/irc-logs / mozilla / #developers / 2013-02-27 / end

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1. # Session Start: Wed Feb 27 00:00:00 2013
2. # Session Ident: #developers
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4. # [00:00] <@bz> I could also make this a public method and not worry about trying to use friend..
5. # [00:00] * RyanVM is now known as RyanVM|Dinner
6. # [00:00] <BenWa> For people doing mac debugging I just landed http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/2b4e9accde67 which works around the keyboard not working after closing firefox under gdb
7. # [00:01] <RyanVM|Dinner> OK everyone, play nice
8. # [00:01] <@bz> BenWa: awesome!
9. # [00:02] <BenWa> bz: You need to define MOZ_DEBUG so stick that your in bash_profile
10. # [00:02] <markh> does anyone happen to know of an event or some other mechanism I can use to know when bindings for an xbl element are setup?
11. # [00:02] <BenWa> hence why it's a work around
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14. # [00:03] <@bz> BenWa: ah
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17. # [00:03] <@bz> setenv MOZ_DEBUG "Work around mouse event taps; see bug 699538"
18. # [00:04] * @bz assumes that will make things happy
19. # [00:04] <@bz> markh: the binding constructor?
20. # [00:04] <@bz> markh: from outside the binding, no
21. # [00:04] <mjrosenb> bz: setenv? you use {t,}csh?
22. # [00:04] <markh> I *think* I mean "binding" :) We've <binding><content><xul:iframe/></content><binding>. If the element is created, IIUC, the constructor runs, but if the element is hidden, the iframe will be null
23. # [00:04] <markh> I want to know when the iframe is created
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25. # [00:05] <markh> (ie, I believe the ctor will run even though the iframe is null)
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28. # [00:06] * markh better check that...
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30. # [00:07] <BenWa> bz: A few things with events with popups will not behave perfectly but it shouldn't be disturbing but it's not shippable by default
31. # [00:08] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/9718c678cdde - Jim Mathies - Bug 841511 - Cleanup and organize existing browser flyout settings and css. r=fryn
32. # [00:08] <markh> looks like I want the not-yet-implements 'contentgenerated' event
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41. # [00:11] <seth> i wish make mochitest-plain would let me know if i should've used mochitest-chrome
42. # [00:11] * seth dreams of a better world
43. # [00:11] <@gavin> can't you usually tell by the test filename?
44. # [00:12] <seth> gavin: how?
45. # [00:12] <tanvi> maybe you need mochitest-browser-chrome. does it start with browser_
46. # [00:12] <@gavin> xul -> chrome, html -> plain
47. # [00:12] <tanvi> when it starts with browser_….js then it's mochitest-browser-chrome. if its in a chrome directory its chrome.
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49. # [00:13] <seth> well, test_animSVGImage.html needs mochitest-chrome and has none of those attributes.. maybe that is really a bug in itself
50. # [00:13] <tanvi> so i guess if its in a chrome directoyr and not browser_ it is mochitest-chrome
51. # [00:13] <tanvi> gavin - is that right?
52. # [00:14] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/4454f18d71bf - Josh Matthews - Bug 843247 - Allow external links to be opened in private windows in perma-private mode. r=ehsan
53. # [00:14] <seth> sounds like these are conventions (other than the browser_ thing, which the harness enforces, right?) so its possible for there to be mistakes, and that's probably what i'm seeing
54. # [00:14] <tanvi> seth - not sure why https://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/image/test/mochitest/test_animSVGImage.html?force=1 isn't mochitest-plain
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57. # [00:15] <seth> because it's in MOCHITEST_CHROME_FILES in image/test/mochitest/Makefile.in
58. # [00:15] <seth> ah wait
59. # [00:15] <seth> i think you're actually asking _why_ it's marked that way
60. # [00:15] <seth> that i don't know
61. # [00:16] <tanvi> oh, maybe its not a test
62. # [00:16] <tanvi> and it is just a file needed for a test
63. # [00:16] <jlebar> jhford: status-b2g18 is for the non-gecko parts?
64. # [00:16] <tanvi> if a file is needed for a chrome test, does it might be in MOCHITEST_CHROME_FILES
65. # [00:16] <jhford> jlebar: that's how it was explained to me
66. # [00:16] <seth> nah, i'm pretty sure it's a test
67. # [00:17] <jhford> is that not the case?
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69. # [00:17] <tanvi> seth - but i am just guessing here. i don tknow for sure
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71. # [00:17] <jlebar> jhford: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=803688#c13
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73. # [00:17] <jlebar> jhford: for example
74. # [00:17] <seth> tanvi: i don't either. i am certain it's a chrome test. based on what you said above, it should be moved to a chrome directory, right? maybe i should file a bug about that
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76. # [00:17] <seth> tanvi: the two are mixed together in imagelib
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79. # [00:18] <jhford> jlebar: these flags aren't always used the same way by everyone, sadly
80. # [00:18] <jlebar> jhford: Perhaps the distinction is about whether the /bug/ is for gecko or gaia?
81. # [00:19] <jhford> yes
82. # [00:19] <jhford> it's confusing
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86. # [00:19] <jlebar> jhford: Yes. But we agree that Gecko bugs should have their status b2g18 set according to where the gecko parts have landed?
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88. # [00:19] <jlebar> jhford: Maybe you just commented https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=836654#c82 on the wrong bug?
89. # [00:20] * jlebar is so confused
90. # [00:20] <jhford> jlebar: nope, i just did the uplift
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93. # [00:20] <jhford> i set it back to fixed because the uplift fixed it
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95. # [00:21] <jlebar> jhford: But didn't the uplift happen in bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=845001?
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99. # [00:21] <jlebar> jhford: I filed that separate bug because I didn't know how to get an uplift otherwise
100. # [00:22] <jhford> k
101. # [00:22] <jhford> you are right, sorry: https://wiki.mozilla.org/B2G/Triage#Flag_Descriptions
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104. # [00:23] <jhford> so 8143 (845001) was already uplifted by dale but didn't have the flags set correctly or the changesets in the bug
105. # [00:23] <jlebar> ahh
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107. # [00:23] <jlebar> jhford: well, thank you for detangling this
108. # [00:23] <jhford> np
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111. # [00:24] <jlebar> jhford: Should I set the flags as fixed on https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=845001 ?
112. # [00:24] <jhford> jlebar: i'm just about to do that now
113. # [00:24] <jhford> i'll take care of it
114. # [00:24] <jlebar> okay, fantastic.
115. # [00:24] <jlebar> yay
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118. # [00:25] <jhford> oh wait
119. # [00:25] <jhford> nope, it was me :)
120. # [00:25] <jhford> but github lists it as Dale doing it because I'm the commiter not the author
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122. # [00:25] <jhammel> s/commiter/pusher/ ?
123. # [00:26] <jhford> commiter
124. # [00:26] <jhford> it's my commit, but dale's the author
125. # [00:26] <jhford> (of the merge commit which i cherry-picked)
126. # [00:28] <jhford> i don't know of a way to extract pusher information from git, personally
127. # [00:28] <jhammel> i don't know how to do anything with git ;)
128. # [00:29] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/d9d90bf85bcf - Gary Kwong - Bug 845569 - Land tests for various bugs. r=terrence
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133. # [00:32] <jhford> jhammel: don't worry, git's not a version control system. It's a neat filesystem that you could build a vcs on top of
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135. # [00:33] <jhford> you're not missing much :)
136. # [00:33] <jhammel> jhford: how i wish what you said i could believe to be true ;)
137. # [00:33] <jhford> haha
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139. # [00:34] <jhammel> monolithic kernel? practical
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142. # [00:34] <jhammel> monolithic dg + vcs + state machine + ... ? see me after class
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152. # [00:38] <mjrosenb> anyone know what time the mountain view post office closes at?
153. # [00:38] <stuart> google says Hours:
154. # [00:38] <stuart> Tuesday hours 8:30 am–6:00 pm
155. # [00:39] <@ehsan> BenWa: remind me to buy you a drink for bug 699538 when I get back
156. # [00:39] <BenWa> ehsan: I though you were back already. where did you go
157. # [00:39] <@ehsan> BenWa: north carolina
158. # [00:39] <@ehsan> will be back next week
159. # [00:39] <mjrosenb> stuart: google does not give me hours. strange.
160. # [00:40] <BenWa> ehsan: cool, cool. you can buy me a $40 martini :P
161. # [00:40] <@ehsan> BenWa: do you have a preference? :)
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164. # [00:41] <Mossop> Bah, can we switch windows to use symlinks like we do elsewhere
165. # [00:41] <sfink> LinkedIn's feedback form is too short. I only managed to get http://pastebin.mozilla.org/2179085 into it, and that's with a ton of ambiguous 'it's.
166. # [00:41] <BenWa> ehsan: jk of course
167. # [00:42] <@ehsan> BenWa: yeah I know ;)
168. # [00:42] <BenWa> ehsan: http://www.barcheftoronto.com/ works though
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173. # [00:46] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/cacfde64decd - Sriram Ramasubramanian - Bug 843619: Remove tabs tray menu. [r=mfinkle] [needs-clobber]
174. # [00:46] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/0db8acdceffa - Sriram Ramasubramanian - Bug 843619: Remove robocop test for tabs tray menu button. [r=gbrown]
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177. # [00:47] <tanvi> seth - sorry i disappeared. so imagelib doesn't have a separate chroem directory. they just put it all in /test and separate the makefile into two parts. makes sense. i will look out for that in the future
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180. # [00:49] <@ehsan> BenWa: ok now you're getting greedy!
181. # [00:49] <@ehsan> BenWa: I'll make an espresso shot for you :P
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183. # [00:49] <BenWa> I'll take what I can get
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190. # [00:51] <Mossop> tanvi: I think I'm missing something. In the browser in the add-ons manager what of the mixed content blocker code causes clicking an insecure link in a secure page to fail?
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192. # [00:52] <seth> tanvi: yeah, i think it couldn't hurt to separate
193. # [00:52] <seth> the two types of tests, that is
194. # [00:52] <seth> might file a bug about it
195. # [00:52] <tanvi> cool
196. # [00:52] <tanvi> Mossop - just a sec
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199. # [00:53] <jhammel> BenWa: fwiw, i would also have declined a site with a flash-only front page :P
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202. # [00:53] <tanvi> Mossop - the link is in an iframe, so it is TYPE_SUBDOCUMENT. http iframes within https pages are blocked by Mixed Content Blocker
203. # [00:53] <tanvi> http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/content/base/src/nsMixedContentBlocker.cpp#254
204. # [00:55] <tanvi> Mossop - if the pref is set to true (mixed content is blocked), the addon test will go through this code when the inseucre link is clicked - http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/content/base/src/nsMixedContentBlocker.cpp#407
205. # [00:55] <tanvi> allowMixedContent = false
206. # [00:55] <Mossop> What makes it an iframe?
207. # [00:56] <tanvi> Mossop - i'm not sure. when i ran it through gdb, i saw that it had content type 7 for type_subdocument. the page wouldn't stay open long enoguh for me to inspect the js and understand what the test was doing
208. # [00:56] * Mossop assumes that is in the content policy code
209. # [00:56] <tanvi> i tried adding a sleep, but that just hangs everyrthing
210. # [00:56] <Mossop> I think that's the bug, we shouldn't be calling this a subdocument load
211. # [00:56] <tanvi> the content type is set before the content policy code is called. the content policy code takes the content type as a parameter
212. # [00:56] * Mossop goes digging
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235. # [01:02] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/eea25ab998eb - Ehsan Akhgari - Bug 839912 - Implement the URLUtils interface; r=Ms2ger
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244. # [01:05] <bdahl> gavin: ping
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251. # [01:05] <@gavin> bdahl: in a meeting, will be available in a few minutes
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255. # [01:08] <Mossop> tanvi: Is it expected for normal browsing that an attempt to load insecure content in an inner frame will show the doorhanger?
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259. # [01:08] <tanvi> Mossop - yes
260. # [01:09] <Mossop> tanvi: Are there tests that verify that that I can look at?
261. # [01:09] <tanvi> Mossop - when security.mixed_content.block_active_content is set to true, then the http iframe will be blocked and the user will see a sheild next to the address bar.
262. # [01:09] <tanvi> Mossop - sure
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264. # [01:09] <tanvi> Mossop - this is the test for the dorrhanger - https://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/browser/base/content/test/browser_bug822367.js
265. # [01:10] <tanvi> Mossop - it is a mochitest browser chrome test that "clicks" the Disable Protection button by default.
266. # [01:10] <tanvi> Mossop - oh, you mean test cases?
