a99a135fc810 - Vivien Nicolas - Bug 770453 - [b2g] Semi-transparent scroll bars should not occupy content-flow space mobile/xul part. r=mfinkle
1025. # [12:46] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/c449b548784e - Vivien Nicolas - Bug 778810 - Show/Hide scrollbars depending on activity. r=roc
1026. # [12:46] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/f687cf5c1bb5 - Vivien Nicolas - Bug 778810 - Show/Hide scrollbars depending on activity (css part). r=fabrice
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1031. # [12:55] <edmorley> ttaubert++
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1033. # [12:56] <ttaubert> it's karma day
1034. # [12:56] <ttaubert> :)
1035. # [12:59] <edmorley> ttaubert: and the output from bug 728294 is in a starrable format, awesome! :-)
1036. # [13:00] * edmorley is looking forward to seeing the orangefactor score next week
1037. # [13:04] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/2d8bd0de9362 - Vivien Nicolas - Bug 777672 - Remove changes to dom/browser-element/ that are not related to bug 777672. r=me
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1043. # [13:16] <ttaubert> edmorley: yeah, if course kept that format you added :)
1044. # [13:18] <edmorley> between that bug, the disables I've just landed, the android watcher clownshoes reboot patch that landed yesterday, and another possible android reboot fix incoming, it's like Christmas has come early for the tree :-)
1045. # [13:18] <Ms2ger> All orange and red baubles?
1046. # [13:18] <ttaubert> nice
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1050. # [13:22] <edmorley> Ms2ger: heh
1051. # [13:23] <Ms2ger> edmorley, can't help it, that's what I associate with Christmas :)
1052. # [13:23] * edmorley admires how shiny and green https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Mozilla-Inbound&rev=8bdecf300a07&jobname=Android is
1053. # [13:23] <edmorley> (just don't &noignore=1 lol)
1054. # [13:25] <Ms2ger> Hmm, a workers crash on bent's push...
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1058. # [13:35] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/73b3b3f828b0 - Brian R. Bondy - Bug 779916 - ServicesHelper NSIS plugin was updated with changed paths. r=jimm
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1060. # [13:36] <edmorley> joduinn-afk: the Ash twig repo seems to be unused, but https://wiki.mozilla.org/ReleaseEngineering/DisposableProjectBranches#BOOKING_SCHEDULE still says it is hired out; is that correct?
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1062. # [13:38] <@ted> smaug: the patches?
1063. # [13:38] <@ted> smaug: still trying to find time to finish them up :-(
1064. # [13:39] <Ms2ger> Sounds like you need another minion
1065. # [13:39] <@ted> every so often i find time and update them, and then i have to fix them up for more review comments so it takes me a few more weeks
1066. # [13:39] <@ted> i think everything but the core dom bits and the mac bits have r+ now
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1068. # [13:40] <Ms2ger> Can you pre-land the other backends, or doesn't that make sense?
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1086. # [14:06] <Ms2ger> bholley, ta
1087. # [14:06] <bholley> Ms2ger: :-)
1088. # [14:07] <Standard8> AryehGregor: maybe you can fix some of the more simple ones, and post an indication of the others? That way, we might have one or two people who could fix those up
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1093. # [14:11] <NeilAway> AryehGregor: does reinterpret_cast<bool&> actually work, or does it only change the bottom byte?
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1097. # [14:14] <NeilAway> Ms2ger: whut?
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1101. # [14:15] <NeilAway> re <Ms2ger> Hey, some part of this file failed on SeaMonkey
1102. # [14:18] <AryehGregor> Standard8, I'd really like to land the actual conversion to enum ASAP. In like a week after I finished patching up m-c to work, there were two more patches pushed that had bugs that were caught by the change.
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1104. # [14:18] <AryehGregor> So I'd prefer quick fixes that make things compile, and then proper fixes as followups.
1105. # [14:18] <AryehGregor> NeilAway, huh! Good point, I didn't think of that.
1106. # [14:18] <AryehGregor> You're probably right, I should static_cast the thing being assigned.
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1108. # [14:19] <Standard8> AryehGregor: sure, that's fine, but I was just thinking if we could get an initial list of what is wrong, there may be something we can pump out quick. Its hard to assess without knowing the list..
1109. # [14:19] <AryehGregor> Standard8, it's a WIP. I could post my provisional patch right now.
1110. # [14:20] <AryehGregor> But there's a lot more to do.
1111. # [14:20] <AryehGregor> A lot is just really braindead stuff like s/nsresult foo = 0;/nsresult foo = NS_OK;/.
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1115. # [14:23] <AryehGregor> NeilAway, you're right -- gcc at least does just overwrite the bottom byte. Good catch!
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1118. # [14:24] <AryehGregor> Standard8, my current patch is here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1126963/ I assure you it's all kinds of broken right now; I'm going to have to add a lot more to it, then go over it with a fine-toothed comb and make sure all the changes look sane, and split them up into multiple patches for submission.
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1124. # [14:36] <decoder> jesup: ping :)
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1135. # [14:56] <Standard8> AryehGregor: oh, heh, mork!
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1138. # [14:57] <jcranmer> mork has badly written code? who'd have thought that‽
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1140. # [15:00] <gaston> anyone (ms2ger ?:) want to steal an easy review from khuey on https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=763976#c33 ?
1141. # [15:01] <Ms2ger> gaston, it's sitting in sicking's review queue too :)
1142. # [15:02] <gaston> oh it's a dupe ?
1143. # [15:03] <Ms2ger> I guess you could say that; bug 743573
1144. # [15:04] <Ms2ger> Oh, nice
1145. # [15:04] <Ms2ger> edmorley, should Armv7a ICS debug be hidden on try too?
1146. # [15:05] <gaston> right.. but fail_on_warnings will probably hurt me :)
1147. # [15:05] <Ms2ger> Not if you don't turn it on :)
1148. # [15:06] <edmorley> Ms2ger: just filed bug 780125 for the bustage, though yeah would appear it's just hidden on other trees
1149. # [15:06] <edmorley> nice of them to tell me
1150. # [15:06] <edmorley> :-)
1151. # [15:06] <Standard8> AryehGregor: jcranmer: I think some of those bool replacments might actually be better as return xxx ? NS_OK : NS_ERROR_FAILURE; as I think that's the general intention
1152. # [15:06] <gaston> Ms2ger: thx!
1153. # [15:07] <Ms2ger> Np
1154. # [15:07] <gaston> hmm what's the diff between r= and rs= ?
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1157. # [15:09] <edmorley> gaston: rs rubber stampt
1158. # [15:09] <edmorley> stamp even
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1162. # [15:10] <edmorley> gaston: so more of a person X said you could get automatic rs+ on a certain change, without them having to review the exact diff (eg the makefiles.sh files have a standing rs+ from #build)
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1172. # [15:16] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/d848e7c66c61 - Jan Beich - Bug 779847: use optimized color conversion on BSDs. r=doublec
1173. # [15:16] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/d8010258ceea - Landry Breuil - Bug 763976. Followup: remove extra comma at end of enum. rs=ms2ger
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1177. # [15:17] <AryehGregor> Standard8, I'm sure that's the intention, but I don't want to make functional changes here -- the intent might not match what callers are relying on.
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1179. # [15:18] <Standard8> AryehGregor: ok, np
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1202. # [15:46] <TheOne> btw, when are you going to use the new aurora icon?
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1217. # [16:14] <edmorley> bbondy: there were two new intermittent failures on your m-c push; I've filed one, please may you file the other
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1219. # [16:15] <glazou> is anyone building on mountain lion already?
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1222. # [16:19] <bbondy> edmorley: I don't think that push changes any code which is actually compiled
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1224. # [16:19] <bbondy> I can file though, but not related to my push
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1227. # [16:20] <edmorley> bbondy: yeah I didn't mean it was related, it was more it wasn't landed on inbound, so is supposed to be less hands-off
1228. # [16:20] <bbondy> k np, didn't want to bother anyone since it doesn't change actual compiled code
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1230. # [16:21] <bbondy> edmorley: this one? chrome://mochitests/content/browser/browser/base/content/test/browser_save_video.js | Exited with code 1 during test run
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1233. # [16:22] <edmorley> bbondy: yeah but intermittents need to be filed when they are first seen, or it makes tracking when/how/why they were introduced much harder
1234. # [16:22] <edmorley> bbondy: yeah that one
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1236. # [16:22] <bbondy> k cool
1237. # [16:22] <bbondy> thx
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1240. # [16:23] <edmorley> bbondy: if it's any consolation, I've filed 7 others today :-)
1241. # [16:23] <bbondy> :D
1242. # [16:24] <bbondy> I'll make more of a habbit of filing things that unmarked and that I don't recognize
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1253. # [16:27] <bbondy> edmorley: Filed Bug 780149
1254. # [16:27] <edmorley> bbondy: thank you :-)
1255. # [16:28] <edmorley> bbondy: I'm less fussed on inbound btw since that's more what it's for (set and forget)
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1278. # [16:49] <vlad> gps: ping for when you're around :)
1279. # [16:52] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/73b3b3f828b0 - Brian R. Bondy - Bug 779916 - ServicesHelper NSIS plugin was updated with changed paths. r=jimm
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1281. # [16:52] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/62d4f0efe485 - Ed Morley - Merge last PGO-green changeset of mozilla-inbound to mozilla-central
1282. # [16:53] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/470c2ac0548a - Ed Morley - Merge mozilla-central to mozilla-inbound
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1305. # [17:18] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/0d1da7c6afd5 - Benoit Jacob - Bug 778765 - Work around nouveau driver bug by changing samples=1 to samples=0 - r=jgilbert
1306. # [17:18] <edmorley> ttaubert: happy for me to merge fx-team back to m-c?
1307. # [17:19] * rail_away is now known as rail
1308. # [17:19] * edmorley would like to get his paws on bug 728294's landings
1309. # [17:19] * rail is now known as rail|teamweek
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1311. # [17:21] <KaiRo> bjacob: I just commented on your post on those numbers you got from crashes - always be aware that you are looking at crash numbers, not at usage share numbers, so some OS rising means it's seeing way more crashes, doesn't have to mean way more users ;-)
1312. # [17:21] <bjacob> KaiRo: hah, thanks, very good theory
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1314. # [17:22] * khuey|away is now known as voldemort
1315. # [17:22] <Ms2ger> Hi voldemort
1316. # [17:22] * voldemort is now known as khuey
1317. # [17:22] <KaiRo> bjacob: you also graphed the rise of crashes in June, that corresponds with my comments - that rise completely is Flash 11.3 on Vista and Win7
1318. # [17:22] <bjacob> KaiRo: i see
1319. # [17:23] <bjacob> KaiRo: updating the page
1320. # [17:23] <KaiRo> bjacob: and around Firefox 4, we experimented with processing 100% of all crashes, then went back to throttling Firefox release crashes at 10% again
1321. # [17:23] * jlebar|away is now known as jlebar
1322. # [17:23] <jlebar> Ms2ger, ping
1323. # [17:23] <bjacob> KaiRo: hah!
