/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2012-05-17 / end

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  137. # [18:08] <glenn> zakim, who's here?
  138. # [18:08] <Zakim> sorry, glenn, I don't know what conference this is
  139. # [18:08] <Zakim> On IRC I see ddorwin, Jay, acolwell, adrianba, Milan_Patel, eliot, dsinger, vimeo_joe, jet, J_Voracek, hober, glenn, davidb, logbot, shepazu, Dashiva, nonge, kennyluck, icaaq,
  140. # [18:08] <Zakim> ... tantek, mjs, gavin, hiro_away, anne, krijnh, johndrinkwater, timeless, pingo, hsivonen, ed, Jedi, Hixie, arronei, RRSAgent, paul___irish, odinho, jgraham, jmb, Philip,
  141. # [18:08] <Zakim> ... heycam|away, trackbot, decadance, lgombos, rektide, [tm], gsnedders, inimino, CIA-1
  142. # [18:08] <adrianba> trackbot, start telcon
  143. # [18:08] * trackbot is preparing a teleconference
  144. # [18:08] <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
  145. # [18:08] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, trackbot
  146. # [18:08] <trackbot> Zakim, this will be html_wg
  147. # [18:08] <glenn> zakim, this is html
  148. # [18:08] <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference
  149. # [18:08] <trackbot> Date: 17 May 2012
  150. # [18:08] <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
  151. # [18:08] <Zakim> html matches both HTML_WG()12:00PM and WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM, glenn
  152. # [18:08] <Zakim> +[Apple]
  153. # [18:08] * Joins: rubys (rubys@98.27.59.167)
  154. # [18:08] <hober> Zakim, Apple has hober
  155. # [18:08] <Zakim> +hober; got it
  156. # [18:08] <glenn> zakim, who's here?
  157. # [18:08] <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P4, [GVoice], +25686aaaa, Aaron, [Apple]
  158. # [18:08] <Zakim> [Apple] has hober
  159. # [18:08] <Zakim> On IRC I see rubys, Zakim, ddorwin, Jay, acolwell, adrianba, Milan_Patel, eliot, dsinger, vimeo_joe, jet, J_Voracek, hober, glenn, davidb, logbot, shepazu, Dashiva, nonge,
  160. # [18:08] <Zakim> ... kennyluck, icaaq, tantek, mjs, gavin, hiro_away, anne, krijnh, johndrinkwater, timeless, pingo, hsivonen, ed, Jedi, Hixie, arronei, RRSAgent, paul___irish, odinho, jgraham,
  161. # [18:08] <Zakim> ... jmb, Philip, heycam|away, trackbot, decadance, lgombos, rektide, [tm], gsnedders, inimino, CIA-1
  162. # [18:09] * Joins: paulc (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  163. # [18:09] <Milan_Patel> Present+ Milan_Patel
  164. # [18:09] <glenn> zakim, ??p4 is me
  165. # [18:09] <Zakim> +glenn; got it
  166. # [18:09] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  167. # [18:09] <Zakim> +Sam
  168. # [18:09] * Joins: MFoladare (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  169. # [18:09] <adrianba> zakim, [Microsoft] is me
  170. # [18:09] <Zakim> +adrianba; got it
  171. # [18:09] * Joins: Clarke (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  172. # [18:09] <adrianba> ScribeNick: adrianban
  173. # [18:09] * Joins: joesteele (joesteele@192.150.10.201)
  174. # [18:09] <adrianba> Scribe: Adrian Batemann
  175. # [18:09] <adrianba> Chair: Sam Rubyn
  176. # [18:09] <adrianba> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2012AprJun/0014.htmln
  177. # [18:10] <Zakim> +Radhika_Roy
  178. # [18:10] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  179. # [18:10] <Zakim> +joesteele
  180. # [18:10] <Zakim> +??P53
  181. # [18:10] <paulc> zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
  182. # [18:10] <Zakim> +paulc; got it
  183. # [18:10] <Clarke> zakim, ??P53 is me
  184. # [18:10] <Zakim> +Clarke; got it
  185. # [18:11] <Zakim> + +1.206.850.aabb
  186. # [18:11] <Zakim> - +1.206.850.aabb
  187. # [18:11] <adrianba> TOPIC: ACTION items due by Thursday, May 17n
  188. # [18:11] <adrianba> ACTION-210?
