/irc-logs / mozilla / #developers / 2013-05-26 / end
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- # Session Start: Sun May 26 00:00:01 2013
- # Session Ident: #developers
- # [00:00] <loigrag> Callek & mjh563: Thanks!
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- # [00:09] <philor> Optimizer: some indeterminate period of time after bug 876159 is RESO FIXED
- # [00:09] <Optimizer> I know the dependency .. but when ..
- # [00:09] <Optimizer> usually weekends is the best time to push to try :|
- # [00:09] <philor> which isn't likely to be soon, since releng rarely works weekends even when the weekend isn't a 3 day weekend during which they are travelling home from a workweek
- # [00:10] <Optimizer> can I simply do a CLOSED TREE push ?
- # [00:10] <philor> no
- # [00:10] <Optimizer> then why does it say so ?
- # [00:11] <Optimizer> To push despite the closed tree, include "CLOSED TREE" in your push comment
- # [00:11] <philor> yeah, the "hope you had permission" warning that comes when the hook accepts your CLOSED TREE push comes a little late
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- # [03:18] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/c33931682b68 - Phil Ringnalda - Back out 6115fce2399d (bug 756241 crash test) for making Linux debug crashtest logs exceed the maximum size
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- # [03:21] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/664a3d379c06 - Phil Ringnalda - No bug, no hook, bad hook, CLOSED TREE
- # [03:21] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/44ef87e88dd7 - Phil Ringnalda - Merge m-c to m-i
- # [03:21] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/c33931682b68 - Phil Ringnalda - Back out 6115fce2399d (bug 756241 crash test) for making Linux debug crashtest logs exceed the maximum size
- # [03:22] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/51ed5a22e3c2 - philringnalda@gmail.com - No bug, Automated blocklist update from host slice
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- # [04:26] <markh> so I guess we are waiting for philor's recent inbound push to go green, then be merged to m-c, before try is reopened?
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- # [04:27] <markh> can't we re-open try anyway? There's no guarantee that jobs pushed after it reopens will include the relevant fix, is there?
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- # [04:32] <dumitru> khuey|tw: what wasn't very nice?
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- # [04:55] <philor> markh: no, that was an m-c push, merged to everywhere, but what we're waiting on is the next mozharness patch, the one that will make exceeding the maximum log size instantly fatal (ideally for the pusher, but we'll probably have to settle for just for the run)
- # [04:55] <@khuey|tw> dumitru: kicking everyone out of #desktop
- # [04:56] <markh> philor: ah, ok, thanks. Is it likely to be in the next hour or 2?
- # [04:56] <dumitru> khuey|tw: :D
- # [04:56] <aki> hopefully
- # [04:56] <philor> and yeah, we could open try for pushes with meaningless results, but why don't I just tell you your results and save time? your push was mostly green, except for a few failures that weren't actually available to see in the log
- # [04:56] <dumitru> I had to do it. I blame desktop
- # [04:57] <@khuey|tw> uh huh
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- # [05:00] * philor tries for a more coherent explanation
- # [05:02] <philor> for the last couple of weeks, every single debug Linux crashtest has been green, whether or not a test failed, because every single one has been over the maximum log size and buildbot was calling those green no matter what the result actually was
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- # [05:03] <philor> my backout makes it so that that one suite isn't permanently over the maximum log size, but the current partly-fixed buildbot state means that overflowing the log itself isn't an error, and that in a run with an error and an overflowed log, you won't actually see what the error is, you'll only be told that one existed
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- # [05:05] <philor> so you could push to try, with or without my backout, and cause every suite to overflow the maximum log size and not know it, or cause a failure without affecting log size but not be told what the failure was
- # [05:06] <philor> the only time you need to push with my backout is when buildbut makes overflow fatal, because then if you push without it, you'll have failing Linux debug crashtests whether or not you cause failure in them, with no way of knowing whether or not you cause failure in them
- # [05:06] * mattwoodrow is now known as mattwoodrow|away
- # [05:07] * markh just wants to push a windows only, bc-only run ;)
- # [05:07] <markh> but in general, I admire the problem you are facing!
- # [05:08] <philor> I have absolutely no idea whether or not Windows b-c intermittently and silently overflows and fails to tell you about it, though I know Windows M2 does
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- # [05:11] <aki> patch submitted
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- # [05:19] <philor> mmm, I think maybe Win debug M2 is worse than try made it look, and imptests are going to feel my wrath sooner than I thought
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- # [05:20] <philor> since tip of m-c and tip of m-i both overflowed
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- # [05:42] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/308ecd2dcba2 - Phil Ringnalda - Bug 876159 - Remove warnings that overflow maximum log size in CC-during-OOM cases, r=mccr8 CLOSED TREE
- # [05:42] * mattwoodrow|away is now known as mattwoodrow
- # [05:42] <philor> feel my wrath!
- # [05:43] <philor> look what you made me do!
- # [05:44] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/0fed3377c839 - Phil Ringnalda - Merge m-c to a CLOSED TREE m-i
- # [05:44] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/308ecd2dcba2 - Phil Ringnalda - Bug 876159 - Remove warnings that overflow maximum log size in CC-during-OOM cases, r=mccr8 CLOSED TREE
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- # [05:49] <markh> philor: http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3ukpod/
- # [05:51] <ekr> markh: ok, that's pretty awesome
- # [05:52] <philor> and to cap off the weirdness, because I see unstarred red on mozilla-central, I know that I can reopen, enjoy your open trees
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- # [06:03] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/112091e36b56 - Masatoshi Kimura - Bug 876040 - Replace nsIDOMEvent::GetPreventDefault() with nsIDOMEvent::DefaultPrevented(). r=smaug
- # [06:03] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/e1cb74a38196 - Masatoshi Kimura - Bug 876164 - Remove duplicate classinfo bits from MozCellBroadcastEvent. r=smaug
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- # [06:44] <philor> uh oh, somebody in that merge to m-c broke Win64
- # [06:45] <philor> in Atomics.h, I wonder if jlebar|away might know who broke it
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- # [07:59] <RattyAway> In this example, Schrödinger would like to construct an in-memory database to keep track of the animals in his zoo. Births would of course result in insertions into this database, while deaths would result in deletions. The database is also queried by those interested in the health and welfare of Schrödinger's animals.
- # [07:59] <RattyAway> Schrödinger's Cat and Structured Procrastination: https://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2488549
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- # [08:05] <anptr> whats worong here? http://pastebin.mozilla.org/2445063
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- # [08:55] <Ms2ger> Bonjour
- # [08:57] <philor> that can't be good
- # [08:58] <Ms2ger> aki++
- # [08:59] * philor changes topic to 'Next uplift 24 June || Want to help? See #introduction || http://logbot.glob.com.au/?c=developers'
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- # [09:06] <Ms2ger> Good night
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- # [15:17] <dan> ok, this is my third channel here:
- # [15:17] <dan> hi guys, so I'm trying to add an input provider for w3c touch events to firefox (tuio to w3c touch for firefox to be exact), I've never worked with the firefox code before but I already have mozilla-central and know how to compile it, where do I start?
- # [15:17] <dan> so, has anybody worked with input providers in firefox yet? I just need some generic input provider example for firefox (input -> w3c touch events), and then I could do this
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- # [15:19] <evilpie> dan: maybe bug 604039, the implementation of the Gamepad API would help you?
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- # [15:21] <wg9s-afk> !seen Ms2ger
- # [15:21] <firebot> ms2ger was last seen 52 seconds ago, saying 'Holding on to a JSObject is going to be painful, isn't it...' in #content.
- # [15:22] <Ms2ger> Yessir?
- # [15:22] <wg9s-afk> there you are
- # [15:22] <wg9s-afk> wondersing what is wrong with no tests on any Linux builds for a long time. should trees be closed?
