/irc-logs / mozilla / #developers / 2013-07-01 / end

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# Session Start: Mon Jul 01 00:00:00 2013
# Session Ident: #developers
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# [00:06] <nthomas> that and guaranteed clobber
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# [00:10] <@smaug> hmm, https://people.mozilla.com/~catlee/highscores/highscores.html doesn't update too often, doesn't it?
# [00:10] <@smaug> er, does it
# [00:11] <philor> we manually clobber.... rather a lot, though
# [00:12] <philor> smaug: thinking you've got a chance to move up?
# [00:13] <philor> sweet, I'm well up the page now!
# [00:14] <@smaug> philor: yup
# [00:14] <@smaug> debugging using tryserver isn't exactly fun
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# [00:20] <philor> the one I want to see, the one that would actually be good for the project rather than harmful, is Inbound Backout High Scores
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# [00:21] <philor> something like the number of pushes between push and backout, multiplied by the severity of the bugs you delayed in that range, with bonus points for taking out a periodic PGO build so we have to retrigger after the backout
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# [00:42] <philor> and I'd really like to know why https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?showall=1&tree=Mozilla-Inbound&rev=3c993adfab9c is pretty normal for a Sunday, and unheard of on weekdays
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# [00:47] <Gijs> philor: I'm looking at that link and not getting it. What do you mean?
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# [00:47] <philor> Gijs: one orange
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# [00:48] <Gijs> load on the machines makes timeout and infrastructure related failures more likely?
# [00:48] <Gijs> (shooting from the hip)
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# [00:48] <philor> yeah, apparently, where the best guess is heat, but how could we have that much heat swing, or be that delicate?
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# [00:49] <nthomas> that's running in AWS
# [00:50] <Gijs> Well, at least on UX, where as far as I can tell I'm the main person starring all the oranges, I'm seeing a fair number of infrastructure failures.
# [00:50] <Gijs> eg. timeouts in downloading the rev/build/stuff.
# [00:50] <Gijs> If we could auto-detect those and simply try again 5 minutes later rather than failing the build, for 3 times, that'll probably fix some of it.
# [00:51] <Gijs> Other than that, random timing issues aren't necessarily just physical heat, but also if the machine has fewer cycles available, things go slower, I guess?
# [00:51] <Gijs> I mean, I know VMs are supposed to be isolated, and I'm guessing a single VM only does one build at a time for us.
# [00:51] <Gijs> But I'm honestly skeptical about how well-isolated the VMs really are.
# [00:52] <Gijs> That is, I find them not being as isolated as we might like the most plausible explanation for the difference you're pointing out.
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# [00:53] <nthomas> I'm seeing very little infra issues on UX right now
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# [00:53] <Gijs> nthomas: depends what your definition of 'very little' is, I guess. I don't usually deal with m-c or inbound, so I have no idea how it compares.
# [00:53] <nthomas> there's many more code issues (eg JP, the bc) than infra
# [00:54] <Gijs> nthomas: I just find it odd that I see failures that literally seem to be "huh, we tried to download this build, and we failed, so we're going to go home now"
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# [00:54] <Gijs> nthomas: right, but that's beside the point for this discussion. :)
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# [00:54] <nthomas> I know blame the infra is a great game, but some pointers to what you mean would be great
# [00:54] <Gijs> It's a branch, we won't merge until the orange is taken care of, but it's not straightforward because it's jetpack and we have to go through git first, then merge.
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# [00:57] <nthomas> philor: bug 774844 is just mac ?
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# [01:00] <Gijs> https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getParsedLog.php?id=24759808&tree=UX, https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getParsedLog.php?id=24759865&tree=UX, https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getParsedLog.php?id=24750262&tree=UX, https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getParsedLog.php?id=24750263&tree=UX, https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getParsedLog.php?id=24750268&tree=UX, https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getParsedLog.php?id=24724564&tree=UX
# [01:00] <Gijs> , https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getParsedLog.php?id=24725832&tree=UX, https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getParsedLog.php?id=24725847&tree=UX, https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getParsedLog.php?id=24674710&tree=UX
# [01:01] <Gijs> That's between Thursday and now, and what I could still find now that everything is starred and it's a bit of needle/haystack.
# [01:02] <Gijs> nthomas: I'm not saying the primary issue isn't code - far from it - I'm just saying, timeouts dependent on fetching stuff over the network are more liable to fail when things are busy than when they're not.
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# [01:05] <philor> nthomas: yeah, just Mac, don't think anyone has a theory about why
# [01:05] <philor> because nobody actually cares about it, or understands it, so nobody's going to really look
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# [01:06] <nthomas> I thought it was because of how we upload new logs, but apparently it's failing to run leakstats on the newly generated log
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# [01:15] <Gijs> Hmm, also, build system question... if I change an existing line in jar.mn, on Windows, that seems to require a clobber. Does anyone know about this and/or what we can do to fix it? It's a little sadmaking.
# [01:15] <Gijs> eg. going from: foo/bar/baz.png
# [01:15] <njn> bug 888888 might get filed today
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# [01:15] <Gijs> to: foo/bar/baz.png (blubber.png)
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# [01:15] <njn> I just filed bug 888768
# [01:15] <nthomas> Gijs: there's only three network fetching errors there, although there are 5 instance of the master -- slave connection dying which may have some element of congestion
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# [01:16] <Gijs> nthomas: I couldn't find the one I saw last; I'm sure I've seen one more recently than Thursday, but like I said, it's hard to find it back now that it's starred already.
# [01:16] * Gijs pokes bugzilla
# [01:17] <Gijs> Ah, that's easier.
# [01:17] <Gijs> https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getParsedLog.php?id=24764940&tree=Try
# [01:17] <Gijs> Heh, that explains why I didn't see it - it was on try. :)
# [01:18] <philor> yeah, bug 845280 and bug 840305 are pretty tiresome, but according to Orange Factor if you take out the infra, it drops us from around 4.5 per push to 3.7
# [01:19] <Gijs> philor: what tree is that on? All of them?
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# [01:19] <philor> the most tiresome part being "we can't just disable something and make them go away"
# [01:20] <philor> Gijs: "trunk", though its trunk doesn't include ux or gfx or twigs
# [01:20] <Gijs> philor: doesn't include try then, though? :)
# [01:20] <philor> nobody in their right mind includes try
# [01:20] <Gijs> Well right, just checking. ;)
# [01:21] <Gijs> Anyway, I sympathize... tracking down some of these issues on UX is "fun", but I still think we should avoid disabling/making-them-go-away tests to the extent that things aren't otherwise tested...
# [01:22] <Gijs> (and fix tests instead)
# [01:23] <Gijs> philor: is there an easy way to see test failures that were recently introduced? Just searching for keyword:intermittent-failure plus when they were filed?
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# [01:25] <philor> Gijs: yeah, don't know any easier way
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# [01:26] <philor> and the problem with not disabling is that your first step is to either hire quite a few people, or persuade management that it would be a good idea to not ship any new features for, say, two or three cycles
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# [01:27] <philor> "Firefox 26: It Doesn't Make philor As Angry" "Firefox 27: Most Tests Pass All The Time" "Firefox 28: Wow Is Our Tree Green"
# [01:27] <Gijs> philor: well, for perma-orange that isn't real orange, I see the point, but for intermittent orange, what's the burden of not disabling the tests?
# [01:27] <Gijs> Heh.
# [01:27] <Gijs> Like, how crazy does it get?
# [01:27] <Gijs> And/or, will treeherder help make this better?
# [01:28] <@roc> or, we could build some really awesome tools that make it much easier to debug orange bugs
# [01:28] * Gijs seems to record some record and replay debugging tools :)
# [01:28] <philor> dunno, will treeherder retrigger every single failed suite on try?
# [01:28] <Gijs> roc: yeah, so that I don't have to do this to get a paint dump list: https://hg.mozilla.org/try/rev/14d7c33e92bd ? ;P
# [01:28] <philor> the difference between a try push that breaks test_logging.js and a try push which does not is... absolutely nothing, unless you retrigger
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# [01:29] <Gijs> roc: speaking of which, I would quite like to know why that test tests what it tests and/or how important it is given my last two comments (bug 886281 )
# [01:29] <philor> we also have literally hundreds of failures that break the suite, so you didn't actually run the tests
# [01:29] <philor> hell, we have literally hundreds of a *single* failure, "exited with code -20"
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# [01:30] <@roc> there's a performance impact
# [01:30] <Gijs> philor: what process actually exits with that code? Do we have any idea where that's from?
# [01:30] <philor> Gijs: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=%22Exited+with+code+-20+during+test+run%22
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# [01:30] <philor> I think if you read every bug, you'll find that nobody has any idea
# [01:31] <Gijs> ... why do we have so many bugs? :)
# [01:31] <philor> because there's a limit on the number of characters in the summary
# [01:31] <philor> and tbpl matches on test filenames in the summary
# [01:31] <philor> and test_browserElement_oop is very fond of extremely long filenames
# [01:32] <Gijs> :'(
# [01:32] <philor> and in a few cases, early on, we probably thought it was something real and related to the test
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# [01:34] <philor> and those bugs are actually only a part of it, I've stopped filing and started just starring with that quicksearch URL
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# [01:36] <philor> but for the test authors, there's no incentive to even look at it - as long as their test runs fairly often, if something breaks it completely it's someone else's job to find out what and back it out
# [01:36] <philor> so disabling tests is actually the single incentive we have to persuade anyone to ever look at any failure
# [01:36] <philor> this makes us assholes
# [01:36] * Gijs doesn't think you're assholes.
# [01:37] <Gijs> Seriously, I remember having to watch the tree myself, no mozilla-inbound, no starring, actual tinderbox.m.o. I guess that makes me old or whatever, but in any case, I really appreciate having people sheriff.
