/irc-logs / mozilla / #developers / 2013-04-03 / end

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# Session Start: Wed Apr 03 00:00:00 2013
# Session Ident: #developers
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# [00:00] <mwargers> smaug, but the focus() call has to be called from chrome, if I understand your comments correctly
# [00:00] <@smaug> oh, there is some focus() call
# [00:00] <mwargers> yes, there is
# [00:00] <mwargers> but it is called from inside the app
# [00:01] * @smaug doesn't know where http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/testing/mochitest/tests/SimpleTest/TestRunner.js#240 runs
# [00:01] <@smaug> ah, is that in content
# [00:01] <mwargers> smaug, that is run from the mochitest app, afaik
# [00:01] <@smaug> right, I'd expect some chrome Js to call focus()
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# [00:02] <mwargers> smaug, yeah, so somewhere in shell.js?
# [00:02] * @smaug doesn't know what is shell.js
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# [00:02] <@smaug> is that that top level chrome script in b2g
# [00:02] <RyanVM> tanvi: https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?rev=400370bbc9fa&tree=Mozilla-Aurora
# [00:02] <RyanVM> tanvi: post-merge I'd say
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# [00:02] <RyanVM> tanvi: for future reference, the top of the log links to tbpl for that push
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# [00:03] <@smaug> mwargers: I *think* chrome needs to make sure the correct iframe is focused and then call activateRemoteFrame() on the right frameloader
# [00:03] <@smaug> assuming this is about out-of-process stuff
# [00:03] <mwargers> yes it is about out-of-process
# [00:04] <mwargers> ok, thanks for the pointer
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# [00:05] <mwargers> activateRemoteFrame doesn't seem to be used at all in mxr
# [00:05] <@smaug> hmm, it should be
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# [00:06] <@smaug> or, I thought test.xul would use it
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# [00:07] <mwargers> smaug, see http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/search?string=activateRemoteFrame
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# [00:07] <@smaug> that is surprising
# [00:07] <@smaug> obviously I don't know how focus handling works with b2g
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# [00:08] <mwargers> me neither
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# [00:12] <tanvi> RyanVM: thanks!
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# [00:23] * philor rubs at his CSS-induced headache
# [00:25] <philor> what did we expect to happen when the width was less than enough for two columns in http://hg.mozilla.org/webtools/tbpl/annotate/b4a55da8e9e1/css/style.css#l490, why did we used to get overflow-x, and why do we not anymore?
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# [00:26] <sfink> I dunno, why does trychooser wrap the load columns to outside of the containing <li>?
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# [00:45] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-beta/rev/dfd9d55369da - Till Schneidereit - Bug 853417 - Prevent self-hosted scripts from ever being visible to client scripts. r=jimb, a=bajaj
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# [01:35] <rillian> we don't seem to enforce allowed elements when inserting into the dom. Is there a reason not to?
# [01:35] <rillian> e.g. document.body.appendChild(document.createElement('source')); succeeds
# [01:35] <rillian> even though <source> is only meaningful inside an <audio> or <video>
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# [01:40] <seth> closed again! drat
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# [01:41] <mbrubeck> It looks pretty caught up to me...
# [01:42] <mbrubeck> oh, still waiting on robocop I guess
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# [01:45] <nsm> johns: would checking for the pref before the PushService component is initialized help with bug 857135
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# [01:46] <johns> nsm: Possibly. The most likely source of the usage is the extra JS components, right?
# [01:47] <nsm> i really don't know, i've no experience with memory tools, how do i start to figure it out?
# [01:49] <johns> nsm: about:memory should show you what's allocated, if you click on the dots on AWSY from before and after the spike you can look at differences in the about:memory results
# [01:49] <nsm> ok
# [01:49] <reuben> gps: what causes mach to not colorize the output of tests?
# [01:49] <johns> nsm: jlebar/njn might be able to help more in #memshrink as well
# [01:49] <fabrice1> nsm: how much is the difference?
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# [01:49] <nsm> fabrice1: 0.7mb
# [01:51] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/a2c84336476f - Jim Blandy - Bug 847656: Change ContentParent::GetNewOrUsed to return an already_AddRefed value. r=khuey
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# [01:53] <nsm> johns: on awsy how do i find my commit in that graph? :/
# [01:54] <mbrubeck> seth: Tree is open again. :)
# [01:54] <gps> reuben: for mach to colorize tests, the mach command must "pipe" output into mach's logging facility. I believe xpcshell-tests does this by the mochitest commands do not. 2nd, it only colorizes if the current terminal supports colorization. if you are piping output, no colors will be generated. also, colors aren't supported on Windows (yet)
# [01:54] <seth> mbrubeck: cool, thanks!
# [01:54] * mattwoodrow|away is now known as mattwoodrow
# [01:54] <jhammel> gps: when will my line printer be supported?!? :P
# [01:54] <mbrubeck> I guess 20% green counts as green for robocop. :P
# [01:55] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/8a36c455dd90 - Seth Fowler - Bug 857275 - Remove RasterImage::FrameUpdated. r=jrmuizel
# [01:55] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/a5b87fd28e70 - Ehsan Akhgari - Bug 856771 - Protect the source buffer nodes from leaking when their binding goes away without being played back; r=roc
# [01:55] <johns> nsm: It's the small bump in the start lines on April 1st ~18:20GMT
# [01:55] <jmaher> mbrubeck: the old 80/20 rule
# [01:55] <reuben> gps: I see, thanks. it isn't colorizing mochitest-chrome for me and I thought it was before, but maybe it was just a different type of test
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# [01:56] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/049792ba0737 - Shane Caraveo - bug 836452 implement service install panel, cleanup activation panel. r=markh
# [01:56] <johns> nsm: There's an issue filed to make it easier to link to builds and such on AWSY, but it's annoying right now
# [01:57] <gps> reuben: we just changed mach mochitest-* to invoke the Python test runner natively. it's possible we regressed where output goes
# [01:57] <gps> please file a bug
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# [01:58] <Jesse> mrbkap: are we actually doing this "Shadow DOM" thing? i'm afraid it's going to introduce way more bugs than it's worth, like XBL.
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# [01:58] <jlebar> nsm: To avoid a memory regression, we should avoid loading any JS at all.
# [01:59] <jlebar> nsm: Sorry, I should have thought of this before.
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# [02:02] <Hixie> is Soumya Deb ever on IRC? (are they a mozilla community regular?)
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# [02:03] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/81d4bd15053d - Steve Workman - Bug 855064 - Exclude DASH code from default builds r=cpearce
# [02:03] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/7a9087d86d45 - Steve Workman - Bug 855064 - Remove DASH references in media unit tests r=cpearce
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# [02:03] <mbrubeck> !seen Debloper
# [02:03] <firebot> debloper was last seen 2 weeks, 2 days, 3 hours, 37 minutes and 15 seconds ago, saying 'devlover: welcome :)' in #introduction.
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# [02:03] <Hixie> mbrubeck: thanks
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# [02:06] <tbsaunde> so, what are my options for installing python 2.7 on centos 6?
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# [02:07] <gps> tbsaunde: did you run python/mozboot/bin/bootstrap.py?
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# [02:07] <gps> it supports centos IIRC
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# [02:08] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/4e4530c95708 - Terrence Cole - Bug 843907 - Move MapObject and SetObject's key to manual post-barriers; r=jorendorff
# [02:08] <nsm> jlebar: so i'd need to add a pref check in the code that loads the Push code?
# [02:09] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/d493e9a3a96c - Shane Caraveo - bug 856772 fix japanese/chinese/etc text in social manifests. r=gavin
# [02:10] <tbsaunde> gps: didn't think of that, but I grabed the link to the releng rpm out of an irc log
# [02:11] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/e8abe42df0dc - matekm - Bug 784739 - Switch from NULL to nullptr in editor/; r=ehsan
# [02:11] <gps> tbsaunde: I'm pretty sure the one we use in mozboot is provided by the CentOS people. I'd trust their package over who-knows-what-we-did-to-build-ours
# [02:13] <tbsaunde> gps: well, depends what you want to trust it with, I'd sort of trust the one we did whatever with more to build the tree since build slaves do it zillions of times a day
# [02:13] <tbsaunde> but to be a actual python sure
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# [02:14] <gps> tbsaunde: Python is very fickle about paths when it is installed. I wouldn't be surprised if releng's Python has references to releng-y paths that only exist on builders
# [02:14] <gps> I'm saying this after seeing a long history of subtle Python bustage on our automation
# [02:15] <gps> quite frankly, I trust the CentOS people to build a proper system Python package more than I trust that our build is acceptable to be a system Python package for any CentOS install
# [02:16] <tbsaunde> gps: understandable
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# [02:17] <tbsaunde> on the other hand I want this chroot to mimic a build slave as closely as is reasonable since its easy enough to do
# [02:17] * jhammel perks up
# [02:17] <gps> tbsaunde: is that case, proceed!
# [02:17] <jhammel> tbsaunde: orly? don't suppose you've been jotting down the recipe?
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# [02:18] * gps grumbles that we should offer a vagrant config in the tree or something
# [02:18] <jhammel> cuz that would be, and pardon my French, bad ass
# [02:18] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/2ab6aaf3ed13 - matekm - Bug 784739 - Switch from NULL to nullptr in b2g/; r=ehsan
# [02:18] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/832de954da6a - matekm - Bug 784739 - Switch from NULL to nullptr in caps/; r=ehsan
# [02:18] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/275cff0aef99 - matekm - Bug 784739 - Switch from NULL to nullptr in chrome/; r=ehsan
# [02:18] <jhammel> gps: i wouldn't mind that either; though really only see much of an advantage if there was parity assurance between the tree and what is (supposed to be) on slaves
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# [02:19] <rhelmer> gps: I like vagrant a lot, but it's really painful to keep up to date over time (distros upgrades, package name changes etc)
# [02:20] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/72ed3ec3c90b - Mark Finkle - Bug 856728 - TopSitesView.java executes a DB cursor on the main thread r=lucasr
# [02:20] <rhelmer> oracle making all the distros pull java then making it hard to automatically install made a huge mess in one of my projects vagrant setup
# [02:20] <gps> jhammel, rhelmer: to answer both your concerns, we shouldn't be changing the build environment that often. maybe once every month or two at the most
# [02:20] <tbsaunde> jhammel: so far it doesn't seem to hard, I'm just installing relengs rpms on what rinse gave me
# [02:20] <rhelmer> gps: if you use rhel compatible or ubuntu lts it's not too bad
# [02:21] <gps> every time we change a package on the build configuration it introduces a possibility for regression
# [02:21] <firebot> Check-in:
# [02:21] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/9766915502fb - Tanvi Vyas - Bug 855730 - To determine the root of the intermittent failures in the last mochitest from bug 840388, rearrange the tests so that the failing test is not the last test.
# [02:21] <firebot> Do this by first running the tests with the mixed active content allowed and then run them with mixed active content blocked. r=smaug
# [02:22] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/f8a7c4c4874d - Boris Zbarsky - Bug 856833 part 1. Make JS_ObjectIsDate use ObjectClassIs. r=waldo
# [02:22] <rhelmer> gps: for some webdev projects we have jenkins build a vagrant VM and test it, since it's just a way to script VM creation it's a nice way to make a test env and publish those instructions
# [02:22] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/4134cb96116d - Boris Zbarsky - Bug 856833 part 2. Make JS_ObjectIsRegExp use ObjectClassIs. r=waldo
# [02:22] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/125fb548eaba - Boris Zbarsky - Bug 856215. Fix conversion of sequences of sequences to JS to not screw up its indexing. r=khuey
# [02:22] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/ec0ffeafb128 - Boris Zbarsky - Bug 855582 part 1. Make JS_DefineFunctions and JS_DefineProperties take const function specs and property specs respectively. r=waldo
# [02:22] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/3ad41b35ab80 - Boris Zbarsky - Bug 856833 part 3. Rip out no longer needed proxy-unwrapping code. r=waldo
# [02:22] <Waldo> firebot: quiet, you
# [02:22] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/b6771a98037b - Boris Zbarsky - Bug 855582 part 2. Make the bindings' various spec arrays const, and make the jitinfo structs static. r=khuey
# [02:22] <rhelmer> gps: that is one way to catch regressions early
# [02:23] <firebot> Waldo: Sorry, I've no idea what 'quiet, you' might be.
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# [02:24] * rhelmer was just thinking about updating the emscripten vagrant setup, such a pain though
# [02:26] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/16af89e4b032 - matekm - Bug 784739 - Switch from NULL to nullptr in embedding/; r=ehsan
# [02:26] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/5b2c0b85aea3 - matekm - Bug 784739 - Switch from NULL to nullptr in docshell/; r=ehsan
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# [02:31] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/6120f41441ff - matekm - Bug 784739 - Switch from NULL to nullptr in accessible/; r=ehsan
# [02:31] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/1aee691b14b7 - Matthew Gregan - Bug 855570 - Deprecate Audio Data API. r=ehsan
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# [02:33] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/6786a2fc7351 - Ehsan Akhgari - Bug 857302 - Enable Web Audio in Fennec Aurora/Nightly; r=roc
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# [02:35] <Waldo> hmm, is tbpl for inbound giving a loading-failed error for anyone else?
# [02:36] <wg9s> it is giving lodaing faild on mozilla-central for me
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# [02:36] <Waldo> did I pick *just* the right time to land a bunch'o'stuff then? ;-)
# [02:37] <wg9s> i presume this is related to the issue in bug 856393
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# [02:38] <Waldo> ah
# [02:38] * philor tries to come up with a new joke for "use treestatus, served from the generic cluster, to close trees because tbpl, served from the generic cluster, is busted"
# [02:38] <philor> and fails, clearly
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# [02:39] <froydnj> probably just as well to give inbound a little time to catch up...
# [02:39] * Waldo declares victory on the patch-front for himself
# [02:39] <jlebar> fabrice1: ping re bug 852848; we can talk tomorrow if you're headed out now
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# [02:39] <Waldo> and if my stuff busts, it built locally against the revision where the tree was closed 3h or so
# [02:39] <fabrice1> jlebar: I'm still there
# [02:39] <catlee-away> philor: yeah, that's probably not an ideal arrangement...
# [02:40] <jlebar> fabrice1: I guess we should pm since it's a security bug
# [02:40] <philor> catlee-away: I know - I'd use the obvious "cluster" jokes, but that quickly gets beyond even my rather broad comfort zone
# [02:40] <philor> oh, *that* that
# [02:41] <philor> thought you meant the serious that, my lack of another joke
# [02:41] <catlee-away> well, I'd love to see it :)
# [02:41] <wg9s> philor: so is the tree closed?
# [02:41] <Waldo> yes, if it could be closed, from the sounds of it
# [02:42] <wg9s> reason i ask is if it is the bug should probably have an importance of blocker rather than major.
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# [02:44] <Waldo> I'd be in favor of that
# [02:44] <@ehsan> what did I do to the tree this time?
# [02:44] * ewong|away is now known as ewong
# [02:44] <Waldo> same thing we do every night to the tree, ehsan
# [02:44] <@ehsan> shame on me
# [02:44] <@ehsan> I never learn
# [02:44] <Waldo> ...and that cultural reference probably just went over your head :-)
# [02:44] <Waldo> ehsan: yeah, we all need to stop pushing patches
# [02:44] <@ehsan> heh, I think it did ;)
# [02:45] <@ehsan> I just pushed what like 20 patches?
# [02:45] <@ehsan> the tree should be able to take that just fine
# [02:45] <@bz_dinner> hrm
# [02:45] <@bz_dinner> hg anno is slow. :(
# [02:45] <@ehsan> yay, in other news, I can finally see my review queue without scrolling!
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# [02:45] <@ehsan> bz_dinner: use gi... ah you probably know my answer already
# [02:46] <benjamin> then annotate is fast and deletes your wc!
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# [02:46] <@ehsan> bz_dinner: but really, use fugitive.vim, and you'll never look back
# [02:46] <heycam> how long are logs-through-tbpl valid for? I have a build from yesterday open in tbpl but clicking "view brief/full log" brings me to an empty page.
# [02:46] <heycam> build directory shows the logs there though...
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# [02:47] <@ehsan> Waldo: PodOperations... fancy stuff!
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# [02:47] <wg9s> oh and using treestatus worked well cause that gets "500 Internal Server Error."
# [02:47] <Waldo> ehsan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX8A2j3jDqg is the reference, the "what do we want to do tonight...same thing we do every night..." bit was in every episode
# [02:48] <Waldo> ehsan: eh, not too fancy -- just getting tired of sizeof multiplications and memcpy everywhere
# [02:48] <@dbaron> did something break running individual mochitests?
# [02:48] * nthomas|away is now known as nthomas
# [02:48] <@ehsan> Waldo: yeah if I had a penny for every time I got those wrong ;)
# [02:48] <Waldo> also that was a bear to move out of js/, because gazillions of files use the stuff, and I had to deal with the namespace-change for every one of them
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# [02:49] <@ehsan> Waldo: so shall we start using these in new code?
# [02:50] <Waldo> ehsan: once we're sure the tree's green ;-)
# [02:50] <@ehsan> that's overrated ;)
# [02:50] <@ehsan> Waldo: please post to dev.platform to let others know about this goodness
# [02:50] <wg9s> ah but suddenly all is working again!
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# [02:50] <Waldo> the move was basically just a move, but some of the non-overlap changes were changey enough that workingness is not a 100% guarantee
# [02:51] <Waldo> some try-pushes flushed out those issues, I believe, but you never know
# [02:51] <@dbaron> gps, so you broke "make makefiles DIRS=tools/jprof" as a trick for starting to build jprof in a tree that didn't previously have it enabled
# [02:51] <Waldo> yeah, wil do
# [02:51] <@ehsan> Waldo: ta
# [02:51] <Waldo> s/wil/will/
# [02:51] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/e56f91d780df - matekm - Bug 784739 - Switch from NULL to nullptr in browser/; r=ehsan
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# [02:53] <froydnj> ehsan: are you trying to have the entire push page taken up by your pushes?
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# [02:53] * froydnj keeps losing push races with ehsan
# [02:53] <@ehsan> froydnj: I'm already there
# [02:53] <@ehsan> next step, take over the world!
# [02:54] <@ehsan> froydnj: be quick, I have another patch in the works ;)
# [02:54] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/c2715e049b3c - Nathan Froyd - Bug 839383 - part 2 - factor out CGImageRef creation code in SourceSurfaceCG.cpp; r=jrmuizel
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# [02:54] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/b06fa2317215 - Nathan Froyd - Bug 839383 - part 3 - inline AssignSurfaceParametersFromFormat into its only caller; r=jrmuizel
# [02:54] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/3b354780c5ac - Nathan Froyd - Bug 839383 - part 1 - fix unhandled enumeration values in SourceSurfaceCG.cpp; r=jrmuizel
# [02:55] * froydnj wins
# [02:55] <@ehsan> ted: just so you know, I reserve the right to be mean to people who keep using NSPR types...
# [02:55] <@ehsan> ted: with regard to your gamepad API patches ;)
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# [02:56] <Waldo> heh
# [02:56] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/88288ea65ef8 - Steve Fink - Bug 822041 - Do not copy hasPushedSPSFrame() from heap generator frame. r=luke
# [02:56] <sfink> Ok, someone else's turn to hold off ehsan next
# [02:57] <@ehsan> sfink: too late
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# [02:57] * wg9s reserves the right to be mean to anyone,as He IS the Arrogant Bastard (You're not worthy)!
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# [02:57] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/fb7aae8421bc - Ehsan Akhgari - Bug 579517 follow-up: Remove NSPR types that crept in
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# [02:58] <sfink> dang
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# [02:59] <@ted> ehsan: sorry, i thought i eradicated them all
# [02:59] <@ted> that's what happens when you have a 1+ year old set of patches :-(
# [02:59] <@ehsan> ted: np, I cleaned it up
# [03:00] <@ted> do you know how many mass-changes i had to refactor that across
# [03:00] <Waldo> heh
# [03:00] <@ehsan> ted: a few? ;)
# [03:00] <@ted> PRBool, stdint types
# [03:00] <Waldo> progress! of a sort
# [03:00] <@ehsan> man
# [03:00] <@ehsan> this was from before PRBool?
# [03:00] <@ted> yup
# [03:00] <@ehsan> yikes
# [03:00] <Waldo> PRBool was like September 2011, man
# [03:00] <@ehsan> ted: ok I won't be mean to you this one time
# [03:00] <Waldo> haha
# [03:00] <@ehsan> but JUST THIS ONCE
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# [03:00] <Waldo> pocket your rage for later
# [03:01] <@ted> Add DOM Joystick events (47.84 KB, patch)
# [03:01] <@ted> 2011-07-28 13:25 PDT, Ted Mielczarek [:ted.mielczarek]
# [03:01] * wg9s apologizes for the interruption by the beer commercial there! It just seemed to fit!
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# [03:02] <@ted> took me forever to land that :-/
# [03:02] <mwu> wow, it's been that long since prbool
# [03:03] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/e0d063f04ee2 - matekm - Bug 784739 - Switch from NULL to nullptr in extensions/; r=ehsan
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# [03:07] <philor> inbound's closed for a little cooling off period
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# [03:09] * philor considers yet again whether we should just have the base state of all trees be METERED
# [03:09] <ewong> whoa.. what a backlog
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# [03:11] <mjrosenb> philor: METERED?
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# [03:12] <philor> we used to do metered landings after an extended closure, like back when we used to close the trunk before the then-equivalent of a merge
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# [03:13] <Waldo> if we didn't have multi-hour closures every day we'd probably be fine
# [03:13] <philor> you'd sign up on a wiki page when you had something to push, and when the sheriff felt like he had enough space following the previous push, he'd start down the list pinging people until he got to one that was awake, and they'd push their stuff
# [03:13] <philor> yeah, and if we were fine we wouldn't have multi-hour closures every day
# [03:13] <Waldo> if it was only five minutes of ha^H^Hclosure at a time it wouldn't be so bad
# [03:13] <Waldo> yup
# [03:14] <tbsaunde> Waldo: sure, but how do we prevent them?
# [03:14] <Waldo> no idea
# [03:14] <philor> we could do five minute closures, just slightly amend that plan for inbound from before it existed
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# [03:14] <Waldo> somehow cloning the one or two record/replay boxes we still have running and having a team of people just work on intermittents would help some
# [03:14] <tbsaunde> philor: not sure I understand
# [03:15] <philor> rather than "the sheriff will back out everything that landed after any busted patch and then reland it" make it "if you land on something that turned out to be busted, you'll be backed out and you'll have to land again later"
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# [03:15] <Waldo> more inbounds would help with bustages that trigger tree closures
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# [03:15] <Waldo> checkin volume is much higher than it was a few years ago
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# [03:17] <philor> tbsaunde: most of our long closures are because of bustage-on-bustage, or because we don't know whether or not bustage was landed on bustage; the original plan was going to solve that by screwing over the sheriff, telling him to close for just a second, back out everything that landed on bustage along with the cause of the bustage, and then reopen, and then push-race with everyone to reland all the stuff he had just backed out
# [03:17] <philor> faster, and a perfect plan just as soon as we hire six or eight more paid sheriffs, and triple the slave capacity
# [03:18] <jhammel> (working on it)
# [03:18] <tbsaunde> philor: oh, yeah forgot about that idea
# [03:18] <philor> reopened, though I'll regret it
# [03:18] * Waldo idly wonders what people 200 years ago would think of our calling them slaves
# [03:18] <wg9s> That plan would all be fine if soem of the builds did not take so long to complete.
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# [03:18] <philor> it was pretty easy to forget, since it didn't even survive the very first instance of bustage on inbound
# [03:19] <philor> nor did "back out, don't fix"
# [03:19] <wg9s> and if peopel would not scheck in if there were more than x number of checkins before them without competed builds and tests.
# [03:19] <tbsaunde> philor: so another problem is bustage that your not sure when it started
# [03:19] <jhammel> Waldo: i'm sure they'd prefer it to calling them slaves
# [03:19] <@dolske> permametered is an interesting idea, seems quite reasonable to say "X changes have landed since the last *mumble*", I suppose the question is what *mumble* should be.
# [03:19] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/6af3167805da - Mark Hammond - Bug 847094 - fix intermittent chat test failures by waiting for content load event. r=felipe
# [03:19] <Waldo> jhammel: aha! pronoun trouble
# [03:20] <wg9s> we seem to have persiods when the tree is open and no one checks in for almost a day and other times when 30 pepole decide to check in within the same hour i dont; quite get this
# [03:20] <@dolske> I also think it's inevitable that we'll need to have multiple inbounds (eg per team/project/area).
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# [03:21] <philor> we could call one of them fx-team, and give it two pushes per day!
