/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2009-06-04 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Jun 04 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  14. # [01:45] <pimpbot> planet: What’s so Great About Open Video? <http://blog.mozilla.com/faaborg/2009/05/29/whats-so-great-about-open-video/>
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  17. # [02:20] <MikeSmith> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2009Jun/0026.html
  18. # [02:20] <pimpbot> Title: PF Response: Summary from Janina Sajka on 2009-06-04 (www-archive@w3.org from June 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
  19. # [02:33] <MikeSmith> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009AprJun/0737.html
  20. # [02:33] <pimpbot> Title: Origin enables XSS to escalate to XSRF (was: security issue with XMLHttpRequest API compatibility) from Mark S. Miller on 2009-06-03 (public-webapps@w3.org from April to June 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
  21. # [02:45] <pimpbot> planet: How does the low real time typing work in Google Wave? <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/932415/how-does-the-low-real-time-typing-work-in-google-wave>
  22. # [03:17] <MikeSmith> http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/pinkerton/archives/020035.html
  23. # [03:17] <pimpbot> Title: Sucking less, on a budget: Browsers are hard, mmkay? (at weblogs.mozillazine.org)
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  38. # [07:24] <MikeSmith> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009AprJun/0713.html
  39. # [07:24] <pimpbot> Title: Re: XBL2 Status? from Arthur Barstow on 2009-06-02 (public-webapps@w3.org from April to June 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
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  52. # [09:47] <pimpbot> planet: The video tag's fatal flaw <http://www.reddit.com/r/browsers/comments/8pooo/the_video_tags_fatal_flaw/>
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  55. # [10:37] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 6776] Note the XSLT implications of assigning HTML elements into the http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml namespace <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Jun/0037.html>
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  80. # [16:21] <shepazu> pimpbot, help?
  81. # [16:21] <pimpbot> shepazu: Huh?
  82. # [16:21] * Parts: billmason (bmason@69.30.57.106)
  83. # [16:25] <jgraham> pimpbot: Less useful than skippy the bush kangaroo
  84. # [16:25] <pimpbot> jgraham: Huh?
  85. # [16:25] * Joins: billmason (bmason@69.30.57.106)
  86. # [16:36] <MikeSmith> pimpbot used to rock the mike, but unfortunately has now stripped the jeep to fill his pipe
  87. # [16:36] <pimpbot> MikeSmith: Huh?
  88. # [16:37] <MikeSmith> pimpbot, take a bong rip
  89. # [16:37] <pimpbot> MikeSmith: Huh?
  90. # [16:40] <gsnedders> pimpbot sux.
  91. # [16:40] <pimpbot> gsnedders: Huh?
  92. # [16:40] <gsnedders> pimpbot: Dude, just accept it.
  93. # [16:40] <pimpbot> gsnedders: Huh?
  94. # [16:40] <gsnedders> pimpbot: おめでとうございますと言う意味、良く頑張ったと言う意味
  95. # [16:40] <pimpbot> gsnedders: Huh?
  96. # [16:40] <gsnedders> Damnit.
  97. # [16:40] <gsnedders> I thought pimpbot would understand!
  98. # [16:40] <Dashiva> Mike is not pimpbot
  99. # [16:41] <gsnedders> Dashiva: I know.
  100. # [16:41] <MikeSmith> living proof that stuff will kill you
  101. # [16:41] <MikeSmith> dude used to be able to rhyme like Bobby Womack
  102. # [16:41] * gsnedders realizes Google Language Tools now supports Japanese :P
  103. # [16:41] <Dashiva> How can you be living proof... of killing
  104. # [16:42] <gsnedders> Life and death are one and the same.
  105. # [16:43] <MikeSmith> most of our heroes unfortunately live long enough to eventually deeply disappoint us
  106. # [16:43] <Dashiva> I think I prefer that to lost potential
  107. # [16:44] * gsnedders stabs MikeSmith
  108. # [16:44] <gsnedders> I wanted you to die before you disappointed me!
  109. # [16:44] <jgraham> MikeSmith was your hero?
  110. # [16:44] <gsnedders> Totally.
  111. # [16:44] <jgraham> I really never want to be your hero.
  112. # [16:44] <Dashiva> You can still be "an hero"
  113. # [16:44] <gsnedders> jgraham: You aren't heroic enough.
  114. # [16:45] <jgraham> phew
  115. # [16:45] * gsnedders turns up the CSS, loud.
  116. # [16:45] <MikeSmith> anyway, I'm really, really glad that 99% percent of Web UAs aren't browsers
  117. # [16:45] <gsnedders> "If some day we get to meet again"
  118. # [16:46] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: I'm relying on you knowing the next line :P
  119. # [16:46] <jgraham> In other unrelated comments, what is the leasy sucky linux pdf reader?
  120. # [16:46] <Philip> jgraham: acroread?
  121. # [16:46] * gsnedders thinks most Linux GUI software is sucky.
  122. # [16:46] <Dashiva> jgraham: The one that comes with ubuntu
  123. # [16:46] * Philip just uses KPDF
  124. # [16:46] <jgraham> I like evince but I have wasted literally days of my life waiting for the search
  125. # [16:47] <jgraham> acroread is sucky on all platforms
  126. # [16:47] <Philip> KPDF does nice smooth scrolling to search results
  127. # [16:47] <MikeSmith> gsnedders: "don't know where, don't know when"?