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# [01:38] <njn> Gijs: not too long ago roc said something like "in my 10 years of working on Mozilla code, it's never been as easy to land patches as it is now"
# [01:39] <Gijs> I get that it's a thankless job, and that sucks. But I do really appreciate that there are people who do that thankless job.
# [01:39] <Gijs> njn: yeah; I've not been around as long as roc, nor as present / awesome, but I would totally agree.
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# [01:44] <Gijs> I guess I should say, 'no help starring' - as you could star builds, but the UI wasn't nearly as easy as it is now.
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# [03:20] <Gijs> What's the git equivalent of 'hg diff -c-1' ? I've been poking manpages and google for the last 10 minutes and can't seem to figure it out. :\
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# [03:21] <Callek> hg --config="extensions.hggit=" diff -c-1
# [03:21] * Callek ducks
# [03:21] <Callek> but yea git-is-hard
# [03:22] <Gijs> I've now found 'git diff HEAD^ HEAD'
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# [03:22] <Gijs> which I think is roughly the same unless you have exciting multiple head cases.
# [03:22] <Gijs> Still, more typing. :(
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# [03:31] <corey> git show -v, perhaps?
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# [03:32] <Gijs> corey: that's nice, thanks!
# [03:33] * Gijs will now try to remember it for next time...
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# [03:42] <Hughman> any theme people here? in this case windows default theme
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# [03:51] <Hughman> hmm... looks like my missing minimize/restore buttons are just a fluke
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# [04:58] <jesup> Since there was no response in #mobile, Is there a trick to installing a firefox try build on Android? I download the .apk and try to install it, and get "application not installed"
# [04:59] <JonathanS> jesup, what happened when you tried to install it?
# [05:00] <jesup> "application not installed" (after it asked if I wanted to install it, and that no new permissions were needed)
# [05:00] <jesup> On both a Nexus 10 tablet and a Galaxy S4
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# [05:01] <JonathanS> you only get "application not installed" if you tried to click the application that is not properly installed
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# [05:01] <Callek> jesup: if you already have a nightly installed, you may need to uninstall it first
# [05:02] <Callek> it uses the org.mozilla.fennec apk id, which has a different signing cert iirc
# [05:04] <jesup> aha, thanks. Figured it was something like this
# [05:04] <Callek> let me know if that doesn't work, and I can look/test deeper myself
# [05:04] <Callek> (I have a S3 here)
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# [05:05] <jesup> Installed on the N10, thanks.
# [05:06] <jesup> Just got the S4 a few days ago. still getting used to that one.
# [05:10] <darktrojan> oh hey cool, my build failed before I even left home
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# [05:10] <darktrojan> so much for it being ready when I came back
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# [05:11] <@roc> hehe
# [05:13] <darktrojan> sigh
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# [05:25] <heycam> I have a downloaded nightly distribution (so no source), and I want to load a page in it with chrome priveleges. I tried `firefox -chrome …` but that didn't seem to confer the privileges. what's the easiest way to do this?
# [05:26] <heycam> s/priveleges/privileges/
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# [06:05] <philor> and to my enormous shock, it probably is telemetry shooting us in the clownshoe-covered foot
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# [06:09] <philor> at which point inquiring minds want to know whether reporting the number of sites with mixed content hangs only win8 because only on win8 we're using stale profiles
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# [06:09] * Mook just wants to know if we're wearing clown shoes inside clown shoes
# [06:10] <philor> clownshoes all the way down to our bloody toes
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# [06:11] <Callek> Mook: we're wearing clownshoes, inside a clowncar, with lots of other clowns, and then a giant clown wearing said clowncar as clown shoes
# [06:12] <@dbaron> aren't clownshoes generally big enough to keep one's toes from getting bloody?
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# [06:12] <Callek> dbaron: not if you have LOTS of clownshoes on one foot
# [06:13] <philor> not if you shoot yourself in the foot
# [06:13] <philor> constantly
# [06:13] <Mook> Callek: sounds like we could use a clown An-225
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# [06:14] <philor> if you can't keep your hands off MOZ_UPDATE_CHANNEL, and keep defining things for nightly but not for default, no number of nested clownshoes are going to keep the footgun bullets at bay
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# [06:42] <philor> whew, close one: had this checkin-needed patch actually paid attention to comment 0, it would have reverted my first-ever patch
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# [06:57] <Callek> philor: which checkin-needed was this?
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# [06:58] <philor> bug 570266
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# [08:28] <ferjm> how can I backout more than one commit?
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# [08:30] <caitp> is that a mercurial question?
# [08:30] <reuben> ferjm: https://bitbucket.org/sfink/qbackout/src
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# [08:31] <ferjm> reuben, thanks! caitp, yes
# [08:31] <Callek> bah there used to be a how-to on ehsan's blog but ehsanakhgari.org is not resolving for me
# [08:31] <Callek> :(
# [08:32] <reuben> ferjm: also, most mercurial commands that expect a revision accept a revset
# [08:32] <caitp> I don't use qbackout, but I think you could probably just use purge and keep purging -r tip until you're happy
# [08:32] <reuben> ferjm: see |hg help revset|
# [08:32] <caitp> er
# [08:32] <Callek> caitp: purge doesn't do a backout
# [08:32] <caitp> not purge
# [08:32] <reuben> so you could also do |hg backout -r foo:bar|
# [08:32] <Callek> yea
# [08:32] <caitp> yeah
# [08:32] <caitp> the other one
# [08:32] <reuben> qbackout is just more convenient
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# [08:32] <caitp> trim?
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# [08:33] <reuben> caitp: …backout :)
# [08:33] <Callek> reuben: the reason I was looking for ehsan's was to literally give the command he wanted with the context to know what revs to choose for each part
# [08:33] <ferjm> ok, I'll try. thanks!
# [08:34] <caitp> I know there's one like "trim" or something that does it, but my workflow is organized around single commit -> export new patch -> rollback, so it's not something I use really
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# [08:56] <Ms2ger> Bonjour
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# [08:59] <philor> bonne nuit
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# [09:01] <glazou> bonjour :)
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# [09:40] <NeilAway> does brwsrcmp.dll link against the static crt or the DLL?
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# [09:47] <Callek> huh I'd have thought https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getParsedLog.php?id=24759793&tree=Mozilla-Central would have answered neil's Q -- but it doesn't actually look like that nightly is a clobber
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# [09:47] <Callek> since I don't see the browser comps dll
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# [09:48] <Callek> err nevermind, looks like that was removed in windows
# [09:48] <Callek> NeilAway: ^
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# [09:50] <Callek> ooor maybe not
# [09:50] <Callek> this packaging stuff is confusing me today I should just stay away
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# [10:07] <mjrosenb> can I have a class that has a member that is templated, but not the whole class?
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# [10:13] <Ms2ger> mjrosenb, you mean class A { RefPtr<B> b; }?
# [10:14] <mjrosenb> Ms2ger: yes.
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# [10:14] <Ms2ger> With B constant?
# [10:14] <NeilAway> Callek: well, that and not being able to load tbpl from this PC
# [10:16] <mjrosenb> Ms2ger: nope.
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# [10:16] <Ms2ger> Then you need to template the class, surely
# [10:16] <mjrosenb> Ms2ger: thought so.
# [10:19] <NeilAway> hmm, looks like http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/mozilla/intl/unicharutil/util/Makefile.in#35 isn't working out for me :s
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# [10:21] <NeilAway> maybe I should ask the reviewer, some guy named luser ;-)
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# [10:25] <Callek> NeilAway: no idea who that is, but this guy named :ted seems to pretend he knows more than :luser ever did
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# [10:26] <Ms2ger> On the other hand, if you can't find luser, I hear Callek knows quite a lot too
# [10:26] <Callek> Ms2ger: haha, I only pretend to know a lot
# [10:27] <Callek> and I secretly rely on others knowledge
# [10:27] <Ms2ger> Dammit :)
# [10:27] <JonathanS> was CRT is for jemalloc?
# [10:27] <Callek> I have been around a long time now, so I'm pretty good at guessing too! Also I learned to start ignoring questions that I don't know an answer to.
# [10:27] <Callek> JonathanS: can you try to rephrase the Q
# [10:28] <JonathanS> Callek, malloc library
# [10:28] <Callek> JonathanS: ... in a complete sentence, in english
# [10:28] <JonathanS> Callek, Was CRT is for that malloc library?
# [10:29] * Callek knows what all those terms are, I just can't parse a question there
# [10:29] <Callek> "Was CRT is" is not a question in english
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# [10:30] <JonathanS> I googled "jemalloc" and "CRT" then I get http://pavlovdotnet.wordpress.com/2008/01/12/jemalloc-builds/
# [10:30] <NeilAway> bah, reticulating splines is a lot slower than remaking a single makefile :s
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# [10:30] <Callek> JonathanS: take a step back and *really* think about what you're trying to ask, I seriously don't have a clue... "yes we use jemalloc" and "yes it uses a CRT"
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# [10:33] <JonathanS> Callek, I heard about a guy who wrote jemalloc don't use CRT anymore.
# [10:34] <glazou> NeilAway: yes :(
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# [10:52] <ferjm> mounir, ping
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# [11:04] <Optimize1> When I do a translateX on menulists, their popup does not get translated and thus appears at a totally different (original) location
# [11:05] <Optimize1> any thing I can do to avoid this ?
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# [11:10] <@roc> not really
# [11:10] <gcp> https://read.amazon.com/ <- broken for anyone else?
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# [11:12] <Optimize1> roc: isn't it a bug then ?
