/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-02-09 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Feb 09 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  34. # [01:01] <paul_irish> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2011Feb/0078
  35. # [01:02] <key> paul_irish: http://www.pastie.org/private/z4e91xoa8dx8twu4etl2ua
  36. # [01:02] <key> critique please
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  40. # [01:08] <paul_irish> maybe my subtle powers of saying "no one wants to help a jerk" actually worked.
  41. # [01:10] <andrewjbaker> V. subtle.^^
  42. # [01:10] <paul_irish> oh i actually told him that in PM.
  43. # [01:10] <paul_irish> after ignoring him all day.
  44. # [01:10] <paul_irish> combo attack.
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  47. # [01:11] <andrewjbaker> LOL.
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  50. # [01:15] <niftylettuce> anyone here use sass or haml? the #haml and #sass channels are dead... I'm having permission errors when I try to run "sass-convert" or "compass"... just switched to Debian and did a "sudo gem install compass" likewise for haml... and when I run "sass-convert" and "compass" as my default user it does not recognize these commands (prob b/c I don't have gems folder added to my path?)
  51. # [01:17] <niftylettuce> anyone here use sass or haml? the #haml and #sass channels are dead... I'm having permission errors when I try to run "sass-convert" or "compass"... just switched to Debian and did a "sudo gem install compass" likewise for haml... and when I run "sass-convert" and "compass" as my default user it does not recognize these commands (prob b/c I don't have gems folder added to my path?)
  52. # [01:17] <niftylettuce> woops
  53. # [01:17] <niftylettuce> ah I got it with export PATH=$PATH:/var/lib/gems/1.8/bin, read chriseppstein's stack overflow post @ http://stackoverflow.com/questions/909673/gems-and-ubuntu-9-04
  54. # [01:18] <chriseppstein> niftylettuce: That's not me
  55. # [01:18] <niftylettuce> chriseppstein: ??
  56. # [01:18] <niftylettuce> oh
  57. # [01:18] <niftylettuce> I guess its not safe to assume all chris' are eppstein's
  58. # [01:19] <chriseppstein> relatively safe to assume the other direction
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  82. # [01:45] <andrewjbaker> Anyone know of a modern browser supports using fillText() w/ Web fonts?
  83. # [01:47] <paul_irish> i think they all do
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  85. # [01:47] <paul_irish> you just gotta wait until the font has loaded before you use it
  86. # [01:47] * Joins: grantg (42e5650f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.229.101.15)
  87. # [01:47] <paul_irish> in FF window.load is an indicator
  88. # [01:48] <paul_irish> in webkit that is not reliable
  89. # [01:48] <grantg> paul_irish: I suspect my bug report still hold true: http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=71951#c21
  90. # [01:48] <paul_irish> looks like it
  91. # [01:49] <grantg> and Google Chrome seems to garbage collect the web audio api, causing it to stop outputting audio after x seconds
  92. # [01:49] <paul_irish> ouch
  93. # [01:49] <grantg> Which is why it works properly in safari and not chrome
  94. # [01:49] <andrewjbaker> paul_irish, Ah... OK. Maybe that's what's been causing my problems. Will jQuery's ready() get around that?
  95. # [01:49] <paul_irish> no
  96. # [01:50] <andrewjbaker> Gah.
  97. # [01:50] <grantg> andrewjbaker: Eww, jquery
  98. # [01:50] <grantg> :P
  99. # [01:50] <paul_irish> http://code.google.com/apis/webfonts/docs/webfont_loader.html#Events active : function(){ ..
  100. # [01:50] <grantg> jquery is the reason websites take so long to load now.
  101. # [01:51] <andrewjbaker> paul_irish, thx.
  102. # [01:51] <grantg> 50 jquery plugins + jquery = one hell of a wait time for a website
  103. # [01:51] <grantg> and only like 10% of that stuff is even used to do something simple.
  104. # [01:52] <grantg> while the other 90% is laziness on the web dev to remove unneeded code.
  105. # [01:52] <paul_irish> also not everyone knows (and enjoys) all the DOM apis
  106. # [01:52] <andrewjbaker> grantg, expediency dude, on the part of the dev. vs. not meeting deadlines... ;-)
  107. # [01:53] <grantg> I swear I'll shoot the next web dev that has like 30 js includes for buggy and near-useless jquery plugins
  108. # [01:53] * andrewjbaker doesn't consider himself shot... just yet.^^
  109. # [01:53] <grantg> :/
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  111. # [01:54] <grantg> I avoid it as I see jquery encompasses too much
  112. # [01:55] <grantg> I don't want a super-js lib
  113. # [01:55] <andrewjbaker> JS gets cached, right? So... ;-)
  114. # [01:55] <paul_irish> jquery specifically isn't that, grantg
  115. # [01:55] <grantg> too large in my books. :P
  116. # [01:55] <paul_irish> what would you remove
  117. # [01:55] <grantg> I only want to exact funcs needed for DOM manipulation.
  118. # [01:56] <grantg> I'd have it where I include only the parts I'd really use
  119. # [01:56] <grantg> not the whole DOM wrapping
  120. # [01:56] <grantg> w/ CSS engine shit
  121. # [01:56] <paul_irish> yeah i'd be fine with a sizzle-less jquery, too.
  122. # [01:57] <paul_irish> SlexAxton was actually going to do something with modularjquery.com that he got a bit ago.
  123. # [01:57] <grantg> paul_irish: Make different subsets of JQuery and that'd be better. ;)
  124. # [01:57] <paul_irish> but it turns out that the core of the library isnt written in a way that facilitates a conditional build very well.
  125. # [01:57] <grantg> for things like basic dom, etc.
  126. # [01:57] <andrewjbaker> Hmm... even better... couldn't we get JS altered to natively support the CSS selector shizzle? OK, I'll shut up now.
  127. # [01:57] <paul_irish> andrewjbaker: it does, bro.
  128. # [01:58] <andrewjbaker> paul_irish, o.O
  129. # [01:58] <paul_irish> ?mdc queryselectorall
  130. # [01:58] <bot-t> paul_irish, document.querySelectorAll - Returns a list of the elements within the document (using depth-first pre-order traversal of the document's nodes) that match the specified group of selectors. The object returned is a NodeList . https://developer.mozilla.org/En/DOM/Document.querySelectorAll
  131. # [01:58] <grantg> andrewjbaker: A lot of code is compat
  132. # [01:58] <grantg> with retarded IE6
  133. # [01:58] <paul_irish> and retarded ie7
  134. # [01:58] <grantg> and sometimes ie8
  135. # [01:58] <realityking> that's certainly one advantage of Mootools - everything is modularized. And it even has a nice builder :)
  136. # [01:58] <paul_irish> killing off ie6 support doesnt reduce the size much.. killing off ie7 too and you can dump most of sizzle
  137. # [01:59] <grantg> paul_irish: I avoid this compat bs by using straight dom 1 walkers.
