/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2007-05-24 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu May 24 00:00:00 2007
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  7. # [00:20] <hyatt> Hixie: ping
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  10. # [00:40] <Hixie> hyatt: yo
  11. # [00:40] <hyatt> Hixie: nvm answered my own question
  12. # [00:41] <Hixie> k
  13. # [01:04] <hyatt> Hixie: this error reporting i hooked up is catching all our mistakes lol
  14. # [01:04] <hyatt> where we're reporting errors when we shouldn't etc.
  15. # [01:04] <mjs> Firefox is doing really weird stuff with parsing script elements
  16. # [01:04] <mjs> it is boggling my mind
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  20. # [01:29] <Hixie> hyatt: hehe
  21. # [01:29] <Hixie> mjs: oh?
  22. # [01:29] <Hixie> mjs: trunk? or 2.0?
  23. # [01:30] <hyatt> Hixie: 2.0
  24. # [01:30] <hyatt> Hixie: i had to put our <script /> quirk back in
  25. # [01:30] <hyatt> Hixie: sad
  26. # [01:30] <hyatt> Hixie: web sites are just too stupid
  27. # [01:30] <Hixie> firefox removed it
  28. # [01:30] <Hixie> on trunk
  29. # [01:30] <hyatt> Hixie: because both ffx and safari will allow <script .... />
  30. # [01:30] <Hixie> and nobody else does it
  31. # [01:30] <Hixie> for the love of god don't put that back
  32. # [01:30] <hyatt> Hixie: ffx will break then
  33. # [01:30] <mjs> Hixie: in Firefox it seems to work because they appear to do reparsing for unclosed scripts with external src
  34. # [01:31] <hyatt> Hixie: no choice.... we have blank sites :(
  35. # [01:31] <Hixie> if browsers do this differently from each other we'll have a security nightmare
  36. # [01:31] <hyatt> Hixie: we may be able to change if ffx stops working with those sites
  37. # [01:31] <hyatt> Hixie: but in general ffx3's compat is way lower than ffx2
  38. # [01:31] <hyatt> Hixie: so saying ffx3 does something is a poor argument for doing it
  39. # [01:31] <Hixie> how many sites are we talking about here?
  40. # [01:31] <hyatt> several
  41. # [01:32] <hyatt> it would be one thing if it was a slight problem
  42. # [01:32] <hyatt> but they go completely blank
  43. # [01:32] <Hixie> can you hardcode their URIs for one release or something?
  44. # [01:32] <Hixie> how do they work in IE?
  45. # [01:32] <Hixie> IE7
  46. # [01:32] <hyatt> this one site i'm looking at does:
  47. # [01:32] <hyatt> var isE = (document.all);
  48. # [01:32] <hyatt> if (isIE) { ... write something that would work in any browser ... }
  49. # [01:32] <hyatt> else { ... write self-closing script tags... }
  50. # [01:32] <hyatt> :(
  51. # [01:33] <Hixie> can you give me some uris?
  52. # [01:33] <Hixie> i'll see what i can do
  53. # [01:33] <hyatt> the above url is idisk on .mac
  54. # [01:33] <hyatt> so ummm
  55. # [01:33] <hyatt> we can't break it
  56. # [01:33] <hyatt> we can get it changed eventually at least
  57. # [01:33] <Hixie> don't you, like, work for the company that does that one
  58. # [01:33] <hyatt> yeah we can get it changed
  59. # [01:34] <hyatt> but we can't have it totally broken and non-functional in leopard
  60. # [01:34] <Hixie> i really, really don't want to have <script> special cased
  61. # [01:34] <Hixie> it'll be a security nightmare
  62. # [01:34] <hyatt> you don't have to
  63. # [01:34] <hyatt> we'll just be wrong
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  65. # [01:34] <hyatt> if there is an html5 doctype we could key on that
  66. # [01:34] <Hixie> what other uris are there?
  67. # [01:34] <Hixie> and can't idisk change before october?
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  70. # [02:14] <h3h> man I hope you have svn blame or an equivalent for whoever wrote that script on .mac
  71. # [02:14] <h3h> re-education is in order at least
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  103. # [09:11] <MikeSmith> nice ... if you click a mailto: link in Konqueror, it displays a pop-up with an envelope icon
  104. # [09:11] <MikeSmith> ... so you can easily tell visually that it's an e-mail link (not a hyperlink to another page)
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  107. # [09:21] <spillner> it should really do that for all protocols which leave the current protocol-space (and s/click/hover/)
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  109. # [09:31] <anne> (Based on the discussion earlier today one could conclude that XML syntax causes security issues...)