- # [15:22] <dan> evilpie: hmm, looks interesting
- # [15:23] <dan> evilpie: even though I have no idea how to "inject" the touch events into firefox :P
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- # [15:23] <evilpie> oh I assumed you had experience with that and just wanted to hook something from eg the windows side up into firefox
- # [15:23] <dan> at the moment I don't think w3c touch is even compiled into firefox for linux, because there are only input providers for windows
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- # [15:24] <dan> evilpie: I have experience with tuio and C++, and I know how to compile firefox/xulrunner/etc, using mozconfig and the mozilla-central repository, that's about it.
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- # [15:24] <dan> evilpie: I can parse the events, handle devices and everything, I only have problems getting it into firefox
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- # [15:26] <Ms2ger> WG9s, you mean, no tests on Fedora?
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- # [15:27] <Ms2ger> That's fine, they all run on Ubuntu now
- # [15:27] * Ms2ger heads off again
- # [15:27] <dan> lool
- # [15:28] <WG9s> oh cool
- # [15:31] * WG9s wonders why he just noticed this.
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- # [15:35] <evilpie> dan: I think this has the touch code for windows metro https://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/widget/windows/winrt/MetroInput.cpp
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- # [15:36] <capella> heh
- # [15:36] <dan> evilpie: I already found this, but how am I supposed to use that
- # [15:36] <dan> it only compiles on the windows version of firefox anyway
- # [15:36] <evilpie> well you probably need to implement it for your OS
- # [15:37] <dan> yes, but the question is, how do I even add a new input provider
- # [15:37] <evilpie> I guess the same way they were done for metro :)
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- # [15:38] <dan> evilpie: isn't there any documentation about it?
- # [15:39] <dan> grepping for "winnt" and "metro" probably isn't the best solution to find out how it works :P
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- # [15:39] <evilpie> well just by looking at the code for 3 minute it looks like you would register some handler with you OS and then just fire the appropriate events in Gecko
- # [15:40] <evilpie> eg. this fires the event to gecko https://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/widget/windows/winrt/MetroInput.cpp#379
- # [15:40] <evilpie> here they registered that function with metro https://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/widget/windows/winrt/MetroInput.cpp#1765
- # [15:40] <WG9s> dan: metro uses the old fennec/XUL code i believe
- # [15:40] <evilpie> looks very simple honestly
- # [15:40] <dan> WG9s: so?
- # [15:40] <dan> evilpie: then do it :P
- # [15:41] <evilpie> I have no touch enabled desktop
- # [15:41] <dan> evilpie: nah, jk, uhm, I guess I'll just look through the documentation
- # [15:41] <evilpie> And I don't know the API on linux
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- # [15:41] <capella> Dan: https://github.com/mozilla/mozilla-central/blame/master/widget/windows/winrt/MetroInput.cpp shows Jim Mathies does a lot of work there ...
- # [15:41] <capella> !seen jimm
- # [15:41] <firebot> jimm was last seen 1 day, 17 hours, 16 minutes and 6 seconds ago, saying 'I think I'll just query for the service and hope it doesn't hit startup perf.' in #windev.
- # [15:41] <WG9s> well just might not be easily transoprtable
- # [15:41] <evilpie> dan: which OS are you trying to support?
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- # [15:42] <WG9s> a lot of fennec/XUL is also e10s dependent.
- # [15:42] <dan> evilpie: debian/debian based distros
- # [15:42] <dan> WG9s: I'm not sure what that means :P
- # [15:42] <evilpie> can you give me a link to their touch api?
- # [15:42] <dan> evilpie: they don't have a specific touch api
- # [15:43] <evilpie> dan: it means that we use separateprocesses like Chrome
- # [15:43] <dan> evilpie: I'm trying to use http://www.tuio.org/
- # [15:43] <dan> ok
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- # [15:44] <dan> evilpie: so basically, I create a new input provider based off MetroInput, throw out the ms stuff, add the tuio event handling, and get it to compile with firefox
- # [15:44] <evilpie> exactly!
- # [15:44] <dan> sounds pretty simple
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- # [15:45] <evilpie> you just have to find the right place to put it, in the worst case you can hack in some existing file and get feedback from somebody with experience
- # [15:45] <evilpie> looks like that api support multiple cursors?
- # [15:45] <dan> yes
- # [15:45] <dan> that's the point of multitouch
- # [15:45] <dan> lol
- # [15:46] <evilpie> you never said multi touch
- # [15:46] <dan> well w3c touch supports multi touch
- # [15:46] <evilpie> interesting
- # [15:46] <dan> and on windows firefox even works with the html5 multitouch examples
- # [15:46] <evilpie> guess like you could be lucky ;)
- # [15:47] <dan> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/demos/tag/tech:multitouch
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- # [15:47] <dan> but those demos only work on windows
- # [15:47] <dan> there's no provider on linux yet
- # [15:48] <dan> evilpie: ^
- # [15:49] <evilpie> seems like bug 508906 would be interesting
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- # [15:50] <dan> evilpie: argh, that uses the old MozTouch events, which have been partially replaced with the w3c touch events
- # [15:50] <dan> /partially/, that's another problem :P
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- # [15:51] <evilpie> I am really not the right person for this, you should talk to people active in that are like jimm or felpie
- # [15:51] <evilpie> *felipe
- # [15:51] <dan> ok, I will
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- # [15:51] <dan> thanks a lot, evilpie
- # [15:52] <dan> !seen felpie
- # [15:52] <firebot> I've never seen a 'felpie', sorry.
- # [15:52] <dan> !seen felipe
- # [15:52] <firebot> felipe was last seen 1 day, 17 hours, 44 minutes and 7 seconds ago, saying 'evilpie: I'll take a look' in #fx-team.
- # [15:52] <dan> ok
- # [15:52] <dan> I'll wait until tomorrow then
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- # [16:30] <Cork> how does one make the pgo builds not days?
- # [16:30] <Cork> i get "make[2]: *** No rule to make target `pgo-profile-run'. Stop." when i run with the old config for pgo
- # [16:31] <Cork> not==now
- # [16:31] * ericjung is now known as murali
- # [16:32] <tbsaunde> Cork: old config meaning?
- # [16:33] <Cork> mk_add_options MOZ_PGO=1
- # [16:33] <Cork> mk_add_options PROFILE_GEN_SCRIPT='$(PYTHON) @MOZ_OBJDIR@/_profile/pgo/profileserver.py 10'
- # [16:36] <Cork> if i remove mk_add_options MOZ_PGO=1 it runs just fine, except its not pgo optimized
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- # [18:36] <RattyAway> !seen Aryeh
- # [18:36] <firebot> aryeh was last seen 175 weeks, 1 day, 21 hours, 53 minutes and 48 seconds ago,
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- # [18:38] <Ms2ger> Did you mean AryehGregor?
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- # [18:39] <RattyAway> Ms2ger: I think so
- # [18:39] <RattyAway> !seen AryehGregor
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- # [18:39] <firebot> aryehgregor was last seen 1 week, 6 days, 4 hours, 39 minutes and 40 seconds ago, saying 'My try push is stalled on "searching for changes". :( That hasn't happened to me in quite a while.' in #developers.
- # [18:39] <Ms2ger> c-c needs some already_AddRefed changes?
- # [18:40] <Ms2ger> I'll deal with them
- # [18:40] <RattyAway> Ms2ger: the Thunderbird tree is burning, yeah already_AddRefed
- # [18:41] <RattyAway> https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getParsedLog.php?id=23420217&tree=Thunderbird-Trunk#error0
- # [18:41] <RattyAway> ../../../../ldap/xpcom/src/nsLDAPService.cpp: In member function 'already_AddRefed<nsILDAPServer> nsLDAPServiceEntry::GetServer()':
- # [18:41] <RattyAway> ../../../../ldap/xpcom/src/nsLDAPService.cpp:89:12: error: could not convert 'server' from 'nsILDAPServer*' to 'already_AddRefed<nsILDAPServer>'
- # [18:42] <RattyAway> Ms2ger: do you have a bug # I can use to star the tBPL?
