/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2010-08-05 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Aug 05 00:00:00 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
  3. # [00:13] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 9602] Autofocus attribute. <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0070.html>
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  6. # [00:43] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: idioms: main content (whatwg r5237) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Aug/0016.html>
  7. # [00:43] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 9602] Autofocus attribute." (2 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0071.html>
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  10. # [01:13] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Make DOMContentLoaded bubble. (whatwg r5240) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Aug/0019.html> ** hixie: ack for previous checkin (whatwg r5239) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Aug/0018.html> ** hixie: reorder for clarity and xref (whatwg r5238) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Aug/0017.html>
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  12. # [01:43] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 9578] On http-state it was mentioned that browsers support Set-Cookie here. Ugh! <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0074.html> ** [Bug 9663] Should sequences of bytes be replaced by a single U+FFFD, or one U+FFFD per input byte? <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0073.html> ** [Bug 9797] <meta http-equiv="Link"> not addressed by spec <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Pu
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  22. # [04:44] <pimpbot> changes: mike: style changes + typo fix from plh <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Aug/0020.html>
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  26. # [06:20] <dydz> Without loss of generality, suppose an <input id="A" type="text"> currently has focus. Calling window.focus() should perform the unfocusing steps on A according to section 7.4.2 of the HTML 5 spec. <http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/editing.html#focus-management>, correct?
  27. # [06:20] <pimpbot> Title: 7 User interaction HTML5 (at www.w3.org)
  28. # [06:22] <dydz> Section 7.4.3 "Document-level focus APIs" doesn't seem to elaborate on this behavior.
  29. # [06:24] <dydz> But the last paragraph of section 7.4.2 "When an element that is focused stops being a focusable element, or stops being focused ..." seems to imply that we should perform the unfocusing steps on A.
  30. # [07:04] <Hixie> window.focus() does nothing
  31. # [07:04] <Hixie> in particular, it doesn't affect the focus of elements in the window
  32. # [07:04] <Hixie> "The focus() method on the Window object, when invoked, provides a hint to the user agent that the script believes the user might be interested in the contents of the browsing context of the Window object on which the method was invoked."
  33. # [07:04] <Hixie> (http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/complete.html#dom-window-focus)
  34. # [07:04] <pimpbot> Title: Web Applications 1.0 (at www.whatwg.org)
  35. # [07:11] <Hixie> (dydz: ^)
  36. # [07:11] <dydz> Hixie: hi
  37. # [07:22] <dydz> Hixie: Then <https://bugs.webkit.org/attachment.cgi?id=46333> is correct as is?
  38. # [07:23] <dydz> That seems weird.
  39. # [07:24] <Hixie> that's a big test, what specifically am i looking to check?
  40. # [07:25] <dydz> Hixie: The description at the top
  41. # [07:25] <Hixie> that description is incorrect
  42. # [07:25] <Hixie> as far as i can tell
  43. # [07:26] <dydz> Is the correct expected result: (window, blur), (<iframe>, focus), (<input>, focus) ?
  44. # [07:26] <Hixie> focus() on a Window object has no effect on the focus of controls
  45. # [07:27] <Hixie> as far as I can tell, nothing in HTML ever fires 'blur' on Window objects
  46. # [07:27] <Hixie> or 'focus' for that matter
  47. # [07:28] <dydz> Hixie: We fire blur on the window when you click the <iframe>
  48. # [07:28] <dydz> (and hence focus the iframe)
  49. # [07:29] <Hixie> do any other browsers do that?
  50. # [07:29] <dydz> Hixie: We can make the change. I'm curious why delivering a focus() or blur() event to the window is being phased out.
  51. # [07:29] <Hixie> focus() event? do you mean a 'focus' event or the focus() method?
  52. # [07:29] <dydz> Yes, Firefox fires the blur() to the window
  53. # [07:30] <Hixie> the method?