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# [03:21] <jhammel> well, i think it's inevitable we'll need more of an integration, and yeah, i know its a bad word, *strategy*
# [03:21] <Waldo> the tracemonkey model might almost work again, with better tools for marking bugs as fixed now (mcmerge and so)
# [03:21] <@dolske> yeah, that was the intent of fx-team, but inbound was far more convienent for people. /
# [03:21] <Waldo> we dropped TM because merging to central was too painful
# [03:21] <@dolske> tracemonkey is the better-example I was thinking of.
# [03:22] <philor> I'm *really* looking forward to meeting the person who has to merge between inbound-1 and inbound-5
# [03:22] <jhammel> philor: yeah, exactly
# [03:22] <Waldo> it's true
# [03:22] <jhammel> everyone loves the strategy until they have to do it
# [03:22] <@dolske> we'd have to have some suggestions (rules?) about what can land where, to avoid merge-conflict hell.
# [03:22] <ewong> philor then you'd *really* need a lot more sheriffs..
# [03:23] <tbsaunde> philor: presumabl if you break it up by type of change then the person doing the merge knows something about the changes they want to merge in
# [03:23] <@ehsan> yeah, philor is right, multiple inbounds is a terrible idea
# [03:24] <@ehsan> because: 1. it adds exponential merge pain
# [03:24] <@dolske> merge pain only happens if you let it.
# [03:24] <@ehsan> 2. it diminishes our infra capacity even faster, because of additional merges and fewer chances to coalesce
# [03:24] <@ehsan> dolske: if you let it?
# [03:25] <@dolske> what I wrote like, 5 lines up?
# [03:25] <tbsaunde> dolske: it will increase it some, but presumably its managable since linux does it
# [03:25] <@ehsan> dolske: I'd be curious to know what those rules are ;)
# [03:25] <Waldo> mm
# [03:25] <Waldo> I haz one green!
# [03:25] <@dolske> this is all standard stuff for companies with large products, I'm not sure why is seems to shocking.
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# [03:26] <@ehsan> dolske: no my question was serious
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# [03:26] <tbsaunde> ehsan: so there's an interesting twist which is that currently load I'd guess isn't constant because of long closures
# [03:26] <@ehsan> maybe but large closures *will* happen with multiple inbounds too
# [03:26] <@dolske> ehsan: say, all /js/* changes land in inbound-js, all /toolkit/* changes land in inbound-toolkit, and all general refactorings land in a shared inbound-whatever with closures as needed to prevent conflicts
# [03:27] <@ehsan> dolske: tons of patches that I write touch multiple top level dirs
# [03:27] <philor> where do /js/* + /xpconnect/* + /dom/* changes land?
# [03:27] <@dolske> if you've got a giant project with commits happening ever minute or two 24/7, I don't see how a single shared tree would ever scale.
# [03:27] <@ehsan> js is a special case
# [03:27] <@ehsan> since it's mostly an isolated world
# [03:27] <@dolske> ehsan is a special case. :)
# [03:27] <@ehsan> no I'm not, really
# [03:28] <@ehsan> we've seen this model not work for fx-team
# [03:28] <@ehsan> since people have been pushing browser/ stuff to m-i ever since fx-team was created
# [03:28] <@dolske> it didn't work because inbound was easier to use -- why use a team project branch if there's a better alternative?
# [03:28] <tbsaunde> ehsan: maybe that's an argument for a rule browser/ changes have to go to fx-team
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# [03:29] <@ehsan> dolske: how is inbound easier than fx-team for developers?
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# [03:29] <@ehsan> tbsaunde: that's my point, people did make up that rule, and many people just ignored it
# [03:29] <@dolske> because permasheriffs manage it for "free"
# [03:29] <philor> unlike fx-team, where you have to star your own?
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# [03:30] <Waldo> ehsan: JS is a mostly isolated world if we can ignore XPConnect and the DOM
# [03:30] <@ehsan> dolske: oh ok, that's a good point, but presumably all devs don't merge fx-team right?
# [03:30] * philor looks for a monitor wipe
# [03:30] <@dolske> why have N people deal with stuff when you can "just" let philor deal with it?
# [03:30] <tbsaunde> ehsan: was there such a rule? I didn't know of it
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# [03:30] <philor> dolske: do you know the number for N?
# [03:30] <Waldo> ehsan: but they tend to hook deeply into us, so there's not really isolation
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# [03:30] <@ehsan> dolske: well, multiple inbounds won't mean multiple philors ;)
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# [03:30] <philor> depending on whether you mean merging or starring, it's between 1 and 0
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# [03:30] <@ehsan> so the same story will apply
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# [03:31] <@ehsan> the root of all of our problems is coalescing
# [03:32] <@dolske> the point is that is that inbound isn't free, that's FAR more obvious than it was historically, and it's a different environment now.
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# [03:32] <@ehsan> which is caused by insufficient capacity
# [03:32] <philor> the root of all our problems is broken patches
# [03:32] <@ehsan> so anything to make even less efficient use of the current capacity will make things worse
# [03:32] <Waldo> so far we're doing pretty well post-original-opening, all green but for one intermittent orange
# [03:32] <tbsaunde> ehsan: there are other costs to all using one tree (rebaseing and probably other things)
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# [03:33] <@ehsan> tbsaunde: I'd consider those costs negligible compared to other problems we're dealing with right now
# [03:33] <tbsaunde> ehsan: somewhat yes
# [03:34] <tbsaunde> ehsan: so I'm not completely convinced we make great use of the hardware we have given that patches tend to come in intermitant floods with the long closures
# [03:34] <@ehsan> dolske: one thing which we did not scale up well is the ratio of the number of checkins to our perma-sheriffs
# [03:35] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/63453515a870 - Benjamin Peterson - Bug 830389 - Switch to the right compartment before reporting an error. r=billm
# [03:35] <@ehsan> dolske: the other thing (I think, not 100% sure) is the ratio of our capacity to the number of checkins
# [03:35] <@ehsan> dolske: I'd start by addressing one of those if I were to make our trees healthier
# [03:36] <@ehsan> although at this point the latter hurts much more than the former
# [03:36] <@ehsan> tbsaunde: we don't but that's another conversation
# [03:36] <@dolske> sure, but you still run into other limitations. I don't know how it would ever be possible to manage a single tree when you have checkins every minute (some %age of which have issues), and end-to-end build times stay long.
# [03:36] <tbsaunde> ehsan: not really?
# [03:37] <@ehsan> dolske: note that fixing those two problems _will_ allow us to add more trees, but adding more trees before doing that is putting the cart in front of the horse
# [03:38] <@dolske> I don't follow.
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# [03:39] <@ehsan> dolske: if we had like 10 times the current sherifing capacity and 10 times the current infra capacity, then we could add an inbound-2 and ask the sheriffs to deal with the merge pain by backing out the conflicters on both sides
# [03:39] <@ehsan> but that requires more sherif manpower, and more infra capacity
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# [03:39] <mbrubeck> I can't comment on solving the hardware capacity issues
# [03:39] <tbsaunde> ehsan: so, I'm not sure if I believe it or not, but I think there is an argument to be made that if adding more trees reduces floods of patches then it will help the load on our hardware overall
# [03:39] <@ehsan> and unless we have more of those, adding an inbound-2 is going to put even more pressure on our scarce resources
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# [03:39] <@dolske> How does having 2 trees with 50 checkins each differ from 1 tree with 100 checkins?
# [03:40] <mbrubeck> but project trees can help with sheriff capacity *if* they come with people committed to learning how to sheriff them
# [03:40] <@ehsan> dolske: on one tree we coalesce jobs pretty aggressively, on two we can do much less of that
# [03:40] <@ehsan> which means more jobs
# [03:40] <@ehsan> which means less free capacity
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# [03:41] <@ehsan> tbsaunde: see backscroll on why that's not true :)
# [03:41] <mbrubeck> Since rnewman's been talking about project trees recently I've thought of moving Metro development back to a project tree.
# [03:41] <@dolske> well, sure, 1 tree with 100 coalesced jobs is great for lowering load, and terrible for when something breaks.
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# [03:41] <mbrubeck> Since /browser/metro and /widget/windows/winrt are only built on Windows, we could have a tree with only Windows builders
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# [03:41] <mbrubeck> and only push changes to those Metro-specific directories there
# [03:42] <@ehsan> mbrubeck: project trees are sort of special in that if you break them or do something which prevents them from getting merged to central, you only affect a few people
# [03:42] <@ehsan> not potentially everybody
# [03:42] <mbrubeck> Right, which is another benefit
# [03:42] <rnewman> mbrubeck: well, one can be smarter about which changes trigger which builds
# [03:42] <mbrubeck> We could sheriff it ourselves, and sheriffing wouldn't need to be as onerous as inbound
# [03:42] <rnewman> not restrict pushes
# [03:42] <mbrubeck> rnewman: Yes, I've also filed some bugs on that and there's even some work in progress...
# [03:42] <rnewman> mbrubeck: you should weigh in on my mobile-central thread
# [03:42] <@ehsan> dolske: yeah, I hate coalescing like the plague, but the point is that if we stop coalescing today we should all wrap up and go home ;)
# [03:42] <rnewman> ehsan: you should too
# [03:43] <rnewman> I'm hoping this becomes a trend
# [03:43] <@ehsan> since our current infra is just not capable of handling all of the load
# [03:43] <mbrubeck> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=832008 and dependencies
# [03:43] <@ehsan> rnewman: which thread is that?
# [03:43] <rnewman> I think gps needs a little more time, then we can reduce the load :)
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# [03:43] <@ehsan> rnewman: I'm way behind on my newsgroup mail :(
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# [03:43] <@dolske> ehsan: how much load is generated by landing, backing out, and relanding (over and over) giant blocks of patches? :)
# [03:43] <rnewman> ehsan: I wish I could point you to a link -- mbrubeck, do you know where that stuff is archived?
# [03:43] * mbrubeck cut back on the number of newsgroups I read
# [03:43] <mbrubeck> rnewman: I don't think I've seen it either
# [03:44] * mbrubeck checks
# [03:44] <@ehsan> rnewman: nah just tell me who started it :)
# [03:44] <mbrubeck> mobile-platform@mozilla.org
# [03:44] <rnewman> ehsan: me, on mobile-platform@mozilla.org
# [03:44] <@ehsan> dolske: lots, but the normal patch doesn't get backed out and relanded
# [03:44] <rnewman> "Proposal: mobile-central"
# [03:44] <@ehsan> dolske: those are still the exception (on a good day!)
# [03:44] <@ehsan> mobile-platform?!
# [03:44] <@ehsan> man a lot has changed!
# [03:44] <rnewman> also mobile-frontend
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# [03:44] <rnewman> and mobile-firefox-dev
# [03:44] <@ehsan> heh
# [03:45] * philor is now known as philor|away
# [03:45] <tbsaunde> ehsan: I see it, lets just say I'm not convinced one way or the other yet
# [03:45] <@ehsan> what's mobile-firefox-dev?!
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# [03:45] <rnewman> mbrubeck: sounds like you need to push on that bug
# [03:45] <rnewman> ehsan: yeah, I know!
# [03:45] <mbrubeck> no public archive of https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/mobile-platform
# [03:45] <rnewman> none of these lists are archived or visible
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# [03:45] <rnewman> I don't think I'm even a member
# [03:45] <mbrubeck> or https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/mobile-frontend
# [03:45] <mbrubeck> (which is what I think rnewman means rather than mobile-firefox-dev)
# [03:46] <mbrubeck> though mobile-firefox-dev also exists now, newly-created...
# [03:46] <mbrubeck> https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/mobile-firefox-dev
# [03:46] <rnewman> no, mfinkle CCed that list
# [03:46] <mbrubeck> ah
# [03:46] <rnewman> said "[pushing out to the new mailing list too]"
# [03:46] <@dolske> I'll note that we effectively already have multiple-inbound, in a vague way, for everything in mozilla-central that actually lives in separate repos and just has snapshot updates.
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# [03:47] <rnewman> dolske: we have an *implicit* set of merge trees
# [03:47] <mbrubeck> And when /mobile was in that category it totally sucked for us. :/
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# [03:47] <rnewman> project branches and upstreams
# [03:47] <@ehsan> dolske: sure, but if you look at our checkin load, that's not really true :)
# [03:47] <@ehsan> we only have inbound and try ;)
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# [03:48] <rnewman> ehsan: forwarded
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# [03:48] <@dolske> services-central was perhaps the better example of this...
# [03:49] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/1df3bdadb7ce - Bobby Holley - Bug 843829 - Wrap unwaived content JS objects in opaque wrappers for XBL scopes. r=mrbkap
# [03:49] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/57652d8f0827 - Bobby Holley - Bug 843829 - Stop using IsTransparent for XBL field access, and explicitly waive instead. r=mrbkap
# [03:49] <rnewman> dolske: forwarded to you, too :)
# [03:49] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/97d16e7beb27 - Bobby Holley - Bug 843829 - Fix incorrect test. r=mrbkap
# [03:49] <rnewman> I'm basically proposing services-central for mobile-central
# [03:49] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/6c6ab0e54917 - Bobby Holley - Bug 845862 - Transitively apply waivers for accessor descriptors. r=mrbkap
# [03:49] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/2e889cd77a48 - Bobby Holley - Bug 843829 - Apply transitive waivers for nativeCall. r=mrbkap
# [03:49] <@ehsan> rnewman: thanks, reading it now, although it's not clear how I can contribute to the conversation (yay no-archive lists!)
# [03:49] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/64f001fe04fb - Bobby Holley - Bug 843829 - Explicitly add a waiver in FieldGetter and FieldSetter. r=mrbkap
# [03:49] <rnewman> aiming for my bright future where m-c only consists of green builds
# [03:50] <rnewman> that were green on another tree first
# [03:50] <rnewman> ehsan: that's the last message; just restructure and reply-all :D
# [03:50] <@dolske> or at least no orange that hasn't already long-since been filed. ;)
# [03:50] <rnewman> dolske: shhhh
# [03:50] <mbrubeck> I think we're already to the point where 99% of changesets land on some other tree before landing on m-c...
# [03:50] <@ehsan> rnewman: so, this will be a sherifed tree?
# [03:50] <rnewman> mbrubeck: yeah, but most of them are inbound, which has flaws
# [03:51] <mbrubeck> agreed
# [03:51] <rnewman> ehsan: "kinda"
# [03:51] <rnewman> sheriffed in proportion to its load
# [03:51] <rnewman> I can happily break s-c for a few days
# [03:51] <rnewman> fix-in-place rather than backout
# [03:51] <rnewman> inbound sucks because it gets closed all the time for bustage
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# [03:51] <rnewman> and that affects a lot of people
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# [03:51] <mbrubeck> inbound *was* a major improvement over everyone-lands-on-mc, and it did used to work better than it does with today's load...
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# [03:51] <rnewman> when you get down to monkeysphere sizes of people, you can coordinate how to work together
# [03:51] <rnewman> mbrubeck: no doubt
# [03:52] <rnewman> it made project branches feasible to merge, for one thing!
# [03:52] <mbrubeck> but yeah, it's not scaling
# [03:52] <rnewman> inbound broken? I can still merge my project branch.
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# [03:52] <tbsaunde> rnewman: forward to me too?
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# [03:52] <rnewman> done
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# [03:53] <rnewman> so my proposal is basically "make a tree of project branches of sufficient breadth and depth to avoid significant impact from closures and merges"
# [03:53] <rnewman> which, granted, costs builders
# [03:53] <rnewman> but then, we waste so many stupid cycles on our builds
# [03:53] <rnewman> gps has so many horror stories to tell
# [03:53] * Parts: ggp (ggp@moz-CF8BEBEF.dia.static.qwest.net) (Leaving...)
# [03:54] * nthomas is now known as nthomas|away
# [03:54] <rnewman> pretty sure that a few months of effort could drop our load by 50%, if we only prioritized the work
# [03:54] <@dolske> yes, "tree of project branches". that's a better term.
# [03:54] <rnewman> apparently reftests is 35% of our load; let's just run them on every other push, and immediately save 17% of our build times
# [03:54] <@dolske> (well, slight wording/analogy confusion aside ;)
# [03:54] <rnewman> :D
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# [03:56] <@dolske> but rnewman, just think how many regressions running reftests on mozilla-services has caught!
# [03:56] <rnewman> inorite! must be…
# [03:57] <@ehsan> rnewman: if the mobile team takes responsibility of dealing with sheriffing and merging and they only plan to land patches that touch mobile/ then this should be fine, given that those pushes already have fewer coalescing chances since they run fewer jobs
# [03:57] <rnewman> the idea would be same as s-c: only merge verified changesets
# [03:57] <rnewman> (we even went so far as to only merge QAed changesets)
# [03:57] <@ehsan> rnewman: or get someone to work on getting them to run in parallel, which is totally doable
# [03:58] <@dolske> actually, I wonder how much win smart-coalescing could be, if you had a magic ball that only combined wholly-independent changes... letmegetrightonthat. :/
# [03:58] <rnewman> hard; that's kinda why I don't think autoland will ever be feasible
# [03:58] <rnewman> you need attribution of failure
# [03:58] <@ehsan> dolske: yeah the dependency tracking is very hard to solve
# [03:58] <@dolske> yeah.
# [03:58] <@ehsan> rnewman: autoland _is_ feasible
# [03:59] <@ehsan> webkit uses it
# [03:59] <rnewman> how many pushes do we get an hour on inbound?
# [03:59] <@ehsan> the fact that we don't have enough capacity is the reason why we cannot have autoland
# [03:59] <rnewman> sure
# [03:59] <rnewman> but in order to be 100% confident, you need to serialize builds
# [03:59] <rnewman> you can't do independent builds of multiple changesets and assume they'll be green when they're all mixed
# [04:00] <mbrubeck> I'd be happy with, say, 95% confident
# [04:00] <rnewman> you can do that if your capacity is so huge that you can do independent builds, then tree-merge, smart-backout...
# [04:00] <catlee-away> we'll never have enough capacity
# [04:00] <mbrubeck> We can always back out a series of patches in the rare cases where they break only in combination... as long as they *are* rare enough.
# [04:00] <rnewman> but your autoland push is gonna take 8 hours to be condient
# [04:00] <rnewman> condient? confident.
# [04:00] <catlee-away> every time we add more, load increases to use it all up
# [04:00] <mbrubeck> condiment
# [04:00] <rnewman> so my proposal is to work in trees, and merge less frequently
# [04:01] <@dolske> you got your chocolate in my peanut-butter!
# [04:01] <rnewman> which, interestingly enough, is the way Windows works -- 50,000 contributors, and builds that take 24 hours to run.
# [04:01] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/7201a22e3c44 - John Daggett - Bug 856784 - null-check mUserFontData before use. r=jkew
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# [04:01] <rnewman> so they have trees of trees, and work moves up and down on schedule.
# [04:02] <@dolske> see, I was trying to avoid the "let's do what microsoft does" line... ;)
# [04:02] <rnewman> :D
# [04:02] <@ehsan> rnewman: we don't need to be 100% confident
# [04:02] <@ehsan> the bot doesn't have to be infallible, it just needs to be right enough times for it to be a valuable service
# [04:02] <@dolske> (or, more familiar to me, how Solaris was run)
# [04:02] <rnewman> ehsan: I know, I just think that getting any reasonable level of confidence involves turnaround times that are worse than try
# [04:02] <rnewman> dolske: ah, Sun is a better example, thank you :D
# [04:02] <@dolske> >_<
# [04:03] <@ehsan> rnewman: what? why would that be the case?
# [04:03] <@ehsan> rnewman: the bot just lands on try, sees green, lands on inbound, end of story
# [04:03] <RyanVM> ehsan: bustage
# [04:03] <@ehsan> RyanVM: looking
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# [04:04] <Waldo> conversion mistake, easy fix there
# [04:04] <rnewman> ehsan: OK, you and I have different ideas of scope :D
# [04:04] <@ehsan> RyanVM: backing out
# [04:04] <@dolske> ehsan: well, this conversation jsut got awkward. ;-)
# [04:04] <rnewman> for your scope, sure, identical to a try run and an inbound green... let's call it... 8 hours?
# [04:05] <@ehsan> rnewman: anyways, doesn't matter, since with our current state of infra capacity, these are just wild dreams for us :(
# [04:05] <rnewman> yeah, true :/
# [04:05] <rnewman> that's a nice thing about project branch... it's typically a reduction in net load
# [04:05] <@ehsan> rnewman: false
# [04:05] <rnewman> (assuming usually common platform changes)
# [04:06] <catlee-away> ehsan: we will never have enough capacity for the current development model
# [04:06] <rnewman> you mean doing just Android builds is worse than doing full inbound pushes?
# [04:06] <@ehsan> rnewman: more project branches => less coalescing => more load
# [04:06] <rnewman> and backouts?
# [04:06] <@ehsan> rnewman: oh I see
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# [04:06] <@ehsan> rnewman: you're suggesting we build only mobile no matter what landed on that branch?
# [04:06] <@ehsan> catlee-away: why is that?
# [04:06] <rnewman> or do it intelligently, but 90% of the landings on mobile-central would be java-only
# [04:07] <rnewman> maybe only do a proper build on the every-few-days merge from m-c to mobile
# [04:07] <rnewman> so you get a green changeset before a merge
# [04:07] <rnewman> basically accept trychooser syntax :D
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# [04:07] <@dolske> hmm, would a distcc kind of thing be crazy-thinking of expanding test capacity?
# [04:08] <rnewman> dolske: aren't we IO bound?
# [04:08] <@dolske> maybe even make it an addon?
# [04:08] <@dolske> (I like pie-in-the-sky)
# [04:08] <rnewman> heh
# [04:08] <catlee-away> ehsan: history has shown that load increases very quickly to consume any increase in available capacity
# [04:08] <rnewman> catlee-away: doesn't that mean we should have try lie about how long jobs take? :D
# [04:09] <@ehsan> rnewman: not building non-mobile for changes outside of mobile/ will be a pain when doing merges
# [04:09] <catlee-away> so if we add 2x capacity, we'll get 2.1x # of pushes
# [04:09] <@dolske> just randomly thinking: you sorta have to have trusted builders, but you don't need to trust test/perf runners as much.
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# [04:09] <@ehsan> rnewman: since that's when you'll discover all of the bustage on other platforms ;)
# [04:09] <rnewman> ehsan: see my remark about 'proper build'
# [04:09] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/06ae36377cfa - Ehsan Akhgari - Follow-up to bug 784739 - Compare a char against a numeric value, not nullptr
# [04:09] <rnewman> or 'intelligently'
# [04:09] <rnewman> point is, we can converge on doing fewer builds
# [04:10] <catlee-away> or not doing all the tests for all pushes
# [04:10] <rnewman> aye
# [04:10] <catlee-away> that would be a huge win
# [04:10] <@ehsan> catlee-away: surely people just don't get twice as productive over night ;)
# [04:10] <rnewman> I mean, almost any mobile push doesn't need to run all the js reftests, rite?
# [04:10] <rnewman> or any desktop mochitests
# [04:10] <rnewman> or ...
# [04:10] <@ehsan> rnewman: I see, trusting humands... hrm, how do I feel about that? ;)
# [04:10] <catlee-away> ehsan: they'll do more try pushes, or more inbound pushes, or add more tests
# [04:10] <tbsaunde> ehsan: surely it isn't hard to add a "do a full set of builds and tests button" to tbpl
# [04:10] <rnewman> DISABLE THE TESTS!
# [04:10] <@ehsan> rnewman: but yeah if you guys accept multiple days without a merge to central, then sure
# [04:11] <mbrubeck> rnewman: We already do that optimization for /mobile-only changes, right?
# [04:11] <rnewman> we did s-c merges weekly or less
# [04:11] <@ehsan> catlee-away: but try runs off of its separate pool, right?
# [04:11] <rnewman> mbrubeck: yeah, I've seen it happen; still runs more tests than it should, I think
# [04:11] <catlee-away> ehsan: of builders, yes
# [04:11] <@ehsan> tbsaunde: yeah that's easy, bisecting over 50 changesets is not
# [04:11] <catlee-away> ehsan: shares the test pool
# [04:11] <@ehsan> catlee-away: oh
# [04:12] <@ehsan> anyways
# [04:12] <rnewman> so I think the only answer is to have people do less work
# [04:12] <jcranmer> ehsan: that's what comm-central gets to do all the time
# [04:12] <rnewman> ;)
# [04:12] <@dolske> different coalescing for different tests might be interesting to think about... eg "every push on mozilla-foo runs M3, every 5 pushes runs reftests, every 10 runs ...."
# [04:12] <mbrubeck> This is what a mobile-only push looks like: https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Mozilla-Inbound&rev=5bf175669197
# [04:12] <tbsaunde> ehsan: presumably just mobile won't have that many, and if it somehow does the people figuring it out will probably know the code involved
# [04:12] <@ehsan> catlee-away: I don't see why increasing 2x wouldn't help in the short term, but if you're arguing that we will find a way to fill up the capacity over time, then yeah sure ;0
# [04:13] * RyanVM wants to see what doing hg purge on Try would win us (instead of full clobbers)
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# [04:13] <rnewman> mbrubeck: I wouldn't run jsreftest, for one thing
# [04:13] <mbrubeck> sure
# [04:13] <@dolske> clearly we need more public-transit infra and less highways.
# [04:13] <@ehsan> dolske: that scares me, as that's why the tree is closed half of the day these days
# [04:13] <rnewman> RyanVM: you mean bug 851398?
# [04:14] <rnewman> or bug 851270?
# [04:14] <@dolske> ehsan: this would only work on focused project branches.
# [04:14] <@ehsan> RyanVM: let's keep the tree closed for a short while, because, srsly :)
# [04:14] <catlee-away> ehsan: it would help in the very short term
# [04:14] <catlee-away> but not as long as you'd like
# [04:14] <@ehsan> dolske: true
# [04:14] <rnewman> also consider different rules at different levels of the tree
# [04:14] <rnewman> e.g., imagine a "mobile-fhr" project branch that only runs android + robotium
# [04:14] <RyanVM> rnewman: yeah
# [04:14] <@ehsan> catlee-away: do we have any historical examples of our infra capacity increasing by 2x "over night"?
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# [04:15] <rnewman> because to be honest, we're never going to break js-reftest or mochitests, realistically
# [04:15] <@ehsan> I'm curious to know how soon we've filled that up in the past
# [04:15] <rnewman> when we merge to mobile-central, we see if we break.
# [04:15] <catlee-away> ehsan: when the rev3 machines were introduces
# [04:15] <catlee-away> d
# [04:15] <@ehsan> rnewman: now that's a good idea :)
# [04:15] <RyanVM> ehsan: I supposed I should reopen
# [04:15] <catlee-away> also, linux aws slaves
# [04:15] <catlee-away> we added like 400% capacity
# [04:15] <RyanVM> what do I care, it's basically bedtime for me anyway
# [04:15] <@ehsan> RyanVM: no please give it some time
# [04:16] <catlee-away> and have hit the limits of that already
# [04:16] <@ehsan> oh
# [04:16] <@ehsan> well
# [04:16] <RyanVM> k, /me goes back to filing today's 8-10 new intermittent orange bugs
# [04:16] <RyanVM> (speaking of unsustainable things)
# [04:16] <@ehsan> but didn't we get like 10 day wait times on linux32 back then? ;)
# [04:16] <catlee-away> but, tests are the real problems, right?
# [04:16] <@ehsan> yes, they are
# [04:17] <@dolske> "r-, less tests!"
# [04:17] <rnewman> or... REMOVE FEATURES
# [04:18] <derf> rnewman: Blasphemy!
# [04:18] <rnewman> TABS ON TOP
# [04:18] <rnewman> god, that email made me chortle
# [04:18] <derf> dolske: And you joke, but we have tests that we can't turn on because people have complained that they take too long.