  189. # [18:11] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-210
  190. # [18:11] <trackbot> ACTION-210 -- Sam Ruby to get JF to deliver a revised ISSUE-204 change proposal by next friday -- due 2012-05-10 -- OPEN
  191. # [18:11] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/210
  192. # [18:11] <adrianba> rubys: this has been done
  193. # [18:11] <rubys> close action-210
  194. # [18:11] * trackbot attempting to close ACTION-210.
  195. # [18:11] <trackbot> ACTION-210 Get JF to deliver a revised ISSUE-204 change proposal by next friday closed
  196. # [18:11] <Zakim> + +1.206.850.aacc
  197. # [18:11] <adrianba> ACTION-211?
  198. # [18:11] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-211
  199. # [18:11] <trackbot> ACTION-211 -- Sam Ruby to ted O'Connor to write up a video-transcript IDref proposal for ISSUE-194 by Fri May 11 -- due 2012-05-11 -- OPEN
  200. # [18:11] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/211
  201. # [18:11] <eliot> zakim, +1.206.850.aacc is me
  202. # [18:11] <Zakim> +eliot; got it
  203. # [18:12] <adrianba> hober: there's been a lot of progress on this over e-mail while i was gone - i think we're close to producing a consensus proposal
  204. # [18:12] <adrianba> ... probably by next week i would say
  205. # [18:12] <adrianba> ... can we extend until next week
  206. # [18:12] <eliot> zakim, mute me
  207. # [18:12] <Zakim> eliot should now be muted
  208. # [18:12] <adrianba> paulc: are you saying we will end up with a single proposal?
  209. # [18:13] <adrianba> hober: i think we'll end up with 2, one to defer and one that would substantively match the idref proposal
  210. # [18:13] * Quits: jet (jet@207.218.72.65) (Quit: jet)
  211. # [18:13] <adrianba> paulc: we'll still have to decide between a now feature and a future feature
  212. # [18:13] <adrianba> hober: yes
  213. # [18:13] <Zakim> +??P59
  214. # [18:13] <adrianba> rubys: the other proposal was to add transcript - will the consensus include john?
  215. # [18:14] <adrianba> hober: don't know - still catching up on mail
  216. # [18:14] <adrianba> rubys: could be consensus with silvia and not with john
  217. # [18:14] <adrianba> hober: that's possible
  218. # [18:14] <rubys> action-211 due 24 May
  219. # [18:14] * trackbot attempting to change due date on ACTION-211.
  220. # [18:14] <trackbot> ACTION-211 Ted O'Connor to write up a video-transcript IDref proposal for ISSUE-194 by Fri May 11 due date now 24 May
  221. # [18:14] <adrianba> paulc: if you could outline where the community lies when you update proposals that would be helpful
  222. # [18:14] <adrianba> ACTION-213?
  223. # [18:14] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-213
  224. # [18:14] <trackbot> ACTION-213 -- Sam Ruby to get JF to deliver a revised ISSUE-194 change proposal by next friday -- due 2012-05-11 -- OPEN
  225. # [18:14] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/213
  226. # [18:14] <adrianba> rubys: due last friday, anybody know the status?
  227. # [18:15] * Joins: janina (janina@69.140.165.18)
  228. # [18:15] <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
  229. # [18:15] <adrianba> paulc: i believe ted's previous description, john started doing this and silvia got involved - i think there is a mail on the archive asking for an extension
  230. # [18:15] <Zakim> +Judy
  231. # [18:15] * Joins: Judy (jbrewer@128.30.52.169)
  232. # [18:16] <adrianba> hober: if it would make it easier, consolidating the two actions might be useful
  233. # [18:16] <Zakim> +??P31
  234. # [18:16] <adrianba> rubys: i would like confirmation form john that he intends to support the consensus position
  235. # [18:16] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
  236. # [18:16] <adrianba> ... i will leave it as two actions and try to get in touch with john after the call
  237. # [18:16] <rubys> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2012AprJun/0016.html
  238. # [18:17] <adrianba> janina: we think we're coming to a single proposal that does include john
  239. # [18:17] <rubys> action-213 due 24 May
  240. # [18:17] * trackbot attempting to change due date on ACTION-213.
