/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2011-04-20 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Apr 20 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  6. # [00:50] <pimpbot> planet: openmatt: Making MoJo design challenges sing <http://openmatt.wordpress.com/2011/04/19/making-mojo-design-challenges-sing/>
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  9. # [01:20] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 12524] New: It would be nice if you could see the pretty glowing lines <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Apr/0439.html>
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  20. # [01:51] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 10828] i18n comment 4 : at least by default, <br> should constitute a bidi paragraph break" (2 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Apr/0441.html>
  21. # [02:21] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 12525] New: Probably several of these are not good indicators. I think at least <th> and cellspacing/cellpadding are not good indicators. Needs more research. <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Apr/0442.html>
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  25. # [02:48] <CIA-1> html-spec: ianh@340c8d12-0b0e-0410-8428-c7bf67bfef74 * 57fc8db46b61 r6017 / (index complete.html source): [giow] (0) Rework MediaController so that it exposes more events so that you can keep track of the overall state.
  26. # [02:51] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Rework MediaController so that it exposes more events so that you can keep track of the overall state. (whatwg r6018) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2011Apr/0090.html>
  27. # [03:03] <CIA-1> html-spec: ianh@340c8d12-0b0e-0410-8428-c7bf67bfef74 * 4d9a89aa9e5f r6018 / (index complete.html source): [giow] (0) Expose a combined .played on MediaController
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  35. # [04:51] <pimpbot> changes: sam: Add bug 12526 to issue 31 <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2011Apr/0091.html>
  36. # [04:51] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 8716] Replace img Guidance for Conformance Checkers with Suggested Text for Short Text Alternatives <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Apr/0446.html> ** [Bug 8646] Private communication exception <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Apr/0445.html> ** [Bug 12526] image verbiage <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Apr/0444.html> ** [Bug 12526] New
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  48. # [06:22] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 12527] no formal definition for allowed id syntax" (2 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Apr/0450.html> ** [Bug 12528] New: feedback form borked <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Apr/0448.html> ** [Bug 12527] New: no formal definition for allowed id syntax <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Apr/0447.html>
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  50. # [07:52] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 12527] no formal definition for allowed id syntax" (3 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Apr/0451.html>
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  55. # [10:53] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 12529] Fix HAVE_METADATA and HAVE_CURRENT_DATA when seeking and at playback end" (2 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Apr/0454.html> ** [Bug 12526] image verbiage <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Apr/0453.html> ** [Bug 12529] New: Fix HAVE_METADATA and HAVE_CURRENT_DATA when seeking and at playback end <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html
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  59. # [11:23] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 12531] New: Change the way that select tag and its height works <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Apr/0460.html> ** [Bug 12245] @size on <select> drop-downs is not enough to specify the drop-down maxlength on long options lists with scrollbars <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Apr/0459.html> ** [Bug 8375] Mention that when in "in select in table", there is always a "select"
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  67. # [12:53] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 11981] There's a race condition with autoplay if the autoplay attribute is removed in e.g. 'loadstart' event listener <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Apr/0466.html> ** [Bug 12267] Make video state transitions happen in the same task as firing events <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Apr/0465.html> ** [Bug 12531] Change the way that select tag and its height works <http:
  68. # [12:53] <pimpbot> planet: Steve Faulkner: HTML5 Accessibility Chops: Just use a (native HTML) button <http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2011/04/html5-accessibility-chops-just-use-a-button/>
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  72. # [13:23] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 12532] Asp.net is the best way to work <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Apr/0469.html> ** [Bug 12532] New: Asp.net is the best way to work <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Apr/0468.html> ** [Bug 12175] the order of the loadedmetadata, loadeddata and suspend event is not defined <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Apr/0467.html>
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  77. # [14:24] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 12228] All Media Elements should have the ability to have both short and longer textual descriptions associated to the element. <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Apr/0470.html>
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  82. # [14:54] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 12533] New: Being able to control what the user agent is creating on a command would be useful. Otherwise I have to listen to DOM mutation events or parse my editable text to find out. <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Apr/0471.html>
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  84. # [16:11] <CIA-1> validator: Michael[tm] Smith <mike@w3.org> * 05607e55502f r376 validator/entity-map.txt: Replaced bogus DTD URL. b=818. Thanks Marcin Cieślak.
  85. # [16:12] <CIA-1> validator: Marcin Cieslak <saper@saper.info> * b893eb8c0260 r101 build/build.py:
  86. # [16:12] <CIA-1> validator: Workaround for temporary www.w3.org problems
  87. # [16:12] <CIA-1> validator: Increase HTTP timeout and ignore BadStatusLine
  88. # [16:12] <CIA-1> validator: exception because of some transient www.w3.org
  89. # [16:12] <CIA-1> validator: problems that mak fetching DTDs impossible.
