/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-09-01 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Sep 01 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  5. # [00:03] <Cradam> cheilmann: ie5 using boss, noone uses ie5
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  8. # [00:03] <cheilmann> Cradam careful with the truisms
  9. # [00:04] <Cradam> i dont support lower than ie7
  10. # [00:04] <Cradam> ie7 only if someone pulls me up about it
  11. # [00:04] <cheilmann> yeah, you also don't build software for government, universities or large corporations.
  12. # [00:04] <Cradam> nope
  13. # [00:05] <Cradam> if i did i would charge a lot more
  14. # [00:05] <newz2000> paul_irish: thanks for the link, that's awesome.
  15. # [00:05] <andrewjbaker> But this is part of the problem.
  16. # [00:06] <andrewjbaker> All the time we accommodate older browsers, we shoot ourselves in the foot.
  17. # [00:06] <newz2000> we don't accommodate browsers, we accommodate people. Sadly, some people don't have the option to change.
  18. # [00:06] * Joins: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113)
  19. # [00:06] <andrewjbaker> If everyone turned round and said, "Yeah, we'll design this Web site for ya', but only from x, y, and z features." It'd be better for everyone.
  20. # [00:07] <cheilmann> depends
  21. # [00:07] <Cradam> i treat html5 like the language itself yet i hear confernces where they talk about a group of tech
  22. # [00:07] * newz2000 doesn't mean to get too philosophical with this
  23. # [00:07] <cheilmann> that is dangerous waters
  24. # [00:07] <cheilmann> I remember NET1.0
  25. # [00:07] <cheilmann> "works best on IE6 and falls back to other browsers"
  26. # [00:07] <cheilmann> where firefox got the Netscape 4.0 code
  27. # [00:08] <cheilmann> this post describes this really well
  28. # [00:08] <cheilmann> www.onderhond.com/blog/work/graceful-degradation-pitfalls/
  29. # [00:08] <tw2113> What's the topic? Graceful degradation?
  30. # [00:08] <tw2113> Yup, cool
  31. # [00:08] <cheilmann> yeah and how it bites you in the backside
  32. # [00:09] <Cradam> i could do with getting an android phone
  33. # [00:09] <newz2000> sadly, we're doing it again with mobile. Webkit is the new IE.
  34. # [00:09] <newz2000> :-/
  35. # [00:09] <cheilmann> I should probably email my "what I did today" - 11pm is long enough
  36. # [00:09] <andrewjbaker> ^^
  37. # [00:10] <tw2113> I'm more worried about functionality fallback than appearance fallback
  38. # [00:10] <cheilmann> 214 emails from work today - slow day
  39. # [00:10] <andrewjbaker> tw2113, agreed.
  40. # [00:11] <Cradam> cheilmann: my clients, so far all use semi-modern browsers
  41. # [00:11] <Cradam> :D
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  43. # [00:11] <Cradam> had to get tenfourfox for one client who had a PPC
  44. # [00:12] * Quits: Taftse (~Taftse@unaffiliated/taftse) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  45. # [00:12] <andrewjbaker> We recently did a site for a client, and actually added a link to where they could upgrade their browser with a warning that certain features might not work quite right unless they upgraded. Client seemed happy enough.
  46. # [00:13] <Cradam> andrewjbaker: really?
  47. # [00:13] <andrewjbaker> Yup.
  48. # [00:13] <andrewjbaker> Really, really. It surprised me too. ;-)
  49. # [00:13] <Cradam> what type of client?
  50. # [00:13] <andrewjbaker> But they were happy enough.
  51. # [00:13] <andrewjbaker> B2B.
  52. # [00:13] <tw2113> I used jquery and canvas on a site...non canvas browsers can suck it
  53. # [00:13] <Moo^_^> does it taint the canvas if I use images loaded from the same domain, different port?
  54. # [00:14] <tw2113> Which was fine cause the canvas just altered image colors
  55. # [00:14] <Cradam> taint?
