/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-02-28 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Feb 28 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  7. # [00:07] <Samot> your so beautiful
  8. # [00:08] <nimbupani> wear so beautiful
  9. # [00:11] <Samot> like a cloud
  10. # [00:18] <JKarsrud> like a boss
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  14. # [00:29] <Moo-_> JKarsrud: :D
  15. # [00:29] <Moo-_> that's awesome music video
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  17. # [00:31] <JKarsrud> hell yeah
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  23. # [00:41] <Samot> swallow sadness
  24. # [00:41] <Samot> cry deeply
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  59. # [02:40] <cgcardona> tw2113: you mess around with codeigniter at all?
  60. # [02:40] <tw2113> nope
  61. # [02:40] <tw2113> at least haven't yet
  62. # [02:40] <cgcardona> do you know anything about model/view/controller?
  63. # [02:40] <cgcardona> MVC frameworks
  64. # [02:40] <cgcardona> like ruby on rails
  65. # [02:40] <cgcardona> or codeigniter?
  66. # [02:40] <tw2113> nope
  67. # [02:41] <cgcardona> take my advice and spend an evening checking out codeigniter
  68. # [02:41] <tw2113> i'll look into it
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  84. # [03:32] <grantg> paul_irish: Heh, ran into a null terminating string issue in js.
  85. # [03:33] <grantg> I had a null prematurely end a string, even though there was more data in the string after null. :P
  86. # [03:33] <grantg> classic C-ish mistake
  87. # [03:34] <grantg> I was noticing some debug text was missing, and it was because a null was being used instead of a space char
  88. # [03:34] <grantg> :/
  89. # [03:35] <grantg> Add that to WTFJS
  90. # [03:35] <grantg> :P
  91. # [03:35] <grantg> Shit from C leaks over to JS
  92. # [03:35] <grantg> heh
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  102. # [04:52] <alcuadrado> is there any pushState pollyfill that uses hashbangs if they are not supported?
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  114. # [05:32] <grantg> paul_irish: I'm back on Twitter. :/
  115. # [05:34] <grantg> niftylettuce: Any word on the group yet?
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  117. # [05:38] <grantg> http://twitter.com/#!/grant_galitz
  118. # [05:38] <socialhapy> http://bit.ly/ii6tOJ @grant_galitz: http://www.grantgalitz.org/gameboy/ is still up.
  119. # [05:38] <grantg> :P
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  121. # [05:44] <jetienne> grantg: you worked at moz ?
  122. # [05:45] <grantg> no
  123. # [05:45] <grantg> no relation
  124. # [05:45] <grantg> heh
  125. # [05:45] <grantg> just like firefox 4
  126. # [05:45] <grantg> :P
  127. # [05:45] <jetienne> grantg: just wondering as you follow a lot of moz people
  128. # [05:45] <jetienne> ok :)
  129. # [05:45] <grantg> heh
  130. # [05:45] <grantg> jetienne: I need to follow more
  131. # [05:45] <grantg> heh
  132. # [05:46] <alcuadrado> grantg, you are the gameboy emulator guy, right? cool!
  133. # [05:46] <grantg> I still can't take twitter seriously
  134. # [05:46] <alcuadrado> I've been interested in that topic a couple of months ago
  135. # [05:46] <grantg> alcuadrado: yeah
  136. # [05:46] <alcuadrado> but decided to emulate m68k as the first try, and defeated :( haha
  137. # [05:46] <grantg> https://github.com/grantgalitz/GameBoy-Online
  138. # [05:47] <grantg> heh
  139. # [05:47] <grantg> motorola 68 k you say?