  241. # [18:17] <trackbot> ACTION-213 Get JF to deliver a revised ISSUE-194 change proposal by next friday due date now 24 May
  242. # [18:17] <adrianba> rubys: great news, moving this to next thursday also
  243. # [18:18] <adrianba> ACTION-217?
  244. # [18:18] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-217
  245. # [18:18] <trackbot> ACTION-217 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to create an updated Caret ring focus (Rich, Ted, Frank) ISSUE-201 CP -- due 2012-05-11 -- OPEN
  246. # [18:18] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/217
  247. # [18:18] <adrianba> rubys: on this we had a note from rich
  248. # [18:18] <rubys> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2012AprJun/0015.html
  249. # [18:18] <adrianba> hober: frank and rich have been emailing over the last week on this and i need to catch up on the thread - they've been making progress
  250. # [18:19] <adrianba> rubys: making progress but rich is on vacation for 2 weeks and he is asking for an extension to june 8
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  252. # [18:19] * Joins: J_Voracek (J_Voracek@76.184.40.47)
  253. # [18:19] <adrianba> hober: i think between now and then frank and i will be able to converge a lot more and then discuss with rich
  254. # [18:19] <adrianba> paulc: are there other people who need to involved here?
  255. # [18:19] <adrianba> janina: rich is the spearhead
  256. # [18:20] <rubys> action 217 due June 7
  257. # [18:20] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  258. # [18:20] <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 217
  259. # [18:20] <rubys> action-217 due june 7
  260. # [18:20] * trackbot attempting to change due date on ACTION-217.
  261. # [18:20] <trackbot> ACTION-217 Create an updated Caret ring focus (Rich, Ted, Frank) ISSUE-201 CP due date now june 7
  262. # [18:20] <adrianba> paulc: perhaps we could get a status report on this next week also
  263. # [18:21] <adrianba> hober: sounds good to me
  264. # [18:21] <adrianba> paulc: let's put it on the agenda for next week
  265. # [18:21] <adrianba> ACTION-216?
  266. # [18:21] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-216
  267. # [18:21] <trackbot> ACTION-216 -- Michael Cooper to update ISSUE-199 proposal based on Ted's -- due 2012-05-18 -- OPEN
  268. # [18:21] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/216
  269. # [18:21] <Jay> Zakim, Microsoft.a has Jay
  270. # [18:21] <Zakim> +Jay; got it
  271. # [18:21] <adrianba> paulc: i sent michael a private note on this matter and got an indication back that he thought the date was wrong
  272. # [18:22] <adrianba> hober: i'm hoping to have a call with michael about this
  273. # [18:22] * Joins: jet (jet@207.218.72.65)
  274. # [18:22] <adrianba> paulc: michael though the due date was may 25, perhaps we can make it may 24 for the call next week?
  275. # [18:22] <rubys> action-216 due 24 May
  276. # [18:22] * trackbot attempting to change due date on ACTION-216.
  277. # [18:22] <trackbot> ACTION-216 Update ISSUE-199 proposal based on Ted's due date now 24 May
  278. # [18:22] <adrianba> hober: sounds good
  279. # [18:22] <adrianba> rubys: okay
  280. # [18:22] <adrianba> ACTION-218?