  54. # [07:30] <Hixie> i'm confused
  55. # [07:30] <Hixie> if you're talking about events, rather than methods, then there's nothing being phased out, it's just not something that's been specced
  56. # [07:30] <Hixie> maybe it should be
  57. # [07:31] <Hixie> in which case figure out what the browsers do (especially IE) and send feedback to the list
  58. # [07:31] <Hixie> (or file a bug)
  59. # [07:31] <dydz> Hixie: I'm taking about events
  60. # [07:31] <dydz> Hixie: In particular, suppose you set a web page with an <input type="text"> in an <iframe> (just like the test case)
  61. # [07:31] <Hixie> k. for the record, "foo()" refers to a foo method, not a foo event :-)
  62. # [07:32] <dydz> Then, in JavaScript you call input.focus(); window.focus();
  63. # [07:32] <dydz> where input is the DOM element that corresponds to the <input type="text"> in the <iframe>
  64. # [07:34] <dydz> Hixie: Then are the events that should be fired: a blur event at the window, a focus event at the <iframe>, a focus event at the <input>?
  65. # [07:34] <dydz> From what you mentioned above, window.focus() does not fire a focus event at the window
  66. # [07:35] <Hixie> according to the spec, 'blur' never gets sent to any windows ever. this may be an omission in the spec.
  67. # [07:35] <Hixie> similarly, according to the spec, 'focus' never gets fired at an iframe, because iframes aren't focusable.
  68. # [07:36] <Hixie> so the only event the spec says should be fired is 'focus' at the input element
  69. # [07:36] <Hixie> now it's possible that the spec is wrong
  70. # [07:36] <Hixie> which you can determine by seeing if all the browsers do the same thing
  71. # [07:37] <Hixie> if they do, then the spec needs changing
  72. # [07:37] <Hixie> in which case, send mail and/or file a bug
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  74. # [07:44] <dydz> Hixie: On a side note, suppose the user clicks (using a mouse or touch input) the <input type="text"> within the <iframe>, then clicks some part of the background of the page.
  75. # [07:44] <dydz> Then an focus event would be fired on the <input>, a blur event would be fired on the <input>, and a focus event would be fired on the <body>, right?
  76. # [07:45] <Hixie> assuming there's a body element, yes
  77. # [07:45] <Hixie> other events might fire too
  78. # [07:45] <Hixie> e.g. 'change' on the input
  79. # [07:45] <dydz> right
  80. # [07:45] <Hixie> (not to mention the mouse events)
  81. # [07:45] <pimpbot> changes: mike: build tweak (moved IDs to html element (document element) in multipage output) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Aug/0021.html>
  82. # [07:47] <dydz> Hixie: For your reference, blur and focus events are fired on user click in both Safari and Firefox.
  83. # [07:47] <dydz> *blur and focus events on the window are fired
  84. # [07:47] <Hixie> i'm not able to track feedback right now unfortunately
  85. # [07:48] <Hixie> if you want me to change the spec please mail the list or file a bug
  86. # [07:51] <dydz> Hixie: ok. By the way, I put together a test <http://tersk.intudata.com/~dbates/webkit/debug-frame-focus.html> that you could use to see the focus and blur events being fired.
  87. # [07:51] <Hixie> cool
  88. # [07:51] <dydz> (if it interests you)
  89. # [07:52] <Hixie> include it in the mail and i'll look at it when i get to that point in the pile of feedback :-)
  90. # [07:52] <dydz> Hixie: thanks for you help, ok, I'll look to write an email to the list shortly.
  91. # [07:52] <Hixie> np, sorry i can't help more right now
  92. # [07:52] <dydz> I'm not exactly sure of the solution, but I'll at least explain the current state.
  93. # [07:53] <Hixie> knowing the problem is more useful for me than knowing a solution, fwiw :-)
  94. # [07:53] <Hixie> i can come up with solutions, coming up with problems is harder :-)
  95. # [07:56] <dydz> :-)
  96. # [07:56] <dydz> Hixie: I can come up with problems :P
  97. # [07:56] <Hixie> excellent :-)
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  101. # [08:26] * Topic is 'Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2010JulSep/0006.html'
  102. # [08:26] * Set by rubys on Thu Jul 22 17:25:01
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  109. # [09:46] <pimpbot> changes: mike: made markup-consistency fix from Dom <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Aug/0022.html>
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  119. # [11:16] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10296] New: your page is unusable! Freezes firefox 3 on Windows and Mac! <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0075.html>
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  124. # [12:47] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10298] Update the definition of BR from "a line break" to "a text-level thematic break." <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0080.html> ** [Bug 10298] New: Update the definition from "a line break" to "a text-level thematic break." <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0079.html> ** [Bug 10297] New: Update the definition from "a line break" to "a text-level thematic break.