  138. # [01:59] <grantg> with easy testing
  139. # [02:00] <paul_irish> you would really like et.js
  140. # [02:00] <grantg> heh
  141. # [02:00] <paul_irish> .tweet-recent miketaylr
  142. # [02:00] <grantg> paul_irish: recursive dom1 walkers I mean. ;)
  143. # [02:01] <paul_irish> http://www.w3.org/2008/12/23-ElementTraversal.html
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  147. # [02:05] <andrewjbaker> paul_irish, how would: $('#go_east').css('color', '#000'); look written natively?
  148. # [02:05] <paul_irish> document.getElementById('go_east').style.color = '#000';
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  150. # [02:05] <paul_irish> whoops
  151. # [02:05] <paul_irish> i mean
  152. # [02:06] <paul_irish> document.querySelectorAll('go_east')[0].style.color = '#000';
  153. # [02:06] <paul_irish> cuz lets use the hotness.
  154. # [02:06] <andrewjbaker> LOL. Erm... still quite verbose then, in comparison.
  155. # [02:07] <paul_irish> yes for sure.
  156. # [02:08] <andrewjbaker> I wonder how much of a tradeoff there might be in reality when comparing JS that makes use of jQuery and JS that uses native functionality. Maybe using jQuery would ultimately reduce the downloadable footprint of custom JS heavy Web sites.
  157. # [02:11] <andrewjbaker> If the trend is to move towards incorporating more and more JS, then ultimately using a library could potentially reduce the quantity of code that's downloaded per page.
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  159. # [02:13] <techrush> if the library is custom tailored to that site yes
  160. # [02:13] <techrush> but a general purpose library probably not
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  162. # [02:16] <andrewjbaker> OK, emphasis on *probably*. But surely the potential still exists.
  163. # [02:17] * andrewjbaker enjoys being re-educated about optimisation of JS and Web dev. vs. compiled dev.
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  196. # [04:09] <tw2113> so quite *drops a pin*
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  198. # [04:10] <paul_irish> ;)
  199. # [04:10] <tw2113> at least you didn't yell at me to keep it down in here, and that i'm causing a racket :D
  200. # [04:11] <key> ok guys, input please: http://www.pastie.org/private/z4e91xoa8dx8twu4etl2ua
  201. # [04:11] <JSG> It's less lonely in here than #xhtml-strict
  202. # [04:11] <key> i added another version of my html data structuring
  203. # [04:11] <key> JSG: lol
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  205. # [04:12] <tw2113> is the document div meant to be a container?
  206. # [04:12] <key> yes
  207. # [04:12] <key> to fix the width of the web page, and center it
  208. # [04:12] <tw2113> cool, just checking
  209. # [04:12] <key> etc
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  211. # [04:12] <tw2113> you could likely get rid of the menu ID
  212. # [04:12] <miketaylr> any reason to not just use <body> for that?
  213. # [04:13] <tw2113> miketaylr i use containers like that too
  214. # [04:13] <miketaylr> it's cool
  215. # [04:13] <tw2113> unless you mean body { width: 960px; margin: 0 auto; }
  216. # [04:13] <tw2113> :)
  217. # [04:13] <key> miketaylr: i'm torn on how to approach it to, whether to use div or body. thoughts?
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  219. # [04:13] <tw2113> the div won't hurt you at all
  220. # [04:13] <key> tw2113: yea, wouldn't that be how you'd use body for that?
  221. # [04:14] <miketaylr> i typically just use body, but one extra div might come in handy depending on how you style the actual page
  222. # [04:14] <tw2113> i can't say i touch the body too much other than sitewide font stuff and backgrounds
  223. # [04:14] <tw2113> you're not playing with fire enough until you start styling the html ta
  224. # [04:14] <key> miketaylr: see that's a good point, my idea was to use body to style the entire window, then div document to style the actual web page bg, speaking in terms of content
  225. # [04:15] <tw2113> tag*
  226. # [04:15] <paul_irish> https://twitter.com/#!/aleksandarrodic/status/35017032273633280
  227. # [04:15] <socialhapy> http://bit.ly/fWNHKc @aleksandarrodic: 4 projectors, server-side simulation, synchronous WebGL rendering with webSockets. http://imgur.com/hKd5K #webgl #scad #websocket #chrome
  228. # [04:15] <miketaylr> needs moar buzzwords
  229. # [04:16] * Quits: Killman (~killman@unaffiliated/killman) (Quit: brb reboot)
  230. # [04:16] <tw2113> it lacks the term bacon
  231. # [04:16] <miketaylr> paul_irish: these cr48 form factors are slick
  232. # [04:16] <paul_irish> you just got a cr48?
  233. # [04:16] <miketaylr> kristin got one today
  234. # [04:16] <paul_irish> hot damn
  235. # [04:16] <miketaylr> i did two approaches:
  236. # [04:16] <key> damn
  237. # [04:16] <miketaylr> 1) me, I'm a dev! 2) her, I'm a mom!
  238. # [04:17] <miketaylr> she won.
  239. # [04:17] <key> https://twitter.com/aleksandarrodic/status/35017032273633280
  240. # [04:17] <socialhapy> http://bit.ly/fWNHKc @aleksandarrodic: 4 projectors, server-side simulation, synchronous WebGL rendering with webSockets. http://imgur.com/hKd5K #webgl #scad #websocket #chrome
  241. # [04:17] <key> damn
  242. # [04:17] <key> impressive
  243. # [04:17] <key> don't know what it means by serverside simulation
  244. # [04:17] <key> and synchronous webgl rendering with web sockets
  245. # [04:17] <tw2113> let your mind run wild with that key
  246. # [04:17] <key> please explain
  247. # [04:17] <tw2113> serverside simulation
  248. # [04:17] <tw2113> mmmmmmm
  249. # [04:17] <paul_irish> he's running part of the jellyfish inside node.js
  250. # [04:18] <tw2113> it's over my head too, no worries
  251. # [04:18] <tw2113> brb
  252. # [04:18] <key> oh so server runs some simulation, then converts to webgl and distributes to clients?
  253. # [04:18] <paul_irish> server is probably doing physics, movement, some other heavy lifting.. goes up via websockets to multiple clients
  254. # [04:18] <paul_irish> webgl up there.. massive shaders..... synchronized multiple browsers
  255. # [04:19] <key> paul_irish: please chime in on this div vs body styling question
  256. # [04:19] <key> nice
  257. # [04:19] <key> man that looks fun
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  259. # [04:19] <paul_irish> i'd much rather discuss webgl problems than semantic ones.
  260. # [04:19] <key> ok, what's cr48 form factor?
  261. # [04:19] <paul_irish> the design of the hardware
  262. # [04:19] <key> what hardware?
  263. # [04:20] <miketaylr> google chromeos notebook
  264. # [04:20] <paul_irish> ?g cr48 @ key
  265. # [04:20] <bot-t> key, Cr48 - Pilot-Program - Chrome OS - http://www.google.com/chromeos/pilot-program-cr48.html
  266. # [04:20] <key> ohh, that
  267. # [04:20] <key> i thought about getting one
  268. # [04:20] <key> how you guys liking it?