  281. # [18:22] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-218
  282. # [18:22] <trackbot> ACTION-218 -- Paul Cotton to determine day and time for a weekly Media teleconference -- due 2012-05-22 -- OPEN
  283. # [18:22] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/218
  284. # [18:22] <paulc> Draft media teleconference survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/media/ (still closed and under Chair/Team review)
  285. # [18:23] <adrianba> paulc: i built a survey using wbs - that's a link to the draft - this is still closed
  286. # [18:23] <adrianba> ... i'm taking feedback from people including chairs and team
  287. # [18:23] <adrianba> ... i think i've taken everyone's feedback - this is available to w3c members outside the group because we believe there are some members who might join the WG to participate in this
  288. # [18:24] <adrianba> ... this should go out today
  289. # [18:25] <adrianba> ... since there may be more technical discussion in these calls we want to be as inclusive as possible
  290. # [18:25] <adrianba> janina: this is the media group in the WG not the a11y TF
  291. # [18:25] <adrianba> paulc: i will make that clear in the text for the survey
  292. # [18:25] <adrianba> ... action not yet done but almost
  293. # [18:26] <adrianba> TOPIC: New Issues This Week
  294. # [18:26] <adrianba> rubys: none
  295. # [18:26] <rubys> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2012AprJun/0014.html
  296. # [18:27] <adrianba> TOPIC: Items Closed Last Weekn
  297. # [18:27] <adrianba> ISSUE-184?
  298. # [18:27] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-184
  299. # [18:27] <trackbot> ISSUE-184 -- Add a data element -- open
  300. # [18:27] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/184
  301. # [18:27] <adrianba> rubys: given a deadline for revised change proposals and the revision is complete - next step is for the chairs to review the revised proposals
  302. # [18:27] <adrianba> TOPIC: Items Closing This Weekn
  303. # [18:27] <adrianba> ISSUE-205?
  304. # [18:27] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-205
  305. # [18:27] <trackbot> ISSUE-205 -- Define what author guidance and/or methods should be provided to those that wish to create accessible text editors using canvas as a rendering surface. -- open
  306. # [18:27] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/205
  307. # [18:27] <adrianba> rubys: given a deadline for revised proposals which is today
  308. # [18:28] <adrianba> ... so far not seen any revisions
  309. # [18:28] <adrianba> TOPIC: Items Closing Next Weekn
  310. # [18:28] <adrianba> rubys: None
  311. # [18:28] <adrianba> TOPIC: New Calls this weekn
  312. # [18:28] <adrianba> rubys: None
  313. # [18:28] <adrianba> TOPIC: New Surveys this weekn
  314. # [18:28] <adrianba> rubys: None
  315. # [18:28] <adrianba> TOPIC: Decisions this weekn
  316. # [18:28] <adrianba> rubys: None
  317. # [18:28] <adrianba> TOPIC: Other Businessn
  318. # [18:28] <adrianba> rubys: 31c re-open request
  319. # [18:29] <adrianba> judy: we received a response from sam on behalf of the chairs and we discussed that in the tf meeting this morning
  320. # [18:29] <adrianba> ... several concerns including the framing of the response
  321. # [18:30] <adrianba> ... we think what we received is ambiguous as either a review or denial of the request so we're taking it as a review that we intend to discuss a draft of next tuesday and forward with answers to questions raised
  322. # [18:30] <adrianba> ... i wanted to first establish if this was intended as a review or denial
  323. # [18:30] <adrianba> rubys: in some sense it is a denial but not intended to close the door - if you update then we'll review
  324. # [18:30] <adrianba> judy: in the current timeframe?
  325. # [18:31] <Zakim> +kstreeter
  326. # [18:31] <adrianba> rubys: the timeframe has passed - we're in uncharted territory
  327. # [18:31] <adrianba> judy: i'm assuming we're still okay to continue
  328. # [18:31] <adrianba> rubys: nothing more to add, no
  329. # [18:32] <adrianba> judy: we'll be providing some additional clarifications to that, some concern about the type of evidence being asked for
  330. # [18:32] <adrianba> ... will address those in writing
  331. # [18:32] <adrianba> rubys: there are some people who believe in some statements and others that believe the opposite - we'd like to see some concrete evidence
  332. # [18:32] <adrianba> judy: that is my understanding
  333. # [18:33] <adrianba> ... i have to point out that there is a perception that the same requirement isn't being put on all parties
  334. # [18:33] <adrianba> ... no further comments on 31c for now
  335. # [18:34] <Zakim> -joesteele
  336. # [18:34] * Quits: joesteele (joesteele@192.150.10.201) (Quit: joesteele)
  337. # [18:34] <adrianba> rubys: we need to actually show that if the validator was changed then people would actually change behaviour
  338. # [18:35] <adrianba> judy: i did include that in the change proposal but it's difficult to prove harm for something that is not in place yet
  339. # [18:35] <adrianba> ... you don't want to have widespread evidence of damage - we want to avoid this happening because of something in the spec
  340. # [18:36] * Quits: anne (annevk@82.161.179.17) (Connection reset by peer)
  341. # [18:36] * Joins: anne (annevk@82.161.179.17)
  342. # [18:36] <adrianba> cyns: if someone were to create a controlled experiment looking at behaviour of authors based on validator results would that be helpful?