  56. # [00:14] <Moo^_^> Cradam: kick in cross domain image reading protectino
  57. # [00:14] <Moo^_^> cannot access pixel data
  58. # [00:14] <cheilmann> Actually a cool tip is to add a screenshot of the Canvas functionality as a fallback describing what it does
  59. # [00:15] <cheilmann> the reason is that Facebook shows that when you post the link there :)
  60. # [00:15] <newz2000> nice trick
  61. # [00:15] <cheilmann> Moo it shouldn
  62. # [00:15] <cheilmann> t
  63. # [00:15] <cheilmann> that is one of my main annoyances, too
  64. # [00:15] <cheilmann> made the video screenshot demo much less useful :(
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  66. # [00:16] <tw2113> I can't wait for my next phone upgrade...I swear this original motorola droid has gotten slow
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  70. # [00:16] <Moo^_^> cheilmann: what facebook does with canvas?
  71. # [00:16] <tw2113> Early 2010 if not earlier...ancient in phone age
  72. # [00:17] <Cradam> tw2113: my phone is 2006
  73. # [00:17] <tw2113> Ok smartphone age :p
  74. # [00:17] <tw2113> Battery is weak too
  75. # [00:19] <Cradam> i hate how printers (the people not the machines) use 300dpi
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  78. # [00:20] <Cradam> its really annoying when they give you a design
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  81. # [00:20] <tw2113> Ooh opera mobile desktop emulator
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  83. # [00:21] <cheilmann> Moo, when you post a link in Facebook it offers you all the images in the page as the preview. If you put a screenshot of the canvas effect inside the canvas element then you get that
  84. # [00:21] <cheilmann> makes sense
  85. # [00:21] <Cradam> tw2113: you might be interested in fennec for desktops
  86. # [00:21] <cheilmann> Oh, you remind me, tomorrow is the moo.com summer party
  87. # [00:21] <tw2113> Ooh firefox mobile emulator
  88. # [00:21] <Moo^_^> cheilmann: well, I was not invited :P
  89. # [00:21] <tw2113> Link?
  90. # [00:21] <newz2000> tw2113: yes, it rocks. You can use firefly in opera full to fiddle with your styles like firebug
  91. # [00:21] <cheilmann> many people in London will be drunk.
  92. # [00:21] <newz2000> tw2113: that was about the opera mobile simulator
  93. # [00:22] <tw2113> No surprise chris
  94. # [00:22] <Cradam> newz2000: you mean dragonfly not firefly
  95. # [00:22] <newz2000> dragonfly, right. :-)
  96. # [00:22] <Moo^_^> tw2113: FYI Opera Mini emulator tricks http://opensourcehacker.com/2011/06/03/testing-localhost-site-in-opera-mini-ssh-tunnel-trick/
  97. # [00:22] <nimbu> newz2000: hahaha hifi firefly
  98. # [00:23] <nimbu> ♥ that show
  99. # [00:23] <Cradam> css slideshow,hmm why
  100. # [00:23] <newz2000> it's the best of firebug and dragonfly combined maybe
  101. # [00:24] <nimbu> :)
  102. # [00:24] <tw2113> Moo^_^: could you email me that? I'm currently on that phone I was whining about and its not liking me right now
  103. # [00:24] <tw2113> Tw2113@gmail
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  105. # [00:25] <Moo^_^> tw2113: done
  106. # [00:25] <tw2113> Thanks
  107. # [00:26] * newz2000 wonders if the twitter bootstrap form stuff will mesh nicely with html5boilerplate mobile
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  109. # [00:27] <nimbu> newz2000: mostly will
  110. # [00:27] <tw2113> This no net at home can bite me
  111. # [00:27] <newz2000> ah, their source is beautiful
  112. # [00:28] <Moo^_^> newz2000: the inner beauty one could say
  113. # [00:28] <Cradam> Wednesday i hate that word it sounds like wendsday
  114. # [00:28] <newz2000> Moo^_^: yeah. It's the sign of someone who takes great pride in their work.
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  116. # [00:30] * Moo^_^ manages to complete async <canvas> unit test with JsTestDriver
  117. # [00:31] * Moo^_^ thinks Crockford was wrong and Javascript still sucks
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  122. # [00:33] <tw2113> Just his doesn't apparently
  123. # [00:33] <cheilmann> OK I closed Spotify and the song still plays.
  124. # [00:33] <cheilmann> Ah Adobe Air - pure magic
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  126. # [00:34] <tw2113> Last.fm *gang sign*
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  128. # [00:34] <Cradam> ok so i need about 3 clients if i dont want to eat if i want to go to html5live
  129. # [00:35] <cheilmann> ah because that song played in YouTube
  130. # [00:35] <cheilmann> I should go to bed
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  132. # [00:36] <Cradam> cheilmann: will the conference be on youtube?