# [11:14] <@roc> it probably is but making XUL menulists work better with CSS transforms is not going to be a priority
# [11:15] <Optimize1> let me try normal html input element
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# [11:18] <gfritzsche> gcp: broken as in empty grey-fadish page after login, yes
# [11:21] <gcp> hmm, where to best file that? evangelism I guess?
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# [11:23] <KWierso|Home> gcp: it's just a black page that stays black for me
# [11:23] <Callek> gcp: depends if its broken on all branches or just trunk
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# [11:23] <KWierso|Home> and I see this in the web console: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/2582465
# [11:23] <Callek> it really depends if the issue is ours or amazons ;-)
# [11:23] <AutomatedTester> have we changed our UA yet again?
# [11:24] <Callek> AutomatedTester: why would we?
# [11:24] <gfritzsche> gcp: WFM on Fx21, so apparently a regression
# [11:24] <KWierso|Home> works on 22
# [11:24] <AutomatedTester> Callek: well getting "your browser isnt supported" in nightly when visiting a site with disqus
# [11:24] <AutomatedTester> and can reproduce on my site
# [11:25] * NeilAway sighs
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# [11:25] <KWierso|Home> works in 23
# [11:25] <Callek> I didn't think we changed it
# [11:25] <KWierso|Home> other than the version bump
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# [11:25] <AutomatedTester> http://www.theautomatedtester.co.uk/blog/2013/selenium-conference-2013.html
# [11:26] <NeilAway> roc: is that "90" mile beach really a public highway?
# [11:26] <AutomatedTester> the comments at the bottom arent showing for me on OSX
# [11:26] <KWierso|Home> AutomatedTester: bug 886132
# [11:26] <gcp> filed bug 888850
# [11:26] <KWierso|Home> er, which my awesomebar doesn't realize is a dupe of 885433
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# [11:26] <AutomatedTester> KWierso|Home: ahh awesome
# [11:26] <AutomatedTester> thanks
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# [11:26] <KWierso|Home> aurora 24 shows the greyish amazon page, 25 is completely black for me :\
# [11:27] <AutomatedTester> didnt even think of CSP
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# [11:27] <AutomatedTester> amazon.co.uk works for me ;)
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# [11:35] <KWierso|Home> gcp: commented in the bug with a random stab in the dark :)
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# [11:44] <@smaug> padenot: have you figured out what causes Bug 887421? My patch seems to make it rather common (based on try)
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# [11:46] <@smaug> (my patch reveals bugs also in other tests in case test makes bad assumptions when certain thing runs in the event loop)
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# [11:53] <mjrosenb> ok, yet another silly question. If I have a typedef inside of a class, Foo (e.g. class Foo { typedef vector<Foo> vekt; }, and also inherit from it, (class Bar : Foo {...}) do I need to do anything special to reference vet from Bar?
# [11:55] <Gijs> window.open behaves differently when called from chrome than when it is called from content. How do I explicitly get the content behaviour when calling it from chrome code?
# [11:55] <Gijs> ie, how can I make code run with content privileges that would otherwise run with chrome privileges?
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# [11:57] <Ms2ger> Not sure you can do that
# [11:57] <Gijs> :(
# [11:58] <Gijs> Can't I use some kind of sandbox?
# [11:58] <@smaug> something like window.openDialog... and then pass the url you want to open as an argument
# [11:58] <@smaug> so that you actually get chrome window which has a tab which loads the url you want
# [11:58] * glazou is now known as glazou_bbl
# [11:58] <@smaug> but perhaps you mean something else
# [11:59] <Gijs> So when you use window.open (or window.openDialog) with toolbar=no, from content code, it will hide everything but keep the location bar.
# [11:59] <Gijs> when you use it form chrome, it actually hides the navbar completely.
# [11:59] <Gijs> This breaks some of our code which assumes the navbar is always there.
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# [12:00] <Gijs> I changed that code to not make that assumption, but just got backed out because someone disagreed and said we should fix the test. That's great, but I don't know how I can fix the test. It already uses window.openDialog(browserURL, ..., contentURL).
# [12:00] <@roc> NeilAway: is this a Top Gear question?
# [12:01] <@roc> NeilAway: I believe that yes, it is technically a public road
# [12:01] <@smaug> Gijs: perhaps you need gavin
# [12:01] <@roc> NeilAway: but I think you're not allowed to take rental cars on it and there may be other restrictions.
# [12:02] <@roc> I haven't actually been there myself yet
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# [12:02] <Gijs> smaug: OK, thanks.
# [12:02] <NeilAway> roc: yes, I watched it last night my time (15 hours ago)
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# [12:04] <darktrojan> roc, NeilAway, if you're talking about 90 mile beach, yes it is a public road
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# [12:04] <@smaug> padenot: so https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/a4f84868850f is definitely wrong.
# [12:05] <@smaug> padenot: play is dispatched async, so if you dispatch the runnable first and then remove the element from doc...
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# [12:07] <NeilAway> darktrojan: ta
# [12:08] <darktrojan> also, quicksand
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# [12:08] <NeilAway> darktrojan: does that apply if Jeremy Clarkson is maxing out a Toyota?
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# [12:08] <darktrojan> the quicksand? probably not
# [12:09] <Ms2ger> Quicksand surely is something I expected to be a much bigger problem when I was young
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# [12:09] <darktrojan> that beach does eat cars
# [12:10] <darktrojan> if you stop in the wrong place you don't stand much chance of moving again
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# [12:17] <padenot> smaug: ha, yes, makes sense
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# [12:28] <@roc> darktrojan: like so: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sunk_car.jpg
# [12:28] <darktrojan> more or less
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# [12:42] <Optimize1> roc: sadly, the same thing happens for <select>'s <options>
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# [12:49] <darktrojan> can anyone explain why, when copying an element from one document to another, the style attribute has no effect?
# [12:49] <darktrojan> such as here: http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/toolkit/mozapps/extensions/content/extensions.js#2967
# [12:49] <darktrojan> NeilAway, perhaps? ^
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# [13:12] <glazou_bbl> darktrojan: so you're getting nodes from a document retrieved through xmlhttprequest and append them to rows in the local XUL document right ?
# [13:12] <darktrojan> yes
# [13:13] <glazou_bbl> you can't do that directly, you should use importNode
# [13:13] * glazou_bbl is now known as glazou
# [13:13] <darktrojan> I've tried, it makes no difference
# [13:13] <glazou> to re-reference the node to that document
# [13:13] <glazou> style attr's namespace ?
# [13:14] <darktrojan> hmm
# [13:14] <glazou> you should use importNode anyway, your current way of inserting the node into document's tree is not clean
# [13:14] <Ms2ger> Eh, we specced that ;)
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# [13:15] <darktrojan> yeah, I know :)
# [13:15] <darktrojan> the style attribute should be the in the xul namespace
# [13:15] <glazou> so that's your issue
# [13:16] <glazou> <settting> is probably not
# [13:16] <glazou> s/probably/certainly
# [13:18] <darktrojan> hang on, it's not namespaced
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# [13:20] <Optimize1> can an xul textbox + textbox type = password save username and password ?
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# [13:22] <MihaiMorar> Does anyone know what was implemented instead of Error Console since FF 24a1 ?
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# [13:22] <Optimize1> MihaiMorar: Browser Console
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# [13:24] * darktrojan wonders if this is a namespace issue
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# [13:25] <MihaiMorar> Optimize1: and is there any option to enable the old error console?
# [13:26] <Optimize1> I think so .. do not remember now, msucan ?
# [13:26] <Optimize1> MihaiMorar: you like the old one over this new one ? :O
# [13:26] <MihaiMorar> that's not the point
# [13:27] <darktrojan> hmm, doesn't appear to be
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# [13:27] <MihaiMorar> problem is that I have to run this testcase https://moztrap.mozilla.org/manage/case/6886/
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# [13:27] <MihaiMorar> and running it in browser console tells me that the code from step 6 is undefined
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# [13:29] <MihaiMorar> anyway thx Optimize1 and darktrojan
# [13:30] <Optimize1> MihaiMorar: I think that test case should be updated to use Browser console instead
# [13:30] <darktrojan> oh, I wasn't talking to you MihaiMorar !
# [13:30] <Optimize1> soon (if not yet done) the whole error console code will be gone
# [13:30] <darktrojan> (sorry)
# [13:30] <MihaiMorar> ok, good to know that, thx
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# [13:31] <glazou> Optimize1: and the new dialogs/code will work with xulrunner apps?
# [13:32] <Optimize1> no idea
# [13:32] <Callek|buildduty> Optimize1: Ummm, we can't remove the error console entirely unless the replacement works with XULRunner and other apps
# [13:32] <Callek|buildduty> sorry, but no.
# [13:32] <glazou> wooof
# [13:32] <glazou> thanks Callek|buildduty
# [13:32] <Callek|buildduty> we can make it not launched in Firefox though
# [13:32] <Optimize1> when the time comes to remove it, we will make browser console support all that
# [13:33] <Optimize1> so that is not the issue
# [13:33] * glazou breathers again
# [13:33] <glazou> breathes even
# [13:33] <Callek|buildduty> glazou: frankly I don't have the power to enforce my belief here, but I sure will argue loud if it comes to that
# [13:33] <glazou> ok
# [13:33] <glazou> it's enough pain for us xulrunner-based app authors that venkman is in usch a bad shape
# [13:33] * Gijs whistles innocently
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# [13:34] <Callek|buildduty> Gijs: do you know anyone that works on venkman and can improve that for us?
# [13:34] <Callek|buildduty> :-P
# [13:34] <Optimize1> I don't know abou txulrunner apps
# [13:34] <Gijs> fwiw, there's a SoC project to make the browser debugger work on Thunderbird
# [13:34] <Optimize1> but other gecko based applications support would be supported I guess
# [13:34] <glazou> I hope so
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# [13:34] <Gijs> that will most likely help with having it work on XR apps.