- # [18:42] <Ms2ger> Bug 859817
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- # [18:43] <RattyAway> Ta!
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- # [18:49] <Ms2ger> RattyAway, pushed, we'll see if there's any more
- # [18:50] * jcranmer|away is now known as jcranmer
- # [18:51] <RattyAway> Ms2ger: thank you muchly
- # [18:51] <Ms2ger> Np
- # [18:52] <RattyAway> Ms2ger: and on a Sunday too....
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- # [18:54] <philor> that's the advantage of being a heathen
- # [18:54] <Ms2ger> True!
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- # [18:58] <Ms2ger> "Warning: Warning: Using guessed timezone"
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- # [19:10] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/04b17c24ae1a - Phil Ringnalda - Merge m-c to a CLOSED TREE birch
- # [19:10] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/8d04ae0a5776 - Dave Hylands - Bug 875637 - Save default volume name pref with the correct type. r=gwagner
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- # [19:11] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/b5d59d33b3cc - Phil Ringnalda - Merge m-c to a CLOSED TREE birch
- # [19:11] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/82f30e56c1d9 - Ryan VanderMeulen - Merge m-c to birch.
- # [19:11] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/afb016e30eaf - Phil Ringnalda - Merge m-c to birch
- # [19:11] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/15482a8f9d49 - Phil Ringnalda - Merge birch to m-c
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- # [19:13] <Ms2ger> I herd u liek merges
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- # [19:16] <philor> yeah, but only when they are pointless, not actual manual merges
- # [19:16] <philor> /nick Patrick
- # [19:18] * philor puts some more things over there
- # [19:19] <Ms2ger> :D
- # [19:20] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/2b36716b4d27 - Phil Ringnalda - Merge the last PGO-green cset on m-i to m-c
- # [19:21] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/112091e36b56 - Masatoshi Kimura - Bug 876040 - Replace nsIDOMEvent::GetPreventDefault() with nsIDOMEvent::DefaultPrevented(). r=smaug
- # [19:21] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/e1cb74a38196 - Masatoshi Kimura - Bug 876164 - Remove duplicate classinfo bits from MozCellBroadcastEvent. r=smaug
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- # [19:33] <Pike> how do I get nightly to not send an Authorization header? I want it to re-ask for a basic auth, and I can't seem to get it to do that
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- # [19:34] <philor> Pike: History - Clear Recent History - Active Logins, I think
- # [19:35] <tessarakt> Ms2ger: mailnews/import/src/nsImportAddressBooks.cpp
- # [19:35] <tessarakt> https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getParsedLog.php?id=23421224
- # [19:36] <Ms2ger> Yeah
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- # [19:39] <Pike> and hereby it's official, I'm too dumb for basic auth
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- # [19:46] <glosoli> where does Firefox keeps leftovers
- # [19:46] <glosoli> of deleted addons ?
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- # [20:05] <Mossop> glosoli: What do you mean?
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- # [20:05] <glosoli> Ah I just done clean install again.. I have deleted Last Pass before and installing it again I saw that all custom configs
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- # [20:06] <glosoli> were still available which sucks
- # [20:06] <glosoli> :)
- # [20:06] <Mossop> Add-ons store their data in your Firefox profile, most likely in preferences
- # [20:08] <glosoli> ok thanks Mossop :) though probably last pass had itself named in some weird name
- # [20:08] <glosoli> :)
- # [20:11] <tessarakt> Ms2ger: mailnews/base/util/Services.cpp ?
- # [20:11] <Ms2ger> Should be fixed
- # [20:11] <tessarakt> ok
- # [20:12] <tessarakt> just saw a log and thought it might be something different
- # [20:13] <glosoli> hmm strange
- # [20:14] <glosoli> Last time I checked FF was scoring way better at SunSpider
- # [20:17] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/28c185bcc46a - Phil Ringnalda - Bug 876275 - skip a crashtest that times out on B2G on a VM
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- # [20:23] <evilpie> glosoli: we had some hefty regression on SS 1.0 that was noticed because awfy runs 0.9.1. see bug 875720
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- # [20:25] <glosoli> mhm
- # [20:27] <glosoli> evilpie: I am a bit curious
- # [20:27] <glosoli> if the bug is only related to particular situation in SunSpider
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- # [20:33] <Archaeopteryx> Ms2ger: can you give an estimate when the fix for bug 875372 will be ported and ship with v1-train fx-os-builds?
- # [20:34] * evilpie shudders
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- # [20:46] <philor> Archaeopteryx: you're more likely to get an actual answer out of dhylands, since he both caused and patched it, than Ms2ger who just noticed it existed
- # [20:47] <Archaeopteryx> ah, ok, thanks
- # [20:48] <philor> otoh, if one wanted to know when test_Range-surroundContents.html will stop beating its wife, Ms2ger would be a good one to ask
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- # [20:48] <philor> Ms2ger: when will test_Range-surroundContents.html stop beating its wife? I'd really rather not file this bug about it shoving its OOM assertion down into the next test
- # [20:49] <philor> oh, wait, I already know the answer, "July"
- # [20:50] <philor> the question I should have asked was "where do I disable it on Windows?"
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- # [20:52] <fox2mike> who's the sheriff?
- # [20:53] <philor> fox2mike: that'd be me
- # [20:54] <fox2mike> philor: I just got paged about a tbpl DB slave lagging behind
- # [20:54] <fox2mike> philor: just a heads up
- # [20:54] <fox2mike> I'm looking
- # [20:54] <philor> thanks
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- # [20:55] <philor> good time for it, hardly anything's running
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- # [20:58] <efaust> we ought to get philor a star to pin to his shirt when he's on sheriff
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- # [20:58] <fox2mike> philor: cool. it's just a checksum thing, so shouldn't affect TBPL at all :)
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- # [20:59] <fox2mike> philor: but if you see any issues, let me know
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- # [20:59] <philor> will do
- # [20:59] <philor> efaust: http://tragedyseries.tumblr.com/post/9587106642
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- # [21:01] <philor> hmm, http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/dom/imptests/webapps/DOMCore/tests/approved/Makefile.in#32 is a generated do not edit makefile, and http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/dom/imptests/importTestsuite.py lacks any information at all about how to disable a test
- # [21:02] <efaust> philor: "so what exactly did CLOSED TREE mean to you?"
- # [21:02] <philor> I do believe imptests don't actually meet our requirements for visiblity, and the whole painful tiresome constantly failing lot of them need to be thrown in the trash!
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- # [21:03] <philor> efaust: CLOSED TREE is what keeps the riff-raff out, it's like a velvet rope
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- # [21:05] <Ms2ger> Because I haven't implemented anything to disable tests
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- # [21:06] <Ms2ger> philor, just edit the file that says "don't edit this file", I'll deal
- # [21:06] <dzbarsky> philor++
- # [21:11] <Ms2ger> Fallen|away, ping
- # [21:12] * Quits: abwillis (abwillis@moz-29F77E5B.hlrn.qwest.net) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [SeaMonkey 2.7.2/20121224145522])
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- # [21:13] <Fallen|mobile> Ma
- # [21:14] <Fallen|mobile> Ms2ger pongish
- # [21:14] <Ms2ger> Fallen|away, do you know if there's any way to sync an outlook.com calendar into lightning?
- # [21:15] <philor> Ms2ger: any obvious typos in http://www.pastebin.mozilla.org/2447079?