  133. # [00:36] <cheilmann> ask kazaa
  134. # [00:36] <cheilmann> I will do an audio recording of my talk for sure and put it on archive.org
  135. # [00:36] <cheilmann> as always
  136. # [00:37] <tw2113> You're pretty good with that
  137. # [00:37] <tw2113> Vid.ly use too
  138. # [00:38] <tw2113> I suggested vid.ly to someone on reddit a week or so ago
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  140. # [00:39] <Cradam> actually it would be 2 if i didnt eat
  141. # [00:39] <Cradam> that would be £300
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  144. # [00:41] <tw2113> I'm waiting to afford one
  145. # [00:42] <bradley> hey rotty3000
  146. # [00:43] <Cradam> i have had most of the money for the first client thats why i would only be getting £300 from 2 clients
  147. # [00:43] <bradley> I have a question that dates back before LR 4.0
  148. # [00:43] <bradley> sorry wrong chat
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  150. # [00:44] <Cradam> well i had most of the money from giving a guy a discount of £200 because he gave me a good lappie
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  222. # [02:35] <paul_irish> http://www.slideshare.net/toddanglin/presentations
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  228. # [02:45] <sephr> Why is there a speechchange event when there is already textInput { method == DOM_INPUT_METHOD_VOICE } ?
  229. # [02:46] <sephr> the results thing makes more sense in the textInput event due to a user using a special eye tracker IME, for example
  230. # [02:46] <sephr> so then sites can use the most appropriate match, not being limited to speech matches
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  233. # [03:01] <danielfilho> probably not yet, sephr
  234. # [03:02] <danielfilho> I'm not sure if only webkit supports it, or other engines also does.
  235. # [03:02] <danielfilho> checkin' it :)
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  267. # [05:07] <Gregor> (Sort of HTML5, sort of Firefox-specific, all nonsense!) When I put an <audio> tag in my page, on Firefox, it initially shows a loading spinner, even with preload="none" (which otherwise appears to work, as verified by httpd logs). Unfortunately, while the loading spinner is being displayed, the controls display is taller than it is at all other times. As a result, my page re-arranges itself a few seconds after loading.
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  269. # [05:08] <Gregor> Anybody happen to know of a way to suppress this behavior?
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  292. # [06:12] <devongovett> did chrome recently start updating CSS properties asynchronously? because I'm having cases where `div.style.background` != what I just set it to if the background image is changed in rapid succession...
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  380. # [09:54] <RLa> which ide would you recommend for writing html(5) and javascript?
  381. # [09:55] <RLa> and only for html and javascript, there is no need to write in other languages like php, ruby, etc.
  382. # [09:55] <Moo^_^> RLa: if you have powerful computer use Aptana Studio
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  384. # [09:57] <RLa> but if i do not have powerful computer?
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  386. # [09:57] <RLa> also, aptana wants to use dark scheme for user interface which i am not very much used to
  387. # [09:58] <RLa> well at least aptana 3 does
  388. # [09:58] <RLa> i'm currently exploring alternatives for aptana
  389. # [09:59] <Moo^_^> RLa: you can switch the theme in the settings
  390. # [09:59] <Moo^_^> aptana 2 defaulted to black on white
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  392. # [09:59] <Moo^_^> also new laptops are cheap nowadays :)
  393. # [09:59] <Moo^_^> the best feature with Aptana is that it supports auto-completion for JS code very well
  394. # [09:59] <Moo^_^> alone worth of other problems
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  397. # [10:00] <RLa> i think it uses eclipse wtp under the hood, or at least javascript part of it
  398. # [10:01] <RLa> it even recognizes javascript "modules"
  399. # [10:02] <RLa> any idea if komodo edit is based on eclipse too?
  400. # [10:03] <Moo^_^> I don't think so
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  412. # [10:13] <RLa> komodo seems pretty nice
  413. # [10:13] <RLa> except i'm not finding how to use macro features
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  415. # [10:16] <RLa> one thing i do not get is why remote editing is such a big deal
  416. # [10:16] <RLa> why would i want to edit files over ftp
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  444. # [10:48] <Cradam> Moo^_^: why would you use an IDE for html and js?