1324. # [17:24] <Ms2ger> jlebar, yo
1325. # [17:24] <bjacob> KaiRo: i was wondering if there had been a huge crasher for a few days
1326. # [17:24] <KaiRo> bjacob: so I can easily explain those things you see in overall numbers :)
1327. # [17:24] <jlebar> Ms2ger, So...|long|. That can't be our preferred way to specify PRInt32 in IDL.
1328. # [17:24] <Ms2ger> It is
1329. # [17:24] <jlebar> Ms2ger, That would be...really dumb.
1330. # [17:24] <bjacob> KaiRo: next time i'll ask you first
1331. # [17:24] <jlebar> Ms2ger, Why is that better than PRUint32?
1332. # [17:24] <KaiRo> bjacob: the analysis of the graphics stuff is quite interesting, though, thanks a lot
1333. # [17:24] * AryehGregor just ran hg revert -aC and didn't realize he had a lot of uncommitted changes to get enum class working
1334. # [17:24] * AryehGregor discovers he has no backups of /mnt
1335. # [17:24] <AryehGregor> Sigh.
1336. # [17:25] <bjacob> KaiRo: np
1337. # [17:25] <jlebar> Ms2ger, I mean, |int| would be better, because at least int is 32 bits on most platforms. Long is 64 bits on LP64!
1338. # [17:25] <KaiRo> bjacob: yes, when looking at crash numbers, it's always a good idea to ask the CrashKill/stability team - we have stability@m.o set up now as a contact for the team, btw, and we have the #crashkill channel
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1340. # [17:25] <jlebar> Ms2ger, |long| is complete obfuscation of what it means.
1341. # [17:25] <bjacob> KaiRo: ok cool
1342. # [17:25] <Ms2ger> jlebar, 'long' is what we call a 32-bit signed integer in IDL
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1344. # [17:26] <jlebar> Ms2ger, But that's dumb, and since we have an alternative, why not use it?
1345. # [17:26] <Ms2ger> If you don't accept that [ski instructor] you're gonna have a bad time
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1349. # [17:26] <NeilAway> Ms2ger-- for naming you-know-who :-P
1350. # [17:26] <jlebar> Ms2ger, I mean, if consistency with something dumb is your only argument, I'm going to go ahead and r- this patch. This is your chance to convince me to do it your way.
1351. # [17:26] <bjacob> Ms2ger: i would be interested in a real answer too
1352. # [17:27] <Ms2ger> r- whatever you like, I don't have time to argue about silly things like this
1353. # [17:27] * Joins: davehunt (davehunt@moz-E2929564.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk)
1354. # [17:27] <jlebar> You had time to bring it up in the bug?
1355. # [17:27] <KaiRo> bjacob: also nice to see that WebGL support is comparatively high on Linux, though I wonder why that dropped again recently
1356. # [17:27] * jlebar just wants to understand.
1357. # [17:28] <bjacob> KaiRo: the recent drop is just noise, see how there have been bumps before too
1358. # [17:28] <KaiRo> bjacob: I hope that layers support will rise on Linux soon
1359. # [17:28] <bjacob> KaiRo: there is a wiki page for that now. the short answer is: this depends entirely on the GTK3 port
1360. # [17:29] <bjacob> KaiRo: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Platform/GFX/X11GLLayers
1361. # [17:29] <KaiRo> bjacob: btw, is there any good test I could run to see what current OpenGL layers code on Linux helps or not? (I have it forced on now and it seems to not cause problems since the very recent fixes)
1362. # [17:30] <KaiRo> bjacob: hmm, it depends on GTK3? forcing them on seems to work now under GTK2 as well...
1363. # [17:30] <bjacob> KaiRo: i guess you could push to try a patch enabling layers by default, and see all the reftest failures
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1365. # [17:30] <jdm> is there a rectangle class that inherits form nsISupports?
1366. # [17:31] <bjacob> KaiRo: you may be lucky with your XRender and texture_from_pixmap driver. but in general, we agreed that we wont be able to ship GL layers by default until we stop using these X11 APIs. see that wiki page. GTK3 is a key step in that direction
1367. # [17:31] <KaiRo> bjacob: I just wanted to see if there's some stuff I can run locally to see perf difference between GL layers on and off
1368. # [17:31] <bjacob> KaiRo: any full-screen webgl demo will give you a large boost from GL layers
1369. # [17:32] <bjacob> KaiRo: for performance decreases, try scrolling on a newspaper page, for me it's slower with current X11 GL layer
1370. # [17:32] <KaiRo> bjacob: well, both bugs listed in "Overview" on that page are fixed now ;-)
1371. # [17:32] <AryehGregor> jlebar, for one thing, WebIDL is a standard that we base a bunch of our IDLs on, and it uses "long" for 32-bit. http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/WebIDL/#idl-long
1372. # [17:32] <bjacob> KaiRo: talk to karlt for more details
1373. # [17:32] <jlebar> AryehGregor, Yeah, I just noticed that.
1374. # [17:32] <AryehGregor> It isn't consistent with C types, no.
1375. # [17:33] <jlebar> AryehGregor, It's just dumb.
1376. # [17:33] <bjacob> KaiRo: the fix in bug 687831 is am ugly, very slow workaround
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1378. # [17:33] <AryehGregor> jlebar, I'm pretty sure this convention dates to well before anyone seriously used 64-bit.
1379. # [17:34] <jlebar> AryehGregor, Sure. Doesn't make it less bad now, though. Sunk-cost fallacy. :)
1380. # [17:34] <KaiRo> bjacob: do we have anything that will show some perf numbers I could compare? I just wonder if it's quantifyable what it wins atm
1381. # [17:35] <AryehGregor> jlebar, it's not the sunk-cost fallacy. It's a question of what the cost is of changing now. The mismatch between IDL and C isn't a really strong argument in my view, and a mismatch between WebIDL and XPCOM IDL would be much more annoying IMO.
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1383. # [17:35] <KaiRo> bjacob: I understand that anything still using X stuff and not fully going through GL-based stuff will not be fully satisfactory, of course
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1385. # [17:35] <AryehGregor> Changing WebIDL is not a serious option, I don't think, although you could always ask heycam|away if you really wanted to pursue it.
1386. # [17:35] <jlebar> AryehGregor, XPIDL and WebIDL are completely mismatched.
1387. # [17:35] <bjacob> KaiRo: yep, that summarizes it.
1388. # [17:36] * Joins: Optimizer (Optimizer@702DE3C0.AF6B21DA.BE90E62C.IP)
1389. # [17:36] <bjacob> KaiRo: the only reason why chromium is ahead of us there is that they never used X apis
1390. # [17:36] <AryehGregor> I hope they're not *too* mismatched, because we generate our WebIDL bindings from XPIDL.
1391. # [17:36] <jlebar> AryehGregor, At the binding level, of course they're compatible. But not at all at the syntax level.
1392. # [17:36] <jlebar> AryehGregor, You were making an argument about the IDL syntax, right?
1393. # [17:36] <AryehGregor> Yes.
1394. # [17:36] <jlebar> AryehGregor, At the syntax level, xpidl and webidl are not compatible.
1395. # [17:37] * Joins: mccr8 (mccr8@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com)
1396. # [17:37] <AryehGregor> No, XPIDL supports zillions of extra features, and I'm sure WebIDL supports a bunch of features that XPIDL doesn't.
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1398. # [17:37] <bjacob> KaiRo: would you know by any chance why Linux saw a 2x increase around July 7, 2011
1399. # [17:37] <AryehGregor> But that doesn't mean we should make them *more* incompatible.
1400. # [17:37] * BenWa is now known as BenWa|sms
1401. # [17:37] <AryehGregor> A lot of WebIDL lines can be copied verbatim to XPIDL, right?
1402. # [17:37] <jlebar> AryehGregor, I'm not suggesting that we remove long from XPIDL.
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1404. # [17:38] <jlebar> AryehGregor, Just that I be allowed to use PRInt32.
1405. # [17:38] <AryehGregor> What do you suggest?
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1407. # [17:38] <KaiRo> bjacob: it's often the case that Chrome/Chromium learned lessons from us and avoided problems from the beginning - after all, their original core devs worked for us long enough
1408. # [17:38] <jlebar> AryehGregor, Or otherwise, that we remove PRInt32, and the corresponding temptation to use a suck-less typename.
1409. # [17:38] <AryehGregor> I'd support removing PRInt32 from XPIDL syntax, and I bet Ms2ger would too.
1410. # [17:38] <KaiRo> bjacob: hmm, no idea why Linux would increase there - you mean in overall crash volume?
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1412. # [17:39] <bjacob> KaiRo: yes, look at the 'os market share' graph around july 7 2011
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1415. # [17:40] <jorendorff> how can i use dxr to search for files that include "vm/Xdr.h"?
1416. # [17:40] <Ms2ger> jlebar, why would you argue for having both long and PRInt32?
1417. # [17:40] <jlebar> Ms2ger, Because I can't have just PRInt32.
1418. # [17:40] <Ms2ger> That only makes our code harder to approach
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1420. # [17:40] <KaiRo> bjacob: yes, I see that, that's interesting
1421. # [17:41] <bjacob> KaiRo: updated
1422. # [17:41] <Ms2ger> I prefer just long over just PRInt32 over a mix
1423. # [17:41] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/33d2a320f683 - Andrew McCreight - Bug 724666 - Remove debugging printfs. r=bgirard
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1425. # [17:42] <KaiRo> bjacob: I wonder if that's related to some change to throttling with rapid releases
1426. # [17:42] <bjacob> KaiRo: but that shouldn't have affected just 1 OS?
1427. # [17:42] <tn> jlebar, whats the ownership structure of imgIRequests and allows mImageTracker in nsDocument to not addref its imgIRequests?