267. # [01:10] <tanvi> https://people.mozilla.com/~tvyas/mixedcontent.html
268. # [01:10] <Mossop> tanvi: No automated tests are good, I'm interested to know how you detect when the inner-frame load was blocked
269. # [01:11] <tanvi> https://people.mozilla.com/~tvyas/mixediframe2.html
270. # [01:11] <tanvi> Mossop - hmmm
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277. # [01:14] <tanvi> Mossop - this test tests different content types https://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/content/base/test/test_mixed_content_blocker.html?force=1
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280. # [01:14] <tanvi> there is a test for mixed iframe with the different prefs set
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282. # [01:15] <Mossop> Ok, thanks
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293. # [01:25] <gw280> what's this SM(r) test on try?
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312. # [01:37] <dholbert> gw280, it's ignorable (been there & perma-orange for a while), though I don't know more than that
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314. # [01:37] <dholbert> I suspect it's hidden on m-c; don't know why it's not on try as well
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316. # [01:40] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/7731263e33fe - Bobby Holley - Bug 845201 - Pass mayThrow=true to iterate. r=mrbkap
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319. # [01:43] <@gavin> bdahl: pong
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324. # [01:45] <bdahl> gavin: it appears when you do right click -> save as on a pdf in an iframe the the document that gets sent to the pdfjssaveas callback is the surrounding document
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328. # [01:46] <bdahl> gavin: how would we like save as to work for iframes?
329. # [01:46] <@gavin> bdahl: are you sure? http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/browser/base/content/nsContextMenu.js#958 seems to pass in the iframe document properly...
330. # [01:47] <@gavin> bdahl: oh, though you need to use "This Frame->Save as"
331. # [01:47] <@gavin> bdahl: indeed we also show the "global" save as in that case
332. # [01:47] <gw280> dholbert: ok, that's all I wanted to know
333. # [01:47] <@gavin> that's confusing
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336. # [01:48] <Waldo> |char const *const ** aCodecList| is quite the parameter type
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339. # [01:48] <@dolske> gavin: well, if the user doesn't realize they happen to have clicked in some iframe, then it makes sense.
340. # [01:48] <@gavin> dolske: true
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342. # [01:48] <jgilbert_> Waldo: fun
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344. # [01:48] <bdahl> users know what frames are? :)
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347. # [01:49] <@dolske> bdahl: consider clicking in some unmarked corner of a facebook comment iframe on a site, expecting that Save As will save the page.
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350. # [01:50] <mbrubeck> Yeah, the majority of iframes I see these days are invisible implementation details that users have no way of expecting
351. # [01:51] * jcranmer|away is now known as jcranmer
352. # [01:51] * Waldo has a feeling that might be better using some other type, maybe
353. # [01:51] <@dolske> I could see an argument for special-casing PDF in an iframe, though, since we "know" (super handwavy here!) that the user wants to act on the PDF.
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355. # [01:52] <@dolske> anyway, drive-by comment. :)
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357. # [01:54] <bdahl> gavin: so for this fix should i just leave the global save as alone and let it save the whole page?
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359. # [01:55] <@gavin> bdahl: yeah, I guess so
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361. # [01:55] <@gavin> maintain the status quo
362. # [01:59] * sheeri is now known as sheeri-afk
363. # [02:00] <@dolske> keep calm and maintain the status quo.
364. # [02:01] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/6562cc879c53 - Chris Peterson - Bug 845080 - Extract BackgroundService superclass. r=rnewman
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368. # [02:05] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/c39c03b6a256 - Luke Wagner - Bug 845458 - IonMonkey: simplify constant double handling on x86 (r=dvander)
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373. # [02:09] <RyanVM|Dinner> oh boy, only 86 unstarred
374. # [02:09] * RyanVM|Dinner is now known as RyanVM
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382. # [02:15] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/0046a607a915 - Sriram Ramasubramanian - Bug 816547: Make sure the Bitmap is accessed in UI thread in LWTheme. [r=mfinkle]
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394. # [02:24] <RyanVM> cpeterson: inbound bustage
395. # [02:24] <cpeterson> RyanVM: oops, thanks. I'll back it out
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397. # [02:25] <RyanVM> you'll need a CLOSED TREE in the commit message
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399. # [02:26] <nalexander> cpeterson: well that's weird.
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401. # [02:26] <cpeterson> nalexander: I mistakenly copied the changed files, not just my diffs. So unrelated changes rode along for the ride. :\
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405. # [02:27] <nalexander> cpeterson: oops :)
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408. # [02:27] <cpeterson> nalexnader: what is your preferred method for transplanting android-sync changes from git to m-c?
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410. # [02:28] <nalexander> cpeterson: we have ./android-sync/fennec-{code-drop,copy-code}.sh. They're due for an overhaul, which I am working on right now.
411. # [02:28] <cpeterson> nalexander: ah, thanks
412. # [02:28] <nalexander> cpeterson: I spent a lot of today trying to figure out how to untangle some existing mozbuild packaging code, which didn't go very well.
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414. # [02:30] <RyanVM> cpeterson: i'll back you out
415. # [02:30] <RyanVM> i'm going to have to back something else out anyway
416. # [02:30] <cpeterson> RyanVM: if you like. I have a local backout, but I'm rebuilding just to double-check <:)
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422. # [02:33] <bz_away> RyanVM: fun day, eh?
423. # [02:33] * bz_away was going to reland this thing that was red earlier.... ;)
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425. # [02:33] <RyanVM> bz_away: every day's fun around here
426. # [02:33] <RyanVM> after yesterday's 4 hr closure, we're doing good today!
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430. # [02:34] <bz_away> heh
431. # [02:34] * bz_away is now known as bz
432. # [02:34] <tbsaunde> bz_away: so, turns out the range test failure doesn't reproduce for me either, so I'm pushing to try again hoping it magically went away or was some other patches fault or something
433. # [02:34] <bz> tbsaunde: sounds good. ;)
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435. # [02:34] <bz> tbsaunde: alternately, might need more tests run...
436. # [02:35] <bz> tbsaunde: not just that one
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439. # [02:36] <RyanVM> bz: I wouldn't count on landing any time soon
440. # [02:36] * ewong|afk is now known as ewong
441. # [02:36] <nalexander> cpeterson: can you ping me when you reland that? I have stuff based on top of it waiting to land (that is not urgent).
442. # [02:36] <tbsaunde> bz: I've been trying with all of dom/imptests/ but tests in gdb is sloooow
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444. # [02:37] <RyanVM> I need to track down the osx b-c issues with retriggers, then backout and get confirmation that we're good
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446. # [02:37] <cpeterson> nalexander: will do
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459. # [02:42] <wg9s> Just my opinion, but we should have more process around inbound clsures.
460. # [02:43] <wg9s> There really should bre a bug to track what is going on and the bug needs to be referenced in the closure message. Just my opion, I could be wrong.
461. # [02:43] <wg9s> s/opion/opinion/
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464. # [02:45] <wg9s> Once again, just my opinion, but a tree closure message without a bug number is not a valid tree closure.
465. # [02:45] <RyanVM> wg9s: feel free to file
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468. # [02:47] <RyanVM> the issue is rampant osx 10.8 b-c leaks (plenty unstarred), osx 10.8 debug b-c failures (also plenty), and bustage that I have a backout ready to push
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470. # [02:48] <wg9s> RyanVM: not to give you a hard time, but whoever closed the tree should (which I take it may have been you) in my opinion should have filed a bug on the issue and referenced the bug in the tree closure message. Kind of the we are supposed to be doing things in the open for people to follow along idea.
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473. # [02:49] <RyanVM> well, I've doing this for 13 hours today, came back from dinner to 90 unstarred failures, and more
474. # [02:49] <RyanVM> take it or leave it
475. # [02:49] <wg9s> I understand.
476. # [02:50] <wg9s> It was actually the tree closure yesterday and not this one that prompted the comment I should have said something then.
477. # [02:50] <RyanVM> tell people to stop crapping all over the tree and we won't have this problem
478. # [02:51] <wg9s> because it was hard to follow why the tree was closed because the tests with the failures were not showing up on tbpl.
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480. # [02:52] <dholbert> wg9s, why do you think each tree closure merits a bug?
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482. # [02:53] <wg9s> RyanVM: I think a lot of the issue is the check-in rules on inbound that say pay no attention to tree status cause if there is an issue you checkin wont work and you don't have to watch the tree. Maybe makes sense if you actually did a valid try checkin first, but most people seem to not.
483. # [02:53] <wg9s> dholbert:because the whole idea of inbound on the wiki says there will not be closures.
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485. # [02:53] <dholbert> um... I don't remember that being part of the idea
486. # [02:53] <RyanVM> if the wiki seriously says that, it should be changed
487. # [02:54] <RyanVM> that's nuts
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491. # [02:54] <dholbert> wg9s, generally when the tree's closed, there's a tree-closure message of "bustage", plus subsequently-starred red builds that say "fixed in cset 123abc". I'd think that conveys enough information to explain why the tree was closed & what fixed it
492. # [02:55] <wg9s> It says there will not be long clsures becuase any change causing an issue will be immediatlely backed out by the sherrif.
493. # [02:55] <dholbert> no sense in adding another layer of overhead on top of starring / investigating / posting on the bug that busted stuff
494. # [02:55] <dholbert> wg9s, in practice, we don't have long closures
495. # [02:56] <dholbert> wg9s, so I don't see what you're concerned about
496. # [02:56] <RyanVM> define "immediate" in a world of coalescing and overtaxed build infrastructure
497. # [02:56] <sfink> the tree rules were written in an idyllic time of substantially less infrastructure overload
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499. # [02:56] <RyanVM> we do back things out immediately once we know what broke things
500. # [02:57] <dholbert> (and/or land bustage fixes, if trivial)
501. # [02:57] <dholbert> it just takes time to figure out what broke stuff
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503. # [02:57] <wg9s> Exactly, but if we don't know what broke things and it is colsed for a long time (like yesterday) eitehre a bug or a pointer to an irc channel where things are being worked would be helpful in the closure message.
504. # [02:58] <@dolske> Anyone checking in should know about #developers.
505. # [02:59] <dholbert> wg9s, would "Ask in #developers for more info." on the end of every tree-closure message make you happy?
506. # [03:00] <dholbert> (not that I'm suggesting we actually add that -- I think that's already implicit. :))
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509. # [03:02] <@khuey> what's #developers?
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515. # [03:06] <dholbert> wg9s, In all seriousness, I do see where you're coming from -- it'd be kind of cool if every tree-closure got its own dedicated spot for diagnosis/resolution, and that was linked from the TBPL closure message when the tree was closed. heck, maybe tree-closing could even auto-file a bug for you or something
516. # [03:06] <dholbert> wg9s, but in practice, when stuff's busted, people want to spend energy on un-busting it, and filing bugs just for process's sake is overhead that takes time away from un-busting things
517. # [03:07] <dholbert> (sorry, I phrased that kind of confusingly, but I think it makes sense)
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523. # [03:10] <wg9s> dholbert: But it would be better if there were a more comprehensive explanation of what is trying to be fixed, so that others might be able to help. It is difficult to figure out what is really broken form a cryptic fits in tbpl closure comment, nor is there anyway to figure out who is working the issue to try to coordinate efforts.
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526. # [03:11] <dholbert> wg9s, often when we close the tree, we're not entirely sure what's broken
527. # [03:11] <dholbert> wg9s, that's part of the investigation process
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530. # [03:12] <dholbert> wg9s, also, usually it's pretty clear what's broken if you just look at the message + TBPL...
531. # [03:12] <dholbert> and if it's not, then again: #developers! :)
532. # [03:13] <wg9s> dholbert:was not yesterday because the orange tests were not running and had fallen off the bottom of what was being shown.
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534. # [03:14] <dholbert> I don't know the details, but that sounds like a rare situation for a tree-closure, and not worth imposing overhead on all tree-closures just in case that happens
535. # [03:14] <dholbert> and again: #developers :)
536. # [03:14] <wg9s> and did not help that the closure comment said mochi-tests when they were in fact reftests.
537. # [03:15] <dholbert> wg9s, I fail to see how this is something worth imposing additional overhead to solve
538. # [03:15] <wg9s> but no one in #developers seemed to know or care.
539. # [03:15] <dholbert> anyway, I have to go
540. # [03:15] * dholbert is now known as dholbert|afk
541. # [03:15] <wg9s> was eventually discoussed in #releng
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543. # [03:15] <RyanVM> bz: fwiw, I'm suspected avih right now :(
544. # [03:15] <avih> RyanVM: don't point any fingers at me! ;)
545. # [03:16] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/eb562a97db7c - Joshua Gaines - Bug 816281 - Add "avant-garde" to the en-US dictionary; r=ehsan
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548. # [03:16] <RyanVM> avih: we'll see, I've got retriggers going
549. # [03:16] <avih> i suspect i'm responsible for the tscroll regression, but the reason is bad test, not real regression. can't tell about the others though.
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553. # [03:17] <avih> RyanVM: ^ see https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=590422#c42
554. # [03:18] * ctalbert is now known as ctalbert|afk
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556. # [03:18] <avih> RyanVM: but you could take the rest ;)
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558. # [03:19] <avih> RyanVM: gtg now. where will i see the new results which you just triggered?