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  472. # [11:28] <ap_PP> can anybody tell me how to run an application on remote server in browser using html5 ??
  473. # [11:29] <ap_PP> i have to run a single application
  474. # [11:29] <ap_PP> anyone there ??
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  487. # [11:43] <Cradam> ap_PP: its called server side scripting, usually php or somethign
  488. # [11:43] <Cradam> *something
  489. # [11:43] <ap_PP> no its like rdp in browser
  490. # [11:44] <ap_PP> but instead of all appications it shd run only one
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  542. # [12:12] <Cradam> i have until next saturday to find a place to live
  543. # [12:14] <LOLFormat> after that ?
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  551. # [12:20] <Cradam> i wont have a place to sleep
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  554. # [12:24] <LOLFormat> Roads are fine
  555. # [12:24] <Cradam> lol
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  576. # [12:55] <Moo^_^> Cradam: because of autocompletion
  577. # [12:55] <Moo^_^> integrated jslint
  578. # [12:55] <Moo^_^> because it makes me much more productive
  579. # [12:56] * Parts: tbassetto (u3376@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-brzijatabczvwmkg)
  580. # [12:56] <Cradam> ahh...dont need it, also my usb stick running my OS is pretty small so dont want to install unneeded stuff
  581. # [12:57] <Cradam> anyone know an alternative to gedit/kate that doesnt need gnome/kde libs?
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  585. # [12:57] <T-Co> Is it anyway possible to show image/x-jps in a webpage?
  586. # [12:58] <T-Co> (I have LG P920)
  587. # [12:59] <T-Co> It has 3d lcd, but I didn't have much luck trying to view jps with the browser
  588. # [12:59] <T-Co> I guess it essentially is browser issue?
  589. # [13:00] <Moo^_^> T-Co: well, the sad fact is that browsers support png, jpeg and gif :)
  590. # [13:00] <Moo^_^> unless LG went and hacked shit of out Android browser
  591. # [13:00] <Moo^_^> which they probably didn't
  592. # [13:00] <Moo^_^> since they are not very premium Android manufacturer
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  594. # [13:01] <T-Co> Moo^_^, Should've guessed
  595. # [13:01] <Moo^_^> T-Co: if someone has told you "it works" you have been misinformed ;)
  596. # [13:02] <Moo^_^> T-Co: what could be done is that you mark image/X-jps as forced attachment (was it disposition HTTP header)
  597. # [13:02] <Moo^_^> and the phone downloads
  598. # [13:02] <Moo^_^> and then launches Gallery
  599. # [13:02] <T-Co> Moo^_^, Yeah, the thin is that if you have any 3rd party file manager, it propably won't even open primarily with the gallery app :)
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  602. # [13:04] <T-Co> Moo^_^, http://www.intech-bb.com/watch-3d-stereoscopic-videos-on-android-webgl-html5-firefox-for-galaxy-s/
  603. # [13:05] <Moo^_^> T-Co: now you only need ask the users to download Firefox ;)
  604. # [13:05] <T-Co> Moo^_^, Yeah, tough luck
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  606. # [13:07] <Moo^_^> T-Co: with enough money you can make a custom firefox app (e.g. embedded gecko)
  607. # [13:07] <Moo^_^> but it would be as easier just to build native app for viewing x-jps
  608. # [13:08] <Cradam> Moo^_^: how big is your IDE?
  609. # [13:09] <Moo^_^> Cradam: 206 M
  610. # [13:10] <Cradam> whereas my text editor with all the deps is 25M
  611. # [13:10] <Cradam> gedit btw
  612. # [13:10] <Moo^_^> Cradam: but I can afford 4 GB of RAM on my computer >_>
  613. # [13:10] <Cradam> i have 3GB
  614. # [13:11] <Cradam> i am just using linux off of my usb
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  616. # [13:11] <Cradam> i might format my HDD and use it for data
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  618. # [13:12] <Cradam> yes, yes i shall
  619. # [13:13] <T-Co> Moo^_^, Yeah, I just confirmed my suspicions that the only way currently to take advantage of the 3d capabilities is through an application
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  621. # [13:18] <Cradam> Moo^_^: your IDE is aptana isnt it?