1428. # [17:43] * Joins: kdcw (kdc@moz-F7413045.pk.shawcable.net)
1429. # [17:43] <bjacob> KaiRo: or do different OSes have different throttling? so that market share graphs are meaningless
1430. # [17:43] <tn> jlebar, ...that allows...
1431. # [17:43] <jlebar> tn, I'm not sure...let me see if I can see.
1432. # [17:43] <KaiRo> bjacob: well, the difference is that a lot of Linux users are actually on the default channel (distro builds) rather than the release channel (our own builds)
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1434. # [17:44] <KaiRo> bjacob: and IIRC we only throttle the release channel (and only for Firefox desktop)
1435. # [17:44] <bjacob> KaiRo: what's the "default channel" ?
1436. # [17:44] <KaiRo> bjacob: the update/release channel called "default"
1437. # [17:44] <bjacob> KaiRo: i've never heard of that!
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1439. # [17:44] <KaiRo> which is the default setting and doesn't receive updates through our system
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1441. # [17:44] <bjacob> oh i see
1442. # [17:45] <jlebar> AryehGregor, Ms2ger I sent mail to the list. Feel free to pile on me. :)
1443. # [17:45] <KaiRo> bjacob: still, what this rise may actually be is that some distro might not have submitted crash reports to us previously and might have switched that on
1444. # [17:45] <KaiRo> does it correspond to some diostro release?
1445. # [17:45] <bjacob> not really, no
1446. # [17:46] <bjacob> oh, maybe a fedora
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1448. # [17:46] <bjacob> nope
1449. # [17:46] <KaiRo> Fedora 16
1450. # [17:46] <KaiRo> 2011-11-08
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1452. # [17:47] <KaiRo> oh, that's November
1453. # [17:47] <jlebar> tn, That is very strange, isn't it?
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1456. # [17:48] <tn> jlebar, i don't know, maybe whoever does AddImage is guaranteed to do RemoveImage before it drops its ref
1457. # [17:48] * mcote is now known as mcote|bbiab
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1459. # [17:49] <jlebar> tn, It may be the following:
1460. # [17:50] <jlebar> tn, nsImageLoadingContent calls AddImage (via nsImageLoadingContent::TrackImage)
1461. # [17:50] <jlebar> tn, nsImageLoadingContent is a superclass of nsIDOMImageElement.
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1463. # [17:50] <jlebar> tn, which is owned by the document.
1464. # [17:51] <jlebar> tn, The other place this gets called is in layout code, e.g. nsStyleBorder::TrackImage. Let's see...
1465. # [17:51] <KaiRo> bjacob: it could match with the Socorro release for rapid releases, but I don't have exact dates for that time
1466. # [17:51] <tn> jlebar, and nsImageLoadingContent/nsIDOMImageElement can't drop its ref to its imgIRequest before its destroyed?
1467. # [17:52] <jlebar> tn, It can, but I think it unregisters?
1468. # [17:52] <tn> jlebar, i'm interested in nsImageLoadingContent only right now
1469. # [17:52] <jlebar> tn, nsImageLoadingContent::ClearPendingRequest?
1470. # [17:52] <jlebar> and ClearCurrentRequest
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1472. # [17:54] <Ms2ger> khuey, I'd prefer having it match GetDocument; the other one is already called GetExtantDoc
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1475. # [17:55] <tn> jlebar, ok, thanks
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1478. # [17:56] <jlebar> tn, Sure thing.
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1485. # [18:04] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/c150fce9c39e - Justin Lebar - Bug 773356 - Fix scrolling in enabled textareas in B2G. r=roc
1486. # [18:04] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-beta/rev/8f991bfecae8 - Josh Aas - Back out DOM Java access removal, bug 748343, due to extension compat. a=lsblakk
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1497. # [18:10] <mccr8> edmorley: ping
1498. # [18:10] <edmorley> mccr8: hi :-)
1499. # [18:10] <mccr8> edmorley: did the backout of bug 771666 seem to lower how much bug 778179 was hitting?
1500. # [18:11] <mccr8> or is it still going crazy
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1502. # [18:11] <edmorley> mccr8: I'm pretty sure it lowered it, but I'll look now to check
1503. # [18:12] <mccr8> edmorley: thanks!
1504. # [18:12] <catlee-away> ted: looks like a simple mozconfig change will fix up those ics builds
1505. # [18:12] * catlee-away is now known as catlee
1506. # [18:12] <joshmoz> Anyone know how I can test the latest build of mozilla-release on mobile?
1507. # [18:12] <Ms2ger> Yay, first time I ever used drag&drop in a browser
1508. # [18:13] <joshmoz> I don't see an apk for mozilla-release on the FTP server
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1510. # [18:13] <@ted> catlee: cool
1511. # [18:14] <edmorley> mccr8: yup, has lowered it (eg https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Mozilla-Inbound&jobname=mochitest-other then down arrow a few times, check the orange m-oths in particular
1512. # [18:15] <edmorley> s/orange/linux orange/
1513. # [18:15] * joduinn-coffee is now known as joduinn-commute
1514. # [18:15] <mccr8> edmorley: okay, thanks! I think we have a fix for it for reals, so hopefully that can get reviewed and landed soon.
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1516. # [18:15] <edmorley> mccr8: thank you :-)
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1531. # [18:25] <msucan> robcee: hello! i am waiting for review for orange fix, bug 778597. i'd like to land this with the patch for console.log(object) changes
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1534. # [18:26] <msucan> when you have time, please take a look at that
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1541. # [18:38] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/169186616cd2 - Fabrice Desré - Bug 714299 - Manifest fetched on install shouldn't be cached [r=mayhemer]
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1544. # [18:39] <gps> vlad: pong
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1549. # [18:40] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/a3a94eb254c8 - Terrence Cole - Bug 778383 - Make jstests.py use an options list to pass around extra args; r=dmandelin
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1553. # [18:41] <vlad> gps: I just completely forgot what I was going to ask you
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1555. # [18:41] <gps> RESOLVED WORKSFORME
1556. # [18:41] <vlad> haha :)
1557. # [18:41] <vlad> gps: though -- i'm happy to review mach for an initial landing
1558. # [18:42] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/7eb691b3ef12 - Andrew McCreight - Bug 777806. r=bent
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1560. # [18:42] <vlad> someone like ted would be better, but since it's not going to be required/the only way initially, he can probably just do it as he has time
1561. # [18:42] <Ms2ger> Do it
1562. # [18:42] <gps> ted is busy with real stuff. mach isn't really part of the build system
1563. # [18:42] <gps> I just need *someone* to sign-off on it
1564. # [18:42] <vlad> right
1565. # [18:43] <gps> maybe a build peer looks at the bits that interact with the build system, I dunno
1566. # [18:43] <vlad> yeah, i can do that -- r? :vlad on the relevant bits?
1567. # [18:43] <gps> until it is used on buildbot, nobody should really care
1568. # [18:43] <vlad> exactly
1569. # [18:43] * Ms2ger wants that to be soon, though :)
1570. # [18:43] <vlad> I can sr my way to victory for build system bits too if not too invasive
1571. # [18:43] <gps> anyway, I split the bug into smaller patches
1572. # [18:44] <gps> you can start reviewing the little pieces and I'll check them in as we go
1573. # [18:44] <vlad> yeah, I noticed that; wasn't sure if they all needed to go in together or what (just started looking this morning, and then my laptop got taken away to have its motherboard replaced :)
1574. # [18:44] <gps> they don't need to go in together
1575. # [18:44] <vlad> ok, cool
1576. # [18:45] <gps> so, khuey wasn't thrilled with the name "mozbuild"
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1578. # [18:45] <Ms2ger> Meh
1579. # [18:45] <Ms2ger> Overruling khuey on names is encouraged :)
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1590. # [18:51] * tbsaunde encourages over ruling Ms2ger's names (especially when it's Ms2ger's name ;-)
1591. # [18:52] * Ms2ger throws a fish at tbsaunde
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1599. # [18:54] <capella> can I throw one too? :p
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1617. # [19:07] <froydnj> fix a bug, throw a fish at Ms2ger
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1620. # [19:09] <edmorley> fix an [orange], get to throw one at ms2ger
1621. # [19:09] <edmorley> sounds fair
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1626. # [19:11] * Ms2ger eats said orange
1627. # [19:11] <NeilAway> tbsaunde: I wish I could overrule Ms2ger's name too ;-)
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1634. # [19:16] <Ms2ger> NeilAway, I'd overrule you :)
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1657. # [19:32] <tbsaunde> jlebar: bug 780203 may interest you
1658. # [19:33] * jimm-lunch is now known as jimm
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1667. # [19:38] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/a28c47bf240f - Benjamin Peterson - Bug 778531 - Update Array.prototype.join/toLocaleString to follow ES5. r=jorendorff
1668. # [19:43] <jlebar> tbsaunde, thanks!
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1672. # [19:44] <tbsaunde> jlebar: np :)
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1675. # [19:50] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/aa100b9efcca - Vladimir Vukicevic - b=780213; don't call glDeleteTextures when len == 0 in TextureReaper, because Adreno; r=snorp
1676. # [19:50] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/af61b4b10e3a - Vladimir Vukicevic - b=779936; can't use TextureView without android hardware accelerated windows (S3 bustage); r=snorp
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1685. # [19:55] <kaie_sf> i am in the sf office today. I'd be glad to meet you for chats or questions about ssl, certificates, network security, the nss library, ezc
1686. # [19:55] <kaie_sf> ezc
1687. # [19:55] <kaie_sf> etc
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1689. # [19:56] <Callek> kaie_sf: ooo welcome to sf :-)
1690. # [19:56] * Callek didn't realize you were here today
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1692. # [19:56] <kaie_sf> you are here to? Lets meet!
1693. # [19:56] <sheppy> Yay Kuma!
1694. # [19:56] <jhammel> :)
1695. # [19:57] <jhammel> sheppy: its live then?
1696. # [19:57] <Ms2ger> Yay, MediaWiki
1697. # [19:57] <sheppy> Yes
1698. # [19:57] <sheppy> Live
1699. # [19:58] <jhammel> while 1: Ms2ger--
1700. # [19:58] <sheppy> As of about 30m ago.
1701. # [19:58] <sheppy> jhammel++
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1706. # [20:02] <edmorley> ttaubert: first one post landing :-) https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Fx-Team&jobname=Rev3%20Fedora%2012%20fx-team%20debug%20test%20mochitest-other&rev=163ba68c71cf
1707. # [20:04] * ctalbert|afk is now known as ctalbert
1708. # [20:04] <jlebar> espindola, So...write poisoning. I've never seen this before, and there are no comments that I can find. Is the idea that after writes are poisoned, we should abort (or whatever) whenever we observe a write to disk?