  128. # [16:47] <jgraham> Evince does "rescan the entire document evry single time you make a search"
  129. # [16:47] <MikeSmith> "If some day we get to meet again"... we shall smoke a bowl in remembrance of things past?
  130. # [16:47] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: FAIL.
  131. # [16:48] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: "in a car crash, plane wreck, terrorist attack/or maybe next thursday night"
  132. # [16:48] <Philip> KPDF has an "Aggressive" setting for memory usage, which makes it use loads of memory but page rendering and searches go faster
  133. # [16:49] <jgraham> Oh KPDF sounds bad. I don't want to futz with memory usage settings, I just want it to not take several minutes to search 200 page documents
  134. # [16:49] <jgraham> (OS X preview gets this right)
  135. # [16:49] <gsnedders> jgraham: Use OS X :P
  136. # [16:50] <MikeSmith> gsnedders: if that turns out to be a line from some crap christian heavy-metal band, I'm going to burn my christian-hard-rockers card once and for all
  137. # [16:50] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: CSS.
  138. # [16:50] <jgraham> gsnedders: I can't. And it's really not better than Linux overall anyway
  139. # [16:50] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: "This Month, Day 10"
  140. # [16:51] <MikeSmith> gsnedders: you have passed the test, grasshopper
  141. # [16:51] * gsnedders turns on some Christian heavy-metal band ;P
  142. # [16:51] <MikeSmith> you have snatched the pebble from my hand
  143. # [16:52] <gsnedders> Actually, seeming iTunes has just gone on to U2, I'll listen to that because that means I don't need to change it :P
  144. # [16:52] <gsnedders> (And I'm lazy)
  145. # [16:52] <Philip> jgraham: Even on the default, it takes KPDF about 2 seconds to find a term on page 2084 of the OOXML spec (at least the second time you search - it takes a while to cache stuff the first time)
  146. # [16:52] <Philip> jgraham: whereas evince seems to take ~20 seconds each time
  147. # [16:52] <jgraham> Philip: That sounds like a sensible improvement
  148. # [16:52] <MikeSmith> gsnedders: 俺の話を聞け！
  149. # [16:54] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: Sorry, Sir.
  150. # [16:54] * jgraham discovers KPDF is not avaliable; tries installing okular instead
  151. # [16:55] <MikeSmith> gsnedders: tiger and dragon
  152. # [16:55] <jgraham> Which involves pulling all of KDE :(
  153. # [16:55] <Philip> jgraham: KPDF is just part of kdegraphics
  154. # [16:55] <Philip> (which also involves pulling all of KDE)
  155. # [16:55] <Philip> (which should be seen as a great opportunity)
  156. # [16:56] <MikeSmith> jgraham: yeah, isn't that the really wonderful thing about KDE?
  157. # [16:56] <Philip> The fact you have to install it before you can use it?
  158. # [16:56] <jgraham> A great oppertunity to have a bunch of libraries for useless, ugly, unusable software that I have no interest in filling up my hard drive?
  159. # [16:57] <MikeSmith> (you make a 2-line change to once source file, then need to re-build 300MB of KDE whatever9
  160. # [16:57] <MikeSmith> jgraham: yes
  161. # [16:57] <MikeSmith> that's the magic for KDE
  162. # [16:57] <Philip> jgraham: Yes, except that they're useful and pretty (at least with some themes) and usable, and hard disk space is basically free
  163. # [16:57] <MikeSmith> the only thing worse is Gnome
  164. # [16:58] <MikeSmith> so make your choice wisely, grasshopper
  165. # [16:58] <Philip> MikeSmith: I think KDE is all modular nowadays, so you don't have to recompile absolutely everything
  166. # [16:58] <Philip> though I'm not sure if that's only really in KDE4
  167. # [16:58] <MikeSmith> jaja, fantástica respuesta
  168. # [16:59] <Philip> (Gentoo does something fancy so that KDE3 is modular, e.g. it's got a standalone kpdf package and doesn't have to compile everything else)
  169. # [16:59] <jgraham> Argh. It wants me to use F3 for find next. That is basically a deal breaker
  170. # [16:59] <MikeSmith> KDE4 frightens and confuses me
  171. # [16:59] <Philip> jgraham: What's so bad about F3?
  172. # [16:59] <MikeSmith> I'm actually just a caveman. I fell on some ice and later got thawed out by some of your scientists.