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560. # [03:20] <cpeterson> RyanVM: I have my Android backout (bug 845080) ready to land. Do you still want to back it out yourself?
561. # [03:21] <RyanVM> avih: on your push on tbpl
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563. # [03:21] <RyanVM> cpeterson: it's in my queue
564. # [03:21] <RyanVM> i'll push it with whatever I end up backing out for the osx issues
565. # [03:22] <cpeterson> RyanVM: ok. Thanks for all your help! sorry! <:)
566. # [03:22] <RyanVM> it happens
567. # [03:22] <avih> RyanVM: this? https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Mozilla-Inbound&rev=00ed3d264438
568. # [03:23] <RyanVM> avih: yes, note the bold osx 10.8 bc jobs
569. # [03:24] <RyanVM> basically, something that landed around the time your patch landed made an intermittent orange basically permanent
570. # [03:24] <avih> hmm..
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572. # [03:26] <RyanVM> avih: those are the worst, because even if you hit it on Try, you probably would have just assumed you'd hit the intermittent failure
573. # [03:26] <avih> RyanVM: btw, how do you retrigger multiple runs of the same test? when one of the tests was running and i clicked "+", it restarted it. only when it was over and i clicked + it ran another run
574. # [03:27] <RyanVM> you can retrigger multiple instances as soon as the test starts running
575. # [03:27] <RyanVM> just click the + multiple times
576. # [03:27] <RyanVM> or hit "rebuild" in self-serve
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578. # [03:27] * seth wishes you could trigger multiple instances _before_ the test started running
579. # [03:27] <avih> hmm.. i'll try that again. iirc it didn't work for me, but maybe i just did something wrong
580. # [03:27] <RyanVM> since in your case, the 10.8 opt bc was coalesced out
581. # [03:28] <RyanVM> seth: me too
582. # [03:28] <RyanVM> but IIUC, it needs a buildbot job ID first, which doesn't get assigned until the test starts running
583. # [03:29] <seth> we can dream...
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585. # [03:30] <avih> well, while it's not impossible that the change i pushed caused real failures, i suspect it might have affected some tests which depend (badly) on timing. the patch makes the timer much more accurate, by removing an "averaging filter", which usually makes the timer actually less accurate.
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590. # [03:31] <avih> anyway, gtg now. will look at the results tomorrow.
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606. # [03:41] <RyanVM> avih: not looking good for you :(
607. # [03:41] <RyanVM> ttyl
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616. # [03:47] * njn is amused that the best way to search for a bug in Bugzilla is to file a new one and let the duplicate matching search find
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618. # [03:48] <mjrosenb> njn: that really shouldn't be the case :(
619. # [03:48] <mjrosenb> njn: usually, I go into a relevant channel, and ask if they have seen anything similar.
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621. # [03:48] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/80942ec06b47 - Ryan VanderMeulen - Backed out changeset 6562cc879c53 (bug 845080) for Android build bustage on a CLOSED TREE.
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630. # [03:55] <@dbaron> RyanVM, I'm presuming the CLOSED is for the perma-838069 on Mac OS X 10.8 opt?
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632. # [03:56] <@dbaron> RyanVM, except it's not quite perma
633. # [03:56] <RyanVM> and similar on 10.8 debug b-c
634. # [03:56] <@dbaron> RyanVM, I don't see any on 10.8 debug b-c in the last 10 pushes or so
635. # [03:57] <RyanVM> because they were starred already
636. # [03:57] <@dbaron> Ryan, even starred
637. # [03:57] <@dbaron> RyanVM, I'll go back further in https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Mozilla-Inbound&jobname=Mountain.*browser-chrome though
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640. # [03:57] <RyanVM> jdm's push shows it
641. # [03:58] <RyanVM> dbaron: anyway, pretty sure it was avih's push that turned it perma
642. # [03:58] * Quits: jgilbert_ (jgilbert@183697E.FEF91D35.59163313.IP) (Ping timeout)
643. # [03:58] <RyanVM> just waiting on the retriggers from the push prior
644. # [03:59] * @dbaron thinks the debug stuff looks different, but maybe not
645. # [03:59] <RyanVM> dunno, looks like it started around the same time
646. # [03:59] <RyanVM> but with coalescing, it's hard to say without a lot more retriggers
647. # [03:59] <RyanVM> i figure once I get this backout pushed, we'll get a chance to trigger more jobs and see where things stand
648. # [03:59] <RyanVM> thankfully osx comes in first anyway
649. # [04:00] <@dbaron> RyanVM, I think the other two patches before are isolated enough that you should backout, if you're comfortable with the 3-push range
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651. # [04:01] <@dbaron> RyanVM, I'd say it's changes to timers >99% chance, changes deep in WebRTC signaling code <1% chance
652. # [04:02] <RyanVM> btw, win7 debug m-oth hasn't seen a green run in ages
653. # [04:02] * Quits: sworkman (sworkman@moz-825EC923.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: sworkman)
654. # [04:03] <@khuey> good thing none of our users are on win 7
655. # [04:03] <@khuey> oh, wait
656. # [04:03] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/4ee88e30412b - Ryan VanderMeulen - Backed out changeset 00ed3d264438 (bug 590422) for OSX browser-chrome failures on a CLOSED TREE.
657. # [04:03] <derf> khuey: BTW, sorry about that prefs off-main-thread thing.
658. # [04:03] <derf> I actually knew that, but forgot about it while reviewing.
659. # [04:04] <@khuey> derf: :-P
660. # [04:04] <@khuey> no worries
661. # [04:04] <Callek> derf: don't worry, we'll just bill you for the machines AWS time :-P
662. # [04:04] <@dbaron> RyanVM, the Win7 moth is mostly the a11y leaks, though the chrome failure isn't uncommon
663. # [04:04] <@khuey> telemetry is still stopping me from adding assertions
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667. # [04:04] <RyanVM> dbaron: i'm going to hold off on starring the 10.8 debug failures until we see what this backout did for them
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669. # [04:05] * Neil_ is now known as NeilAway
670. # [04:05] <@dbaron> the mochitest-a11y regression window looks pretty stark
671. # [04:06] * Joins: Jesse (jruderman@moz-537BCF9.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
672. # [04:06] <@dbaron> oh, but there were 2 green runs and then more orange ones
673. # [04:07] <tbsaunde> dbaron: :( I'd actually sort of like some poor patch to turn those perma so debugging would be possible
674. # [04:07] * Joins: pcwalton (pcwalton@moz-481A040C.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
675. # [04:07] <RyanVM> it nearly is at this point :)
676. # [04:07] <@dbaron> tbsaunde, pull a tree :-P
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678. # [04:08] <@dbaron> I think https://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/729d41f6743b looks suspicious for the a11y leaks
679. # [04:08] <tbsaunde> oh, hm, guess I will, I guess I haven't actually run it in a while been busy with other stuff
680. # [04:10] * Parts: pcwalton (pcwalton@moz-481A040C.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
681. # [04:10] <RyanVM> dbaron: i just retriggered some m-oth runs on that push and the one prior
682. # [04:10] <RyanVM> I won't be awake when they're done, but if you don't mind watching the results, tha twould be cool
683. # [04:11] <RyanVM> dbaron: I pinged jst in bug 833769 today looking for some guidance as to how to get somebody looking at that one
684. # [04:12] <RyanVM> it's our top non-android orange and I can't find an owner for it
685. # [04:12] <@dbaron> RyanVM, actually... there were ~3 greens and then a bunch more
686. # [04:13] <@dbaron> now my TBPL is back far enough that it's getting too slow
687. # [04:13] <RyanVM> welcome to every day for me :) :P
688. # [04:13] <@dbaron> I wish TBPL weren't such a memory hog
689. # [04:13] <@dbaron> my version of TBPL-on-buildbot was *much* lighter
690. # [04:13] <@dbaron> back when TBPL was on tinderbox
691. # [04:13] <RyanVM> I think tbpl2 will be a better
692. # [04:14] <@dbaron> but nobody else seemed to like my approach
693. # [04:15] * Quits: dew (Instantbir@moz-EBC2DF0B.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) (Connection reset by peer)
694. # [04:15] <RyanVM> ttaubert: ping
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696. # [04:16] * Joins: victorporof (victorporo@1CF03390.183F338A.6A4F8DA2.IP)
697. # [04:16] <@dbaron> RyanVM, I wish we had records of when it was starred...
698. # [04:17] <RyanVM> what do mean?
699. # [04:17] <RyanVM> the comment is timestamped as is the bug comment
700. # [04:17] <Callek> RyanVM: pretty soon I'm going to auto-ignore anyone that says TBPLv2/tbpl2 twice in the same day
701. # [04:17] <Callek> RyanVM: you have been warned
702. # [04:17] <@dbaron> RyanVM, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=828233 doesn't have records
703. # [04:17] <RyanVM> dbaron: orangefactor
704. # [04:17] * Joins: fabrice (fabrice@moz-94F028C6.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
705. # [04:17] <Callek> (its beginning to sound too mythical)
706. # [04:18] <@dbaron> RyanVM, oh, it searches stars now?
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709. # [04:18] <RyanVM> tbpl reports directly into it
710. # [04:18] <@dbaron> RyanVM, even if you type in a bug number rather than selecting one?
711. # [04:18] <RyanVM> Callek: it's the new hotness
712. # [04:18] <RyanVM> yes
713. # [04:18] <@dbaron> RyanVM, I don't think that used to be the case, no?
714. # [04:18] <@khuey> it did not
715. # [04:18] <@khuey> that's a change
716. # [04:18] * Quits: victorporof (victorporo@1CF03390.183F338A.6A4F8DA2.IP) (Ping timeout)
717. # [04:19] * Joins: jgilbert_ (jgilbert@moz-EA765158.midsouth.biz.rr.com)
718. # [04:19] <@dbaron> anyway, off to dinner
719. # [04:19] <Callek> RyanVM: its not the new hotness until its written
720. # [04:19] <RyanVM> http://brasstacks.mozilla.com/orangefactor/?display=Bug&bugid=828233&startday=2013-02-19&endday=2013-02-26&tree=trunk
721. # [04:19] <RyanVM> obviously hasn't picked up today's festivities yet
722. # [04:20] <RyanVM> Callek: hush you, and have some more koolaid
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724. # [04:20] <Callek> RyanVM: I've graduated to apple juice
725. # [04:20] <RyanVM> ttaubert: so merge fx-team with a perma-orange, go home apparently
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736. # [04:24] <jesup|mac> khuey: I have a refactor of the MediaManager prefs stuff ready to test. Probably be up for review tonight
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738. # [04:25] <@khuey> woo
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746. # [04:27] <RyanVM> i guess I'll just disable the test on m-c for now
747. # [04:29] * rail_away is now known as rail
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754. # [04:32] * Neil is now known as NeilAway
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757. # [04:33] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/e7632ab657e5 - Ryan VanderMeulen - Bug 807234 - Temporarily disable the test on a CLOSED TREE. r=orange
758. # [04:34] * rnewman shakes fist at cpeterson for not landing correctly
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764. # [04:42] <RyanVM> dbaron: i'm actually thinking Yoric's patch could be responsible for the win debug m-oth orange
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772. # [04:49] <Jesse> bz: so servo needs to support document.domain but not plugins? how about adoptNode? i'm not sure i understand the criteria
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777. # [04:51] <@roc> anyone know of a way to do "Save as ... complete" in Fennec?
778. # [04:51] * @roc is trying to debug duckduckgo but it serves something completely different to Fennec vs desktop
779. # [04:51] * philor|away is now known as philor
780. # [04:51] * Joins: JeroenDeDauw (j@moz-26D281BF.dip.t-dialin.net)
781. # [04:51] <@khuey> just fake the Fennec UA on desktop?
782. # [04:51] <@khuey> or is it more involved?
783. # [04:52] <@roc> I've tried that and it doesn't help
784. # [04:52] * Quits: b10n1k (j0ni@moz-B161B7E4.access.hol.gr) (Ping timeout)
785. # [04:52] <@roc> and I've tried the responsive design view and that doesn't help eitehr
786. # [04:52] * bz thinks we should have an "abandon hope all ye who wish to change the timing of anything, for we are fragile" sign on b-c tests
787. # [04:53] <bz> Jesse: The criteria are if we think the web will be usable without the feature 3 years from now
788. # [04:53] * RyanVM grabs a book
789. # [04:53] <bz> Jesse: for a typical user
790. # [04:53] <bz> Jesse: I personally think that document.domain will be needed for that and plug-ins won't be
791. # [04:53] <bz> Jesse: since we have existence proof of it being usable without Flash
792. # [04:53] <Jesse> bz: only 3 years? \o/
793. # [04:53] <bz> Jesse: and near-existence proof without Java
794. # [04:54] <bz> Jesse: heh
795. # [04:54] <Jesse> what's the existence proof?