  140. # [05:47] <alcuadrado> yeah, it would be cool
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  142. # [05:47] <alcuadrado> lot's of devices used it
  143. # [05:47] * grantg smells a Genesis emulator
  144. # [05:47] <alcuadrado> old macs, genesis
  145. # [05:47] <alcuadrado> :)
  146. # [05:47] <grantg> :P
  147. # [05:47] <grantg> alcuadrado: I need to get JS GBA out still
  148. # [05:48] <alcuadrado> it basically a m68k, a z80 for audio, and a specific GPU that I can't remember
  149. # [05:48] <grantg> taking forever * infinity
  150. # [05:48] <grantg> slcuadrado: Some TI derived GPU
  151. # [05:48] <grantg> heh
  152. # [05:48] <alcuadrado> yeah, that's right
  153. # [05:49] <grantg> Anything < 20 mhz should not be JIT'd
  154. # [05:49] <grantg> so
  155. # [05:49] <grantg> interpreter loop then
  156. # [05:49] <alcuadrado> that's what i was going to ask you about haha
  157. # [05:49] <grantg> It's a general rule
  158. # [05:49] <grantg> for caching efficiency correlates somewhat
  159. # [05:50] <grantg> /perf
  160. # [05:50] <grantg> What did you want to ask?
  161. # [05:50] <alcuadrado> all this can to my mind when I saw a post from Robert O'Callahan about JITin in js
  162. # [05:50] <grantg> heh
  163. # [05:50] <alcuadrado> it fou used some kind of recompilation for target the JIT
  164. # [05:51] <grantg> But emulation of a CPU that's very slow like a 6502 or a Z80 *needs* clock-cycle accuracy
  165. # [05:51] <alcuadrado> (I didn't know it was in github :P)
  166. # [05:51] <grantg> and a lot can invalidate code-caching
  167. # [05:51] <grantg> namely IRQ throws
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  169. # [05:51] <grantg> like on a gameboy
  170. # [05:52] <grantg> every couple dozen to hundred clock cycles is an IRQ
  171. # [05:52] <grantg> so that'd f**k up JIT
  172. # [05:52] <grantg> now
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  174. # [05:53] <grantg> Something like x86 or powerpc emulation can be JIT'd
  175. # [05:53] <grantg> even MIPS
  176. # [05:53] <grantg> because you can code-cache stuff without crazy amounts of invalidation of jit-cached code
  177. # [05:54] <grantg> and usually the faster the processor, the more likely the code is not dependent on clock cycle accuracy
  178. # [05:55] <grantg> so emulating a powerpc at 100 mhz doesn't require clock cycle accuracy, nevertheless it can be jit'd
  179. # [05:55] <grantg> so jit gets way easier with faster processors
  180. # [05:55] <grantg> because then you can ignore a lot of clock cycle accuracy
  181. # [05:55] <alcuadrado> it was one of my main concerns
  182. # [05:56] <grantg> JS GBA is interpreter loop though, because there are clock-cycle specific things going on still
  183. # [05:56] <grantg> and < 17 Mhz
  184. # [05:56] <grantg> ARM7TDMI
  185. # [05:56] <alcuadrado> I was planning to do a fully intepreted one, and then optimize if necessary
  186. # [05:56] <grantg> If it was an ARM Cortex at 600 mhz, it'd be different
  187. # [05:56] <grantg> alcuadrado: Get a fast interpreter loop first
  188. # [05:56] <grantg> then optimize
  189. # [05:57] <grantg> also
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  191. # [05:57] <grantg> you saw https://github.com/grantgalitz/GameBoy-Online ?
  192. # [05:57] <grantg> Noticed how a lot of functions are in arrays?
  193. # [05:57] <alcuadrado> sure, as the good old donald sais bit.ly/PREMATURE
  194. # [05:58] <grantg> doing memory handling by mem[address](ref, address, data)
  195. # [05:58] <grantg> is faster
  196. # [05:58] <grantg> than switches
  197. # [05:58] <grantg> because you usually need to go multiple conditionals deep the traditional way that uses switches
  198. # [05:59] <grantg> so func at address in an array is faster
  199. # [05:59] <grantg> (big speedup)
  200. # [05:59] <grantg> alcuadrado: Are you using typed arrays?
  201. # [06:02] <grantg> Sorry for all the lines I just typed out all at once.
  202. # [06:02] <alcuadrado> I haven't sarted it yet, I started planning it before vacations and have just returned. But I plan to use them, yes, as they should give a big preformance increase
  203. # [06:03] <grantg> firefox 4 fast-paths typed arrays, so using them to store RAM is a perf win AND a memory footprint win.