# [04:18] <@dolske> let's go full-enterprise, and charge infra costs on a per-department basis.
# [04:18] <rnewman> save money by doing less work!
# [04:18] <catlee-away> heh, we are going that way
# [04:18] <derf> dolske: And sure enough, the thing they're testing has been broken repeatedly.
# [04:19] <@dolske> derf: which tests, ooc?
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# [04:19] <rnewman> derf: we're not talking about jetpack, are we?
# [04:19] <rnewman> :D
# [04:19] <derf> dolske: WebRTC's signaling unittests.
# [04:20] <@ehsan> derf: also, valgrind tests
# [04:20] <@dolske> maybe that's a good example of something that should instead run periodically, or only frequently on a mozilla-webrtc project tree.
# [04:20] <ewong> dolske pmji, nightly only?
# [04:20] <derf> dolske: Well, if you want to catch stuff _before_ it's broken it needs to run on try.
# [04:20] <@dolske> (or maybe not, I don't know how much dependancy that stuff has on other things)
# [04:21] <jcranmer> the problem is we require that all of our tests run on every checkin to be visible
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# [04:21] <@dolske> jcranmer: sure, but that quickly devolves into "depnendancies are hard"
# [04:21] <@dolske> pretend I spelled that better.
# [04:22] <jcranmer> coming from comm-central, where half our test breakage comes from code we have to bisect
# [04:22] <catlee-away> why can't we have a quick suite of tests that catches 75% of problems, and run those per push. we can run the slower but more thorough tests periodically
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# [04:22] <jcranmer> I'm not particularly persuaded by people who complain that bisecting 50 changesets is hard
# [04:22] <@dolske> catlee-away: see my last line. :)
# [04:22] <jcranmer> dolske: this isn't a per-test dependency
# [04:22] <jcranmer> dolske: this is a testsuite thing
# [04:22] <catlee-away> dolske: doesn't have to be a dependency thing
# [04:23] <catlee-away> make a "fast" suite
# [04:23] <catlee-away> and a "full" suite
# [04:23] <jcranmer> it's what most developers probably do anyways
# [04:23] <derf> I mean, other parts of the problem are, for example the C++ unit tests run during the build phase, we don't really parallelize tests very well, etc.
# [04:23] <tbsaunde> catlee-away: so, the trick is what a fast suite should be depends a lot on what the patch is
# [04:23] <@dolske> catlee-away: but inevitably the "fast" suite won't cover most things, and so it becomes not so useful.
# [04:23] <jcranmer> I don't think I've ever run all of the mochitest suite locally
# [04:24] <jcranmer> before checking in
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# [04:24] <jcranmer> hell, I don't even run TB mozmill tests most of the time before checkin
# [04:24] <@dolske> catlee-away: we want "fast set of things likely to break for the code I'm touching" --> dependencies.
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# [04:25] <derf> Like, we have a bunch of TURN tests we'd like to write, but the pacing rules of TURN mean they'd take about 10 minutes to complete. That doesn't mean they'd use very much CPU during those 10 minutes, but if they're C++ unit tests then delaying all of the builders by 10 minutes while leaving them mostly idle seems like maybe a bad idea.
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# [04:25] <jgilbert> derf: sharded slaves to the rescue?
# [04:26] <derf> jgilbert: Maybe?
# [04:26] <Waldo> derf: pacing rules? could some underlying timing thing be mocked up to make them run faster?
# [04:26] <derf> Doesn't seem like it would do much for the build latency problem.
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# [04:26] <catlee-away> dolske: that'd be great, but hard as you say. I still think you can come up with a "fast" suite that covers a lot of common functionality would help
# [04:26] <@dolske> mach test turn-horde
# [04:26] <derf> Waldo: Possibly, but the pacing is actually a security issue.
# [04:26] <tbsaunde> RyanVM: https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Try&rev=5079d0fcd44d won't make you happy I tried disabling PGO on IonBuilder.cpp and look what it got me
# [04:26] <Waldo> derf: elucidate! now you have me curious :-)
# [04:26] <derf> I.e., it's what keeps people from turning Firefox into a DDoS.
# [04:27] <RyanVM> tbsaunde: yeah, we've been hitting it there too
# [04:27] <derf> Waldo: This is for WebRTC, which is P2P. Part of the security model requires checking that the peer you're trying to contact actually wants to receive media from you.
# [04:27] <catlee-away> dolske: like make sure the browser can start, do simple layout, network, etc. before even trying to run the rest of mochitests or talos
# [04:27] <RyanVM> IonBuilder's the most common, but not the only one
# [04:27] <derf> If the checks weren't paced, you could DDoS by making a webpage that did nothing more than run the checks.
# [04:27] <jgilbert> catlee-away++
# [04:27] <Waldo> derf: ah
# [04:27] <catlee-away> dolske: right now we run ALL THE TESTS for anything that successfully compiled
# [04:28] <tbsaunde> RyanVM: huh, the couple logs I looked at didn't have it
# [04:28] <jgilbert> like, load up *a* webgl test
# [04:28] <Waldo> derf: still seems like you could have the underlying timing mechanism be mockable, then switch in something that ran time ahead to make the delays palatable
# [04:28] <philor> yeah, one of these days we may even have to file that Shape.o one
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# [04:28] <Waldo> derf: so long as run-time-ahead were SpecialPowers and/or not available outside test runs
# [04:29] <derf> Yes, there's probably a bunch of work we could do.
# [04:29] <derf> But it almost seems like the effort would be better spent fixing the testing framework.
# [04:30] <RyanVM> philor: nah, I'm all in favor of leaving it in the crap heap that is IonBuilder
# [04:30] <tbsaunde> Waldo: you also have to ask how much of what your testing is what you ship and how much is your mock up
# [04:30] * Waldo doesn't know where time/effort would be best spent
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# [04:30] <tbsaunde> RyanVM: but if it gets passed js/src/ it doesn't fall over dead in other places? that's ... interesting
# [04:30] <Waldo> tbsaunde: advancing the clock is a pretty common thing to mock up, I believe
# [04:30] <derf> All I know is no one seems to want to do either.
# [04:30] <Waldo> heh :-\
# [04:30] <@dolske> catlee-away: ah, if you're talking about a basic aliveness test, I suppose. But I'd expect most load is wasted on things that pass most tests but fail in just one particualr test.
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# [04:31] <RyanVM> philor: we should really get around to filing that osx m2 shutdown hang too
# [04:31] <RyanVM> got about 4-5 other instances over the last couple days
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# [04:33] <philor> RyanVM: well, the "mochitest, mochitest-chrome, mochitest-browser-chrome" bug was actually about a Mac M2 shutdown when it started life, before it got morphed into the Linux oth shutdown
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# [04:34] <RyanVM> philor: heh
# [04:34] <RyanVM> we're good at that
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# [04:37] * philor picks the Win8 contacts_basics as the least fun to file, and does
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# [04:37] <philor> mmm, frog-swallowing
# [04:39] <jcranmer> catlee-away, dolske: here's an interesting idea
# [04:39] <jcranmer> on m-i, run only one testsuite, but rotate it on each checkin
# [04:39] <jcranmer> and make sure every platform is running a different testsuite on the same checkin
# [04:39] <mjrosenb> Usage: populate_virtualenv.py /path/to/topsrcdir /path/to/topobjdir /path/to/virtualenv
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# [04:39] <mjrosenb> anyone know how to not get that?
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# [04:42] <RyanVM> philor: there's more instances of that further down too
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# [04:43] <philor> RyanVM: yeah, probably for days, it takes me a while to build up momentum :)
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# [04:43] <RyanVM> philor: I truly meant to catch up on filing today
# [04:43] <RyanVM> and then never did
# [04:43] <philor> actually, probably for as long as we've run on win8
# [04:43] <mfinkle> ehsan, added you to the public mobile-firefox-dev list
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# [04:44] <mfinkle> mobile-frontend is really supposed to be more internal crap
# [04:44] <mfinkle> PTO emails and stuff
# [04:44] <philor> no matter how little it does, we need a button or a bookmarklet to halfway-file
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# [04:46] <@ehsan> mfinkle: thanks
# [04:47] <RyanVM> philor: one of the plans for tbpl2 is a needs-filing state where a failure can be acknowledged as intermittent and starred, but not actually filed yet
# [04:48] <RyanVM> that is,when it's not busy curing cancer and teaching illiterate children how to read
# [04:49] <RyanVM> mmm, <3 filing intermittent failures in Core...General
# [04:49] * philor goes out to the corral to look for his pony
# [04:49] <RyanVM> a sure-fire way to get it ignored
# [04:49] <philor> depends on the assignee
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# [04:50] <philor> sometimes, an assignee plus "fix this now or I'm disabling your damn test_mixed_content_blocker_frameNavigation.html" can actually work
# [04:50] <@bz> hey, orangefactors is down to like 5, no?
# [04:50] <@bz> We must have disabled some tests....
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# [04:51] <philor> you are correct, sir
# [04:51] <philor> that's how we did it
# [04:51] <philor> unless this week's drop was when we got the webrtc drop, but I think that was last weeks
# [04:52] <philor> hiding entire platforms helps, too
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# [04:54] <philor> back up over 6 already, though
# [04:55] <philor> "[info at comment 1529, comment 2322, 4812]"
# [04:55] <mjrosenb> also, is there anything special that I need to do when committing a fix for a SS bug?
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# [04:56] <philor> oh, neat, the test_mixed_content_blocker_frameNavigation.html timeout is bustage?
# [04:57] <mjrosenb> just a simple commit message?
# [04:57] <tbsaunde> mjrosenb: if you have s-a+ not afaik
# [04:57] <jcranmer> bz: ping
# [04:58] <tbsaunde> just don't put "POC exploit fixed by this patch at http://blah" in the commit message :p
# [04:58] <mjrosenb> tbsaunde: I have an 'r+'
# [04:59] <@dveditz> mjrosenb: you may need security approval (but please don't put s-a+ in commit messages)
# [04:59] <RyanVM> sweet, bholley and ehsan both have bustage on inbound
# [04:59] <@dveditz> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security/Bug_Approval_Process
# [04:59] <Unfocused> is something wrong? i just updated one of my trees, and didn't need to clobber
# [04:59] <RyanVM> ehsan: good call on leaving it closed
# [04:59] <@ehsan> hrm
# [04:59] <mjrosenb> dveditz: this is just going into m-c.
# [04:59] <mjrosenb> well, m-i
# [04:59] <@dveditz> mjrosenb: what do you mean by "just"?
# [05:00] <@dveditz> if it's an old bug just going into m-c could trigger a chemspill on a branch if it's an obvious patch
# [05:00] <RyanVM> ehsan: back out bholley while you're at it?
# [05:00] <tbsaunde> dveditz: I wouldn't put it in the commit message, but does it actually leak much info?
# [05:00] <@ehsan> sure
# [05:01] <philor> I really wish people would stop pushing things they last pushed to try before the reset, it takes all the fun out of backouts to not be able to see the try push that showed the same bustage
# [05:01] <@dveditz> tbsaunde: it could draw attention to the commit
# [05:01] <tbsaunde> dveditz: fair
# [05:02] <tbsaunde> though I sort of wonder if an attacker wouldn't just write a script to check for patches for hidden bugs
# [05:02] <@dveditz> tbsaunde: it's about the same as a comment saying "fix security bug xyz". don't do that, either :-)
# [05:02] <@dveditz> tbsaunde: yeah, they can (and have)
# [05:02] <mjrosenb> dveditz: I can't imagine that this is an exploitable bug.
# [05:02] <philor> "Bug nnnnnn, Tests" should prevent humans from looking
# [05:02] <@dveditz> mjrosenb: then why is it s-s ? :-)
# [05:02] <@dveditz> I don't know what bug you're talking about
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# [05:03] <mjrosenb> dveditz: 814552 and it is s-s because I haven't actually looked into it enough to determine that it isn't
# [05:03] <@dveditz> well, yeah, we have a lot of those
# [05:04] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/e60919ded783 - Ehsan Akhgari - Backed out 6 changesets (bug 843829, bug 845862) because of broken mochitest-5
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# [05:04] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/84588077a188 - Ehsan Akhgari - Backed out 2 changesets (bug 784739) because of Windows build failures
# [05:04] <@dveditz> so just by the bug number I know it goes back a few cycles
# [05:05] <mjrosenb> but knowing how that code works, and the test case, it should be nigh impossible to actually exploit.
# [05:08] <@dveditz> mjrosenb: ok... you should say that in the bug, add the sec-moderate keyword, and then check in
# [05:09] <@dveditz> er, take off the sec-critical then, if you think it's not
# [05:09] <@dveditz> in addition to adding sec-moderate
# [05:09] <mjrosenb> dveditz: what should I say when I check it in?
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# [05:11] <@dveditz> mjrosenb: "bug 814552 align localSlotCount for ARM" ?
# [05:12] <@dveditz> or just "ARM crash fix"
# [05:12] <@dveditz> well, bug number of course
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# [05:16] <njn> if I open a file with nsIFile::create(), how do I subsequently close it?
# [05:17] <njn> does it happen automatically when the nsIFile is destroyed? the docs don't say, AFAICT
# [05:17] <njn> and there's no nsIFile::close()
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# [05:20] <@dolske> njn: .remove()
# [05:21] <njn> dolske: um, no
# [05:21] <@dolske> what are you trying to ask?
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# [05:22] <njn> I guess you need to open it with open{ANSI,NSPR}FileDesc(), and then use fclose or PR_close to close it
# [05:22] <njn> i.e. nsIFile::create() doesn't open the file per se
# [05:22] <rnewman> njn: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/PR_Close ?
# [05:22] <rnewman> ah, you already found it
# [05:22] <@dolske> file handles and nsIFiles are totally different concepts.
# [05:23] <@dolske> an nsIFile is essentially just a string (path/file)
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# [05:41] <Waldo> ehsan: replied to your comment
# [05:41] <@ehsan> t
# [05:41] <@ehsan> y
# [05:41] <@ehsan> will probably read it tomorrow though
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# [05:43] <Waldo> ehsan: short answer is that calling memset/memcpy directly means you get all the fully-generic behavior that memset/memcpy require by spec, because they take not-guaranteed-aligned pointers and write out/compare not-guaranteed-aligned amounts of data
# [05:44] <@ehsan> ok, and why is that a problem?
# [05:44] <Waldo> ehsan: performance testing JS engine people did says those modifications (which don't change semantics!) resulted in faster code
# [05:44] <@ehsan> huh
# [05:44] <@ehsan> it would be nice if somebody can remeasure
# [05:45] <Waldo> certainly
# [05:45] <@ehsan> but I really need to go to sleep now
# [05:45] <@ehsan> cya later
# [05:45] <Waldo> some of the numbers were done with gcc on OS X, so there is some datedness here, to be sure
# [05:45] <Waldo> later
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# [06:13] <@gavin> if ehsan's push goes green are we going to reopen inbound?
# [06:14] <@bz> "This push goes to green"
# [06:15] <jlebar> jcranmer: You're CMU, right?
# [06:15] <jcranmer> jlebar: nope
# [06:16] <jlebar> jcranmer: Oh, okay. I was going to ask about the xkcd hashing contest now that it's over, but will find someone who actually went there. On the Stanford list someone hypothesized that CMU was using FPGAs or GPUs, but I don't buy it myself.
# [06:17] <jcranmer> I doubt it
# [06:17] <jcranmer> UIUC was only using craptons of amazon computers
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# [06:20] <philor> gavin: yes, but the green in question is "well, at least a fair number of Windows tests, since we haven't run any for 10 pushes or so"
# [06:20] <jcranmer> jlebar: hearing really-Nth-hand, it sounds like the requistioned a school cluster
# [06:21] <jlebar> jcranmer: It strikes me now that an interesting way to approach this would have been to emscripten the Skein routine, host it on a website, and spam all the dorm lists.
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# [06:21] <jlebar> That would have been cool.
# [06:22] * jcranmer shrugs
# [06:22] <jcranmer> it strikes me mostly as a "who has access to the most computing power" kind of competition
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# [06:23] <jlebar> I'll attest that there was at least a little something to making a program that was fast. I got a 25% speedup by tweaking various compiler options and skein #defines, past -O3.
# [06:23] <jcranmer> I didn't participate
# [06:23] <jlebar> jcranmer: But you're right.
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# [06:25] <jcranmer> more fun would have been discovering a fundamental crypto weakness in it
# [06:26] <jcranmer> doing the math, this does at least show that ~2^50 hash times is within feasibility for a distributed attack
# [06:27] <jcranmer> maybe 2^60 or 2^70
# [06:27] <jlebar> s^64 is enough for a birthday attack on a secure hash with a 128-bit digest.
# [06:27] <jlebar> 2^80 is not too far away, and that's a birthday attack on SHA-1.
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# [06:28] <jlebar> And we're not counting GPUs here
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# [06:49] <mjrosenb> who determines when the tree is re-opened?
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# [06:55] <philor> I compare the amount of time remaining before I go to sleep to the number of people clearly planning to dump something on it the second it reopens
# [06:56] <philor> screw it, if it gets bad quick I'll just go to bed early
# [06:56] <mjrosenb> philor: that's the spirit!
# [06:56] <mjrosenb> I think.
# [06:58] <ewong> there's clearly four hours or so before the next sheriff logs on (Ms2ger or edmorley), so what clearly can go wrong with opening the tree and leave it to a wannabe sheriff to look after it? ;P
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# [06:59] <tbsaunde> philor: and I just thought "I'll be up a while so I'll land in a bit" and then went "wait busted crap will land immediately and it'll be closed again"
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# [07:00] <tbsaunde> don't you love this position?
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# [07:01] <philor> just wait until you're the third to land - one of the first two will be the bustage, and your bustage if any will remain hidden by theirs at least until Ed gets in to work, hours from now
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# [07:05] <philor> but along with, apparently, pleasuring yourself, you can take the high ground by moving to Paris - virtually no infra load and a paid sheriff with little sheriffing to do, during most of your day
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# [07:09] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/8dca50755ee3 - Trevor Saunders - bug 856696 - make nsTArray::SwapElements() return void r=jlebar
# [07:09] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/01338114b268 - Trevor Saunders - bug 856700 - don't check the result of infalible nsTArray::SwapElements() in dom/ r=khuey
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# [07:11] <firebot> Check-in:
# [07:11] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/e418e5123168 - Andrew Sutherland - Bug 857393 - XHR in Web Workers fails to throw XMLHttpRequest::Send failures to callers (ex: NS_ERROR_FILE_NOT_FOUND), exception may be reported erroneously
# [07:11] <firebot> elsewhere. r=bent
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# [07:15] <mjrosenb> we should get density plots of pushes to m-i and m-c
# [07:15] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/538ec52a9156 - Marty Rosenberg - Bug 814552 align localSlotCount for ARM (r=dvander)
# [07:16] <mjrosenb> and see the waves that occur after the tree is re-opened.
# [07:16] <@bz> mjrosenb: Like http://oduinn.com/images/2013/blog_2013_02_pushes.png ?
# [07:16] <@bz> Or too coarse?
# [07:16] <@bz> Or http://oduinn.com/images/2013/blog_2013_02_pushes.png but that's averaged
# [07:16] <mjrosenb> bz: too coarse.
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# [07:25] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/4a5b662231b8 - Gavin Sharp - Bug 854740: PopupNotifications doesn't handle showing a dismissed notification after showing a normal one, r=MattN
# [07:25] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/248bfb2dcc99 - Gavin Sharp - Bug 851586, r=bz
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# [07:54] <arky> Unfocused, ping
# [07:54] <Unfocused> arky: pong
# [07:55] <arky> Unfocused, touching based on bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=377881
# [07:55] <arky> Unfocused, Will you mentor me on the dependent bug #335781
# [07:57] <Unfocused> oh :) sure, if you're up for it. fair warning: although a lot is already done in the patch there, it's still a substantial and not-simple project
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# [07:58] <arky> Unfocused, I have been warned: Given that I have no experience with this. However I would to give this a shot.
# [07:58] <Unfocused> ok :)
# [07:58] <arky> Unfocused, I have been fighting for this locale switching for over a year now
# [07:59] <Unfocused> yea, the current state of affairs is not-awesome
# [08:00] <Unfocused> would be great to finally get it sorted
# [08:00] <arky> Unfocused, yeah. Looks like I need to get my hands dirty to make this happen
# [08:00] <arky> Unfocused, Reading your comment https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=335781#c96
# [08:01] <arky> Unfocused, My first step to see if that patch still applies to latest mozilla-central builds?
# [08:02] <Unfocused> yep
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# [08:02] <Unfocused> if there is any bitrot, i wouldn't expect it to be a huge job to fix up
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# [08:04] <arky> Unfocused, Ok I am going to attempt just that today
# [08:06] <Unfocused> awesome :)
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# [08:09] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/271863ee5919 - Aaron Klotz - Bug 810454: Replaces A/B test for cookie db readahead with always-enabled readahead. r=ehsan
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# [08:11] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/cec16f7093d6 - John Daggett - Bug 856402 - null-check the result of GetParentStyleSheet. r=dbaron
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# [08:24] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/12ec336988e5 - Nicolas B. Pierron - Bug 855037 - JäegerMonkey: Check if there is an helper thread for Ion compilation. r=dvander
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# [08:29] <@dbaron> JäegerMonkey seems redundant -- shouldn't it either be JägerMonkey, or if ä is too inconvenient, JaegerMonkey?
# [08:30] <nbp> dbaron: That's too complex too think about it, we should just remove it …
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# [08:30] <nbp> s/too think/to think/
# [08:31] <nbp> dbaron: and you are probably right.
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# [08:32] <Unfocused> dbaron: not if the band/track it was named after originally spelled it that way
# [08:33] <@dbaron> Unfocused, I rather annoyed a friend of mine in college by regularly pronouncing "Moxy Früvous" (which he was a fan of) as written (as I interpreted it)
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# [08:35] <philor> Jäëgërmönkëÿ
# [08:37] <Callek> not enough accent!
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# [08:39] <Unfocused> dbaron: i have no idea how that's meant to be pronounced :)
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# [08:42] <WeirdAl> !seen mano
# [08:42] <firebot> mano was last seen 22 hours, 25 minutes and 32 seconds ago, saying 'simonab: pong' in #fx-team.
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# [08:43] <nbp> JægêrMomkèy ?
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# [08:47] <nbp> I guess we should remove this JIT, who had the idea of putting an accent in the name in the first place, this is not even by default on QWERTY :D
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# [08:48] <glazou> bonjour
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# [08:55] <WeirdAl> hi glazou :)
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# [08:57] <TheOne> must have been a German :)
# [08:57] <TheOne> and it's not an accent, it's an umlaut
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# [08:58] * WeirdAl grins, having fixed his TreeViews module
# [08:58] <jgilbert> yeah, but if you convert the umlaut, you get jaeegermonkey
# [08:58] <WeirdAl> getting XUL trees right really is a bigger pain than it should be
# [08:59] <TheOne> WeirdAl: right
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# [08:59] <TheOne> jgilbert: no, it's Jaegermonkey
# [08:59] <WeirdAl> TheOne: bug 835916 if you're interested in something to bang on
# [09:00] <jgilbert> TheOne: oh, well the commit was wonky, I guess
# [09:00] <WeirdAl> I'm really curious to see what others think of that 34KB module
# [09:00] <jgilbert> "JäegerMonkey"
# [09:00] <TheOne> WeirdAl: thanks for letting me know about this bug
# [09:01] <TheOne> jgilbert: that's weird...which language should that be?
# [09:01] <WeirdAl> you're welcome - like I said, I need other people's eyeballs to tell me if it's understandable & useful
# [09:01] <TheOne> ah, just one commit?
# [09:02] <jgilbert> TheOne: yeah, from a bit ago
# [09:02] <glazou> TheOne: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=j%C3%A4eger-cino
# [09:02] <TheOne> glazou: almost all words containing an ä are wrong, imho
# [09:03] <TheOne> it's not "Jäegermeister", it's Jägermeister
# [09:04] <jgilbert> or Jaegermeister, if umlauts are too cool for you :P
# [09:04] <TheOne> http://www.jagermeister.com/ <-- oh the irony
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# [09:05] * TheOne is German, so umlauts are just one keystroke away :)
# [09:06] <smontagu> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2003Apr/0012.html
# [09:07] <jgilbert> smontagu: beautiful
# [09:07] <glazou> smontagu: he should have suggested turning all c into ç and all i into dotless turkish i
# [09:07] <smontagu> heh
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# [09:08] <smontagu> actually that isn't the proposal I was looking for
# [09:08] <glazou> smontagu: any news on the vertical writing side ?
# [09:08] <jgilbert> glazou: could always do the classic cyrillic swap
# [09:08] <smontagu> I remember something like text-transform: heavy-metal
# [09:09] <smontagu> which added umlauts to random vowels
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# [09:09] <smontagu> proposed on the same date
# [09:09] <smontagu> (maybe in a different year)
# [09:10] <smontagu> glazou: are you going to ask that every time I open my mouth in #developers?
# [09:10] <glazou> yep :-)
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# [09:38] <Ms2ger> Bonjour
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# [10:19] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/63cfb554e9e9 - Ben Turner - Bug 857283 - 'Smarter caching of index update queries'. r=khuey.