  173. # [16:59] <jgraham> Philip: It's not ctrl+G
  174. # [17:00] <Philip> jgraham: I expect you can rebind the keys fairly easily
  175. # [17:01] <Philip> jgraham: (Is this some KDE application? If so, the KDE control centre has Regional & Accessibility -> Keyboard shortcuts -> Application shortcuts -> "Find next")
  176. # [17:03] <jgraham> Oh OK, I managed to rebind the controls. Now how do I change the theme to be "just look like my GTK theme as much as possible, please"
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  179. # [17:05] <Philip> jgraham: Maybe http://labs.trolltech.com/page/Projects/Styles/GtkStyle
  180. # [17:05] <pimpbot> Title: Qt Labs - Projects/Styles/GtkStyle (at labs.trolltech.com)
  181. # [17:06] <Philip> jgraham: (or use http://code.google.com/p/gtk-qt-engine/ for the reverse effect, which you presumably don't want)
  182. # [17:06] <pimpbot> Title: gtk-qt-engine - Google Code (at code.google.com)
  183. # [17:08] <Philip> jgraham: or just accept that different applications will look different, like they do on every other OS
  184. # [17:08] <jgraham> Philip: Yeah but this looks shockingly awful
  185. # [17:09] <Philip> Ah, if it's ugly rather than just different, then that's a problem :-)
  186. # [17:09] <jgraham> Maybe there is a nicer thee but if it is possible to make it just look the same as everything else that seems like the best solution
  187. # [17:10] * Philip uses the Domino theme in KDE, and the QtCurve theme for GTK
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  189. # [17:21] <jgraham> Sigh. Okular has decided to always start in fullscreen mode, forget my reassigned keyboard bindings when I close it down and ignore the theme I set in Qt-Settings
  190. # [17:22] <jgraham> Plus the search is broken
  191. # [17:22] <jgraham> It brings up a dialog when you search just to say "Searching"
  192. # [17:22] <Philip> You should have installed Kubuntu so it would all work straight out of the box
  193. # [17:23] <jgraham> Then, if it doesn't find anything it brings up a dialog that says "Foo not found" and you have to click OK
  194. # [17:23] <jgraham> Do these people actually use their own software?
  195. # [17:23] <Philip> Can you search by typing "/stuff" too?
  196. # [17:23] <jgraham> It /cannot/ be this hard to write decent text search
  197. # [17:24] <jgraham> Even in PDF which requires a lot of effort to get to the underlying text
  198. # [17:24] <Philip> (By "click OK" I assume you mean "press Enter")
  199. # [17:24] <jgraham> Philip: Perform some action which I have no need or desire to do
  200. # [17:25] <jgraham> And now I will never be able to uninstall all the cruft I added to try it :(
  201. # [17:26] <Philip> Search-as-you-type works in KPDF at least, so I'd assume Okular would have something similar
  202. # [17:26] <jgraham> Philip: It "works" in the sense that it finds the right things
  203. # [17:26] <jgraham> It is just horribly horribly badly designed
  204. # [17:27] * Philip shrugs
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  209. # [17:53] <DanC> action-34 due next week
  210. # [17:53] * trackbot attempting to change due date on ACTION-34.
  211. # [17:53] <trackbot> ACTION-34 Prepare "Web Developer's Guide to HTML5" for publication in some way, as discussed on 2007-11-28 phone conference due date now next week
  212. # [17:54] * Joins: aroben (aroben@71.58.77.15)
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  214. # [18:00] <rubys> action-105 due next week
  215. # [18:00] * trackbot attempting to change due date on ACTION-105.
  216. # [18:00] <trackbot> ACTION-105 Should arrange a meeting between chairs of HTML WG and XHTML2 WG to ensure there is a plan for coordination of vocabularies to avoid incompatibilities. due date now next week
  217. # [18:01] * Joins: dsinger (dsinger@17.202.35.52)
  218. # [18:04] <dsinger> zakim, who is here?
  219. # [18:05] * Joins: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.30)
  220. # [18:05] <dsinger> zakim, who is here?
  221. # [18:05] <Zakim> sorry, dsinger, I don't know what conference this is
  222. # [18:05] <Zakim> On IRC I see dsinger, aroben, DanC, Julian, rubys, billmason, MikeSmith, maddiin, jwatt, myakura, ed_work, Lachy, tlr, ROBOd, gsnedders, dbaron, heycam, tH, gavin_, inimino, hober,
  223. # [18:05] <dsinger> zakim, this is html
  224. # [18:05] <Zakim> ... theanxy, anne, karl, Dashiva, shepazu, gavin, deltab, trackbot, Philip, xover, krijnh, jmb, drry, pimpbot, phenny, takkaria, Shunsuke, Hixie, RRSAgent, sryo, jgraham, hsivonen,
  225. # [18:05] <Zakim> ... Yudai
  226. # [18:05] <Zakim> ok, dsinger; that matches HTML_WG()12:00PM
  227. # [18:05] * DanC Zakim, call DanC-work
  228. # [18:05] * Zakim ok, DanC; the call is being made
  229. # [18:05] <Zakim> +DanC
  230. # [18:06] <dsinger> zakim, who is here?
  231. # [18:06] <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.408.996.aaaa, +1.218.340.aabb, DanC
  232. # [18:06] <Zakim> On IRC I see dsinger, aroben, DanC, Julian, rubys, billmason, MikeSmith, maddiin, jwatt, myakura, ed_work, Lachy, tlr, ROBOd, gsnedders, dbaron, heycam, tH, gavin_, inimino, hober,
  233. # [18:06] <Zakim> ... theanxy, anne, karl, Dashiva, shepazu, gavin, deltab, trackbot, Philip, xover, krijnh, jmb, drry, pimpbot, phenny, takkaria, Shunsuke, Hixie, RRSAgent, sryo, jgraham, hsivonen,
  234. # [18:06] <dsinger> zakim, +1.408.996.aaaa is [apple]
  235. # [18:06] <Zakim> ... Yudai
  236. # [18:06] <anne> The CSS WG F2F day 2 just ended. So I'll miss this one
  237. # [18:06] <Zakim> +[apple]; got it
  238. # [18:06] <dsinger> zakim, [apple] has dsinger
  239. # [18:06] <Zakim> +dsinger; got it
  240. # [18:06] <Zakim> +Matt_May
  241. # [18:06] * shepazu Zakim, call shepazu
  242. # [18:06] * Zakim ok, shepazu; the call is being made
  243. # [18:06] <Zakim> +Shepazu
  244. # [18:06] <Zakim> +Sam
  245. # [18:07] <Zakim> +??P19
  246. # [18:07] <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
  247. # [18:08] <DanC> Zakim, ??P19 is Joe_Williams
  248. # [18:08] <Zakim> +Joe_Williams; got it
  249. # [18:09] * dsinger I invited Zakim, and identified this as HTML call, but there is a third thing one needs to do, to get records/minutes started, isn't there?
