/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-11-17 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Nov 17 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
  3. # [00:00] <tw2113> Thasmo
  4. # [00:00] <tw2113> er thatryan
  5. # [00:00] <Thasmo> haha you again :D
  6. # [00:00] <tw2113> hi to both
  7. # [00:00] <Thasmo> heh ;)
  8. # [00:00] <Thasmo> aloha
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  11. # [00:03] <thatryan> heyo
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  14. # [00:15] <danielfilho> paul_irish: any idea of implementing tab-size on webkit? know something?
  15. # [00:15] <danielfilho> just wanted to use it on a presentation, but isn't implemented on webkit :(
  16. # [00:16] <paul_irish> i saw the ticket on bugs.webkit.org recently
  17. # [00:16] <paul_irish> you should look there :)
  18. # [00:16] <danielfilho> oh, that's the url I was looking for
  19. # [00:16] <danielfilho> thanks :)
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  43. # [00:55] <JonathanNeal> ahoy
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  64. # [01:19] <supsup> question about html5 boilerplate: I'm stuck using dreamweaver templates for a site. html5 boiler template appears to not like the IE conditionals at the top of the boilerplate. It inserts the Template comment before the doctype throwing stuff into quirks mode. Has anyone ran into this problem / found a solution?
  65. # [01:20] <supsup> could i move the IE conditionals to be the Body tag instead of the html tag?
  66. # [01:23] <supsup> here is example of what is happening:
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  68. # [01:23] <supsup> http://jsfiddle.net/DHyV5/
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  72. # [01:25] <xonecas> can someone explain to me the purpose of this line of javascript? fnTest = /xyz/.test(function () {xyz}) ? /\bsupr\b/ : /.*/;
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  80. # [01:36] <supsup> xonecas: http://jsfiddle.net/vRKt2/ console.log is better tho
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  83. # [01:36] <supsup> eval /xyz/.test(function () {xyz}) ? /\bsupr\b/ : /.*/;
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  112. # [02:33] <Pomax> does HTML5 come with a way to do autosuggest boxes for input fields?
  113. # [02:33] <Pomax> or is it still a matter of stacking some divs and making it look like normal text
  114. # [02:40] <Pomax> <datalist> doesn't seem to do much in Chrome =(
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  116. # [02:45] <Jon47> yeah it needs work in basically every browser, last i checked
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  184. # [05:24] <BrianBlakely> divya: Hi div, how goes it?
  185. # [05:24] <divya> hi BrianBlakely its good! just back from W3Conf
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  187. # [05:24] <BrianBlakely> Seattle, right?
  188. # [05:25] <divya> BrianBlakely: yep!
  189. # [05:25] <divya> well redmond more like
  190. # [05:25] <BrianBlakely> Oh!
  191. # [05:25] <BrianBlakely> Did you move to Europe or something?
  192. # [05:25] <tw2113> redmond WA
  193. # [05:25] <tw2113> home of the Microsoft
  194. # [05:25] <BrianBlakely> I saw many a post on G+ from you about that land
  195. # [05:26] <divya> BrianBlakely: haha no I was in Oslo/Amsterdam for Opera work/Fronteers respectively
  196. # [05:26] <divya> then vacation and now back
  197. # [05:26] <tw2113> what's a vacation?
  198. # [05:26] <BrianBlakely> Ooooh, kk, well welcome back
  199. # [05:27] <divya> thanks BrianBlakely! how goes you?
  200. # [05:28] <BrianBlakely> Alright, I'm trying to get out of marketing, but haven't found an ideal match yet
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  203. # [05:28] <divya> ah
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  205. # [05:29] <BrianBlakely> Writing a little app for Guinness right now. A pub finder. It's sad that they won't just replace their Obj-C app with it.
  206. # [05:30] <divya> ooo nice!
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  208. # [05:32] <BrianBlakely> divya: Are you still working on that thing pirish mentioned? Something related to caniuse?
  209. # [05:32] <divya> ya we are. hope to get that out by end of the year
  210. # [05:32] <divya> ?g github nimbupani gfs
  211. # [05:32] <bot-t> divya, nimbupani's Profile - GitHub - https://github.com/nimbupani
  212. # [05:32] <divya> …
  213. # [05:32] <divya> okay its in that page
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  216. # [05:35] <BrianBlakely> divya: Cooool. If you want another set of hands - an errand boy, if you will - you must only make the call
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  220. # [05:36] <divya> BrianBlakely: we are looking for some hands actually
  221. # [05:36] <divya> what we need is a server-side or client-side component that will parse the data from a yaml or json file
  222. # [05:37] <divya> and then render it on screen
  223. # [05:37] <divya> currently it is all in that index.html and static
  224. # [05:37] <divya> but clearly that is not scalable
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  227. # [05:39] <BrianBlakely> divya: Ah, so you want to feed it from a kind of flat-file database
  228. # [05:40] <divya> yep!