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1711. # [20:06] <espindola> jlebar, almost. That is what should happen on debug builds. Let me find the bug that has the full description
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1713. # [20:07] <espindola> jlebar, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=770605#c6
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1728. # [20:17] <bjacob> jlebar: unconsciously, i had been using wiki.m.o for things that should have gone on MDN... now i'm glad i did, because if I had used MDN, the only "source" for these documents would have been poor HTML
1729. # [20:17] * Joins: jgriffin_ (jgriffin@moz-DD9CBA45.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
1730. # [20:18] <jlebar> bjacob, Maybe that's just what we should do. "It's open source" means "you can fork it".
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1733. # [20:18] * jgriffin_ is now known as jgriffin
1734. # [20:18] <bjacob> jlebar: well, not really. this is mozilla's official documentation site
1735. # [20:18] <bjacob> jlebar: so you'd have to fork all of mozilla :P
1736. # [20:19] <jlebar> bjacob, I don't really buy that. For example, lots of teams use Github, despite Bugzilla being Mozilla's Official Bug Tracker.
1737. # [20:19] * edmorley is now known as edmorley|away
1738. # [20:19] <jlebar> bjacob, They haven't forked all of Mozilla.
1739. # [20:19] <bjacob> jlebar: wiki.m.o works for me just fine, i'll use it more
1740. # [20:20] <bjacob> jlebar: hm, that's true, but that's for code-focused things. Not clear to me that that would have as much luck for documentation
1741. # [20:20] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
1742. # [20:20] <jlebar> bjacob, I don't pretend it would work well.
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1745. # [20:21] <bjacob> jlebar: also, bugzilla is technically superior to github IMO so it's not clear to me what these people are solving
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1747. # [20:22] <jlebar> bjacob, "I don't see it their way" is sheppy's argument. :)
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1750. # [20:24] * devd_afk is now known as devd
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1752. # [20:26] <gwagner> smaug: ping
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1754. # [20:28] <Callek> edmorley|away, sheriff: ping
1755. # [20:29] <Callek> edmorley|away, sheriff: please unhide the B2G ICS Debug builds on all trees where it was hidden ;-) Its now green
1756. # [20:30] * sheppy-pt is now known as sheppy
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1760. # [20:36] * Boriss is now known as Boriss_afk
1761. # [20:36] <@smaug> gwagner: pong
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1764. # [20:36] <dbuc> any one know whether dbaron is around to talk? Im not sure what his nick is
1765. # [20:36] <dbuc> I assume it is dbaron...
1766. # [20:37] <khuey> he's probably commuting right now
1767. # [20:37] * Quits: rniwa (rniwa@moz-E171DA5.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Quit: rniwa)
1768. # [20:37] <jdm> anybody know about getting NSPR logging working in xpcshell tests?
1769. # [20:37] <wlach> jlebar: bjacob: wait, did all the wiki markup on MDN just get blown away? :(
1770. # [20:38] <jlebar> wlach, There was never wiki markup on MDN. It was always HTML.
1771. # [20:38] <gwagner> smaug: hey! looking at how to use dictionaries in JS. do you know of any examples? or how do I create a dictionary in JS?
1772. # [20:38] <wlach> jlebar: ah, ok. was and is I guess?
1773. # [20:38] <jlebar> wlach, was and is.
1774. # [20:38] * Joins: Tyler (chatzilla@moz-967A85FA.hlrn.qwest.net)
1775. # [20:38] <wlach> evidently it's been too long since I've edited MDN
1776. # [20:38] <bjacob> wlach: correct, the new system shares this characteristic
1777. # [20:39] <@smaug> gwagner:{ bubbles: true} is a dictionary
1778. # [20:39] <jaws> catlee-buildduty: ping?
1779. # [20:39] <@smaug> or do you mean how to implement interface which uses dictionaries in JS
1780. # [20:39] <@smaug> that is, AFAIK, not supported
1781. # [20:40] <Callek> jaws: catlee is not as his laptop, anything I can help with?
1782. # [20:40] * Joins: rkd (Adium@moz-7B0110AD.mv.mozilla.com)
1783. # [20:40] <jaws> Callek: can you see if the nightly-ux repo requires lvl 3 access?
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1785. # [20:41] <Callek> jaws: no, that sounds like a good question for #it people (afaik)
1786. # [20:41] <Callek> I could check what it is supposed to be (as could catlee) but not what it currently is ;-)
1787. # [20:41] <gwagner> smaug: yeah how to implement an interface that uses a dict in JS. for the contactFindOptions. right I didn't find anything
1788. # [20:41] * Joins: rkd (Adium@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com)
1789. # [20:41] <gwagner> smaug: ok thx!
1790. # [20:42] <jaws> Callek: ok thanks
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1793. # [20:44] <edmorley|away> Callek: if I unhide now all the broken ones will need starring, which I can't quite face doing across 6-8 trees; I was going to wait until the bug was marked fixed or whatever and use that bugmail to remind me to do it over the weekend
1794. # [20:44] <jaws> Callek: in terms of bug 779419, does your comment mean that i'm good to go with the merge?
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1796. # [20:44] <Callek> jaws: yes it should be perfectly fine
1797. # [20:44] <Callek> jaws: if its not, let us know
1798. # [20:44] <jaws> great, thanks
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1801. # [20:45] <Callek> edmorley|away: ahh thats fine then, I'm just basically saying that all the broken ones are fine (and retriggers of them would go green)
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1804. # [20:47] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/87e7abe891a9 - Benjamin Peterson - Bug 772733 - Implement String.contains. r=sfink
1805. # [20:47] * mdas is now known as mdas|afk
1806. # [20:47] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/6f89406dc763 - Benjamin Peterson - Bug 772733 - Implement String.startsWith/endsWith. r=luke
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1815. # [20:55] <bjacob> jlebar: filed 2 bugs, see thread
1816. # [20:55] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/d6deca9f6666 - Gregory Szorc - Bug 777233 - Add warning module to mozbuild to track compiler warnings; r=vlad
1817. # [20:55] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/da67b46ba82c - Gregory Szorc - Bug 777231 - Add skeleton for mozbuild package; r=vlad
1818. # [20:56] * gregglind_afk is now known as gregglind
1819. # [20:56] <edmorley|away> Callek: unhidden & starred
1820. # [20:57] <Callek> edmorley|away: great, thanks!
1821. # [20:57] <Callek> jhford: CC ^
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1823. # [20:57] <samliu> anyone know where I can find a list of all currently supported CSS properties for firefox?
1824. # [20:58] <Callek> samliu: best location for our list is developer.mozilla.org if that isn't up to date enough for you, next best is mxr.mozilla.org (the code itself)
1825. # [20:59] <samliu> Callek: thanks, it'll have prefixed properties too right?
1826. # [20:59] * nli is now known as nli|afk
1827. # [20:59] <samliu> nm seems like it does, thanks! :D
1828. # [21:00] <Callek> samliu: just remember, prefixed properties *may* get removed from our code at *any* time
1829. # [21:01] * sheeri-afk is now known as sheeri
1830. # [21:01] * Quits: maikmerten (maikmerten@moz-B443B8A0.dynamic.qsc.de) (Quit: Leaving)
1831. # [21:02] <benjamin> edmorley|away: ping
1832. # [21:02] * Quits: wlach (wlach@moz-2899E45A.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout)
1833. # [21:02] <edmorley|away> benjamin: hi :-) (if you're quick, I'd like to avoid microwaving my dinner twice in a row :-))
1834. # [21:03] <benjamin> edmorley|away: did you want to land 722956 or were you going to?
1835. # [21:03] <benjamin> er, replace me in one of those clauses ^
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1837. # [21:03] * jhammel is now known as jhammel|lunch
1838. # [21:04] <edmorley|away> benjamin: ah yes - I'm happy to, I left the bugmail in my inbox to remind me to do it tomorrow
1839. # [21:04] <benjamin> okay
1840. # [21:04] <edmorley|away> benjamin: thank you for checking :-)
1841. # [21:04] <benjamin> have a nice dinner
1842. # [21:04] <edmorley|away> will do, thank you :-D
1843. # [21:04] * mdas|afk is now known as mdas
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1845. # [21:05] <bjacob> jlebar: i feel that technical enough discussion would be better continued on the bugs that I filed, if we dont want this to be forgotten soon!
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1847. # [21:06] * ChanServ sets mode: +o smaug
1848. # [21:06] <jlebar> bjacob, You're probably right. Although I feel like I'm just venting; I do not expect anything to happen here.
1849. # [21:06] <NeilAway> ooh, String.startsWith, I can get rid of all of my calls to .lastIndexOf(foo, 0) now!
1850. # [21:06] <jlebar> bjacob, Sheppy has drawn a line in the sand; doesn't seem interested in this.
1851. # [21:06] <@ted> i should probably use the profiler to find out why switching to my rdio app tab takes so long
1852. # [21:07] <@smaug> awesome, linux kernel panic
1853. # [21:07] <sheppy> jlebar: eh?
1854. # [21:07] * NeilAway wonders what benjamin peterson's nick is so that he can add to his firebot karma
1855. # [21:07] <jlebar> sheppy, I mean, you've made it pretty clear that you're not interested in considering alternative plain-text formats.
1856. # [21:07] <kaie_sf> i just published http://v.gd/nss_highlevel
1857. # [21:07] <@gavin> NeilAway: benjamin
1858. # [21:08] * Joins: erikvold (erikvold@moz-33BF5BAF.gv.shawcable.net)
1859. # [21:08] <sheppy> jlebar: oh, that. To replace HTML and WYSIWYG? No, not really. We had this discussion a long time ago, but people keep bringing it up.
1860. # [21:08] <sheppy> In fact, originally I was overruled and Kuma was going to use markdown syntax.
1861. # [21:08] <sheppy> But the technical problems became overwhelming and the decision was made to use HTML after all.
1862. # [21:08] <jlebar> sheppy, I'd suggest that there may be a reason people keep bringing it up...
1863. # [21:08] <benjamin> NeilAway: hi
1864. # [21:08] * Quits: kdcw (kdc@moz-F7413045.pk.shawcable.net) (Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Nine out of ten l33t h4x0rz prefer it)
1865. # [21:09] <sheppy> jlebar: I understand that, but those people are in a minority, and are, in general, not the people that contribute most of our content. I do feel their pain though (I felt it during the years I had to use MediaWiki to do devmo work).