- # [21:15] <Ms2ger> philor, no obvious ones
- # [21:17] <Fallen|mobile> Ms2ger not off the top of my head. If they offer exchange xml web access there is a provider extension, provider for microsoft exchange or similar
- # [21:17] <Fallen|mobile> I'm not at my laptop but I'll take a look tomorrow
- # [21:17] <Ms2ger> Thanks
- # [21:18] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/a81bece350a1 - Phil Ringnalda - Bug 875585 - Disable test_Range-surroundContents.html on Windows until it can manage to be a little less OOM-prone
- # [21:18] <philor> apparently describing an Android test suite as "gloriously green" is tempting the fates, who would have guessed?
- # [21:20] * Quits: thbet (kvirc@moz-FB583285.omega116.maxonline.com.sg) (Connection reset by peer)
- # [21:22] * Ms2ger creates a new hotmail email address
- # [21:22] <Ms2ger> Feels like it's 1996 again
- # [21:23] <glosoli> hotmail isn't it down ?
- # [21:24] <efaust> yahoo mail, man. Gotta go true oldschool.
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- # Session Close: Sun May 26 21:27:01 2013
- #
- # Session Start: Sun May 26 21:27:01 2013
- # Session Ident: #developers
- # [21:27] * Disconnected
- # [21:42] * Attempting to rejoin channel #developers
- # [21:42] * Rejoined channel #developers
- # [21:42] * Topic is 'Next uplift 24 June || Want to help? See #introduction || http://logbot.glob.com.au/?c=developers'
- # [21:42] * Set by philor on Sun May 26 08:59:18
- # [21:42] <JosiahOne> glosoli: You traitor. :)
- # [21:42] <glosoli> I would switch my Gmail to Outlook any time
- # [21:42] <glosoli> :)
- # [21:42] <Ms2ger> I got a gmail beta invite nearly 9 years ago, and I haven't looked back
- # [21:42] <JosiahOne> glosoli: TB is the best client. ;)
- # [21:42] <glosoli> JosiahOne: I refer to Outlook Web App as the client
- # [21:42] <glosoli> :)
- # [21:42] <glosoli> For Mac OS X I use Apple Mail
- # [21:42] <Ms2ger> JosiahOne, agreed, though that says more about the competition than about its quality :)
- # [21:42] <glosoli> :)
- # [21:43] <glosoli> I have tried to get used to Thunderbird several times
- # [21:43] <JosiahOne> glosoli: Apple mail. :(
- # [21:43] <glosoli> Has it got proper conversations already ?
- # [21:43] <JosiahOne> glosoli: What do you mean by that?
- # [21:43] <Ms2ger> It does for newsgroups, I don't like conversations for email much
- # [21:43] <glosoli> JosiahOne: well Apple Mail and many other clients group mail properly
- # [21:43] <glosoli> :)
- # [21:43] <dan> mutt is the best client
- # [21:43] <glosoli> and looks more intuitive if you get a lot of email from same person or groups
- # [21:43] <Ms2ger> On another note
- # [21:43] <dan> mutt-patched actually
- # [21:43] <glosoli> sorta like Skype chats
- # [21:44] <Ms2ger> jif or gif?
- # [21:44] <JosiahOne> glosoli: Well we have a thread view. But it doesn't really group them.
- # [21:44] <Ms2ger> tabs or spaces?
- # [21:44] <Ms2ger> vim or emacs?
- # [21:44] * Ms2ger sits back
- # [21:44] * Quits: saebekassebil (saebekasse@moz-459AA6FA.dk.customer.tdc.net) (Quit: )
- # [21:44] <JosiahOne> emacs.
- # [21:44] <JosiahOne> spaces.
- # [21:44] <dan> Ms2ger: spaces, vim
- # [21:44] <JosiahOne> gif.
- # [21:44] <dan> JosiahOne: no emacs please :(
- # [21:44] <dan> I don't want you to break your fingers
- # [21:44] <glosoli> JosiahOne: I couldn't live without it.. :) there are some things I can ditch to use Firefox for, and that's only because I don't like Google as an idea.
- # [21:45] <capella> eclipse or intelliJ?
- # [21:45] <JosiahOne> dan: At least I can actually write something with emacs. I never figured out vim, though I hear it's nice.
- # [21:45] <glosoli> capella: intellij for me
- # [21:45] <JosiahOne> capella: intelliJ.
- # [21:45] <capella> ++
- # [21:45] <glosoli> Anyway I am very bad that select box bug is taking months to be fixed
- # [21:45] <glosoli> :)
- # [21:45] <dan> JosiahOne: vim is easy, you just need to grasp the concept of the buffer and the modes and that's it
- # [21:45] <glosoli> s/bad/mad
- # [21:45] <dan> JosiahOne: I could introduce you to it within 5 minutes
- # [21:45] <dan> maximum
- # [21:46] <glosoli> And this drives me nuts to think how much Mozilla cares about ux regressions
- # [21:46] * stefanh|away is now known as stefanh
- # [21:46] <JosiahOne> glosol: Oh. That twitter thing?
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- # [21:46] <JosiahOne> twitter-related I should say.
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- # [21:46] <glosoli> JosiahOne: it's not only twitter :)
- # [21:47] <JosiahOne> glosoli: True. But that's the only time I encountered the problem.
- # [21:47] * Quits: tmyoung (Thunderbir@moz-A52EE408.alyoung.com) (Quit: tmyoung)
- # [21:47] <JosiahOne> glosoli: The issue was custom <select> box styling right?
- # [21:47] <glosoli> JosiahOne: yes :) and I have to test stuff like that every day :) also I love to stick with one browser experience, so I need a lot of patience to see <select as input
- # [21:48] <JosiahOne> dan: Sometime maybe you should, though I have never really needed emacs or vim. Xcode works just fine for almost everything.
- # [21:48] <Ms2ger> capella, netbeans :)
- # [21:48] <capella> ms2ger: Hah ... that's good too
- # [21:48] <dan> JosiahOne: jetbrains
- # [21:48] <glosoli> JosiahOne: http://jsfiddle.net/mQxBz/1/
- # [21:48] <dan> JosiahOne: at work I use jetbrains mostly :P
- # [21:48] <glosoli> Any custom change for select item, drives it to be rendered as destroyed
- # [21:48] <dan> JosiahOne: but for C/C++ I still use vim
- # [21:49] <capella> sublime-text-2
- # [21:49] <Ms2ger> capella, though, to be honest, my reaction to java is to run away rather than to pick an editor :)
- # [21:49] <JosiahOne> glosoli: Wow, that it pretty bad.
- # [21:49] <JosiahOne> Ms2ger: ++
- # [21:49] <JosiahOne> dan: But what's really the advantage. Perhaps I'm missing out, but Xcode does everything just fine.
- # [21:49] <tessarakt> I use Eclipse CDT
- # [21:50] <glosoli> JosiahOne: it actually is.... I know that the biggest concern is casual users... But not caring about devs ux also doesn't sound like a nice idea :)
- # [21:50] <JosiahOne> glosoli: I suppose Australis is part of your issue. People are very busy adding things right now.
- # [21:50] <dan> JosiahOne: this is my vim setup: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/yvj0dkahlpmtmab/2013-04-25-135041_1366x768_scrot.png
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- # [21:50] <dan> JosiahOne: vim is very customizable, so is jetbrains
- # [21:50] <dan> jetbrains is expensive though
- # [21:50] <glosoli> JosiahOne: Australis shouldn't be related to this problem, also select box was ugly and looked like windows 95 in Firefox forever
- # [21:51] <JosiahOne> glosoli: Well yeah, I just mean people are absorbed with Australis and not other UX problems right now.
- # [21:51] <JosiahOne> dan: Customizable how? What can you do with it that makes it so handy?