  204. # [06:04] <grantg> alcuadrado: Anyhow, if you're wondering why a lot of the gameboy pages are down, I decided against having to load in the ROMs for the users
  205. # [06:04] <grantg> They should instead go to http://www.grantgalitz.org/gameboy/ to load in their own
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  207. # [06:07] <alcuadrado> now I see what you said about functions in arrays, great idea!
  208. # [06:07] <grantg> :)
  209. # [06:07] <grantg> also
  210. # [06:07] <grantg> you can recompile these arrays, so if something gets swapped out in the memory handling, it's way easier
  211. # [06:08] <grantg> you just overwrite the funcs
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  213. # [06:08] <grantg> and this way, you can handle specific addresses for things like I/O without perf loss
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  215. # [06:10] <grantg> Hopefully, browsers can JIT these funcs in arrays as subroutines to jump to when compiled to x86 assembly code
  216. # [06:11] <alcuadrado> iteresting
  217. # [06:13] <grantg> I talked to a person who has my emulator on a tablet with the latest webkit nightly and it runs fullspeed
  218. # [06:13] <grantg> with web audio built with it
  219. # [06:13] <grantg> and that's an arm cortex at 1 ghz
  220. # [06:13] <grantg> emulating a GB-Z80 at 4 or 8 MHZ
  221. # [06:14] <grantg> in JS
  222. # [06:14] <grantg> with all the overhead of audio and gfx
  223. # [06:14] <grantg> no webworkers
  224. # [06:14] <alcuadrado> it's amazing how cool are the new js engines
  225. # [06:14] <grantg> yeah
  226. # [06:15] <alcuadrado> v8, jaeger
  227. # [06:15] <alcuadrado> they are great
  228. # [06:15] <grantg> though chrome still has issues with my emulator, particularly audio
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  230. # [06:15] <grantg> b/c web audio is broken for now
  231. # [06:15] <grantg> not for long though
  232. # [06:15] <grantg> soon my stuff will work fine in chrome
  233. # [06:16] <alcuadrado> I have issues with audio in your emu in FF4 under linux. From time to time there are some creepy noices, mostly when no audio of the game is playing. But I've experienced smth similar in other audio apps, so maybe it's FF
  234. # [06:17] <grantg> heh
  235. # [06:17] <grantg> popping noises?
  236. # [06:17] <grantg> /clicking
  237. # [06:17] <alcuadrado> yeah
  238. # [06:17] <alcuadrado> brb
  239. # [06:18] <grantg> probably GC or something hosing it up for half a second every now and then
  240. # [06:19] <grantg> ubuntu?
  241. # [06:19] <grantg> is it every x seconds?
  242. # [06:19] <grantg> or is it unpredicable?
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  244. # [06:19] <grantg> if it's every x seconds, then it sounds like a GC prob
  245. # [06:20] <grantg> and needs to get filed as a bug report
  246. # [06:20] <SteveGL> The audio for me, is broken in Webkit nightlies, similar to Chrome on Mac OS X 10.6.6.
  247. # [06:20] <grantg> Flight of the Navigator had a GC bug too
  248. # [06:21] <grantg> SteveGL: Try this on your mac: http://chromium.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/samples/audio/bin/WebKit-audio.05Jan2011.zip
  249. # [06:21] <grantg> That's webkit WITH web audio. :D
  250. # [06:21] <SteveGL> ah, okay :)
  251. # [06:22] <grantg> heh
  252. # [06:22] <grantg> web audio is real close to being mainstream in webkit browsers
  253. # [06:22] <grantg> it's off by default in chrome
  254. # [06:22] <grantg> and needs to get fixed in chrome still
  255. # [06:22] <grantg> but the safari version is ok, but needs to be built with it
  256. # [06:23] <SteveGL> I didn't realize it wasn't enabled.