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# [10:21] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/4d1787e7e3cf - Gijs Kruitbosch - Bug 854583 - Use 'pointer' instead of 'cursor' for mouse lock, r=dolske
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# [10:25] <Ms2ger> edmorley, good morning
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# [10:25] <edmorley> Ms2ger: good morning :-)
# [10:26] <edmorley> and how are you?
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# [10:27] <Ms2ger> Good, good
# [10:27] <Ms2ger> Except for android/b2g :)
# [10:27] <edmorley> heh :-)
# [10:27] <Ms2ger> Apparently they don't do webgl
# [10:27] <glazou> wow, inline table editing in the editor is horked, the remove row button does not seem to work any more
# [10:28] <Ms2ger> So how do I disable my tests? :)
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# [10:29] <edmorley> Ms2ger: android.json and b2g.json in testing/mochitest/
# [10:29] <Ms2ger> Ah well, at least it's no .ini
# [10:30] <edmorley> what tests?
# [10:30] <edmorley> the ones run under test_webgl_conformance_test_suite.html have their own manifests iirc
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# [10:31] <Ms2ger> edmorley, new tests :)
# [10:32] <edmorley> :-)
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# [10:35] <Ms2ger> Hrm
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# [10:40] <Ms2ger> edmorley, want to know something fun about http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/testing/mochitest/android.json?mark=145-147#145 ?
# [10:41] <edmorley> let me guess, they don't exist?
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# [10:41] <Ms2ger> Because they were moved...
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# [10:41] <Ms2ger> And they pass
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# [10:41] <edmorley> hehe
# [10:42] <edmorley> might as well clean those lines up, if you want? :-)
# [10:42] <Ms2ger> Yeah, I will
# [10:42] <edmorley> ta
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# [10:45] <Callek> Ms2ger: soo, we should (imho) add a fail if excluded tests don't actually exist
# [10:45] <Callek> Ms2ger: such that if we move/delete a test we also remove/delete from the excludes
# [10:45] <Ms2ger> I don't disagree :)
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# [10:47] <Yoric> ttaubert: Is there any hope to have the Session Restore review for tomorrow?
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# [10:54] <Gijs> So I'm trying to look at some styling issues in using html progress bars instead of XUL ones for <video> (bug 726240). How do I get a hold of the nodes in the controls with DOMI? I thought it'd be there if I showed anonymous content, but it doesn't look like that works (on current nightly). Am I missing something silly?
# [10:54] <Gijs> (DOMI - or anything, really)
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# [10:58] <ttaubert> Yoric: maybe today. wanted to do it yesterday, actually
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# [10:59] <Yoric> Today is fine with me, too.
# [10:59] <Yoric> :)
# [10:59] <ttaubert> thought so :)
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# [11:02] <glazou> tbsaunde: yt?
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# [11:06] <glazou> brb
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# [11:07] <db48x`> Gijs: View → Show Anonymous Content?
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# [11:08] <Gijs> db48x`: Yeah, that's checked.
# [11:09] * Gijs has also unchecked and then checked it again, no change...
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# [11:10] <db48x`> heh
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# [11:25] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-beta/rev/5a4212aed2b6 - seabld - Added tag SEAMONKEY_2_18b1_BUILD1 for changeset FIREFOX_21_0b1_BUILD1. CLOSED TREE a=release
# [11:25] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-beta/rev/083cf17dacba - seabld - Added tag SEAMONKEY_2_18b1_RELEASE for changeset FIREFOX_21_0b1_BUILD1. CLOSED TREE a=release
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# [11:28] * Callek feels dirty when he thinks he successfully explained why <video> is not showing its XBL to DOMi from an in-content-webpage to a Firefox Employee who wanted view said XBL content to figure out why his CSS wasn't applying
# [11:29] <Callek> the fact that I could even come close is more troubling than anything since I haven't touched gecko formally in a few years.
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# [11:30] <Ms2ger> Huh, there's a client.py in m-c?
# [11:31] <ewong> yup
# [11:31] <Gijs> Callek: hey, in my defense, I started yesterday :P
# [11:31] <Callek> Ms2ger: yea, its been there since the start
# [11:31] <Callek> Gijs: It sounded more ominous when I didn't name which Firefox Employee :-P
# [11:31] <Callek> (and yea I knew you started yesterday, so I'm not too worried)
# [11:31] <NeilAway> Gijs: DOMI can only show you XBL anonymous content, so you can't look inside HTML elements like that
# [11:32] <Gijs> Right, so is there a way I can? :)
# [11:32] * Gijs is still stuck in XUL+XBL+HTML+CSS namespace hell.
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# [11:32] <Gijs> worst is, I didn't write this patch, but it's labeled "untested", and it doesn't work, but the CSS looks OK to me. :)
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# [11:35] <Callek> Gijs: perhaps take the JS webconsole and play with a custom page with a <video> + jquery and do manual DOM CSS applying/etc
# [11:36] <Callek> (or maybe you don't have the context perms to adjust the controls that way)
# [11:36] <Gijs> Content wouldn't be allowed to style the video controls.
# [11:36] * Callek isn't sure
# [11:36] <Gijs> Right.
# [11:36] <Gijs> I've played around with an <html:progress> on its own in the way you suggested
# [11:36] <Gijs> and there the CSS seems to work fine
# [11:37] <Gijs> so my best guess at the minute is that the namespace + class + pseudoclass notation is incorrect, but I'm not sure if that's really it or not.
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# [11:40] <NeilAway> Gijs: you may be able to get something working by creating a xul videocontrols element in chrome
# [11:40] <Gijs> Good point.
# [11:40] <Callek> or making a chrome priv'd html doc with html video
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# [11:41] <NeilAway> Gijs: did you @namespace html ?
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# [11:42] <Gijs> Yes.
# [11:42] <Gijs> (was already in the file)
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# [11:57] <smontagu> "Automatically clobbering..." -- WTF?
# [11:57] <Ms2ger> Yep
# [11:57] <Ms2ger> mk_add_options NO_AUTOCLOBBER=1
# [11:57] <smontagu> sorry about the important files that you saved in your objdir
# [11:58] <smontagu> not that I can think of a rational scenario where that would happen :)
# [11:58] <Ms2ger> "People don't do that"
# [11:59] <NeilAway> strange path name
# [12:00] <NeilAway> mozbuild/mozbuild/
# [12:00] <Callek> smontagu: it was announced in newsgroups/lists for a while now
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# [12:01] <Callek> smontagu: I was personally against the "do auto clobber for all people" but gps-as-owner-of-build-system outweighed me, and I wasn't strongly opposed
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# [12:02] * smontagu can't keep up with moz newsgroups any more
# [12:03] <Ms2ger> smontagu, you simply need to mute everything after reading the first post of the thread :)
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# [12:04] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/ea4b1c3829d3 - Jonathan Watt - Bug 857034 - Add support for native theming of <input type=range> on Windows. r=roc
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# [12:10] <edmorley> Ms2ger: that and filter anything with "meeting" in the subject
# [12:10] <edmorley> that cuts out a lot of noise
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# [12:10] <Ms2ger> True
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# [12:11] <Ms2ger> "Mozilla's build automation performed 294,709 jobs from 2013-03-17 to 2013-03-23 and I'm analyzing every one."
# [12:11] <Ms2ger> So that's why ftp is slow
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# [12:15] <Gijs> NeilAway, Callek: so I've made a XUL <dialog>, stuck it under chrome://browser/content/, opened it with window.openDialog, video plays (didn't when it was unprivileged), but DOMI still only shows the underlying <source> child, not any of the controls that have been generated...
# [12:15] <Ms2ger> ted++
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# [12:27] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/f03cd121303c - Alexandre Poirot - Bug 854937: Fix reason code for bootstrap addon dropped in profile extensions folder. r=Mossop,Unfocused
# [12:27] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/0b1907140f8c - Gavin Sharp - Bug 843559 - Followup patch to rename string. r=anton
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# [12:28] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/686d76b44d9f - Tim Taubert - merge m-c to fx-team
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# [12:31] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/ee16c6da2c75 - Norbert Lindenberg - Bug 837941 - Workaround: Use alternate prototype initialization for self-hosted List class.
# [12:31] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/52e4c977856c - Till Schneidereit - Bug 851763 - part 1: add support for wrapping self-hosted functions instead of cloning them. r=jwalden
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# [12:35] <till> urgh, why didn't hg qref -e apply my new description for ee16c6da2c75?
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# [12:38] <Gijs> So, mach build toolkit doesn't actually repackage the bindings which are under toolkit, from the looks of it. What should I use instead? :-(
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# [12:40] <Callek> Gijs: mach package iirc
# [12:40] <Callek> not sure about mach, but I use make -C browser/installer package
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# [12:45] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/1d16a8d87007 - Lucas Rocha - Bug 855650 - Remove dangling reference to toolbar_spacer in gecko_app.xml (r=sriram)
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# [12:49] <NeilAway> Gijs: when I said xul videocontrols element in chrome, I meant an actual <videocontrols> element in a chrome xul document
# [12:49] <Gijs> NeilAway: right, I tried that after, then realized my changes hadn't been packaged correctly by running mach build toolkit. :(
# [12:50] <Gijs> Sorry.
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# [12:52] <Optimize1> jwatt: \o/ for 857034
# [12:52] <Optimize1> can I haz screenshot ?
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# [13:21] <jesup> edmorley: ping
# [13:22] <edmorley> jesup: hi
# [13:22] <jesup> edmorley: the nsThread leak should be a new bug; that's browsertest-chrome, which has no webrtc tests in it. Perhaps someone else tripped on the the same XPCOM bug, or maybe it's a totally unrelated was to leak an nsThread
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# [13:23] <edmorley> jesup: ok
# [13:23] <edmorley> thank you
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# [13:24] <jesup> If someone checked in new use of DISPATCH_SYNC recently that might be the cause. Or if they didn't clean up their event queue before shutting down
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# [13:39] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-beta/rev/7dca48b8f4a4 - Sean Stangl - Bug 854124 - Update RegExpStatics on empty match in str_replace_regexp_remove(). r=dvander, a=bajaj
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# [13:42] * @ted wonders why ms2ger was ++ing him
# [13:43] <@ted> exciting, typeahead find got me stuck in a multi-second reflow
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# [13:43] <AutomatedTester> ted: ask him now
# [13:43] <@ted> Ms2ger: what was the ++ for
# [13:43] <Ms2ger> Mm
# [13:44] <Ms2ger> Twitter?
# [13:45] <Ms2ger> Yep, twitter
# [13:45] <@ted> heh
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# [13:50] <@ted> do we have an equivalent to firefox for android's "share via sync" feature on desktop firefox?
# [13:50] <@ted> that's really handy
# [13:50] <AryehGregor> nsTArray::AppendElement is infallible, right?
# [13:51] * AryehGregor is paranoid and keeps asking this sort of question
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# [13:54] <Ms2ger> AryehGregor, it is
# [13:54] <@ted> AryehGregor: isn't all of nsTArray infallible now unless you're using fallibleTArray?
# [13:54] <AryehGregor> ted, yes, that's what I thought.
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# [13:56] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/48be75a0907b - Devdatta Akhawe - Bug 850435 - Android Patch: separately measure UI telemetry for iframes and top level. r=felipe
# [13:56] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/0ed69c61f7a3 - Cykesiopka - Bug 831741 - Remove remaining __cplusplus bits from js/src/js[...].h files. r=luke
# [13:56] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/a2c4394226cd - Cykesiopka - Bug 394144 - Add keyboard accelerator for "Do not ask next time" in quit dialog. r=paulo
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# [13:59] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/341563ce0193 - Ed Morley - Merge mozilla-central to mozilla-inbound
# [13:59] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/3a5929ebc886 - Ed Morley - Merge latest green inbound changeset to mozilla-central
# [13:59] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/f03cd121303c - Alexandre Poirot - Bug 854937: Fix reason code for bootstrap addon dropped in profile extensions folder. r=Mossop,Unfocused
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# [14:00] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/686d76b44d9f - Tim Taubert - merge m-c to fx-team
# [14:00] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/0b1907140f8c - Gavin Sharp - Bug 843559 - Followup patch to rename string. r=anton
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# [14:02] <NeilAway> whoa, did 394144 get lost and unloved?
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# [14:03] <sheppy> I always get a kick out of it when I document an old bug after it gets fixed. About a year ago I did one that was in the 30000 range.
# [14:05] <Ms2ger> sheppy, does 675884 count as old?
# [14:05] <sheppy> Nope.
# [14:05] <sheppy> That's a youngster.
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# [14:09] * markh is working on a 5xxxxx bug...
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# [14:11] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/bdd3ef5f4f24 - David Burns - Bug 857000 - change location code to use getClientBoundingRect instead of calculating via offset r=mdas
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# [14:16] <AryehGregor> So what productive work do people find to do while their code is compiling?
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# [14:16] <AryehGregor> (I tend to write too much code that touches things like nsContentCreatorFunctions.h . . .)
# [14:17] <jandem> edmorley: hm builds are pending..
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# [14:19] <Optimize1> is there a way to make tooltips appear when the element is in focus for some time. Just like when the element is in hover for some time
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# [14:22] <Fallen> Is there a way to register a manifest based on a pref?
# [14:22] <Fallen> (a components manifest)
# [14:23] <Fallen> for example, lets say I want a compiled .so module to be loaded if pref is false, and a new set of js modules if the pref is true
# [14:24] <glazou_afk> Optimize1: xul, html ?
# [14:24] * glazou_afk is now known as glazou
# [14:24] <Optimize1> xul
# [14:24] <Optimize1> in browser
# [14:24] <glazou> tooltiptext="blah"
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# [14:24] <Optimize1> :|
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# [14:24] <Optimize1> srsly ?
# [14:25] <Optimize1> focus for some time, using keyboard
# [14:25] <Optimize1> no mouse hovering
# [14:25] <glazou> aah then no
# [14:25] <glazou> tooltiptext is for mouse hovering
# [14:26] <glazou> you only said "in focus" did not mention "kbd only"
# [14:27] <glazou> I don't think we have something already baked for that
# [14:27] <glazou> ask Enn?
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# [14:29] <edmorley> jandem: likely due to the l10n jobs that get triggered around this time
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# [14:33] <jandem> edmorley: ah ok :)
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# [14:37] <Yoric> mak: ping
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# [14:42] <mak> Yoric: pong
# [14:43] <Yoric> Hi
# [14:43] <Yoric> Any chance you could review the async storage soonish?
# [14:43] <Yoric> I am currently in review starvation and I would like to not get started on yet another big bug.
# [14:44] <mak> Yoric: yes, I will work on the review queue today/tomorrow
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# [14:44] <Yoric> thanks
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# [14:54] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/c03193ee070d - Jon Coppeard - Bug 855350 - GC: Add CustomAutoRooter and use it internally r=terrence
# [14:54] <Wusel_> is there an alternative to the mccoy-tool to create auto-updates to my addon?
# [14:55] <KaiRo> the easiest (and preferred) way to auto-update is to just upload the add-on to AMO
# [14:56] <Wusel_> it's an company-intern addon ;)
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# [14:57] <KaiRo> Wusel_: I think in that case, the stuff McCoy does is the best way
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# [15:13] <AryehGregor> Ms2ger, can you figure out what these failures might mean? They're blocking the sync of testharness.js. https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Try&rev=ae1ce91f3291
# [15:14] <AryehGregor> The line of code doesn't *look* like it should be any more of a problem now than it ever was . . .
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# [15:18] * Ms2ger looks
# [15:19] <Ms2ger> I bet I know
# [15:19] <RyanVM> jimm: FYI, I just unhid win8 tests on aurora
# [15:19] <RyanVM> jimm: I'll leave beta/fx21 for you :)
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# [15:21] <Ms2ger> AryehGregor, the testharness.js version you're updating to calls postMessage on the window itself
# [15:21] <AryehGregor> Oh!
# [15:21] <AryehGregor> Hah.
# [15:22] <Ms2ger> AryehGregor, the one on github has a fix for that, IIRC, but it broke idlharness.js
# [15:22] <AryehGregor> Hmm.
# [15:23] <Ms2ger> I guess I'd cherrypick that fix
# [15:23] <gabor> Enn: Hi, do you have a minute?
# [15:23] <Enn> sure
# [15:24] <gabor> Enn: sorry for bothering you with this again but regards of bug 820170
# [15:24] <gabor> Enn: would you prefer the custom hack in the getter that makes it return null or some other hack that nulls out mPopupNode as Ehsan suggested
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# [15:25] <Enn> I think the former is better if it's possible
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# [15:26] <Enn> unless there are cases where the pointer is invalid
# [15:26] <gabor> Enn: I think it is possible, and the pointer should not be invalid, just the object it keeps alive should not be returned at that point in time to JS
# [15:26] <Enn> ok
# [15:27] <AryehGregor> Ms2ger, cherry-pick the fix from github to where? Also, what's the canonical resources/ repo anyway?
# [15:27] <gabor> Enn: alright I'll file a patch for that and put bholley and you on the review if it works out on try
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# [15:28] <Ms2ger> AryehGregor, I guess github is canonical now
# [15:29] <AryehGregor> But it breaks idlharness.js?
# [15:29] <Ms2ger> Yep
# [15:29] <AryehGregor> And the version on w3c-test.org is still the dvcs.w3.org one?
# [15:29] <Ms2ger> No
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# [15:29] <AryehGregor> Oh, that goes to it?
# [15:29] <AryehGregor> That's confusing.
# [15:30] <Ms2ger> w3c-test.org mirrors github and adds an extra file, it seems
# [15:30] <Ms2ger> A symlink, probably
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# [15:33] <AryehGregor> Who broke idlharness?
# [15:33] <AryehGregor> And why?
# [15:33] <AryehGregor> Can that be reverted?
# [15:34] <Ms2ger> darobin
# [15:34] <Ms2ger> Because he wanted to upgrade to a new IDL parser, because the old one wasn't maintained
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# [15:35] <mounir> dholbert: ping
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# [15:38] <AryehGregor> Ah.
# [15:38] <AryehGregor> What's the point of upgrading to a new IDL parser if you break the only thing that was using it?
# [15:39] <Ms2ger> Ask him
# [15:39] <Ms2ger> I'm tired of the crap that's W3C testing
# [15:40] <AryehGregor> What's W3C about this?
# [15:40] <AryehGregor> Do you mean idlharness, or something specific to the W3C?
# [15:40] <Ms2ger> That and the crappy tests for touch events, lately
# [15:41] <@ted> Ms2ger: i have a question re: testing
# [15:41] <Ms2ger> Yes?
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# [15:41] <@ted> how would we write useful tests for the gamepad spec
# [15:42] <@ted> i have mochitests in-tree, but they rely on a GamepadTest service
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# [15:42] <@ted> should we just write manual tests, like "plug in a gamepad, press a button"
# [15:43] <Ms2ger> For the W3C? That's probably fine
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# [15:43] <Ms2ger> Not that they care for serious testing
# [15:44] <@ted> heh
# [15:45] <Ms2ger> You may not have chosen the best moment
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# [15:49] <jandem> RyanVM: ping
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# [15:50] <RyanVM> jandem: pong
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# [15:51] <jdm> ted: any ETA on the xpcshell timeout review?
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# [15:51] <jandem> RyanVM: we want to merge the BC branch to m-c soon
# [15:51] <@ted> jdm: i'll take a look today
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# [15:52] <RyanVM> jandem: niiiiice
# [15:52] <till> jandem++, that'll be so cool!
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# [15:52] <jandem> RyanVM: I assume the last commit needs green win32 pgo builds?
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# [15:53] <jandem> till: :)
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# [15:54] <RyanVM> jandem: would be good, yes
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# [15:54] <RyanVM> jandem: how soon is "soon"?
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# [15:54] <jandem> RyanVM: we hoped we could land today, but this PGO build will take another 3 hours, so..
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# [15:55] <jandem> RyanVM: maybe tomorrow before MV wakes up would be better..
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# [15:57] <RyanVM> jandem: hmm, so you've got PGO green, then an m-c merge, then a pretty small patch?
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# [15:57] <jandem> RyanVM: yep
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# [15:57] <RyanVM> i'm kind of liking now, actually
# [15:58] <RyanVM> because inbound is closed anyway, so we can merge it clean from m-c to inbound hopefully too
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# [15:58] <RyanVM> jandem: I'm game if you are
# [15:58] <mounir> can anyone describe the difference between nsBlockFrame and nsContainerFrame?
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# [15:59] <mounir> more than one inherits from the other ;)
# [15:59] <Yoric> :)
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# [15:59] <Yoric> That sounds like a good practice.
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# [16:01] <till> jandem: live dangerous, do it!
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# [16:02] <jwatt> Optimize1: sorry, missed your ping
# [16:02] <jwatt> Optimize1: I don't have my Windows machine handy, sorry
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# [16:05] <Optimize1> jwatt: ah, okay then i will wait for the respective Nightly
# [16:05] <Optimize1> :)
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# [16:09] <Ms2ger> edmorley, hey, do you know why there's no builds on https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Mozilla-Inbound&rev=c3b41432afea ?
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# [16:12] <RyanVM> coalesced out?
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# [16:13] <Ms2ger> But self-serve does seem to know about some builds
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# [16:17] <edmorley> Ms2ger: self serve shows completed jobs as though they ran on the run that had them coalesced (if that makes sense)
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# [16:17] <Ms2ger> Lovely
# [16:18] <Ms2ger> RyanVM++
# [16:18] <Ms2ger> edmorley++
# [16:18] <edmorley> there's also a 60s buildbot collapsing thing (for pushes made within 60s)
# [16:18] <Ms2ger> There still is?
# [16:18] <catlee> only sort of
# [16:19] * Ms2ger remembers that from his youth
# [16:19] <catlee> we only poll every 60s
# [16:19] <edmorley> ah yes that's it
# [16:19] <catlee> so if there are two pushes within that time, we make 2 build requests
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# [16:19] <catlee> but they immediately get coalesced
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# [16:20] <catlee> coalescing is greedy - it has no idea about available capacity
# [16:20] <NeilAway> we have available capacity?
# [16:20] <edmorley> outside of peak pst, yes
# [16:21] <edmorley> :-)
# [16:21] <catlee> we have lots of linux build capacity
# [16:21] <catlee> we should drop support for those other pesky OSes
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# [16:22] <BenWa> Is it just me or have build times really regressed lately :(
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# [16:23] <BenWa> I use to build osx64/fennec in 23/40 and now it's about 30/60 mins
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# [16:24] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/32125e0a9954 - Ryan VanderMeulen - Backed out changeset c03193ee070d (bug 855350) for crashes on a CLOSED TREE.
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# [16:25] <@ted> BenWa: there was just some discussion about this
# [16:25] <@ted> glazou posted something on his blog
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# [16:26] <BenWa> ted: We should get the mach build timestamp in TBPL logs. It would make it possible to later use TBPL to watch the build time changes across components
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# [16:26] <@ted> BenWa: http://brasstacks.mozilla.com/gofaster/#/
# [16:26] <@ted> FYI
# [16:27] <Ms2ger> Some of the moz* things have timestamps, no?
# [16:27] <@ted> http://brasstacks.mozilla.com/gofaster/#/executiontime/build
# [16:27] <@ted> but yeah, that doesn't have times per module or anything
# [16:27] <@ted> BenWa: we'd have to start building with mach on buildbot
# [16:27] <@ted> which isn't a terrible idea
# [16:27] <@ted> it's probably at the point where we could do that
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# [16:27] <BenWa> Yea, per module would make it possible to say 'ohh, we're now spending 2 extra minutes compiling IPDL files for example'
# [16:28] <@ted> right
# [16:28] <@ted> i suspect some of it is just the usual "we added a lot of code"
# [16:28] <@ted> but there might be a smoking gun here
# [16:28] <Ms2ger> And templates
# [16:28] <Ms2ger> And webidl
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# [16:29] <BenWa> I think it got worse disproportionately this last month. I don't buy the more code argument
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# [16:29] <Ms2ger> Then bisect :)
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# [16:36] <glandium> ted: times per tinderbox stages would be interesting already. Because make -f client.mk can be less than 50% of the entire build
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# [16:37] <@ted> yeah, the "check" portion is a lot of it
# [16:37] <@ted> that's broken down in those gofaster grahps
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# [16:38] <padenot> 4/b 13
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# [16:39] <Ms2ger> gps could analyze that over the weekend
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# [16:40] <Ms2ger> 26 minutes on make check for the random log I just opened
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# [16:42] <@ted> windows :-(
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# [16:42] <Ms2ger> That's linux32 debug
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# [16:46] <evilpie_> Who needs tests anyway?