  250. # [18:09] <DanC> trackbot, start meeting
  251. # [18:09] * trackbot is starting a teleconference
  252. # [18:09] <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
  253. # [18:09] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, trackbot
  254. # [18:09] <trackbot> Zakim, this will be HTML
  255. # [18:09] <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference
  256. # [18:09] <trackbot> Date: 04 June 2009
  257. # [18:09] <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
  258. # [18:09] * dsinger thanks, DanC
  259. # [18:10] <rubys> chair: Sam
  260. # [18:10] <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
  261. # [18:10] * dsinger go for it, Sam
  262. # [18:10] <rubys> zakim, pick a scribe
  263. # [18:10] <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Sam
  264. # [18:10] <rubys> zakim, pick a scribe
  265. # [18:10] <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose [pple]
  266. # [18:11] * Joins: ChrisWilson (cwilso@131.107.0.102)
  267. # [18:11] <ChrisWilson> One momemt
  268. # [18:11] <ChrisWilson> er, moment
  269. # [18:11] * dsinger you have our moments
  270. # [18:11] <rubys> chair: Chris Wilson
  271. # [18:12] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  272. # [18:12] <ChrisWilson> zakim, microsoft is me
  273. # [18:12] <Zakim> +ChrisWilson; got it
  274. # [18:12] <ChrisWilson> zakim, who is here?
  275. # [18:12] <Zakim> On the phone I see [apple], +1.218.340.aabb, DanC, Matt_May, Shepazu, Sam, Joe_Williams, ChrisWilson
  276. # [18:12] <Zakim> [apple] has dsinger
  277. # [18:12] <Zakim> On IRC I see ChrisWilson, Zakim, dsinger, aroben, DanC, Julian, rubys, billmason, MikeSmith, maddiin, jwatt, myakura, ed_work, Lachy, tlr, ROBOd, gsnedders, dbaron, heycam, tH,
  278. # [18:12] <Zakim> ... gavin_, inimino, hober, theanxy, anne, karl, Dashiva, shepazu, gavin, deltab, trackbot, Philip, xover, krijnh, jmb, drry, pimpbot, phenny, takkaria, Shunsuke, Hixie, RRSAgent,
  279. # [18:12] <Zakim> ... sryo, jgraham, hsivonen, Yudai
  280. # [18:12] <ChrisWilson> zakim, aabb is LauraCarlson
  281. # [18:12] <Zakim> +LauraCarlson; got it
  282. # [18:12] <Zakim> + +49.251.280.aacc
  283. # [18:13] <dsinger> Chris: apologizes for the late start
  284. # [18:13] <ChrisWilson> zakim, aacc is Julian
  285. # [18:13] <Zakim> +Julian; got it
  286. # [18:13] <Julian> Zakim, +49.251.280.aacc is me
  287. # [18:13] <Zakim> sorry, Julian, I do not recognize a party named '+49.251.280.aacc'
  288. # [18:13] * Joins: LeifHS (s@84.208.110.159)
  289. # [18:13] <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
  290. # [18:13] <rubys> scribe: dsinger
  291. # [18:13] * Joins: Laura (lauracarls@131.212.98.217)
  292. # [18:13] <ChrisWilson> agenda+ review agenda planner
  293. # [18:13] * Zakim notes agendum 1 added
  294. # [18:14] <dsinger> JoeW; wants to know how to make comments on HTML5
  295. # [18:14] * DanC looks for Joe on IRC to point out "the list" is public-html@w3.org ; doesn't see him
  296. # [18:14] <dsinger> Chris: start with an email on the WG list; it depends somewhat on the issue. wording etc. can be on list, anything big liek charter, bring to the chairs' attention
  297. # [18:15] <dsinger> s/liek/like/
  298. # [18:16] <ChrisWilson> zakim, take up item 1
  299. # [18:16] <Zakim> agendum 1. "review agenda planner" taken up [from ChrisWilson]
  300. # [18:16] <ChrisWilson> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/agenda
  301. # [18:16] <pimpbot> Title: Input for Agenda Planning for the HTML Weekly - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  302. # [18:16] <ChrisWilson> action-114?
  303. # [18:16] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-114
  304. # [18:16] <trackbot> ACTION-114 -- Cynthia Shelly to report progress on ARIA TF -- due 2009-05-21 -- OPEN
  305. # [18:16] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/114
  306. # [18:16] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-114 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  307. # [18:16] <DanC> Topic: ISSUE-35 (aria-processing)
  308. # [18:16] * DanC finds it helpful to do a topic per issue
  309. # [18:17] <DanC> (what was that technical problem?)