1866. # [21:09] <jlebar> sheppy, Do you actually know that.
1867. # [21:09] <bjacob> sheppy: the technical problems with switching away from HTML are hard indeed. But that, precisely, is the reason to consider HTML a bad format for the task at hand.
1868. # [21:09] <jlebar> er, ?
1869. # [21:09] <sheppy> We are actually discussing ways to mitigate this though.
1870. # [21:09] <jlebar> sheppy, And moreover, do you know how the population of contributors would change if editing sucked less?
1871. # [21:09] * juanb is now known as juanb|lunch
1872. # [21:09] <@gavin> aw man, not the wiki syntax debates again
1873. # [21:09] <sheppy> jlebar: I dispute this notion that editing sucks at all right now. That's entirely subjective.
1874. # [21:09] <sheppy> gavin: sadly yes.
1875. # [21:10] <sheppy> Apparently launching the new platform brought it up again :)
1876. # [21:10] <jlebar> sheppy, You agree that it sucks for us, right?
1877. # [21:10] <jlebar> sheppy, I feel like you're ignoring the argument.
1878. # [21:10] <sheppy> jlebar: I agree that you're not happy with it.
1879. # [21:10] <NeilAway> benjamin: just noticing that I can now remove my !foo.lastIndexOf(bar, 0) workaround for foo.startsWith(bar)
1880. # [21:10] <jlebar> sheppy, The argument is, if it did not suck for people like me, perhaps people like me would edit mdn.
1881. # [21:10] <sheppy> jlebar: But other people would edit it less.
1882. # [21:10] <jlebar> sheppy, So my argument is, you're saying that "most people who edit MDN now are happy with how it is". And that's not a good reason for staying how it is.
1883. # [21:10] <sheppy> Including the people whose job it is to edit it in the first place. :)
1884. # [21:11] <jlebar> sheppy, Of course most people who edit MDN now are happy how it is.
1885. # [21:11] <sheppy> jlebar: that's a fair point.
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1888. # [21:11] <jlebar> sheppy, I think it keeps coming down to the job issue. "I hate X, I'd quit if we switched to X, therefore we won't do X." That's what I was saying to bjacob earlier, that we're just venting.
1889. # [21:11] <sheppy> We've had this debate in the past though, and the fact remains that most of the people that we talked to preferred a solid HTML-based wysiwyg. The vocal minority (and one consisting mostly of very important potential contributors, I freely admit) dislikes that setup strongly.
1890. # [21:12] <sheppy> jlebar: I understand :)
1891. # [21:12] <jlebar> sheppy, I wish there were some middle ground, that you'd work with us to figure out if we could have a rich-text editor that spits out markdown, for example.
1892. # [21:12] <bjacob> gavin: do you consider using HTML as the _source_ format for a _wiki_ acceptable?
1893. # [21:12] <@gavin> sure
1894. # [21:12] <sheppy> Although I would actually quit if I had to go back to the horror of MediaWiki; I'm not venting when I say that. However, that's not the issue here. If I honestly thought it was the right thing for MDN, I'd totally let that happen and start hunting for a new job.
1895. # [21:13] <jlebar> sheppy, But instead of trying to find that middle ground, you just ignored my whole e-mail, which again makes me think that we're not going to get anywhere by making suggestions, because you're not negotiating.
1896. # [21:13] * Quits: jedp (jed@moz-C03D0C61.vlan426.asr1.sfo1.gblx.net) (Ping timeout)
1897. # [21:13] <jlebar> sheppy, Which is fine, because you own it. You don't /have/ to negotiate.
1898. # [21:13] <sheppy> jlebar: I didn't ignore it; I answered it. I just don't think anyone wants to hear my perspective, so I don't bother to get into it. This is a debate we've had at length several times over the last few years, and it never goes anywhere useful, so why bother?
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1902. # [21:14] <sheppy> jlebar: I don't own it, I'm just one of the biggest contributors, and the team lead. That's not really ownership (no matter that I would clutch it calling it "my precious" if it had physical form). ;)
1903. # [21:14] <bwinton> sheppy: If only you could document it somewhere, to point people at next time… ;)
1904. # [21:14] <sicking> bz: ping
1905. # [21:14] <sheppy> bwinton: haha
1906. # [21:14] <jlebar> lol
1907. # [21:14] <bjacob> sheppy: i would like to hear any reason for why HTML was chosen as source format
1908. # [21:15] <sheppy> bjacob: The primary reason: because it's the format that, in part, we're documenting, which makes it very easy to do examples right inline in the article text.
1909. # [21:15] <gps> I'm going to lunch. if my inbound push causes burnage, just back out and I'll reland later
1910. # [21:15] * Joins: capella (chatzilla@moz-DD0C7E4F.twcny.res.rr.com)
1911. # [21:15] <sheppy> bjacob: And because everyone knows it, unlike markdown or MediaWiki syntax. Yes, those are simple, and easier to pound out than raw HTML, but they're not universally known by web devs, either.
1912. # [21:16] <bjacob> sheppy: sorry, i dont understand that. Surely you can easily include custom HTML in other markup systems (at least you can easily do that in mediawiki)
1913. # [21:16] * Joins: jwilde (Earlybird@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com)
1914. # [21:16] <padenot> and it's a feature of markdown
1915. # [21:16] <sheppy> bjacob: Also, web-based editors spit out HTML, and by using that as our markup language, we don't have to convert back and forth to markdown or whatever.
1916. # [21:16] <sheppy> (at least, the ones we liked do)
1917. # [21:16] <@ted> anyone who's familiar with the profiler want to help me make sense of this profile i collected?
1918. # [21:17] <jlebar> sheppy, Surely if we were really committed to having a decent plain-text experience, we'd figure out how to get a rich-text editor to spit out markdown.
1919. # [21:17] <@gavin> "people know HTML" doesn't seem like a particularly strong argument, it's not like learning the wiki markup syntax is overly difficult given a suitable set of examples
1920. # [21:17] <NeilAway> the new rich-text editor does on the face of it look better than the old one
1921. # [21:17] <bwinton> gavin: You have to admit, there's a nice symmetry in documenting a format in that format…
1922. # [21:17] <NeilAway> although I was disappointed that it doesn't use Gecko's spellchecker
1923. # [21:18] <Ms2ger> Mediawiki, dammit
1924. # [21:18] * Joins: jeremyhu (jeremyhu@moz-75C113CA.outersquare.org)
1925. # [21:18] <@ted> http://people.mozilla.com/~bgirard/cleopatra/?report=6d52d6130cdb2b3259f0c426e4d589b70376c3ab
1926. # [21:18] <bjacob> sheppy: there are WYSIWYG editors producing mediawiki/markdown right away, right? (never looked into that)
1927. # [21:18] <sheppy> jlebar: perhaps, but that was a lot of time we don't have.
1928. # [21:18] <jorendorff> NeilAway: you're mentor for bug 291082? there's someone in #introduction named LinuxPenseur who's interested in working on it
1929. # [21:18] <jlebar> sheppy, Could we agree that should be a goal, then? Would you be happy with that?
1930. # [21:19] <bwinton> jlebar: If you do find one, please let me know. I'm sure Thunderbird would be interested in using it…
1931. # [21:19] * Joins: jammink (textual@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com)
1932. # [21:19] <NeilAway> jorendorff: yes, I can try to assist
1933. # [21:19] <@ted> jrmuizel: so switching to my rdio tab is super slow
1934. # [21:19] <@ted> and that's a profile of it
1935. # [21:19] <bjacob> bwinton: were you replying to me?
1936. # [21:19] <bwinton> bjacob: D'oh. Yes, I think I was.
1937. # [21:19] <jlebar> bwinton, We just wrote an entire wiki platform from scratch. Call me optimistic, but in comparison, writing a rich-text editor does not seem ridiculous.
1938. # [21:20] <sheppy> jlebar: If anyone wants to pursue that, that's fine. That said, it would be a really huge under-the-hood change and at this point I don't know how feasible that is. Especially converting tens of thousands of existing pages without losing the semantics we already have.
1939. # [21:20] <jlebar> bwinton, Or at least, StackOverflow has a real-time preview. I wonder if that would be good enough for Sheppy.
1940. # [21:20] <bjacob> bwinton: a google search found that: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4843649/wysiwyg-edit-with-markdown-output
1941. # [21:20] * Joins: LinuxPenseur (Mibbit@8C74F83.B6268877.1FAF9555.IP)
1942. # [21:20] <NeilAway> LinuxPenseur: hi there
1943. # [21:20] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/ba994bcb9d33 - Siddharth Agarwal - Bug 780241 - pythonpath.py should not be a native command. r=ted over IRC.
1944. # [21:20] <sheppy> jlebar: I know I come off as dismissive on this, and I don't mean to be (I swear!). It's just a discussion that's been done to death so many times I get kind of annoyed when it comes up again. Sorry. :)
1945. # [21:20] <jlebar> sheppy, But don't you understand how annoying it is to hear that?
1946. # [21:21] <bwinton> bjacob: The searching isn't the hard part. The looking into them, and figuring out which one is good (if any) is… :)
1947. # [21:21] <@ted> sheppy: i think the reason it comes up every time is because there are lots of us that aren't happy with the answer
1948. # [21:21] <bjacob> bwinton: sure
1949. # [21:21] <jorendorff> LinuxPenseur: NeilAway is a Firefox hacker. He already commented some in the bug. He'll help you.
1950. # [21:21] <jlebar> sheppy, "This keeps coming up, lots of people are annoyed. But it's not actually problem."
1951. # [21:21] <LinuxPenseur> NeilAway : Hi Neil
1952. # [21:21] <sheppy> jlebar: I do, I know, but it's the truth, and I don't want to lie to you about that. :)
1953. # [21:21] * Quits: gandalf (zbraniecki@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
1954. # [21:21] <jlebar> sheppy, But it's not the truth, it's just what you think, and we keep bringing it up because you're wrong!
1955. # [21:21] <sheppy> jlebar: I know a number of people don't like it, and I understand and sympathize, regardless of how it seems. I just don't think it's realistic to switch the entire system.