# [16:46] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-beta/rev/7c65fa3a6187 - Mike Hommey - bug 812105: XULRunner Linux SDK packages need to go on a diet. r=ted, a=NPOTB
# [16:46] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-beta/rev/5f41d8b47686 - Alex Vincent - bug 847382: xulrunner builds are broken. r=glandium, a=NPOTB
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# [16:47] <Ms2ger> 59 minutes build, 6 minutes make buildsymbols, 12 minutes hg unbundle, and then some bits
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# [16:48] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-beta/rev/76d7f0959eb0 - Ben Hearsum - Add missing file from bug 812805. a=NPOTB
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# [16:55] <glazou> ehsan: ping
# [16:56] <@ehsan> hi
# [16:56] <glazou> hi
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# [17:01] <bz> AryehGregor: if what you have is an nsTArray, then yes
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# [17:09] <mounir> bz: in a XUL file, I have a display: inline-block <div> (inside a <vbox>) and I can't set its width in CSS, why is that?
# [17:09] <mounir> is it because of vbox magic?
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# [17:10] <jonco> RyanVM: hey I saw you backed my change out - sorry about that
# [17:10] <RyanVM> jonco: yeah, I tried pinging you
# [17:11] <jonco> RyanVM: yeah I didn't see it till after you left
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# [17:11] <RyanVM> i was going to have edmorley throw something at you, but he's working from home today
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# [17:13] <bz> mounir: I have no idea
# [17:13] <bz> mounir: are you trying to make it wider, or narrower?
# [17:13] <mounir> bz: hbox solves my problem
# [17:13] <mounir> bz: narrower
# [17:13] <bz> mounir: fun
# [17:13] <bz> mounir: I have no idea! ;)
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# [17:14] <bz> Actually, I sort of do
# [17:14] <mounir> bz: I don't understand the box model in XUL
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# [17:14] <bz> vbox probably stretches each kid to its full width and stacks them vertically, no?
# [17:14] <bz> whereas hbox stretches to its full height and stacks horizontally....
# [17:14] <mounir> with hbox, I have a 394px long box instead of the expected 400
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# [17:14] <bz> mounir: do you have borders or padding?
# [17:15] <mounir> yes I do
# [17:15] <bz> that's why
# [17:15] <mounir> this is taken into account in XUL?
# [17:15] <bz> who knows
# [17:15] <bz> sometimes it ai and sometimes it ain't
# [17:15] <mounir> :(
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# [17:15] <mounir> oh, I see...
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# [17:15] <bz> I mean, if I had your exact markup and spent some time with the code, I could give you an actual answer
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# [17:16] <mounir> bz: you will review my markup ;)
# [17:16] <mounir> bz: but (border + padding) *2 is exactly the difference I saw so that makes sense
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# [17:19] <AryehGregor> Ms2ger, cherry-picking the change you suggested works. Can I fold that into the patch and keep your review?
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# [17:19] <Ms2ger> AryehGregor, did I review? :)
# [17:19] <Ms2ger> AryehGregor, but go for it
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# [17:19] <AryehGregor> Ms2ger, I see r+ from you here. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=851916
# [17:20] <Ms2ger> That's... not actually that long ago :)
# [17:20] <mounir> bz: and now, I can't make things smaller :(
# [17:20] <AryehGregor> No, not really.
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# [17:21] <amiit> Hello everyone...
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# [17:23] <bz> mounir: why are you using XUL boxes? :(
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# [17:25] <mounir> bz: because I'm doomed :(
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# [17:25] <bz> mounir: I see
# [17:26] <mounir> bz: <input type='file'> contains XUL and the best way to do reftest is to use XUL :(
# [17:26] <glandium> is anyone working on the sorry state of the password manager, esp. wrt http authentication?
# [17:26] <bz> mounir: ah
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# [17:26] <bz> mounir: this is test code, I see.
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# [17:26] <mounir> bz: yeah, I'm not working on UI ;)
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# [17:27] <bz> mounir: I was worried that you were adding xul-implemented form control bits
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# [17:27] <bz> mounir: but I guess you already did. ;)
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# [17:29] <sicking> mounir: ping
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# [17:30] <Ms2ger> Clearly we should implement forms with XBL
# [17:30] <AryehGregor> error: conversion from already_AddRefed<nsTextNode> to non-scalar type nsCOMPtr<nsIContent> requested
# [17:30] <AryehGregor> This means I have to include nsTextNode.h, right?
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# [17:31] <Ms2ger> Mm
# [17:31] <Ms2ger> Worth a try
# [17:31] <AryehGregor> I suppose it can't know how to do it, otherwise.
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# [17:31] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/b31bfbb2bdc4 - Neil Rashbrook - Bug 856571 Move accesskey for Error Console's filter box back r=dao
# [17:32] <tbsaunde> yeah, it atleast needs to know a nsTextNode is a nsIContent :)
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# [17:32] <mounir> sicking: pong
# [17:32] <AryehGregor> Hmm, that didn't seem to do it.
# [17:32] <mounir> bz: if you can add ellipsis in the middle in CSS, I will gladly remove that XUL element from <input type='file'>
# [17:32] <sicking> mounir: would you be able to send an email to the webapps list explaining why Futures need a sync-resolve function for us to be able to use them in IDB?
# [17:32] * geekboy|afk is now known as geekboy
# [17:33] <Ms2ger> sicking, isn't that annevk's job now? :)
# [17:33] <annevk> sicking: so the spec has that kind of ability in theory fwiw
# [17:33] <dao> mounir: sounds like you want -moz-box-sizing:content-box
# [17:33] <annevk> sicking: but it seems very bad to abuse it
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# [17:33] <bz> AryehGregor: that doesn't work?
# [17:33] <bz> AryehGregor: that's dumb
# [17:33] <AryehGregor> It doesn't look like it . . .
# [17:34] <bz> AryehGregor: Let me fix that, one sec
# [17:34] <sicking> annevk: i'm not sure if you would consider it abuse to use it the way we would need to
# [17:34] <annevk> sicking: (resolve accepts a synchronous flag that's used when you're already in a queued task)
# [17:34] <annevk> sicking: if it's not abuse then you can use it :)
# [17:34] <mounir> dao: really? I thought that was coming with xul:label only
# [17:35] <annevk> sicking: I guess the main thing is that the Future is not created in the same task that one of its callbacks is called
# [17:35] <dao> mounir: -moz-box-sizing:content-box should solve your border+padding problem
# [17:35] <mounir> dao: oh that? not a big deal, really
# [17:35] <bz> AryehGregor: Give me a few mins to write up a patch for you to try
# [17:36] <mounir> I just put 406 in the ref, it's just a test
# [17:36] <mounir> sicking: I guess annevk and I can figure that out
# [17:36] <AryehGregor> bz, is there some reason why NS_NewTextNode isn't going to be able to return already_AddRefed<nsTextNode>? You seem to be asking me as a question.
# [17:36] <sicking> annevk: that flag doesn't appear to be exposed in the API?
# [17:36] <AryehGregor> I guess the idea is that you want an out-param to be as general a type as possible, but a return value should be as specific as possible.
# [17:37] <sicking> annevk, mounir: awesome, it would be very helpful. The same question keeps coming up over and over and it would be good to have an email to point to
# [17:37] <Ms2ger> Looks like nsCOMPtr<T> only accepts already_AddRefed<T>
# [17:37] <annevk> sicking: right
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# [17:37] <bz> MS2ger: sorta
# [17:37] * catlee is now known as catlee-afk
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# [17:37] <bz> nsRefPtr<nsTextNode> foo;
# [17:37] <bz> nsCOMPtr<nsIContent> bar(foo.forget());
# [17:37] <bz> nsCOMPtr<nsIContent> baz = foo.forget();
# [17:37] <bz> That second line compiles
# [17:37] <bz> the third does not
# [17:37] <Ms2ger> Mmm
# [17:37] <bz> I posit that's a bug
# [17:37] <bz> and plan to fix
# [17:38] <sicking> annevk: so that means that you can't implement certain types of APIs in JS?
# [17:38] <@ted> pretty sure the C++ spec says those should be equivalent
# [17:38] <annevk> sicking: but I'd think if you created your own future you'd control the resolver yourself and not via a public API that people can hack via prototypes
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# [17:38] <AryehGregor> Well, I just changed my code to use an nsRefPtr<nsTextNode> instead of nsCOMPtr<nsIContent>, and that works.
# [17:38] <sicking> annevk: or at least you can't have them use Futures
# [17:38] <AryehGregor> Seems like a reasonable idea on general principle, too.
# [17:38] <bz> well
# [17:38] <sicking> annevk: how do you mean?
# [17:38] <AryehGregor> Although a bit unusual.
# [17:38] <bz> for some callers, yes
# [17:38] <bz> Quite a good idea, in fact
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# [17:38] <annevk> sicking: I guess that's true
# [17:38] <annevk> sicking: note that doing anything other than http://promises-aplus.github.com/promises-spec/ will greatly upset the developer community
# [17:38] <bz> The problems start when your patch becomes huge. ;)
# [17:39] <bz> Unless you split it up more, of course
# [17:39] <AryehGregor> Hmm?
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# [17:39] <bz> AryehGregor: I guess you're touching all the callsites anyway, though....
# [17:39] <bz> AryehGregor: so this won't make it worse
# [17:39] <bz> So this is confusing
# [17:39] <AryehGregor> Of what?
# [17:39] <bz> AryehGregor: of NS_NewTextNode
# [17:39] <annevk> sicking: anyway, will talk to mounir some more
# [17:39] <AryehGregor> There are only a few call sites anyway.
# [17:40] <annevk> sicking: btw you have a few more minutes?
# [17:40] <Ms2ger> bz, I don't actually see how the constructor works
# [17:40] <bz> already_AddRefed<T> has a conversion operator to already_AddRefed<U>
# [17:40] <annevk> sicking: if we expose a Stream from XHR; once you read from it the data is thrown away right? so it's different from say a MediaStream
# [17:40] <bz> which is why the constructor works
# [17:40] <sicking> annevk: yes, I think we should define that callers MUST NOT call the sync-resolve function unless they are at the top of the callstack. Or as Alex put it, if it's possible for callbacks registered through .then/.done to tell that the sync resolve function was called
# [17:40] <Ms2ger> Ah
# [17:40] <bz> but why does operator= not work, then?
# [17:40] <sicking> annevk: awesome, thanks
# [17:40] <Ms2ger> More conversions?
# [17:41] <bz> Unclear
# [17:41] * bz is reading error messages carefully
# [17:41] <sicking> annevk: yes, the data is thrown away once read. I didn't know MediaStream didn't do that?
# [17:41] <Ms2ger> ted, :D
# [17:41] <sicking> annevk: can you rewind a MediaStream?
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# [17:41] <annevk> sicking: MediaStream can have multiple consumers
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# [17:41] <bz> ../../../dist/include/nsCOMPtr.h:543:7: note: candidate constructor not viable: no known conversion from 'already_AddRefed<nsTextNode>' to 'const already_AddRefed<nsIContent> &' for 1st argument
# [17:41] <bz> nsCOMPtr( const already_AddRefed<T>& aSmartPtr )
# [17:41] <annevk> sicking: do we want to support multiple consumers?
# [17:42] <bz> wtf?
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# [17:42] <sicking> annevk: i had imagined doing that by using a Tee of some sort
# [17:42] <sicking> annevk: i.e. that you could plug a Stream into an object that returns two Streams
# [17:42] <sicking> annevk: and reading from one wouldn't affect the other
# [17:42] <bz> ../../../dist/include/nsCOMPtr.h:170:5: note: candidate template ignored: failed template argument deduction
# [17:42] <bz> operator already_AddRefed<U>()
# [17:42] <bz> That's why
# [17:43] <Ms2ger> Ah
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# [17:43] <bz> but why did that fail?
# [17:43] <bz> For operator=
# [17:43] <bz> but not for the nsCOMPtr ctor?
# [17:43] <Ms2ger> You can't deduce the template from what you're assigning it to
# [17:43] <annevk> sicking: I see, mounir said something similar
# [17:43] <sicking> annevk: but I'd be curious to know how MediaStream works and why it was designed in that way
# [17:43] <Ms2ger> That's why do_QI is implemented so strangely
# [17:43] <bz> how does it work for the ctor, then?
# [17:43] <annevk> sicking: yeah I emailed the group responsible for that API
# [17:43] <Ms2ger> That's an argument
# [17:43] <Ms2ger> Which would be fine?
# [17:43] <bz> um
# [17:44] <bz> but this is an argument too
# [17:44] <bz> to operator=
# [17:44] <annevk> sicking: the main reason they have it that way is to allow for both <video> to display it and WebSocket to send it and such
# [17:44] <annevk> sicking: which makes sense
# [17:44] <sicking> annevk: i think the main important thing is that we can throw away the data once read, unless someone has somehow indicated that they would like to read the data too
# [17:44] * Ms2ger wonders
# [17:44] <NeilAway> Ms2ger: there was some early form control code that was written in xbl, it hung around for some time before it eventually got dropped
# [17:44] <Ms2ger> bz, bar.operator=(foo.forget())?
# [17:45] <Ms2ger> NeilAway, I'm aware, unfortunately :)
# [17:45] <annevk> sicking: okay, so if you create a reader for it that does nothing, it'll silently fill up your memory
# [17:45] <@ehsan> RyanVM: should we reopen inbound?
# [17:45] <sicking> annevk: i didn't follow that?
# [17:45] <annevk> sicking: well each reader wants to have access to everything it has not yet read right?
# [17:46] <RyanVM> ehsan: i'm going to merge BC into it first
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# [17:46] <@ehsan> BC?
# [17:46] <Ms2ger> BC? Now?
# [17:46] <bz> Ms2ger: let me try it
# [17:46] <sicking> annevk: does that mean that you can hook up a MediaStream to a <video> and display video for 5 minutes. And then 5 minutes later hook it up to a WebSocket and it'll stream the past 5 minutes as well?
# [17:46] <bz> and yes, bc now, apparently
# [17:46] <annevk> sicking: so you have the main object, and then you have each reader that has a pointer of sorts into the main object as to what's been read; and once all pointers have moved forward, you can discard some data
# [17:46] <@ehsan> what's BC?
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# [17:46] <Ms2ger> Baseline compiler, if it's this BC
# [17:46] <@ehsan> \o/
# [17:46] <bz> nsCOMPtr<nsIContent> baz;
# [17:46] <bz> baz = foo.forget();
# [17:47] <annevk> sicking: no, pretty sure that's not how it'd work
# [17:47] <bz> _That_ compiles
# [17:47] <Ms2ger> mmm
# [17:47] <NeilAway> ted: c++ is evil
# [17:47] * bz hates C++ sometimes.
# [17:47] * Ms2ger stabs mhoye in the face
# [17:47] <annevk> sicking: although that is how Microsoft's Stream API seems to be designed (basically Blob without size)
# [17:47] <NeilAway> ted: foo bar(baz); and foo bar = baz; are subtly different
# [17:47] <bz> Ms2ger: ?
# [17:47] <bz> ok
# [17:47] <bz> so why does normal assignment work
# [17:47] <bz> and construction work
# [17:48] <bz> but "assignment while constructing" not work?
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# [17:48] <NeilAway> bz: because that needs an extra conversion, and you're only allowed one implicitly
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# [17:48] <sicking> annevk: regarding the pointer thing: Yes. I think that's fine. As long as you have to add all readers up front. Otherwise we have to keep all data around indefinitiely just in case someone adds more readers later
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# [17:48] <Ms2ger> bz, 5 threads for five messages in one thread is pretty bad even for our newsgroups
# [17:49] <annevk> sicking: if you add a new reader, it should just at the earliest pointer I think
# [17:49] <@ted> we should get rid of the newsgroups
# [17:49] <@ted> mailing lists + web interface
# [17:49] <NeilAway> ted--
# [17:49] <Ms2ger> ted--
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# [17:49] <sicking> annevk: no, that means that you're dependent on what some other reader has done. That makes it hard to predict what you'll get if you add a new reader
# [17:49] <NeilAway> we should get rid of the mailinglists + web interface
# [17:49] <annevk> ted++
# [17:49] <@ted> newsgroups are ancient and ridiculous
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# [17:50] <@ehsan> ted++
# [17:50] <@ted> only luddites care about them
# [17:50] <@ted> and they complicate *everything*
# [17:50] <bz> ted--
# [17:50] <annevk> sicking: I meant earliest in the stream
# [17:50] <annevk> sicking: as everything else may or may not have been discarded already
# [17:50] * @ted is only at -1
# [17:50] <@ted> not too bad :)
# [17:50] <bz> ted: ;)
# [17:50] <reuben> c++ is perfect and has no flaws
# [17:50] <bz> ted: seriously, our web interface sucks so much it's unbelievable
# [17:50] <Ms2ger> reuben--
# [17:50] <sicking> annevk: i wonder if your "earliest" is what I would call "latest"
# [17:51] <bz> ted: so the main impact on me of us getting rid of the newsgroups is I'd stop following most of those lists
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# [17:51] <bz> ted: Possibly all of them.
# [17:51] <annevk> sicking: pointer that's closest to the start of the stream?
# [17:51] <@ted> bz: a prerequisite for dropping the newsgroups would be "get rid of google groups, get a better web interface"
# [17:51] <bz> ted: (I suspect I'd _have_ to follow platform to know what the heck is going on....)
# [17:51] <bz> ted: ah, ok
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# [17:52] <@ted> bz: also, any reason you can't use the mailing list?
# [17:52] <bz> ted: well, if we had a web interface that let me do local caching of the posts, local storage of my responses...
# [17:52] <sicking> annevk: oh, then that's indeed earliest. I think that's a bad idea since then the data that you'll get depends on what other readers have read, no?
# [17:52] <@ted> that would be super clever, i bet no such thing exists
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# [17:52] <bz> ted: My mail is my "push, you need to deal with this" stuff....
# [17:52] <bz> ted: I could try setting up filters to preemptively filter all this new stuff away
# [17:52] <@ted> i filter all my mailing lists to folders
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# [17:52] <@ted> and read them as needed
# [17:53] <annevk> sicking: oh you mean it might not be fresh?
# [17:53] <bz> ted: Also, mail has no "kill thread"
# [17:53] * Ms2ger read "French"
# [17:53] <bz> ted: which I do in fact use for these lists
# [17:53] <sicking> annevk: i just mean that it's hard to predict. Leading to subtle bugs
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# [17:53] <mbrubeck> ehsan++ for "mach debug" (bug 857600)
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# [17:53] <annevk> sicking: on the other extreme it'll depend on network tasks
# [17:53] <Ms2ger> bz, newsgroups only barely have one, thanks to mailman :/
# [17:53] <@ted> bz: ah
# [17:53] <bz> ted: I guess now that I have server-side filters it might not be too bad
# [17:54] <sicking> annevk: how so?
# [17:54] <annevk> sicking: like you could put its pointer all the way at the end and start feeding when new data comes in
# [17:54] <froydnj> RyanVM: I don't always merge from central, but when I do, I do it on a CLOSED TREE
# [17:54] <bz> ted: with only client-side ones, it sucked a lot
# [17:54] <AryehGregor> bz, so if NS_NewTextNode returns already_AddRefed<nsTextNode>, I should just make it include nsTextNode.h?
# [17:54] <@ehsan> mbrubeck: your mach run was my inspiration :)
# [17:54] * bz did try it once
# [17:54] <@ted> yeah
# [17:54] <sicking> annevk: hrm… i have to head into the next meeting, and i think that'll be the end of my availability today :(
# [17:54] <bz> AryehGregor: which "it"?
# [17:54] * @ted setup server-side filters
# [17:54] <AryehGregor> bz, er, nsContentCreatorFunctions.h, where it's declared.
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# [17:54] <bz> well, so
# [17:54] <annevk> sicking: well this was very useful for me nonetheless
# [17:54] <sicking> annevk: i don't think i understand the model you are proposing
# [17:54] <mbrubeck> ehsan: Yeah, I looked over you patch to make sure it didn't hit any of the snags I originally ran into. :)
# [17:54] <mbrubeck> s/you/your/
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# [17:55] <@ehsan> mbrubeck: does it?
# [17:55] <bz> But people may want some other function from there and not care about textnode
# [17:55] <bz> so no, I don't think we should do that
# [17:55] <Ms2ger> Move NS_NewTextNode to nsTextNode.h?
# [17:55] <bz> That's what forward-declarations are fo
# [17:55] <bz> er, for
# [17:55] <annevk> sicking: in particular the Tee concept
# [17:55] <Ms2ger> Also
# [17:55] <bz> Yes, I could definitely live with that. ;)
# [17:55] <annevk> sicking: enjoy the meeting ;)
# [17:55] <sicking> annevk: what i'm proposing is that there's Stream objects. When you read data from them the data is discarded. You can "clone" a Stream using a Tee. The new stream will then return the same set of data as the current stream will return
# [17:55] <Ms2ger> Is that the one that's included in contentutils?
# [17:55] <sicking> annevk: when you read from one clone that doesn't affect other clones
# [17:56] <RyanVM> froydnj: being the sheriff has its perks (if you can call them that) ;)
# [17:56] <annevk> sicking: agreed
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# [17:56] <Ms2ger> Ah, no
# [17:56] <annevk> sicking: but if you can limit how much you read or when you read you can end up at various places throughout the same stream
# [17:56] <annevk> sicking: so if you then clone it again, you need to start somewhere
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# [17:57] <sicking> annevk: you also lost the function from the FutureResolver which does the "pass this as the accept-value, no matter if it happens to be a Future object or not"
# [17:57] <sicking> ?
# [17:57] <annevk> sicking: do you start where the reader is that's the furthest, or do you start at the head, etc.
# [17:57] <annevk> sicking: yeah, most libraries didn't have that
# [17:57] <RyanVM> tree's open, have fun
# [17:58] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/498538b6a1cd - Jason Smith - Bug 850587 - Test for autoplay not working with MediaStreams. r=roc
# [17:58] <sicking> annevk: it seemed useful though. Otherwise we can't allow storing Futures in IDB for example
# [17:58] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/d30f993f121f - Andrea Marchesini - Bug 857549 - Remove nsIDOMDOMLocator.idl. r=Ms2ger
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# [17:58] <sicking> (things that derive from Futures specifically)
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# [17:59] <RyanVM> and closed again
# [17:59] <RyanVM> argh
# [17:59] <@ehsan> gah
# [17:59] <Ms2ger> RyanVM++
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# [17:59] <@ehsan> yeah was just about to ping you :(
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# [17:59] <RyanVM> jandem's on it :)
# [17:59] * jcranmer|away is now known as jcranmer
# [18:00] <@ehsan> RyanVM: according to #jsapi he just went to get dinner
# [18:00] <bz> mcmanus: ping
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# [18:00] <annevk> sicking: I don't really see why directly, but we can add that whenever
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# [18:00] <RyanVM> ehsan: we're chatting ;)
# [18:00] <@ehsan> RyanVM: well, shut my mouth then :)
# [18:00] <RyanVM> :)
# [18:01] * coop|afk is now known as coop
# [18:01] <@ted> mmm, Rust-on-Android
# [18:02] <Ms2ger> Eh, rust
# [18:02] <Ms2ger> That still exists?
# [18:03] <bz> "
# [18:03] <bz> The requirement for user agents to present longdesc to all users through their
# [18:03] <bz> standard interface(s) must be a must."
# [18:03] <bz> WTF?
# [18:03] * froydnj is sure glad he wrote his reset-hg-head script
# [18:03] <Ms2ger> Bwahahahaha
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# [18:03] <RyanVM> must be a must, eh
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# [18:03] <Ms2ger> Though
# [18:03] <Ms2ger> "longdesc"
# [18:03] <Ms2ger> WTF
# [18:03] <tbsaunde> bz: and your the jerk who put that bug in a component I watch :p
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# [18:04] <tbsaunde> ;)
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# [18:05] <bz> tbsaunde: what?
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# [18:05] <bz> tbsaunde: oh, the longdesc bug on us
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# [18:06] <jcranmer> bz: didn't we wontfix that bugger?
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# [18:07] <bz> jcranmer: dunno
# [18:07] <Ms2ger> jcranmer, people listen to some idiots at the W3C, unfortunately
# [18:07] <bz> ok
# [18:07] <bz> So why does the nsCOMPtr<foo> = bar; thing need two conversions?
# [18:07] <bz> One conversion to convert to a ctor?
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# [18:08] <bz> and one to convert to the right argument type?
# [18:08] * bz mutters
# [18:08] <jcranmer> bug 1996 was filed in 1998?
# [18:08] <jcranmer> that seems... suboptimal :-P
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# [18:09] <tbsaunde> bz: yeah, I assumed that's where the quote came from apparently incorrectly
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# [18:09] <bz> tbsaunde: it's from a w3c bug. ;)
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# [18:09] <bz> to make it a "must" spec requirement
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# [18:09] <bz> which is just not OK
# [18:10] <NeilAway> bz: http://stackoverflow.com/a/1051468
# [18:10] <Ms2ger> Ehehehehehe
# [18:10] <tbsaunde> bz: heh
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# [18:10] <Ms2ger> bz, you must be the only person who still cares about the HTMLWG
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# [18:11] * jimm is now known as jimm-lunch
# [18:11] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/798d734dc32a - Jan de Mooij - No bug - Fix merge conflict on a CLOSED TREE. r=red
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# [18:15] <bz> Ms2ger: it's possible
# [18:16] <bz> NeilAway: reading
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# [18:17] <bz> NeilAway: ugh
# [18:17] <NeilAway> bz: particularly that last code block blew my mind
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# [18:21] <deinspanjer> Hey guys.. does anyone know why a bookmarklet wouldn't work on an about: page?