  310. # [18:17] <dsinger> Cynthia?: ARIA is making progress, expects to bring some matters back to HTML in the next couple of weeks
  311. # [18:17] * DanC yes, Cynthia
  312. # [18:17] <DanC> s/Cynthia?/Cynthia/
  313. # [18:17] <dsinger> s/Cynthia?/Cynthia/
  314. # [18:17] <dsinger> Cynthia: implementation is also progressing, more on Windows than the Mac...
  315. # [18:18] <dsinger> Cynthia: ongoing discussions in ARIA on over-riding semantics in HTML, but many don't want to go there.
  316. # [18:19] <DanC> e.g. radio buttons vs check boxes
  317. # [18:19] <ChrisWilson> action-103?
  318. # [18:19] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-103
  319. # [18:19] <trackbot> ACTION-103 -- Julian Reschke to register about: URI scheme -- due 2009-05-21 -- OPEN
  320. # [18:19] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/103
  321. # [18:19] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-103 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  322. # [18:19] <DanC> Topic: ISSUE-54 (doctype-legacy-compat)
  323. # [18:19] <dsinger> Julian: discussion on URI-review started, some feedback, and a new draft is being worked on
  324. # [18:19] <DanC> (I don't remember where the uri-review list is... searching...)
  325. # [18:20] <dsinger> Julian: summarizes what Bjorn said. Nits about fragments, some IRI considerations, dependency on HTML 5 - and we'd like to avoid that
  326. # [18:20] <DanC> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/uri-review/current/msg00869.html From: Bjoern Hoehrmann
  327. # [18:20] <pimpbot> Title: Re: [Uri-review] Request to review about URI scheme (at www.ietf.org)
  328. # [18:20] <dsinger> Julian: which makes circular normative references
  329. # [18:21] * DanC suggests close ACTION-124
  330. # [18:21] * Quits: dbaron (dbaron@193.51.208.72) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  331. # [18:21] <dsinger> Julian: wonders whether there is a similar action on Larry, which maybe should be merged...(into one on Julian)
  332. # [18:22] <Julian> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/uri-review/current/msg00869.html
  333. # [18:22] <pimpbot> Title: Re: [Uri-review] Request to review about URI scheme (at www.ietf.org)
  334. # [18:22] <ChrisWilson> action-99?
  335. # [18:22] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-99
  336. # [18:22] <trackbot> ACTION-99 -- Sam Ruby to review @profile -- due 2009-05-21 -- OPEN
  337. # [18:22] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/99
  338. # [18:22] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-99 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  339. # [18:22] <DanC> Topic: ISSUE-55 (head-profile)
  340. # [18:22] <dsinger> Sam: no-one seems to want to own review of @profile, can we make this action merely 'raised'?
  341. # [18:23] <dsinger> DanC: wonders if we could close it, but Julian would object doing that
  342. # [18:24] * shepazu notes that the editor has executive decrees
  343. # [18:24] <dsinger> someone: wonders if an executive decree can solve it, but no 'executive' is willing to go there
  344. # [18:24] <DanC> (yes, it makes sense to defer @profile until discussion of extensibility is also wound down.)
  345. # [18:25] <DanC> let's keep metadata profiles (head/@profile) in HTML for use in GRDDL etc.
  346. # [18:25] <DanC> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Jul/0571.html
  347. # [18:25] <pimpbot> Title: let's keep metadata profiles (head/profile) in HTML for use in GRDDL etc. from Dan Connolly on 2007-07-09 (public-html@w3.org from July 2007) (at lists.w3.org)
  348. # [18:25] <dsinger> Sam: we need an owner. The editor has made his opinion known, and we need an owner
  349. # [18:26] <dsinger> ...there has been extensive discussion, but we need the extensibility discussion
  350. # [18:26] <dsinger> ...we also need a resolution the editor is willing to write and can live with
  351. # [18:27] <dsinger> DanC: thinks that the HTML 4 text could (should?) be used
  352. # [18:27] <dsinger> Julian: mostly agrees with DanC, but notes we need to review whether multiple profiles are allowed
  353. # [18:27] * dsinger sorry, DanC, I'll learn voices
  354. # [18:27] <DanC> (re multiple, it's clear enough to me that HTML 4 allows many. It's subsequent XHTML 1.x drafts that were less clear.)
  355. # [18:27] * DanC no problem, dsinger , you're doing quite well]
  356. # [18:28] <dsinger> Chris: is trying to look at extensibility with his colleagues, and so he'll run with this for the moment
  357. # [18:29] <dsinger> Chris: feels that we have most of the text, and given a discussion of extensibility, we may be able to solve it, and merely 'raised' is not good enough
  358. # [18:30] * Parts: LeifHS (s@84.208.110.159)
  359. # [18:30] <dsinger> DanC: notes Chris also owns Decentralized extensibility (41), and Chris agrees the two are related
  360. # [18:30] <DanC> (hmm... I wonder about changing the issue name from head-profile to microdata. )
  361. # [18:30] <dsinger> ...some discussion of what uses what and for what purpose
  362. # [18:31] <ChrisWilson> action-121?