  257. # [06:23] <grantg> heh
  258. # [06:23] <grantg> about:flags
  259. # [06:24] <grantg> SteveGL: I've told people this way too many times here, but I use a WAV PCM data URI fallback for audio
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  261. # [06:24] <grantg> if support isn't found for other stuff
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  266. # [06:45] <alcuadrado> grantg, I'm back
  267. # [06:45] <alcuadrado> yeah, I'm in ubuntu 10.10
  268. # [06:45] <grantg> k
  269. # [06:45] <grantg> ::/
  270. # [06:45] <alcuadrado> with the lastest beta of FF4
  271. # [06:46] <grantg> does it pause every x seconds with exact timing?
  272. # [06:46] <alcuadrado> give me a second to download a rom and I'll tell you more
  273. # [06:46] <grantg> what processor?
  274. # [06:46] <grantg> core?
  275. # [06:46] <grantg> p4?
  276. # [06:46] <grantg> i5?
  277. # [06:47] <grantg> i7?
  278. # [06:47] <grantg> atom?
  279. # [06:47] <alcuadrado> p4, a T4200 @ 2.00GHz
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  281. # [06:48] <alcuadrado> an inspiron 1545: http://www.dell.com/us/p/inspiron-15/pd
  282. # [06:48] <alcuadrado> I thougt that were the specs, sorry
  283. # [06:48] <grantg> core 2 duo
  284. # [06:48] <alcuadrado> yeah, they are in there
  285. # [06:49] <alcuadrado> not my version :(
  286. # [06:49] <grantg> so it should technically run just like my mac
  287. # [06:49] <grantg> heh
  288. # [06:49] <alcuadrado> it's a pentium dual core
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  290. # [06:49] <grantg> lol
  291. # [06:49] <grantg> alcuadrado: Basically the celeron version of the core series
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  293. # [06:49] <Neiluj> hello
  294. # [06:49] <oeyeso> hello
  295. # [06:50] <alcuadrado> yeah, more or less that haha they have faster clocks but much less cache
  296. # [06:50] <grantg> alcuadrado: Does it pause with predictable timing?
  297. # [06:50] <alcuadrado> so overall performance is lower
  298. # [06:50] <grantg> every x seconds?
  299. # [06:51] <alcuadrado> the entire game or the sound?
  300. # [06:51] <grantg> whole thing
  301. # [06:52] <grantg> either
  302. # [06:54] <alcuadrado> not a regular intervals
  303. # [06:54] <grantg> heh
  304. # [06:55] <grantg> CPU usage?
  305. # [06:55] <grantg> Is firefox hitting 100%?
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  308. # [06:57] <alcuadrado> about 80%
  309. # [06:58] <alcuadrado> I expected some pauses, the GC for sure
  310. # [06:58] <alcuadrado> during pauses the cpu usage lowers down
  311. # [06:58] <grantg> GC then
  312. # [06:58] <grantg> if the CPU drops during the pauses, then it's GC for sure
  313. # [06:59] <grantg> should be a filed firefox bug then. :/
  314. # [06:59] <alcuadrado> but that's not the same sound problem I was talking about
  315. # [06:59] <alcuadrado> I should grab another ROM, this pokemon one has music all the time
  316. # [06:59] <alcuadrado> and the problem is when there's not music
  317. # [07:00] <grantg> you'll hear clicks and pops, right?
  318. # [07:00] <grantg> if you move firefox around / resize it /etc. it might do that
  319. # [07:00] <grantg> system processes can hose up the audio causing the pops
  320. # [07:00] <alcuadrado> yes, they are like pops
  321. # [07:00] <grantg> I'm outputting audio *even when no sound is audibly heard*
  322. # [07:01] <grantg> My neutral is -1, while the system is 0
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  324. # [07:01] <grantg> so if something stutters, you'll hear a click/pop from it interfacing between 0 and -1
  325. # [07:03] <alcuadrado> it must be that
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  327. # [07:04] <grantg> still
  328. # [07:04] <grantg> it should never reach that
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  330. # [07:05] <grantg> unless the system hoses up
  331. # [07:05] <grantg> from the GC or something
  332. # [07:05] <grantg> because I buffer the audio
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  335. # [07:06] <alcuadrado> it's about 90% of CPU after the pops
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  338. # [07:10] <grantg> hmm
  339. # [07:10] <grantg> you might be max'ing out firefox
  340. # [07:10] <grantg> and CPU usage increasing after the pops means I'm adding more than usual to the buffer
  341. # [07:11] <grantg> to pad it back up from 0
  342. # [07:14] <grantg> nn
  343. # [07:14] <grantg> gtg sleep
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  369. # [08:51] <phrearch> hello
  370. # [08:51] <phrearch> anyone can help me with this specification of selectionStart (textarea)?