  622. # [13:18] <Moo^_^> yes - as stated above :)
  623. # [13:19] <Cradam> do they provide a working tar?
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  626. # [13:20] <Moo^_^> Cradam: yes they do
  627. # [13:20] <Moo^_^> I don't see why they would bother to provide broken tar :)
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  630. # [13:22] <Cradam> im saying like firefox does, some places provide a tar that still needs deps
  631. # [13:22] <Moo^_^> Cradam: Aptana is self-contained
  632. # [13:22] <Moo^_^> you just need a working Java run-time
  633. # [13:23] <Moo^_^> just extract on the desktop folder and click the launcher
  634. # [13:23] <Cradam> why do all these IDEs use java
  635. # [13:23] <Moo^_^> Cradam: because Java is a good programming language to build GUI software?
  636. # [13:23] <Cradam> ahh
  637. # [13:23] <Moo^_^> or was
  638. # [13:23] <Moo^_^> not sure about the current situation
  639. # [13:24] <Moo^_^> C# is better nowadays IMHO
  640. # [13:24] <Cradam> c# is mainly for windows though
  641. # [13:25] <Moo^_^> not any longer
  642. # [13:25] <Cradam> i tried to make a hello world app yesterday in java, got stuck on the manifest part
  643. # [13:25] <Moo^_^> it is gaining traction on mobile world too
  644. # [13:25] <Moo^_^> due to good job of Ximian
  645. # [13:25] <Moo^_^> and OSX
  646. # [13:25] <Moo^_^> basically C# provides sane language for native OSX obj-c bindings :P
  647. # [13:25] <Cradam> well java is android, i like android
  648. # [13:26] <Cradam> *is on
  649. # [13:26] <Moo^_^> Cradam: good news then http://android.xamarin.com/Welcome
  650. # [13:26] <Cradam> i dont actually have an android yet though
  651. # [13:26] <Cradam> used my mates in the past and i liked it
  652. # [13:27] <Cradam> is that c# on droid?
  653. # [13:27] <Moo^_^> yes
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  655. # [13:27] <Moo^_^> Cradam: also on iOS
  656. # [13:27] <Moo^_^> and OSX
  657. # [13:27] * Quits: Martinp23 (martinp23@freenode/staff/martinp23) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  658. # [13:27] <Moo^_^> (and Windows and Linux but that goes without saying)
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  660. # [13:28] <Cradam> why is mono charging
  661. # [13:28] <Moo^_^> Cradam: because they need to pay salary of the developers
  662. # [13:28] <Moo^_^> and people need to buy food to eat to survive
  663. # [13:29] <Cradam> well their other stuff is free
  664. # [13:29] <Moo^_^> alternative they could just give the developers spears and go to hunting in savannah
  665. # [13:29] <Moo^_^> Cradam: good for you then
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  667. # [13:29] <Cradam> btw i also like to not spend my little amount of money
  668. # [13:29] <Cradam> i have £10 in the bank
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  670. # [13:30] <Moo^_^> then it probably is not your cup of tee. they did student discounts / free licences in some point.
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  674. # [13:35] <Cradam> i really need to shut down my quassel core some time, downloading 8K messages is becoming a tangible amount of time
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  686. # [13:53] <Moo^_^> Cradam: you can set "dynamic buffers" etc. settings
  687. # [13:54] <Moo^_^> so it will download less messages per channel
  688. # [13:54] <Cradam> you use quassel?
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  691. # [13:56] <Cradam> just switched it to only download unread messages
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  709. # [14:17] <Cradam> Moo^_^: just started up aptana, i cant see anything that allows me to connect to my server
  710. # [14:17] <Moo^_^> Cradam: I don't connect to server
  711. # [14:17] <Moo^_^> I run server on my own computer
  712. # [14:17] <Moo^_^> and edit files locally
  713. # [14:17] <Moo^_^> faster
  714. # [14:18] <Moo^_^> connec to server is for poor Windows folks way of doing things
  715. # [14:19] <Moo^_^> however aptana should have a deployment tool
  716. # [14:19] <Moo^_^> I just never have used it
  717. # [14:19] <Moo^_^> Cradam: so I cannot help
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  720. # [14:21] <Cradam> Moo^_^: no it isnt for poor windows folk
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  723. # [14:21] <Cradam> its how i like to work
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  725. # [14:21] <Moo^_^> I deploy to server from the version control only
  726. # [14:21] <Moo^_^> that's the only way to make sure all code is versioned
  727. # [14:21] <Moo^_^> everything else is broken model :)
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  731. # [14:23] <Cradam> anyone know a way to get win7 fast?