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  128. # [13:17] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 10298] Update the definition of BR from "a line break" to "a text-level thematic break."" (2 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0081.html>
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  142. # [16:17] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 9602] Autofocus attribute. <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0082.html>
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  148. # [16:48] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 9602] Autofocus attribute." (5 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0086.html>
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  151. # [17:07] <Cesarino> Hi all
  152. # [17:08] <Cesarino> how do you set a video background with html5?
  153. # [17:13] <plh> you mean besides using css?
  154. # [17:16] <Cesarino> using the css
  155. # [17:16] <Cesarino> 3
  156. # [17:17] <plh> using css, the video element doesn't differ from others. of course, unless you make your video transparent, you won't see much of the background
  157. # [17:18] <Cesarino> you must set the video tag before the div#container?
  158. # [17:20] <plh> to be honest, I don't know what you're trying to do so it's difficult to answer
  159. # [17:21] <Cesarino> ok, sorry
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  162. # [17:23] <Cesarino> I mean, something like this? <video url> </video> <div id=container></div>
  163. # [17:23] <plh> you don't need to have a div@container to use the video tag
  164. # [17:23] <plh> s/@/#/
  165. # [17:24] <Cesarino> ok
  166. # [17:24] <plh> if you want to have a border around your video, you can use css and set the border at whatever size you want
  167. # [17:25] <plh> you can also increase the padding, and set a background color
  168. # [17:27] <Cesarino> But i want a video in the background, and a site on that..., like:
  169. # [17:28] <plh> oh, I see, that's different
  170. # [17:28] <plh> then use absolute positioning on your video
  171. # [17:28] <plh> and set the <video> tag before your container
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  173. # [17:29] <Cesarino> ah
  174. # [17:30] <plh> sorry, was slow to get what you were looking for
  175. # [17:30] <Cesarino> :-)
  176. # [17:30] <Cesarino> gona try that
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  178. # [17:48] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 9602] Autofocus attribute." (6 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0087.html>
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  187. # [18:00] <rubys> zakim, this will be html_wg
  188. # [18:00] <janina> zakim, call janina
  189. # [18:00] <Zakim> ok, rubys, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
  190. # [18:00] <Zakim> ok, janina; the call is being made
  191. # [18:00] <Zakim> +Janina
  192. # [18:00] <rubys> trackbot, start meeting
  193. # [18:00] * trackbot is preparing a teleconference
  194. # [18:00] <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
  195. # [18:00] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, trackbot
  196. # [18:01] <trackbot> Zakim, this will be html_wg
  197. # [18:01] <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
  198. # [18:01] <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference
  199. # [18:01] <trackbot> Date: 05 August 2010
  200. # [18:01] <dsinger> zakim, mute dsinger
  201. # [18:01] <Zakim> dsinger should now be muted
  202. # [18:01] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  203. # [18:01] <dsinger> zakim, who is here?
  204. # [18:01] <Zakim> On the phone I see dsinger (muted), Janina, [Microsoft]
  205. # [18:01] <Zakim> On IRC I see dsinger, Zakim, janina, rubys, arronei, adrianba, anne, Stevef, Cesarino, Yudai, webben, miketaylr, aroben, plh, MikeSmith, Julian, Lachy, gavin__, Peter, krijn, karl,
  206. # [18:01] <Zakim> ... tH, Martijnc, shepazu, laplink, jwm, hober, jmb, Shunsuke, johndrinkwater, CIA-1, inimino, drry, RRSAgent, trackbot, hsivonen, gavin_, Slaanesh, Philip, gsnedders, ed_work,
  207. # [18:01] * plh zakim, call plh-work
  208. # [18:01] <Zakim> ... scotfl, Hixie, jgraham, pimpbot, phenny
  209. # [18:01] * Zakim ok, plh; the call is being made
  210. # [18:01] <Zakim> +Plh
  211. # [18:01] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
  212. # [18:01] * Joins: paulc (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  213. # [18:02] <Zakim> +Sam
  214. # [18:02] <Zakim> + +49.251.280.aaaa
  215. # [18:02] <adrianba> zakim, [Microsoft.a] has adrianba, krisk
  216. # [18:02] <Zakim> +adrianba, krisk; got it
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  218. # [18:02] <Julian> Zakim, how could you forget?