  371. # [08:51] <phrearch> i"The index of the beginning of selected text. HTML5 If no text is selected, contains the index of the character that follows the input cursor. On being set, the control behaves as if setSelectionRange() had been called with this as the first argument, and selectionEnd as the second argument."
  372. # [08:51] <phrearch> whats meant with the input cursor?
  373. # [08:52] <phrearch> if no text is selected, then there is no caret in the first place right?
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  376. # [08:56] <Neiluj> phrearch: depends on the input/textarea content
  377. # [08:56] <Neiluj> if there's a content, the caret used to be at the end
  378. # [08:56] <phrearch> aha, so when unfocussed, selectionStart is at the end?
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  380. # [08:57] <phrearch> basically im trying to convert this collabeditor code to a contenteditable div
  381. # [08:57] <phrearch> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/345640/
  382. # [08:57] <phrearch> selectionStart doesnt have an equivalent with a contenteditable i think
  383. # [09:00] <phrearch> i started with http://paste.pocoo.org/show/345642/
  384. # [09:00] <phrearch> it seems to work as long the remote user has the div focussed
  385. # [09:02] <Neiluj> mmh good question
  386. # [09:04] <phrearch> i think i need to create a range in case there is none available
  387. # [09:05] <Neiluj> phrearch: could be useful http://www.quirksmode.org/dom/range_intro.html
  388. # [09:05] <phrearch> thanks, i already went through that
  389. # [09:05] <phrearch> looking at the mozilla docs atm
  390. # [09:05] <phrearch> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/DOM/range
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  393. # [09:06] <phrearch> so in case the range has to be created, the caret/selectionStart should be at the end of the text?
  394. # [09:08] <Neiluj> yes that's a common (standard?) behavior I think
  395. # [09:09] <Neiluj> but sometimes on focus the field is fully selected from start to end :-/
  396. # [09:09] <Neiluj> it depends on the focus method I think
  397. # [09:09] <phrearch> yea indeed
  398. # [09:09] <Neiluj> if you focus a field with "tab" or with the cursor
  399. # [09:10] <phrearch> hm, at least i got some more predictable behaviour from my infinote editor now :)
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  406. # [09:35] <niftylettuce> grantg: yt
  407. # [09:39] <phrearch> hm, i get a INDEX_SIZE_ERR on range.setStart
  408. # [09:39] <phrearch> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/345656/
  409. # [09:40] <phrearch> line 42
  410. # [09:40] <phrearch> it only happens when the caret is set
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  415. # [10:01] <phrearch> hm, i wonder why this editable div looses focus when some input is added remotely
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  442. # [13:14] <Drule> So... I have a question about links. I have a collection of social networking links in the upper right corner of my website, inside the header. Should that link section be a list or just loose anchors? Also, according to HTML5 standards, should it also be a nav?
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  458. # [14:38] <bobslaede> hi guys. I've found a bug with IE8, if anybody want to confirm this, or maybe let me know if this has happened before? Or maybe where to take this...