  732. # [14:24] <Cradam> oh i dont care about versioning
  733. # [14:24] <Trisox> like drive to the store?
  734. # [14:24] <Cradam> Trisox: if you dont have a car
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  736. # [14:24] <Trisox> bike to the store...
  737. # [14:24] <Moo^_^> bus
  738. # [14:24] <Moo^_^> or metro
  739. # [14:24] <Trisox> by foot
  740. # [14:24] <Moo^_^> horseback riding
  741. # [14:25] <Cradam> im being paid to install it so i need a copy
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  746. # [14:25] <Trisox> your not talking about illegal activities are you :<
  747. # [14:25] <Cradam> ehh what
  748. # [14:25] <Ms2ger> Horse riding?
  749. # [14:25] <Cradam> whats a horse?
  750. # [14:26] <Trisox> preferably sea horses
  751. # [14:26] <Moo^_^> I heard ponies are popular in US
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  754. # [14:28] <Cradam> Moo^_^: where are you from?
  755. # [14:29] <Trisox> went a cowboy to the hairdresser gone ponie
  756. # [14:29] <Trisox> ....
  757. # [14:31] <mekwall> I'm on a horse.
  758. # [14:32] <Trisox> :D
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  790. # [15:25] <ezflashback> hi everyone
  791. # [15:25] <ezflashback> i want to edit the css of a modul on my page
  792. # [15:25] <ezflashback> i replaced the widget.js and edited the css paths inside
  793. # [15:25] <ezflashback> when i use the my custom widget.js the links escape
  794. # [15:25] <ezflashback> http://www.be-broke.com/ ... at the bottom of the page ... the twitter modul
  795. # [15:25] <ezflashback> do you have any idea, whats wrong in my customized widget.js?
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  799. # [15:39] <ezflashback> can anyone help me please?
  800. # [15:40] <Moo^_^> ezflashback: I fail to see how your question is related to html5?
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  802. # [15:40] <Moo^_^> ezflashback: maybe you should try some other forum
  803. # [15:40] <Moo^_^> ezflashback: I suggest stackoverflow.com :)
  804. # [15:42] <ezflashback> lol
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  806. # [15:42] <ezflashback> nobody want to help me
  807. # [15:42] <ezflashback> thats why i ask anyone who can help me
  808. # [15:43] <Cradam> ezflashback: nobody wants you
  809. # [15:43] <Cradam> :p
  810. # [15:46] <ezflashback> :(
  811. # [15:46] <ezflashback> pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease
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  813. # [15:47] <Cradam> ezflashback: try in #css #javascript or #web
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  815. # [15:47] <Trisox> iee jquery mootools everyting on there..
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  817. # [15:48] <Moo^_^> ezflashback: ask questions related to the channel topic
  818. # [15:48] <Moo^_^> ezflashback: I don't ask you how to fix my car :)
  819. # [15:48] <Trisox> well Moo^_^ buy gas
  820. # [15:48] * Parts: DoubleA (~Adium@65.211.27.190)
  821. # [15:48] <Trisox> and some tires ;) for starters
  822. # [15:48] <Moo^_^> Trisox: diesel
  823. # [15:48] <Moo^_^> this is EU
  824. # [15:49] <Trisox> gas = gas diesel and bezine
  825. # [15:49] <Trisox> maar goe
  826. # [15:49] <Moo^_^> ahhah
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  867. # [16:43] <newz2000> I did some work last night bringing over some of the nice styles of bootstrap to boilerplate mobile.
  868. # [16:44] <newz2000> Turned out not to be hard. It might make a nice add-on for people, so I'll share what I have later on today.
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  870. # [16:45] <newz2000> A lot of bootstrap isn't needed, it deals with grid layouts and that floating menu bar, which I can't see being too relevant on mobile.