1956. # [21:21] <jorendorff> NeilAway: I don't think LinuxPenseur needs specific technical help right away; he's still doing the initial hg clone and building
1957. # [21:22] <sheppy> jlebar: Well, I'm pretty sure you guys are wrong, so there we are again. :)
1958. # [21:22] <jlebar> sheppy, Let's first ignore realistic for a moment and focus on waht we'd like, which we can't even agree on.
1959. # [21:22] <NeilAway> jorendorff: fair enough
1960. # [21:22] * Tyler is now known as Tyler_Lunch
1961. # [21:22] <jlebar> sheppy, You keep switching arguments. First, "HTML is great." Then "No markdown rich-text editor." Now "switching is not realistic."
1962. # [21:22] * Quits: jimb (user@9E727688.17C2F9C.163DC5C6.IP) (Input/output error)
1963. # [21:22] * Joins: sewardj_ (sewardj@moz-D70A1320.dip.t-dialin.net)
1964. # [21:22] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/08dbf37ae570 - Sriram Ramasubramanian - Bug 777358: Large tablet tab new should be added to Makefile.in. [r=mfinkle]
1965. # [21:22] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/d6d2dc5cf815 - Sriram Ramasubramanian - Bug 779322: TabsTray lost its scrolling capabilities. [r=mbrubeck]
1966. # [21:22] <jhammel|lunch> ignoring realism, you would pick how you want to edit a document and you edit in whatever pluggable format you want
1967. # [21:23] <sheppy> jlebar: This isn't switching arguments; this is enumerating a number of reasons why we're doing things the way you want.
1968. # [21:23] <jlebar> sheppy, That's kind of difficult to argue with, if we never get to resolve any point.
1969. # [21:23] <sheppy> er, not doing things the way you want.
1970. # [21:23] <sheppy> Sorry.
1971. # [21:23] <jrmuizel> ted: let me look
1972. # [21:23] * sheppy sighs as he can't type today.
1973. # [21:23] * Quits: capella-SIII (capella-SI@moz-DD0C7E4F.twcny.res.rr.com) (Quit: Yaaic - Yet another Android IRC client - http://www.yaaic.org)
1974. # [21:23] <jlebar> sheppy, Anyway, I think it's a damn shame.
1975. # [21:23] <sheppy> You asked for reasons why it's the way it is, now you're annoyed that I gave you more than one.
1976. # [21:24] * Joins: himsin (x@DBFA170F.3E31E221.BE3C3C1D.IP)
1977. # [21:24] <bjacob> sheppy: bwinton: how do you like Wikipedia's new WYSIWYG editor (they changed it this year) ?
1978. # [21:24] <jlebar> sheppy, No, I'm frustrated because you don't acknowledge when you lose one of the arguments. We established that HTML is not great. We established the existence of rich-text editors. So can we agree that, in principal, we'd like markdown syntax as the backing store, and the primary issue is converting everything to markdown?
1979. # [21:24] <sheppy> bjacob: I have not seen it; the last time I looked at it it sucked.
1980. # [21:24] <sheppy> jlebar: I don't agree that HTML isn't great though, is the thing.
1981. # [21:24] * Joins: capella-SIII (capella-SI@moz-DD0C7E4F.twcny.res.rr.com)
1982. # [21:24] <bwinton> bjacob: I don't like Wikipedia's philosophy, and haven't edited a page on it (that I remember).
1983. # [21:25] <sheppy> I recognize there are rich text editors for MediaWiki or whatever, but last time we looked at them, they were awful at best.
1984. # [21:25] <jlebar> sheppy, I guess I don't even understand why you care, given that you don't use the plain-text editor.
1985. # [21:25] * Joins: wlach (wlach@8A1A94AC.81C579B6.DA78B690.IP)
1986. # [21:25] <sheppy> jlebar: Because I do use it from time to time.
1987. # [21:26] <sheppy> And I prefer working in HTML over the misery of MediaWiki syntax.
1988. # [21:26] * Joins: Mnyromyr (Mnyromyr@B2521176.7B0892CB.771966F7.IP)
1989. # [21:26] * Joins: markg (chatzilla@moz-3CD2F733.dsl.mindspring.com)
1990. # [21:26] <jlebar> sheppy, Anyway, I'm sorry for flaming you. I think it's a real shame that we can't find some common ground here.
1991. # [21:26] <jlebar> sheppy, I think you're missing out on a huge pool of potential contributors.
1992. # [21:26] <sheppy> But the point here is there are still technical issues -- big ones -- we'd have to overcome to switch. We tried once and failed. If it's really feasible, fabulous, I suppose.
1993. # [21:27] * Quits: FabioMagnoni (FabioMagno@BEEAD9F7.6135570D.A8479B91.IP) (Ping timeout)
1994. # [21:27] <jrmuizel> ted: can you reproduce that?
1995. # [21:27] <jlebar> sheppy, I think MDN could be a lot better than it is if you found some way to accommodate this group of people.
1996. # [21:27] <sheppy> jlebar: I know; I really do get this is important to some folks, including yourself.
1997. # [21:27] <jlebar> sheppy, But what do I know?
1998. # [21:27] * Quits: Asa (asa@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com) (Ping timeout)
1999. # [21:27] <jhammel|lunch> jlebar: so, ignoring realism again, if you could edit in mediawiki/markdown/whatever would you care about the backing store?
2000. # [21:27] <sheppy> jlebar: Well, you know this is a big deal to you, and that really does matter. The fact that you have a passion about MDN and want it to be better is awesome.
2001. # [21:28] <jlebar> jhammel|lunch, Inasmuch as the backing store is completely transparent, then I don't care. Just like I don't care if the backing store is gzip'ed.
2002. # [21:28] <bjacob> jhammel|lunch: if i could edit in wiki markup, i'd be happy regardless of internals. I just agree with sheppy that that's very hard to achieve with html storage
2003. # [21:28] <jlebar> jhammel|lunch, But I don't believe that you can do a beautiful lossless translation from HTML <--> markdown.
2004. # [21:28] <sheppy> jlebar: I'd be terrified of just the initial switch from HTML to markdown. :)
2005. # [21:28] * Quits: capella-SIII (capella-SI@moz-DD0C7E4F.twcny.res.rr.com) (Quit: Yaaic - Yet another Android IRC client - http://www.yaaic.org)
2006. # [21:28] <jhammel|lunch> jlebar: no, nor with any other format to any other format
2007. # [21:28] <sheppy> 87,000 pages is a lot of crap to have to hand-repair after a switch, which we'd have to do. :)
2008. # [21:28] <jlebar> jhammel|lunch, Correct.
2009. # [21:28] <@ted> jrmuizel: yup
2010. # [21:29] <bjacob> sheppy: exactly why i'm terrified of using html as source format today
2011. # [21:29] <sheppy> bjacob: why? It's already in HTML, so we don't have to fix it.
2012. # [21:29] <jrmuizel> ted: it is image decdoing
2013. # [21:29] <jhammel|lunch> i *do* think its possible to accept some loss assuming that it was done in a way that didn't kill editing
2014. # [21:29] <@ted> jrmuizel: basically 100% right now clicking on my rdio app tab
2015. # [21:29] <@ted> jrmuizel: noooo
2016. # [21:29] <jrmuizel> ted: can you file a bug
2017. # [21:29] <@ted> okay
2018. # [21:29] <bjacob> sheppy: hard to predict the long term future; and mdn's content is for the long term
2019. # [21:29] * Joins: billm (billm@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com)
2020. # [21:29] <@ted> jrmuizel: thanks for looking!
2021. # [21:29] <sheppy> bjacob: That's true. Seems to me HTML has a fairly guaranteed future. ;)
2022. # [21:29] <jrmuizel> ted: we need to figure out what images are being decoded
2023. # [21:29] <jlebar> jhammel|lunch, If you want decent edit history, it has to at least have the property that f(g(x)) == x.
2024. # [21:29] <@ted> jrmuizel: next time i'm in toronto (end of october) one of you guys are going to teach me to use the profiler
2025. # [21:30] * Quits: kaie_sf (AndChat173@D215B6C9.1A74981.943C3C9C.IP) (Ping timeout)
2026. # [21:30] <jrmuizel> ted: sounds good
2027. # [21:30] <bjacob> sheppy: as a final-form format, sure. As a source-form format, no.
2028. # [21:30] * Joins: kaiecar (AndChat173@D215B6C9.1A74981.943C3C9C.IP)
2029. # [21:30] <sheppy> jlebar: BTW, part of my annoyance here is that this old debate came back up in the middle of my being so excited we launched, and it kind of killed my buzz. :)
2030. # [21:30] <@ted> jrmuizel: core:graphics?
2031. # [21:30] <@ted> or what?
2032. # [21:30] <jrmuizel> ted: core:imagelib
2033. # [21:30] <jlebar> sheppy, If the new wiki solves our reliability problems, I'm quite excited.
2034. # [21:30] * Joins: Asa (asa@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com)
2035. # [21:30] <LinuxPenseur> NeilAway: How should i start with the bug 291082. I do not understand the what the bug is?
2036. # [21:30] <sheppy> jlebar: I think it will. I'm really pleased with it thus far. At least we can fix problems that come up without begging for help.
2037. # [21:31] * Quits: ekr (ekr@moz-992861E0.meeting.ietf.org) (Quit: ekr)
2038. # [21:31] <sheppy> bjacobn/jlebar: I guess it doesn't help that I don't understand not liking to do wysiwyg editing. Kind of like I don't get people that use vim. :D
2039. # [21:32] * sheeri is now known as sheeri-afk
2040. # [21:32] * Quits: Pike (Pike@moz-E31CD2CB.mozilla.org) (Ping timeout)
2041. # [21:32] <khuey> vim users are _people_?
2042. # [21:32] <sheppy> khuey: they claim to be ;)
2043. # [21:32] <jlebar> sheppy, "I don't get why you feel that way" isn't the same as "your feelings don't carry weight in my decisions", though.
2044. # [21:32] <@ted> for nontrivial edits i find WYSIWYG editors infuriating
2045. # [21:32] <jhammel|lunch> khuey++
2046. # [21:32] <bwinton> I'm not a fan of wysiwyg editing, perhaps because I've been burned by it in the past.
2047. # [21:32] * Quits: teoli (teoli@EDB1D55.195E6A26.F1085784.IP) (Quit: L'ordinateur  est en sommeil)
2048. # [21:32] <@ted> i can never get the styles in the right places
2049. # [21:32] <@ted> especially for editing technical documentation it's maddening to me
2050. # [21:32] <bwinton> (And I used vim, but then switched to Sublime Text.)