  90. # [16:14] <Philip> (Yay DTDs)
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  95. # [16:54] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 12530] Make TrackList an Array-like list of Track objects and move get* into those" (2 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Apr/0473.html>
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  102. # [17:54] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 12267] Make video state transitions happen in the same task as firing events <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Apr/0474.html>
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  104. # [18:25] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 12267] Make video state transitions happen in the same task as firing events" (2 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Apr/0475.html>
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  107. # [19:55] <pimpbot> planet: ieblog: IE Feedback: Looking Back, Forging Ahead <http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2011/04/20/ie-feedback-looking-back-forging-ahead.aspx>
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  118. # [21:03] <sierk> Hi! One question: is there, by any means, anywhere, a definition, if in HTML (concrete: HTML 4.01) and/or it's parent, SGML, it's allowed and valid to shorten an entity (like &amp;) to "&;" (Ampersant + Semikolon) in a given <a href="URL with &; instead of &amp;"> construct, so that the W3C Markup Validator is right, in NOT labeling it as an error and let passing it as valid? Meaning: is it by any means correct and valid, to use "&;" instead of masking a "&
  119. # [21:03] <sierk> with "&amp;" in a given URL? When NOT valid, why does the W3C Markup Validator say so, while parsing/validating against HTML 4.01 strict -- and in contrast (and my expectation) throws an (from my point of view expectable and correct) error, when parsing/validating against XHTML 1.0 Strict while sticking to the Mimetype text/html)? Thanks.
  120. # [21:04] <sierk> P.S: Or might there be an error by the W3C Markup Validator in doing so and should be fixed?
  121. # [21:13] <plh> &amp; cannot be shorten to &;
  122. # [21:13] <plh> now I don't think &; should be saccepted as valid either
  123. # [21:13] <plh> s/sac/ac/
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  126. # [21:23] <sierk> plh: That's, what I wonder about. I've been of that opinion until today, too. Until I pasted a HTML 4 code fragment into the Validator's interface today and tried to validate it. A code fragment like that: <a href="http://maps.google.de/maps?f=q&amp;source=s_q&amp;hl=en&amp;geocode=&amp;...">BB</a>. The former it has been (via copy & paste): <a href="http://maps.google.de/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&...">. That throws indeed an error. But when you ch
  127. # [21:23] <sierk> the "&" into "&;" , so that it's <a href="http://maps.google.de/maps?f=q&;source=s_q&;hl=en&;geocode=&;...">, the validator throws no error and says, it's valid. And only, when validating against HTML 4.01 Strict. Overwriting it with a XHTML 1.0 Strict doctype by the validator's gui interface, the following (correct) error (or at least warning) occurs: Warning Line xx, Column yy: 'character "&" is the first character of a delimiter but occurred as data'...
  128. # [21:23] <sierk> who and what is right and valid? Is it possible to see "&;" as a a valid form of an (SGML or HTML or XML) Entity instead of masking it and writing a correct &amp;?
  129. # [21:23] <pimpbot> Title: Google Maps (at maps.google.de)
  130. # [21:23] <pimpbot> Title: Google Maps (at maps.google.de)
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  132. # [21:24] <plh> XML is clear that &; isn't allowed
  133. # [21:25] <plh> see http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#NT-EntityRef
  134. # [21:25] <pimpbot> Title: Extensible Markup Language (XML) 1.0 (Fifth Edition) (at www.w3.org)
  135. # [21:25] <sierk> plh: Yes, I think so, too. And until today, I also thought about it either concerning SGML and HTML...
  136. # [21:26] <plh> for SGML, I'd be surprised if this was valid as well, but I can't check that fact right now
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  138. # [21:29] <sierk> plh: Thanks for pointing me to this particular chapter of the spec. That's a good help. May it be, that The markup validator has got a bug there and should instead throw an error, at least a warning, than parsing it commendless and saying, it's valid HTML 4.01 Strict?
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  140. # [21:32] <plh> that seems right to me. you might want to report that back to the validator mailing list
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  142. # [21:33] <sierk> plh: what seems right for you? That there is possible an error of the validator's parser, or that it's OK, and there is no error with the validator's parser?
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  144. # [21:33] <plh> error of the validator's parser
  145. # [21:33] <sierk> plh: OK.
  146. # [21:35] <plh> the html5 validator reports an error btw
  147. # [21:35] <plh> Error: & did not start a character reference. (& probably should have been escaped as &amp;.)
  148. # [21:35] <plh> www.w3.org/sdfgfd&;dfgs
  149. # [21:35] <sierk> plh: I've sent a PM to Ville Skyttä (who is one of the core maintainers of the validator) some minutes ago. Before asking on the mailing list, I ask him personally.
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  152. # [21:37] <sierk> plh: HTML5 parser: yes, that's what I expect in all cases, also in HTML 4. Validating against XHTML 1.0 this throws such an error, too. But against HTML4: no error, valid.
  153. # [21:43] <sierk> plh: Thanks so far.
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  161. # [22:48] <CIA-1> html-spec: ianh@340c8d12-0b0e-0410-8428-c7bf67bfef74 * 3b29e01298ed r6019 / (index complete.html source): [e] (0) Clarify that <video> and <audio> can both be used for both audio and video.
  162. # [22:56] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Clarify that <video> and <audio> can both be used for both audio and video. (whatwg r6020) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2011Apr/0092.html>
  163. # [23:26] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 12530] Make TrackList an Array-like list of Track objects and move get* into those <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Apr/0476.html>
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The end :)