  269. # [04:21] <miketaylr> seems cool, but i only played with it for like 15 mins
  270. # [04:21] <key> oh
  271. # [04:21] <miketaylr> plus, it comes with some sweet stickers
  272. # [04:21] <key> what do the stickers look like?
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  276. # [04:22] <miketaylr> dunno, just graphic designey chrome things
  277. # [04:22] <key> k
  278. # [04:22] * Quits: Icehuu (~Ice@srh1380.urh.uiuc.edu) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  279. # [04:22] <key> ok so what do you think of my idea to use body styling for whole window, then div document styling for the web page styling?
  280. # [04:22] <key> (page, logically speaking)
  281. # [04:22] <paul_irish> sounds great
  282. # [04:22] <paul_irish> kroc camen recommended that a while ago
  283. # [04:22] <paul_irish> and he's pretty smart
  284. # [04:23] <key> paul_irish: ok awesome, thank you! can you envision any problems with http://www.pastie.org/private/z4e91xoa8dx8twu4etl2ua version 2?
  285. # [04:23] <key> really?
  286. # [04:23] <key> i didn't see that
  287. # [04:23] <paul_irish> you are using quite a few IDs which seem superfluous to me, but other than that, the structure is peachy
  288. # [04:23] <key> ok let me strip those; i have a feeling you are correct
  289. # [04:24] <tw2113> i see how it is...you listen to him but not me
  290. # [04:24] <tw2113> jk it's all good
  291. # [04:24] <tw2113> as long as it gets done :D
  292. # [04:24] <key> would it make sense to switch them to classes? or? basically, i want to affect style to the document div, the main menu + items, and the section menu + items all distinctly
  293. # [04:24] <key> he's the paul :P
  294. # [04:24] <tw2113> you can target them pretty well without eiter
  295. # [04:24] <paul_irish> ^
  296. # [04:24] <tw2113> either*
  297. # [04:24] <paul_irish> document id you probably want
  298. # [04:25] <paul_irish> the rest i dont see a need for
  299. # [04:25] <paul_irish> s/rest/other two
  300. # [04:25] <key> can you target a UL within a UL within the NAV distinctly from the UL within the NAV?
  301. # [04:25] <paul_irish> yes.......
  302. # [04:25] <paul_irish> nav ul ul {
  303. # [04:26] <tw2113> ^
  304. # [04:26] <paul_irish> typically inside there you'll cancel any generic nav ul { rules you have that you dont want
  305. # [04:26] <key> oh interesting. and that's superior to defining style via #menu ul {} and #section-menu ul {} ?
  306. # [04:26] <tw2113> it gets a bit more difficult if you have nested ul's twice in the same nav, but your current setup is easy enough
  307. # [04:26] <paul_irish> of course if you're not supporting IE6 then you can use nav ul > li > ul { and have plenty of control
  308. # [04:28] <key> just out of curiosity, why is this better than targetting the ul's by their id?
  309. # [04:28] <tw2113> this way you don't even need to declare the IDs
  310. # [04:28] <tw2113> save on page weight
  311. # [04:29] <key> nice.
  312. # [04:29] <tw2113> bingo, i knew it was Andy Clarke that did this article http://www.stuffandnonsense.co.uk/archives/css_specificity_wars.html
  313. # [04:30] <key> reading now
  314. # [04:30] * Joins: vladikoff (~vladikoff@70.26.78.156)
  315. # [04:30] <tw2113> beware 2 sith lords!
  316. # [04:32] <BrianBlakely> Code is way easier to read with semantic tags over class/id dotted on everything
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  318. # [04:32] * tw2113 won't deny being class happy sometimes
  319. # [04:33] <tw2113> i need to work more with css attribute selectors
  320. # [04:33] <paul_irish> BrianBlakely: check this badboy out http://camendesign.com/design/design.css
  321. # [04:34] <key> uh, OMG
  322. # [04:34] <miketaylr> that's some hardcore css
  323. # [04:34] <tw2113> i am not seeing any classes in that paul_irish
  324. # [04:35] <tw2113> i officially feel inferior
  325. # [04:35] <miketaylr> "HTML5, no DIVs/SPANs, no IDs and no classes"
  326. # [04:35] <paul_irish> it's a bit overwhelming
  327. # [04:35] <miketaylr> #whatever #i #do #what { i: want }
  328. # [04:35] <paul_irish> miketaylr++
  329. # [04:36] <key> hmm
  330. # [04:36] <key> nothing shows on the camendesign.com page
  331. # [04:36] <key> in the content area
  332. # [04:36] <BrianBlakely> paul_irish: Nice, I'm very down with attribute selectors
  333. # [04:36] <tw2113> the quote at the top is the content for the page at the moment
  334. # [04:36] <key> is this guy chillin in here?
  335. # [04:36] <paul_irish> attribute selectors are heaven. i think people who dropped IE6 support forget that so many selectors are available to them now
  336. # [04:37] <key> yea i dont care about ie6
  337. # [04:37] <tw2113> i just need to make sure sites are useable in IE, not pixel perfect or anything like that
  338. # [04:38] <tw2113> this camendesign guy had a bit of a rant about RSS not too long ago
  339. # [04:38] <jetienne> do you think he generated that ? or he maintains this file by hand ?
  340. # [04:38] <key> http://camendesign.com/code-is-art/
  341. # [04:39] <tw2113> mmm creative commons
  342. # [04:39] <paul_irish> jetienne: definitely by hand
  343. # [04:40] <paul_irish> he has this one post about 8 lines of php that took him two months to write
  344. # [04:40] <key> url?
  345. # [04:40] <jetienne> :)
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  347. # [04:41] <paul_irish> key: earlier thing thing
  348. # [04:41] <paul_irish> http://camendesign.com/code-is-art/developpeurs_sans_frontieres
  349. # [04:42] <BrianBlakely> paul_irish: http://innint.com/internal/ui-hulk-out/#beyondie6
  350. # [04:42] <key> that falls back really nicely
  351. # [04:42] <BrianBlakely> Guide I put together for my team, I believe it's comprehensive
  352. # [04:43] <key> excellent work BrianBlakely, i'll study it
  353. # [04:43] <key> thank you
  354. # [04:43] <BrianBlakely> :D
  355. # [04:43] <BrianBlakely> Might want to clip that to Evernote
  356. # [04:43] <BrianBlakely> It might go behind a firewall soon
  357. # [04:44] <tw2113> i wish the evernote clipper for firefox would update to the betas :D unless i need the beta version of that
  358. # [04:45] <BrianBlakely> key: One important thing to note is that :last-child is not supported in IE7, but :first-child is
  359. # [04:45] <key> whoa
  360. # [04:45] <paul_irish> but :last-of-type is, i think
  361. # [04:45] <BrianBlakely> …I guess Microsoft couldn't afford to go both ways
  362. # [04:45] <BrianBlakely> Really?