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  972. # [19:20] <paul_irish> http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/94089
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  992. # [19:47] <Harph> hey there, I'm working with websockets and I figure out that I don't receive the Sec-WebSocket-Key1 and Sec-WebSocket-Key2 in the request header when I use firefox 6... this works fine on chrome and safari... any ideas about the problem?
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  1000. # [20:08] <sgrover> Canvas help for a non-graphic programmer? Creating an image that is larger than my screen size. I want to support zoom and window "slide" (drag window to move parts into view). Do I need to create a view port for this?
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  1002. # [20:09] <sgrover> And if so, any helpful links that define the details of creating a viewport? I've only found references to gaming engines so far...
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  1035. # [20:58] <newz2000> Do you know how many times I've thought a web page would be so much more awesome with a velociraptor? http://www.zurb.com/playground/jquery-raptorize?timed_launch=true
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  1037. # [21:01] <paul_irish> i just posted this or whatever http://paulirish.com/2011/tiered-adaptive-front-end-experiences/
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  1040. # [21:04] <newz2000> paul_irish: this fits in nicely with the conversation yesterday about not starting with Photoshop
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  1042. # [21:07] <danielfilho> paul_irish: I think you could link this on your post: http://dowebsitesneedtolookexactlythesameineverybrowser.com/
  1043. # [21:07] <danielfilho> :D
  1044. # [21:07] <taylorRichie> paul_irish: Great entry! Kudos
  1045. # [21:07] <newz2000> paul_irish: one thing that feels left out is when front end devs have to jump through incredibly hoops to make older browsers show the same content that newer browsers can get.
  1046. # [21:07] <danielfilho> indeed, great entry. just miss the link :D
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  1059. # [21:19] <paul_irish> danielfilho: i could, but it seemed too obvious. :p
  1060. # [21:19] <paul_irish> i'd rather be the justification for that post
  1061. # [21:20] <paul_irish> than expect one word to convince for me.
  1062. # [21:20] <paul_irish> s/that post/that site
  1063. # [21:20] <danielfilho> yup, just sayin' :P
  1064. # [21:21] <danielfilho> 'external article' hahaha
  1065. # [21:21] <sephr> Ms2ger: wtf why did you define DOMParser in a way that every non-pure XML MIME type is invalid?
  1066. # [21:21] <Ms2ger> Hmm?
  1067. # [21:21] <sephr> one sec
  1068. # [21:22] <sephr> Ms2ger: http://html5.org/specs/dom-parsing.html If contentType isn't text/xml, application/xml or application/xhtml+xml, raise a NOT_SUPPORTED_ERR exception and abort these steps.
  1069. # [21:22] <sephr> those aren't the only XML types
  1070. # [21:23] <sephr> also, text/html is easy to implement and should be explicitly supported in the spec (for example, I can implement it in ~20 lines https://gist.github.com/1129031)
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  1072. # [21:25] <sephr> Ms2ger: would you mind updating the spec to allow any +xml mime type and also text/html, with my https://gist.github.com/1129031 algorithm (I'll help you convert it to english) for text/html?
  1073. # [21:26] <Ms2ger> I would mind adding text/html, as no browser implements that
  1074. # [21:26] <sephr> most of the algorithm would be a copy and paste of the spec of document.implementation.createHTMLDocument
  1075. # [21:26] <sephr> Ms2ger: well then it could be optional
  1076. # [21:26] <Ms2ger> No
  1077. # [21:27] <sephr> what if there is a simple polyfill that adds support for it?
  1078. # [21:27] <sephr> DOMParser isn't called XMLParser
  1079. # [21:27] <sephr> it makes sense to allow any DOM type
  1080. # [21:27] <Ms2ger> This whole interface doesn't make a lot of sense
  1081. # [21:28] <Ms2ger> I'm speccing what's required for web compat, and we can look at adding new, well-designed features in the need arises
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  1084. # [21:30] <sephr> Ms2ger: no browsers supports <link type=icon sizes>, and ignore that part of the spec and actually support apple's proprietary version that's limited to a 1:1 aspect ratio, so by that reasoning shouldn't you remove that too?