796. # [04:54] <bz> Jesse: and pretty much existence proof for everything else
797. # [04:54] <Jesse> me and a few others browsing without flash for the year before CtP?
798. # [04:54] <@khuey> I imagine "typical" users are much more dependent on flash than java
799. # [04:54] * Joins: b10n1k (j0ni@moz-B161B7E4.access.hol.gr)
800. # [04:55] <@khuey> this is educated conjecture of course
801. # [04:55] <@khuey> that I'm engaging in to avoid banging my head ahead my computer
802. # [04:55] <Jesse> will netflix abandon its DRM requirement in 3 years?
803. # [04:55] <RyanVM> khuey: i've had java disabled or not even installed on my computers for months now without issue
804. # [04:56] <@khuey> clearly Jesse hasn't heard about EME
805. # [04:56] * Quits: @roc (chatzilla@E2F7352.56080C53.97BBD552.IP) (Ping timeout)
806. # [04:56] <@khuey> RyanVM: yep, totally fine
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808. # [04:56] <RyanVM> my previous employer had an intranet site that required it
809. # [04:56] <RyanVM> but that's about it AFAICR
810. # [04:57] * @khuey makes some educated guesses about what is supposed to go on these tax forms
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812. # [04:57] <Jesse> are we doing EME? i'd rather have EME than plugins.
813. # [04:57] <bz> My existence proof for Flash is iOS
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815. # [04:57] <Jesse> khuey: it's a trap! the forms are full of common use words that mean something entirely different in the realm of tax law!
816. # [04:57] <@khuey> meh
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820. # [04:57] <@khuey> on iOS a lot of the stuff that would be done with flash is done with Objective C
821. # [04:58] <@khuey> I wouldn't call that an existence proof
822. # [04:58] <bz> mmm
823. # [04:58] <@khuey> Jesse: my problem is more along the lines of the numbers I was given by Mozilla are bunk
824. # [04:58] <bz> As in just redirect to an app instead of a website?
825. # [04:58] <@khuey> yeah
826. # [04:58] <bz> khuey: huh?
827. # [04:58] <bz> khuey: which ones?
828. # [04:58] <Jesse> that's an existence proof that we can make an iOS browser, at least
829. # [04:58] * Quits: Matti (Matti@moz-FF1351C9.dip.t-dialin.net) (Ping timeout)
830. # [04:58] * bz hasn't run into obvious issues on the Mozilla tax forms yet, but would like to know what to watch out for!
831. # [04:58] <bz> jesse: heh
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833. # [04:59] <bz> I think in servo's timeframe Flash is likely to be pretty dead
834. # [04:59] <bz> fwiw, I've been browsing with Flash disabled for the last two weeks
835. # [04:59] <bz> The only issue I've run into is vidyo
836. # [04:59] <@khuey> bz: my W-2 has mistakes because they took a payroll deduction out of post-tax money instead of pre-tax money
837. # [04:59] <bz> khuey: ah
838. # [04:59] <hub> bz: and the monday meeting
839. # [04:59] <@khuey> bz: the classification of what's taxable and what's not for my relocation was done by someone on hard rugs
840. # [04:59] <@khuey> bz: I suspect the latter works in my favor though
841. # [04:59] <@khuey> where the former doesn't
842. # [04:59] <bz> khuey: I see
843. # [05:00] <hub> bz: I have been browsing flashless since before the iphone
844. # [05:00] <bz> hub: monday meeting? ;)
845. # [05:00] <@khuey> *hard drugs
846. # [05:00] * @khuey wonders what hard rugs would be
847. # [05:00] <bz> hub: I don't do those, honestly.
848. # [05:00] * Quits: kentuckyfriedtakahe (kentuckyfr@moz-54BAD29D.callplus.net.nz) (Quit: kentuckyfriedtakahe)
849. # [05:00] <bz> I guess I'd have a similar problem for one of Gary's things
850. # [05:00] <@khuey> bz: in particular, they classified things like airfare as taxable
851. # [05:00] <bz> But that all goes under vidyo
852. # [05:00] <hub> bz: that too
853. # [05:00] <@khuey> and that's like the first thing that *isn't* taxable
854. # [05:00] <hub> bz: air mozilla streaming live in general
855. # [05:00] <Jesse> bz: really? i hit several broken sites a week, including many where even the "please go get flash" button is broken. http://www.pastebin.mozilla.org/2179712
856. # [05:01] <@khuey> and since I booked the flight two days in advance that's not a small amount of money ;-)
857. # [05:01] <bz> jesse: I might not browse a wide selection of sites, mind you
858. # [05:01] <bz> khuey: lol
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860. # [05:01] <hub> Jesse: very often too.
861. # [05:01] <RyanVM> tbsaunde: with any luck, you'll be able to learn from whatever patch it was that made bug 828233 so much more frequent
862. # [05:01] <hub> restaurants, news sites, etc
863. # [05:01] <bz> khuey: yeah, ok, I haven't had relocation expenses to deal with so far.
864. # [05:01] <RyanVM> i'll be sure to comment there when I know
865. # [05:01] <bz> Pretty much all the restaurants around here use PDF
866. # [05:01] <bz> for menus
867. # [05:01] <@khuey> bz: just wait until we hire Marissa Meyer after Gary leaves
868. # [05:01] <Jesse> khuey: is mozilla sending its version of reality directly to the IRS, or only to you?
869. # [05:02] <bz> news sites.... I may not have visited any in the last 2 weeks. :(
870. # [05:02] <@khuey> Jesse: for the latter, just to me
871. # [05:02] <hub> Jesse: vimeo used to tell me to install an HTML5 compatible browser like Safari... even on Linux
872. # [05:02] <bz> khuey: <shrug>
873. # [05:02] <@khuey> Jesse: the incorrect w-2 gets sent on, of course
874. # [05:02] <Jesse> hub: lulz
875. # [05:02] <bz> khuey: we have a Boston office!
876. # [05:02] <@khuey> Jesse: assuming they don't fix it or whatever
877. # [05:02] <bz> khuey: but also, I can find another job if I get desperate... ;)
878. # [05:02] * Joins: Matti (Matti@moz-CD86267A.dip.t-dialin.net)
879. # [05:02] <@khuey> bz: is it more than 50 miles away from your home office
880. # [05:02] <@khuey> bz: you'd be eligible for relocation :-P
881. # [05:03] <@khuey> at least under IRS rules
882. # [05:03] <@khuey> no idea what our cutoff is
883. # [05:03] <Jesse> 50 miles by road? as the swallow flies?
884. # [05:03] <@khuey> I know from personal experience there is an upper bound at 2500 miles and 3 time zones
885. # [05:03] <bz> khuey: lol
886. # [05:03] <@khuey> Jesse: shortest reasonable travel route
887. # [05:04] * Joins: smooney_ (smooney@moz-57825793.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
888. # [05:04] <@khuey> Jesse: explicitly not as the crow flies
889. # [05:04] <hub> also half of youtube still require Flash on the desktop
890. # [05:04] <hub> to show ads
891. # [05:04] <Jesse> khuey: what if you're in los angeles and there is no reasonable travel route during rush hour?
892. # [05:04] <Jesse> hub: and some of those same videos aren't available to the iOS youtube app at all
893. # [05:04] <@khuey> Jesse: presumably they would allow for your private helicopter route
894. # [05:04] <bz> khuey: 50 miles from my house will land me in either the ocean, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Connecticut, or the middle of nowhere halfway between Worcester and Springfield
895. # [05:04] <bz> khuey: depending on direction
896. # [05:05] * Quits: tabraldes (Thunderbir@moz-3F87419B.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: tabraldes)
897. # [05:05] <@khuey> ah, yes
898. # [05:05] * Joins: jedp (jedp@moz-89599B04.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
899. # [05:05] <@khuey> states are small over there
900. # [05:05] <ewong> Jesse has a private helicopter?
901. # [05:05] <bz> Well, or perhaps at the start of the cape
902. # [05:05] <hub> Jesse: the worse is some are embedable and work with html5 / webm
903. # [05:05] <sfink> or 50 miles directly above your house, falling rapidly
904. # [05:05] <@khuey> I forget sometimes
905. # [05:05] <Jesse> bz: if you could kill off some marginally-used web features to make servo easier, what would they be? i'm thinking adoptNode and document.domain, what's your list?
906. # [05:05] <@khuey> sfink++
907. # [05:05] <bz> sfink: yes, yes
908. # [05:05] <hub> Jesse: wow, hbo.com is priceless
909. # [05:05] <bz> Jesse: adoptNode is not marginally used, afaik
910. # [05:05] <bz> Jesse: document.domain, yes
911. # [05:05] * Joins: capella (chatzilla@moz-DD0C7E4F.twcny.res.rr.com)
912. # [05:05] <bz> Jesse: let me think a bit
913. # [05:06] <bz> khuey: so basically if you got reimbursed for deductible moving expenses that doesn't count as taxable income?
914. # [05:06] <bz> khuey: but it got thus counted?
915. # [05:07] * Joins: kentuckyfriedtakahe (kentuckyfr@moz-54BAD29D.callplus.net.nz)
916. # [05:07] <@khuey> right
917. # [05:07] <bz> khuey: I see. That's kinda silly, yeah.
918. # [05:07] <Jesse> bz: (or faster or safer, but mostly easier)
919. # [05:08] <@khuey> bz: so here's the fun part
920. # [05:08] <@khuey> bz: "counted as taxable income" doesn't mean anything to the IRS here, afaict
921. # [05:08] * Quits: mayhemer (Miranda@moz-415580BA.broadband17.iol.cz) (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org)
922. # [05:08] <bz> khuey: depends on whether they deducted FICA on it, no?
923. # [05:08] <@khuey> well, that's not really accurate
924. # [05:09] <@khuey> it would be more accurate to say that
925. # [05:09] <@khuey> 1) Mozilla determined it was taxable income to me
926. # [05:09] <bz> khuey: since for the rest you'd just list it as a deduction on your tax return and get the taxes back
927. # [05:09] <@khuey> (even though its really not, since I can deduct it)
928. # [05:09] <Jesse> hub: yeah, i was thinking of making a greasemonkey script to go from the youtube page that "requires flash" to the youtube embed that sometimes works
929. # [05:09] <@khuey> 2) Mozilla paid me an additional amount of cash to cover taxes on what was supposed to be taxable income
930. # [05:09] * Joins: lizzard (ehenry@moz-5443DFD2.public.monkeybrains.net)
931. # [05:09] * glob|away is now known as glob
932. # [05:09] <bz> oh, for crying out loud
933. # [05:10] <@khuey> but since it's not really taxable
934. # [05:10] <@khuey> I just end up with the cash ..
935. # [05:10] <@khuey> minus the taxes on the cash, of course
936. # [05:10] <bz> right
937. # [05:10] <@khuey> so I think that mistake works in my favor :-P
938. # [05:10] <bz> yeah, indeed.
939. # [05:10] * Quits: kentuckyfriedtakahe (kentuckyfr@moz-54BAD29D.callplus.net.nz) (Ping timeout)
940. # [05:10] * Quits: lizzard (ehenry@moz-5443DFD2.public.monkeybrains.net) (Quit: lizzard)
941. # [05:10] <@khuey> so I asked the guy from the company we outsource this all to about the misclassification
942. # [05:10] <bz> (though note that they did in fact probably deduct FICA stuff from it all, though you probably still come out ahead in the end)
943. # [05:11] <@khuey> and he said that since Mozilla paid the taxes on it I would come out even
944. # [05:11] <@khuey> he clearly didn't actually think about it because I definitely come out ahead
945. # [05:11] <bz> That last part about thinking is par for the course
946. # [05:11] * @khuey sighs
947. # [05:12] <bz> Not least because Mozilla has no clue what your marginal rate is
948. # [05:12] <@khuey> yeah
949. # [05:12] <bz> They just have to guess.
950. # [05:12] <@khuey> and ca't possibly know
951. # [05:12] <bz> well, they could overestimate
952. # [05:12] <@khuey> sure
953. # [05:12] <@khuey> which they did
954. # [05:12] * @khuey does a bit of math
955. # [05:12] * Quits: Ann_Yiming (Ann_Yiming@moz-516C6548.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Input/output error)
956. # [05:12] <bz> dzbarsky ran into this too
957. # [05:12] * Joins: lizzard (ehenry@moz-4A77E192.tmodns.net)
958. # [05:13] <bz> The problem for him is that his marginal rate includes "how much his college financial aid is reduced based on his income"
959. # [05:13] <bz> which is ... unclear
960. # [05:13] <bz> even to him
961. # [05:13] <bz> Since it's not like the college tells you.
962. # [05:13] <@khuey> according to the itemized receipt they assumed a marginal rate of 61.95%
963. # [05:13] <bz> Seriously?