- # [21:51] <dan> JosiahOne: you can do everything with it
- # [21:51] <dan> that's the point
- # [21:51] <dan> lol
- # [21:52] <JosiahOne> dan: But I don't need to do everything, just write some code. :)
- # [21:52] <dan> JosiahOne: but you're right, most coders probably won't need it
- # [21:52] <capella> ms2ger: hmmm ... I've heard a few reasons why not to like java ... (I don't share)... what can you point to?
- # [21:52] <capella> (since the room got lively today) :D
- # [21:52] * Quits: heftig (heftig@moz-AE443C71.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout)
- # [21:52] <JosiahOne> dan: I would be fine with TextEdit honestly. :)
- # [21:52] <dan> JosiahOne: it just feels more comfortable to me, as you can see, my debian is highly customized too
- # [21:52] <glosoli> JosiahOne: will Australis ever come to public... ? I have been here for quite some time, it was said to be released for the 23 series before...
- # [21:52] <dan> this is based off dwm btw
- # [21:52] <Ms2ger> capella, just its habit to be overly long
- # [21:53] <dan> JosiahOne: I really recommend you to check out jetbrains
- # [21:53] <dan> it's awesome
- # [21:53] <capella> Oh ... yah ... that's valid !! :P
- # [21:53] <dan> you can go for the trial
- # [21:53] <JosiahOne> glosoli: 25.
- # [21:53] <JosiahOne> glosoli: Very soon actually.
- # [21:53] <Ms2ger> capella, it's not terrible, I just like trolling it ;)
- # [21:53] <JosiahOne> glosoli: And of course it's on UX right now.
- # [21:53] <glosoli> JosiahOne: so it means I would need to wait 2 releases till I have my select box fixed... ?
- # [21:53] <capella> heh - like me and javascript ms2ger
- # [21:53] <glosoli> just being ironic..
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- # [21:54] <Ms2ger> capella, oh, JavaScript *is* crap, and the DOM is worse
- # [21:54] <JosiahOne> glosoli: :) I don't know. You could always fix it yourself. ;) What's the bug #?
- # [21:54] <Ms2ger> capella, I can say that, I work on it :)
- # [21:54] <capella> Ah ... hehehehe
- # [21:54] <dan> Ms2ger: doesn't stop people from using javascript for everything
- # [21:55] * Quits: Archaeopteryx (itsme@moz-4861A875.cust.telecolumbus.net) (Quit: It has been this message for years.)
- # [21:55] <dan> I mean don't you see the awesomeness in nodejs? </s>
- # [21:55] <glosoli> JosiahOne: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=869314 when I have runt into Stephen Pohl in IRC he reported it as fixed :))) also I would spent more time on trying to learn how to fix it than I can afford, and I doubt that anyone will accept my change as it would be some ugly code.
- # [21:55] <dan> nodejs with spidermonkey would be quite interesting though </mozillafag>
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- # [21:55] <JosiahOne> glosoli: Well someone could edit it. But if you have a base done, that would make it more appealing.
- # [21:56] * Quits: tmyoung (Thunderbir@moz-A52EE408.alyoung.com) (Quit: tmyoung)
- # [21:56] <capella> I need to figure out where the red box gets put around invalid input numeric <input> in my HTML/js one of these days
- # [21:56] <glosoli> JosiahOne: though you missed the part me saying that patch is already out there, just nobody cares to accept it
- # [21:56] <JosiahOne> glosoli: I see that. Just needs check-in. One sec.
- # [21:57] * Ms2ger frowns
- # [21:57] <Ms2ger> Day / Week / Multiweek events have my events
- # [21:57] <Ms2ger> Month doesn't
- # [21:58] <Ms2ger> s/events/views/
- # [21:58] <JosiahOne> glosoli: Commented. The review was just yesterday, so you will need to wait a little bit before landing. But it should be fixed by 24 or 25.
- # [21:59] <JosiahOne> 25 FOR SURE, or else I'm going to throw a fit. :)
- # [21:59] <glosoli> .....
- # [21:59] <JosiahOne> But 24 is very possible.
- # [21:59] <glosoli> I am already running Nightly
- # [21:59] <JosiahOne> glosoli: Yes, but Nightly updates every night. :) So if the patch/es land in 24, then Nightly will update with the change.
- # [22:00] <glosoli> ah doesn't look like I should hope for the change any time soon.
- # [22:00] <JosiahOne> glosoli: It will be available in Nightly in less than a month.
- # [22:00] * Joins: Sho (sho@23F72BD9.C747FC42.2DB0BBA1.IP)
- # [22:00] <glosoli> Is this some sort of government stuff which needs like a month to be checked ?
- # [22:01] <JosiahOne> glosoli: So I guess it depends on your definition of "soon".
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- # [22:01] <Sho> Anyone around who is familiar with the code in toolkit/webapps/WebappsInstaller.jsm?
- # [22:01] <glosoli> JosiahOne: well I would call a month soon if it would be some sort of kernel bug...
- # [22:01] <glosoli> JosiahOne: and the diff aint that big
- # [22:02] <JosiahOne> glosoli: A month is at the very latest. If the patch gets pushed, then some accidental test fails, it might have to be backed out and fixed. Otherwise it should land within a week.
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- # [22:02] <Ms2ger> Sho, that would be Yoric, I guess. Dunno if he's around
- # [22:02] * Yoric isn't.
- # [22:03] <Sho> Ms2ger: Thanks
- # [22:03] <Yoric> But I'm not too familiar with that code.
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- # [22:03] <Sho> Yoric: I'm running into a trivial problem, so frankly anyone with above-zero Mozilla dev experience and any sort of inclinations towards that file can probably help me :)
- # [22:03] <glosoli> JosiahOne: what's what I been told last week :)
- # [22:03] <glosoli> though neither it's been pushed for tests to fail
- # [22:04] <Yoric> :)
- # [22:04] <JosiahOne> glosoli: But it wasn't reviewed then. :)
- # [22:04] <Yoric> Sho: Go ahead, then :)
- # [22:04] <glosoli> JosiahOne: Ok man, that's not the problem, it just drives me nuts, knowing that people don't look at it as if would be a major problem, meanwhile it is.
- # [22:05] <JosiahOne> glosoli: But almost every bug is a major problem for someone. :)
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- # [22:05] <Sho> Yoric: Webapps installation on Linux currently blows up in line 792 of WebappsInstaller.jsm and throws "TypeError: (intermediate value).toLowerCase is not a function" into the error console. I've verified that this seems to indeed be the problem by commenting out the entire loop and hardcoding categories to a particular string, so I'm guessing the problem is that this.apps.categories is in some cases something that is iterable but not an
- # [22:05] <Sho> iterable of strings
- # [22:05] <JosiahOne> glosoli: In fact, being fixed within a month is pretty good actually. spohl has been working like crazy to fix all the scrollbar regressions.
- # [22:06] <Yoric> Sho: weird.
- # [22:06] <glosoli> JosiahOne: I did not intend to say that he was the only one to have some sort of near proper response for me when I asked in irc.
- # [22:06] <Yoric> Sho: Do you have an idea what the intermediate value is?
- # [22:06] <glosoli> Most of the folks out here tend to ignore everybody that's not their concern.
- # [22:07] <Yoric> (i.e. can you print a JSON.stringify of that value, for instance)
- # [22:07] <JosiahOne> glosoli: Well, that's because most people don't watch IRC unless they are pinged. Or, if they don't know the answer, then they won't say anything.
- # [22:07] <Sho> Yoric: Not a clue, I'm a C++ guy with no JS experience, and I've never touched the Mozilla codebase, so I don't even know how to dump good debug info to find out what this.apps.categories is in the failure case :)
- # [22:07] <JosiahOne> glosoli: spohl is assigned to that, so he would be the only one you should ping about the issue.
- # [22:08] <Ms2ger> It would be somewhat crowded here if 300 people replied "I don't know" to every question, wouldn't it?