  219. # [18:02] <Zakim> I don't understand your question, Julian.
  220. # [18:02] <adrianba> ScribeNick: adrianba
  221. # [18:02] <Julian> Zakim, +49.251.280.aaaa is me
  222. # [18:02] <Zakim> +Julian; got it
  223. # [18:02] <adrianba> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2010JulSep/0012.html
  224. # [18:02] <pimpbot> Title: {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2010-08-04 [task force week] from Sam Ruby on 2010-08-04 (public-html-wg-announce@w3.org from July to September 2010) (at lists.w3.org)
  225. # [18:02] <adrianba> Chair: Sam Ruby
  226. # [18:03] <adrianba> Scribe: Adrian Bateman
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  229. # [18:03] <paulc> zakim, who is on the call?
  230. # [18:03] <Zakim> On the phone I see dsinger (muted), Janina, [Microsoft], Plh, [Microsoft.a], Sam, Julian
  231. # [18:03] <Zakim> [Microsoft.a] has adrianba, krisk
  232. # [18:04] * dsinger we are silent? Or I have phone issues?
  233. # [18:04] <paulc> zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
  234. # [18:04] <Zakim> +paulc; got it
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  236. # [18:04] * dsinger thx
  237. # [18:04] <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
  238. # [18:04] <Zakim> +Radhika_Roy
  239. # [18:05] * Joins: krisk (836b004b@128.30.52.43)
  240. # [18:05] * dsinger top of the mornin to all
  241. # [18:06] * plh zakim, who is on the phone?
  242. # [18:06] * Zakim sees on the phone: dsinger (muted), Janina, [Microsoft], Plh, [Microsoft.a], Sam, Julian, Cynthia_Shelly, Radhika_Roy
  243. # [18:06] * Zakim [Microsoft] has paulc
  244. # [18:06] * Zakim [Microsoft.a] has adrianba, krisk
  245. # [18:07] <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
  246. # [18:07] <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
  247. # [18:07] <adrianba> TOPIC: ACTION items due by Thursday, Aug 5
  248. # [18:07] <adrianba> ACTION-184?
  249. # [18:07] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-184
  250. # [18:07] <trackbot> ACTION-184 -- Paul Cotton to ensure that someone in the WG is testing the new @rel registry setup by IANA -- due 2010-08-05 -- OPEN
  251. # [18:07] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/184
  252. # [18:07] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-184 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  253. # [18:07] <adrianba> paulc: haven't done anything on this because soon after the call maciej continued the mail thread
  254. # [18:08] <adrianba> ...and pointed julian at registration attempt
  255. # [18:08] <Julian> q+
  256. # [18:08] * Zakim sees Julian on the speaker queue
  257. # [18:08] <adrianba> ...this seems to be continuing on the list
  258. # [18:08] <adrianba> ...it's not obvious whether we have consensus about whether the attempt was valid
  259. # [18:08] <adrianba> ...but someone is trying out the system
  260. # [18:08] <adrianba> rubys: should close the action and consider opening others
  261. # [18:09] <rubys> ack next
  262. # [18:09] * Zakim sees Julian at the head of the speaker queue
  263. # [18:09] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  264. # [18:09] * Joins: mjs (mjs@69.181.42.237)
  265. # [18:09] <adrianba> julian: i asked for making progress a few weeks ago but it doesn't appear that we have made progress
  266. # [18:09] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.aa]
  267. # [18:09] <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
  268. # [18:09] <HTML> zakim, [Microsoft.aa] is me
  269. # [18:09] <Zakim> +HTML; got it
  270. # [18:09] <Zakim> + +1.415.595.aabb
  271. # [18:10] <Zakim> - +1.415.595.aabb
  272. # [18:10] <adrianba> rubys: sounds like action 184 is closed and next action is call for consensus
  273. # [18:10] <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
  274. # [18:10] <adrianba> julian: that's good
  275. # [18:10] <adrianba> paulc: that's an implicit call on the chairs for action
  276. # [18:10] <Zakim> + +1.415.595.aacc
  277. # [18:10] <rubys> close action-184
  278. # [18:10] * trackbot attempting to close ACTION-184.