2051. # [21:33] * Joins: Pike (Pike@moz-E31CD2CB.mozilla.org)
2052. # [21:33] <sheppy> ted: then don't! We follow along behind and clean up anyway.
2053. # [21:33] <@ted> that offends my sensibilities as an engineer
2054. # [21:33] <bjacob> sheppy: fwiw i dont use vim either, because i like the mouse as an input device to e.g. move the cursor. But i dont want to have to use the mouse everytime I enter a link or make a word bold
2055. # [21:33] <sheppy> Every single article gets looked at by at least one, and usually several, people that tidy it up.
2056. # [21:33] <@ted> i am physically unable to comply
2057. # [21:33] <sheppy> bjacob: why not use the keyboard shortcuts to do that stuff?
2058. # [21:33] * Quits: TheOne (TheOne@moz-8C88FCE6.dip.t-dialin.net) (Ping timeout)
2059. # [21:33] <sheppy> They're documented and plentiful.
2060. # [21:33] <@ted> jrmuizel: bug 780244
2061. # [21:33] <bjacob> sheppy: i didn't know about them
2062. # [21:33] <jlebar> sheppy, There are no tooltips for keyboard shortcuts in the rich-text editor.
2063. # [21:33] <jlebar> sheppy, I checked.
2064. # [21:34] <sheppy> jlebar: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Project:MDC_editor_guide#Keyboard_shortcuts
2065. # [21:34] <jrmuizel> ted: thanks
2066. # [21:34] <jlebar> sheppy, Not documented well enough, ti seems.
2067. # [21:34] <@ted> np, thanks for looking
2068. # [21:34] <khuey> are these sheppy's oompah-loompahs?
2069. # [21:34] <sheppy> jlebar: no, there aren't right now; there's a bug for that.
2070. # [21:34] <sheppy> khuey: we call them happy helpful documentation gnomes.
2071. # [21:34] <bjacob> sheppy: thanks, that actually helps
2072. # [21:34] <NeilAway> LinuxPenseur: well, the bug is in two parts
2073. # [21:34] <khuey> sheppy: so yes
2074. # [21:34] <sheppy> The stuff we do most has key shortcuts, and we have bugs filed for a few other things like toggling <pre> etc.
2075. # [21:34] * Joins: bent_ (chatzilla@moz-C3562645.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2076. # [21:34] <LinuxPenseur> NeilAway: ok
2077. # [21:35] * Quits: bent (chatzilla@moz-C3562645.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout)
2078. # [21:35] <NeilAway> LinuxPenseur: the first part is that the code that listens for keypresses doesn't check whether event.preventDefault has been called on the keypress
2079. # [21:35] * bent_ is now known as bent
2080. # [21:35] * Joins: wlach_ (wlach@moz-54AABC1.vif.net)
2081. # [21:35] * Quits: wlach (wlach@8A1A94AC.81C579B6.DA78B690.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
2082. # [21:35] <LinuxPenseur> NeilAway: ok
2083. # [21:35] * Joins: evilpie_ (Mibbit@moz-EDAED23.dip.t-dialin.net)
2084. # [21:35] <bjacob> sheppy: note though that even with keyboard shortcuts, entering a link in MDN is still more keystrokes than in mediawiki syntax
2085. # [21:35] <jrmuizel> ted: can you save the page and upload it someplace?
2086. # [21:35] <bjacob> [ versus Ctrl+K
2087. # [21:35] <sheppy> bjacob: That's true.
2088. # [21:35] <NeilAway> LinuxPenseur: the second part is that the code listens for keypresses before the page gets to call event.preventDefault in certain cases
2089. # [21:36] <sheppy> bjacob: what if we added the ability to type links in MediaWiki syntax and have them automatically converted into HTML links when you save?
2090. # [21:36] <@ted> jrmuizel: i can try, dunno how well that will work
2091. # [21:36] <sheppy> MindTouch let you do that; we could probably add it as well.
2092. # [21:36] <froydnj> jlebar: thanks for chipping in on bug 777122
2093. # [21:37] <bjacob> sheppy: that is exactly the limitet-mediawiki-support that I was asking for (that and a few other common wiki features)
2094. # [21:37] * Quits: tn (tn@moz-2E73ACE4.wp.shawcable.net) (Ping timeout)
2095. # [21:37] <sheppy> bjacob: I will file that bug right now.
2096. # [21:37] <NeilAway> LinuxPenseur: so, the patch V1 fixes most of the first part of the patch
2097. # [21:37] * Quits: Boriss_afk (FlyingToas@moz-62AAA429.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: Boriss_afk)
2098. # [21:37] <jdm> is there some way to get a const pointer in xpidl?
2099. # [21:37] <LinuxPenseur> NeilAway: understood a little. If i could reproduce, that would be more clear
2100. # [21:37] <bjacob> sheppy: likewise, = Foo = for sections, etc
2101. # [21:37] * Joins: ekr (ekr@moz-992861E0.meeting.ietf.org)
2102. # [21:37] * Quits: ekr (ekr@moz-992861E0.meeting.ietf.org) (Quit: ekr)
2103. # [21:38] <jrmuizel> ted: I'd like to see the images on that page
2104. # [21:38] <joe> yeah
2105. # [21:38] * Joins: ekr (ekr@moz-992861E0.meeting.ietf.org)
2106. # [21:38] <@ted> jrmuizel: okay
2107. # [21:39] <bjacob> jdm: note you can define your own pointer typedefs in xpidl
2108. # [21:39] * Quits: ekr (ekr@moz-992861E0.meeting.ietf.org) (Quit: ekr)
2109. # [21:39] <sheppy> bjacob: I will file that bug as well.
2110. # [21:39] <jlebar> froydnj, Sure thing. I hope I found the important bugs.
2111. # [21:39] <@ted> jrmuizel: doesn't quite seem to reproduce on the saved copy
2112. # [21:39] <@ted> but i'll upload it anyway
2113. # [21:40] <bjacob> sheppy: for that to make a positive effect on people's happiness, it should be easily discoverable, like a message "some wiki markup is supported, click here for details"
2114. # [21:40] <@ted> jrmuizel: http://people.mozilla.com/~tmielczarek/1997Rdio_files.zip
2115. # [21:40] <sheppy> bjacob: yes, we would do that.
2116. # [21:40] <sheppy> that makes sense!
2117. # [21:40] <sheppy> (so it's surprising that we'd do it, I guess ;)
2118. # [21:41] * jhammel|lunch is now known as jhammel
2119. # [21:41] * jhammel is now known as jhammel|dinner
2120. # [21:41] <bjacob> sheppy: :)
2121. # [21:41] <cjones> the problem with wsiwyg editors is that there's a tremendous amount of ambiguity when editing rich text, and current wsiwyg editors do a terrible job of helping authors deal with the ambiguity
2122. # [21:41] * jhammel|dinner is now known as jhammel
2123. # [21:41] <sheppy> cjones: examples?
2124. # [21:41] <cjones> plain text removes ambiguity at the cost of less-pretty and more typing
2125. # [21:41] <sheppy> cjones: for what it's worth, we know there are real issues with existing rich text editors, and we are planning to discuss this problem.
2126. # [21:42] <cjones> it's a research problem
2127. # [21:42] <sheppy> cjones: that's true
2128. # [21:42] <cjones> knowing what humans are thinking is hard
2129. # [21:42] * Joins: ahurle1 (ahurle@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com)
2130. # [21:42] <cjones> presenting good UI for dealing with lots of options but prioritizing by context is hard
2131. # [21:42] * ahurle1 is now known as ahurle
2132. # [21:42] * cjones uses latex for that reason
2133. # [21:42] <sheppy> cjones: OTOH, look at it from my perspective: I spend, basically, all day staring at content in editors on MDN. Having to do that with markdown or whatever is not happy-making.
2134. # [21:42] * Joins: Archaeopteryx (itsme@moz-756328DB.cust.telecolumbus.net)
2135. # [21:42] <cjones> i'm not commenting at all on mdn
2136. # [21:42] * jlebar wonders how many developers need to chime in here before sheppy will stop claiming that it's a small, vocal minority.
2137. # [21:42] <sheppy> jlebar: Hehe
2138. # [21:43] <cjones> just on, "why do some people not like wsiwyg editors"
2139. # [21:43] <sheppy> cjones: OK, that's an entirely fair point.
2140. # [21:43] <cjones> although i confess i'm in jlebar's camp, incidentally
2141. # [21:43] <bwinton> jlebar: Well, take the number of hits MDN gets per day, and divide it by some ratio… ;)
2142. # [21:43] <jrmuizel> ted: ok
2143. # [21:43] <sheppy> bwinton: Hehe
2144. # [21:44] <jrmuizel> ted: I have plans to make it obvious which image we're decoding
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2146. # [21:44] <jrmuizel> so we can use that
2147. # [21:44] <@ted> jrmuizel: neat
2148. # [21:45] <NeilAway> LinuxPenseur: sorry, was just trying to write a test case in another window
2149. # [21:45] <LinuxPenseur> NeilAway: ok
2150. # [21:45] * Quits: xsergio (sergio@CD8E2BDD.89CF23BA.B05A4819.IP) (Ping timeout)
2151. # [21:46] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/ccc56082c2e4 - David Zbarsky - Fix virtual dtor warnings, no bug, blanket r=bz
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2157. # [21:49] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/4863aa949575 - Sriram Ramasubramanian - Bug 765079: Text selection in HTML input elements. [r=margaret]
2158. # [21:49] <jdm> firebot: uuid
2159. # [21:49] <firebot> 497bfb9b-d996-4d1e-a647-8137b0cfc876 (/msg firebot cid for CID form)
2160. # [21:50] <NeilAway> LinuxPenseur: so, if you take attachment 648806 as an example, if you tab to one of the selects, you shouldn't be able to use the number keys to change the selection
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2162. # [21:50] <NeilAway> LinuxPenseur: if you apply attachment 599342 to your build, you should find that it prevents you from using the number keys on four out of the six tests
2163. # [21:51] <sheppy> fwiw, we've decided to prioritize some of these MediaWiki syntax type features for our next sprint, to help y'all out a little bit at least.
2164. # [21:51] <sheppy> I know that's only a little mitigation and not a cute. :)
2165. # [21:51] <sheppy> er, cure
2166. # [21:51] <sheppy> But it's a start.