  363. # [04:45] <key> paul_irish: tw2113, this directly addresses my earlier question of using a div so body could set window bg color, and div could set document bg color!! : http://camendesign.com/code-is-art/developpeurs_sans_frontieres
  364. # [04:46] <paul_irish> BrianBlakely: nope
  365. # [04:46] <key> bg color on html for same effect, how genius!
  366. # [04:46] <key> html + body
  367. # [04:46] <BrianBlakely> k
  368. # [04:46] <tw2113> and sounds like that won't break too much if anything, key
  369. # [04:46] <BrianBlakely> key: wat
  370. # [04:47] <key> BrianBlakely: earlier i was showing this: http://www.pastie.org/pastes/1540362/edit?key=z4e91xoa8dx8twu4etl2ua
  371. # [04:47] <BrianBlakely> key: I recommend putting your "window" background on <html>, and using the <body> as your layout container
  372. # [04:47] <key> i used div id=document to fix width and center my web page, logically speaking
  373. # [04:47] <key> yes
  374. # [04:47] <key> i shall now do that
  375. # [04:47] <key> sank you
  376. # [04:48] <BrianBlakely> key: I have the feeling I chimed in with that a few lines too late :P
  377. # [04:48] <tw2113> all these needless containers zomg
  378. # [04:48] <key> it's nice they are going away
  379. # [04:48] <key> going AWAYYY
  380. # [04:48] <key> no brian your timing was perfect
  381. # [04:48] <BrianBlakely> haha, great
  382. # [04:48] <key> all of this confirmation all at once sealed the deal
  383. # [04:48] <tw2113> set yourslf apart key
  384. # [04:49] <tw2113> laugh at those that still do "<div class="container"> "
  385. # [04:49] <tw2113> "bahahaha noob!"
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  388. # [04:50] <key> nubbles
  389. # [04:50] <key> im gonna tune my html down to like, 3 lines. gonna be wild
  390. # [04:52] <BrianBlakely> Anyone have any word on what IE9 RC will support?
  391. # [04:52] <BrianBlakely> I'm really nervous gradients won't make it in
  392. # [04:52] <BrianBlakely> That would suck
  393. # [04:52] <key> http://www.stuffandnonsense.co.uk/archives/images/specificitywars-05v2.jpg
  394. # [04:52] <paul_irish> there are suspicions
  395. # [04:52] <key> rofl that's so rad
  396. # [04:52] <paul_irish> i dont think gradients will make it.
  397. # [04:52] <BrianBlakely> Awesome
  398. # [04:53] <BrianBlakely> SVG backgrounds it is, then
  399. # [04:53] <paul_irish> because the spec only solidified 45 days ago
  400. # [04:53] <BrianBlakely> Weird justification
  401. # [04:53] <paul_irish> BrianBlakely: can you host this ui hulk out somewhere else permamentnaly
  402. # [04:54] <BrianBlakely> For YOU Paul… yes.
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  406. # [04:57] <paul_irish> and gimme the URL because i want that ie6 section
  407. # [04:57] <paul_irish> actually.. brian.. just link it up in the lazyweb-requests repo
  408. # [04:57] <paul_irish> in browser death features
  409. # [05:00] <key> http://www.pastie.org/private/z4e91xoa8dx8twu4etl2ua <-- i removed the DIV, preparing for bg color in html and body tags, and using body to fix width of web page and center it
  410. # [05:01] <paul_irish> groovy
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  413. # [05:06] <key> so you guys suggested i strip the id's, which i did. what about the classes? should i use those or is there a sexier way croc camen would do it?
  414. # [05:06] <BrianBlakely> Alright, it's now at a location at which I can ensure openness
  415. # [05:07] <paul_irish> thank you brian....
  416. # [05:07] <BrianBlakely> http://analogysoft.com/learning/ui-hulk-out/#beyondie6
  417. # [05:07] <tw2113> the "active" class I could see being needed
  418. # [05:07] <paul_irish> key: good for now
  419. # [05:07] <paul_irish> you should just like..
  420. # [05:07] <paul_irish> make it
  421. # [05:07] <paul_irish> and stop futzing
  422. # [05:07] <tw2113> do it to it
  423. # [05:07] <tw2113> diti!
  424. # [05:08] <key> it's a big step :P
  425. # [05:08] * key dives in
  426. # [05:08] <tw2113> meanwhile, i need to find my copy of Hype!
  427. # [05:09] * Quits: Bass10 (Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving)
  428. # [05:09] <tw2113> whoa, i'm off topic
  429. # [05:12] * Quits: dguttman (~dguttman@gige.bur.digisynd.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  430. # [05:14] <key> http://camendesign.com/code-is-art/developpeurs_sans_frontieres => "body {width: 600px; margin: 20px auto; /* center */ padding: 20px;"
  431. # [05:15] <key> is that the best way to center your content?
  432. # [05:15] <key> looks to me like it's within a comment
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  434. # [05:16] <tw2113> the auto part does it
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  436. # [05:16] <key> what does /* center */ do?
  437. # [05:16] <BrianBlakely> It's just a comment
  438. # [05:16] <tw2113> reminds him that it's being centered
  439. # [05:16] <tw2113> http://www.bluerobot.com/web/css/center1.html
  440. # [05:17] <key> ahh
  441. # [05:17] <tw2113> :P
  442. # [05:17] <key> nice
  443. # [05:17] <key> thanks bro
  444. # [05:19] <tw2113> old but does the trick of explaining
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  561. # [05:29] <paul_irish> bye friends. :(
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  566. # [05:29] <key> so is it good that croc design doesn't use class/id? aren't they in the spec for a reason? (not to be abused, of course)
  567. # [05:30] <paul_irish> its showmanship.
  568. # [05:30] <paul_irish> that stylesheet is not representative of real life.
  569. # [05:30] <key> ok, noted. but still, is it best to avoid id/class as he does?
  570. # [05:31] <paul_irish> retlehs: hey man :)
  571. # [05:32] <tw2113> clearly it's possible to key
  572. # [05:32] <BrianBlakely> Good night HTML5
  573. # [05:32] <paul_irish> key: nah its fine.
  574. # [05:32] <tw2113> but really it's personal preference and how much you want to deal with
  575. # [05:32] <paul_irish> you should really focus on building.
  576. # [05:32] <paul_irish> it's too early for you to spend to much time on theory
  577. # [05:32] <paul_irish> for real
  578. # [05:32] <key> paul_irish: i am bro, but i'm also learning as i go along
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  580. # [05:32] <key> researching, reading, etc
  581. # [05:32] <key> i'm definitely building; iterating
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  587. # [05:33] <tw2113> you could think of it this way, build first, optimize later, until you get knowledgeable and can optimize from the getgo
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  589. # [05:33] <tw2113> once the familiarity is there
  590. # [05:33] <key> yea, and that's how i work, and am working
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  592. # [05:33] <key> that's the beauty of css, most of my site is already built
  593. # [05:34] <tw2113> you're optimizing first :P
  594. # [05:34] <key> just styling, etc now
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  596. # [05:34] <key> well, optimizing /as well/, you could say
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  598. # [05:34] <tw2113> where's a website with that markup structure?