  363. # [18:31] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-121
  364. # [18:31] <trackbot> ACTION-121 -- Dan Connolly to submit id for URLs in HTML 5 -- due 2009-05-31 -- PENDINGREVIEW
  365. # [18:31] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/121
  366. # [18:31] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-121 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  367. # [18:31] * dsinger did we assign 99 to Chris?
  368. # [18:31] <DanC> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009May/0643.html
  369. # [18:31] <pimpbot> Title: Updating the IRI spec to include "web addresses" from Larry Masinter on 2009-05-31 (public-html@w3.org from May 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
  370. # [18:32] <dsinger> DanC: there is continuing editorial action here; some material will stay in HTML 5
  371. # [18:32] <dsinger> Julian: we need an I-D to be submitted by Larry, but he's on vacation for two weeks. He's also trying to organize a face to face (IETF) on the IRI spec and possible revision
  372. # [18:33] <dsinger> Julian: but an IRI revision would be (at best) in the autumn. we probably need to define a term and the mapping to IRI in a separate spec.
  373. # [18:33] <ChrisWilson> @dsinger - yes, action-99 was assigned to me
  374. # [18:33] <pimpbot> ChrisWilson: Huh?
  375. # [18:33] <dsinger> ...basically Larry's proposal, but in a separate document (not the IRI spec.)
  376. # [18:34] <dsinger> ...any preference on direction, anyone?
  377. # [18:34] <Julian> ...define "Web Address" and it's mapping to IRI (RFC 3987)
  378. # [18:34] <dsinger> s/it's/its/
  379. # [18:35] <dsinger> DanC: there was objection to 're-defining URL', and so we preferred a new term ('web address')
  380. # [18:36] <dsinger> ...getting the documents in the right places with the right content, gets us the right reviews by the right people.
  381. # [18:36] <dsinger> ...so an I-D will get review from IRI experts that'll never happen if we leave it in HTML 5
  382. # [18:37] <dsinger> ...reviews that Ian was concerned about malformed URLs (e.g. %%) and how they are handled
  383. # [18:37] * Joins: Stevef (chatzilla@208.65.74.230)
  384. # [18:37] <dsinger> Julian: would prefer to layer on top of the existing spec. over re-defining terms
  385. # [18:38] <dsinger> ...i.e. add a layer of handling malformed addresses etc.
  386. # [18:38] <dsinger> Julian: notes that actually we permit IRIs, so calling them URLs is wrong from the start
  387. # [18:39] <dsinger> Julian: then there is handling non-ascii in the query part, where the IRI handling is unsuitable...
  388. # [18:39] <dsinger> ...so 'web addresses' are close to IRIs but not (alas) identical
  389. # [18:39] <dsinger> (general thanks for the review, and we wait to see what Larry comes up with)
  390. # [18:39] <Julian> ...unsuitable for documents not encoded in UTF-8...
  391. # [18:40] * dsinger thinks we shouldn't by-pass Larry while he's out
  392. # [18:40] * dsinger sounds like the action is on Larry to do something
  393. # [18:41] <dsinger> Julian: volunteers to take on an action, and co-ordinate with DanC and Larry
  394. # [18:41] * Quits: drry (drry@210.235.212.25) (Quit: drry)
  395. # [18:41] <dsinger> s/volunteers/graciously volunteers/
  396. # [18:41] <dsinger> ...in Larry's absence
  397. # [18:41] <dsinger> (discussion of re-assigning actions etc.)
  398. # [18:41] <DanC> action: Julian coordinate with LMM and DanC to get an Internet Draft that addresses some HTML 5 href issues
  399. # [18:41] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  400. # [18:41] <trackbot> Created ACTION-125 - Coordinate with LMM and DanC to get an Internet Draft that addresses some HTML 5 href issues [on Julian Reschke - due 2009-06-11].
  401. # [18:41] * RRSAgent records action 1
  402. # [18:42] <DanC> action-125 due 2 July
  403. # [18:42] * trackbot attempting to change due date on ACTION-125.
  404. # [18:42] <trackbot> ACTION-125 Coordinate with LMM and DanC to get an Internet Draft that addresses some HTML 5 href issues due date now 2 July
  405. # [18:42] <dsinger> Julian: notes he'll be out for the next 3 meetings, alas
  406. # [18:42] <DanC> close ACTION-121
  407. # [18:42] * trackbot attempting to close ACTION-121.
  408. # [18:42] <trackbot> ACTION-121 Submit id for URLs in HTML 5 closed
  409. # [18:42] <ChrisWilson> action-86?
  410. # [18:42] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-86
  411. # [18:42] <trackbot> ACTION-86 -- Julian Reschke to review Thomas Broyer's IETF ID to see if we can postpone ISSUE-13 -- due 2009-06-01 -- OPEN
  412. # [18:42] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/86
  413. # [18:42] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-86 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  414. # [18:43] <dsinger> Julian: is communicating with Thomas but requests 4 more weeks
  415. # [18:43] <DanC> ACTION-86 due 2 July
  416. # [18:43] * trackbot attempting to change due date on ACTION-86.
  417. # [18:43] <trackbot> ACTION-86 Review Thomas Broyer's IETF ID to see if we can postpone ISSUE-13 due date now 2 July
  418. # [18:43] <ChrisWilson> action-111?