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2171. # [21:53] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/4f774268e674 - Bill McCloskey - Bug 779849 - Fix NPAPI wrapping (r=bholley)
2172. # [21:53] * Quits: ekr (ekr@moz-992861E0.meeting.ietf.org) (Quit: ekr)
2173. # [21:54] <jdm> firebot: uui
2174. # [21:54] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-beta/rev/8971a306e188 - Steven Michaud - Bug 764176 - Cap area of rectangles passed to CUIDraw. r=mstange a=lsblakk
2175. # [21:54] <jdm> firebot: uuid
2176. # [21:54] <firebot> 6d9943df-6564-4326-ac5e-271771cc5639 (/msg firebot cid for CID form)
2177. # [21:54] <firebot> jdm: Sorry, I've no idea what 'uui' might be.
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2179. # [21:54] <bjacob> sheppy: cool. now go celebrate the new release!
2180. # [21:54] <bjacob> (sorry for spoiling it)
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2182. # [21:54] <sheppy> hehe
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2185. # [21:55] * mjschranz is now known as mjschranz_away
2186. # [21:56] <LinuxPenseur> @NeilAway: where is attachment 648806?
2187. # [21:57] * mjschranz_away is now known as mjschranz
2188. # [21:58] <NeilAway> LinuxPenseur: on bug 291082
2189. # [21:59] <NeilAway> LinuxPenseur: I only added it 10 minutes ago, mind, so you might need to reload
2190. # [21:59] <LinuxPenseur> ok
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2196. # [22:02] <jdm> what does it mean in practice for an interface to not be scriptable?
2197. # [22:02] <LinuxPenseur> @NeilAway: The attach\ment 648806 contains the six test?
2198. # [22:03] <jdm> can script still manipulate wrapped objects implementing that interface?
2199. # [22:03] * wlach_ is now known as wlach
2200. # [22:03] <khuey> jdm: yes
2201. # [22:03] <khuey> subject to all the other normal restrictions
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2203. # [22:04] <NeilAway> LinuxPenseur: it contains six select elements, each with a slighty different way of invoking preventDefault
2204. # [22:04] <jdm> khuey: so the practical difference is that XPConnect would complain if I tried to pass a JS object that attempted to implement the interface to C++ code?
2205. # [22:04] <NeilAway> jdm: you wouldn't be able to pass that interface across XPConnect
2206. # [22:04] <jdm> great, thanks
2207. # [22:04] <NeilAway> jdm: it wouldn't even appear in Components.interfaces
2208. # [22:05] <jdm> NeilAway: oh, hmm, that's a problem then
2209. # [22:05] <LinuxPenseur> @NeilAway: Whats wrong with the first element in the 6?
2210. # [22:05] <khuey> jdm: and you can't access any of the methods or properties on that interface
2211. # [22:05] <khuey> jdm: what exactly are you trying to do?
2212. # [22:05] <NeilAway> jdm: compare with the builtinclass annotation which only prevents you from implementing the interface in JS
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2214. # [22:06] <jdm> khuey: I want to restrict my new imagelib notification observer interface to non-script, but nsIImageLoadingContent is scriptable :<
2215. # [22:06] <NeilAway> LinuxPenseur: well, on current trunk, none of the preventDefault calls have any effect on you being able to change the option by pressing the appropriate digit
2216. # [22:06] <jdm> oh, good point about builtinclass
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2218. # [22:06] <jdm> that's probably what I want then
2219. # [22:06] <khuey> yep
2220. # [22:06] <khuey> sounds like it
2221. # [22:07] <LinuxPenseur> @NeilAway: I got it
2222. # [22:07] <jdm> maybe I'll mark the method that takes a void pointer as non-scripted as well
2223. # [22:07] <NeilAway> jdm: I thought xpidl will probably complain if you use a native type without noscript
2224. # [22:07] <jdm> NeilAway: I'll find out!
2225. # [22:08] <NeilAway> LinuxPenseur: if you apply the patchV1 and rebuild, you'll find that four of the cases start preventing you, but two don't
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2227. # [22:09] <LinuxPenseur> NeilAway: ok
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2241. # [22:22] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/21d92e8dd85a - Ben Turner - Bug 780048 - 'Some input stream types cannot be transferred via IPC'. r=khuey.
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2248. # [22:30] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/14245bf85a3d - Bobby Holley - Bug 778420 - Fix up tests that don't like the new enablePrivilege. r=jmaher
2249. # [22:30] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/d5aa53121d29 - Bobby Holley - Bug 778420 - Add Services getter to SpecialPowers. r=jmaher
2250. # [22:30] * Joins: janv_ (varga@moz-81B11050.flarion.as5628.telecom.sk)
2251. # [22:30] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/959cc7ef5f5a - Camilo Viecco - Bug 726053 - Add SpecialPowers instanceof wrapper. r=ted
2252. # [22:30] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/b9f603d3eef4 - William Chen - Bug 778420 - Initial stab at the tests. r=bholley
2253. # [22:30] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/e9bc27234022 - Gijs Kruitbosch - Bug 778420 - Fix test_bug372964. r=bholley
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2265. # [22:36] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/c206e3d4a533 - Ed Morley - Backout 21d92e8dd85a (bug 780048) for bustage
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2277. # [22:45] <jcranmer> espindola: ping
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2285. # [22:48] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/ec210ececc2c - Ben Turner - Bug 780048 - 'Some input stream types cannot be transferred via IPC'. r=khuey.
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2289. # [22:50] <espindola> jcranmer, pong
2290. # [22:50] <bent> edmorley|away, sorry, fixed it
2291. # [22:50] <jcranmer> espindola: https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getParsedLog.php?id=14106881&tree=Try&full=1
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2293. # [22:50] <jcranmer> espindola: do you know how to fix the symbol resolution error in plugin stuff on macs?
2294. # [22:50] <edmorley|away> bent: thank you
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2296. # [22:51] <bent> we can't cancel those builds can we?
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2298. # [22:51] <bent> poor infra
2299. # [22:51] <espindola> jcranmer, I have not once use a plugin on the mac
2300. # [22:52] <espindola> jcranmer, but I think you have to build the plugin as "bundle"
2301. # [22:52] <jcranmer> espindola: how much do you know about symbol resolution?
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2303. # [22:52] <espindola> and the linker actually check that the "bundle loader", i.e, clang, provides the symbols
2304. # [22:52] <espindola> jcranmer, on the plugin/loader case I think I just wrote all that I know :-)
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2310. # [22:58] <espindola> jcranmer, you might be able to get some help with building the plugin on OS X in #llvm
2311. # [22:58] <jcranmer> already tried that
2312. # [23:00] <espindola> ah, missed it, sorry
2313. # [23:01] <edmorley|away> bent: unfortunately not without needing a clobber, which will then be counter-productive (though if it is any consolation, it's normally the testpool that's more overloaded)
2314. # [23:02] <bent> yeah
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2334. # [23:16] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/8d1a0d6f5703 - Mihai Sucan - Bug 778597 - Intermittent browser_webconsole_position_ui.js | Timed out while waiting for: web console position changed to 'window'; r=rcampbell
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2341. # [23:20] <NeilAway> bah, why is it so hard to build Firefox
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2343. # [23:21] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/c2917d3532c8 - John Ford - bug 774215 - package libplugin_child_interpose.dylib on b2g desktop builds r=cjones
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2357. # [23:31] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-beta/rev/e89352978d8a - Benoit Jacob - Bug 749678 - re-add missing MakeCurrent call in certain WebGL uniform setters - r=jgilbert, a=lsblakk
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2360. # [23:34] <bent> dbaron, got a sec?
2361. # [23:34] <@dbaron> bent, sure
2362. # [23:34] <bent> dbaron, hey, my FF is slow as christmas, but not really hanging... i got this in the profiler: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1735482
2363. # [23:35] <bent> dbaron, any idea who i should poke about this?
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2366. # [23:36] <@dbaron> bent, roc, tn, mattwoodrow?
2367. # [23:37] <bent> great, thanks!
2368. # [23:37] <mattwoodrow> interesting, jrmuizel was profiling a similar problem the other day
2369. # [23:38] <bent> mattwoodrow, i see it all the time
2370. # [23:39] <tn> roc's patch in bug 772679 rewrites that code
2371. # [23:39] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/e76632e148d6 - David Zbarsky - Bug 706179 Part 3: Turn on the use of scaling for layers in FrameLayerBuilder r=mattwoodrow
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2374. # [23:40] <bent> interesting
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2386. # [23:49] <bent> tn, mattwoodrow, anything i can provide that might help figure this out?
2387. # [23:50] <@smaug> bdahl: btw, we should propose these printing changes to whatwg
2388. # [23:51] <bdahl> smaug: that's the plan, we wanted to play with it a bit to get a better idea of if its what we need
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2392. # [23:52] <tn> bent, so i assume we get a reasonable number of ScrollTo calls, but the stuff under it takes a relatively long time?
2393. # [23:52] <bent> seems like it
2394. # [23:52] <bdahl> smaug: or would it be better to do that sooner rather than later?
2395. # [23:53] <bent> tn, we're definitely making it back to the event loop
2396. # [23:53] <bent> because the browser is still reponsive
2397. # [23:53] <bent> just slow
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2402. # [23:55] <@smaug> bdahl: well, this stuff is needed for pdf.js, right? so we can land the stuff (after reviews) and post then something to whatwg
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2405. # [23:55] <tn> bent, we could end up walking a lot of frames if the element that is getting scrollLeft set on it is not currently painted.
2406. # [23:55] <@smaug> (I'll try to review asap, but mysteriously my review queue got quite a few new patches today )
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2408. # [23:56] <tn> bent, roc's patch makes us look up the tree instead of down, so it would have completely different behaviour if that was the problem
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2410. # [23:56] <bdahl> smaug: yes, needed for pdf.js. sounds good
2411. # [23:56] <jdm> firebot: uuid
2412. # [23:56] <firebot> 1296bf6c-6067-424b-ba8e-389ec89ee48b (/msg firebot cid for CID form)
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2415. # [23:57] <bent> tn, the other thing is, what could trigger this?
2416. # [23:57] <bent> tn, i'm not actually interacting with the browser
2417. # [23:57] <bent> it's just doing this constantly
2418. # [23:58] <tn> bent, a combination of some script trying to set scrollLeft frequently combined with a large enough frame tree under the element? or maybe we fail to get the layer resolution and that causes the scroll to fail, the script checks the scroll result, see's that it isn't what it wants and tries again
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2421. # Session Close: Sat Aug 04 00:00:04 2012

The end :)