# [13:34] <glazou> debugging BlueGriffon is a pain right now
# [13:35] <glazou> for instance, the "next step" button rarely works and most often does a "continue"...
# [13:35] <glazou> sigh
# [13:35] * Callek|buildduty teases glazou to integrate BlueGriffon into SeaMonkey
# [13:35] * Callek|buildduty would be shocked if he did though
# [13:35] <Gijs> IMHO at this point working on Venkman would be lost effort. Both the APIs it uses and the UI it uses are outdated; it'd be a heroic effort to get it into shape.
# [13:35] <glazou> Callek|buildduty: we already discussed that multiple times and sorry but no
# [13:35] <Callek|buildduty> glazou: and yea that was primarily a tease
# [13:36] <glazou> Gijs: I don't disagree with that ; I am saying xr-based apps really really REALLY need a JS debugger, whatever it is
# [13:36] <Gijs> Sure.
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# [13:36] <Gijs> And I'm saying there is actually someone working on making that work for TB; it'll most likely help for other Gecko apps, too.
# [13:37] <Gijs> So, patience. :)
# [13:37] <Optimize1> rm JSD1
# [13:37] <Optimize1> quit
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# [13:40] <glazou> Gijs: :)
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# [13:40] <KaiRo> wow, that new mozilla.org/firefox/os page is confusing to navigate :-/
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# [13:43] <msucan> MihaiMorar: there's a way to enable the error console
# [13:44] <msucan> MihaiMorar: iirc it is devtools.errorconsole.enabled
# [13:44] <msucan> in about:config
# [13:44] <darktrojan> KaiRo, wow that's crazy
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# [13:45] <darktrojan> who comes up with this stuff
# [13:45] <glazou> KaiRo: should be in 3D :-D
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# [13:46] <KaiRo> darktrojan: our web design team seems to come up with that...
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# [13:47] <glazou> so the question is, does the web design team need more or less alcoholic beverages ? ;-)
# [13:47] <darktrojan> they may need to stop drinking the crazy juice
# [13:47] <glazou> because there is one things absolutely certain : after 5 seconds of presence into that page, everyone's lost wrt navigation...
# [13:47] <glazou> s/things/thing
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# [13:48] <@ted> ugh, they mimicked apple's "scroll to change content" thing
# [13:49] <@roc> if you just go with the flow and press "space" periodically, it sort of works
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# [13:49] <@ted> it looks very similar to this: http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/
# [13:49] <till> ted: that certainly didn't originate with Apple. It's been used for a few years now.
# [13:50] <@ted> this specific implementation feels very similar to apple's mac pro page though
# [13:50] <darktrojan> I like the glowing downwards arrows that do nothing \o/
# [13:51] <till> mmh, the apple thing doesn't do anything for me.
# [13:51] <Gijs> What till said.
# [13:51] <@ted> darktrojan: yeah, those confused me
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# [13:51] <till> And I don't mean that in the "it doesn't touch me, emotionally" sense ;)
# [13:51] <@ted> hah
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# [13:51] <@ted> till: does it load an image?
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# [13:51] <@ted> you have to press the down arrow or click on the arrow to scroll
# [13:52] <till> ted: ok, so it does *something* :)
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# [13:52] <@ted> it looks pretty, but it's pretty horrible to navigate
# [13:52] <till> oh
# [13:52] <darktrojan> I just get a picture of an ugly black rubbish bin
# [13:52] <till> so, for some reason, the down arrow took until just now to appear
# [13:53] <darktrojan> oh there we go
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# [13:53] <till> mmh, I see
# [13:53] <till> Sadly, the firefox/os thing works far worse for me
# [13:55] <darktrojan> RyanVM, :D timebomb time
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# [13:56] <till> In Nightly, I need two down-button presses for each of the horizontal navigation steps, and have to use PgDn for the vertical ones. Which then happily go on mis-aligning
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# [13:56] <darktrojan> "Thus January 31, in extremely limited circumstances, is a part of February."
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# [13:56] * till wants to report this, doesn't even know in which component we track this stuff
# [13:57] <RyanVM> darktrojan?
# [13:58] <darktrojan> you just starred bug 576220
# [13:58] <darktrojan> it's a once a year timebomb
# [13:58] <KaiRo> till: we have a www.m.ozilla.org product in Bugzilla
# [13:58] <KaiRo> erm, remove that one superflouos dot ;-)
# [13:58] <KaiRo> and my typos
# [13:59] <till> KaiRo: I'm looking for that now, thanks :)
# [13:59] <NeilAway> glazou: the remote chrome debugger works reasonably well, but the rest of the remote browser console works poorly or not at all :s
# [14:00] <RyanVM> ah
# [14:01] <MihaiMorar> msucan: thanks!
# [14:01] <RyanVM> darktrojan: hence the high priority for fixing it :P
# [14:01] <darktrojan> exactly
# [14:02] <darktrojan> RyanVM, IIRC it didn't happen last year because of the leap day
# [14:03] <RyanVM> that would make sense from what your last comment said :)
# [14:03] <darktrojan> so 3 hours out of 4 years is high priority stuff
# [14:03] <RyanVM> :)
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# [14:05] <darktrojan> oh I've just figured out what the top of the mac pro is good for
# [14:05] <darktrojan> keeping your coffee warm
# [14:05] <darktrojan> programmatically
# [14:06] <sheppy> Stupid regexp question from Mr. CantRegexp: If I have a regexp that needs to ignore everything after a certain point (that is, it doesn't matter what comes after the last thing I'm interested in), how do I indicate that?
# [14:06] <sheppy> I tried adding ".+" to the end and it didn't seem to work.
# [14:06] <darktrojan> .*
# [14:06] <Callek|buildduty> or omit-matching of the latter stuff
# [14:06] <till> Ok, so that is must be the most unhelpful collection of bugs in bmo, ever.
# [14:06] <Gijs> mmmmm, happy mailman reminder day everyone.
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# [14:06] <Callek|buildduty> as in "some text to match-this is ignorable" s/^some text to match/
# [14:07] <Callek|buildduty> sheppy: do you need syntax for apple II BASIC?
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# [14:07] <sheppy> Callek|buildduty: Hm?
# [14:07] <Callek|buildduty> sheppy: to insert into the "hey people" program
# [14:07] <sheppy> Callek|buildduty: LOL
# [14:07] <till> I can't even find out if I'm looking at the right tracking bugs, because all links to preview versions or screenshots or product plans lead to intranet pages or private github repos I don't have access to
# [14:08] <Gijs> sheppy: what Callek said. Do you Really Need to match the things after which you're not interested in (eg. because you need to have the entire line for some reason) ?
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# [14:08] <Gijs> If not, just don't have anything after it, and it should still work.
# [14:08] <sheppy> Well… I'm trying to test to see if a given URL matches one of three forms, and it's failing to match on one of them where the source tends to add cruft at the end.
# [14:08] <sheppy> I'm trying to get it to ignore the cruft and it seems that it's failing to ignore it.
# [14:09] <Callek|buildduty> does your regex match-whole-string, as in wrapped in ^ and $
# [14:09] <_AtilA_> sheppy, stay away from regular expressions if you don't want to get mad....
# [14:09] <sheppy> _AtilA_: lol
# [14:09] <Gijs> sheppy: link to code? :)
# [14:09] <_AtilA_> I didn't... so...
# [14:09] <Callek|buildduty> or is it plain regex compare, in which case if you omit the "rest of the stuff you don't care about" it won't matter
# [14:09] <Gijs> (pastebin if you don't have it somewhere you can link to already)
# [14:09] <sheppy> Callek|buildduty: Yeah, it's the latter.
# [14:10] <sheppy> I think this is me doing something stupid elsewhere… hang on… :)
# [14:10] <Gijs> :)
# [14:10] <RyanVM> Gijs: why did that have to go on m-c directly?
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# [14:10] <RyanVM> just because Dao backed it out there needlessly doesn't mean you have to compound the fail
# [14:10] <Gijs> RyanVM: because an earlier version was backed out on m-c, and because if that got merged to UX without the fix it would turn the tree there orange.
# [14:11] <Gijs> RyanVM: Sorry.
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# [14:12] <Gijs> (just trying to avoid bustage)
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# [14:17] <darktrojan> firebot, botsnack
# [14:17] <firebot> yay
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# [14:21] <sheppy> OK… so… I'm trying to match against the links that Google docs perverts Bugzilla links into, such as: http://www.google.com/url?q=https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=677538&usd=2&usg=blahbhsdlfkshjdfhblah :)
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# [14:22] <sheppy> My regexp is /https?:\/\/www\.google\.com\/url\?q=https?:\/\/bugzilla\.mozilla\.org\/show_bug\.cgi\?id=\d+/
# [14:22] <sheppy> What am I missing here? :)
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# [14:24] <sheppy> Oh, looks like Google is replacing the "=" with \u003d in the HTML.
# [14:24] * sheppy fiddles with code.
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# [14:29] <RyanVM> Ms2ger: ping
# [14:29] <Ms2ger> Uh-oh
# [14:29] <RyanVM> yeah, problems
# [14:29] <Ms2ger> What's up?
# [14:29] <RyanVM> https://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/e07fc1165da9
# [14:30] <RyanVM> you nuked that makefile in bug 887012
# [14:30] <Ms2ger> Ah
# [14:30] <Ms2ger> Yeah, should be restored, then
# [14:30] <RyanVM> for once, I think I should have kept the changed makefile rather than keeping deleted
# [14:31] <Ms2ger> Want me to put it back?
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# [14:33] <RyanVM> I've got it
# [14:33] <RyanVM> i'll push it with the birch merge I'm going to do in a bit
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# [14:34] <Ms2ger> Okay
# [14:34] <Ms2ger> And sorry about that, I should have known someone would touch at least one of them
# [14:34] <RyanVM> crappy timing more than anything esle
# [14:34] * Ms2ger looks who got bug 888888
# [14:34] <RyanVM> (and direct landing on m-c, *ahem*)
# [14:35] * Ms2ger tries to look guilty
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# [14:36] <NeilAway> boy, that escalated quickly
# [14:36] <NeilAway> trunk is supposed to compile with vc2012 right?
# [14:36] <RyanVM> yep
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# [14:40] <NeilAway> anyone know why I get unresolved external symbol _malloc_usable_size ?