  279. # [18:10] <trackbot> ACTION-184 Ensure that someone in the WG is testing the new @rel registry setup by IANA closed
  280. # [18:10] <adrianba> ...i took the action when i was in the chair to make sure we pushed this forward
  281. # [18:10] <adrianba> rubys: and maciej helped with this too
  282. # [18:10] * janina I need to step away for just a minute ... ...
  283. # [18:10] <adrianba> TOPIC: New Issues This Week
  284. # [18:11] <adrianba> rubys: None
  285. # [18:11] <adrianba> TOPIC: Working Group decisions
  286. # [18:11] * dsinger who is HTML at Microsoft?
  287. # [18:11] <adrianba> rubys: believe close to decision on issue 30
  288. # [18:11] <adrianba> ISSUE-30?
  289. # [18:11] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-30
  290. # [18:11] <trackbot> ISSUE-30 -- Should HTML 5 include a longdesc attribute for images -- open
  291. # [18:11] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/30
  292. # [18:11] <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-30 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  293. # [18:11] <adrianba> rubys: the rest are being worked on
  294. # [18:11] <adrianba> rubys: questions?
  295. # [18:11] <adrianba> TOPIC: Items Closing This Week
  296. # [18:11] <adrianba> rubys: None
  297. # [18:11] <adrianba> TOPIC: Items Closing Next Week
  298. # [18:12] <adrianba> ISSUE-41?
  299. # [18:12] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-41
  300. # [18:12] <trackbot> ISSUE-41 -- Decentralized extensibility -- open
  301. # [18:12] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/41
  302. # [18:12] <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-41 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  303. # [18:12] <adrianba> rubys: paul put out a call for advocates so we can reduce the number of proposals if possible
  304. # [18:12] <adrianba> ...the mailing list is active on this
  305. # [18:12] * Quits: dsinger (dsinger@67.218.106.59) (Quit: Rooms • iPhone IRC Client • http://www.roomsapp.mobi)
  306. # [18:12] <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
  307. # [18:12] <adrianba> paulc: i made the call for advocates to end at the end of next week
  308. # [18:12] <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
  309. # [18:12] <adrianba> ...wanted to do it for longer than one week in case people are away given it is summer
  310. # [18:13] <adrianba> ISSUE-89?
  311. # [18:13] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-89
  312. # [18:13] <trackbot> ISSUE-89 -- Remove Section 4.12 Common Idioms without dedicated Elements -- open
  313. # [18:13] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/89
  314. # [18:13] <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-89 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  315. # [18:13] <adrianba> ISSUE-92?
  316. # [18:13] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-92
  317. # [18:13] <trackbot> ISSUE-92 -- Re-write the Table section to remove extraneous material, and provide cleaner description -- open
  318. # [18:13] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/92
  319. # [18:13] <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-92 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  320. # [18:13] <adrianba> rubys: made a request that these proposals be updated
  321. # [18:13] <adrianba> ...see that this has been done but yet to review them
  322. # [18:13] <adrianba> ISSUE-110?
  323. # [18:13] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-110
  324. # [18:13] <trackbot> ISSUE-110 -- Change Control for text/html-sandboxed media type -- open
  325. # [18:13] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/110
  326. # [18:13] <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-110 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  327. # [18:13] <adrianba> rubys: actually has a month but people should be aware of this
  328. # [18:13] <adrianba> ...if people are interested they can work on this
  329. # [18:13] <adrianba> TOPIC: Current WG Surveys
  330. # [18:14] <adrianba> ISSUE-100?
  331. # [18:14] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-100
  332. # [18:14] <trackbot> ISSUE-100 -- Remove the srcdoc attribute from the HTML5 specification -- open
  333. # [18:14] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/100
  334. # [18:14] <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-100 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  335. # [18:14] * janina I'm back ..
