/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2009-11-03 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Nov 03 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  7. # [00:30] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7381] Clarify default encoding wording and add some examples for non-latin locales. <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Nov/0014.html>
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  11. # [00:56] <pimpbot> planet: Why do we have an IMG element? <http://diveintomark.org/archives/2009/11/02/why-do-we-have-an-img-element>
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  13. # [01:00] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 8151] New: "If the resulting value is not a recognized language code, then it must be treated as an unknown language (as if the value was the empty string)." -- consider how this interacts with CSS :lang(), with passthrough/roundtripping, screen readers that recogni <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Nov/0015.html>
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  21. # [01:30] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 8153] New: "The default is start. Other values are ignored." (et passim) would read better if the sentences are reversed ("possible values are [...]. Other values are ignored. The default is [...].") <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Nov/0018.html> ** [Bug 8152] Consider removing the <progress> and <meter> fallback magic <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Nov/0017.html> ** [B
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  25. # [01:55] <rubys> Hixie: re: "XML documents that use elements or attributes from the HTML namespace and that are served over the wire (e.g. by HTTP) must be sent using an XML MIME type such as application/xml or application/xhtml+xml and must not be served as text/html. [RFC3023]", does this mean that I must not serve my weblog to IE as text/html?
  26. # [01:56] <pimpbot> planet: A State of the Web via October Tweets <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ajaxian/~3/nn4titvKl4g/a-state-of-the-web-via-october-tweets>
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  28. # [02:07] <Hixie> rubys: is it polyglot? if so, it's not an XML document for your purposes
  29. # [02:08] <rubys> it is polyglot. I am in a meeting with the tag, and they read that sentence in the document as prohibiting what I am doing. I can understand that interpretation of that sentence, and as such I believe that sentence needs to be clarified.
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  31. # [02:10] <Hixie> yeah i could see confusion there
  32. # [02:10] <Hixie> i didn't intend to outlaw polyglots, which i guess this does
  33. # [02:11] <hober> My understanding of that sentence is that a fooml (application of xml, effectively other than XHTML) document which contains (as descendents of its root element) HTML elements must not be served as text/html
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  35. # [02:11] <Hixie> rubys: can you file a bug saying that i should fix the language to ensure that polyglots are allowed to be sent as either?
  36. # [02:12] <rubys> will do. My understanding is that the intent is to say that user agents are to interpret data served as text/html using the HTML rules in this document, nothing more, nothing less.
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  46. # [02:56] <pimpbot> planet: Participating at W3C’s TPAC 2009 <http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2009/11/02/participating-at-w3c-s-tpac-2009.aspx>
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  51. # [03:57] <pimpbot> planet: HTML5 Canvas resize to fit window <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1664785/html5-canvas-resize-to-fit-window>
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  54. # [05:31] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 8154] New: Make it clear that serving polyglot documents as text/html is OK <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Nov/0019.html>
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  63. # [10:58] <pimpbot> planet: HTML 5 <video> tag vs Flash video. What are the pros and cons? <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1086886/html-5-video-tag-vs-flash-video-what-are-the-pros-and-cons>
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  67. # [12:35] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 8155] New: jvndjnvfdjnvdfb <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Nov/0020.html>
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  72. # [16:00] <pimpbot> planet: Firefox 3.6, add-ons, privacy + security, education, Fennec, SUMO, Firebug, Drumbeat, and more… <http://blog.mozilla.com/about_mozilla/2009/11/03/firefox-3-6-add-ons-privacy-security-education-fennec-sumo-firebug-drumbeat-and-more/>
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  90. # [17:36] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 8156] New: I think the "the" is extraneous. Should be "It indicates that no referrer information is to be leaked..." <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Nov/0021.html>
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  112. # [18:55] <mib_rx4aceor> http://celebislegends.forumfree.net/
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  114. # [18:55] <pimpbot> Title: Celebis Legends [Download Pokmon Cuore Doro e Anima Dargento, Download rom NDS e other] (at celebislegends.forumfree.net)
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  117. # [19:01] <DanC> ugh... no google gears on safari 4?
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  121. # [19:04] <Philip> DanC: No Gears on Safari 4 on Snow Leopard
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  123. # [19:04] <Philip> (according to http://code.google.com/p/gears/issues/detail?id=847 etc)
  124. # [19:04] <pimpbot> Title: Issue 847 - gears - [Mac] [Safari 4] [Snow Leopard] Gears not working Safari 4 - Snow Leopard - Project Hosting on Google Code (at code.google.com)
  125. # [19:04] <Philip> You should use HTML5 features, not Gears ;-)
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  128. # [19:06] <DanC> how? my goal is to use google docs offline. shortest path I can see is switching (back) to firefox. (I was sorta trying out safari for a while.)
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  131. # [19:06] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 8154] Make it clear that serving polyglot documents as text/html is OK <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Nov/0023.html> ** [Bug 8143] [gsnedders] Need to add EOF here, as <xmp>foo</xmp behaviour changed when removing content model flags (also to similar RCDATA state). <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Nov/0022.html>
  132. # [19:06] <Philip> DanC: I suppose that means you have to wait until Google starts using HTML5 features for Google Docs instead of Gears
  133. # [19:07] <Philip> which might take a while
  134. # [19:07] <Hixie> we're trying to move to html5 rather than use gears in general
  135. # [19:08] <Hixie> so i'm not surprised there's no gears for safari 4
  136. # [19:09] <DanC> I see.
  137. # [19:10] <MikeSmith> http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2009/11/02/participating-at-w3c-s-tpac-2009.aspx
  138. # [19:10] <pimpbot> Title: IEBlog : Participating at W3C’s TPAC 2009 (at blogs.msdn.com)
  139. # [19:18] <DanC> Gears continues to work with Firefox on Mac OS X.