964. # [05:13] <Jesse> khuey: are you taking into account the hours you spend cleaning up the mess, and the expected number of hours you will spend in IRS audits in the future as a result?
965. # [05:13] <@khuey> bz: yep
966. # [05:14] <@khuey> bz: interestingly for other items they assumed different marginal rates
967. # [05:14] <@khuey> bz: leading me to believe that they just made shit up
968. # [05:14] <bz> As in they divided the actual amount by 0.3805 to get the "grossed up" amount?
969. # [05:14] * Quits: smooney_ (smooney@moz-57825793.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: smooney_)
970. # [05:14] <@khuey> oh, yeah, I did the math wrong
971. # [05:14] * @khuey feels dumb now
972. # [05:15] * bz is actually pretty curious what they assumed khuey's marginal rate to be
973. # [05:15] * Quits: ericjung (ericjung@moz-FC76CC78.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout)
974. # [05:16] <@khuey> ok, so it's 1 - base/(base+tax assistance)
975. # [05:16] <@khuey> right?
976. # [05:16] <derf> ehsan is connected to etherpad, but not on IRC?
977. # [05:16] <@khuey> that comes out to 38.25%
978. # [05:16] <bz> khuey: yes
979. # [05:16] <bz> khuey: ok
980. # [05:17] <@khuey> which is probably fairly close
981. # [05:17] <@khuey> once you add SS, Medicare, CA state, etc ...
982. # [05:17] * Joins: victorporof (victorporo@1CF03390.183F338A.6A4F8DA2.IP)
983. # [05:17] <bz> khuey: if you're in the 25% federal bracket, yeah
984. # [05:17] <@khuey> but they still did use different marginal rates for other things
985. # [05:17] * bz looks up 2013 tax brackets, discovers there's a tiny 35% bracket
986. # [05:18] <@khuey> like for my temporary housing they used 31.something%
987. # [05:18] <bz> from $398351 to $400000
988. # [05:18] <@khuey> which is almost certainly below my marginal rate
989. # [05:18] <@khuey> so again with the making shit up thing
990. # [05:18] <bz> heh
991. # [05:18] <@khuey> coincidentally
992. # [05:18] <bz> Btw... Do make sure you don't hit the AMT
993. # [05:19] <@khuey> that may also explain why I'm going to owe 20 bucks or so
994. # [05:19] * Joins: ekr_ (ekr@moz-FAC44BDF.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
995. # [05:19] <bz> because that changes your marginal rate, natch
996. # [05:19] <@khuey> I don't think I'm in AMT danger
997. # [05:19] <@khuey> the only remotely significant deduction I have is CA state tax
998. # [05:20] <@khuey> but yeah
999. # [05:20] <@khuey> it's fun how complicated this all is!
1000. # [05:20] <bz> heh
1001. # [05:20] * Joins: twi (Adium@moz-12EC5C5D.ip243.fastwebnet.it)
1002. # [05:20] * bz only really has MA state taxes and real estate taxes
1003. # [05:20] <bz> and I still end up in AMT land. ;)
1004. # [05:20] <bz> well, my wife and I together do
1005. # [05:20] <@khuey> mortgage interest deduction?
1006. # [05:21] * bz hasn't run the numbers for just himself
1007. # [05:21] <bz> khuey: yes, but that one you still get under the AMT
1008. # [05:21] <@khuey> ah
1009. # [05:21] <@khuey> interesting
1010. # [05:21] <dougt> khuey: get a tax lawyer.
1011. # [05:21] * mjschranz is now known as mjschranz_away
1012. # [05:21] <@khuey> my biggest takeaway from doing taxes this year is that I need to get married
1013. # [05:21] * bz inserts standard disclaimers about himself not being a tax lawyer
1014. # [05:21] <bz> khuey: lol
1015. # [05:21] <@khuey> dougt: if mine were one iota more complicated than they are, I probably would go get an accountant
1016. # [05:21] <dougt> khuey: mail order?
1017. # [05:21] * Joins: smooney_ (smooney@moz-57825793.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
1018. # [05:22] <bz> khuey: just to move the brackets up?
1019. # [05:22] <@khuey> bz: right
1020. # [05:22] * Quits: ekr_ (ekr@moz-FAC44BDF.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Quit: ekr_)
1021. # [05:22] <bz> khuey: note that on the other end it starts to bit the other way
1022. # [05:22] <@khuey> I have to marry someone who makes far less than me, of course
1023. # [05:22] * Quits: lizzard (ehenry@moz-4A77E192.tmodns.net) (Quit: lizzard)
1024. # [05:22] <bz> khuey: Of course then their marginal rate _really_ stinks
1025. # [05:22] <bz> khuey: incentivizing them to quit
1026. # [05:22] <@khuey> I suspect the easiest way to do that is marry them then kill them
1027. # [05:22] <tbsaunde> bz: AMT?
1028. # [05:22] <@khuey> so that you can file as a widower
1029. # [05:23] <bz> tbsaunde: Alternative minimum tax
1030. # [05:23] <@khuey> and get the bracket raise without the income
1031. # [05:23] * Joins: kentuckyfriedtakahe (kentuckyfr@moz-54BAD29D.callplus.net.nz)
1032. # [05:23] <bz> tbsaunde: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_Minimum_Tax
1033. # [05:23] <@khuey> there are other risks involved in this plan
1034. # [05:23] <bz> khuey: ah, the bluebeard approach?
1035. # [05:23] <tbsaunde> bz: ah
1036. # [05:23] <@khuey> I'd have to figure out the expected value of the tax savings vs the opportunity cost of prison
1037. # [05:23] <Jesse> khuey: "filing as a widower" is a thing?
1038. # [05:24] <bz> Jesse: http://taxes.about.com/od/filingstatus/qt/qualifyingwidow.htm
1039. # [05:24] <bz> Jesse: "yes"
1040. # [05:24] <@khuey> Jesse: for that year, yes
1041. # [05:24] <Jesse> for a year, or maybe three if you have kids?
1042. # [05:24] <@khuey> Jesse: this plan requires a continual supply of human
1043. # [05:25] <bz> right, hence bluebeard
1044. # [05:25] <bz> Anyway, the interaction of taxes with marriage is .... <sigh>
1045. # [05:26] <@khuey> it's designed for the 1950s
1046. # [05:27] <bz> Sorta
1047. # [05:27] <bz> It's just wacky all around
1048. # [05:27] <bz> And God forbid you should file separately
1049. # [05:27] <@khuey> so, if I fix the relocation stuff
1050. # [05:27] <@khuey> and correct the w-2
1051. # [05:27] <@khuey> I'm down to only owing ~$100
1052. # [05:27] <@khuey> (beyond withholding)
1053. # [05:28] <@khuey> and I started at $600 or so
1054. # [05:28] <@khuey> not bad
1055. # [05:28] <@khuey> and CA should owe me a fair amount of money since I didn't live here all year
1056. # [05:29] <Jesse> khuey: you getting extra money "to account for taxes" balances out with the rest of us paying for our own travel because we can't be bothered to figure out how to file travel expense reports
1057. # [05:29] <bz> And FL has no income tax
1058. # [05:29] <@khuey> bz: yeah I miss that
1059. # [05:29] <@khuey> bz: not enough to move back ...
1060. # [05:29] <@khuey> but I do miss it
1061. # [05:29] <bz> khuey: at least until you buy a house. ;)
1062. # [05:29] * Joins: lizzard (ehenry@moz-5443DFD2.public.monkeybrains.net)
1063. # [05:29] <@khuey> bz: I'm not convinced I'll ever own a house
1064. # [05:29] <bz> khuey: granted, you'd miss it less if you already _owned_ a house from like 20 years ago!
1065. # [05:29] <bz> khuey: in CA
1066. # [05:29] <@khuey> Jesse: :-D
1067. # [05:30] <@khuey> speaking of which
1068. # [05:30] * @khuey needs to do expenses for this last trip
1069. # [05:30] <bz> heh
1070. # [05:30] <@khuey> dougt: you better have your approval finger ready :-P
1071. # [05:30] * bz already got the reimbursement
1072. # [05:30] <bz> Granted, it ended ealier for me than for you.
1073. # [05:30] <@khuey> right
1074. # [05:30] <dougt> khuey: approved
1075. # [05:30] <@khuey> despite the best efforts of the weather
1076. # [05:30] <@khuey> dougt: you're the best
1077. # [05:31] <dougt> i need to do mine for the last 3 trips I've done.
1078. # [05:31] <derf> Sigh, I really need to do expenses.
1079. # [05:31] <@khuey> dougt: sad part is that only covers 2 months
1080. # [05:31] <dougt> hah.
1081. # [05:31] <dougt> i know!
1082. # [05:31] <bz> So yeah
1083. # [05:31] <@khuey> btw did nsm get back?
1084. # [05:31] <dougt> i think we should just get a per-diem and be done.
1085. # [05:31] <derf> dougt: Amen.
1086. # [05:32] <dougt> yah.
1087. # [05:32] <bz> ROTH contribution limits for married filing separately ... still stink
1088. # [05:32] <bz> for no obvious reason other than "thou shalt not file separately for it is an abomination"
1089. # [05:32] <derf> We don't even do ROTH, do we?
1090. # [05:32] <@khuey> bz: IRA?
1091. # [05:32] <@khuey> dougt: we need to find out of EC 261 applies to nsm
1092. # [05:32] <@khuey> dougt: and if he's owed a bunch of money
1093. # [05:33] <bz> khuey: roth iras, yeah
1094. # [05:33] <@khuey> derf: not for 401k, afaik
1095. # [05:33] <bz> derf: for the 401k, no
1096. # [05:33] <@khuey> bz: are you familiar with the backdoor roth ira?
1097. # [05:33] <bz> khuey: you mean roth conversions?
1098. # [05:33] <@khuey> more or less
1099. # [05:33] <dougt> they gave him a hotel room
1100. # [05:33] <@khuey> dougt: well they may owe him 600 euros ...
1101. # [05:34] * Quits: jimb (user@moz-F4EC06CC.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Ping timeout)
1102. # [05:34] <dougt> shit.. he might be due 600 e.. yeah
1103. # [05:34] <@khuey> dougt: yeah
1104. # [05:34] <dougt> i hope he got it.
1105. # [05:34] <@khuey> depends on why the flight was canceled
1106. # [05:34] <@khuey> usually you have to do it after the fact
1107. # [05:34] * Mossop is now known as Mossop_away
1108. # [05:34] <bz> khuey: oh, interesting
1109. # [05:34] <dougt> not sure.
1110. # [05:34] <@khuey> and if you're from out of the EU they stonewall you
1111. # [05:34] <bz> khuey: I should look into this!
1112. # [05:34] <@khuey> bz: indeed
1113. # [05:34] <@khuey> bz: this is what I do
1114. # [05:34] <dougt> i am assuming that the union is striking again.
1115. # [05:35] <@khuey> bz: Congress ftw
1116. # [05:35] <@khuey> removing limits on the conversion but not the direct contribution
1117. # [05:35] <derf> I also need to do some ROTH conversions.
1118. # [05:35] <bz> khuey: Need to figure out how much I really want to be putting in retirement stuff
1119. # [05:35] <bz> khuey: vice versa
1120. # [05:35] <bz> er, no
1121. # [05:35] <bz> you had it right
1122. # [05:35] * bz is clearly tired.
1123. # [05:35] <derf> Why must everything with money require so much effort and be so boring?
1124. # [05:36] <dougt> the sad part about it is that the iberia flight was quite nice.
1125. # [05:36] * Quits: smooney_ (smooney@moz-57825793.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: smooney_)
1126. # [05:36] <dougt> they gave real silverware (and i immediately thought what a terrorist could do with something like a metal fork)
1127. # [05:36] * Quits: victorporof (victorporo@1CF03390.183F338A.6A4F8DA2.IP) (Ping timeout)
1128. # [05:36] <dougt> (which is just about nothing)
1129. # [05:36] <bz> ah
1130. # [05:36] <derf> dougt: He could eat a salad.
1131. # [05:36] * bz finds caveat in wikipedia page, thinks
1132. # [05:36] <@khuey> derf: that's pretty scary
1133. # [05:37] <@khuey> bz: yeah you have to have no other money in IRAs
1134. # [05:37] * cjones-bbiab is now known as cjones
1135. # [05:37] <@khuey> that's the hard part for most people
1136. # [05:37] <Jesse> derf: to increase wealth inequality, mostly
1137. # [05:37] * bz wonders whether that includes SEP IRAs
1138. # [05:37] <dougt> yeah, now I know why they are terrorists.. ugh… eating airplane salad..
1139. # [05:37] <@khuey> bz: I think it does but don't quote me
1140. # [05:37] <bz> khuey: I won't
1141. # [05:37] * bz is reading pub 590
1142. # [05:37] <@khuey> heh
1143. # [05:37] <derf> dougt: It's better than eating anything that's been cooked on an airplane.