# [18:21] <bz> template<typename U>
# [18:21] <bz> nsCOMPtr( const already_AddRefed<U>& aSmartPtr )
# [18:21] <bz> : NSCAP_CTOR_BASE(nullptr)
# [18:21] <bz> // construct from |dont_AddRef(expr)| for a superclass
# [18:21] <bz> {
# [18:21] <bz> *this = aSmartPtr;
# [18:21] <bz> }
# [18:21] <bz> This seems to make things work
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# [18:22] * bz wonders whether the compiler manages to optimize away the extra set-to-null
# [18:22] <bz> Or whether I can manage to avoid it somehow...
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# [18:22] <bz> Oh, I bet I can
# [18:22] * bz tries
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# [18:22] <deinspanjer> It works in the web console, but not the address bar / bookmarklet.
# [18:23] <bz> deinspanjer: because "security"
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# [18:24] <bz> deinspanjer: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=804446
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# [18:24] <bz> er...
# [18:24] <deinspanjer> but but.. I don't want security! ;)
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# [18:25] <bz> there was a similar bug for desktop
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# [18:25] * bz finds bug numbers
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# [18:25] <deinspanjer> bz: Thanks, I see it in comment #0
# [18:25] <bz> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=656433
# [18:25] <bz> Ah, indeed
# [18:25] <bz> So it _usually_ works
# [18:26] <bz> but about: pages are special
# [18:26] <bz> being chrome-principal often
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# [18:26] <bz> That's one major reason I don't use our normal start page...
# [18:26] <bz> Because it breaks too much stuff for me.
# [18:26] <deinspanjer> bz: I figured it had to be security, but I was hoping someone would be able to point me to the specifics as you did so I could think about an alternate plan of action
# [18:27] <yzen> Yoric: ping
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# [18:28] <deinspanjer> Maybe a lightweight add-on..
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# [18:29] <jimb> Is it really okay that nsFrameMessageManager::ReceiveMessage just eats errors thrown by listeners?
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# [18:29] <sfink> ehsan: I had no intention of landing |mach jumpshark|, but do you/gps think the aliasing part is worthwhile? Unless we had a specific need, I figured it was just extra complexity.
# [18:29] <jimb> (I think it's terrible.)
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# [18:29] <annevk> where is the longdesc drama?
# [18:29] <@ehsan> sfink: I like that, since I think we can come up with useful shorcuts
# [18:29] <@ehsan> such as bc for mochitest-browser
# [18:30] <sfink> ok, I'll file a real bug for it
# [18:30] <@ehsan> m for mochitest
# [18:30] <bz> deinspanjer: good luck!
# [18:30] <@ehsan> etc
# [18:30] <@ehsan> sfink: you can just morph that bug right? :)
# [18:30] <@ehsan> sfink: sorry if I was a bit harsh in my comment, did not mean for it to be that way
# [18:30] <deinspanjer> bz: thanks again
# [18:30] <@ehsan> but I'm a little sensitive to mach jokes these days ;)
# [18:30] <sfink> ehsan: but I filed bug 855160 because I wasn't convinced that |mach search| was totally consistent with "a serious tool" in the first place
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# [18:32] <sfink> I like mach, but if it ends up being a dumping ground of random functionality, I worry that it'll cause more problems than it solves
# [18:33] <jimb> Wow, 'mach search'???
# [18:33] <jimb> Is... that better than just doing the search oneself?
# [18:33] <sfink> it's worse than that
# [18:33] <@ehsan> sfink: I have no particular attachment to mach search :)
# [18:33] <sfink> mach search = mach google + mach mxr + something else
# [18:33] <@ehsan> and I agree that it probably doesn't belong in mach
# [18:33] <jimb> yeah, I read the comment
# [18:33] <@ehsan> mach mxr is useful though
# [18:33] <Ms2ger> Yeah, I was't too impressed by it either
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# [18:34] <jimb> ehsan: What is mach mxr useful for?
# [18:34] <@ehsan> sfink: I'd file another bug to remove mach search in fact
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# [18:34] <sfink> having used it, I've decided I like mach mxr too
# [18:34] <@ehsan> jimb: for mxr-ing something that git grep cannot find :)
# [18:34] * jimb is open-minded
# [18:34] <@ehsan> same thing with mach dxr
# [18:34] <jimb> ... for example?
# [18:34] <@ehsan> for example, code that is landed after you updated your checkout
# [18:35] <@ehsan> mach mxr is the next step after git grep for me
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# [18:35] <jimb> I see.
# [18:35] <@ehsan> it's useful to be able to run it on the command line
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# [18:35] <@ehsan> however, if you run mach search cute cat, then you probably should not be working :)
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# [18:35] <sfink> that's why I like |mach mxr|. I don't need to leave the command line until it's useful to do so.
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# [18:36] <jimb> ehsan: Well, dxr and mxr are at least directly about the Mozilla source tree.
# [18:36] * jimb has an Emacs command for opening the present location in DXR
# [18:36] <Ms2ger> People use dxr?
# [18:36] <@ehsan> right
# [18:36] <@ehsan> yes they do
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# [18:37] <jimb> Emacs open-dxr-here: http://www.pastebin.mozilla.org/2270568
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# [18:39] <sfink> jimb: hm, that's going to find the netwerk in my objdir, since I keep it under my srcdir. I may have to replace that with |hg root|.
# [18:39] <jimb> I guess nsIMessageListener exceptions being ignored is not really different from observer exceptions being ignored.
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# [18:40] <jimb> sfink: I do the same.
# [18:40] <jimb> sfink: You won't use it on files in your objdir.
# [18:40] <sfink> ah! fair enough
# [18:40] <jimb> sfink: It walks up parent directories from the current file.
# [18:40] <sfink> right
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# [18:41] <jimb> sfink: But sure, a better algorithm there would be nice.
# [18:41] <sfink> jimb: thanks, it now has a happy home in ~/.emacs.d/50-dxr.el
# [18:41] <jimb> yay
# [18:42] <sfink> jimb: that reminds me, http://people.mozilla.org/~sfink/data/debug is the thing I use to open up emacs with gud-gdb running inside of it on the rest of the command line
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# [18:42] <sfink> that sentence may be unnecessarily hard to parse
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# [18:43] <sfink> oh. Just uploaded a newer version.
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# [18:43] <jimb> ah, right
# [18:43] * Ms2ger wonders why all the networking files were prefixed with "mk."
# [18:43] <jimb> "microkernel"
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# [18:44] <jimb> (not true)
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# [18:45] <luisbg> anybody uses icecream to build (distributed) mozilla-central?
# [18:45] <Ms2ger> I eat icecream
# [18:45] <sfink> I use distcc, and sometimes chocolate sauce.
# [18:46] <db48x`> making me hungry
# [18:47] <luisbg> sfink, I'm having issues with icecream. did setting up distcc entail anything besides running scheduler/daemon and setting the $PATH ?
# [18:47] <sfink> luisbg: I use it with ccache, so I set up CCACHE_PREFIX=distcc
# [18:47] <sfink> luisbg: and I always have the usual firewall problems with distccd
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# [18:47] <sfink> need to open up port 3632 (both udp and tcp are registered, I don't know if they're really both used)
# [18:48] <bz> How can I suppress an unused-variable warning?
# [18:48] * wlach_ is now known as wlach
# [18:48] <Ms2ger> bz, (void) or unused <<
# [18:48] <sfink> luisbg: so I didn't set the $PATH for distcc, since I get there via cccache
# [18:48] <luisbg> sfink, will look into the differences of distcc and icecream and see if I should just use distcc
# [18:48] <luisbg> sfink, works with mach fine for you. so that is a good sign
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# [18:48] <luisbg> sfink, any URL you follow when you are setting it up?
# [18:48] <dholbert> mounir, pong
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# [18:49] <sfink> luisbg: no. I've been using it long enough that I wouldn't remember if there were.
# [18:50] <luisbg> sfink, cool. thanks
# [18:50] <luisbg> sfink, how many build-potential machines do you have around and how much does it cut of building time?
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# [18:51] <sfink> luisbg: I build on my laptop, with a single distcc server available. (A different one depending on whether I'm at home or at work, and I have a cron job that autodetects what IP to use and updates a ~/.distcc/hosts symlink.)
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# [18:51] <bz> http://www.pastebin.mozilla.org/2270606
# [18:51] <bz> How do people feel about that?
# [18:51] <sfink> I don't have any rigorous timings, but it helps a lot
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# [18:52] <sfink> luisbg: but it's heavily dependent on the network, and sometimes it gets into a weird state where it actually slows things down because it's spending way too much time sending and receiving the data
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# [18:53] <sfink> luisbg: I use distccmon-gnome to keep an eye on what's happening
# [18:53] <jimb> "11:58.76 AnimalEventBinding.cpp"
# [18:53] <bz> https://www.khronos.org/webgl/public-mailing-list/archives/1304/msg00021.html is awesome
# [18:54] <sfink> I still don't know why the network problem happens
# [18:54] <bz> Ms2ger, NeilAway: see pastebin above?
# [18:54] <Ms2ger> bz, I've always wanted an upcast<T> for that
# [18:54] <khuey> so
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# [18:55] <khuey> what are we waiting for to reopen the tree?
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# [18:55] <sfink> I assume the BC merge results
# [18:55] <luisbg> sfink, looks like icecream's only advantage is for shared build servers/slaves which isn't my case :)
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# [18:56] <bz> Ms2ger: I wish static_cast were willing to only go on direction here. ;)
# [18:56] <bz> ms2ger: in any case, seems to work in my testing....
# [18:56] <luisbg> sfink, going to switch to trying distcc then. thanks for the tips! :)
# [18:56] <sfink> good luck
# [18:56] <luisbg> sfink, what distro do you use?
# [18:56] <Ms2ger> wfm, then
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# [18:56] <Ms2ger> bz, ... so how about nsRefPtr? :)
# [18:56] <luisbg> hello Ms2ger
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# [18:56] <khuey> sfink: why would we do that?
# [18:56] <sfink> khuey: though the lack of *builds* after this long seems suspicious
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# [18:57] <mounir> dholbert: sorry, un-ping ;)
# [18:57] <khuey> if it were going to die in js/src we would have noticed by now
# [18:57] <bz> Ms2ger: in what sense?
# [18:58] <sfink> khuey: you're right, since I think we did on the first try :)
# [18:58] <bz> nsRefPtr<nsTextNode> foo;
# [18:58] <bz> nsRefPtr<nsIContent> bar(foo.forget());
# [18:58] <bz> nsRefPtr<nsIContent> baz = foo.forget();
# [18:58] <bz> That already compiles
# [18:58] <bz> with no changes
# [18:58] * Fallen|away is now known as Fallen
# [18:58] <Ms2ger> Excellent
# [18:58] <sfink> khuey: anyway, RyanVM said he closed it at 9:02, so ask him
# [18:58] <khuey> RyanVM: ping
# [18:58] <bz> template <typename I>
# [18:58] <bz> nsRefPtr( const already_AddRefed<I>& aSmartPtr )
# [18:58] <bz> : mRawPtr(aSmartPtr.mRawPtr)
# [18:58] <bz> // construct from |dont_AddRef(expr)|
# [18:58] <bz> {
# [18:58] <bz> }
# [18:59] <RyanVM> khuey: fair point, just wanted to see some tests kick off
# [18:59] <bz> Because nsRefPtr doesn't play games with the type of mRawPtr
# [18:59] <bz> So it did this right all along
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# [19:00] <Ms2ger> Ah
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# [19:00] <khuey> RyanVM: hmm self-serve seems to have some results ...
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# [19:00] <RyanVM> khuey: i guess things have enough of a head start
# [19:00] <RyanVM> open
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# [19:00] <khuey> oh and the reds are on hidden things
# [19:01] <khuey> ok then
# [19:01] <khuey> RyanVM: huzzah
# [19:01] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/b436cad50c33 - Kyle Huey - Bug 849654: Kill nsRefPtrHashtableMT. r=bsmedberg
# [19:01] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/ef873e1fb7e9 - Kyle Huey - Bug 855804: Add hashtable helpers for cycle collection. r=bz
# [19:01] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/0caf5937f8bc - Kyle Huey - Bug 854799: Make image.src='' discard the image immediately even if the image is not in the document. r=jlebar
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# [19:02] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/6bcb665562b0 - Kyle Huey - Bug 857186: Make virtualenv paths relative. r=gps
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# [19:04] * bz wonders who should review nsCOMPtr changes.
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# [19:04] <Ms2ger> Eh, ehsan will do
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# [19:05] <bz> Oh, good idea
# [19:05] <bz> aryehgregor: ping
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# [19:06] <jimb> Only specific nsIObserverService notifications that are handled explicitly get propagated to content children, right? (/me sees ContentParent::Observe)
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# [19:06] <mbrubeck> For people interested in the "more project branches?" discussion, I made a proposal for a Metro Firefox project branch: https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/metro/2013-April/000173.html
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# [19:07] <bz> mmm
# [19:07] <bz> so BC is on inbound now?
# [19:07] * bz pulls
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# [19:12] <bz> is free(0) ok with jemalloc?
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# [19:13] <Waldo> bz: better be, free is supposed to accept null
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# [19:13] <mjrosenb> wow, we're basically the top 3 links on hn right now.
# [19:13] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/80cdf471a472 - Matt Brubeck - Bug 841058 (followup) - Remove unused code missed in previous patch [r=jimm]
# [19:13] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/4a6fd35a9a53 - Matt Brubeck - Bug 857332 - Normalize topobjdir to an absolute path in mozbuild.base [r=gps]
# [19:14] <bz> ok
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# [19:21] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/7dbef35abf2a - Nathan Froyd - Bug 839103 - part 2 - enable chrome dispatching of nsIDOMEvents in nsAsyncDOMEvent; r=bz
# [19:22] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/90c602d8475a - Nathan Froyd - Bug 839103 - part 3 - send StyleSheet{Added,Removed} chrome notifications when stylesheets are added/removed; r=bz
# [19:22] <NeilAway> bz: why not NSCAP_LOG_ASSIGNMENT(this, T); ?
# [19:22] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/c0e889e95154 - Nathan Froyd - Bug 839103 - part 4 - add test for StyleSheet{Added,Removed} events; r=bz
# [19:22] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/0d8f05e03872 - Nathan Froyd - Bug 839103 - part 1 - factor out StyleSheet{Added,Removed} notifications into separate nsDocument methods; r=bz
# [19:22] <NeilAway> philor/RyanVM: any idea what 268451842 is?
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# [19:23] <jimb> (format "%x" 268451842) "10004002"
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# [19:24] <RyanVM> NeilAway: a new orange that needs filing?
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# [19:25] <RyanVM> NeilAway: not entirely sure whta you're looking at - you mean the orange on your m-c push?
# [19:25] <RyanVM> ah yes, in the error message
# [19:25] <RyanVM> yep, file it and CC luke I'd say
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# [19:29] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/f20b0ce9e528 - Timur Timirkhanov - Bug 843492 - Bootstrapping fails using Python 3x due to urllib2; r=gps
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# [19:29] <bz> ooh, BC doesn't need a clobber
# [19:29] <bz> spiffy
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# [19:29] <bz> NeilAway: dunno
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# [19:30] <Ms2ger> bz, ... it doesn't?
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# [19:30] <bz> NeilAway: You mean (this, unused)?
# [19:30] <bz> ms2ger: well, I just pulled
# [19:30] <bz> ms2ger: and started builds...
# [19:30] <bz> oh, autoclobber maybe
# [19:31] * bz forgot we do that transparently and unavoidably now... ;)
# [19:31] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/3bb88ea0881e - Sriram Ramasubramanian - Bug 856767: Finalize cursors on about:home. [r=mfinkle]
# [19:31] <Ms2ger> bz, I set up NO_AUTOCLOBBER as soon as I heard of it :)
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# [19:32] <eeejay> jmaher, yo!
# [19:33] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/11bd7d1bbe0d - Sriram Ramasubramanian - Bug 857342: Don't animate the tab counter if the BrowserToolbar isn't visible. [r=mfinkle]
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# [19:33] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/acd66f626f5e - Sriram Ramasubramanian - Bug 853820: Doorhanger buttons are of different size. [r=mfinkle]
# [19:33] <Mossop> gps: Why do I get the error "[Error 2] The system cannot find the file specified" when I try to build now?
# [19:33] <jmaher> eeejay: howdy
# [19:33] <gps> Mossop: pastebin output please!
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# [19:33] <eeejay> jmaher, i don't know if you are the authority for this, but i have a question about bug 783513
# [19:34] <Mossop> gps: http://www.pastebin.mozilla.org/2270717
# [19:34] <jmaher> eeejay: I have no authority, but I can look at the bug
# [19:34] <eeejay> jmaher, i am introducing a new ipc content test, and i see a similar orange which is probably an OOM in android
# [19:34] <jmaher> eeejay: interesting
# [19:34] <eeejay> jmaher, https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Try&rev=c2ebe6a365da
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# [19:35] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/9dc4053ff155 - Sriram Ramasubramanian - Bug 857120: Revert awesomebar overdraw to save action-bar. [r=mfinkle]
# [19:35] <gps> Mossop: is this with mach?
# [19:35] <jmaher> eeejay: I recall the ipc stuff doesn't work on android
# [19:35] <eeejay> jmaher, and i was wondering if i could get your approval of blacklisting the test in android
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# [19:35] <Mossop> gps: Nope
# [19:35] <gps> Mossop: which branch?
# [19:35] <jmaher> eeejay: yes, as long as you put some general comment in testing/mochitest/android.json to indicate a cause/symptom and a bug
# [19:35] <jmaher> eeejay: thanks for checking- glad to see more cool tests landing on the tree
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# [19:36] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/ad1a3999aa2e - matekm - Bug 784739 - Switch from NULL to nullptr in content/; r=ehsan
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# [19:36] <Mossop> gps: Inbound
# [19:36] <RyanVM> NeilAway: seriously, please file it
# [19:36] <eeejay> jmaher, awesome. and general input: it would be cool if there was a standard harness for doing oop content tests
# [19:37] <eeejay> some sort of SpecialPowers voodoo
# [19:37] <gps> mbrubeck: ^ see Mossop's error
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# [19:38] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/d428a8ddbdce - Daniel Glazman - Bug 857487 - Fix deleting a table row using the inline table editing UI; r=ehsan
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# [19:38] <khuey> damn it
# [19:38] <gps> Mossop: try backout out https://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/4a6fd35a9a53
# [19:38] <khuey> warnings as errors is the worst thing ever
# [19:39] <Waldo> s/worst/best/
# [19:39] <Waldo> write better code!
# [19:39] <khuey> Waldo--
# [19:39] <jmaher> eeejay: hmm, we have a run for mochitest-plugins...not sure if there is something you would like to see in specialpowers?
# [19:39] <bz> Waldo: except for compilers being dumb
# [19:39] <bz> waldo: and headers you didn't write
# [19:39] <khuey> and compilers being different ...
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# [19:39] <bz> waldo: and the ser of warnings being DIFFERENT ON EVERY COMPILER
# [19:39] * eeejay looks mochitest-plugins
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# [19:39] <Mossop> gps: Didn't help
# [19:39] <Mossop> I guess I should bisect
# [19:39] <Ms2ger> eeejay, -ipcplugins
# [19:40] <bz> waldo: and there being no sane way to locally check whether your code will work
# [19:40] <eeejay> ah
# [19:40] <@ehsan> khuey: please file a bug if this is a warning that only gets triggered in either gcc or clang
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# [19:40] <@ehsan> I fixed the -Wsign-compare footgun a while ago
# [19:40] <bz> waldo: and people not wanting you to "waste try resources" building every patch on all platforms...
# [19:40] <khuey> 15 ifndef _MSC_VER
# [19:40] <khuey> 16 FAIL_ON_WARNINGS = 1
# [19:40] <khuey> 17 endif # !_MSC_VER
# [19:40] * khuey sighs
# [19:40] <gps> Mossop: my next guess would be https://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/6bcb665562b0
# [19:40] <Waldo> khuey, bz: go back to ignoring me, please, I didn't mean to distract quite so much saying that :-)
# [19:40] <khuey> that basically says you can't change content/src/html/content on windows
# [19:40] <gps> although the damage might already be done
# [19:40] <eeejay> jmaher, seems like oop content is getting trendy (b2g) for more than just plugins. i'll look at that though
# [19:40] <bz> waldo: sorry, sore spot.
# [19:40] <eeejay> and open a bug, blah blah
# [19:40] <gps> rm -rf <objdir>/_virtualenv and re-run configure
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# [19:40] <bz> waldo: e.g. I can't even turn it on locally because I hit fatal warnings that don't show up on tbox....
# [19:41] <Waldo> bz: don't you push stuff to try with all/build-only? I do all the time
# [19:41] <jmaher> eeejay: cool, would be good to figure something out
# [19:41] <Waldo> bz: what compiler?
# [19:41] <Mossop> gps: It's been line this for a day or two fwiuw
# [19:41] <Ms2ger> That "don't waste resources" is nonsense anyway
# [19:41] <Waldo> "use resources judiciously", says I
# [19:41] <gps> Mossop: weird. I dunno
# [19:42] <bz> Waldo: clang
# [19:42] <Waldo> building everywhere is totally reasonable; running tests everywhere is what's somewhat more often going to be less reasonable
# [19:42] <bz> Waldo: no
# [19:42] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/c4cec4613cac - Kyle Huey - Followup to bug 855804: Remove ridiculous WARNINGS_AS_ERRORS junk. r=me
# [19:42] <bz> Waldo: most things I don't push to try at all
# [19:42] <Waldo> bz: well, neither do I
# [19:42] <gps> Mossop: it looks like a current working directory issue
# [19:42] <bz> waldo: other things I push to try with build+test on one platform, whichever one is least loaded
# [19:42] <RyanVM> khuey: nice soapboxing there
# [19:42] <bz> waldo: Some things I worry about and push with build-all/test-all
# [19:42] <gps> Mossop: your source tree is c:\mozilla\source\trunk\?
# [19:42] <Mossop> yes
# [19:43] <bz> waldo: compiler is clang
# [19:43] <bz> waldo: but with ccache
# [19:43] <gps> maybe it doesn't like the space in the path where python.exe is
# [19:43] <bz> waldo: and without the "oh, make it slower by doing all the work twice" flag
# [19:43] <Waldo> hmm, ccache is a sore spot for that
# [19:43] <bz> waldo: which sort of helped, last I tried, but not completely
# [19:43] <RyanVM> gps: nice spelling on the m-c push
# [19:43] <froydnj> khuey: nice
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# [19:43] <Mossop> Oooh that might be it, I installed a virtual env over the weekend
# [19:43] <Waldo> khuey--
# [19:44] <gps> RyanVM: ?
# [19:44] <khuey> Waldo: :-P
# [19:44] <RyanVM> gps: DONTBUID
# [19:44] <gps> oops
# [19:44] <khuey> Waldo: when someone cares to treat MSVC as a first class platform for this they can put it back
# [19:45] <gps> another 150 hours of builder time wasted. *sigh*
# [19:45] <Waldo> khuey: I think we both successfully trolled each other
# [19:45] <philor> oh, 9 pushes where we aren't going to get any builds and thus aren't going to get any tests? I better save resources by closing the tree for several hours while we wait for the one set of tests that covers all 9
# [19:45] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/0d688b7c4411 - Ryan VanderMeulen - Merge m-c to inbound.
# [19:45] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/f20b0ce9e528 - Timur Timirkhanov - Bug 843492 - Bootstrapping fails using Python 3x due to urllib2; r=gps
# [19:45] <gps> make that 300
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# [19:46] <khuey> I can't tell if philor is serious or not
# [19:46] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/56c37ce3f358 - Steve Workman - Bug 808402 - Make call to nsIPrompt::Alert from nsFtpState::StopProcessing async r=jduell
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# [19:46] <philor> khuey: no more than 70% serious, plus it's RyanVM's tree at this time of the day
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# [19:48] <RyanVM> khuey: so you have time to kill a couple lines from a makefile, but not enough to kill an unused define?
# [19:48] <khuey> RyanVM: ?
# [19:48] <jcranmer> bz: the if ((a == b)) warning ?
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# [19:48] <khuey> RyanVM: killing those lines makes the tree not red anymore ....
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# [19:49] <RyanVM> so does fixing the warning
# [19:49] <khuey> well it would fix that warning
# [19:49] <khuey> who knows what other warnings I introduced
# [19:49] <Ms2ger> Try would have told you
# [19:49] <khuey> since we don't care to check on the platform I develop on
# [19:49] <jcranmer> our warnings-on-error infrastructure is broken
# [19:49] <Mossop> gps: Yeah that was it
# [19:50] <Ms2ger> jcranmer, do tell
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# [19:50] <jcranmer> what, the tend minutes of complaining here isn't enough?