  140. # [19:18] <DanC> heh... 3.5" floppy disk icon for offline storage. I doubt my kids have ever seen one of those; hardly iconic for them.
  141. # [19:19] <mjs> SnowLeopard breaks a lot of mechanisms that people used to use for code injection to make "haxies"
  142. # [19:20] <Philip> And doesn't provide new mechanisms that satisfy the same user demand?
  143. # [19:24] * DanC gets wierd sync errors... hmm... oh well... will use online for now
  144. # [19:25] <mjs> I'm sure there's still possible ways to do code injection, but it's not specifically a goal for Apple to let third parties inject native code into apps against their will
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  148. # [19:27] <Philip> And it's also not a goal to allow users to make their computers have all the features that they want and that third parties are willing to implement? :-)
  149. # [19:28] <DanC> I gather apple prioritizes security over that sort of flexibility. works for me.
  150. # [19:28] <Philip> Only works for you because you can switch to Firefox :-p
  151. # [19:29] <DanC> not just that... I can switch to Ubuntu
  152. # [19:29] <annevk> Ubuntu is nice
  153. # [19:29] <DanC> I maintain a multi-platform environment on purpose
  154. # [19:29] <DanC> used to be Windows/linux; these days it's OS X/linux.
  155. # [19:30] <DanC> linux for (almost) pure open source stuff to use as well as to develop; windows/apple for more of a consumer experience
  156. # [19:30] <DanC> what I'm learning today is that gears isn't consumer technology yet. not all that surprising.
  157. # [19:32] <annevk> I think the plan is to move away from Gears
  158. # [19:32] * DanC notes we covered that a few minutes ago
  159. # [19:32] <tantek> Gears was/is a good proof of concept.
  160. # [19:32] <Philip> Not surprising given the name - the only consumer technology gears I've seen are Lego Technic ones
  161. # [19:33] <DanC> perhaps more precisely: offline web apps aren't consumer technology yet.
  162. # [19:33] <Philip> Oh, and Meccano I suppose
  163. # [19:33] <annevk> DanC, I was somewhat confused by your "yet"
  164. # [19:33] <tantek> good to see implementations illustrate the utility of potential new standards, even if the implementations themselves are non-standard.
  165. # [19:33] <annevk> Flash is nice for that too
  166. # [19:34] <tantek> DanC - IE5/Mac shipped with numerous offline web apps / user features. Offline mode. Savable web archive files (with optional user specified link depth). Auction manager - with data/state available offline. Offline favorites/subscriptions.
  167. # [19:34] * tantek keeps bringing up history from 10 years ago in various meetings.
  168. # [19:35] * Philip wonders if you could implement a web crawler using IE5/Mac with large link depth
  169. # [19:36] <DanC> yes, I remember a lot of those features, tantek; are they still supported?
  170. # [19:36] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 8155] jvndjnvfdjnvdfb <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Nov/0024.html>
  171. # [19:37] <DanC> I seem to recall offline subscriptions sorta bit-rotting; v. disappointing.
  172. # [19:40] <tantek> Philip - link depth was capped at 5 IIRC.
  173. # [19:40] <tantek> DanC - IE5/Mac itself is no longer supported. Ergo...
  174. # [19:41] <DanC> and the features didn't make it into IE/Win? I thought offline subscriptions did; I think I used it on WinNT
  175. # [19:42] <DanC> odd... the "Documents" menu link goes inactive when I'm editing a google doc. how do I get back to the list of documents? ugh.
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  182. # [20:20] <MikeSmith> annevk, mjs - Larry tells me i18n WG is having discussion of IRIs from 1pm to 3pm today.. Hixie says the room is up on the 12th floor
  183. # [20:20] <annevk> k
  184. # [20:20] <annevk> no idea whether I can make that
  185. # [20:21] <annevk> there's too much going on
  186. # [20:21] <MikeSmith> yeah
  187. # [20:21] <annevk> the avoiding overlap with html5 might have been a bad idea I think
  188. # [20:21] <annevk> maybe we should try a W3C barcamp TPAC or something
  189. # [20:23] <mjs> MikeSmith: I heard - I'm probably interested, but I'm not sure what else is happening at that time
  190. # [20:26] <annevk> offline apis
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  192. # [20:33] <annevk> q+
  193. # [20:33] <annevk> wc
  194. # [20:34] <Hixie> q+! q+!!!
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  200. # [21:07] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 8143] [gsnedders] Need to add EOF here, as <xmp>foo</xmp behaviour changed when removing content model flags (also to similar RCDATA state). <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Nov/0025.html>
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  219. # [22:22] <mjs> so is this IRI discussion happening?
  220. # [22:22] <mjs> and if so where is it?
  221. # [22:23] <MikeSmith> mjs: it's happening, we're up in the 12th floor
  222. # [22:25] <MikeSmith> the meeting room looks like a normal hotel room from the outside
  223. # [22:27] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@72.254.56.137)
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  228. # [22:37] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 5758] insufficient accessibility fallback for <audio> or <video> <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Nov/0027.html> ** [Bug 7721] Drag and Drop is not keyboard accessible <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Nov/0026.html>
  229. # [22:59] * Quits: Laura (lauracarls@131.212.98.217) (Quit: Laura)
  230. # [23:07] * Quits: CIA-1 (CIA@208.69.182.149) (Ping timeout)
  231. # [23:07] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7011] [in off-bug discussion] canvas accessible fallback provision is under specified <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Nov/0029.html> ** [Bug 8171] New: Implement the text alternatives proposal from WAI <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Nov/0028.html>
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  238. # [23:38] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7721] Drag and Drop is not keyboard accessible <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Nov/0030.html>
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  246. # Session Close: Wed Nov 04 00:00:00 2009

The end :)