  599. # [05:34] <tw2113> something yoy put together
  600. # [05:34] <tw2113> you*
  601. # [05:34] <key> local
  602. # [05:35] <key> ill put code up tho
  603. # [05:35] * Quits: Tabmow (terry@freenode/staff/tabmow) (Remote host closed the connection)
  604. # [05:35] <key> when i have a reason, i guess
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  606. # [05:35] <tw2113> paul_irish would you agree with the idea of release early release often?
  607. # [05:35] <key> that idea is very vaguely & broadly defined, as well oft abused
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  609. # [05:36] <tw2113> not really
  610. # [05:36] <key> i've been around since before the expression was harped
  611. # [05:36] <tw2113> release early: get SOMETHING out
  612. # [05:36] <tw2113> fix some stuff, release again
  613. # [05:36] <tw2113> rinse repeat
  614. # [05:37] <key> it's a matter of balance. it takes time to develop, as well practice, as any other matter of technique
  615. # [05:37] <key> i'm aware of the issue, and am on top of it
  616. # [05:37] <tw2113> :P
  617. # [05:37] <key> but i appreciate your thoughts
  618. # [05:38] <tw2113> woohoo, thepiratebay has a redd kross discography torrent
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  620. # [05:40] <snover> who the hell is croc camen?
  621. # [05:40] <key> your master
  622. # [05:40] <snover> that doesn’t sound right.
  623. # [05:40] <tw2113> lord and master?
  624. # [05:40] <key> it never does snover, it never does
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  626. # [05:41] <snover> no, still wrong. thanks for trying, tw2113
  627. # [05:41] <snover> i appreciate you going out on a limb like that
  628. # [05:41] <tw2113> *grin*
  629. # [05:41] <key> lol
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  636. # [06:04] <retlehs> paul_irish: hey bro
  637. # [06:05] <retlehs> how's it going
  638. # [06:05] <paul_irish> good to see you back in IRC :) haha
  639. # [06:05] <paul_irish> it's been a good.. 10 years or whatever
  640. # [06:05] <retlehs> lol yeah i haven't been back in that old place in a minute
  641. # [06:05] <retlehs> been lurking in here for a bit, forget i'm here sometimes
  642. # [06:05] <paul_irish> was it #downtempo or imagine? or chilledbeats?
  643. # [06:06] <retlehs> imagine
  644. # [06:06] <paul_irish> wooord! that was the leetest.
  645. # [06:06] <retlehs> for sure. glad aurgasm is around :)
  646. # [06:06] <paul_irish> right now i'm trying to write a few paragraphs on how using css3 makes for faster pages.
  647. # [06:06] <retlehs> nice
  648. # [06:06] <paul_irish> same! did you listen through http://welcomehohme.com/hohme-hundred-2010/ ?
  649. # [06:07] <paul_irish> it's suprisingly good.
  650. # [06:07] <retlehs> not yet... damn that's quite the list
  651. # [06:07] <retlehs> (i know what i'll be doing tomorrow)
  652. # [06:08] <paul_irish> real classy picks.
  653. # [06:08] <paul_irish> im gonna try to get him to draft a few posts for aurgasm
  654. # [06:08] <retlehs> that would be sweet
  655. # [06:09] <retlehs> i'm about to be dropping a html5 boilerplate+blueprint css+starkers wordpress theme
  656. # [06:09] <retlehs> created it around the time you made frontend-pro-template, finally getting it ready to share
  657. # [06:09] <paul_irish> huge
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  662. # [06:13] <retlehs> heading out, later man. thanks for the link to those mixes
  663. # [06:13] <paul_irish> cheers
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  665. # [06:15] <JonathanNeal> Woooooo +1
  666. # [06:16] <jetienne_> chrome got webgl in stable but still console.assert(false) doesnt show in the console #fail
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  675. # [06:37] <paul_irish> jetienne_: new.crbug.com plzzz
  676. # [06:37] <paul_irish> i will get it fixxd
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  679. # [06:41] <jetienne_> paul_irish: thx http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=72390
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  754. # [10:53] <key> sup fellas
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  789. # [12:06] <swiss-chris> is it o.k. to call (JavaScript) wondow.postMessage(value, "file://") for a file on the local file system? I'm getting "Unable to post message to null. Recipient has origin null." in Google Chrome
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  836. # [14:36] <Neiluj> paul_irish: you asked for css filters few weeks ago we would like, grayscale could be cool for enabled/disabled images :)
  837. # [14:38] <Neiluj> img.disabled { color-depth: 8bit-grayscale; } or something :)
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  846. # [15:04] <Evet> which format is google's tts? ogg?
  847. # [15:06] <ben_c> I think it might be mp3
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  849. # [15:07] <ben_c> http://translate.google.com/translate_tts?q=html5+wrocks
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  851. # [15:09] <jetienne> ben_c: translate_tts ? is that official api ?
  852. # [15:09] <ben_c> I don't think so at the moment
  853. # [15:10] <ben_c> jetienne: but it has been around for ages
  854. # [15:10] <jetienne> ok , i would love an official tts :)
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  860. # [15:35] <jetienne> ben_c: they limit the rate of this API a very rapidly tho :) just me doing human tries triggered a capcha
  861. # [15:37] <jetienne> i want to have all my classic book read to me during my sleep. would help me sleep and learn
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  864. # [15:45] <line> hey, guys
  865. # [15:45] <line> coming back to the question of kinetic scrollable containers
  866. # [15:45] <line> on iScroll page
  867. # [15:46] <line> it is written
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  869. # [15:46] <line> desktopCompatibility: for debug purpose you can set this to true to have the script behave on desktop webkit (Safari and Chrome) as it were a touch enabled device.
  870. # [15:46] <line> it seems like it's not so good solution to use this lib for desktop browsers?
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  883. # [16:18] <Neiluj> line: like I told you yesterday, some of us have already software or hardware kinetic scrolling
  884. # [16:18] <Neiluj> since you can't detect it, I would say it's a bad pratice
  885. # [16:19] <line> bad practice to have a kinetic scrolling container?
  886. # [16:19] <Neiluj> line: for mobile browser, you're using it only on some overscroll: auto things right ? not the whole <body> ? :)
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  888. # [16:19] <Neiluj> bad practice to offer something some people don't need because they already have
  889. # [16:19] <Neiluj> double rainbow !
  890. # [16:20] <Neiluj> :D
  891. # [16:20] <line> yes
  892. # [16:20] <line> but it would be working very bad?
  893. # [16:20] <Neiluj> I think so yes
  894. # [16:20] <Neiluj> because the scroll event is firing more...
  895. # [16:20] <line> and what browsers are having kinetic scroll?
  896. # [16:20] <line> desktop? mobile?