- # [22:08] <Sho> Yoric: So the situation is that I'm probably technical enough to follow instructions but need handholding and/or pointers to get there ;)
- # [22:08] <glosoli> JosiahOne: but he is not the one who can review and accept the fix :)) ?
- # [22:08] <Yoric> Sho: You could do |dump("Category: " + JSON.stringify(category) + "\n");|
- # [22:09] <Sho> Yoric: sounds good, on it
- # [22:09] <JosiahOne> glosoli: No, but reviewers have a massive pile queue. They can only get to it when they have some time. Reviewers just check the code, they aren't responsible for fixing it.
- # [22:09] <Yoric> Sho: You might need to activate |dump|.
- # [22:09] <Yoric> Sho: in about:config, set preference |browser.dom.window.dump.enabled| to |true|
- # [22:10] <Sho> yep, just found browser.dom.window.dump.enabled on Google
- # [22:10] <Yoric> This will display the results of |dump()| to stderr, iirc.
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- # [22:10] <glosoli> JosiahOne: okay.. that did not convince me, but thanks for taking time :)
- # [22:10] * Joins: jviereck (Adium@moz-340574DC.dclient.hispeed.ch)
- # [22:10] <JosiahOne> glosoli: The review+ was yesterday, today and tomorrow are holidays, so it would be at least Tuesday until spohl gets back. Just be patient, it will land. Some reviews do take awhile, and perhaps we need more reviewers, but that can't be decided rapidly.
- # [22:11] <philor> Ms2ger: I don't know
- # [22:11] <JosiahOne> glosoli: It's annoying, but meant to maintain quality.
- # [22:11] <Sho> on an unrelated note, the "Reticulating splines" in the mach build output made me smile
- # [22:11] * Ms2ger throws a fish at philor
- # [22:12] <capella> I love that thing too !
- # [22:12] <glosoli> JosiahOne: Probably I have a different meaning of word quality
- # [22:12] <JosiahOne> glosoli: Perhaps. I suppose true quality would mean we would never have regressions. But that isn't the reality.
- # [22:12] <capella> (splines not phil or getting hit by a fish)
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- # [22:13] <Sho> Yoric: the plot thickens, "Category: 159"
- # [22:13] <glosoli> JosiahOne: Nah, true quality would mean at least for me, that regression should get more attention as the worst thing that regression do is makes the project to be considered as driven by some weird forces to the past
- # [22:13] <glosoli> :)
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- # [22:13] * ChanServ sets mode: +o smaug
- # [22:13] <Sho> Yoric: Which is definitely not in the marketplace-to-freedesktop.org translation table, all the keys there are string
- # [22:13] <Sho> *strings
- # [22:14] <JosiahOne> glosoli: This issue is only in Aurora+ right?
- # [22:14] <Yoric> Sho: Weird.
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- # [22:15] <glosoli> JosiahOne: I am not sure, I don't like using the stable as it would make me to wait years for the newest stuff to come though, I don't mind casual bugs, as long as they don't screw with my emotions when looking at monitor
- # [22:15] <glosoli> :)
- # [22:15] <Sho> Yoric: If I had to guess I'd say marketplace.firefox.com changed the metadata format for apps to use numeric ids for categories and someone forgot to update the client code ..?
- # [22:15] <glosoli> and UI glitches makes me depressed
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- # [22:15] <Yoric> Sho: Well, that should be easy to check.
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- # [22:15] <Yoric> dump("Categories: " + JSON.stringify(this.app.categories) + "\n");
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- # [22:16] <JosiahOne> glosoli: But perhaps that is the problem here. We have several versions to fix bugs. It's not really the goal to make Nightly a stable branch. It will be fixed by the time it affects users.
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- # [22:16] <glosoli> JosiahOne: isn't Nightly where all the other versions come from :) ?
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- # [22:17] <JosiahOne> glosoli: Yes. But what will happen here is that the two patches on that bug will be landed on Nightly and Aurora, thereby fixing the issue entirely before it hits users.
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- # [22:17] <Sho> Yoric: Categories: [159]
- # [22:17] <Yoric> Ok, then not that easy to check :)
- # [22:18] <glosoli> JosiahOne: so I am not sure what's the meaning of your previous statement of Nightly not being the goal to make it stable. I am not asking for it to be stable, I am just wondering how much good does it do to postponing fixing bugs that are UX centered
- # [22:18] * jcranmer wonders how long before someone backs out the Reticulating splines for being an in-joke
- # [22:18] <Yoric> I'm trying to trace where these categories come from in the source code.
- # [22:18] <Sho> Yoric: Yeah, I wasn't immediately able to find out where the categories attribute comes from either
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- # [22:19] <JosiahOne> glosoli: But it wasn't postponed. It was discovered in Nightly, when the issue was ALREADY in Aurora and Nightly. So, the issue only needs to be fixed before Aurora goes into Beta. Which is not for a few weeks I believe.
- # [22:19] <Sho> Yoric: I guess in parallel I'll have a look at the marketplace developer docs and see if I can find out something about the metadata format there on the authoring side
- # [22:19] <Yoric> Sho: Ok, it seems to be provided by the application itself during the call to installPackage.
- # [22:19] <Sho> Yoric: I've been testing with the Twitter and Wired.com apps fwiw
- # [22:20] <glosoli> JosiahOne: so I can understand it as if the UX of websites for the ones who are testing Nightly is nowhere close to being anyones concern ?
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- # [22:20] <jcranmer> I really need a code review tool that can give me more context than what's in the patch
- # [22:21] <JosiahOne> glosoli: Web developers should be testing on Beta. By Beta we expected Firefox to be almost bug-free. Aurora and Nightly are not as important if they can be fixed by that time. Does that make sense?
- # [22:21] <glosoli> JosiahOne: It's not the websites I am curious to test :)
- # [22:22] <glosoli> I am just trying to find more reasons to get away from Chrome
- # [22:22] <jcranmer> I tend not to mind so much for the patches I write, but when I'm reviewing one-line patches :-/
- # [22:22] <JosiahOne> glosoli: Right. But Nightly/Aurora isn't for users. So the goal is not for people to use it just because they can.
- # [22:23] <glosoli> So what's Nightly for ?
- # [22:23] <Sho> Yoric: I find this interesting: http://firefox-marketplace-api.readthedocs.org/en/latest/topics/misc.html#category-response-label
- # [22:23] <JosiahOne> glosoli: Of course we love people to file bugs, but you can't expect them all to get fixed in a completely unstable build.
- # [22:23] <dan> to be honest firefox still lacks some web dev functions that chrome has by default, I know firebug has them, but I'd rather have it all in firefox itself (and with the nice style)
- # [22:23] <Yoric> Sho: Sorry, out of ideas.
- # [22:23] <Sho> Yoric: Maybe a category is a complex object that stringifies to .id and the code should work with .name
- # [22:23] <JosiahOne> glosoli: To file bugs for, so that we can fix them *before* Aurora (preferably) or at the latest Beta.
- # [22:24] <Yoric> glosoli: For testers and developers.
- # [22:24] <Yoric> Sho: That sounds unlikely.
- # [22:24] <glosoli> JosiahOne: as I said that's not the first bug I reported, just the one that is really noticeable and being regression it makes it suck even more. Also I don't expect it to be fixed the same time I report if you look at the report date: 2013-05-06 it was reported long before I reported the duplicate
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- # [22:24] <Yoric> By default, JSON.stringify is a simple operation. It can be specialized, but it doesn't look like that's the case here.
- # [22:25] <Sho> bummer :)
- # [22:26] <JosiahOne> glosoli: A month isn't bad at all. Since we already missed the chance to fix that before Aurora, as long as it gets landed before the merge, it's all good, and the issue was successfully resolved. It would have been preferred if someone noticed it during Nightly, but that is not the case here.