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  111. # [09:32] <MikeSmith> spillner - yeah, I meant hover ... but I don't know exactly what "protocol space" is or how a browser can have a current one
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  113. # [09:44] <spillner> konqueror is a multi-protocol browser... it can also link to FTP links, or WebDAV (it uses dav:// instead of http://), or kamera:// for access to your digicam's contents
  114. # [09:44] <MikeSmith> spillner - I see
  115. # [09:45] <MikeSmith> so the current protocol space is http by default? ...
  116. # [09:45] <MikeSmith> ... just wondering about that term -- haven't seen it used before
  117. # [09:45] <spillner> I just made the term up on my own, there might well be a different one for it - to the user it shouldn't matter as long as everything is hyperlinked
  118. # [09:46] <Zeros> anne, rather that people using it who didn't read Appendix C are dangerous.
  119. # [09:46] <spillner> I'm afraid that apart from HTTP(s) not many protocols provide hyperlinks though
  120. # [09:46] <anne> Who reads that anyway?
  121. # [09:47] <Zeros> clearly not enough people
  122. # [09:47] <MikeSmith> spillner - what parts of the KDE universe you working on these days?
  123. # [09:49] <spillner> kdelibs and kdegames-libs, mostly, but also GUI generation/forms when you ask about the relationship to html-wg
  124. # [09:50] <spillner> and "webtech" which is in playground where I try to integrate OpenID with the desktop, for instance :)
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  130. # [10:40] * hyatt continues his quest to mold webkit's parser into html5 goodness
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  133. # [10:40] <anne> :)
  134. # [10:40] <hyatt> i really don't like the fact that <p>blah<font>blah</p> .... 10000 more <p>s
  135. # [10:41] <hyatt> results in 10000 new font tags inside each of the 10000 <p>s
  136. # [10:41] <hyatt> really want to change that
  137. # [10:41] <hyatt> webkit does a single <font> around the 10000 <P>s
  138. # [10:41] <hyatt> which is so much more efficient
  139. # [10:41] <anne> you could go for a graph DOM as opposed to a tree DOM...
  140. # [10:42] <anne> oh, that sounds interesting
  141. # [10:42] <anne> it's not a problem for the content that the first "blah" is styled too?
  142. # [10:42] <anne> or is the DOM tree different from the layout tree?
  143. # [10:45] <hyatt> it's still a tree
  144. # [10:45] <hyatt> it just favors a blocks-inside-inlines approach
  145. # [10:46] <hyatt> to reduce the # of inlines you have to create
  146. # [10:46] <hyatt> i'd never seen it cause a bug until recently
  147. # [10:46] <anne> but how is the first "blah" styled in that case?
  148. # [10:46] <anne> using the styles from <font> ?
  149. # [10:46] <hyatt> <p>Foo <font>blah</p> .... 10000 more <p>s
  150. # [10:47] <hyatt> turns into:
  151. # [10:47] <hyatt> <p>Foo <font>blah</font></p> <font> .... 10000 more <p>s ... </font>
  152. # [10:47] <hyatt> in webkit
  153. # [10:47] <hyatt> but according to html5 it should turn into:
  154. # [10:47] <hyatt> <p>Foo <font>blah</font></p> <p><font>...</font></p> ... repeat 9999 more times ....
  155. # [10:47] <anne> yeah, I know
  156. # [10:47] <hyatt> which results in many many more font elements
  157. # [10:48] <anne> the WebKit algorithm would safe a lot of memory
  158. # [10:48] <hyatt> yeah but we ran into this bug:
  159. # [10:48] <hyatt> http://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13821
  160. # [10:48] <anne> for the bad cases
  161. # [10:48] <hyatt> someone did <font size=7>
  162. # [10:48] <hyatt> and our approach made the margins of the <p>s be too tall
  163. # [10:48] <hyatt> because they were 1em and inside the <font>
  164. # [10:49] <anne> ah
  165. # [10:49] <hyatt> so now i'm debating what to do
  166. # [10:50] <anne> it would be nice to have statistics on how often you hit this duplicating element thingie in the wild
  167. # [10:50] <hyatt> the evidence we have is that when you hit it, you *reeaaally* hit it
  168. # [10:51] <hyatt> like this tends to be the worst with these gigantic misnested pages
  169. # [10:51] * hyatt has a great cars page that hangs every browser except for ToT webkit
  170. # [10:51] <hyatt> these pages can just be lethal
  171. # [10:53] <karl> http://www.maratz.com/blog/archives/2007/05/18/24sata-goes-non-standards/
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  173. # [11:02] <xover> But is it conformant HTML5?
  174. # [11:08] <karl> xover: this is it still not really defined ;)
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  178. # [11:15] <MikeSmith> Lars Knoll has now joined the HTML working group
  179. # [11:22] <hyatt> yay
  180. # [11:27] <spillner> very good
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  194. # [13:41] <CameraMan> Which version of actionscript should we use ?
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  199. # [13:43] <CameraMan> do u know flash ?
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The end :)