  897. # [16:20] <Neiluj> it won't be usable since you're going to scroll more
  898. # [16:21] <line> yep i get it
  899. # [16:21] <Neiluj> it doens't depend on the browser
  900. # [16:21] <Neiluj> like I said, they're some kinetic mouse
  901. # [16:21] <Neiluj> free wheels
  902. # [16:21] <Neiluj> guys in my team got one
  903. # [16:22] <Neiluj> I have kinetic scrolling with my mac trackpad, it's a system settings
  904. # [16:22] <line> so if i'm just using jquery ui draggable it's gonna be kinetic?
  905. # [16:22] <Neiluj> no possible way to detect it without asking the user to make a scroll and to see if the scroll events are looking like kinetic ones :)
  906. # [16:22] <line> yep ok
  907. # [16:22] <Neiluj> draggable ?
  908. # [16:22] <line> yes
  909. # [16:22] <Neiluj> why not over overflow: auto ?
  910. # [16:23] <Neiluj> O_o
  911. # [16:23] <line> because i'm doing scroll with drag
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  913. # [16:23] <line> for the horizontal container
  914. # [16:23] <line> sorry, i missed this explanation :)
  915. # [16:23] <Neiluj> mmh...
  916. # [16:23] <Neiluj> I can't scroll horizontally
  917. # [16:23] <Neiluj> I can sorry
  918. # [16:23] <line> but drag & scroll?
  919. # [16:24] <line> it's not gonna be kinetic
  920. # [16:24] <Neiluj> for touch devices, I would say : cool, for not-touch devices ? :/
  921. # [16:24] <Neiluj> not very user-friendly
  922. # [16:24] <line> based on sensitivity
  923. # [16:25] <line> http://appear.dk/
  924. # [16:25] <line> check this ou
  925. # [16:25] <Neiluj> the only reason I used $.fn.overscroll was because I made a webapp running onto a webkit browser on touchscreens, but not a mobile device
  926. # [16:25] <line> it works and pretty cool
  927. # [16:25] <Neiluj> the only reason I used iScroll was because I needed to use overflow: auto on iOS devices
  928. # [16:25] <Neiluj> and the two fingers wasn't a good option
  929. # [16:26] <line> sure
  930. # [16:26] <line> so i'm trying to understand the better solution
  931. # [16:26] <line> for developing the scrollable content on mobiles and deskto
  932. # [16:26] <line> p
  933. # [16:27] <Neiluj> http://appear.dk/ looks cool but I can't use my "native" scroll
  934. # [16:27] <line> anyway
  935. # [16:27] <line> go inside the project
  936. # [16:27] <line> i don't like usability while looking through the list of projects
  937. # [16:28] <line> but inside it's working fine
  938. # [16:28] <Neiluj> imo, removing/changing some native behaviors is not a good thing, well it can sometimes but it should really worth it
  939. # [16:29] <line> sure
  940. # [16:29] <Neiluj> see how they needed to put a tooltip to explain people how to use their site ;)
  941. # [16:29] <line> trust me in my case it's very cool :)
  942. # [16:30] <Neiluj> do you have a scrollbar ?
  943. # [16:30] <line> i have a slider
  944. # [16:30] <line> look i'll show you
  945. # [16:30] <line> http://ptarmak.com/
  946. # [16:31] <line> this is looking similar
  947. # [16:31] <line> to what i'm developing now
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  949. # [16:31] <line> i'm having a slider
  950. # [16:31] <Neiluj> a native one ?
  951. # [16:31] <line> and a scrollable container
  952. # [16:31] <line> yes, vertical
  953. # [16:31] <Neiluj> ok
  954. # [16:32] <Neiluj> see the cross cursor ? better than a tooltip, I would recommend this
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  956. # [16:32] <line> sure :)
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  960. # [16:42] <ben_c> What are peoples opinions on using 'Web Databases' in a mobile webapp? Considering it's 'no longer being worked on'
  961. # [16:42] <ben_c> Implementation is pretty good
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  987. # [17:35] <JonathanNeal> Hello
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  992. # [17:44] <paul_irish> hi
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  1001. # [18:03] <symb> lo
  1002. # [18:04] <tw2113> allo
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  1006. # [18:12] <Neiluj> hey paul_irish
  1007. # [18:13] <paul_irish> hey julien
  1008. # [18:13] <Neiluj> didn't see it in undetectables but is this kind of one : overscroll: auto on mobile devices?
  1009. # [18:13] <paul_irish> sounds like one
  1010. # [18:13] <paul_irish> overflow* ?
  1011. # [18:13] <Neiluj> thing is, it's supported but with it needs 2 fingers scroll
  1012. # [18:14] <paul_irish> oh that.
  1013. # [18:14] <Neiluj> yeah that
  1014. # [18:14] <paul_irish> sounds like a feature
  1015. # [18:14] <Neiluj> yeah, sounds too to me
  1016. # [18:14] <paul_irish> mobile gmail team overlayed a div on top of the textarea to deal with that
  1017. # [18:15] <Neiluj> mmmh interesting
  1018. # [18:15] <Neiluj> didn't test gmail on my iPad actually
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  1020. # [18:28] <ben225> Anyone have experience using jquery to swap video src in <video> ?
  1021. # [18:29] <ben225> I've built a player module, based off Video for everyone, am working on developing a thumbnail gallery that will swap the source on the dom.
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  1030. # [18:42] <mokush> what's the best way to get a property from a css file? except parsing the entire file with cssRules
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  1034. # [18:46] <paul_irish> mokush: getComputedStyle ?
  1035. # [18:47] <mokush> paul_irish: doesn't getComputedStyle work only on elements that are in the dom?
  1036. # [18:47] <paul_irish> yup
  1037. # [18:47] <paul_irish> no way other than getComputedStyle or the CSSOM
  1038. # [18:48] <mokush> paul_irish: I need to basicly get a property only defined in CSS, the actual element is not in the dom yet.
  1039. # [18:48] <mokush> right now, I'm appending the node in the dom, getting the value, and them removeing it, but it doesn't seem like the best option.
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  1041. # [18:49] <paul_irish> i dont know of a better one.
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  1043. # [18:50] <mokush> paul_irish: :((
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  1045. # [18:56] <Neiluj> ben225: I did
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  1047. # [18:57] <ben225> Neiluj, do you have a demo of what you've built?
  1048. # [18:57] <ben225> I'm just using jQuery to pull the dom (0) from the video, then manipulating it from there..
  1049. # [18:57] <ben225> I'm kind of in route, but the idea is making a module to support mp4/ogv/webm
  1050. # [18:58] <Neiluj> oh, are you talking about switch the src or the source ?
  1051. # [18:58] <Neiluj> I mean <source>
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  1058. # [19:15] <Brodingo> using video tag with vimeo videos?
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  1066. # [19:27] <Neiluj> http://mir.aculo.us/2011/02/08/visualizing-webkits-hardware-acceleration/ cool tip :)
  1067. # [19:27] <paul_irish> chrome has one too.