  459. # [14:38] <Moo-_> bobslaede: just send email to steveb@microsoft.com :)
  460. # [14:38] <bobslaede> Moo-_: will do ;)
  461. # [14:38] <Moo-_> IE8 does not support HTML5
  462. # [14:38] <bobslaede> yeah, but kinda just wanted a place to ask :)
  463. # [14:39] <bobslaede> this place is full of bright people you know ;)
  464. # [14:39] <Moo-_> bobslaede: you will probably only hear the mourning of other pitiful souls dealing with IE :)
  465. # [14:39] <bobslaede> also, there isnt an #ie8 channel :P
  466. # [14:40] <Moo-_> bobslaede: but to get answer, you need to ask the question first :)
  467. # [14:40] <bobslaede> Moo-_: yeah... IE is not exactly a friend... This is a rather specific bug for IE8/Win7
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  469. # [14:40] <bobslaede> Having a transparent iframe ontop of a link with an image, the link will shine thru
  470. # [14:41] <bobslaede> I do have a test page, if you're interested
  471. # [14:41] <bobslaede> and have IE8/Win7
  472. # [14:41] <bobslaede> IE9 beta wont work
  473. # [14:41] <bobslaede> or any other combination of IE and windows
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  506. # [16:14] <paulrouget> I did this: http://paulrouget.com/e/nativecontrols
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  532. # [17:11] <jetienne> q. how html5 did its logo ? who did it ? im trying to see if we can get a js specific logo
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  540. # [17:28] <Neiluj> jetienne: good idea, W3C ask an agency to do it, but W3C "owns" it in a way
  541. # [17:29] <jetienne> Neiluj: they paid ? or the agency did it for the pleasure/fame ?
  542. # [17:29] <Neiluj> dunno
  543. # [17:30] <jetienne> Neiluj: we were considering organizing a contest. thus submissions of logo are free, and js got promoted. what do you think ?
  544. # [17:30] <jetienne> is that doable ? naive ? good idea ? any feedback :)
  545. # [17:35] <miketaylr> w3c doens't really "own" JS
  546. # [17:35] <miketaylr> so i dunno if they'd host that logo with the others
  547. # [17:35] <miketaylr> (if that even matters)
  548. # [17:35] <jetienne> miketaylr: he meant the logo of w3c i think
  549. # [17:36] <jetienne> this is how i understood it at least :)
  550. # [17:36] <miketaylr> ah, ok
  551. # [17:36] * miketaylr keeps quiet
  552. # [17:36] <jetienne> miketaylr: or be verbose on my question about how to create a js logo ? :)
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  554. # [17:37] <miketaylr> no idea, i'm no artist... or approach someone at ECMA and ask if they want one
  555. # [17:37] <miketaylr> http://www.ecma-international.org/memento/TC39.htm
  556. # [17:38] <jetienne> dunno about ecma but we want/need one
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  558. # [17:39] <miketaylr> oh just saying they "own" javascript/ecmascript...so it might get more traction if they endorsed it
  559. # [17:40] <jetienne> clearly. just i dont want/know how to handle/approche them, and i would expect a lot of time would be needed
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  561. # [17:41] <jetienne> if this logo is down and nice, they can endorse it
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  585. # [18:37] <danielfilho> paul_irish: I'm going to suggest a feature to chrome, is there any place where I can check if it hasn't been suggested yet?
  586. # [18:38] <BrianBlakely> http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/list
  587. # [18:38] <paul_irish> crbug.com
  588. # [18:38] <BrianBlakely> danielfilho:
  589. # [18:38] <BrianBlakely> >_<
  590. # [18:38] <danielfilho> it's not a bug :(
  591. # [18:38] <BrianBlakely> It's a feature!
  592. # [18:38] <danielfilho> i'm going to suggest a way to send pages through email
  593. # [18:38] <danielfilho> yup!
  594. # [18:38] <danielfilho> oh, I see :D thanks
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  596. # [18:40] <BrianBlakely> paul_irish: HTML5 Mobile BP — viewport corner case … fixed-width designs that auto-scale are not supported by device-width
  597. # [18:42] <jetienne> is there some way to handle webapp layout such as they are independant of the screen resolution ? android did some work on it for 3.0. is there a research paper i missed or something describing the principles behind
  598. # [18:42] <BrianBlakely> For fixed-width mobile designs, it seems you have to choose between auto-scaling (via width=[num_pixels]) or user scaling (due to lack of user-scalable)
  599. # [18:43] <BrianBlakely> jetienne: Describe your use-case a little more?