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# [14:42] <RyanVM> Yoric: ping
# [14:42] <Yoric> RyanVM: What have I done?
# [14:42] <Yoric> (and pong, by the way)
# [14:42] <RyanVM> Yoric: bug 845190 is getting frequent again :(
# [14:42] <Yoric> Yes.
# [14:42] <Yoric> I have seen.
# [14:42] <Yoric> I have an experimental fix, I'm waiting for jlebar|away to approve it :)
# [14:43] <Yoric> But feel free to deactivate the test in the meantime.
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# [14:43] <Yoric> (I can do it, if you prefer)
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# [14:43] <Yoric> I am confident that these test failures do not mirror any real world condition, as they require you to quit the process just after having launched it.
# [14:43] <RyanVM> Yoric: I'll disable it, thanks
# [14:43] <Yoric> Thanks.
# [14:44] <NeilAway> doesn't that symbol live in mozglue.lib?
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# [14:46] <Ms2ger> Can we kill nsSupportsHashtable already?
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# [14:47] <tbsaunde> Ms2ger: do you feel like killing the remaining usage?
# [14:47] <Ms2ger> Not particularly...
# [14:47] <tbsaunde> also why does it particularly offend you today?
# [14:48] <Ms2ger> Its Get() returns an addrefed raw pointer
# [14:48] <tbsaunde> ah
# [14:48] <Ms2ger> (There seem to be about 6 left...)
# [14:48] * Ms2ger puts it on his todo list for a rainy day
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# [14:50] <tbsaunde> Ms2ger: sounds about right
# [14:51] <NeilAway> Ms2ger: why not just correct the return type of Get() ?
# [14:51] <Gijs> RyanVM: so... on a totally different topic... I have a crashfix, the testcase for which triggers assertions on debug. I will try and fix those separately, but for the moment, I'm wondering if/how/where I can adjust the expected number of assertions for the crashtest so that I can at least land the crashfix (+ tests)
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# [14:51] <NeilAway> ok, so expandlibs_exec.py is deleting mozglue.lib from the command line :s
# [14:51] <RyanVM> Gijs: http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/dom/base/crashtests/crashtests.list#24
# [14:52] <RyanVM> Gijs: assuming it hits all platforms
# [14:52] <Ms2ger> NeilAway, I don't much care for refactoring code that nobody uses :)
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# [14:52] <Gijs> RyanVM: yeah, does. Thanks! :)
# [14:52] <RyanVM> Gijs: and obviously the range is optional
# [14:52] <RyanVM> i.e. asserts(2)
# [14:52] <Gijs> cool, that sounds like it'll work.
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# [15:14] <Gijs> How do I do a bugzilla quicksearch on summaries containing a string rather than a word? The quicksearch docs say it does that by default, but AFAICT that's not true. :s
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# [15:15] <froydnj> argh, the -Wunused-but-set-variable warnings
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# [15:19] <till> Gijs: quotes work for me
# [15:20] <Gijs> till: OK, thanks
# [15:20] <till> np
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# [15:55] <Ms2ger> Why would someone send an email at 12:26PM with a warning that I should not share it before 12PM?
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# [15:55] <Callek> Ms2ger: your time conversions are wrong
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# [15:55] <ewong> timezones ftw
# [15:55] <ewong> ;P
# [15:55] <Callek> :-)
# [15:56] <Ms2ger> Callek, thunderbird's time conversions, then :)
# [15:56] <gabor> just in case you had a time machine ofc...
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# [15:57] <nigelb> Ms2ger: hah, I thought that too.
# [15:57] <nigelb> I wonder if there is a trust issue after the thunderbird issue
# [15:57] <Pike> Ms2ger: fwiw, the mail I got was composed at 10:39
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# [15:59] <Ms2ger> Mine said "Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2013 04:26:57 -0600"
# [15:59] <Ms2ger> And CEST is +2
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# [15:59] <nigelb> Pike: composed vs sent? :)
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# [16:00] <Pike> nigelb: nope. everyone@m.o vs mozillians distribution, I guess
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# [16:00] <nigelb> aha.
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# [16:00] <nigelb> See my point about trust issue :)
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# [16:00] <Pike> kinda lame if we had split that in pre and post 12 distributions on purpose, and not adjusted the message
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# [16:01] <Ms2ger> Also, yay, yammer
# [16:04] <Gijs> NeilAway: ping
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# [16:07] <Gijs> nigelb: "the thunderbird issue" ?
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# [16:07] <nigelb> Gijs: um, when we announced about thunderbird support being killed, the email was sent out the night before with instructions not to share until the next day.
# [16:08] <nigelb> And then someone pastebin'd it.
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# [16:08] <Gijs> Ah.
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# [16:09] <RyanVM|brb> I always thought it was kind of naive to say "please don't share this yet"
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# [16:13] <Ms2ger> RyanVM|brb, the idea was that Mozillians are trustworthy
# [16:14] <Manuela> hi guys! :) can please anybody help me? I have a question regarding a browser chrome test, and more specifically about memory cache reports in a private window
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# [16:15] <Gijs> Manuela: ehsan/jdm are probably your best bets, and I believe they're in Canada, where today is a public holiday. You might have more luck tomorrow.
# [16:16] <Manuela> thanks Gijs ! :)
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# [16:17] <Manuela> but still, if anyone knows how to work with cache entries from "about:cache", please let me know :)
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# [16:21] <NeilAway> Gijs: pong
# [16:22] <Gijs> NeilAway: regarding your memoserv message wrt jar.mn and clobbers... this doesn't make sense to me. :)
# [16:22] <Gijs> NeilAway: if I'm in a C++ file, and I change #include foo.h to #include bar.h, I don't need to clobber.
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# [16:22] <Gijs> NeilAway: how is jar.mn different when I do: foo.png (x.png) vs. foo.png (y.png) ?
# [16:23] <Gijs> the jar.mn timestamp will be updated, that should take care of it. :s
# [16:23] <NeilAway> Gijs: because we don't track dependencies for chrome files
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# [16:23] <Gijs> That's very sad.
# [16:23] <Gijs> I guess if we did, that'd make the build system a lot slower or something?
# [16:23] <NeilAway> Gijs: well, the destination file has the same timestamp as the source (because it's just linked) so we've got no other timestamp to compare with
# [16:24] <Gijs> NeilAway: in this case, It could check whether the destination and source are still correctly linked?
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# [16:24] <Gijs> That is, it should realize that foo.png is linked to x.png rather than y.png
# [16:25] <NeilAway> Gijs: well, historically it never did
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# [16:26] <NeilAway> Gijs: you'd have to ensure that if you make a copy instead (objdir on different disk in windows) that you don't needlessly copy of course
# [16:27] <Gijs> ... this is why we can't have nice things.
# [16:27] <Gijs> NeilAway: but seriously, thanks for the background info, that's helpful at least to understand why it doesn't 'just work'.
# [16:28] <Gijs> still, sadfaces that our build system doesn't just do the right thing.
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# [16:31] <NeilAway> Gijs: well, we don't even try to do proper dependencies for preprocessed files, we just preprocess them every time just in case :s
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# [16:32] <Gijs> Ah.
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# [16:40] <froydnj> hm, MOZ_GOOGLE_API_KEY, we do not get along
# [16:41] <@khuey> you may need to pull
# [16:41] <@khuey> RyanVM: ^
# [16:41] <froydnj> I just pulled this morning!
# [16:42] <froydnj> khuey: I need the topmost push on mc (4ffb23062b3b, not 9af8dd6825dc)?
# [16:42] <Ms2ger> You need the merge from birch
# [16:43] <RyanVM> yeah, I busted and fixed m-c this morning
# [16:43] <RyanVM> sorry about that
# [16:43] <RyanVM> I blame Ms2ger
# [16:43] <Ms2ger> Yeah, all my fault
# [16:43] <Ms2ger> And gps
# [16:43] <@khuey> off with his head
# [16:45] * froydnj pulls again, rebuilds
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# [16:48] <karolyi> hi, can i overlay js files in the chrome.manifest file?
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# [16:49] * froydnj notices all the m-c red, impressed that the official builds broke along with home-builds
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# [16:51] <Bas> Local windows builds appear to be failing inside gtest stuff :s
# [16:51] <Bas> Some jsfriendapi.h errors.
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# [16:55] <glosoli> Just thought out of curiosity, what's the main reason for Mozilla not styling ugly checkbox, select elements and etc ?
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# [16:56] <RyanVM> froydnj: yay nightly-only bustage
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# [16:57] <froydnj> RyanVM: bustage never sleeps
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# [17:03] <jwir3> mounir: ping?
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# [17:04] <philor> not from the one thing in the range with "telemetry" in the commit message, though
# [17:05] <_n_> hi. What's the exact meaning behind "At the moment due to bugs or on purpose it's impossible to open an IndexedDB database from a Web App." on https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/IndexedDB/Basic_Concepts_Behind_IndexedDB ?
# [17:05] <_n_> cc khuey, bent
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# [17:07] <RyanVM> philor: I'm assuming the m-c bustage is what you filed that bug over the weekend about?