  343. # [18:37] <adrianba> rubys: comments from an actual user saying i would change behaviour based on validator is something we don't have already
  344. # [18:38] <adrianba> judy: if we just need a few quotes from people that do lots of training that this is exactly the situation they would pay attention to, those kind of things we have seen in the past over and over again
  345. # [18:38] <adrianba> ... we can say that more clearly but i don't want to set-up projects to review this
  346. # [18:38] <adrianba> cyns: are you looking for anecdotal evidence or something else?
  347. # [18:39] <adrianba> rubys: anecdotal evidence was called for in the original decision - the closer you can get to actual users saying they will change behaviour the better
  348. # [18:40] <adrianba> ... trainers for authors i understand the clarification, but if you can get information directly from authors that's helpful
  349. # [18:40] <adrianba> cyns: the problem is that if you ask people directly they don't know - i find it frustrating that asking trainers is discounted given their experience
  350. # [18:41] <Zakim> -kstreeter
  351. # [18:41] <adrianba> cyns: one more point, one of the points judy made was about evidence from, for want of a better word, the other side
  352. # [18:42] <adrianba> ... i don't think we have concrete evidence for that - it is similar experience from people dealing with authors
  353. # [18:42] <adrianba> ... i'd really like to see real research but at the moment i don't see everyone being asked for the same evidence and i don't think asking authors is enough
  354. # [18:43] <adrianba> rubys: right now we're examining reopening the issue, if the issue is reopened then we'll ask for equal evidence from everyone
  355. # [18:44] <adrianba> cyns: i'm worried about locking out future behaviour like we discussed with 204
  356. # [18:44] <adrianba> judy: i don't think it's a question of future behaviour - we've already addressed this though
  357. # [18:45] <adrianba> rubys: next up is HTML-A11Y task force consensus on issue-204
  358. # [18:45] <adrianba> issue-204?
  359. # [18:45] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-204
  360. # [18:45] <trackbot> ISSUE-204 -- Exempt ARIA attributes from the rule that prohibits reference to hidden elements -- open
  361. # [18:45] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/204
  362. # [18:46] <adrianba> janina: the objections in the consensus resolution are from one individual that in many cases are looking for a different level of requirements
  363. # [18:46] <adrianba> ... for instance that this should not be a pattern that we encourage
  364. # [18:46] <adrianba> ... and use language that we use language that says SHOULD NOT use this
  365. # [18:47] <Judy> s/behaviour - we've already addressed/behaviour - the problem isn't locking out innovation, it's a failure to recognize existing authoring tool behaviour - and we have already documented that
  366. # [18:47] <adrianba> ... we have not ignored these objections but i don't know we can do anything more with them as it standards
  367. # [18:47] <adrianba> ... his recent response is about a whole new approach
  368. # [18:47] <adrianba> rubys: i have 2 questions, one for benjamin about what he does support and he's not here to answer that
  369. # [18:48] <adrianba> ... the other question is if we end up with the current two proposals i assume we will get strong objections to one of them
  370. # [18:48] <adrianba> ... i think we tweaked cynthia's proposal sufficiently to bring the 2 in line
  371. # [18:48] <adrianba> ... the recent version considers the implications of the changes
  372. # [18:48] * Parts: anne (annevk@82.161.179.17)
  373. # [18:49] <adrianba> ... i cannot tell if the other proposal is saying exactly the same thing in the details section because it is a diff that is harder to read
  374. # [18:49] <Zakim> +??P3
  375. # [18:49] <adrianba> rubys: i think the newest change is to discourage use of this
  376. # [18:49] <tantek> Zakim, ??P3 is tantek
  377. # [18:49] <Zakim> +tantek; got it
  378. # [18:49] <tantek> Zakim, mute tantek
  379. # [18:49] <Zakim> tantek should now be muted
  380. # [18:50] <adrianba> cyns: i can't think of any stronger way of discouraging users than saying SHOULD NOT
  381. # [18:51] <adrianba> cyns: isn't the time for counter proposals long past?
