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- # 11:00 * anne wonders why he's cc'ed on http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2007OctDec/0296.html
- # 11:00 * anne is puzzled
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- # 11:57 < gsnedders> anne: because we, as members of the WG of a whole, value your opinion greatly as this is your area of expertise
- # 11:57 * gsnedders hopes everyone's parsers saw the implied |sarcasm| tags
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- # 12:26 < anne> zcorpan, have fun in the PFWG :)
- # 12:51 < zcorpan> anne: i'll try :)
- # 12:54 < anne> if all goes well html-design-principles and access-control will be published today
- # 12:54 < zcorpan> cool
- # 13:02 < Lachy> awesome. Will HTML5 also be published?
- # 13:03 < anne> no, that became pretty clear during the last telcon
- # 13:03 < Lachy> ok
- # 13:04 < anne> DanC wants to take a few weeks to discuss each feature that is not explicitly mentioned in the charter or something in that direction
- # 13:06 < Lachy> it's annoying that there's always something new to delay the process
- # 13:09 < Lachy> looks like Selectors API will be going to Last Call soon too. Didn't see any objections raised in the last call for concensus, and today is the deadline
- # 13:10 < Lachy> so I guess I'll need to prepare that for publication soon and then find some time to start on the testsuite
- # 13:17 < anne> i'd suggest you simply request publication today and negotiate a publication date with webreq
- # 13:17 < anne> as i'm done with xhr2 I can do it for you, even
- # 13:18 < Lachy> I'll do it later tonight
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- # 13:50 < gsnedders> anne: can I copy the styling of html5.org?
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- # 14:23 < anne> gsnedders, yes
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- # 14:32 < anne> Lachy, ok, cool
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- # 14:42 < gsnedders> anne: thx
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- # 16:56 < anne> voila: http://www.w3.org/TR/html-design-principles/
- # 16:56 < Lachy> Woo hoo!
- # 16:56 < zcorpan> html wg finally published something? :)
- # 16:57 < anne> it's amazing
- # 16:57 < zcorpan> we should party
- # 16:58 < Lachy> and it's only been 9 months since it started! :-)
- # 17:00 < Philip> So the group is following a roughly human lifecycle?
- # 17:03 < anne> btw, I'll be arriving in Oslo next Sunday
- # 17:03 < anne> and in Sweden around the fourteenth or so, for a day
- # 17:04 < Lachy> I'll be in Sweeden on the 14th too
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- # 17:06 < zcorpan> me too :)
- # 17:06 < anne> surprise surprise
- # 17:06 < anne> this discussion on html4all should really move elsewhere...
- # 17:07 < anne> also, I managed to sneak out http://www.w3.org/TR/access-control/
- # 17:09 < Lachy> wow, this is unbelievably complicated UI http://misc.xstandard.com/html4all/dl.gif
- # 17:12 < gsnedders> Lachy: the sad thing is I've seen applications with worse UIs than that
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- # 17:13 < anne> has anyone e-mailed krijnh about the logs?
- # 17:13 < Philip> Lachy: Opera's right-click-on-page menu has just as many menu items in it, and it's not that unusable
- # 17:15 < Lachy> Philip, I'm well aware of Opera's usability features/problems
- # 17:19 < Philip> I don't think that dl.gif is "unbelievably complicated" - it seems fairly easy to see the five main sections and decide which one you want, then narrow down to the individual item
- # 17:20 < Philip> If it had twenty totally different labelled items and you had to scan the whole list to find what you wanted, then I'd agree it was unusable :-)
- # 17:20 < Lachy> Philip, there are much more intuitive UIs that could be implemented instead of putting everything in a context menu
- # 17:21 < Lachy> Like pressing enter inserts a new item, and pressing tab converts it from a dt to dd and shift tab from dd to dt.
- # 17:22 < Lachy> And Ctrl+Up/Down arrow could move items or even dragging a handle beside the items
- # 17:24 < beowulf> that doesn't sound intuitive
- # 17:25 < anne> that's just shortcuts
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- # 17:26 < beowulf> 'k, shortcuts by nature aren't intuitive though, I'd have thought?
- # 17:27 < Philip> You need a menu with all the functions, listing the shortcuts beside them, and then people who use those functions a lot will learn those shortcuts
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- # 17:34 < mjs> Philip: menus with that many items are almost always bad just on general principle
- # 17:34 < mjs> Philip: especially ones with so many similarly named items
- # 17:34 * anne e-mails out a bunch of requests for review on access control for cross-site requests
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- # 17:35 < mjs> 7-10 is usually considered the sweet spot for something that is reasonably scannable
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- # 17:35 < anne> beowulf, I wasn't replying to you ;)
- # 17:35 * anne thought it was 5-7
- # 17:36 < mjs> you're not gonna find a lot of apps with 5-item menus
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- # 18:22 < anne> Hixie, it would be nice if http://www.whatwg.org/issues/data.csv was in reverse order
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- # 20:38 < Hixie> anne: never gonna happen, since i just append a line to the file each night
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- # 21:07 < anne> maybe I'll be annoying and make a page that fetches it, reverses the line order and prints it out
- # 21:23 < anne> maybe not, i can already imagine feature requests coming in for drawing graphs based on it etc.
- # 21:24 * Philip was actually going to suggest that, but then thought better of it
- # 21:26 < Philip> (since it's not like it'd be useful for anything)
- # 21:57 < gsnedders> wowowow! We. actually. have. a. FPWD. <http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-html-design-principles-20071126/>
- # 21:58 < anne> unfortunately not of HTML 5 itself
- # 22:01 < gsnedders> anne: at least we're only… lost count of how many months late for the heartbeat requirement
- # 22:02 < anne> 6
- # 22:02 < anne> because apparently we've been running for 9
- # 22:03 < gsnedders> only 6?
- # 22:03 < anne> which doesn't seem exactly true, but close enough
- # 22:03 < gsnedders> not quite as bad as I thought
- # 22:03 < anne> also, the count has been reset now we published something
- # 22:03 < Lachy> yep, the group started in March
- # 22:03 < gsnedders> anne: I know
- # 22:03 < gsnedders> how long next time? bets anyone?
- # 22:04 < Lachy> so another 3 months of delays before we publish HTML5?
- # 22:04 < gsnedders> Lachy: no, the diff document next
- # 22:04 < gsnedders> Lachy: spec must be last :P
- # 22:04 < anne> we could also publish another design principles
- # 22:04 < Lachy> the diff document and spec should be published at the same time
- # 22:04 < anne> as far as the process doc is concerned it doesn't matter
- # 22:05 < gsnedders> anne: Am I just too hopeful wanting variety?
- # 22:05 < anne> prolly
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- # 22:25 < anne> wow
- # 22:26 < anne> the design principles hit the w3.org frontpage header that's marked up red (making it the promoted item or some such)
- # 22:45 < Lachy> anne, isn't the top item always shown in red?
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- # 22:52 < gsnedders> I think so
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- # 22:55 < anne> Lachy, yes, but only few drafts make it there
- # 22:56 < anne> typically not documents such as the design principles, and certainly not such documents as FPWD
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- # 23:00 < Lachy> ok. I thought they announced all publications there and just put the most recent at the top
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- # 23:02 < Philip> http://blog.vlad1.com/2007/11/26/canvas-3d-gl-power-web-style/
- # 23:09 < anne> seems that as a result you finally get replies: https://labs.mozilla.com/forum/index.php?topic=58.0
- # 23:13 < Philip> Ooh, only took five months ;-)
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The end :)