# [19:50] <bz> jcranmer: yes, mostly
# [19:51] <jcranmer> bz: arguably, clang should kill that warning
# [19:51] <jcranmer> it's very fragile
# [19:51] <bz> jcranmer: no argument here
# [19:51] <jcranmer> Ms2ger: basically, warnings-on-error should be enabled depending on toolchain, not whether or not you're on the releng builds
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# [19:52] * froydnj 's current "favorite" clang warning is -Wunused-private-field when it only triggers in opt builds
# [19:52] <Ms2ger> jcranmer, what's the difference? You still get buildbots + epsilon devs using it
# [19:52] <jcranmer> froydnj: that's what mozilla::DebugOnly is for
# [19:52] <jcranmer> Ms2ger: the main complaint to enabling it by default is
# [19:53] <jcranmer> "I install a new compiler, now I can't build"
# [19:53] <jcranmer> the fix for that is not "don't enable it unless asked"
# [19:53] <froydnj> jcranmer: indeed. but it doesn't happen to work in this particular case
# [19:53] <jcranmer> but "enable it unless we think it won't work"
# [19:53] <RyanVM> khuey: nice to see that you get to make the decision to back out a change that's been there for over a year without consulting with the patch author (mounier) or reviewer (bz) first
# [19:53] <RyanVM> khuey: rather than just fixing what you introduced
# [19:54] <jcranmer> ooh, ooh, I know, I know!
# [19:54] <khuey> if mounir and bz have a problem with that they know where to find me
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# [19:55] <tbsaunde> jcranmer: sure, but we can only assume it works for the same major rev, and I doubt any body uses gcc 4.5 locally anymore
# [19:55] <RyanVM> khuey: how is this a change that shouldn't get review first?
# [19:55] <jcranmer> let's talk for several hours about flagrant abuse of commit privileges by piggybacking this change on a bustage fix!
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# [19:55] <bz> khuey: hmm?
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# [19:55] <khuey> bz: I removed a WARNINGS_AS_ERRORS annotation that you r+d
# [19:56] <tbsaunde> khuey+ btw
# [19:56] <bz> r=me on khuey's change, fwiw
# [19:56] <jcranmer> tbsaunde: enable it for all platforms that it should work on, i.e. gcc < 4.7
# [19:56] <tbsaunde> err khuey++
# [19:56] <khuey> bz: without review
# [19:56] <froydnj> jcranmer: e.g.: SSLServerCertVerification.cpp:291:127: error: cannot pass objects of non-trivially-copyable type 'class mozilla::DebugOnly<void const* const>' through '...'
# [19:56] <bz> That said, what's the new warning?
# [19:56] <khuey> bz: if you would like to file a bug to have my commit access disabled for that feel free, I won't object
# [19:56] <mbrubeck> gps, Mossop: Looking... did you figure anything out?
# [19:56] <jcranmer> froydnj: sounds like a bug in DebugOnly
# [19:56] <khuey> bz: unused function
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# [19:56] <khuey> bz: I filed 857417 and posted a patch
# [19:56] <Mossop> mbrubeck: Yes, our build system doesn't like it if your python is in a path containing spaces
# [19:57] <khuey> mounir: ^ that applies for you too
# [19:57] <mbrubeck> Mossop: ah, got it
# [19:57] <khuey> mounir: I'm sure you'd love to have my commit access disabled ;-)
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# [19:57] <bz> khuey: what's the real bug# of the bug you filed? ;)
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# [19:57] <khuey> bz: er
# [19:57] <khuey> bz: 857669
# [19:57] <khuey> bz: that's what I get for misreading the request queue
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# [19:58] <froydnj> jcranmer: I dunno, I think it might actually be DTRT. maybe I can file a bug though and see what Waldo thinks
# [19:58] <RyanVM> khuey: why not re-enable WARNINGS_AS_ERRORS while you're at it?
# [19:59] <bz> khuey: want to reintroduce the warnings-as-errors as you fix the warning?
# [19:59] <bz> khuey: Much as I might dislike it, some people really do care....
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# [19:59] <mounir> WARNINGS_AS_ERRORS is disabled now?
# [19:59] <khuey> mounir: in content/html/content/src, yes
# [19:59] <tbsaunde> RyanVM: why is it urgent that a unused function gets fixed immediately instead of in a few days when someone sees the warning?
# [19:59] <mounir> khuey: why?
# [20:00] <khuey> mounir: because it burned the tree
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# [20:00] <mounir> khuey: no
# [20:00] <Waldo> froydnj, jcranmer: the complaint is DebugOnly in private fields that are unused, except in debug, triggers the clang private-field warning?
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# [20:00] <mounir> because someone landed something that was producing a warning
# [20:00] <RyanVM> tbsaunde: clearly you're more optimistic about it being noticed/fixed in a timely manner than I am
# [20:00] <khuey> that's not how I see the causality here :-P
# [20:00] <mounir> removing WARNINGS_AS_ERRORS is the opposite of what had to be done :-/
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# [20:01] <tbsaunde> RyanVM: no, it might well not get fixed for a while but its not very important so I don't really care
# [20:01] <Waldo> warnings are like broken windows; if you let them pop up, they pop up more, and eventually you don't even notice when you make a mistake the compiler warns about, because of the other spam
# [20:01] <mounir> khuey: :-/
# [20:01] <mounir> khuey--
# [20:01] <jcranmer> what we really need is an automated service that counts the warning for each build
# [20:01] <jcranmer> and when someone increases the warning count
# [20:01] <jcranmer> we flood their inbox with spam
# [20:01] <froydnj> Waldo: no, the complaint is that if you pass a DebugOnly thing to a varargs function, the compiler complains about *that* (in debug builds)
# [20:01] <RyanVM> jcranmer: yes, if only our build tools gave us a warning count after building...
# [20:01] <RyanVM> gps: could you get on that please? :)
# [20:01] <Waldo> froydnj: ah
# [20:02] <avih> vlad: ping
# [20:02] <Waldo> let's see, can we fix that
# [20:02] <Ms2ger> RyanVM, you realize mach does that?
# [20:02] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/f41de6d5394f - Terrence Cole - Bug 850842 - Make the watchpoint map safe for moving GC; r=billm
# [20:02] <dholbert> sarcasm is the best
# [20:02] <RyanVM> Ms2ger: REALLY?!?!?!
# [20:02] <RyanVM> I had NO clue
# [20:02] <Ms2ger> RyanVM, it's because you're usually such a nice guy, that threw me off :)
# [20:03] <RyanVM> hey, philor's away ATM
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# [20:03] <RyanVM> someone's got to step in
# [20:03] <gps> mach warnings-list FTW
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# [20:04] <Waldo> so, you'd have to remove ~DebugOnly() {} to get rid of that, at least
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# [20:04] <Waldo> RyanVM++
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# [20:05] <Waldo> and you'd have to remove all the constructors as well
# [20:05] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/483d3d9f852f - Armen Zambrano Gasparnian - Bug 852253 - SUT tests failing for b2g pandas. Take Negatus change. r=aki
# [20:05] <Waldo> froydnj: ^
# [20:05] <Waldo> froydnj: honestly I think the solution is to stop using varargs in those places; varargs is just a bad idea
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# [20:06] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/6409016cc3d5 - Geoff Brown - Bug 857139 - Re-enable testSystemPages code disabled in bug 852489; r=jmaher
# [20:06] <froydnj> Waldo: I await your non-varargs PR_Log with baited breath ;)
# [20:06] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/460e5359bf20 - Jonathan Kew - bug 818940 - use higher-res graphics for about:home at 150% or higher scale factor. r=fyan
# [20:06] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/997b1d4d3122 - Jonathan Kew - bug 818940 pt 2 - also use high-res search engine logo on about:home. r=fyan
# [20:06] <froydnj> I know, iostreams!
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# [20:06] <Waldo> arguably there should be a logging facility in mfbt
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# [20:07] <vlad> avih: pong
# [20:07] <Waldo> top men are working on it
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# [20:07] <vlad> avih: well, pong-ish, in a meeting
# [20:07] <Waldo> top. men.
# [20:07] <jcranmer> froydnj: #define FORCE_PR_LOG before any headers?
# [20:07] <avih> vlad: ping me when you're done?
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# [20:07] <jcranmer> now it's no longer debugonly
# [20:07] <avih> vlad: (wanna discuss how/who should push vsync)
# [20:07] <vlad> avih: best to do the discussion async
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# [20:07] <vlad> avih: so I don't mind taking the current patch, but I really don't like it
# [20:07] <avih> vlad: async to what?
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# [20:08] <vlad> it's not really a fix, it just makes us suck less
# [20:08] <froydnj> jcranmer: heh, maybe. I'd hate to have a define like that required for warning-free compiles, though
# [20:08] <vlad> async to actually setting up a time to talk :)
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# [20:08] <jcranmer> froydnj: well, it also gets you logging in release builds
# [20:08] <vlad> because i'm in meetings until 5pm today :/
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# [20:08] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/7b662fc4a237 - Dão Gottwald - Bug 850163 - use mozRequestAnimationFrame to start the tab opening animation asynchronously but without missing the next possible frame. r=ttaubert
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# [20:08] <vlad> avih: can I talk you into trying the WaitForVBlank-on-thread approach?
# [20:08] <avih> vlad: oh, i'm not concerned with this patch. i agree it's not the best approach. but was wondering who own it
# [20:08] <jcranmer> froydnj: which, if the log is actually useful for debugging, is arguably useful by itself
# [20:08] <seth> grumble. why does everything weird happen on Windows XP?
# [20:08] <vlad> avih: well, you've been doing a pile of good work on vsync in general
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# [20:08] <vlad> I would suggest that you're a perfect owner for it :)
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# [20:09] <avih> vlad: i would have loved it, but if i'm taking this, i'm gonna start having stuff fall off my hands
# [20:09] <KWierso|Home> seth: just build a time machine to take you one year and five days into the future!
# [20:09] <jcranmer> seth: because Windows XP is the oldest operating system still in active use?
# [20:09] <froydnj> having a logging facility whose log calls didn't magically disappear after preprocessing would be awfully nice
# [20:09] <jcranmer> active widespread *
# [20:09] <avih> vlad: thanks :)
# [20:09] <seth> jcranmer: no excuse! =p
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# [20:09] <reuben> is there a way to conditionally add a contract ID to a category?
# [20:09] <vlad> avih: that might be ok; what other stuff are you currently on?
# [20:09] <reuben> hopefully based on a pref and not a compile time constant
# [20:09] <vlad> and I can see what taras thinks too
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# [20:10] <bz> reuben: um... "sure"?
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# [20:10] <bz> reuben: nsICategoryManager
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# [20:10] <bz> reuben: just don't add it with aPersist == true
# [20:10] <avih> talos review, some tiled gradients/images which i might wanna push, tab animation, newtab page rendering speed (some of those i mostly look after)
# [20:10] <avih> vlad: ^
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# [20:11] <bz> reuben: and then add it or not as desired on every startup?
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# [20:11] <vlad> tiled gradient/image stuff seems like you should push off to someone on gfx, if it's what I think it is
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# [20:11] <reuben> bz: hm, currently we're using category JavaScript-global-constructor| on the manifest,
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# [20:11] <reuben> bz: do you know of any code that does that?
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# [20:12] <avih> vlad: possibly.
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# [20:12] <Ms2ger> Any ircops around who want to whack MattN with something?
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# [20:12] <avih> also, some regressions of the timer filter removal i should be looking into
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# [20:14] <jcranmer> Waldo: the real problem with designing logging APIs is everyone wants their own feature sets
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# [20:14] <tbsaunde> froydnj: how would you handle not having extra code in opt builds?
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# [20:14] <bz> reuben: code that does what?
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# [20:14] <seth> froydnj: never heard of that. got a link?
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# [20:15] <bz> reuben: conditionally adds to the global-constructor category?
# [20:15] <reuben> bz: rather, do you know if |category JavaScript-global-constructor| on the manifest translates to aPersist == true
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# [20:15] <@gavin> Ms2ger: just close your eyes
# [20:15] <bz> reuben: no idea
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# [20:15] <bz> gavin: ^
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# [20:16] * khuey sets mode: +b MattN!*@*
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# [20:16] <froydnj> seth: I only learned about it through: http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/pipermail/cfe-commits/Week-of-Mon-20130401/077335.html
# [20:16] <froydnj> tbsaunde: for which? logging?
# [20:17] <seth> froydnj: heh, interesting. thanks
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# [20:17] <reed> Ms2ger: what did MattN do? :)
# [20:17] <bz> reuben: an interesting idea would be to add the pref to the manifest and just change whatever code does the registration from the manifest....
# [20:17] <reed> ah, his client
# [20:17] * khuey sets mode: -b MattN!*@*
# [20:18] <Ms2ger> reed, yeah :/
# [20:18] <tbsaunde> froydnj: yeah, logging
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# [20:19] <froydnj> tbsaunde: if you did it iostreams-style, then operator<< would just be defined inline to nothing on opt builds, appropriately out-of-line on debug builds (I think)
# [20:19] <froydnj> tbsaunde: I think you could do the same thing with a printf-style interface
# [20:20] * whimboo|afk is now known as whimboo
# [20:20] <tbsaunde> froydnj: yeah, I guess trusting the compiler there isn't too bad
# [20:21] <Waldo> jcranmer: that may be true; I have pretty much no knowledge of what people look for in logging APIs
# [20:22] * juanb|afk is now known as juanb
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# [20:22] <jcranmer> Waldo: I'll admit, I mostly like PR_LOG's usability from a user perspective
# [20:23] <jcranmer> except for one major change I'd want (make logging runtime-configurable, not only startup-configurable)
# [20:23] <NeilAway> RyanVM: sorry, was eating... who's luke?
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# [20:24] <jcranmer> Waldo: I don't think mfbt's a good place for logging; xpcom would arguably be better
# [20:24] <Waldo> I have pretty much no opinions on this matter :-)
# [20:24] <Waldo> worth noting that WebKit's mfbt-equivalent has logging stuff in it, tho
# [20:24] <jcranmer> is WebKet's mfbt-equivalent really mfbt-equivalent or is it xpcom/nspr-equivalent?
# [20:25] <bz> how can I copy stuff out of cleopatra profiles?
# [20:25] <BenWa> bz: Like a stack?
# [20:26] <Ms2ger> jcranmer, I suspect unified logging between js and gecko might actually be useful
# [20:26] <bz> like part of a stack
# [20:26] <avih> vlad: i'll take it. and gonna need a lot of help with it probably.
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# [20:26] <Waldo> jcranmer: nobody's got an XPCOM-equivalent, because they're smarter than that ;-)
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# [20:26] <Ms2ger> Waldo, zing
# [20:26] <Waldo> jcranmer: I believe they do put NSPR-like stuff in their, tho
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# [20:27] <Waldo> jcranmer: I think we should incrementally do the same, as NSPR's interfaces and their usability and cleanness is...um, yeah
# [20:27] <Waldo> it's a low-priority thing, tho
# [20:27] <luisbg> sfink, ping
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# [20:28] <sfink> luisbg: pong
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# [20:28] <bz> BenWa: any way to do it?
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# [20:28] <luisbg> sfink, in your mozconfig... do you set the -jN (number of compile threads) to be the maximum in the distcc client, or in both client + servers?
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# [20:29] <NeilAway> jcranmer: heh
# [20:29] <tbsaunde> Waldo: that's not really far, 70% of xpcom/ or so isn't really xpcom its just random useful generic crap
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# [20:29] <jcranmer> Waldo: I've viewed MFBT as more of an abstract datatype repository than a platform-indpendency layer
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# [20:29] <gregglind> for anchored panels, I am observing that sizeTo width seems... odd
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# [20:29] <sfink> luisbg: client + servers, except I don't actually do the math
# [20:29] <Waldo> jcranmer: it's a floor wax *and* a dessert topping!
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# [20:29] <luisbg> sfink, cool! thanks
# [20:29] <gregglind> and the size of the panel seems to depend on the width of the browser. where in code is all this being handled?
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# [20:30] <Ms2ger> Waldo, which reminds me, I have pie
# [20:30] * Ms2ger gets some
# [20:30] <sfink> luisbg: I set it to a really high number -- -j20, I think -- and then set limits in ~/.distcc/hosts
# [20:30] <sfink> eg when running from home, my .distcc/hosts is "192.168.1.99/7 localhost/4"
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# [20:30] <luisbg> sfink, can you paste me your hosts file somewhere?
# [20:30] <luisbg> ahhh ok
# [20:30] <luisbg> the /N is for number of threads
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# [20:30] <luisbg> didn't knew
# [20:30] <sfink> yeah, it's handy
# [20:31] <sfink> now I'm trying to remember why I put localhost 2nd in my home configuration
# [20:31] <sfink> given the networking troubles, that seems like maybe not such a good idea
# [20:31] <luisbg> heh
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# [20:32] <luisbg> how many cores in your home build server?
# [20:32] <sfink> luisbg: note that I've never actually checked whether my strategy is actually working well
# [20:32] <@gavin> khuey: when someone files a "my access isn't working" bug, you should change the component rather than just re-assigning
# [20:32] <@gavin> jdm: ^
# [20:32] <luisbg> sfink, I'm testing to see how much I gain
# [20:32] <luisbg> gavin, o/
# [20:32] <@gavin> khuey, jdm: that way the "access requests" buglist is kept clean of non-access requests
# [20:32] <sfink> luisbg: 2, hyperthreaded to 4
# [20:32] <jdm> gavin: change to server operations, you mean?
# [20:32] <jdm> that makes sense
# [20:32] <@gavin> jdm: yeah
# [20:33] <@khuey> gavin: oh move it out of Repo Account Requests
# [20:33] <@khuey> ?
# [20:33] <@gavin> yeah
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# [20:33] <luisbg> sfink, thanks :)
# [20:33] <sfink> luisbg: er, no. Actually, only 2, with no hyperthreading
# [20:33] <luisbg> sfink, will let you know how it goes
# [20:33] <@khuey> gavin: ok
# [20:33] <sfink> luisbg: so that 7 seems pretty optimistic :)
# [20:33] <@gavin> luisbg: hi
# [20:33] <luisbg> gavin, :)
# [20:34] * bz assumes he's just screwed for stacks from the profiler, retypes it by hand
# [20:34] <bz> <sigh>
# [20:34] <BenWa> bz: Select the leaf node and copy and paste it from the RHS
# [20:34] <bz> BenWa: er...
# [20:35] <bz> BenWa: lemme try
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# [20:35] * bz looks for the leaf node
# [20:35] <BenWa> It's not ideal. Our clipboard API suck/don't exist
# [20:35] <bz> That's ... a long way down
# [20:35] <bz> benwa: well, if this just let normal browser selection work.... ;)
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# [20:35] * BenWa checks if something for clipboard exists now that doesn't use flash
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# [20:36] <RyanVM> NeilAway: :luke
# [20:36] <bz> no, I don't get it
# [20:36] <bz> what do you mean by "from the RHS"?
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# [20:36] <bz> I have leaf node selected
# [20:36] <bz> As in I clicked on it
# [20:36] <bz> but now what?
# [20:36] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/a215de599e7f - Drew Willcoxon - Bug 723163 - Improve about:crashes copy & paste by improving XHTML text/plain encoding. r=hsivonen,njn
# [20:36] <reuben> oh god xpcom/ has no code style consistency :(((
# [20:36] <BenWa> the right hand side pannel says 'Selection - Most time spent in:' which you can copy from
# [20:36] <bz> ah!
# [20:37] <Waldo> reuben: there's fifteen-year-old code in there, so unsurprising
# [20:37] <bz> thanks
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# [20:37] <BenWa> bz: I'll see how useful it is to allow selection
# [20:37] <Ms2ger> Waldo, reuben three-space indentation! \o/
# [20:37] <BenWa> I could spawn flash if the user wants to copy
# [20:37] <reuben> Waldo: there are no excuses for this: https://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/xpcom/components/ManifestParser.cpp#514
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# [20:38] <jcranmer> reuben: automatic whitespace conversion
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# [20:38] <Waldo> I've heard claims that there's some code in Mozilla that uses 1-space, 1-space, 2-space, 3-space, 5-space, 8-space indentation, but I think they're fibbing
# [20:38] <jcranmer> at some point, someone ran a s/\t/ /
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# [20:38] <jcranmer> and... it misconverted a lot of code that wasn't to the same whitespace conventions
# [20:38] <Ms2ger> Waldo, I have not heard that, but will happily spread the rumour
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# [20:39] <jdm> Waldo: *rimshot*
# [20:39] <seth> Waldo++
# [20:39] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/7c0a42b907d6 - Bobby Holley - Bug 843829 - Convert XUL mochitest to a chrome test. r=me
# [20:39] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/5b1b1d6792e0 - Bobby Holley - Bug 843829 - Explicitly add a waiver in FieldGetter and FieldSetter. r=mrbkap
# [20:39] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/e4c0126aa316 - Bobby Holley - Bug 843829 - Apply transitive waivers for nativeCall. r=mrbkap
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# [20:40] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/9c6d2adc18ca - Bobby Holley - Bug 845862 - Transitively apply waivers for accessor descriptors. r=mrbkap
# [20:40] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/dbcbbf02fcbd - Bobby Holley - Bug 843829 - Stop using IsTransparent for XBL field access, and explicitly waive instead. r=mrbkap
# [20:40] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/0f69c8e92e3a - Bobby Holley - Bug 843829 - Fix incorrect test. r=mrbkap
# [20:40] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/984df1da7b15 - Bobby Holley - Bug 843829 - Wrap unwaived content JS objects in opaque wrappers for XBL scopes. r=mrbkap
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# [20:43] <jlebar> There's some new hotness for c++ unit tests, but I can't find the mailing list e-mail. Can anyone point me to some info?
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# [20:44] <@khuey> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/GTest ?
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# [20:44] <@khuey> and http://benoitgirard.wordpress.com/2013/02/25/gtest-has-landed-start-writing-your-unit-tests/
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# [20:45] <jlebar> khuey: thanks!
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# [20:45] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/1be7fafac34f - Benoit Jacob - Bug 843273 - Fix spoofing the driver version on Intel GPUs/Windows - r=joe
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# [20:46] <jlebar> khuey: Hm. So if I want to write a unit test which uses the internal API, do you know if that's the right way to do it?
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# [20:46] <@khuey> jlebar: I don't know that we implemented that part yet ...
# [20:46] <jlebar> khuey: Essentially, I have a header that I want to use nsWeakPtr in, but nsWeakPtr is internal-only, and that header is used in an existing cpp unit test.
# [20:46] <@khuey> BenWa: ^
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# [20:47] <jlebar> khuey: or is there a way to make this work with the old unit test framework?
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# [20:47] <BenWa> jlebar: Use XUL gtest unit test?
# [20:47] <@khuey> ok apparently it is implemented
# [20:48] <BenWa> jlebar: Is this what you want? http://benoitgirard.wordpress.com/2013/02/25/gtest-has-landed-start-writing-your-unit-tests/
# [20:48] <jlebar> BenWa: and it runs automatically on all builds?
# [20:48] <jlebar> on tinderbox
# [20:48] <BenWa> jlebar: Not yet but it's coming *finds bug*
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# [20:48] <jlebar> BenWa: okay, so then that would be a regression for this test.
# [20:49] <BenWa> bug 844852
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# [20:51] <aceman> hi, when do we fix the "non-virtual descriptor" warning with a MOZ_FINAL and when do we convert it to virtual?
# [20:51] <BenWa> jlebar: It was blocked on bug 852950. It shouldn't be hard to run on tinderbox now
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# [20:52] <@khuey> aceman: depends on whether or not the object needs a virtual dtor
# [20:52] <aceman> descriptor=destructor
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# [20:52] <aceman> khuey: how do I find it out?
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# [20:54] <@khuey> aceman: well you need to figure out if hte object can be deleted via pointers to derived classes
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# [20:54] <aceman> khuey: ok, so it doesn't matter if it is empty?
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# [20:55] <seth> when a test is marked random-if(bugXXXXXX), this has no effect except an informational one, i suppose?
# [20:55] <@khuey> nope, the only question is whether the derived class has a ctor that needs to run
# [20:55] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/ecd66e8c854f - Allison Naaktgeboren - Bug 848155 - Add Colored Bar with Text to Bottom of Topsites Thumbnails. Also fixes 826556. r=mbrubeck
# [20:55] <@khuey> if you're deleting through the base class ptr
# [20:56] <aceman> khuey: if it does not have any derived classes then it does not need one
# [20:56] <Shadowized> has anyone ever experienced this copy/paste bug where you Ctrl-C a selection and it doesn't copy to clipboard until u do it twice?
# [20:56] <seth> Shadowized: yes. happens to me all the time
# [20:56] <@khuey> aceman: right
# [20:56] <seth> Shadowized: i started noticing it around the same time i stopped being able to type numbers into textareas =(
# [20:56] <Ms2ger> seth, the bugXXXXXX is defined in the sandbox based on the conditions that cause that bug
# [20:56] <Shadowized> are there any bug reports about it? I havent seen any
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# [20:56] <tbsaunde> aceman: if you have a compiler that has final you cna just makr it as such and see if it builds
# [20:56] <@khuey> yep
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# [20:57] <aceman> khuey: and marking it final is faster than making it virtual just in case?
# [20:57] <seth> Ms2ger: the reason i'm asking is that i'm getting oranges from tests that are marked that way, and i'm trying to figure out if that's expected or not
# [20:57] <Waldo> aceman: yes
# [20:58] <seth> Ms2ger: i'm looking at the bug in question and i only see changes to reftest.list files.. should there have been other changes to make it actually work?
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# [20:59] <Ms2ger> seth, http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/layout/tools/reftest/reftest.js#676
# [20:59] <aceman> khuey: tbsaunde: Waldo: ok, thanks
# [20:59] <seth> Ms2ger: (bug 685516 in case the specifics are useful)
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# [21:00] <seth> Ms2ger: cool, thanks
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# [21:00] <Ms2ger> Np
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# [21:01] <NeilAway> RyanVM: meh, I just cloned the bug that landed the test, so...
# [21:01] <seth> khuey: got a second?
# [21:02] <RyanVM> NeilAway: that works, thanks :)
# [21:02] <NeilAway> RyanVM: btw, what's blue mean?
# [21:02] <NeilAway> RyanVM: (rck2 Remote Device Error: updateApp() call failed - exiting)
# [21:02] <RyanVM> infra issue
# [21:02] <RyanVM> automatically restarted
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# [21:05] <@khuey> seth: sure
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# [21:12] <NeilAway> jfkthame++
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# [21:12] <jfkthame> NeilAway, ?