  419. # [18:43] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-111
  420. # [18:43] <trackbot> ACTION-111 -- Laura Carlson to work on process issues re: summary -- due 2009-06-26 -- PENDINGREVIEW
  421. # [18:43] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/111
  422. # [18:43] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-111 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  423. # [18:43] <DanC> Topic: ISSUE-32 (table-summary)
  424. # [18:44] <dsinger> Laura: a recommendation was sent yesterday, discussion has started
  425. # [18:44] <Laura> PF Recommendation: @Summary from Janina Sajka
  426. # [18:44] <Laura> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2009Jun/0026.html
  427. # [18:44] <pimpbot> Title: PF Response: Summary from Janina Sajka on 2009-06-04 (www-archive@w3.org from June 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
  428. # [18:44] <Laura> Response from editor and ensuing discussion:
  429. # [18:44] <Laura> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Jun/thread.html#msg173
  430. # [18:44] <pimpbot> Title: public-html@w3.org from June 2009: by thread (at lists.w3.org)
  431. # [18:44] <dsinger> (Ian sent said rec.)
  432. # [18:44] <Laura> The table summary issue seems to be at an impasse.
  433. # [18:44] <DanC> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Jun/0173.html
  434. # [18:44] <pimpbot> Title: Re: PF Response: Summary from Ian Hickson on 2009-06-04 (public-html@w3.org from June 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
  435. # [18:44] <Laura> For reference, the "Mechanism to Summarize a Table" issue is detailed at:
  436. # [18:44] <Laura> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/SummaryForTABLE
  437. # [18:44] <pimpbot> Title: HTML/SummaryForTABLE - ESW Wiki (at esw.w3.org)
  438. # [18:44] <dsinger> (people read...)
  439. # [18:45] * dsinger um, err, silence reigns...
  440. # [18:45] <dsinger> Laura: this has been an issue for maybe two years, and is puzzled as to how to make progress
  441. # [18:45] <dsinger> ...people are reminded of the profile problem
  442. # [18:45] <Laura> RFC 2119 compatible definition text for HTML 5 has been drafted by HTML WG Members.
  443. # [18:45] <Laura> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/SummaryForTABLE/SummarySpecification
  444. # [18:46] <pimpbot> Title: HTML/SummaryForTABLE/SummarySpecification - ESW Wiki (at esw.w3.org)
  445. # [18:46] <dsinger> Sam: wants to see the spec. text in context, so it could be (if desired) voted on
  446. # [18:47] <dsinger> DanC: the arguments are not about integrated text, but about summary being harmful
  447. # [18:47] <dsinger> Laura: says Steve wrote the text above
  448. # [18:47] * gsnedders points out we don't have consensus on a summary attribute, yet alone any specific definition of it
  449. # [18:48] <Laura> If @summary is not reinstated in HTML5 or if the editor does not come up with an agreeable solution, formal objections will probably be filed.
  450. # [18:49] <DanC> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/SummaryForTABLE/SummarySpecification#head-1172663079b5b6cd73b38e71357ad22f8108cc72
  451. # [18:49] <pimpbot> Title: HTML/SummaryForTABLE/SummarySpecification - ESW Wiki (at esw.w3.org)
  452. # [18:49] <dsinger> Dave: wonders if the chairs should discuss it with the editor, and see if he agrees discussion is over and we should vote (and he'd accept the result of the vote)
  453. # [18:49] <dsinger> Sam: thinks we should have a very clear text before we vote
  454. # [18:50] <Stevef> gsnedders said: "points out we don't have consensus on a summary attribute" thats the case for lost of stuff in the spec.
  455. # [18:51] <dsinger> Sam: feels that the editor would want such a vote at this point
  456. # [18:52] <dsinger> DanC: wants to know if there has been a response to Ian's contention that caption fills the role?
  457. # [18:53] <Laura> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/SummaryForTABLE
  458. # [18:53] <pimpbot> Title: HTML/SummaryForTABLE - ESW Wiki (at esw.w3.org)
  459. # [18:53] <dsinger> Laura: volunteers to make whatever improvements to that page are needed to have a clear vote
  460. # [18:54] <dsinger> DanC: agrees with Sam, that Ian will want a vote, and that the onus is on those who feel the wiki is not good enough, to help improve it
  461. # [18:54] <DanC> Laura, you're right, the version of 2009-06-04 13:14:01 is considerably better than when I last saw it
  462. # [18:54] <DanC> s/DanC: wants to know/Sam: wants to know/
  463. # [18:55] <ChrisWilson> s DanC/ChrisWilson
  464. # [18:55] * Quits: Stevef (chatzilla@208.65.74.230) (Ping timeout)
  465. # [18:55] * dsinger shucks, my voice recog. just threw a brick
  466. # [18:55] <dsinger> general feeling is to ask the group to get the Wiki page to a clear and un-biased description of the question, with a view to a future vote
  467. # [18:56] * Joins: Stevef (chatzilla@208.65.74.230)
  468. # [18:56] <dsinger> action: Sam to send a call to the WG to update the Wiki page to adequately reflect both (all) viewpoints on summary, in prep. for a vote
  469. # [18:56] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  470. # [18:56] * RRSAgent records action 2
  471. # [18:56] <trackbot> Created ACTION-126 - Send a call to the WG to update the Wiki page to adequately reflect both (all) viewpoints on summary, in prep. for a vote [on Sam Ruby - due 2009-06-11].
  472. # [18:57] <ChrisWilson> action-115?