  1068. # [19:28] <Neiluj> paul_irish: same command ?
  1069. # [19:28] <paul_irish> --show-composited-layer-borders Renders a border around composited Render Layers to help debug and study layer compositing.
  1070. # [19:31] <Neiluj> you should tweet about it :)
  1071. # [19:31] <Neiluj> thx
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  1102. # [19:58] <paul_irish> http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=61523#c7 "Yes, Vangelis plans to turn 3D CSS on in 11 within the next week."
  1103. # [20:00] <Neiluj> btw, paul_irish, did you see my post about grayscale ?
  1104. # [20:01] <paul_irish> yes. i captured greyscale because i proposed saturation as #2 biggest feature request
  1105. # [20:01] <Neiluj> ok nice
  1106. # [20:02] <Neiluj> would it work also on <img> or background-image ?
  1107. # [20:02] <Neiluj> that would be supa cool :)
  1108. # [20:02] <paul_irish> backgrounds would be tough
  1109. # [20:03] <Neiluj> what is the current #1 request ?
  1110. # [20:03] <paul_irish> but for example: .grey, img.omgnocolor { filter: saturation(0.15); }
  1111. # [20:03] <paul_irish> blur.
  1112. # [20:04] <Neiluj> yeah i knew it :) :)
  1113. # [20:04] <Neiluj> great
  1114. # [20:05] <paul_irish> Neiluj: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Jan/0049.html
  1115. # [20:06] <Neiluj> thx bookmarked
  1116. # [20:07] <Neiluj> ok, saw your google sheet, dont know if there's a technical better name but what about bump ? is it too "3D-ish" ?
  1117. # [20:08] <Neiluj> actually, mapping (bump or displacement)
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  1119. # [20:09] <paul_irish> bump mapping? hah... good luck with that :)
  1120. # [20:09] <Neiluj> I remember to put this request
  1121. # [20:09] <Neiluj> hehe yeah I know, hard one ;)
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  1123. # [20:10] <paul_irish> the idea for these ones were to have some prebuild shorthand filters
  1124. # [20:10] <paul_irish> but for everyone to support the more standard SVG filters for full power
  1125. # [20:10] <Neiluj> actually it would just be great to shut my flash-colleague's mouth with that :D
  1126. # [20:10] <paul_irish> though.. i dont think bump mapping can be done in svg... shrug.
  1127. # [20:10] <paul_irish> since doug has svg on his notify list, he'll probably chime in at some point.. ;)
  1128. # [20:11] <Neiluj> nah I don't think so, didn't know it was about svg filters but filters in general :)
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  1130. # [20:12] <paul_irish> v
  1131. # [20:12] <paul_irish> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Feb/0298.html
  1132. # [20:13] <Neiluj> -m$- hehe good one
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  1144. # [20:43] <Neiluj> paul_irish: did you test the 4 placeholder polyfills on Modernizr's wiki ? None of them is doing the work "really" fine :(
  1145. # [20:43] <Neiluj> the hard thing is about password...
  1146. # [20:48] <Neiluj> trying webshims...
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  1165. # [21:19] <Neiluj> damn webshim is doing better placeholder but have a bug, that sucks
  1166. # [21:19] * Joins: MattDiPasquale (~MattDiPas@rrcs-184-74-229-10.nyc.biz.rr.com)
  1167. # [21:20] <danielfilho> dude. I think prefer web inspector instead of firebug. Are so rare when I need to open firebug to debug something couldn't with web inspector.
  1168. # [21:20] <danielfilho> like, I switched :D
  1169. # [21:21] <danielfilho> And dragonfly still great.
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  1172. # [21:42] <mokush_> danielfilho: if only it would have some sort of option to disable cache, like firebug
  1173. # [21:42] <danielfilho> that would be totally amazing.
  1174. # [21:42] <danielfilho> but I'm sure they're working on something like that
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  1177. # [21:47] <Pewpewarrows> I just test everything in incognito
  1178. # [21:47] <Pewpewarrows> eliminates most cache issues I ever have
  1179. # [21:48] <paul_irish> there JUST landed a button to clear the cache
  1180. # [21:51] <Neiluj> paul_irish: without quitting ?
  1181. # [21:52] <Peter`> paul_irish: huh?
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  1184. # [21:54] <Kilian]> hi
  1185. # [21:55] <paul_irish> http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/77922 <== Neiluj Peter`
  1186. # [21:55] <paul_irish> see alsso http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=8742
  1187. # [21:56] <Peter`> paul_irish: that's a shortcut
  1188. # [21:56] <Peter`> Ctrl(Cmd)+Shift+R
  1189. # [21:57] <Kilian]> i want to use the html5 video tag with firefox4 beta nightly build, problem is that my video, an ogv (theroa video with vorbis audio) isnt regocnized, if read that it have to be changed in the htaccess file of appache, anotehr soultion could be to add type and codec information to the videotag but this doesnt help, i have no access to the servers apache atm, so is there another way to get this video playing on Firefox4beta?
  1190. # [21:57] * Quits: skqr (~skqr@192.195.66.1) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  1191. # [21:58] <Neiluj> Kilian]: did you implemented it this way ? http://zeedev.aaz.fr/chrome-video-autoplay-bug/
  1192. # [21:58] <Neiluj> Kilian]: look at <source>
  1193. # [21:59] <Kilian]> lol both videos are autoplayed for me ...
  1194. # [21:59] <Neiluj> Kilian]: it's a chrome bug ;)
  1195. # [21:59] <Neiluj> like its name says
  1196. # [21:59] <Kilian]> Neiluj: mostly the same like my side
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  1199. # [22:00] <Neiluj> Kilian]: so you used <source type="video/ogg"> and nothing happens ?
  1200. # [22:00] <Kilian]> <source src='tablet.ogv' type='video/ogg; codecs="theora, vorbis"' />
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  1202. # [22:01] <Kilian]> thats what iam using
  1203. # [22:01] <Neiluj> ok
  1204. # [22:01] <Neiluj> try just video/ogg just to see...
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  1206. # [22:02] <key> http://www.pastie.org/private/z4e91xoa8dx8twu4etl2ua <-- this is my question, version 2 (include all submenus whether they're active or not) or version 3 (have server only include submenu that is active)?
  1207. # [22:03] <Kilian]> Neiluj: same problem
  1208. # [22:03] <Neiluj> Kilian]: okay, weird
  1209. # [22:03] <Neiluj> Kilian]: what did you use for encoding ?
  1210. # [22:04] <Kilian]> for my video ?
  1211. # [22:04] <Neiluj> key: version twoooooo ! :D
  1212. # [22:04] <Neiluj> Kilian]: yup
  1213. # [22:04] <key> we know you prefer that one! :P
  1214. # [22:04] <Kilian]> i create it with kdenlive
  1215. # [22:04] <Kilian]> mom
  1216. # [22:04] <Neiluj> Kilian]: have a link ?