  336. # [18:14] <adrianba> rubys: new survey started yesterday for one week
  337. # [18:14] <rubys> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/issue-100-objection-poll/
  338. # [18:14] <adrianba> rubys: everyone who wants to participate is encouraged to do so
  339. # [18:14] <adrianba> TOPIC: Task Force Reports - Accessibility Task Force
  340. # [18:15] <adrianba> janina: got a couple of things going on where it seems there are issues beyond the task force's ability to make progress
  341. # [18:15] <adrianba> ...we're discussing this and maciej has been meeting with some a11y tf people
  342. # [18:15] <adrianba> ...aria mapping is moving forward into a better state
  343. # [18:15] <adrianba> ...looks like this will take another couple of weeks to emerge in a more acceptable form
  344. # [18:16] <adrianba> ...the second issue is about canvas
  345. # [18:16] <adrianba> ...we have put forth a proposal about canvas that isn't fully acceptable to some people in the wg
  346. # [18:16] <adrianba> ...it's about focus ring, caret, and selection
  347. # [18:16] <adrianba> ...these are different on different OS
  348. # [18:16] <adrianba> ...which is problematic and it's not clear how to resolve
  349. # [18:17] <adrianba> ...may be a philosophical difference of opinion
  350. # [18:17] <adrianba> ...need to discuss how to move forward towards a resolution
  351. # [18:17] * HTML is now known as eliot
  352. # [18:17] <adrianba> ...that's forthcoming and we should plan to discuss on monday
  353. # [18:17] <adrianba> ...for drag and drop we're also somewhat blocked but we need responses from browser developers
  354. # [18:17] <adrianba> ...we have people committed to find us someone to work with
  355. # [18:17] <adrianba> ...on all these we're moving slower because of people away on vacation
  356. # [18:18] <adrianba> ...progress is happening but slower because it is august
  357. # [18:18] * Joins: dsinger (dsinger@17.197.20.4)
  358. # [18:18] <adrianba> ...on media when we met last week with chairs we talked about announcing to the wider group the availability of our user requirements
  359. # [18:18] <Zakim> +[Apple]
  360. # [18:18] <dsinger> zakim, [apple] has dsinger
  361. # [18:18] <Zakim> +dsinger; got it
  362. # [18:18] <adrianba> ...we want the main issue about timing to be discussed more widely than the tf
  363. # [18:18] <Zakim> -dsinger
  364. # [18:19] <adrianba> ...i was asked not to do that until the last edits have gone in
  365. # [18:19] <adrianba> ...hopefully this will be done fairly soon, hopefully before this meeting next week
  366. # [18:19] <adrianba> ...we know we have many different representations necessary, primary and then alternatives for different audiences
  367. # [18:19] <adrianba> ...we need to keep these appropriately synchronised even if they're not the same length
  368. # [18:20] <adrianba> ...we need to get this discussion out more widely
  369. # [18:21] <adrianba> TOPIC: Task Force Reports - Testing Task Force
  370. # [18:21] <adrianba> krisk: met last week as planned and will meet again 8/10
  371. # [18:21] <krisk> Notes -> http://www.w3.org/2010/07/27-htmlt-minutes.html
  372. # [18:21] <pimpbot> Title: SV_MEETING_TITLE -- 27 Jul 2010 (at www.w3.org)
  373. # [18:21] <adrianba> ...we approved 50 of the canvas tests and more are being reviewed
  374. # [18:22] <adrianba> ...some discussion about webidl and ability to delete dom objects
  375. # [18:22] <adrianba> ...decided they should not be deletable
  376. # [18:22] <adrianba> ...anne submitted tests for getElementsByClassName
  377. # [18:22] <adrianba> ...also james graham has been updating test harness to integrate new automated tests
  378. # [18:23] <adrianba> ...automated instead of manual
  379. # [18:23] <adrianba> ...updated test runner to generate results in xml
  380. # [18:23] <adrianba> ...it might move to json - we're discussing this
  381. # [18:23] <krisk> I created set of conformance reports http://test.w3.org/html/tests/reporting/report.htm
  382. # [18:23] <pimpbot> Title: HTML5 Conformance Test Results (at test.w3.org)
  383. # [18:23] <adrianba> ...conformance reports using the xml format across some different user agents
  384. # [18:23] <adrianba> ...we'd like other vendors to submit/update results
  385. # [18:24] <adrianba> ...even though it's summer lots of things going on
  386. # [18:24] <adrianba> ...that's it for today
  387. # [18:24] <paulc> Q+
  388. # [18:24] * Zakim sees paulc on the speaker queue
  389. # [18:24] <rubys> ack next
  390. # [18:24] * Zakim sees paulc at the head of the speaker queue
  391. # [18:24] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  392. # [18:24] <adrianba> paul: kris, you just asked for other vendors to get engaged - am i to take it that microsoft and opera are engaged but who else?
