/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2007-06-04 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Jun 04 00:00:00 2007
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  23. # [01:57] <heycam> are there any methods in the html5 idl that have optional arguments?
  24. # [01:57] <Dashiva> I believe they use lots and lots of overloading instead
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  26. # [01:58] <heycam> ah, right
  27. # [01:58] <heycam> can you think of one that i can search for? (so i don't have to scour the document)
  28. # [01:58] <Philip`> Anything that ends with arguments which could accept 'undefined' could be counted as having optional arguments
  29. # [01:59] <heycam> although you can tell the difference between an argument being omitted and an 'undefined' value being passed as an argument
  30. # [01:59] <heycam> i was thinking just before if there are any functions that make that distinction
  31. # [01:59] <heycam> maybe Function.prototype.call?
  32. # [01:59] <Philip`> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-2d - drawImage has lots of overloading
  33. # [01:59] <heycam> thanks Philip`
  34. # [02:00] <heycam> do you know if there are any overloaded functions that discriminate based on argument type, rather than argument count?
  35. # [02:01] <Philip`> Oh, I misremembered the too-few-arguments things - it says "Unless other specified, if a method is passed fewer arguments than is defined for that method in its IDL definition, a NOT_SUPPORTED_ERR exception must be raised." (though that's not standard JS behaviour so maybe it should be changed)
  36. # [02:01] <Philip`> drawImage discriminates on HTMLImageElement vs HTMLCanvasElement
  37. # [02:02] <Philip`> createPattern too
  38. # [02:02] <Philip`> (I'm not familiar with any examples outside the canvas API, though)
  39. # [02:02] <heycam> (function() { return arguments.length }).call(null, undefined, undefined, undefined); // returns 3, though i guess this is a different kind of function, more like a varargs in C
  40. # [02:02] <heycam> k, thanks
  41. # [02:03] <mjs> Philip`: yeah, I think the too few arguments rule is a bad one
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  43. # [02:03] <mjs> Philip`: JS exceptions are bad sort of for the same reason as draconian parsing rules
  44. # [02:03] <mjs> minor implementation differences turn into fatal errors in some browsers but not all
  45. # [02:04] <heycam> mjs, yeah, but only if there are implementation differences :)
  46. # [02:04] <Philip`> Hmm, would it be good if there was a way for the APIs to complain about errors without using exceptions, so the script could carry on regardless?
  47. # [02:04] <mjs> heycam: I wish I could claim it's possible for browser vendors not to make mistakes
  48. # [02:05] <Philip`> because it's nice to know when you've done something wrong, so reporting errors is good
  49. # [02:05] <heycam> mjs, i know, it's the world we live in :)
  50. # [02:05] <mjs> Philip`: well, the other common approach is to return an error code, but multiple returns in JS are awkward
  51. # [02:05] <mjs> Philip`: I think logging a warning would be the best thing for browsers to do on wrong number of args (too few or too many)
  52. # [02:05] <Philip`> Multiple returns are easy in JS 1.7 :-)
  53. # [02:06] <heycam> mjs, but the statements following the incorrect function call are likely to rely on that statement functioning correctly
  54. # [02:06] <mjs> probably not good to rely on random mozilla-specific extensions to JS
  55. # [02:07] <Philip`> (But people ignore error codes by default, so they don't seem a good way to tell authors when they've done something wrong)
  56. # [02:07] <mjs> heycam: you'd be surprised
  57. # [02:07] <heycam> mjs, perhaps you write more fault tolerant scripts than i do ;)
  58. # [02:07] <mjs> heycam: a lot of the time, silent failure leads to a script that is very close to working right
  59. # [02:07] <mjs> I'm not talking about my personal code, but code that I tend to see on the web
  60. # [02:07] <heycam> aha
  61. # [02:08] <Dashiva> It depends on the case, though
  62. # [02:08] <mjs> a lot of pages that fail catastrophically are due to getting a JS exception in Safari and not in other browsers
  63. # [02:08] <Philip`> I think I remember hearing of someone having found that they could fix lots of crashes in C programs by just returning 0 for any invalid memory reads, and the programs usually carried on correctly even though the data was rubbish
  64. # [02:08] <Dashiva> Like doing send() in XMLHttpRequest instead of send(null) is not something to fail over
  65. # [02:08] <heycam> mjs, what sort of errors are they?