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# [17:07] <RyanVM> (sorry, was only skimming bugmail while I was out)
# [17:07] <RyanVM> philor: gonna need to get that bumped in priority
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# [17:08] <RyanVM> victorporof: ping
# [17:08] <victorporof> RyanVM: pong
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# [17:09] <RyanVM> your aurora push isn't looking promising
# [17:09] <victorporof> just saw that :(
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# [17:09] <victorporof> RyanVM: it was green on try a few days ago when I tested. I'll back out
# [17:09] <RyanVM> philor: I'm going to (finally) file the B2G automation timeouts and try to get some action on that
# [17:10] <philor> heh, good luck with that
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# [17:10] <victorporof> RyanVM: who do I a=? for a backout?
# [17:11] <RyanVM> a=bustage is fine
# [17:11] <victorporof> ok, thanks
# [17:11] <RyanVM> philor: we shall see
# [17:12] <RyanVM> froydnj: ping
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# [17:13] <froydnj> RyanVM: pong
# [17:13] <RyanVM> froydnj: is gps the module owner for telemetry?
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# [17:14] <froydnj> RyanVM: I think technically taras is, but I can answer questions and whatnot
# [17:14] <Ms2ger> Aren't we supposed to have a list of module owners somewhere?
# [17:14] <RyanVM> Ms2ger: unfortunately, "Toolkit" is on its own
# [17:14] <RyanVM> froydnj: I'm trying to raise some hell about bug 888765
# [17:14] * Ms2ger chants Disable!
# [17:15] * froydnj looks
# [17:15] * @gavin looks too
# [17:15] <@gavin> we should switch that to the channel-specific build defines
# [17:16] <@gavin> that'll make the failure show up all the time, which should get it fixed! :)
# [17:16] <RyanVM> i'm strongly considering closing m-c until this is fixed
# [17:16] <Ms2ger> I landed this morning
# [17:16] <@gavin> I'm going to file that bug
# [17:16] <Ms2ger> Close away
# [17:16] <RyanVM> (which is what we did the last time this happened)
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# [17:18] <froydnj> there is so much orange on philor's example pushes that I don't understand what they're supposed to be showing
# [17:18] <philor> the orange
# [17:19] <froydnj> but e.g. https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Try&rev=35e02f18786b has *more* orange than https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Try&rev=845a7ce7ddb0, and AIUI, the former push is supposed to have less
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# [17:20] <philor> yeah, one was supposed to have none, but neither one did
# [17:20] <philor> and it's intermittent, that's why the first time it hit m-c, I just retriggered my way to green
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# [17:21] <froydnj> gavin: we don't have a channel-specific define for aurora, according to that wiki page?
# [17:21] <@gavin> froydnj: telemetry only cares about nightly+aurora, right?
# [17:21] <@gavin> so it could use #ifndef RELEASE_BUILD
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# [17:22] <froydnj> gavin: true
# [17:23] <@gavin> looks like it needs a global define though, so I'll just adjust configure
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# [17:25] <froydnj> looks like configure.in already sets RELEASE_BUILD appropriately?
# [17:25] <@gavin> yes
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# [17:25] <@gavin> froydnj: I mean http://pastebin.mozilla.org/2583131
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# [17:25] <philor> hits talos and the reftest harness, but not mochitest? do we have a "seriously, telemetry, stfu!" pref set for the mochitest harness that isn't set for the others?
# [17:26] <froydnj> no, we don't
# [17:26] <philor> sort of a cop-out, knowing that we have a 330+ second startup hang and just avoiding testing it, but telemetry would surely tell us that we were shipping a 330+ second startup hang
# [17:27] <froydnj> gavin: aha
# [17:28] * Ms2ger wonders what dist/public is
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# [17:31] <philor> mochitest, android reftests and b2g reftests set ("toolkit.telemetry.prompted", 999)
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# [17:31] <philor> and the same for toolkit.telemetry.notifiedOptOut
# [17:32] <Callek> gavin: telemetry is useful on the local computer even if its not sending data all the time
# [17:32] <philor> talos and nonremote reftests do not
# [17:32] <Callek> gavin: I for one use it for local mem graphs, and CC times
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# [17:32] <Callek> (of course I don't care if it sends data for my nightly or aurora)
# [17:33] <Callek> (but it sure should send data for release imo)
# [17:33] <philor> unless those two started using testing/profiles/prefs_general.js while I wasn't looking
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# [17:33] <@gavin> Callek: don't see how that's relevant
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# [17:37] <Callek> gavin: did I misread, or were you just advocating disabling telemetry from even building/being a part of the build/UI on some channels?
# [17:38] <@gavin> you misread
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# [18:40] <jlebar|away> Yoric: You're waiting on me to review something?
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# [18:43] <jlebar> Yoric: I don't see it in my review queue, so if there's something you'd like me to look at, feel free to ping me.
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# [18:47] <Gijs> On my Linux VM, an 'hg pull -u' gives: "abort: error: no such file or directory"
# [18:47] <Gijs> What gives?
# [18:48] <jlebar> Gijs: does pwd work?
# [18:48] <Callek> and if so |hg verify| ?
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# [18:49] <Gijs> jlebar: yes. Also, I don't get the customary "pulling from... " or "searching for changes" messages, just that error.
# [18:49] * Gijs pokes hg verify
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# [18:54] <Gijs> hg verify is fine, but I just realized the VM can't connect to the web, which explains a lot (although that is a shitty error message for that case, tbh)
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# [18:54] <Gijs> it looks like the system clock doesn't like me having changed timezones inbetween saving it and restoring it.
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# [18:56] <nemo> aww. crash server down :(
# [18:56] <nemo> when do we get it back?
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# [19:08] <Mossop> philor: How do we know that bug 888765 is telemetry?
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# [19:10] <Mossop> RyanVM: ^^
# [19:11] <abr> ryanvm / philor / edmorely -- I never could get Bug 885640 to repro locally (after hundreds of thousands of iterations), but I did find a shutdown flaw that is plausibly its root cause. Based on this hunch, I've landed a patch on m-i that I *think* should make the problem go away, but without a local repro, I can't do anything to verify. So, if you see any more crashes on sdp_unittests after b6d569b7cc8c lands, please let me know.
# [19:11] <RyanVM> abr: thanks :)
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# [19:12] <philor> Mossop: not sure we will until my most recent try push, with PGO but without telemetry's misuse of MOZ_UPDATE_CHANNEL, finishes and is green
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# [19:14] <philor> could be anything abusing MOZ_UPDATE_CHANNEL == 'nightly', dunno if anyone has stirred themselves to search for other possible cases
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# [19:20] <@gavin> I was going to file bugs for all the cases I think we should fix of bad uses of MOZ_UPDATE_CHANNEL
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# [19:22] <jorendorff> hey - what's the procedure for a contributor to get temporary access to a Try server?
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# [19:23] <dholbert> jorendorff, what do you mean "to a Try server"?
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# [19:23] <dholbert> jorendorff, just TryServer push access?
# [19:23] <jorendorff> dholbert: no, not push access, sorry. access for troubleshooting. we've got a windows-only linker error
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# [19:24] <jorendorff> dholbert: I think we can troubleshoot it without direct access, but for future reference...?
# [19:24] <jorendorff> if it makes things more convenient you could assume the contributor in question was me
# [19:24] <dholbert> jorendorff, there is a way to request access to a releng build machine
# [19:24] <dholbert> I don't recall what it is
# [19:24] <jorendorff> yeah, same here :)
# [19:24] <dholbert> but a releng person could tell you :)
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# [19:25] <dholbert> perhaps Callek|buildduty knows
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# [19:26] <Callek|buildduty> never!
# [19:26] <Callek|buildduty> I only pretend to know, with conviction
# [19:26] <Callek|buildduty> but first! whats the question?
# [19:26] <dholbert> jorendorff wants to reserve a windows build machine for troubleshooting a build issue
# [19:26] <Callek|buildduty> ah-ha....
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# [19:26] <dholbert> (& get remote access to it)
# [19:26] <jorendorff> it's to do with bug 717379
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# [19:28] <Callek|buildduty> jorendorff: file a bug, similar to https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=870786 and we'll take care of it
# [19:29] <Callek|buildduty> infact ping me in #releng the bug number and I can probably get most of it taken care of within the next few hours!
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# [19:29] <@ted> we passed bug 888888
# [19:30] <@khuey> woo
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# [19:31] <Callek|buildduty> ted: does that mean I should submit my bug 900000 guess to gerv?
# [19:32] <@ted> < 20k bugs to go, heh
# [19:33] <@khuey> is gerv running a 900k contest?
# [19:33] <@khuey> I don't remember seeing a psot
# [19:33] <@khuey> *post
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# [19:34] <Callek|buildduty> khuey: I didn't see one either to memory
# [19:35] <Callek|buildduty> but he's run one for ever 100k for as long as I can remember
# [19:35] <Callek|buildduty> though they are indeed much more common these days
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# [19:48] <Saji> Hello! I am a telecommunications student from Barcelona with a passion for building things, in love with the Mozilla mission and wishing to do some good. I am thinking about doing my final protect with Mozilla so I can use my college time to get involved and collaborate. Anybody knows who/where I could ask?
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# [19:49] <padenot> Saji: come to #media if you want to do webRTC stuff
# [19:51] <mib_3bivc3> Hi! Where I can see documentation about function getTargetFile?
# [19:52] <jorendorff> Callek|buildduty: i will do so, if windows isn't fixed by my next try run
# [19:52] <jorendorff> thanks!
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# [19:53] <Jesse> bz: why does setting location= to a hash in about:srcdoc change the non-fragment part of the url? data:text/html,<iframe srcdoc="<script>location=String.fromCharCode(35)+'a';</script>"></iframe>
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# [19:59] <froydnj> dougt++
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# [19:59] <dougt> necko bug?