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  601. # [18:43] <jetienne> BrianBlakely: not really a use case. ok let me try
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  603. # [18:43] <BrianBlakely> jetienne: It's a big question, so let's get more specific
  604. # [18:44] <jetienne> BrianBlakely: suppose you write a webapp. you got desktop with large screens. tablet with small screen, and phone with tiny screens
  605. # [18:44] <BrianBlakely> Yep
  606. # [18:44] <jetienne> BrianBlakely: i dont want to write all of the possibilities
  607. # [18:44] <BrianBlakely> Certainly not
  608. # [18:44] <jetienne> BrianBlakely: is there a way to write one layout and have it magically fit
  609. # [18:44] <jetienne> BrianBlakely: even if it constraints how i do my layout
  610. # [18:45] <BrianBlakely> Are we talking a fluid or fixed layout?
  611. # [18:45] <jetienne> BrianBlakely: android 3.0 did some works on this to allow running phone app on tablet
  612. # [18:45] <BrianBlakely> jetienne: You can totally do that in CSS
  613. # [18:46] <jetienne> BrianBlakely: flexible for sure. but more than that
  614. # [18:46] <paul_irish> BrianBlakely: can you file a ticket on the mobile BP repo?
  615. # [18:46] <BrianBlakely> flexbox is a nice place to start. You can make some elements fixed and others fluid, with thtat
  616. # [18:46] <BrianBlakely> paul_irish: Sure
  617. # [18:46] <jetienne> BrianBlakely: how can i do it in css ? keywords or url are appreciatd
  618. # [18:47] <BrianBlakely> jetienne: paul_irish wrote what is perhaps the best flexbox crash course - http://www.html5rocks.com/tutorials/flexbox/quick/
  619. # [18:47] <jetienne> BrianBlakely: cool. reading
  620. # [18:48] <BrianBlakely> jetienne: Media Queries are also amazing, but people always use px to set rules. I suggest measuring the with in inches or centimeters, and converting to a single-column design when the window/device is <6in
  621. # [18:49] <BrianBlakely> jetienne: I don't know of a great MQ article, but quick Google search: http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2010/07/19/how-to-use-css3-media-queries-to-create-a-mobile-version-of-your-website/
  622. # [18:49] <BrianBlakely> jetienne: You'll see they use "max-device-width: 480px", in that article but 'tis a fool's game they be playing
  623. # [18:50] <BrianBlakely> It should really be "max-device-width: 5in" or some-such
  624. # [18:50] <jetienne> BrianBlakely: i have looked some slides recommending to do mobile version first and then port to desktop
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  626. # [18:51] <BrianBlakely> jetienne: I have also seen people say this, but dude I don't think it matters. The reason this is said is because people will design for desktop and then paint themselves into a corner and their designs won't be flexible enough to go into "mobile mode"
  627. # [18:51] <BrianBlakely> jetienne: If you keep both platforms in mind at all times, you can start from either end
  628. # [18:52] <jetienne> BrianBlakely: ok thanks a lot for the advices :)
  629. # [18:52] <BrianBlakely> jetienne: My pleasure :)
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  681. # [20:41] <masondesu> What is up? Are ya'll having a huge HTML5 party in here?
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  688. # [21:02] <hober> masondesu: if writing test cases for css3 means having a huge html5 party, then yes
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  690. # [21:08] <masondesu> sounds like a party to me ;D
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  721. # [22:10] <xonecas> ls
  722. # [22:10] <bot-t> (432 hours ago) <paul_irish> tell xonecas most people use the standard gettext i18n methods..
  723. # [22:11] <paul_irish> cd .
  724. # [22:12] <nimbupani> pwd
  725. # [22:12] <xonecas> eh
  726. # [22:12] <xonecas> at least this time it wasn't 1000 hours
  727. # [22:12] <xonecas> paul_irish: I'm trying to use a mac for dev, and I know you're all about mac, so I have 3 questions for you:
  728. # [22:13] <xonecas> what terminal client? how to add textMate/macvim to the finder window? and screencasting tool?
  729. # [22:13] <paul_irish> i aint all about it but been using osx as my dev environment for 3 yrs
  730. # [22:14] <xonecas> sorry, bas asumption then.