  473. # [18:57] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-115
  474. # [18:57] <trackbot> ACTION-115 -- Michael(tm) Smith to set up WBS for HTML WG participants to attend HTML WG f2f during TPAC 2009 -- due 2009-05-28 -- PENDINGREVIEW
  475. # [18:57] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/115
  476. # [18:57] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-115 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  477. # [18:57] <ChrisWilson> action-123?
  478. # [18:57] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-123
  479. # [18:57] <trackbot> ACTION-123 -- Ian Hickson to discuss choice of embedding vcard microdata instead of referencing IETF spec and defining conformance reqs for HTML5 -- due 2009-05-21 -- PENDINGREVIEW
  480. # [18:57] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/123
  481. # [18:57] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-123 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  482. # [18:58] <dsinger> Dave: notes that CSS moved to early in the TPAC, so as not to overlap
  483. # [18:58] * Joins: adele (adele@17.246.18.115)
  484. # [18:59] <dsinger> Julian: describes the open/close/re-open/discussion/links that happened here
  485. # [19:00] <dsinger> Julian: followed up on the mailing list, and asked for a reply, and Ian responded it was deep in the stack and an answer wasn't likely soon
  486. # [19:01] <dsinger> Chris: feels we should make this open rather than pending review, and give Ian time to get it to the top of his stack
  487. # [19:01] <dsinger> Sam: wants to point out to Ian that the mail he referred to isn't enough of a response
  488. # [19:02] * rubys has a hard stop in two minutes
  489. # [19:02] <dsinger> Julian: wonders if this all belongs, anyway, as (some of?) the use cases were not agreed to
  490. # [19:02] * dsinger me too
  491. # [19:02] * dsinger (hard stop in two mins)
  492. # [19:02] <dsinger> Chris: re-opened it on Ian and moved the due date out
  493. # [19:03] <dsinger> Julian: would like someone (a chair?) to follow up with Ian
  494. # [19:03] <dsinger> Sam: will do such
  495. # [19:03] * DanC is really not comfortable assigning actions unilaterally; they should be accepted by the owner
  496. # [19:03] <Zakim> -Sam
  497. # [19:04] * ChrisWilson is not comfortable about unilateral decisions in general, which is the issue at hand.
  498. # [19:04] * dsinger bye Sam
  499. # [19:04] <ChrisWilson> any other business?
  500. # [19:04] * Julian is not comfortable with an editor not showing up at telcos at all
  501. # [19:04] * dsinger needs help closing up the logs. minutes etc.
  502. # [19:04] <ChrisWilson> adjourned.
  503. # [19:04] <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
  504. # [19:04] <DanC> RRSAgent, draft minutes
  505. # [19:04] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/06/04-html-wg-minutes.html DanC
  506. # [19:04] <dsinger> Chris: moves to adjourn
  507. # [19:04] <Zakim> -ChrisWilson
  508. # [19:04] <Zakim> -Matt_May
  509. # [19:04] <Zakim> -Julian
  510. # [19:04] <Laura> present+ Laura
  511. # [19:04] <Zakim> -Shepazu
  512. # [19:05] <Laura> bye
  513. # [19:05] <Zakim> -Joe_Williams
  514. # [19:05] <DanC> Zakim, list participants
  515. # [19:05] <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +1.218.340.aabb, DanC, dsinger, Matt_May, Shepazu, Sam, Cynthia_Shelly, Joe_Williams, ChrisWilson, LauraCarlson, +49.251.280.aacc, Julian
  516. # [19:05] <DanC> RRSAgent, draft minutes
  517. # [19:05] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/06/04-html-wg-minutes.html DanC
  518. # [19:05] <pimpbot> Title: HTML Weekly Teleconference -- 04 Jun 2009 (at www.w3.org)
  519. # [19:05] <Zakim> -LauraCarlson
  520. # [19:06] * Joins: LHSilli (chatzilla@84.208.110.159)
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  522. # [19:07] <Zakim> -DanC
  523. # [19:08] <Zakim> -[apple]
  524. # [19:08] <Zakim> HTML_WG()12:00PM has ended
  525. # [19:08] <Zakim> Attendees were +1.218.340.aabb, DanC, dsinger, Matt_May, Shepazu, Sam, Cynthia_Shelly, Joe_Williams, ChrisWilson, LauraCarlson, +49.251.280.aacc, Julian
  526. # [19:13] * Quits: Laura (lauracarls@131.212.98.217) (Quit: Laura)
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  530. # [19:49] <pimpbot> planet: CSS Video Effects <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ajaxian/~3/iFY1nVsuEo4/css-video-effects>
  531. # [19:55] * Quits: ChrisWilson (cwilso@131.107.0.102) (Ping timeout)
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  534. # [20:50] <pimpbot> planet: Android: Now beaming I/O videos and presentations to the world <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/blogspot/Dcni/~3/3cpMsNXs_-Y/android-now-beaming-io-videos-and.html>
  535. # [21:22] * Quits: adele (adele@17.246.18.115) (Quit: adele)
  536. # [21:40] <pimpbot> changes: Map SHIFT_JIS to Win31J. (whatwg r3188) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Jun/0034.html>
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  549. # [23:55] * Parts: billmason (bmason@69.30.57.106)
  550. # Session Close: Fri Jun 05 00:00:01 2009

The end :)