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# [20:00] <froydnj> bug 888268, networking -> dom -> networking
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# [20:00] <dougt> yeah… i love it.
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# [20:00] <dougt> i think patrick is just trolling me.
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# [20:01] <froydnj> putting stuff in your patches to see if your reviewer is paying attention is a great idea
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# [20:14] <gcp> lsblakk: ping
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# [20:19] <dzbarsky> !seen bent
# [20:19] <firebot> I've never seen a 'bent', sorry.
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# [20:25] * NeilAway sighs
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# [20:26] <NeilAway> default is for less not to wrap? whose idea was that
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# [20:34] <@khuey> !seen bent
# [20:34] <firebot> I've never seen a 'bent', sorry.
# [20:34] <@khuey> wtf?
# [20:34] <mccr8> khuey: somebody was saying firebot reset over the weekend
# [20:34] <Gijs> yeah, something happened to firebot.
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# [20:35] <Gijs> It's also duplicating its bug change announcements in #firefox
# [20:35] <@khuey> firebot: are you sick?
# [20:35] <firebot> khuey: Sorry, I've no idea what 'are you sick' might be.
# [20:36] <NeilAway> bah, c-c build system is very fragile right now :s
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# [20:41] <grobinson> question about nsDocument.cpp:4298
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# [20:41] <grobinson> is there any situation in which SetScriptGlobalObject is called without a window?
# [20:41] <grobinson> comments says "remember the pointer to our window (or lack thereof)"
# [20:41] <firebot> khuey: *cough* *cough*
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# [20:44] <RyanVM> jimm: ping
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# [20:45] <gcp> sync settings in windows nightly are broken - known bug?
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# [20:48] <gcp> huu, what component should that bug go under? (sync ui)
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# [20:51] <jimm> RyanVM: yo!
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# [20:51] <RyanVM> jimm: you've got Werror bustage on inbound
# [20:51] <jimm> ahhh
# [20:51] <RyanVM> https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getParsedLog.php?id=24793048&tree=Mozilla-Inbound
# [20:52] * corey|away is now known as corey
# [20:52] <Ms2ger> Bonsoir
# [20:52] <jimm> RyanVM: I pushed to try, but then made a couple edits. mind backing it out? I'll check it over and push to try again.
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# [20:53] <RyanVM> sure
# [20:53] <Ms2ger> jimm, verrry dangerous thing to do :)
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# [20:54] <jimm> yeah yeah yeah
# [20:55] <jimm> error: field 'mDisplayOnMouseMove' will be initialized after field 'mHScrollbarHovered' [-Werror,-Wreorder]
# [20:55] <jimm> bah
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# [20:55] <RyanVM> I'd have let you push a fix :P
# [20:56] <jimm> that's alright
# [20:56] <mstange> jimm: I have a small request before you reland
# [20:56] <jimm> sure
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# [20:57] <mstange> jimm: I don't like the aIsTeardown argument
# [20:57] * simone|away is now known as simone
# [20:57] <mstange> jimm: if you could instead just not call StopListeningForScrollAreaEvents in the cases where you don't want it to do anything, I think that would be clearer
# [20:57] <mstange> if you know what I mean
# [20:57] <mstange> in other words, move the conditions outside
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# [20:58] <mstange> jimm: also, the fact that StopListeningForScrollbarEvents now checks mListeningForScrollAreaEvents confuses me
# [21:00] <jimm> msucan: oh, that should be mListeningForScrollbarEvents
# [21:00] <jimm> :)
# [21:00] <jimm> mstange: ^
# [21:00] <mstange> ok, that sounds better :)
# [21:00] <jimm> good thing it got backed out.
# [21:01] <jimm> mstange: so, re aIsTeardown, are you cool with that check being in StopListeningForEvents?
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# [21:02] <mstange> jimm: I think StopListeningForEvents(false); should become StopListeningForScrollbarEvents(); if (!mDisplaysOnMouseMove) {StopListeningForScrollAreaEvents();}
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# [21:02] <mstange> jimm: and StopListeningForEvents(true); should become StopListeningForScrollbarEvents(); StopListeningForScrollAreaEvents();
# [21:02] <jimm> ah ok, get rid of StopListeningForEvents
# [21:02] <mstange> right
# [21:03] <mstange> I think that would be clearer
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# [21:03] <mstange> maybe also get rid of StartListeningForEvents
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# [21:03] <mstange> for symmetry ;)
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# [21:04] <@smaug> mstange!
# [21:04] <mstange> smaug!
# [21:05] <@smaug> haven't seen you here lately
# [21:05] <mstange> yeah
# [21:05] <mstange> I was in IRC hibernation mode
# [21:05] <mstange> I'm back :(
# [21:05] <@ted> mstange: did we hire you?
# [21:05] <mstange> oh
# [21:05] <mstange> back :)
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# [21:05] <mstange> ted: yes you did!
# [21:06] <@ted> hooray!
# [21:06] <mstange> since june 3rd
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# [21:12] <NeilAway> now my build wants to rebuild the world :s
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# [21:12] <philor> Mossop: but yeah, several hours later, https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Try&rev=f5efb2ec7814 says that we only hit it when MOZ_TELEMETRY_ON_BY_DEFAULT
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# [21:15] <Mossop> philor: Wonder how much screaming there would be if we just turned that off for now...
# [21:16] <philor> Mossop: got a tree you can push to try from, and a memory of where reftests and talos set prefs?
# [21:16] * Ms2ger screams
# [21:16] <Ms2ger> What are we screaming about?
# [21:17] <Ms2ger> *aboot
# [21:17] <philor> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=888765#c6 - I think setting those two prefs that mochitests set would sweep it under the covers, but I won't have a tree for several hours, and it requires PGO to repro so the try push takes several hours
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# [21:18] <Mossop> I have no idea about reftests and talos tests :(
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# [21:19] <philor> http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/layout/tools/reftest/bootstrap.js#7 and http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/layout/tools/reftest/reftest-cmdline.js#70 for reftests
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# [21:28] <till> bsmedberg: ping
# [21:28] <@bsmedberg> till: pong
# [21:29] <till> bsmedberg: I just discovered that I can update status board posts
# [21:29] <till> bsmedberg: which is awesome
# [21:29] <till> bsmedberg: can you tell me how long I can do that?
# [21:29] <@bsmedberg> till: yeah, any update on the same day is counted as the same post
# [21:29] <till> bsmedberg: ah, ok
# [21:29] <@bsmedberg> I think...
# [21:29] <@bsmedberg> it's probably "in whatever timezone the dreamhost server is"
# [21:30] <till> bsmedberg: I was kinda hoping it would work for the entire week so I could just post stuff as I go, but same day is pretty cool, already
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# [21:30] <till> heh
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# [21:33] <smacleod> Can someone please PM me the "Spamfilter password" for http://benjamin.smedbergs.us/weekly-updates.fcgi/signup
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# [21:34] <@gavin> (done)
# [21:34] <smacleod> ty
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# [21:35] <philor> can someone tell it that no matter how many times it reminds me, I'm not going to update my status?
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# [21:36] <philor> that one from February 2010 is just fine!
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# [21:37] <@bsmedberg> philor: just turn off reminders in your prefs
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# [21:39] <philor> bsmedberg: thanks! you'd think over the course of three years I'd be smart enough to look at whether prefs even existed, but apparently you'd be wrong
# [21:39] <@bsmedberg> heh
# [21:39] <Ms2ger> It's not like this is a place with too many prefs, like Mozilla
# [21:39] <@bsmedberg> many people miss the fact that they can create their own groups
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# [21:42] <philor> Mossop: I think you're right, and we should just put a stake in MOZ_TELEMETRY_ON_BY_DEFAULT's heart, since talos prefs aren't in-tree, so testing on try is a mild PITA and actually updating is a burning PITA
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# [21:53] <gal007> Hi people! Does anyone know how to decode urls? I really have a problem trying to convert http://es.m.qrwp.org/Vaca_%25C3%25B1ata to http://es.m.qrwp.org/Vaca_ñata So I tryed a lot of things but none works: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/2583676
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# [21:54] <corey> wonder why I'm recompiling everything in platform (dom, ipc, ...) after just making changes in style. perhaps time for a clobber.
# [21:54] <Ms2ger> What did you change in style?
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# [21:56] <mstange> gal007: the first uri is encoded twice, note that the percents turned into %25
# [21:56] <TheOne> wow, a buggy aurora build for the first time since I can't even remember
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# [21:56] <mstange> TheOne: what kind of bug?
# [21:57] <TheOne> mstange: it just hangs
# [21:57] <TheOne> on page load
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# [21:57] <mstange> oh
# [21:57] <TheOne> but that build might be a day or two old
# [21:57] <TheOne> can't check right now..
# [21:57] <corey> Ms2ger: This time, just nsStyleStruct.h (though I've been juggling a few patches in there). I'd be surprised if seemingly everything depends on that, though that's possible.
# [21:59] <Ms2ger> corey, nsIFrame.h depends on it, and that's included in some 140 files :)
# [21:59] <corey> hmm, maybe that's all.
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# [21:59] <TheOne> mstange: looks like it's gone in today's build
# [22:00] <mstange> okay
# [22:00] <mstange> I have a crash fix to land on aurora, I wondered whether that was what you saw
# [22:00] <TheOne> no crash
# [22:00] <mstange> ok
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# [22:03] <corey> yup, looks like changes I make to that file better be worth a 20min build :P
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# [22:05] <mjh563> gal007: it's double encoded, so you need to call decodeURI on it twice
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# [22:08] <mjh563> gal007: decodeURI(decodeURI("http://es.m.qrwp.org/Vaca_%25C3%25B1ata"))
# [22:09] <gal007> mjh563 I did it! There was a probem with bootstrap encoding!
# [22:09] <gal007> Thanks a lot!
# [22:09] <gal007> Guest1 helped me!
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# [22:17] <mounir> jwir3: pong (I missed your ping earlier, sorry)
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# [22:17] <spohl> is it possible to set an attribute that's equivalent to scrollbar:not([active="true"]),
# [22:17] <spohl> scrollbar[disabled="true"] {
# [22:17] <spohl> visibility: hidden;
# [22:17] <spohl> } in CSS via nsIContent::SetAttr? Or do I need to detect when the scrollbar becomes active/inactive and enabled/disabled and set/unset the attribute each time?