  393. # [18:25] <adrianba> krisk: there's a few independents who chime in from time to time
  394. # [18:25] <adrianba> ...but nothing really consistently from other browser vendors
  395. # [18:25] <adrianba> paul: i was trying to open up the link to the report.htm and i'm having trouble viewing it
  396. # [18:26] <adrianba> ...is it supposed to give results for different runs of the suite?
  397. # [18:26] <krisk> http://test.w3.org/html/tests/harness/harness.htm
  398. # [18:26] <adrianba> krisk: yes, if you go through the test runner
  399. # [18:26] <adrianba> ...and pass or fail all the tests then at the end you can generate results and it gives xml
  400. # [18:26] <adrianba> ...which can be submitted to hg
  401. # [18:27] <adrianba> ...if it's a new user agent it will show up on the report table
  402. # [18:27] <adrianba> paul: how are you controlling who can submit
  403. # [18:27] <adrianba> krisk: currently you can submit to hg - we'll see what happens and will manage it
  404. # [18:27] <adrianba> ...it's all audited through hg
  405. # [18:27] <adrianba> ...we want browser vendors to submit their own results
  406. # [18:28] <adrianba> paul: that's what i'm concerned about - i'm curious if plh has comments
  407. # [18:28] <adrianba> plh: i like what i'm seeing
  408. # [18:28] <adrianba> paul: i do too
  409. # [18:28] <adrianba> TOPIC: Misc items
  410. # [18:28] * Julian where can I get that modern browser?
  411. # [18:28] <adrianba> rubys: decision policy update
  412. # [18:29] <adrianba> mjs: there is one small drafting task left and then we will want review
  413. # [18:29] <adrianba> ...there's been a large number of bugs dealt with
  414. # [18:29] <adrianba> rubys: questions?
  415. # [18:29] <adrianba> rubys: HTML WG status
  416. # [18:29] <adrianba> ...done one back in March
  417. # [18:29] <adrianba> paul: continue to work on this
  418. # [18:30] <adrianba> ...plh did one for an AB meeting in early july
  419. # [18:30] <adrianba> ...believe another AB meeting coming up
  420. # [18:30] <adrianba> ...don't think plh got to present last report
  421. # [18:30] <adrianba> ...are the slides public?
  422. # [18:30] <adrianba> plh: believe so
  423. # [18:30] <plh> --> http://www.w3.org/2010/Talks/0715-html-plh/Overview.html HTML5 Update
  424. # [18:30] <pimpbot> Title: HTML 5 Update (at www.w3.org)
  425. # [18:30] <adrianba> paul: need to get this level of information directly to the AC
  426. # [18:30] <adrianba> ...need to finish drafting this alongside the information plh has
  427. # [18:31] <adrianba> ...definitely on my to do list
  428. # [18:31] <adrianba> rubys: questions?
  429. # [18:31] <adrianba> TOPIC: Other business
  430. # [18:31] <adrianba> rubys: floor is open
  431. # [18:31] <adrianba> TOPIC: Scribe for next meeting
  432. # [18:31] <adrianba> rubys: maciej is chairing, volunteers?