  1217. # [22:05] <Neiluj> did you try reading this video with VLC or something ?
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  1219. # [22:05] <Kilian]> Neiluj: video is working
  1220. # [22:06] <Kilian]> kdenlive told me its using theora with libvornis
  1221. # [22:06] <Kilian]> *vorbis
  1222. # [22:06] <Neiluj> Kilian]: what is VLC telling you ?
  1223. # [22:06] <Kilian]> vlc info says the same
  1224. # [22:06] <Neiluj> ok
  1225. # [22:06] <Neiluj> weird :)
  1226. # [22:07] <Kilian]> and its working with chromium but not with firefox
  1227. # [22:08] <Kilian]> thanks for help, so it looks like i have to change apaches mime types ...
  1228. # [22:10] <franksalim> At least according to https://developer.mozilla.org/En/HTML/Element/Video, "if the MIME types for Theora video are not set on the server, the video may not show or show a gray box containing an X"
  1229. # [22:10] <Neiluj> sounds to, I don't know if my apache is handling it, actually I don't have a hand on this
  1230. # [22:11] <Kilian]> and i have no access at the moment to the apache
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  1232. # [22:11] <Kilian]> thansk for the help
  1233. # [22:11] <Neiluj> you're welcome, maybe .htaccess can do the job ? any htaccess experts in here ?
  1234. # [22:12] <Neiluj> Kilian]: http://html5boilerplate.com/ > .htaccess
  1235. # [22:12] <Neiluj> AddType video/ogg ogg ogv
  1236. # [22:12] <Neiluj> oops AddType video/ogg ogg ogv
  1237. # [22:13] <Kilian]> thanks
  1238. # [22:14] <key> that html5 boiletplate looks good
  1239. # [22:14] <Neiluj> key: say thanks to paul_irish, he's THE guy
  1240. # [22:14] <key> yea he seems like a genius
  1241. # [22:14] <Neiluj> ?fpi
  1242. # [22:14] <bot-t> fucking paul irish! http://i.imgur.com/gpspl.png
  1243. # [22:15] <key> except, "<!-- Uncomment if you are specifically targeting less enabled mobile browsers " seems fucked up
  1244. # [22:15] <key> he should fix that
  1245. # [22:15] <key> hahaha
  1246. # [22:15] <key> wtf
  1247. # [22:15] <Neiluj> got to go, bye guys
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  1249. # [22:16] <Kilian]> bye
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  1255. # [22:21] <JonathanNeal> word
  1256. # [22:24] <key> paul_irish: i have a question regarding how to handle my submenu. should i put every submenu in my menu and just hide inactive ones? or should i use server side scripting to only put in the submenu of the active section? (http://www.pastie.org/private/z4e91xoa8dx8twu4etl2ua version 2 vs version 3)
  1257. # [22:24] <paul_irish> can't look atm. interview.
  1258. # [22:24] <key> oh, okay :/
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  1279. # [23:07] <BrianBlakely> #html5 opinions on the new HPalm devices?
  1280. # [23:08] <nimbupani> who has used it to have an opinion on it?
  1281. # [23:08] <tw2113> what are opinions?
  1282. # [23:09] <tw2113> and how much do they cost
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  1284. # [23:10] <BrianBlakely> heh, nvm!
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  1286. # [23:10] <BrianBlakely> I think they're absolutely gorgeous, and it's a real shame that webOS has such poor standards support
  1287. # [23:11] <BrianBlakely> Makes porting of iOS/Chrome apps difficult
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  1293. # [23:24] <techrush_> imo HP just announced the slow painful death of webOS today
  1294. # [23:24] <techrush_> nothing shipping until summer and no prices/carrier info available
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  1298. # [23:28] <BrianBlakely> techrush_: That was really weird, after they said the products would be launching "weeks" after the announcement
  1299. # [23:28] <BrianBlakely> Yeah, 24 weeks after...
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  1301. # [23:30] <techrush_> yea they arent giving webOS 2.0 to the old hardware owners either
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  1303. # [23:30] <techrush_> pretty bad mistep
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  1315. # [23:38] <dgathright> BrianBlakely: What are your complaints about lack of standards support in webOS?
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  1319. # [23:43] <jetienne> (webos got apps in nodejs no ? my memory is triggering this info)
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  1324. # [23:49] <BrianBlakely> dgathright: What aren't my complaints is probably a shorter list
  1325. # [23:50] <tw2113> did they typo the doctype?
  1326. # [23:50] <tw2113> :D
  1327. # [23:50] <BrianBlakely> dgathright: SVG, for starters… finicky flexbox and gradient support, nonexistent support for box/text-shadow, WebSockets, nice things like hardware acceleration, no solid plans for WebGL
  1328. # [23:51] <BrianBlakely> It's pretty piss-poor for an OS who apps are built exclusively on The Platform
  1329. # [23:52] <dgathright> BrianBlakely: Understandable. Send a list of complaints to Lisa.Brewster@palm.com. Let em know.
  1330. # [23:52] <BrianBlakely> dgathright: Are you from Palm?
  1331. # [23:52] <dgathright> nope, just an active member of the community.
  1332. # [23:53] <shepazu> I have 2 palms
  1333. # [23:53] <BrianBlakely> Oh, OK, I'm BrianMB on the dev forum
  1334. # [23:53] <dgathright> ah, cool.
  1335. # [23:53] <BrianBlakely> I've been gushing steam all day on there, admittedly :3
  1336. # [23:53] <BrianBlakely> But I won't muck up this channel with that
  1337. # [23:54] <tw2113> if only we had some wine so we could use the corks in BrianBlakely's ears
  1338. # [23:54] <tw2113> keep the steam bottled up
  1339. # [23:54] <BrianBlakely> Yes …?
  1340. # [23:54] <tw2113> we could turn him into a steam engine
  1341. # [23:54] <tw2113> :D
  1342. # [23:55] <dgathright> BrianBlakely: websockets can be handled with socket.io (client) or Node (server-side). I've done it w/ my Pre2 device. Besides, websockets are currently disabled in all browsers because of security issues (right?). I too am a little disappointed they haven't followed through with promise (in the spring) for hardware accelerated CSS animations.
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  1344. # [23:56] <franksalim> dgathright: not disabled in chrome (or safari?) to my knowledge
  1345. # [23:56] <franksalim> (websocket)
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  1348. # [23:58] <dgathright> Ah, not disabled, yet. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebSockets "Chrome also plans to disable the WebSocket if actual exploit code appears before the protocol is revised"
  1349. # [23:58] <BrianBlakely> dgathright: Mobile Safari has everything webOS doesn't
  1350. # [23:58] <BrianBlakely> Mobile Safari is the REAL webOS :P
  1351. # [23:58] <franksalim> considering that this exploit also works with flash and java applets, and we haven't seen it in the wild yet...
  1352. # [23:59] * ericduran|afk is now known as ericduran
  1353. # Session Close: Thu Feb 10 00:00:00 2011

The end :)