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# [22:25] <Gijs> What would cause: checking for gtk+-2.0 >= 2.10.0 gtk+-unix-print-2.0 glib-2.0 gobject-2.0 gdk-x11-2.0... Package gtk+-2.0 was not found in the pkg-config search path. Perhaps you should add the directory containing `gtk+-2.0.pc' to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable No package 'gtk+-2.0' found Package gtk+-unix-print-2.0 was not found in the pkg-config search path. Perhaps you should...
# [22:25] <Gijs> ...add the directory containing `gtk+-unix-print-2.0.pc' to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable No package 'gtk+-unix-print-2.0' found Package glib-2.0 was not found in the pkg-config search path. Perhaps you should add the directory containing `glib-2.0.pc' to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable No package 'glib-2.0' found Package gobject-2.0 was not found in the pkg-config search...
# [22:25] <Gijs> ...path. Perhaps you should add the directory containing `gobject-2.0.pc' to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable No package 'gobject-2.0' found Package gdk-x11-2.0 was not found in the pkg-config search path. Perhaps you should add the directory containing `gdk-x11-2.0.pc' to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable No package 'gdk-x11-2.0' found
# [22:25] <Gijs> ... on a try push (also, argh, sorry, didn't realize it was that long... silly non-wrapping build logs :( )
# [22:26] <philor> badslave?
# [22:26] <@gavin> push of old code from before a build config change?
# [22:27] <@gavin> (that's from jared's push of old ux code, right?)
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# [22:28] <philor> mmm, March
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# [22:30] <Gijs> gavin: yes.
# [22:30] <Gijs> gavin: still, it doesn't make sense to me that there's literally no gtk2 on the system. :s
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# [22:30] <Gijs> This push is from about halfway through April.
# [22:30] <Gijs> (I mean, the code - the push was just now, I guess)
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# [22:33] <philor> Gijs: your mozconfig isn't including http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/build/unix/mozconfig.linux32 (which doesn't exist for you, anyway), so you're trying to build linux32 on a linux64 buildslave without actually saying that's what you're trying to do
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# [22:34] <Gijs> philor: fascinating. Do we still have linux32 build slaves or is the 32 bit version of this push never going to work?
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# [22:35] <eeejay> anyone know what is up with mozSettings being null in nightly, no matter what pref i set
# [22:36] <philor> Gijs: I'd expect that just copy-pasting that into the relevant mozconfig would work, I don't think there was anything more in-tree than the mozconfigs involved in the switch
# [22:36] <Gijs> OK. But that push itself isn't salvageable, as far as 32-bit is concerned, I take it?
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# [22:36] <philor> right
# [22:37] <Gijs> OK, good to know.
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# [22:42] <mihneadb> I'm working on having the crashreporter xpcshell tests use the profile dir to store the minidump and I got them all to work except for the one in unit_ipc. That one says MINIDUMP_STACKWALK not set. Any ideas?
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# [22:45] * dholbert reflexively suspects mihneadb should ask ted, because it's crashreporter-related
# [22:45] <mihneadb> dholbert: I pinged him, he is busy, I was hoping someone else might know :)
# [22:46] <mihneadb> thanks!
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# [22:46] <dholbert> np :) good luck
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# [22:57] <@dbaron> so what are we supposed to do to build on Ubuntu 12.04 with this new gstreamer requirement?
# [22:58] <@dbaron> I suppose --disable-gstreamer should work
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# [23:01] <dholbert> dbaron, I'm on Ubuntu 12.10, and I have libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev and libgstreamer0.10-dev which seem to work (though I'm not 100% sure that there aren't other requirements as well)
# [23:01] <@dbaron> on 12.04 it's complaining about the version checks
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# [23:02] <dholbert> (actually yeah, it looks like mach bootstrap installs exactly those packages on Debian-based systems)
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# [23:02] <dholbert> (in https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=765640&action=diff )
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# [23:04] <dholbert> dbaron, (https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=794282#c19 is a bit old, but suggests that we weren't going to rely on anything newer than what was available in 12.04)
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# [23:07] <@dbaron> dholbert, ah, the error message made it look like it failed the version check rather than failing the existence check
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# [23:08] <dholbert> gotcha
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# Session Close: Mon Jul 01 23:08:40 2013
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# Session Start: Mon Jul 01 23:08:40 2013
# Session Ident: #developers
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# [23:09] * Topic is 'Next uplift 5 August || Want to help? See #introduction || http://logbot.glob.com.au/?c=developers'
# [23:09] * Set by Ms2ger on Mon Jun 24 19:44:34
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# [23:30] <jorendorff> I made changes to js/src/configure.in here: https://hg.mozilla.org/try/rev/ffa098bed7ab#l1.13
# [23:30] <jorendorff> and pushed to try server,
# [23:30] <jorendorff> but they don't show up in the build log here: https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getParsedLog.php?id=24794396&tree=Try&full=1
# [23:31] <jorendorff> What am I doing wrong? Does that kind of test just not run on Windows?
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# [23:32] <@gavin> jorendorff: AC_CHECK_FUNCS / AC_CACHE_CHECK don't seem to produce output in general?
# [23:33] <@gavin> or at least not all the time
# [23:34] <jorendorff> huh
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# [23:38] <jorendorff> there is still the small matter of it not working...
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# [23:42] <@dbaron> jorendorff, there's a huge chunk of configure.in that doesn't run on windows
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# [23:45] * jorendorff sees SKIP_LIBRARY_CHECKS
# [23:45] * Quits: b10n1k (j0ni@moz-38E39137.home.otenet.gr) (Ping timeout)
# [23:46] <jorendorff> oh, it's SKIP_COMPILER_CHECKS
# [23:46] * sfosters is now known as sfoster
# [23:47] * Quits: jrmuizel (jrmuizel@moz-6E78BC7C.cpe.teksavvy.com) (Client exited)
# [23:47] <jorendorff> dbaron: thanks.
# [23:47] <jorendorff> this is sad
# [23:48] * ctalbert|mtg is now known as ctalbert
# [23:49] * Joins: roc (chatzilla@E2F7352.56080C53.97BBD552.IP)
# [23:49] * ChanServ sets mode: +o roc
# [23:49] * Joins: jib (Jan-Ivar@moz-875D780C.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
# [23:50] * Quits: seth (seth@2557E599.66715431.D25A875A.IP) (Input/output error)
# [23:50] * Joins: brendan (brendaneic@2557E599.66715431.D25A875A.IP)
# [23:51] * philor is now known as philor|away
# [23:51] <@roc> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/chrome-27-firefox-21-opera-next,3534-12.html
# [23:51] * Joins: bsmith (bsmith@43CB6079.66715431.D25A875A.IP)
# [23:52] <@roc> "FF just always feels slow to me, and not just on the startup. Add to that the horrible memory management ( at least the version I was forced to use two years ago at work, )"
# [23:52] <@roc> sigh
# [23:52] <till> :(
# [23:54] <jesup> Perceptions stick... :-(
# [23:54] <@roc> yeah
# [23:54] * Quits: ehugg (ehugg@moz-3BC93E74.tukw.qwest.net) (Quit: ehugg)
# [23:55] <@roc> till: so, we need to land GGC two years ago, OK?
# [23:55] <till> roc: coming right up
# [23:55] <jesup> OTOH, the result of the test was good!
# [23:55] <till> oh wait
# [23:55] <fabrice> also, you need to stop reading comments
# [23:55] * Quits: nccuong (Instantbir@moz-7C9C3C02.fbx.proxad.net) (Quit: nccuong)
# [23:55] <till> fabrice: true
# [23:55] <@roc> people say there is no silver bullet, but of course there is: a DeLorean with a flux capacitor
# [23:56] * till shudders, thinking about what HN will make of this
# [23:56] <till> roc++
# [23:57] * Quits: fredw (fredw@moz-B9C110E2.fbx.proxad.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [23:57] <@roc> yeah I was linking for the test results more than the comments. I mean, the test results are almost certainly as bogus as always, but it's nice to have them bogus in our direction
# [23:57] <till> that review, however, is pretty nice
# [23:57] <@gavin> they're probably not entirely bogus
# [23:57] <till> indeed, yes
# [23:57] <jesup> till: HN Headline: Firefox beats Chrome on speed; Google makes offer to buy Firefox ;-) Oh, wait that's Headline News's headline, not Hacker News's :-) ;-)
# [23:57] <@gavin> we have been working on some of these things :)
# [23:57] * Quits: brendan (brendaneic@2557E599.66715431.D25A875A.IP) (Quit: brendan)
# [23:58] <jesup> Betcha MazeTest is still in there.....
# [23:58] <till> jesup: didn't they buy us years ago and have controlled our every move ever since?
# [23:58] * jesup hasn't looked
# [23:59] <till> "It's as if Mozilla knew just where to strike"
# [23:59] <till> as in "It's as if Mozilla worked on known weaknesses"
# [23:59] * corey is now known as corey|away
# [23:59] <@roc> "it's as if Mozilla weren't complete dumbasses"?
# Session Close: Tue Jul 02 00:00:00 2013

The end :)