- # [22:26] <JosiahOne> glosoli: Therefore the priority isn't very high.
- # [22:26] <Sho> Yoric: But still the apidox suggest that categories do have numerical ids, so that's probably where those numbers come from
- # [22:26] <Yoric> Sho: Could be.
- # [22:27] <Yoric> But regardless, it looks like a bug.
- # [22:27] <Yoric> i.e. someone projecting categories to categories.id, or something such.
- # [22:27] <Yoric> Just in case, you could dump categories.toSource() instead of JSON.stringify(categories).
- # [22:27] <Yoric> I suspect that won't be very different.
- # [22:27] <glosoli> JosiahOne: what can I see, probably it's a matter of resources ,though never seen regression taking so much time to be resolved in Chrome, not that I am complained, just disappointed that my understanding of stuff differ from firefox as a project itself radically
- # [22:28] <JosiahOne> glosoli: But do you use Canary as your main browser as you do Firefox.
- # [22:28] <JosiahOne> ?
- # [22:28] <glosoli> JosiahOne: I use Dev Channel, also tried using Canary, I just hated the icon :)
- # [22:29] <glosoli> I am very concerned with the looks :)
- # [22:29] <JosiahOne> glosoli: As am I.
- # [22:29] <glosoli> I would have used Aurora
- # [22:29] <glosoli> But it's icon is even worse
- # [22:29] <glosoli> than Nightly
- # [22:29] <glosoli> :)
- # [22:29] <Sho> Yoric: Aye, toSource() is identical
- # [22:29] <JosiahOne> glosoli: Dev Channel is like Aurora. In which case this bug would have only just showed up and would have been fixed in the next version.
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- # [22:30] <JosiahOne> glosoli: Fixed in the next version is really as fast they come. (Ignoring Daily updates from Nightly).
- # [22:30] <JosiahOne> glosoli: I had an issue with Chrome that didn't get resolved for over a month, and it was a "severe" UX bug.
- # [22:30] <glosoli> JosiahOne: I am quite sure I could load Canary and continue it using without any thoughts that such a bug like select bod would be at the very least concern, I am complaining because UI is my concern and also I am a dickhead
- # [22:31] <glosoli> JosiahOne: what kind of bug ?
- # [22:31] <Sho> Yoric: If you're saying .categories is directly computed by the app source code I guess I need to figure out how to get at that code for one of the apps to have a look at it
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- # [22:32] <JosiahOne> glosoli: The new "New tab" page was completely unusable for about a two weeks. After that the page would show, just very broken. After about three weeks it was finally functioning (fairly properly).
- # [22:32] <glosoli> JosiahOne: with the recent updates like month or so ago ?
- # [22:33] <JosiahOne> glosoli: Yeah, the thing was fixed about last week. The issue started toward the beginning of April.
- # [22:33] <glosoli> JosiahOne: well, situations is way different :) one was given ability to disable it
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- # [22:33] <glosoli> I am not able to disable select box regressions though
- # [22:33] <glosoli> :)
- # [22:34] <JosiahOne> glosoli: But again, to the users and web developers, they will never notice an issue.
- # [22:34] <JosiahOne> glosoli: It's the same case here.
- # [22:34] <glosoli> Nah it isn't
- # [22:34] <glosoli> It did not affected Web as experience it affected Chrome as experience and with ability to disable
- # [22:34] <glosoli> <select> box bug affects whole Web as experience
- # [22:35] <JosiahOne> glosoli: So? The idea is the same. It will be fixed by the next Aurora? The time it took to fix is the same.
- # [22:35] <JosiahOne> Approximately.
- # [22:35] <glosoli> I doubt you could consider idea as the same
- # [22:35] <glosoli> As in the Chrome situation it was Chrome who got bug, and this one is Web who got bugged by Firefox
- # [22:35] <glosoli> :)
- # [22:36] <glosoli> THough there are things in Chrome which hadn't been taken care for years, like Font Rendering, so I am not trying to imply something on comparing quality of two projects
- # [22:37] <JosiahOne> glosoli: Well, you're entitled to your opinion. Just know that we aren't going to change things that aren't real issues. Just because you want to use Nightly as your main browser instead of Firefox/Firefox Beta, doesn't mean we need to fix issues within a week. :)
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- # [22:37] <glosoli> Hmm and that was it :) from your point of view it is not a real issue.
- # [22:37] <glosoli> So please don't tell me the stories
- # [22:38] <glosoli> that UI is your main concern
- # [22:38] <glosoli> Thanks for the nice talk :)
- # [22:38] <JosiahOne> glosoli: I'm a front-end developer, that's what I do.
- # [22:38] <glosoli> It's a pity to hear such things from a guy who is front end dev
- # [22:38] <glosoli> :)
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- # [22:39] <Yoric> Sho: I don't have any better idea.
- # [22:39] <Sho> Yoric: Np ... you've already helped me a lot with all of the above, thanks
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- # [22:40] <JosiahOne> glosoli: If no one took the bug, then I would have, but we can't fix all bugs in less than a week. As long as it doesn't affect our users/developers, it really is a no-issue. Probably less than 1% of our users use Nightly as you do. :)
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- # [22:41] <glosoli> JosiahOne: That's not a point anymore, you just told it is not a real issue anyway
- # [22:41] <glosoli> And that said you say that you are front-end dev
- # [22:41] <glosoli> Somehow mixes weirdly
- # [22:42] <Sho> Yoric: I'm still a bit unclear what exactly ends up calling installPackage(), but if it's JavaScript served by marketplace.firefox.com the marketplace-has-changed thing might still turn out to be true
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- # [22:43] <JosiahOne> glosoli: I'm not saying the ui-problem is not an issue. I'm saying we want things fixed by Beta, as long as that happens then there is no real problem. Obviously the bug is bad, but fixing it before Beta is not nearly as important. If the bug was hanging there for months, with no progress, then *that* would be an issue.
- # [22:44] <JosiahOne> glosoli: (Understand when I said it's "not an issue", I mean the speed of development, not the severity of the bug.)
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- # [22:46] <glosoli> JosiahOne: is it the same story wit hthis one: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=301451 ?
- # [22:46] <Yoric> Sho: I believe that it's called by the app itself.
- # [22:47] <glosoli> JosiahOne: or this is also the case with Mac not having enough market share, as the same story as Nightly being used only by less than 1% of people in the way I use it ? again being ironic
- # [22:49] <JosiahOne> glosoli: No, unfortunately that is just a forgotten bug. :(
- # [22:50] <Sho> Yoric: Not sure, I found a JS file included by the marketplace page that certainly does make installPackage() calls, and also seems to interact with the category API - but it's fairly heavily obfuscated and hard to read
- # [22:50] <glosoli> JosiahOne: yeah, and that makes me wonder, maybe <select> will also be forgotten and then later some sort of dom manipulation, and all the friggin forgotten thing happens why? Because it is said the bug only needs to be fixed until beta.
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- # [22:51] <glosoli> I love this comment "2005 - 2013 - cmd+alt+D still not working :)"
- # [22:51] <JosiahOne> glosoli: But it's JUST been reviewed. I really don't understand your complaint. Do you expect spohl to land this during a weekend/holiday?
- # [22:51] <glosoli> Nah, I would be glad if it would land in this quarter.. from what I see
- # [22:51] <glosoli> being ironic again
- # [22:52] <JosiahOne> glosoli: But it's severe enough that it will be fixed this week.
- # [22:52] <glosoli> Which one, that one which was reported month ago or the one which was reported several years ago ?
- # [22:52] <JosiahOne> glosoli: The one reported a month ago.
- # [22:53] <JosiahOne> glosoli: No one reported years ago needs a volunteer.