1144. # [05:37] * Quits: lizzard (ehenry@moz-5443DFD2.public.monkeybrains.net) (Quit: lizzard)
1145. # [05:38] <dougt> i doubt it.
1146. # [05:38] * Quits: kentuckyfriedtakahe (kentuckyfr@moz-54BAD29D.callplus.net.nz) (Client exited)
1147. # [05:38] <dougt> unwashed salad from random places in the world.
1148. # [05:38] * Joins: lizzard (ehenry@moz-5443DFD2.public.monkeybrains.net)
1149. # [05:38] <jesup|mac> bz: tax rules and wikipedia - a marriage made in .... somewhere dangerous ;-)
1150. # [05:38] * Joins: smooney__ (smooney@moz-57825793.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
1151. # [05:38] <bz> jesup|mac: which is why I'm reading Pub 590. ;)
1152. # [05:38] <dougt> derf: example - http://www.dnaindia.com/bangalore/report_brain-worm-cases-worry-doctors_1199219
1153. # [05:39] <derf> dougt: At least they're high-volume enough that it usually isn't brown.
1154. # [05:39] * @khuey edits wikipedia to say that persons named "Jesup" are required to pay 200% tax to the Bank of Huey
1155. # [05:39] * Quits: lizzard (ehenry@moz-5443DFD2.public.monkeybrains.net) (Quit: lizzard)
1156. # [05:39] <dougt> khuey: double dare
1157. # [05:39] <bz> yeah, sure sounds like SEPs are considered traditional IRAs for this purpose
1158. # [05:40] * bz should think about rolling over that into his 401k
1159. # [05:40] <bz> anyway
1160. # [05:40] <@khuey> dougt: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Doug_Turner_%28Mozilla%29&oldid=540841848
1161. # [05:40] <bz> Though....
1162. # [05:41] <@khuey> wikiality wtf
1163. # [05:41] <@khuey> er
1164. # [05:41] <@khuey> ftw
1165. # [05:41] <bz> What's the difference between just a regular contribution to an IRA and this?
1166. # [05:41] <dougt> hah
1167. # [05:41] <@khuey> apparently it's getting late
1168. # [05:41] <@khuey> bz: there's no difference in the contribution
1169. # [05:41] <dougt> i am kind of surprised at some of the detail
1170. # [05:41] <dougt> and some of the erros
1171. # [05:41] <@khuey> the question is how the rollover works
1172. # [05:41] <bz> yes, but on the withdrawal end
1173. # [05:41] <bz> which is what matters
1174. # [05:42] <@khuey> you mean vs a roth ira?
1175. # [05:42] <bz> Ah, I see
1176. # [05:42] <bz> ok
1177. # [05:42] * rail is now known as rail_away
1178. # [05:42] * @khuey isn't entirely sure what the question was
1179. # [05:43] * Quits: jrmuizel (jrmuizel@moz-6E78BC7C.cpe.teksavvy.com) (Client exited)
1180. # [05:43] <@khuey> but if you're going to be putting in post tax money, you really want it in a roth ira if at all possible
1181. # [05:43] <bz> The question was why one would want to do this as opposed to just contributing post-tax money to a traditional IRA
1182. # [05:43] * tbsaunde wonders how bz and khuey haven't died of boardem / glazed over eyes yet
1183. # [05:43] <@khuey> ah, yes, so you don't pay taxes on the earnings
1184. # [05:43] <bz> but the answer is that when you withdraw money in a Roth is treated much better
1185. # [05:43] <bz> right
1186. # [05:43] <@khuey> right
1187. # [05:44] <jesup|mac> There's also the "guess at what tax rates will be after you retire" around the whole IRA/ROTH/401K/etc
1188. # [05:44] <@khuey> tbsaunde: the answer is that if you work on the cycle collector during the day taxes will seem interesting at night
1189. # [05:44] <@khuey> jesup|mac: yeah
1190. # [05:44] <@dolske> well, the traditional reason for Roth/401K is that you're likely to be in a higher tax bracket now, vs when you withdraw in retirement.
1191. # [05:44] <bz> jesup|mac: if you're picking between them, yes
1192. # [05:44] <@khuey> jesup|mac: but if you make as much as we do it doesn't really matter
1193. # [05:44] <@khuey> since you don't have any choice
1194. # [05:44] <@khuey> especially since mozilla doesn't have a roth 401k
1195. # [05:44] <tbsaunde> khuey: meh, I think I'd probably avoid the taxes and stick with the cycle collector
1196. # [05:45] <@dolske> if you're paying the same tax rate, it doesn't matter if you're saving pre- or post- tax dollars (well, there are some details, but that's basically it)
1197. # [05:45] * Quits: smooney__ (smooney@moz-57825793.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: smooney__)
1198. # [05:45] <bz> jesup|mac: on the other hand if you want to max out the 401k and contribute more...
1199. # [05:45] <bz> jesup|mac: then suddenly you want a roth if you can manage it
1200. # [05:46] <@khuey> dolske: not true, if you're paying the same tax rate at withdrawl you want to put in pre-tax dollars
1201. # [05:46] <@khuey> dolske: so you'll have a larger initial investment to grow
1202. # [05:46] <bz> Oh, and this is a recent change too (2010)
1203. # [05:46] <jesup|mac> Yes. But there are limits. But there's a crazy workaround
1204. # [05:46] <bz> No wonder I'd missed it. ;)
1205. # [05:46] * Joins: erikvold (erikvold@681D3D12.9FDBEFBE.3464FAC3.IP)
1206. # [05:46] * bz kast looked into roths + income in 2008
1207. # [05:46] <bz> er, last
1208. # [05:46] <@khuey> yeah congress wanted the money from conversions so they lifted the cap
1209. # [05:46] <jesup|mac> contribute to post-tax IRA. Then rollover to roth
1210. # [05:47] <jesup|mac> IIRC
1211. # [05:47] <@khuey> jesup|mac: that's what we're discussing
1212. # [05:47] <bz> khuey: actually, if you pay the same tax rate at withdrawal, it doesn't matter, does it?
1213. # [05:47] <bz> khuey: ah, I guess it does since you don't withdraw all at once
1214. # [05:47] <@khuey> bz: right
1215. # [05:47] <bz> khuey: if you withdrew at once it wouldn't matter.... ;)
1216. # [05:47] <Jesse> when did #developers turn into #legaltaxevasion?
1217. # [05:47] <@khuey> compound interest and all that
1218. # [05:48] <@khuey> Jesse: after payroll fucked up my w2
1219. # [05:48] <jesup|mac> jesse: it always has been. People just usually talk in code ;-)
1220. # [05:48] <bz> doesn't matter except insofar as you withdraw incrementally
1221. # [05:48] <Jesse> jesup|mac: lol
1222. # [05:48] <bz> because multiplication is commutative and distributes over addition.
1223. # [05:48] <@khuey> and it's not tax evasion if its illegal
1224. # [05:48] <@khuey> er
1225. # [05:48] <@khuey> if its legal
1226. # [05:48] * @khuey sighs
1227. # [05:48] * Joins: alice (alice@moz-FC2427F3.range86-167.btcentralplus.com)
1228. # [05:48] <bz> Here I was going to say it's "tax fraud" if it's illegal.... ;)
1229. # [05:48] * Joins: lizzard (ehenry@moz-5443DFD2.public.monkeybrains.net)
1230. # [05:48] <Jesse> and it's not illegal if you get away with it?
1231. # [05:48] <jesup|mac> khuey: don't worry, this is all logged for the IRS
1232. # [05:49] <@khuey> jesup|mac: heh
1233. # [05:49] <@khuey> I'm not worried
1234. # [05:49] * Joins: rohandalvi (rohandalvi@moz-8995B7DA.rochester.res.rr.com)
1235. # [05:49] * Quits: lizzard (ehenry@moz-5443DFD2.public.monkeybrains.net) (Quit: lizzard)
1236. # [05:49] <@khuey> everything we've discucssed and everything I file is legal
1237. # [05:50] <jesup|mac> At least income averaging went away. And it's corollary, tax throwbacks.
1238. # [05:50] * Joins: lizzard (ehenry@moz-5443DFD2.public.monkeybrains.net)
1239. # [05:50] <@dolske> khuey / bz: http://www.pastebin.mozilla.org/2179822
1240. # [05:50] * Quits: alice (alice@moz-FC2427F3.range86-167.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout)
1241. # [05:50] * Quits: mconley (mconley@D4B46A36.8C6552CA.6816E6B7.IP) (Input/output error)
1242. # [05:50] <@dolske> same tax rate makes it a wash in the simple case.
1243. # [05:51] * Quits: cpearce (chatzilla@538BABFE.A073F3E.97BBD552.IP) (Ping timeout)
1244. # [05:51] <bz> dolske: if you withdraw in a lump sum
1245. # [05:51] * Quits: lizzard (ehenry@moz-5443DFD2.public.monkeybrains.net) (Quit: lizzard)
1246. # [05:51] <bz> dolske: now say you plan to retire on a fixed income of $500 pre-tax
1247. # [05:51] <@khuey> "stock market is super effective"
1248. # [05:52] <@khuey> that's great
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1250. # [05:52] * Quits: lmandel (lmandel@FE1F74.86ED00A7.971E19F6.IP) (Quit: lmandel)
1251. # [05:52] <bz> dolske: and that the market keeps growing at 10%/year in your retirement
1252. # [05:52] <bz> dolske: what happens?
1253. # [05:52] * Joins: vigneshwaran (vigneshwar@FC0B83FD.138D8F1E.FD6A0EFF.IP)
1254. # [05:52] <@dolske> bz: "simple case" :)
1255. # [05:52] <@khuey> 10%/year
1256. # [05:52] <@khuey> lol
1257. # [05:52] * Quits: RyanVM (chatzilla@moz-148999FE.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 22.0a1/20130225162211])
1258. # [05:52] <@khuey> I'd like some of that please
1259. # [05:52] <jesup|mac> I had the fun of recalculating the previous 3? 5? years of taxes with changed assumptions, averaging the results, and ending up with a result of a change of .... $0
1260. # [05:52] <bz> dolske: yes, we discussed the simple case above
1261. # [05:52] <@dolske> pretty sure once you start throwing in all the tricky details it really ends up mattering on the specifics.
1262. # [05:52] <bz> khuey: it just makes running the numbers easier
1263. # [05:53] * Joins: roc (chatzilla@C0ACF8B.5E1E9EEA.613E47D1.IP)
1264. # [05:53] * ChanServ sets mode: +o roc
1265. # [05:53] <@khuey> fair enough
1266. # [05:53] * Joins: ekr_ (ekr@moz-FAC44BDF.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
1267. # [05:53] <njn> Chrome 26 has disabled MathML? lame
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1269. # [05:53] * Quits: mmc|laptop (mmc@moz-BBC0C7F1.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout)
1270. # [05:53] <bz> dolske: I think any case in which the money keeps growing after you retire you win in
1271. # [05:53] <jesup|mac> roc: you want me to land that AppendToTrack patch?
1272. # [05:54] <bz> dolske: if you withdraw not in a lump sum
1273. # [05:54] <@roc> you can
1274. # [05:54] <@roc> I've got some stuff to land otnight if the tree's green
1275. # [05:54] * bz checks his numbers
1276. # [05:54] * Quits: erikvold (erikvold@681D3D12.9FDBEFBE.3464FAC3.IP) (Quit: erikvold)
1277. # [05:54] <Jesse> njn: oh?
1278. # [05:54] <jesup|mac> roc: cool, np
1279. # [05:55] <bz> Maybe not, though
1280. # [05:55] * Quits: josh (josh@moz-61186829.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Quit: josh)
1281. # [05:55] <njn> Jesse: http://blog.chromium.org/2013/02/chrome-26-beta-template-element.html
1282. # [05:56] * Joins: josh (josh@moz-61186829.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
1283. # [05:57] <jcranmer> gps: ping
1284. # [05:58] <@khuey> bz: dolske: actually now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure that if absolutely everything is held constant its a wash
1285. # [05:58] <@khuey> bz: dolske: even accounting for contribution/withdrawl over time
1286. # [05:58] <Jesse> all of mathml is only worth one point on http://html5test.com/ :/
1287. # [05:59] <bz> Yeah, that's what I'm getting too
1288. # [05:59] <bz> due to distributivity
1289. # [05:59] <@khuey> yeah
1290. # [05:59] <bz> Jesse: html5test is a crock
1291. # [06:01] <@khuey> anyways
1292. # [06:01] <@khuey> since most of us can't put pre-tax money in a traditional ira
1293. # [06:01] <@khuey> it doesn't really matter
1294. # [06:01] * Joins: lmandel (lmandel@FE1F74.86ED00A7.971E19F6.IP)
1295. # [06:01] <bz> indeed
1296. # [06:01] <bz> once you max out the 401k at least
1297. # [06:02] <markh> /title #mozilla-tax-advice
1298. # [06:02] <markh> ;)
1299. # [06:02] <@khuey> right
1300. # [06:02] <@khuey> markh: /title #mozilla-us-tax-advice
1301. # [06:03] <markh> damn - I had a few AUS tax questions I was queuing up!