  433. # [18:31] <adrianba> ...plh has volunteered
  434. # [18:31] <adrianba> TOPIC: Adjournment
  435. # [18:32] <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
  436. # [18:32] <adrianba> rubys: adjourned, thanks everyone
  437. # [18:32] <Zakim> -[Apple]
  438. # [18:32] <Zakim> -Plh
  439. # [18:32] <Zakim> -Julian
  440. # [18:32] <Zakim> -Sam
  441. # [18:32] <Zakim> - +1.415.595.aacc
  442. # [18:32] * Quits: Mark (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Quit: Page closed)
  443. # [18:32] <Zakim> -Janina
  444. # [18:32] * Parts: janina (janina@66.92.170.178)
  445. # [18:32] <Zakim> -HTML
  446. # [18:32] * Quits: dsinger (dsinger@17.197.20.4) (Quit: dsinger)
  447. # [18:32] <Zakim> -Radhika_Roy
  448. # [18:32] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
  449. # [18:32] * Quits: eliot (eliot@131.107.0.84) (Quit: A day without sunshine is like .... night)
  450. # [18:32] * Quits: krisk (836b004b@128.30.52.43) (Quit: CGI:IRC)
  451. # [18:32] <adrianba> rrsagent, make minutes
  452. # [18:32] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/05-html-wg-minutes.html adrianba
  453. # [18:33] <adrianba> rrsagent, make logs public
  454. # [18:33] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, adrianba
  455. # [18:43] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  456. # [18:43] <Zakim> HTML_WG()12:00PM has ended
  457. # [18:43] <Zakim> Attendees were dsinger, Janina, Plh, Sam, adrianba, krisk, Julian, paulc, Cynthia_Shelly, Radhika_Roy, [Microsoft], HTML, +1.415.595.aabb, +1.415.595.aacc
  458. # [18:43] <adrianba> rrsagent, make minutes
  459. # [18:43] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/05-html-wg-minutes.html adrianba
  460. # [18:43] <pimpbot> Title: HTML Weekly Teleconference -- 05 Aug 2010 (at www.w3.org)
  461. # [18:49] * Quits: adrianba (adrianba@131.107.0.98) (Quit: Bye!)
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  473. # [20:26] <Cesarino> have a question about video tag
  474. # [20:27] <Cesarino> witch video codec supports firefox and explorer?
  475. # [20:29] <Hixie> none today
  476. # [20:29] <Hixie> firefox currently supports Theora and WebM, I believe
  477. # [20:30] <Hixie> IE currently supports nothing; IE9 demos I believe support whatever you have locally installed which is presumably h.264 by default, but I could be wrong
  478. # [20:31] <Cesarino> i read something with IE a script for the video tag on google code could help. I tried ogg format for firefox, but doesn't work. :-(
  479. # [20:31] <plh> hu, ogg should work in firefox
  480. # [20:31] <plh> which version do you have?
  481. # [20:31] <Cesarino> firefox? 3.6
  482. # [20:31] <plh> yep, ought to work
  483. # [20:32] <plh> try this: http://test.w3.org/html/examples/elements/video/video02.html
  484. # [20:32] <pimpbot> Title: Video example (at test.w3.org)
  485. # [20:33] <plh> for WebM, you'll need firefox 4 (only in beta)
  486. # [20:36] <Cesarino> could it be that VLC player is a bad transcode prog?
  487. # [20:37] <plh> if you use an http server, it could be the media type
  488. # [20:38] <plh> if you don't use an http server, then yes, it may be vlc but I'd be surprised if it was the case
  489. # [20:40] <Cesarino> it's vlc, or i'm doing somthing wrong
  490. # [20:41] <plh> ffmpeg2theora will do a fine job at converting your video
  491. # [20:45] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
  492. # [20:45] * Parts: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.169)
  493. # [20:48] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 9602] Autofocus attribute." (7 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0088.html>
  494. # [20:49] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@84.215.59.50)
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  499. # [21:43] <pimpbot> planet: IE9 Platform Preview 4 <http://intertwingly.net/blog/2010/08/05/IE9-Platform-Preview-4>
  500. # [22:16] * Joins: mjs (mjs@17.246.16.203)
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  503. # [22:43] <pimpbot> planet: The HTML5 Parsing Algorithm <http://webkit.org/blog/1273/the-html5-parsing-algorithm/>
  504. # [22:43] <Cesarino> have a problem with video tag, I want to get it work in IE8, is it possible?
  505. # [22:44] <plh> nope
  506. # [22:45] <plh> you need to use a fallback
  507. # [22:45] <Cesarino> also not with script?
  508. # [22:45] <Cesarino> a
  509. # [22:45] <plh> not even with script, unless your script just do a fallback as well
  510. # [22:45] <plh> so, there is no real advantage of using script here
  511. # [22:46] <Cesarino> ok
  512. # [22:47] <Cesarino> now i don't understand fallback :-)
  513. # [22:50] <Cesarino> you mean linking to a script, like this? script src="http://html5media.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/src/html5media.min.js"
  514. # [22:51] <plh> something like that http://camendesign.com/code/video_for_everybody
  515. # Session Close: Fri Aug 06 00:00:00 2010

The end :)