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# [21:13] <@ted> can I use InsertElementAt on a nsTArray<nsRefPtr<...>> ?
# [21:13] <NeilAway> jfkthame: https://ent.mozilla.org/
# [21:13] <NeilAway> ted: sure, why not?
# [21:13] <@ted> i guess it just doesn't like my T
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# [21:13] <jfkthame> ohhh
# [21:13] <@ted> i guess i need a default constructor
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# [21:14] <NeilAway> ted: nsRefPtr already has a default constructor, no?
# [21:14] <NeilAway> ted: or you should be able to directly insert a T* or already_AddRefed<T> directly, I think
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# [21:15] <@ted> it doesn't seem to like any of this
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# [21:15] <@ted> maybe i'm doing something wrong
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# [21:15] <tbsaunde> ted: eror message?
# [21:16] <@ted> oh, yes
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# [21:16] <tbsaunde> is there a equivalent of nightly.mozilla.org for thunderbird?
# [21:16] <@ted> bluh
# [21:16] * @ted typed nsTArray<Foo> instead of nsTArray<nsRefPtr<Foo> >
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# [21:17] <mounir> RyanVM: btw, checkin+ is better than removing the checkin flag (so it gives an indication of the patch that was checked in)
# [21:18] <RyanVM> mounir: seems redundant when there's only one non-obsolete patch
# [21:18] <RyanVM> otherwise, I'm with you
# [21:19] <mounir> RyanVM: sure, not important but if you take the time to change the value of the flag, + is better than empty string ;)
# [21:19] <mounir> don't care much otherwise
# [21:19] <mjrosenb> mounir: also, fewer keystrokes!
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# [21:20] <firebot> Check-in:
# [21:20] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/75dfc9560fd7 - Mihai Sucan - Bug 831400 - Intermittent devtools/webconsole/test/browser_webconsole_bug_764572_output_open_url.js | Timed out while waiting for: complete to initialize the opening tab;
# [21:20] <firebot> r=vporof
# [21:20] <RyanVM> mounir: mcMerge wipes out checkin-needed automatically, it doesn't do anything with checkin? - so any usage of that is more work for me :P
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# [21:20] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/3bcc3a681fcb - Mihai Sucan - Bug 853568 - Intermittent browser_webconsole_bug_599725_response_headers.js | we do not have the Content-Type header | Content-Length != 60 - Didn't expect 60, but got it;
# [21:20] <firebot> r=vporof
# [21:20] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/818e9a44b2ba - Mihai Sucan - Bug 846606 - Intermittent browser_dbg_bug723069_editor-breakpoints.js | Test timed out | correct number of editor breakpoint changes - Got 3, expected 4; r=vporof
# [21:20] <mjrosenb> is firebot rate limiting itself? I've noticed that there is a noticible delay between each of its lines.
# [21:20] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/1c11f604c369 - Mihai Sucan - Bug 841129 - Intermittent browser_repeated_messages_accuracy.js | two repeats for the second css warning - Got 1, expected 2; r=vporof
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# [21:21] <reuben> mjrosenb: yes
# [21:22] <tbsaunde> jcranmer|away: Callek see my earlier question?
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# [21:22] <Callek> tbsaunde: context? / question?
# [21:23] <tbsaunde> Callek: equivalent of nightly.m.mo for tb
# [21:23] <tbsaunde> Callek: I want someone to try and reproduce in a more recent build than 20
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# [21:24] <Callek> tbsaunde: there *used* to be nightly.mozillamessaging.org I'm looking for something now
# [21:24] <tbsaunde> Callek: thx
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# [21:26] <reuben> bz: hm, so supporting it in the manifest is trivial, but how do we enable it for tests?
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# [21:27] <bz> reuben: tests can set prefs, no?
# [21:27] <reuben> bz: yes but the pref is read once at startup, when parsing the manifest, and then the category isn't added to that component
# [21:28] <Callek> tbsaunde: so I can't find anything atm
# [21:28] <reuben> bz: only setting the pref won't also add the category
# [21:28] <Callek> tbsaunde: I've exhausted my exploratory searching time limit
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# [21:28] <bz> reuben: mmm
# [21:28] <bz> reuben: we _could_ set the pref in the prefs file for the test run
# [21:29] <bz> reuben: but it sounds like the manifest is read before we load the profile?
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# [21:31] <reuben> bz: ah, that's true :|
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# [21:32] <RyanVM> msucan: those are my favorite types of inbound pushes! :)
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# [21:32] <msucan> RyanVM: glad to hear that
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# [21:33] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/5cea17cdb469 - Mark Finkle - Bug 852828 - Add basic support for subscribing to feeds (RSS/Atom) r=margaret
# [21:33] <msucan> it was time to attempt fixing the failures
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# [21:34] <Ms2ger> msucan, wait, I can't tell from those commit messages... You're *introducing* intermittent failures?
# [21:34] <msucan> Ms2ger: spot on :)
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# [21:35] <msucan> RyanVM: my "favorite" is that editor-breakpoints test....
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# [21:35] <reuben> Ms2ger++
# [21:36] <msucan> Ms2ger: i just copy/pasted the bug titles
# [21:36] <Ms2ger> msucan, well, bug summaries generally aren't very good commit messages :)
# [21:36] <JonathanS> if Google is going to drop Google Reader, there is no point to add fusion.google.con
# [21:36] <reuben> that's specifically frowned upon by the commit message guidelines
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# [21:36] <reuben> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Developer_Guide/Committing_Rules_and_Responsibilities#Checkin_comment
# [21:36] <reuben> but fixing intermittent failures is always nice so thanks! :)
# [21:37] <msucan> reuben: that's what i generally did, for all bugs (bug nnn - bug title)
# [21:37] <WeirdAl> eeejay: about text-to-speech: is it designed for synthesizing whole paragraphs at a time?
# [21:37] * WeirdAl is curious
# [21:37] <msucan> reuben: i'll pay attention next time :)
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# [21:37] <reuben> np :)
# [21:37] <msucan> thanks for that link
# [21:37] <Ms2ger> Thanks :)
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# [21:39] <msucan> now let's hope those fixes actually work as intended
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# [21:41] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/17e5b3d4837c - Gavin Sharp - Bug 856144: add nsIBlocklistService to Services.jsm, r=dtownsend
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# [21:43] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/1c3872e0e292 - Ed Morley - Bug 855681 - Try to get stacks from child processes that were alive after shutdown; r=ted
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# [21:49] <philor> RyanVM: why you hate and bust b2g so much?
# [21:49] <RyanVM> philor: payback for all the pain it's caused me
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# [21:50] <tbsaunde> "you break on me so much you know what I'll do to you I'll break you"
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# [21:52] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/2233d7948013 - Ryan VanderMeulen - Backed out 9 changesets (bug 851046) for B2G bustage on a CLOSED TREE.
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# [22:04] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/07d7c9d93b2a - Nikhil Marathe - Bug 856273 - Filter SimplePush registrations() by app manifest URL. r=khuey
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# [22:16] <NeilAway> who knows about the startupcache?
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# [22:18] <tbsaunde> Callek: np, thanks for trying
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# [22:22] <eeejay> WeirdAl, yeah
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# [22:26] <jcranmer|away> tbsaunde: ?
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# [22:30] <tbsaunde> jcranmer|away: was wondering if there is a page to get tbird nightlys or just ftp
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# [22:32] <jcranmer|away> uh
# [22:32] <jcranmer|away> I have no idea
# [22:32] <jcranmer|away> Standard8: ^^ ?
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# [22:32] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/0a3ce751dd8f - Justin Lebar - Bug 857653 - Fix leak in AudioChannelAgent by making it hold a weak ref to nsHTMLMediaElement. r=bz
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# [22:33] <Standard8> tbsaunde: just ftp for nightlies
# [22:34] <tbsaunde> Standard8: jcranmer|away thx
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# [22:36] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/616f9e03bfb2 - Terrence Cole - Bug 850849 - Various fixes to WeakMap to support generational GC; r=billm
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# [22:46] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-beta/rev/b4db16c3fc30 - Bobby Holley - Bug 853709 - Deny accessor definitions in SecurityWrapper. r=mrbkap, a=akeybl
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# [22:48] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-beta/rev/e96d740f3dc9 - Jim Chen - Bug 856755 - Return SpannableString or String in extracted text. r=cpeterson, a=akeybl
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# [22:50] <nemo> hrm. there was a recent bug I was reading on more aggressively penalising greedy background tabs. and I can't seem to find it :-/
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# [22:54] <KWierso|Home> hrm, gmail's favicon changed on me when I updated Nightly... is that the new "prefer larger favicons over smaller ones" thing?
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# [22:58] <dholbert> KWierso|Home, sounds like https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=828508
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# [22:59] <dholbert> that is to say: sounds like an intended-result of that bug's patch, yup
# [23:00] <KWierso|Home> dholbert: thanks. gonna take a while for my eye-memory to get used to a fancier icon :P
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# [23:01] <dholbert> KWierso|Home, just run some GC on your eye-memory to clean out the old stuff
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# [23:01] <jesup> http://techcrunch.com/2013/04/03/apps-vs-mobile-web/ "the large proportion of time spent inside the Facebook app is down to users viewing web content from inside Zuckerberg’s walled garden. He notes: “We can assert that Facebook has become the most adopted browser in terms of consumer time spent”" :-(
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# [23:02] <JonathanS> Jesup, Facebook app still crap
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# [23:04] <robarnold> JonathanS: we do have a mobile site that's not too shabby
# [23:04] <jesup> maybe so (I don't use Facebook (gasp!)), but the point is on mobile devices users are spending as much time in the facebook app as they spend in the browser
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# [23:04] <dholbert> I'm not convinced that's a useful comparison
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# [23:04] <jesup> Now, I'll bet the balance is way different on tablets
# [23:04] <robarnold> jesup: the mobile website for Facebook is surprisingly popular, even on iOS & Android
# [23:04] <dholbert> you could also say "mobile users are spending as much time in the native Gmail app as they spend in the browser"
# [23:05] <dholbert> (if stats supported that, hypothetically)
# [23:05] <jesup> dholbert: true. Mostly I was referring to the comment that users are viewing web content through the app, instead of in a browser
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# [23:05] <dholbert> ah, I missed that aspect
# [23:05] <@dbaron> http://www.chromium.org/blink
# [23:05] <jesup> which of course bypasses us
# [23:05] <@gavin> (http://blog.chromium.org/2013/04/blink-rendering-engine-for-chromium.html)
# [23:06] <@gavin> thankfully they waited a couple of days
# [23:06] <jhammel> muahaha!!!
# [23:06] <@khuey> gavin++
# [23:06] <dholbert> jesup, (so someone A shares a link on FB, one of their friends clicks it, and it opens inside the FB app instead of launching their actual browser app?)
# [23:06] <@dbaron> http://blog.chromium.org/2013/04/blink-rendering-engine-for-chromium.html
# [23:06] <@dbaron> yes
# [23:07] <@gavin> we should migrate to their build system, now that it's 4.5 million lines lighter
# [23:07] <JonathanS> dbaron, Don't Blink. If you blink, you're dead
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# [23:07] <jhammel> next to fork gecko -> marquee ;)
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# [23:07] <dholbert> jhammel++
# [23:08] <jesup> dbaron: for a second I thought someone was bringing back the <blink> tag
# [23:08] <jhammel> jesup: as if it was ever away ;)
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# [23:08] <JonathanS> jesup, Weeping Angel got Google
# [23:08] <jhammel> ooh....i wonder how <blink> works with CSS transitions....
# [23:08] <jesup> jhammel: step away, slowly
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# [23:09] <jesup> dholbert: Dunno, don't use Facebook ;-)
# [23:09] <jhammel> jesup: of course i mean in an SVG document....
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# [23:09] <JonathanS> jhammel, what if next Gecko force uses something from Doctor Who
# [23:09] <JonathanS> i mean fork
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# [23:11] <robarnold> dholbert: on iOS I believe it does (the twitter app does the same; I suspect it's because the app transition is slow) but on Android I think we punt external links to the browser.
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# [23:11] <KWierso|Home> dholbert, jesup: if you click a link to web content from within the fb app, it keeps you in the app, and displays the content in a webview, using (I assume) whatever the platform's default webview provides as a rendering engine
# [23:11] <dholbert> robarnold, gotcha
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# [23:13] <jesup> KWierso|Home: so on Android the webview would be Browser? Or does that get replaced if you select FF as the default for web intents/etc?
# [23:13] <dholbert> KWierso|Home / jesup, my android phone matches what robarnold said (links open in my default browser, which is Nightly)
# [23:13] <jesup> dholbert: ok, good
# [23:13] <jhammel> (likewise, fwiw)
# [23:13] <KWierso|Home> jesup: no clue (I'm one of those freedom hating windows phone users when I'm not using a b2g phone)
# [23:13] <robarnold> jesup: you can't embed FF or any other browser into your app on Android
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# [23:14] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/e4b06af6ce99 - Sam Foster - Bug 812291 - Hook up hide/restore of Top Sites
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# [23:17] <tanvi> smaug: can i have another quick review?
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# [23:17] <@smaug> can't promise fast
# [23:18] <tanvi> smaug: found another test that fails when mixed content is blocked. I updated it with a pushprefenv for the mixed content pref.
# [23:18] <tanvi> smaug: once i push that, i can finally turn the pref on and start blocking mixed active content in nightly!
# [23:18] <RyanVM> tanvi: So, what's plan C? :)
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# [23:19] <tanvi> RyanVM: plan C… see how rearranging the order of the mochitest has helped or hurt. set the timeout back to 5 seconds, because extending it to 10 didn't help, and actually causes more timeouts
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# [23:20] <RyanVM> tanvi: Yeah, I'd say the failure rate hasn't gotten any better so far. Like you said, just a bunch of timeouts thrown into the mix now too.
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# [23:20] <tanvi> RyanVM: for each failure, I have a lot of trouble determining which patches are applied in that specific failure. going up the parent tree can take forever.
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# [23:22] <tanvi> RyanVM: and dates don't always help, for example - the dates in the current inbound list don't make sense: https://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/. we go from april to march back to april
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# [23:22] <jesup> A busy news day in browser engines....
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# [23:22] <RyanVM> tanvi: those dates are the patch creation dates - use pushloghtml
# [23:23] <RyanVM> tanvi: https://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/pushloghtml
# [23:23] <RyanVM> should be much saner to look at :)
# [23:23] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/41887667935b - Allison Naaktgeboren - Bug 857766 - change size of topsites thumbnails.r=jimm
# [23:23] <tanvi> ah thanks RyanVM!
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# [23:23] <RyanVM> tanvi: like I mentioned yesterday, there's a pushlog link at the top of the log linked by tbplbot
# [23:24] <RyanVM> so you can use that to see the push it was on
# [23:24] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/5b710d7fe073 - Patrick McManus - bug 850968 cache effectiveness telemetry - throttle up r=taras
# [23:25] <tanvi> RyanVM - yeah i have been using the push + hash link at the top of the tbpl page
# [23:25] <tanvi> RyanVM: so, for example, i am looking at https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?rev=7c0a42b907d6&tree=Mozilla-Inbound
# [23:26] <tanvi> and i want to know whether all the mochitest changes i have made were applied when that patch was pushed
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# [23:26] <RyanVM> tanvi: the time should be reliable since you know when you pushed
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# [23:26] <tanvi> RyanVM: and it looks liek that is true from https://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/pushloghtml/2
# [23:26] <RyanVM> tanvi: ie bobbyholley@gmail.com – Wed Apr 3 14:42:06 2013
# [23:27] <tanvi> RyanVM: ah okay
# [23:27] <RyanVM> (that's my local time, of course)
# [23:27] <bholley> RyanVM: huh?
# [23:27] <RyanVM> bholley: doesn't concern you, just an example :)
# [23:27] <bholley> ok :-)
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# [23:29] <whimboo> has anyone a suggestion how an error can be propagated to the window.onerror method?
# [23:29] <whimboo> i'm asking because of bug 857765
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# [23:29] <whimboo> where we currently throw away any of those for peer connections
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# [23:32] <tanvi> RyanVM: one thing that the timeout does provide me with is a screenshot
# [23:33] <tanvi> RyanVM: the failures don't provide that
# [23:33] <tanvi> RyanVM: if I could change the sizes of the iframe and decrease the text in the output, the screenshot could help
# [23:33] <tanvi> right now, the text is getting d
# [23:33] <tanvi> *getting truncated
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# [23:33] <tanvi> because the frame is too small
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# [23:34] <bent> mak, ping
# [23:34] <mak> bent: hi
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# [23:35] <bent> mak, hi, so i have a patch to make sqlite default page size controllable via prefs
# [23:35] <bent> mak, which i used for testing
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# [23:35] <bent> mak, would you like that to be checked in? or should i hardcode to the values that i'm picking?
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# [23:37] <bent> mak, see https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ags1U3R4_Vu8dHpqalhLbnVrMVhROFFsYmV1UU41LVE&usp=sharing if you're interested in the numbers
# [23:37] <sfink> wasn't there a |mach configure| command at some point?
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# [23:37] <mak> bent: hum, that sounds like a foot gun... though I want to think about it a bit more... may you attach it?
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# [23:38] <tanvi> RyanVM: what i need is a failure plus a timeout
# [23:38] <gps> sfink: at one point, yes. it was lost along with the |mach build| that featured a build progress indicator
# [23:38] <gps> sfink: you should file a bug for a minimal |mach configure| because it would be a good addition
# [23:39] <sfink> gps: ok. Is there currently any way to build only a subset of the tree using only mach?
# [23:39] <JosiahOne> Google's switching to blink. Does anyone know if this is going to mean new APIs? Got rid of Presto, and now here comes Blink. Or will Chrome still work using Webkit prefixes/apis
# [23:39] <sfink> starting from a fresh checkout, I mean
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# [23:39] <gps> if it's a fresh checkout, building just a subset from the get go would likely not work
# [23:40] <@smaug> do we have documentation about moz.build syntax?
# [23:40] <sfink> ooh, that's an interesting thought. What does Blink mean for Opera? "We just switched to Webkit, and now Google's abandoning it?!"
# [23:40] <bent> mak, now in bug 857376
# [23:40] <@smaug> sfink: Opera switched to chromium
# [23:40] <sfink> oh, ok
# [23:40] <@smaug> sfink: so they probably get now to blink
# [23:41] <JosiahOne> Wow.
# [23:41] <mak> bent: thanks, I'll likely sleep over it and have an answer in the next hours :)
# [23:41] <JosiahOne> If Blink is just a fork of Webkit, then I was wondering if essentially for developers it will work the same, just Apple and Google ( and Opera) will fight over who's is faster, more reliable, etc.
# [23:42] <bent> mak, ok, the alternative is to just hardcode
# [23:42] <@smaug> based on the documentation about Blink, they are moving closer to Gecko model
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# [23:42] <@smaug> JosiahOne: I believe Apple will continue using WebKit
# [23:42] <@smaug> Apple hasn't been using chromium
# [23:42] <JosiahOne> smaug: Yes they will.
# [23:42] <multiplyoctal> JosiahOne: diabolically delicious, isn't it? ;) though i would guess the forks will diverge eventually
# [23:42] <JosiahOne> smaug: Google's switching from Webkit to Blink.
# [23:43] <multiplyoctal> where eventually == sooner than anyone would actually expect
# [23:43] * multiplyoctal is now known as jhammel
# [23:43] <@smaug> JosiahOne: but you should probably ask around freenode #webkit or somewhere :)
# [23:43] <mak> bent: yes, I see
# [23:43] <JosiahOne> And Opera went from Presto to Webkit.
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# [23:43] <whimboo> smaug: hi!
# [23:43] <jhammel> JosiahOne: muahahaha!
# [23:43] <JosiahOne> Now Chrome is leaving webkit… It's all so confusing!!!!
# [23:43] <jhammel> the fog of war...
# [23:43] <@smaug> Opera went to chromium
# [23:43] <@smaug> whimboo: hu
# [23:43] <@smaug> hi even
# [23:44] <@smaug> still no time for any leak hunting
# [23:44] <@smaug> sorry
# [23:44] <whimboo> smaug: :) would you have a minute for a peer connection event handling issue?
# [23:44] <whimboo> smaug: oh, it can wait a bit
# [23:44] <whimboo> smaug: it'shttps://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=857765
# [23:44] <JosiahOne> smaug: Chromium implies Webkit. Chromium just has separate javascript engines and other things. But the main layout engine is the same… I believe.
# [23:44] <whimboo> smaug: how can we propagate the error so window.onerror gets called?
# [23:44] <WeirdAl> eeejay: sweet! that'll go well with WebGL and popcorn
# [23:44] <JosiahOne> Both currently use webkit.
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# [23:46] * JosiahOne Reads some more...
# [23:46] <@smaug> whimboo: no idea about that, other than that PeerConnection should be implemented properly
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# [23:46] <@smaug> and that is the plan
# [23:46] <@smaug> to reimplement it using WebIDL+JS
# [23:46] <@smaug> and make it proper EventTarget
# [23:47] <JosiahOne> Chrome forked Webkit. And worked on it, with differences, but was contributing to the entire project as well? And now will fork their fork, and NOT contribute to Webkit. Is that the summary?
# [23:47] <whimboo> smaug: hm, anyone else you could recommend to ask for a workaround?
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# [23:48] <@roc> what a day
# [23:48] <jamesr> JosiahOne: if you're interested in knowing more about the blink project feel free to join us in freenode #blink. i'd be happy to chat about it (as would many other people)
# [23:49] <JosiahOne> jamesr: Alright, sounds good.
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# [23:50] <@smaug> whimboo: bholley or mrbkap
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# [23:50] <whimboo> smaug: thanks
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# [23:51] <jamesr> roc: i'm waiting eagerly for your blog post :)
# [23:51] <@roc> I'm still flabbergasted :-)
# [23:52] <biesi_> JosiahOne: the webkit of chrome and safari isn't as similar as you might think. http://paulirish.com/2013/webkit-for-developers/
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# [23:53] <JosiahOne> biesi_: Yep, just looked some of that up. So that's why now I'm asking why Google is forking their fork. Seems to me they really just didn't want to be a team player. :)
# [23:53] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
# [23:53] <JonathanS> jamesr, When I see a world about Blink, I am thinking of Weeping Angel
# [23:53] <JonathanS> word
# [23:53] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/eb6993e036ff - Kartikaya Gupta - Bug 857217 - Don't move focus to the layerview if joystick input events are in the dead zones. r=Cwiiis
# [23:53] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/6348af4fe6aa - Kartikaya Gupta - Bug 857217 - Put focus in about:home if it is visible instead of always sending it to the layerview. r=Cwiiis
# [23:53] <@roc> I haven't made up my mind whether it's good for the Web or not. It's probably good for Mozilla I suppose.
# [23:53] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/2a547aac01cd - Kartikaya Gupta - Merge
# [23:53] <biesi_> JosiahOne: I thought http://infrequently.org/2013/04/probably-wrong/ was interesting
# [23:54] <Jesse> sewardj: thanks for commenting about the |volatile| annotations, i was wondering. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=848602#c8
# [23:54] <JosiahOne> biesi_: I'll look at that. Thanks.
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# [23:55] <sewardj> Jesse: np. We shouldn't be sprinkling 'volatile' around like it was magic pixie dust
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# [23:55] <jamesr> roc: i think it'll be interesting to contrast the reactions to this with the reactions to the opera announcement a few weeks ago
# [23:56] <@roc> yeah. Bumping the number of engines back up to 3 to 4 is a good thing.
# [23:56] <biesi_> jamesr: well, hn seems to like it :)
# [23:56] <@roc> although it's really a promise of a gradual increase to 3.something over time
# [23:56] <JonathanS> roc, does this mean Opera is going to use Blink?
# [23:56] <@roc> yes
# [23:56] <qDot> Lord knows we've gotta keep the 19-year-old founder demographic happy.
# [23:56] <Jesse> roc: at what point will we consider 'safari supports it' and 'chrome supports it' to be two independent implementations? or a convincing argument that the feature can be supported by all browsers?
# [23:57] <qDot> JonathanS: They actually said as much in the HN thread, assuming the person that said it is actually an Opera employee
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# [23:57] <@roc> Jesse: it depends on the degree of code sharing
# [23:57] * gkw blinks at Blink
# [23:57] <@roc> and maybe architectural issues
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# [23:58] <@roc> two people might implement a feature independently in Webkit and Blink and converge on some bugs, assumptions or limitations because of the underlying shared code/architecture
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# [23:58] <JonathanS> roc, When I see "Blink", I am thinking this http://thehairpin.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/weepingangles.jpg
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# [23:58] <jamesr> in the long term, we hope to achieve interoperability with the standards process via proposals and tests and whatnot
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# [23:58] <jamesr> same as with gecko and trident
# [23:59] <till> roc: their policies on enabling features and the decision not to use CSS prefixes certainly are good for the web.
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# [23:59] <@roc> yes
# [23:59] <jamesr> we've already had divergences in things like transitions/animations due to differences in the underlying platform APIs (they use CoreAnimation, we don't)
# [23:59] <@roc> jamesr: frankly I would say this is an unmitigated good for the Web except that I fear this means Apple are going to be left behind
# [23:59] <jamesr> in the pretty much completely unspecified corners
# [23:59] <@roc> previously you were dragging them along with you in some areas whether they liked it or not
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# [23:59] <@roc> not so now
# Session Close: Thu Apr 04 00:00:00 2013

The end :)