1302. # [06:03] * Quits: jedp (jedp@moz-89599B04.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1303. # [06:03] <@dolske> Hey griff! Bring in the tax!!!!
1304. # [06:03] * @khuey grumbles
1305. # [06:03] <@khuey> bholley what have you done
1306. # [06:04] * @dolske is still infatuated with http://bringinthecats.com/
1307. # [06:04] <@khuey> dolske: is this like bring in the dancing lobsters?
1308. # [06:04] <@khuey> or are you too old for that
1309. # [06:04] * Quits: nigelb (nigel@moz-8640053A.me) (Client exited)
1310. # [06:05] <gps> jcranmer: pong
1311. # [06:05] <@dolske> khuey: wow.
1312. # [06:05] <jcranmer> gps: see the comment I just posted in the c-c bug
1313. # [06:05] * Joins: nigelb (nigel@moz-8640053A.me)
1314. # [06:05] * @khuey isn't sure what the wow is directed at
1315. # [06:06] <gps> jcranmer: yeah, I'm slowly figuring this out
1316. # [06:06] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/74d4c4a7e5c0 - Chris Peterson - Bug 845080 - Extract BackgroundService superclass. r=rnewman
1317. # [06:06] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/12a80c7bb01a - Richard Newman - Bug 840267 - Follow-up: fix whitespace (whitespace only). r=trivial
1318. # [06:06] <gps> I put the objdir under Git and am diffing output. results are... interesting
1319. # [06:06] <@dolske> khuey: tbh I thought you might be referring to http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/lobster
1320. # [06:07] * Joins: bsmith (bsmith@moz-BE33DA21.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net)
1321. # [06:07] <@dolske> (ah, the good old days when crappy animations were pure flash, and not just a youtube video)
1322. # [06:07] * Quits: Asa (asa@D13E5E3F.A1EC5031.204CA821.IP) (Ping timeout)
1323. # [06:07] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/a9873a552eda - Kartikaya Gupta - Bug 774964 - Implement the getPKCS12FilePassword dialog in native fennec. r=mfinkle
1324. # [06:07] <jcranmer> gps: welcome to the insanity of c-c's build system?
1325. # [06:07] <gps> sadly
1326. # [06:07] <jcranmer> fortunately, I landed the subconfigure on m-i today
1327. # [06:08] * Joins: smooney__ (smooney@moz-57825793.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
1328. # [06:08] <@khuey> dolske: ah so the wow was the result of hte google search
1329. # [06:08] * @dolske wonders if Boriss wins at knowing of the dancing lobsters
1330. # [06:08] <gps> I missed a dancing lobster?!
1331. # [06:08] <Boriss> hell, i know magnetic ones
1332. # [06:09] * Quits: lmandel (lmandel@FE1F74.86ED00A7.971E19F6.IP) (Quit: lmandel)
1333. # [06:09] <@dolske> kids these days!
1334. # [06:10] <gps> for some reason this triggered me to Youtube Crazy Crab videos
1335. # [06:10] * bz kicks C++ for not allowing template typedefs
1336. # [06:12] <jaws> roc: non-urgent ping?
1337. # [06:12] <@roc> hi
1338. # [06:13] * Joins: lizzard (ehenry@moz-5443DFD2.public.monkeybrains.net)
1339. # [06:13] <jaws> roc: hey, i was just curious how you came up with your choice of 8 as the call to SimplifyOutward in bug 845526. other usages within layout/base use 4
1340. # [06:13] <@roc> it doesn't really matter
1341. # [06:13] <@roc> probably
1342. # [06:13] <@dolske> gps: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYz0qjwC-EA
1343. # [06:13] <@roc> as long as it's a reasonably small constant
1344. # [06:14] <jaws> ok, it seemed arbitrary, but i wasn't sure if there was some math behind the choice
1345. # [06:14] <@roc> unfortunately no :-)
1346. # [06:15] * philor is now known as philor|away
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1350. # [06:16] <bz> Sure there was
1351. # [06:16] <bz> take log, compare to 2
1352. # [06:16] <bz> (log base 10)
1353. # [06:16] <bz> or maybe compare to 1
1354. # [06:18] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/62f32eb94356 - Mark Capella - Bug 841249 - [Robocop] Tests for distribution preferences, r=margaret
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1359. # [06:20] * philor|away is now known as philor
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1361. # [06:22] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/ca131cc6fdac - Josh Matthews - Bug 844684 - Decode GIFs that include an application extension string shorter than 11 bytes. r=joe
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1364. # [06:25] * bz makes sure anyone trying to -Wshadow dom/bindings will suffer
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1369. # [06:26] * nrc is now known as nrc|biab
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1376. # [06:33] <bz> Do we have a mozilla-twitter-discuss?
1377. # [06:33] <bz> or contacts at twitter?
1378. # [06:33] * Joins: bholley (anonymous@moz-24EDB000.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
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1385. # [06:36] <jst> not that I know
1386. # [06:36] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/17d25f2c3c38 - Jason Duell - Bug 838988 - Incorrect download status in nsIRequest::OnStopRequest r=honza
1387. # [06:36] <jst> bz: I can probably find some contacts for you tho, what are you looking for?
1388. # [06:36] * Joins: ggp (ggp@moz-CF8BEBEF.dia.static.qwest.net)
1389. # [06:37] <@khuey> bz: sayre works there ...
1390. # [06:37] * Quits: victorporof (victorporo@1CF03390.183F338A.6A4F8DA2.IP) (Ping timeout)
1391. # [06:37] <jst> indeed
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1393. # [06:40] <fabrice> we have contacts with twitter for b2g
1394. # [06:42] * bz may have a bug on his hands where we aligned with the spec and it broke some twitter stuff
1395. # [06:43] <bz> but it'd be nice to see an unminified version of their script to tell wth is going on
1396. # [06:43] <glob> bz, https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/javascript-deminifier/ has helped me with debugging minimised js
1397. # [06:44] * Joins: cpearce (chatzilla@moz-FC66E8A9.xdsl.xnet.co.nz)
1398. # [06:44] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/63a6466d8c46 - Daniel Holbert - Bug 844529: Disable flex-item style fixup when resolving style for anonymous content in nsCSSFrameConstructor::ProcessChildren(). r=bz
1399. # [06:44] * gps curses at the comm-central build system
1400. # [06:45] <jcranmer> what now?
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1403. # [06:46] <bz> glob: yes, but the problem is getting the page to use it!
1404. # [06:46] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/7164bd42720f - Brian Nicholson - Bug 845612 - Add @Override annotations for implemented interfaces. r=kats
1405. # [06:46] <glob> bz, heh, i guess we're approaching the 'debugging js' from opposite ends :)
1406. # [06:46] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/ed22faa72a82 - Brian Nicholson - Bug 845612 - Add missing @Override annotations. r=kats
1407. # [06:46] <bz> glob: I don't control the page the JS is on!
1408. # [06:47] * nrc|biab is now known as nrc
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1410. # [06:47] <glob> bz, right. so that firebug extension helps with that
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1412. # [06:47] <bz> mmm
1413. # [06:48] <bz> will it tell me which line number of the unminified script we hang on?
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1415. # [06:48] <bz> or rather it hangs on
1416. # [06:48] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/e3738346f307 - Brian Nicholson - Bug 845618 - Remove unused imports. r=kats
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1418. # [06:49] <glob> most probably, yes. i believe it performs deminimisation on the js before it is loaded/parsed
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1423. # [06:51] <bz> glob: oh, interesting
1424. # [06:51] <bz> glob: I should look into that....
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1427. # [06:53] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/931ad73babc6 - Chia-hung Tai - Bug 810097 - B2G MMS: Retry retrieval on error. r=vyang
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1436. # [07:04] <glob> happy bmo push day! http://globau.wordpress.com/2013/02/27/happy-bmo-push-day-32/
1437. # [07:04] * jcranmer is now known as jcranmer|away
1438. # [07:05] <bz> ok
1439. # [07:05] <bz> so does anyone know a current e-mail address for sayre?
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1444. # [07:09] <@dbaron> bz, does a twitter account work?
1445. # [07:10] <bz> dbaron: mmm. I can probably just find that if I need to
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1447. # [07:10] * bz would rather keep this not-quite-that-public for now
1448. # [07:10] <@dbaron> bz, twitter has direct messages
1449. # [07:11] <@dbaron> bz, https://twitter.com/sayrer
1450. # [07:11] * Joins: tomer (tomer@moz-F45DAEFD.static.012.net.il)
1451. # [07:12] <@dbaron> bz, though I'd expect @gmail.com and possibly @twitter.com work
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1455. # [07:18] <bz> dbaron: Direct messages other than just starting with @nick ?
1456. # [07:18] <@dbaron> bz, yes
1457. # [07:18] <bz> dbaron: yeah, got the gmail; mail sent
1458. # [07:18] * bz looks for where
1459. # [07:18] <bz> hmm
1460. # [07:18] <bz> just "m" seems to do it
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1462. # [07:19] <@dbaron> bz, go to a user's page, drop down on the person icon
1463. # [07:19] <@dbaron> bz, read yours from your own user page
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1465. # [07:19] <@dbaron> bz, where there's an envelope icon
1466. # [07:19] <bz> hmm
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1469. # [07:19] <bz> dropdown there has "tweet to @sayrer", add/remove, block, report, embed
1470. # [07:20] <reuben> you both have to follow each other for DMs to work AFAIK
1471. # [07:20] <bz> Do we need to have a preexisting follower relationship?
1472. # [07:20] <bz> ah
1473. # [07:20] <bz> well, then!
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1475. # [07:20] <reuben> "You can only send a direct message to a user who is following you; you can only receive direct messages from users you follow."
1476. # [07:20] <@dbaron> oh, right
1477. # [07:20] <bz> right
1478. # [07:20] <bz> well, looks like sayrer isn't following me
1479. # [07:21] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/77ca1d9b5967 - L. David Baron - Bug 404077: Clean up erroneous expectAssertions calls from GC of objects created in test_bug391777.html.
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1481. # [07:22] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/58890b4aadfb - L. David Baron - Bug 404077: Clean up erroneous expectAssertions calls from GC of objects created in a series of tests using showModalDialog.
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1483. # [07:22] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/710f17ddda96 - L. David Baron - Bug 404077: Clean up erroneous expectAssertions calls from GC of objects created in test_bug291653.html.
1484. # [07:22] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/4440a6338160 - L. David Baron - Bug 404077: Use navigator.platform.startsWith rather than navigator.platform.indexOf, at Jesse's suggestion.
1485. # [07:22] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/672ce8b62c32 - L. David Baron - Bug 404077: Annotate one more known assertion.
1486. # [07:22] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/d08c12966908 - L. David Baron - Bug 404077: Do GC in a small number of tests to reduce the spread of GC-related assertions. r=Jesse
1487. # [07:23] <bz> oh, tree is reopened?
1488. # [07:23] <@dbaron> bz, you're late to the game, as was I
1489. # [07:24] <bz> late as in it's closed? ;)
1490. # [07:24] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/ac3b7681470c - Boris Zbarsky - Bug 838686 part 1. Add a helper class that can store a WebIDL callback or an XPCOM interface. r=peterv
1491. # [07:25] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/a3aaa9067e14 - Boris Zbarsky - Bug 838686 part 2. Use NodeFilterHolder in treewalker and nodeiterator and start using WebIDL codegen for NodeFilter. r=peterv
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1493. # [07:26] <ewong> https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getParsedLog.php?id=20131156&tree=Mozilla-Inbound this should be i;r right?
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1496. # [07:28] * @dbaron is really hoping to get 404077 turned on sooner rather than later
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1498. # [07:28] <Jesse> dbaron: \o/
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1500. # [07:29] <@dbaron> It's faster to get data from inbound than from try, unfortunately...
1501. # [07:29] <@dbaron> And it's possible I missed a test or two that needed explicit GC calls to force the assertions-in-destructors
1502. # [07:29] <Jesse> joduinn-afk: ^
1503. # [07:30] <@dbaron> Jesse, what are you pointing him to?
1504. # [07:30] <@dbaron> Jesse, my comment about inbound being backed up?
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1508. # [07:32] <philor> that'll teach him
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1517. # [07:36] <philor> faster from inbound than try is a matter of policy that we've had for a couple of years, but only just started actually successfully doing
1518. # [07:37] <philor> the real question is "what is an unacceptable length of time for try?"