  731. # [22:14] <xonecas> *bad
  732. # [22:14] <paul_irish> 1) iterm2 . i have a post coming on how to pimp out your shell
  733. # [22:14] <paul_irish> 2) http://manas.tungare.name/software/finder-toolbar-scripts/
  734. # [22:14] <paul_irish> 3) screenflow does the webcam/screenrecord combo. it's great.
  735. # [22:16] <xonecas> awesome, thank you! Its quite dissapointing to come from a linux terminal to the Terminal.app
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  739. # [22:20] <masondesu> paul_irish: watched that Chrome Dev Tool tips video today. You speak so calmly in it. Did you knock down a can of Slo Yo Roll before you narrated? ;D
  740. # [22:21] * yarwin_away is now known as yarwin
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  743. # [22:21] <hober> xonecas: what's disappointing in Terminal.app?
  744. # [22:22] <hober> the only thing that drove me nuts was the lack of 256 color support, but I believe you'll find that was fixed in the Lion developer preview that came out last week
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  746. # [22:27] <xonecas> hober: oh good, I was hoping some was done about it. I guess its just little things I have against it, I was hoping for something more like gnome-term or xterm itself
  747. # [22:27] <xonecas> 256 color support, speed, the prompt, the lack of recognition of bash_* files
  748. # [22:28] <xonecas> it drives me mad that it starts blinking the whole window when I open a vim with t_Co set to 256
  749. # [22:28] <xonecas> I have to quit the app to put it back
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  752. # [22:30] <hober> I don't know what you mean by "the lack of recognition of bash_* files"
  753. # [22:30] <hober> that sounds like a bash thing, not a Terminal.app thing
  754. # [22:30] * hober 's shell is tcsh, so he can't help there
  755. # [22:31] <xonecas> hober: yeah, it will only look for bashrc
  756. # [22:31] <hober> oh, you just need to make sure you're opening a login shell in the terminal profile
  757. # [22:31] <xonecas> hum, I didn't know that
  758. # [22:31] <xonecas> thanks :-)
  759. # [22:31] <hober> same deal with xterm, gnome-terminal, etc
  760. # [22:32] <hober> they have the same setting
  761. # [22:32] <xonecas> But its usualy set for you
  762. # [22:32] <hober> maybe the defaults aren't what you expect in this case
  763. # [22:32] <xonecas> exactly
  764. # [22:32] <hober> but also, that's the same thing as the bash_login thing
  765. # [22:32] <xonecas> its the learning curve switching from linux to mac
  766. # [22:32] <hober> since bash will run that file when launched as a login shell
  767. # [22:32] <xonecas> got it!
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  772. # [22:44] <jetienne> ff disables websocket BUT new WebSocket still work in js... => time out to know they dont work
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  776. # [23:07] <xonecas> paul_irish: nimbupani white-space: pre-line; removes line indentation
  777. # [23:07] <xonecas> is that intended?
  778. # [23:08] <paul_irish> yeahhhhhh
  779. # [23:08] <paul_irish> um
  780. # [23:08] <nimbupani> there is an issue about pre wrap
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  782. # [23:08] <nimbupani> we gotta get on it :|
  783. # [23:08] <paul_irish> yeahhh
  784. # [23:08] <paul_irish> did you see the funny comment
  785. # [23:08] <nimbupani> yeah
  786. # [23:08] <nimbupani> :)
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  788. # [23:09] <paul_irish> https://github.com/paulirish/html5-boilerplate/issues#issue/294
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  793. # [23:21] <thatryan> hey paul_irish you be in the hizzle?
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  795. # [23:27] <paul_irish> nice nettuts post bro
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  798. # [23:31] <thatryan> hey thanks man
  799. # [23:32] <thatryan> i had a question fo ya :) the optimized google analytics code, where did you explain that i cant remember where to find
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  804. # [23:39] <paul_irish> the link to mathias's article on it is in the h5bp source
  805. # [23:39] <thatryan> oh right, used to the stripped version ;) thank you sir
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The end :)