  1085. # [21:30] <sephr> s/and/and they/
  1086. # [21:30] <Ms2ger> Not my spec
  1087. # [21:30] <sephr> I'm just trying to argue that it's an obvious feature
  1088. # [21:30] <sephr> that people can already patch in
  1089. # [21:31] <Ms2ger> I'm trying to argue that adding stuff to DOMParser is a horrible API
  1090. # [21:31] <Ms2ger> And if we want to add new features, we can do better than that
  1091. # [21:31] <sephr> ok I agree
  1092. # [21:31] <sephr> it doesn't even support Blobs :P
  1093. # [21:32] <sephr> Ms2ger: though you should at least fix the wording of the content type step to allow "any XML-based MIME type"
  1094. # [21:32] <Ms2ger> Why?
  1095. # [21:32] <Ms2ger> Only webkit supports that
  1096. # [21:32] <sephr> webkit doesn't support DOMParser.parse(Blob)
  1097. # [21:32] <sephr> what do you mean?
  1098. # [21:33] <Ms2ger> Non-webkit browsers only support these three mime types
  1099. # [21:33] <sephr> oh well that's more of a horrible bug
  1100. # [21:33] <sephr> nobody even tries to parse foo/bar+xml
  1101. # [21:34] <sephr> so it won't break anything if you fix the bug
  1102. # [21:34] <sephr> nobody will try to parse +xml until the bug is fixed anyways
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  1118. # [22:13] <Moo^_^> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7274162/html5-canvas-todataurl-breaking-ssl-connection
  1119. # [22:14] <Moo^_^> I am interested in knowing also
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  1147. # [23:07] <nlogax> how do i get rid of the default (+) cursor when dragging stuff? other than e.dataTransfer.dropEffect = "none"
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  1149. # [23:08] <nlogax> (it defaults to a green (+) thingie on os x, i want to use the default cursor as the err... default)
  1150. # [23:08] <nlogax> i would have guessed `cursor: default` but no
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  1154. # [23:12] <Cradam> nlogax: the browser doesnt control that action
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  1157. # [23:13] <nlogax> Cradam: well, it can
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  1159. # [23:13] <nlogax> and since it doesn't default to anything nice/consistent with other apps, i'd like to
  1160. # [23:14] <Cradam> #css
  1161. # [23:14] <nlogax> d&d is css now?
  1162. # [23:14] <MichaelBehan> dungeons and dragons?
  1163. # [23:14] <Cradam> lol
  1164. # [23:14] <CoverSlide> I think it's d20
  1165. # [23:14] <nlogax> yeah, that
  1166. # [23:14] <Cradam> d20?
  1167. # [23:15] <CoverSlide> 20-sided die
  1168. # [23:15] <CoverSlide> instead of 3 6-sided die
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  1170. # [23:15] <CoverSlide> in previous versions
  1171. # [23:15] <Cradam> ahh what has that got to do with #css
  1172. # [23:15] <CoverSlide> I don't know, ask him
  1173. # [23:15] <nlogax> about as much as drag&drop
  1174. # [23:16] <Cradam> oh im just saying you can get more info in the cursor options in there
  1175. # [23:16] <Cradam> *on
  1176. # [23:16] <nlogax> well that's the thing, cursor doesn't do anything in this case
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  1179. # [23:16] <nlogax> so i'm asking here, where people might be using this html5 stuff :)
  1180. # [23:17] <daleharvey> paul_irish: whats http://twitter.com/#!/maboa/status/109219456294723584 about?
  1181. # [23:17] <socialhapy> ★ Tweet from html5: RT @rwaldron: I just stood up for the first time in hours, good news though: jQuery 1.7 looks like it will support HTML5. thanks @paul_i ... ★ http://bit.ly/nL3yWp
  1182. # [23:17] <paul_irish> html5 elems
  1183. # [23:17] <paul_irish> so if you ajax in <nav>/<article> etc... it will work
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  1185. # [23:18] <daleharvey> the ie shim?
  1186. # [23:19] <paul_irish> well.. more specifically its essentially innerShiv baked in
  1187. # [23:19] <paul_irish> the html5shiv is still required, jquery wont tackle that.
  1188. # [23:20] <daleharvey> ah k, cool cheers
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  1190. # [23:20] <daleharvey> someone told me "jquery 1.7 is going to support html5" and pointed to that tweet
  1191. # [23:20] <paul_irish> ya
  1192. # [23:20] <paul_irish> whatever that would mean....
  1193. # [23:21] <daleharvey> heh yeh
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The end :)