- # [22:53] <glosoli> JosiahOne: okay if it will be this week, how long would it take to push it for nightly ? :)
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- # [22:53] <JosiahOne> glosoli: No, I mean it will be pushed into nightly this week.
- # [22:54] <glosoli> JosiahOne: Okay, thanks for having a patience to talk with me :) Glad to know that at least there are still people who care
- # [22:55] <JosiahOne> glosoli: Everyone cares, just not everyone can fix everything.
- # [22:55] <glosoli> JosiahOne: I wouldn't say that too :) Everyone cares, but most of them, see UI problems as the lowest point
- # [22:55] <glosoli> s/point/concern
- # [22:57] <JosiahOne> glosoli: No, UI problems are some of the most difficult to fix. That's why they get neglected. We have about 320 total people working on Firefox. More than 2/3 of those are volunteers (probably more). Now of that 1/3 left, let's say another 1/3 are front-end developers.
- # [22:57] <glosoli> "No, UI problems are some of the most difficult to fix. That's why they get neglected." that's where the difference of good and bad developer comes in
- # [22:57] <glosoli> :)
- # [22:57] <JosiahOne> glosoli: That leaves about 35 developers.
- # [22:57] <glosoli> hmmm
- # [22:57] <JosiahOne> glosoli: 35 developers to fix ALL of the issues. Those aren't great odds.
- # [22:58] <glosoli> 35 developers devoted for everything for just for UI ?
- # [22:58] <glosoli> s/for just/ or just
- # [22:58] <JosiahOne> glosoli: Other things as well.
- # [22:59] <JosiahOne> glosoli: But those 35 are mainly for UI, yes.
- # [22:59] <JosiahOne> (Again, this is a really crude estimate, but still)
- # [22:59] <Sho> Yoric: Anyhow, here's my gameplan because I need to fix this up for a shipping product on a table table: I'm going to use tha API I found earlier to get myself a list of the categories' numeric ids, and then I'll extend that translation table by the numeric keys, and fix the loop body by adding some sort of int-vs-string type check, so it works for both string and int cases ... and then I'll file a bug at bugs.mozilla.org so you guys can fix
- # [22:59] <Sho> this or the marketplace webapp in a proper way
- # [23:00] <Sho> Yoric: s,table table,time table,
- # [23:00] <glosoli> JosiahOne: what kind of knowledge is needed to fix UI problems related to Mac platform ?
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- # [23:00] <JosiahOne> glosoli: Quite a bit. In that case we need Cocoa developers, which if you look in Macdev, is probably about 4.
- # [23:01] <JosiahOne> (Actual employees.)
- # [23:01] <JosiahOne> glosoli: 4 people to handle all of Cocoa issues.
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- # [23:02] <glosoli> JosiahOne: so it concludes to C++ and Obj C ?
- # [23:03] <JosiahOne> glosoli: Well those things are quite different. We have a lot of C++ people, not a lot of Obj C.
- # [23:03] <glosoli> JosiahOne: I know it's different, but not Cocoa related UI stuff is managed in C++ isn't it ?
- # [23:03] <JosiahOne> glosoli: Some parts. Like the widgets.
- # [23:04] <JosiahOne> glosoli: But the bug you linked to requires Cocoa.
- # [23:04] <glosoli> JosiahOne: i know :)
- # [23:04] <glosoli> It's OS X services related
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- # [23:04] <glosoli> It's not Look Up in the dictionary precisely
- # [23:04] <r> hmm I'm not sure if I'm at the right place, but is this the place for mozilla related stuffs?
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- # [23:04] <JosiahOne> r: Yessir.
- # [23:05] <JosiahOne> r: If you mean Mozilla development.
- # [23:05] <r> yeah
- # [23:05] <JosiahOne> r: Then yes.
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- # [23:05] <JosiahOne> glosoli: Right, but our custom engine requires us to re-implement all native services. A real downside of doing everything ourselves.
- # [23:06] <glosoli> ouh
- # [23:06] <r> I want to help contributing to mozilla, but this is my first time here so I'm not sure if I'm at the right place or not
- # [23:06] <JosiahOne> r: If this is your first time, then try #introduction.
- # [23:06] <r> thanks :)
- # [23:06] <JosiahOne> r: They should help you out, not sure how many people are there right now. Sundays are usually pretty quiet.
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- # [23:07] <r> oh okay.
- # [23:07] <glosoli> JosiahOne: I thought it is way more simple, I mean the service thing.. :)
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- # [23:07] <Yoric> Sho: Well, you could also get in touch with felipe.
- # [23:08] <Yoric> (who wrote that code in the first place)
- # [23:08] <JosiahOne> glosoli: Looks like at first people thought it was. Apparently it was discovered that it's a lot harder. Then progress ceased for a dependent bug, and no one really picked it up after that.
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- # [23:09] <glosoli> JosiahOne: curious what do you mean when saying custom engine
- # [23:09] <glosoli> ?
- # [23:10] <Sho> Yoric: I guess the bugs.mozilla.org entry will wind up getting in touch with him ... it just seems to me that ultimately the situaion is that marketplace.firefox.com currently hands us integers instead of strings, and that might either turn out to be intentional or not, so it might either stay ints or become strings again ... so the only thing I can do is ship something that can cope with either, so it works now and also if m.f.o changes again
- # [23:11] <JosiahOne> glosoli: Most of the "native" stuff is actually highly customized classes to make things work with Gecko. It requires a lot of reworking. (See the new scrollbars. Those are completely custom elements, since we couldn't use Cocoa NSScrollView or a subclass)
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- # [23:12] <glosoli> JosiahOne: this must suck
- # [23:12] <glosoli> from the development perspective
- # [23:12] <Sho> Yoric: fwiw, the numbers do turn out to be the relevant cat ids - http://paste.kde.org/751220/
- # [23:12] <JosiahOne> glosoli: Yep, and now you understand why Mac development goes so slow. 4 developers, re-writing everything, for all Cocoa bugs. Not pretty.
- # [23:13] <JosiahOne> glosoli: I might take that bug though, it is really annoying.
- # [23:13] <glosoli> JosiahOne: well that bug is what most of the times drives me back to Chrome.. I really like getting dictionary at my hand though
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- # [23:14] <JosiahOne> glosoli: Yeah, I like that too. I'll take it after my vacation. Unfortunately that means no progress for another two weeks. But hey, 8 years, what's another two weeks. ;)
- # [23:15] <glosoli> lol, this really made me laugh ;d
- # [23:15] <glosoli> not disrespect meant ;d
- # [23:15] <glosoli> s/not/no
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- # [23:15] <JosiahOne> glosoli: None taken. :)
- # [23:16] <glosoli> JosiahOne: is there no way to make some sort of bridge to community with ObjC stuff ?
- # [23:16] <glosoli> I mean with Cocoa stuff precisely
- # [23:17] <JosiahOne> glosoli: Well, that's kind of what we have to do. The "Cocoa" development really should be called. "We should use this Cocoa API, now make it work with our cross-platform Gecko engine."
- # [23:18] <JosiahOne> glosoli: Well, I'm off to eat some dinner. Hope I cleared some things up for you. Keep on filing those bugs, they really do help us. :)
- # [23:18] * JosiahOne is now known as JosiahOne|Away
- # [23:18] <glosoli> JosiahOne: I would be honest, I would postpone using FF until <select> is fixed... but thanks for explanations
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- # [23:29] <Sho> Yoric: Can you have a look at http://paste.kde.org/751226/69603718/?
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- # [23:32] <Sho> Yoric: Conceptually that is, particularly the type check; I did just realize that 'let' means catLower won't make it past block scope (as mentioned, JS virgin)
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- # [23:37] <browserallTabspreviews> why had browser.allTabs.previews to be killed? -.-
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- # Session Close: Mon May 27 00:00:00 2013
The end :)