  66. # [02:08] <heycam> Dashiva, yeah that is pretty minor
  67. # [02:09] <mjs> heycam: often methods or properties that are missing, scope differences, differences in expected parameters, etc
  68. # [02:09] <Philip`> (...but I don't know (and can't find) any actual details)
  69. # [02:09] <mjs> heycam: a lot of the time just commenting out the offending line of JS leads to a page that mostly works
  70. # [02:10] <heycam> mjs, is there a way to get the webkit qt wrapper to use a proxy?
  71. # [02:11] <mjs> heycam: I don't know much about the Qt port
  72. # [02:11] <heycam> k
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  74. # [02:29] * karl is reading quickly the IRC backlog for this week-end
  75. # [02:29] <heycam> regarding interpolating colours for gradients on canvas, it currently says: "Between each such stop, the colors and the alpha component must be linearly interpolated over the RGBA space without premultiplying the alpha value to find the color to use at that offset."
  76. # [02:30] <heycam> does that mean each component is separately linearly interpolated?
  77. # [02:30] <heycam> or could you use linear sRGB to do "nice" interpolation?
  78. # [02:32] * mjs shrugs
  79. # [02:34] <Philip`> My assumption would be that a gradient from (a,b,c,d) to (e,f,g,h) would have colour ((a+e)/2,(b+f)/2,...) at the centre, in the same colour space as all the input/output colours (via fillStyle, get/putImageData, etc)
  80. # [02:35] <Philip`> but the colour space is undefined (and it seems implementations use 'device RGB' rather than e.g. sRGB) so you can't really tell what it'll look like
  81. # [02:35] <mjs> on Windows, 'device RGB' and sRGB are for pratical purposes the same thing
  82. # [02:36] <Philip`> in which case it doesn't matter that the linear interpolation is not exactly defined, since it relies on other things are even less defined
  83. # [02:36] <mjs> though not on mac, since the gamma is different
  84. # [02:37] <Philip`> (but all those things ought to be defined eventually)
  85. # [02:37] * heycam is not a colour boffin, but just wondered if the wording implied one way or the other
  86. # [02:37] <Dashiva> RGB except when it's BGR...
  87. # [02:38] <Philip`> I'm not either, but I can't think of any other way of interpolating colours that makes sense :-)
  88. # [02:39] <Philip`> I suppose you could claim that since it says "the colors and the alpha component must be ..." rather than "the color must be ...", it means to split out the four components because otherwise it'd use the simpler phrasing
  89. # [02:40] <heycam> prolly, i'm just nit picking really
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  91. # [03:44] <karl> http://www.w3.org/2007/02/dmdwa-ws/
  92. # [03:44] <karl> "Workshop on Declarative Models of Distributed Web Applications"
  93. # [03:45] <karl> 5 - 6 June 2007
  94. # [03:45] <karl> Dublin, Ireland
  95. # [03:49] <karl> http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=40318&public=1&order=org
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  155. # [16:35] <MikeSmith> problems at freenode?
  156. # [16:36] <anne> wfm
  157. # [16:36] <edas> wfm also
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  159. # [16:38] <MikeSmith> weird ... guess I'll trying restarting Xchat
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  176. # [19:38] <SeanPaul> Hey . what web applications are ?
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  178. # [19:39] <Sander> think of things like gmail
  179. # [19:40] <Sander> although that's a rather extreme example; much simpler things would be classified as web apps, too
  180. # [19:53] <SeanPaul> thanks
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The end :)