  382. # [18:51] <rubys> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012May/0090.html
  383. # [18:51] * Joins: drublic (drublic@93.216.210.113)
  384. # [18:52] <adrianba> judy: i'm concerned if someone isn't coming to the table to participate - it now seems like we're abandoning the work from the f2f?
  385. # [18:52] <adrianba> janina: aren't we trying to get to a single proposal?
  386. # [18:52] <adrianba> judy: are we dropping the good work done because of one person?
  387. # [18:52] <adrianba> rubys: we are going to proceed soon to a survey
  388. # [18:52] <adrianba> janina: is it possible the other proposal could be withdrawn to remove the need for the survey?
  389. # [18:53] <adrianba> hober: it is possible
  390. # [18:53] <adrianba> rubys: if that happened, normal action would be to do a CfC with a firm one week deadline after which we confirm consensus and move on
  391. # [18:53] <adrianba> hober: i need to talk to jonas
  392. # [18:54] * Quits: J_Voracek (J_Voracek@76.184.40.47) (Ping timeout)
  393. # [18:55] <adrianba> cyns: do you know when?
  394. # [18:55] <adrianba> hober: hopefully today, otherwise early next week
  395. # [18:55] <adrianba> cyns: thanks for pushing on this
  396. # [18:55] <adrianba> rubys: Update on editor search
  397. # [18:55] <rubys> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012May/0086.html
  398. # [18:55] <adrianba> rubys: we have a number of candidates but have also chosen to extend the deadline
  399. # [18:57] <adrianba> rubys: other business?
  400. # [18:57] <adrianba> judy: we need a coordination meeting
  401. # [18:57] <adrianba> rubys: i don't have any unmoveable meetings in the next couple of days
  402. # [18:57] <tantek> I've reviewed the recent messages on Issue 184, and I don't see any actions for me to take to move things forward.
  403. # [18:57] <adrianba> paulc: i'm starting a thread right now with the chairs
  404. # [18:57] <adrianba> judy: i had one could you use that one
  405. # [18:57] <adrianba> paulc: okay
  406. # [18:58] <adrianba> TOPIC: Scribe for next meetingn
  407. # [18:58] <glenn> i can scribe
  408. # [18:58] <tantek> For what it's worth I still think the counter-proposal is problematic, both for the reasons the chairs raise, and for the simple fact that a 'type' attribute is unnecessary and actually *hurts* usability of date/time information as compared to the simple and agreed upon <time> element.
  409. # [18:58] <adrianba> rubys: glenn has volunteered, thanks glenn
  410. # [18:58] <adrianba> TOPIC: Adjournmentn
  411. # [18:58] * Joins: J_Voracek (J_Voracek@76.184.40.47)
  412. # [18:58] <tantek> thanks
  413. # [18:58] <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
  414. # [18:58] <Zakim> -eliot
  415. # [18:58] * Quits: Jay (jay@131.107.0.110) (Quit: Jay)
  416. # [18:58] <Zakim> -Clarke
  417. # [18:58] <Zakim> -Sam
  418. # [18:58] <Zakim> -glenn
  419. # [18:58] <Zakim> -??P59
  420. # [18:58] <Zakim> -Judy
  421. # [18:58] <adrianba> rubys: thanks everybody
  422. # [18:58] <Zakim> -[Apple]
  423. # [18:58] * Parts: janina (janina@69.140.165.18)
  424. # [18:58] <Zakim> -??P31
  425. # [18:58] <eliot> thanks!