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1522. # [07:37] <philor> though it won't actually matter until Linux tests completely move to VMs, and Windows moves off minis
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1525. # [07:40] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/b082c2abd269 - Chia-hung Tai - Bug 810097 (follow-up): remove dead code as well. r=vicamo
1526. # [07:40] <bz> dbaron: btw, about -Wshadow
1527. # [07:40] <bz> dbaron: I have some files where I don't necessarily want it....
1528. # [07:40] <bz> dbaron: will that be doable?
1529. # [07:40] <@dbaron> bz, hmmm?
1530. # [07:41] <@dbaron> bz, per-directory is doable, per-file is harder
1531. # [07:41] <@dbaron> bz, but a bunch of layout directories are blocked on chromium ipc code
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1538. # [07:49] <bz> dbaron: per-directory is fine for me
1539. # [07:49] <bz> dbaron: I just want it for all webidl codegen
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1542. # [07:49] <bz> dbaron: because there can be shadowing due to nested sequences and avoiding it is hard
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1561. # [08:06] <philor> I wonder whether b2g build is owned at all
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1570. # [08:10] <@dbaron> philor, are you concerned about the intermittent red?
1571. # [08:11] <philor> dbaron: I'm concerned about my return on investment for filing it and starring it
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1573. # [08:11] <@dbaron> philor, I found the lack of useful erro message impressive
1574. # [08:11] <@dbaron> build succeeded
1575. # [08:11] <@dbaron> build failed
1576. # [08:11] <philor> our previous intermittent panda build failure is two months old, with zero comments from b2g people
1577. # [08:12] <@dbaron> oh, wait, there is a useful error higher up
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1579. # [08:13] <@dbaron> /bin/ld: error: out/target/product/panda/obj/STATIC_LIBRARIES/libc_common_intermediates/libc_common.a(abort.o): multiple definition of 'abort'
1580. # [08:13] <@dbaron> prebuilt/linux-x86/toolchain/arm-linux-androideabi-4.4.x/bin/../lib/gcc/arm-linux-androideabi/4.4.3/../../../../arm-linux-androideabi/bin/ld: out/target/product/panda/obj/STATIC_LIBRARIES/libc_common_intermediates/libc_common.a(abort_arm.o): previous definition here
1581. # [08:13] <philor> that's the way of b2g builds - wrap useful errors in a wrapper that eats them, then output a useless error
1582. # [08:14] * whimboo|afk is now known as whimboo
1583. # [08:14] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/4cf6c8896c93 - Yuan Xulei - Bug 818893 - Get caret position of the contenteditable r=djf
1584. # [08:14] <@dbaron> philor, I suppose at this point I should file it
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1586. # [08:15] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/25a2e989162c - Makoto Kato - Bug 843992 - rename nsJISX4501 to nsJISX4051. r=masayuki
1587. # [08:15] <philor> dbaron: dunno, I took their advice and clobbered, it's not entirely impossible that their bug is a lack of a dependency system, rather than that being an actual persistent failure
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1593. # [08:20] <@dbaron> Firefox decided to crash while I was picking intermittent-failure from the keyword selector, though
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1598. # [08:24] <philor> a clear sign
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1602. # [08:27] <@dbaron> well, session restore didn't restore it, but it could get pulled out of my sessionstore.js
1603. # [08:27] <@dbaron> hence https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=845705
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1606. # [08:31] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/940a3216517a - Alexander Surkov - Bug 845095 - enable logging for states/test_tree.xul
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1608. # [08:34] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/d8f64a754386 - Simon Montagu - Test for bug 841205
1609. # [08:34] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/d28370e774b7 - Simon Montagu - When unsetting dir=auto, don't clear the AncestorHasDirAuto flag on descendants if the parent itself has AncestorHasDirAuto set. Bug 844404, r=ehsan
1610. # [08:34] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/eb26563bb269 - Simon Montagu - Test for bug 844404
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1633. # [08:57] <Ms2ger> Bonjour
1634. # [08:57] <@dbaron> so the mochitest-1 orange on bz's push looks new to tinderbox
1635. # [08:57] <@dbaron> but there are two bugs on very similar things filed based on crashstats
1636. # [08:57] <@dbaron> so it might just be an intermittent
1637. # [08:58] <@dbaron> (795683, 763405)
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1648. # [09:17] <@dbaron> https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Mozilla-Inbound&jobname=b2g.*reftest-4 is not in the best of condition
1649. # [09:17] <@dbaron> I'm also pretty close to backing bz out
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1703. # [10:23] <glazou> bonjour
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1728. # [10:47] <edmorley> ewong: the bug 830931 stars were mis-stars btw
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1732. # [10:48] <ewong> edmorley: sorry.. which ones did I mis star?
1733. # [10:49] <edmorley> ewong: the last three stars in bug 830931
1734. # [10:49] * whimboo|afk is now known as whimboo
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1736. # [10:49] * ChanServ sets mode: +o ted
1737. # [10:49] <edmorley> ewong: it's a new failure
1738. # [10:49] <ewong> edmorley: ah.. sorry..
1739. # [10:50] <ewong> edmorley: is there a way to undo that?
1740. # [10:50] <edmorley> ewong: that's ok, just wanted to make sure we didn't miss any more instances :-)
1741. # [10:50] <edmorley> ewong: there isn't but it doesn't matter for now, I'm going to figure out what caused these new assertions and back it out
1742. # [10:51] <Ms2ger`> edmorley, you'll love the fatal assertions in mochitests
1743. # [10:51] <ewong> edmorley: ok. thanks for the heads up..
1744. # [10:51] <edmorley> Ms2ger`: heh :-)
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1746. # [10:52] <Ms2ger`> Especially the assertions that happen during GC
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1755. # [11:00] <smontagu> the number of changesets requiring clobber is TOO DAMN HIGH
1756. # [11:00] <Ms2ger`> "requiring"
1757. # [11:00] <smontagu> yes, exactly
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1763. # [11:04] <mrbkap> smontagu: I think that typo warrents a clobber!
1764. # [11:05] <mrbkap> warrants, even :/
1765. # [11:05] <smontagu> mrbkap: hoist by your own petard there
1766. # [11:07] * Ms2ger` clobbers mrbkap
1767. # [11:08] * Joins: Mnyromyr (MnyroWork@moz-E2E3FF3D.tal.de)
1768. # [11:08] <mrbkap> That's a corollary of Murphy's law, I think.
1769. # [11:09] * Joins: MrDHat (quassel@24F3B4BA.77997C7E.50E99975.IP)
1770. # [11:09] <NeilAway> sfink--
1771. # [11:10] <smontagu> more seriously, i can't build even with clobber :( someone want to checkin https://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/a2e147b93af6 to moz-central?
1772. # [11:11] <Ms2ger`> Do you want to watch m-c?
1773. # [11:11] <NeilAway> oops, calculation error
1774. # [11:11] <NeilAway> sfink++
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1777. # [11:12] <smontagu> Ms2ger`: no, I want to go and have lunch during my build
1778. # [11:12] <Ms2ger`> Apply the patch locally, then :)
1779. # [11:12] * Joins: chrisccoulson (chr1s@moz-6A3A134E.cust-13020.ip.static.uno.uk.net)
1780. # [11:12] <smontagu> done and done
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1782. # [11:13] <glazou> hi smontagu
1783. # [11:13] <smontagu> bonjour glazou
1784. # [11:13] <glazou> smontagu: progress on writing modes?
1785. # [11:13] <smontagu> glazou: slowly slowly
1786. # [11:14] <glazou> ah...
1787. # [11:14] <glazou> I met some people in NYC really interested in trying to embed Gecko in an ebook reader if writing modes are in
1788. # [11:14] <glazou> I mean a portable device
1789. # [11:16] <Mitch> If only there was some kind of Gecko operating system around.
1790. # [11:16] * Quits: cpearce (chatzilla@moz-FC66E8A9.xdsl.xnet.co.nz) (Ping timeout)
1791. # [11:22] <edmorley> lol
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1793. # [11:26] <mikedeboer> I started at Mozilla two days ago and had to recompile the ENTIRE thing four times already
1794. # [11:26] <annevk> mikedeboer: welkom
1795. # [11:27] <Ms2ger`> More Dutch?
1796. # [11:27] <annevk> Ms2ger`: apparently so
1797. # [11:27] <mikedeboer> I'm now at the point that I feel nauseous when I see the word 'clobber' mentioned anywhere!
1798. # [11:27] <Ms2ger`> Anyway, you know how it says "if you know what you're doing, copy the clobber file"?
1799. # [11:27] <mikedeboer> jazeker!
1800. # [11:27] <Ms2ger`> Just do that
1801. # [11:27] <mikedeboer> alright
1802. # [11:27] <Unfocused> best. hazing. EVAR.
1803. # [11:27] <Unfocused> ;)
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1805. # [11:28] * Ms2ger` whacks Unfocused
1806. # [11:28] <glazou> mikedeboer: 4 only ?-)
1807. # [11:28] <Unfocused> mikedeboer: its very rarely that bad, fwiw
1808. # [11:29] <mikedeboer> haha, only 4 indeed
1809. # [11:29] <mikedeboer> annevk: thanks :)
1810. # [11:29] <Ms2ger`> Also, you probably didn't need to update your tree twice a day ;)
1811. # [11:29] <Unfocused> and i think people have been a bit overzealous with touching the clobber file lately
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1813. # [11:30] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/622278b04c18 - Ed Morley - Backed out changeset d9d90bf85bcf (bug 845569) for bug839758.js assertions
1814. # [11:30] <glazou> Unfocused: stop, he said "nauseous" :-)
1815. # [11:31] <Unfocused> heh, sorry
1816. # [11:31] <Ms2ger`> Does that make Unfocused nauseating?
1817. # [11:31] <mikedeboer> glazou: haha, thanks to Ms2ger` I feel way better now
1818. # [11:31] <glazou> Ms2ger`: only when he has a concussion
1819. # [11:31] <Unfocused> ^ this
1820. # [11:32] <edmorley> Unfocused: ideally we'd have per platform clobber
1821. # [11:32] <Unfocused> ah, that'd be nice
1822. # [11:32] <edmorley> since most of the time it's only one platform (I'd hazzard a guess as to Android several times this week)
1823. # [11:32] <jfkthame> ideally, we'd have a build system that actually works
1824. # [11:32] <mikedeboer> is there a doc somewhere where I can read and learn all about the clobber?
1825. # [11:32] <edmorley> well that too
1826. # [11:33] <Unfocused> heh...
1827. # [11:33] <edmorley> jfkthame: hopefully tup will solve much of that
1828. # [11:33] <edmorley> mikedeboer: in what sense? :-)
1829. # [11:33] <edmorley> mikedeboer: clobbering locally, or the clobberer webapp used to clobber build machines? I presume the former?
1830. # [11:34] <mikedeboer> edmorley: not so much about its nauseating qualities, but more so what it does. locally I mean
1831. # [11:34] <Ms2ger`> jfkthame, you must be new here
1832. # [11:34] <jfkthame> :P
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1834. # [11:34] <glazou> lol
1835. # [11:36] <edmorley> mikedeboer: for changes where we either think (or more likely know, since we saw them break on our infrastructure builds) that they need a clobber, we change the 'CLOBBER' file in the source repo root, such that the mtime is newer than that in your object directory, which is what results in the message you will have seen
1836. # [11:37] <mikedeboer> edmorley: can't get any clearer than that. Thanks!
1837. # [11:37] <edmorley> mikedeboer: yw :-)
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1890. # [12:39] <firebot> Check-in:
1891. # [12:39] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/abffab917ab7 - Fernando Jiménez - Bug 844243 - Installing a packaged app in which the mini-manifest app name is different than the webapp manifest app name is allowed, but should not be; r=fabrice
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1894. # [12:41] <avih> jmaher|afk: ping on tscroll. it shows regression on a patch of mine, i think the test can be improved.
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1903. # [12:51] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/05c35dc73323 - Robert O'Callahan - Bug 845526. Limit complexity of invalid region in RemoveFrameFromLayerManager. r=mattwoodrow
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1905. # [12:51] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/622b744e5df9 - Robert O'Callahan - Bug 829557. Part 2: Allow plugin code to reenter Gecko safely while while the plugin is processing an input event. r=bsmedberg
1906. # [12:51] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/f73b7b8d1a2d - Robert O'Callahan - Bug 829557. Part 1: When calling into plugin code, identify situations where it is safe (or unsafe) to reenter Gecko from plugin code. r=bsmedberg
1907. # [12:51] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/dba7a059ed22 - Robert O'Callahan - Bug 843214. Make SourceMediaStream::AddTrack/AppendToTrack/HaveEnoughBuffered/DispatchWhenNotEnoughBuffered/EndTrack smoothly handle cases where track does not
1908. # [12:51] <firebot> exist. r=jesup
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1910. # [12:53] <jesup> roc: thanks. Was just getting ready to land it. (fell asleep...)
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The end :)