  426. # [18:58] <Zakim> - +25686aaaa
  427. # [18:58] <Zakim> -Aaron
  428. # [18:59] * Quits: eliot (eliot@131.107.0.118) (Quit: Never put off till tomorrow, what you can do the day after tomorrow)
  429. # [18:59] <Zakim> -tantek
  430. # [18:59] <Zakim> -adrianba
  431. # [18:59] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
  432. # [18:59] <Zakim> -[GVoice]
  433. # [18:59] <Zakim> -Radhika_Roy
  434. # [18:59] * Quits: MFoladare (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Quit: Page closed)
  435. # [19:00] <adrianba> rrsagent, make minutes
  436. # [19:00] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/17-html-wg-minutes.html adrianba
  437. # [19:00] <adrianba> rrsagent, make logs public
  438. # [19:00] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, adrianba
  439. # [19:00] * adrianba tantek, on 184 chairs said next action is for them to review revised proposals
  440. # [19:01] <tantek> adrianba - I checked the emails on the topic, and no revision was requested of my original change proposal for 184
  441. # [19:01] <tantek> that being said, since from email traffic it appears the counter-proposal is still being incrementally updated, I think I will put in a short section in my original proposal stating briefly why the counter-proposal is both unnecessary and undesirable.
  442. # [19:02] * adrianba tantek, i imagine you're fine then :) i think they said one of the proposals had been updated as requested and they need to review - if yours didn't need a revision it should be okay
  443. # [19:02] * Quits: Milan_Patel (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Ping timeout)
  444. # [19:02] <tantek> I'll also note that there were no objections (and thus consensus) at the recent f2f regarding my original proposal for 184.
  445. # [19:02] <adrianba> rrsagent, make minutes
  446. # [19:02] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/17-html-wg-minutes.html adrianba
  447. # [19:04] <adrianba> trackbot, end telcon
  448. # [19:04] * trackbot is ending a teleconference
  449. # [19:04] <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
  450. # [19:04] <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been [GVoice], +25686aaaa, Aaron, hober, glenn, Sam, adrianba, Radhika_Roy, joesteele, paulc, Clarke, +1.206.850.aabb, eliot, Cynthia_Shelly,
  451. # [19:04] <Zakim> ... Judy, [Microsoft], Jay, kstreeter, tantek
  452. # [19:04] <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
  453. # [19:04] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/17-html-wg-minutes.html trackbot
  454. # [19:04] <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
  455. # [19:04] <RRSAgent> I see no action items
  456. # [19:04] * Parts: RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.169)
  457. # [19:04] <tantek> thanks for minuting adrianba
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  465. # [19:29] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  466. # [19:29] <Zakim> HTML_WG()12:00PM has ended
  467. # [19:29] <Zakim> Attendees were [GVoice], +25686aaaa, Aaron, hober, glenn, Sam, adrianba, Radhika_Roy, joesteele, paulc, Clarke, +1.206.850.aabb, eliot, Cynthia_Shelly, Judy, [Microsoft], Jay,
  468. # [19:29] <Zakim> ... kstreeter, tantek
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  477. # [20:09] <tantek> rubys, since there still appears to be email activity around the counter-proposal for issue 184, I've gone ahead and updated my original change proposal for 184 with a rebuttal section listing the arguments that have been conveyed against the counter-proposal: http://www.w3.org/wiki/User:Tantekelik/data_element#Other_Proposals
  478. # [20:10] <rubys> tantek: thanks!
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  506. # [22:56] * Quits: glenn (gadams@71.218.125.40) (Ping timeout)
  507. # [23:02] * Quits: dsinger (dsinger@93.56.61.84) (Quit: dsinger)
  508. # [23:17] * Joins: mjs (mjs@17.245.104.240)
  509. # [23:22] * Joins: dveditz (dveditz@63.245.220.240)
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  511. # [23:26] * Quits: drublic (drublic@93.216.210.113) (Ping timeout)
  512. # [23:34] * Quits: icaaq (Adium@85.228.168.63) (Quit: Leaving.)
  513. # [23:55] * Joins: Lachy (Lachy@84.215.193.30)
  514. # Session Close: Fri May 18 00:00:05 2012

The end :)