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  231. # [05:41] <BrianBlakely> Cool, then plan for me to have a pullreq from me by the end of this weekend
  232. # [05:42] <divya> nice!!
  233. # [05:42] <divya> that would be awesome BrianBlakely
  234. # [05:42] <divya> but note that we would prefer node
  235. # [05:43] <divya> or something accessible
  236. # [05:43] <divya> and available on most machines
  237. # [05:43] <divya> or if client side maybe backbone based?
  238. # [05:43] <divya> client side i dont have much constraint
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  240. # [05:43] <divya> just server-side we can potentially have several people accessing.
  241. # [05:43] <divya> so it would be neat to have a solution that works with minimal effort
  242. # [05:45] <BrianBlakely> o rly, I was going to do it client-side in pure JS (maybe enhanced with ARIA), but I agree a server-end method would make it SEO friendly, which would be important for a resource
  243. # [05:48] <BrianBlakely> divya: BTW, I'm giving a demo of WebRTC tomorrow. Ericsson made it way easier than it used to me, but it's still ridiculous. You need Ubuntu 11.04 specifically, for starters. :P
  244. # [05:48] <divya> BrianBlakely: you could probably write that for node also
  245. # [05:48] <divya> omg :/
  246. # [05:48] <divya> (the JS)
  247. # [05:48] <BrianBlakely> divya: I think you're right
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  249. # [05:49] <BrianBlakely> Any murmurs on when this might hit an Opera beta, just so I can give my talkees an idea?
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  251. # [05:49] <BrianBlakely> Last time we spoke about it, you seemed confident that the big O would be on that train early-ish
  252. # [05:50] <divya> BrianBlakely: we are but i dont think its going to be in 12 for sure.
  253. # [05:50] <divya> we also have had work cut out getting webGL work in Mobile etc so this might have to take a while
  254. # [05:51] <BrianBlakely> H2 2012 sound right?
  255. # [05:51] <BrianBlakely> Summer mayhaps?
  256. # [05:51] <divya> hahaa it could be most likely next year but I cant say explictly when
  257. # [05:52] <divya> honestly i dont know
  258. # [05:52] <divya> we have roadmaps
  259. # [05:52] <divya> but some features take a lot of time and things get delayed
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  261. # [05:52] <divya> so even if I do say a number the practical appearance of said feature might be off the mark
  262. # [05:56] <BrianBlakely> divya: Right, I knew I was grasping at straws. I'll make something up about 2012 without putting O on the spot…
  263. # [05:56] <divya> thanks BrianBlakely!!
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  325. # [08:06] <phrearch> hello
  326. # [08:07] <phrearch> i wonder if the following situation can be done in a manifest file. right now im setting up a websocket connection in a bootstrapping http call which includes the default css/html/js to get started with. would it be possible to cache this information, so the client doesnt have to make the http call each time?
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  337. # [08:18] <jetienne> what is the status of fullscreen API on opera ?
  338. # [08:19] <OzDave_imac> would that be listed at www.caniuse.com ?
  339. # [08:19] <OzDave_imac> guess not yet
  340. # [08:26] <jetienne> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/fullscreen/raw-file/tip/Overview.html the spec is edited by an opera member, so i guess they know about it :)
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  342. # [08:27] <jetienne> it is more a matter of priority and has it been already coded or not
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  391. # [09:44] <phrearch> hello
  392. # [09:45] <phrearch> i wonder if its possible to store images on the client from custom templates, where you dont know the image names at forehand (like when putting it in a manifest file)
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  410. # [10:14] <Moo_O> phrearch: you can stick them into local storage
  411. # [10:15] <Moo_O> it has upper limit for storage size
  412. # [10:15] <Moo_O> 5 MB I think
  413. # [10:15] <phrearch> Moo_O: aha, like with a blob in sqlite?
  414. # [10:15] <Moo_O> yes
  415. # [10:15] <Moo_O> I don't know details
  416. # [10:15] <Moo_O> but big boys tell it's possible somehow
  417. # [10:15] <phrearch> cool
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  419. # [10:16] <phrearch> it may be a bit difficult to prevent the parsed html to get the images from the server though
  420. # [10:16] <phrearch> wonder if there is an event for that
  421. # [10:16] <phrearch> like, onRetrieveImage or something
  422. # [10:17] <phrearch> or instead of using img tags, just use something like <div data-href='/path/to/img.png/'/> and then replace with javascript
  423. # [10:17] <T-Co> phrearch, You can save images to localstorage by saving the base64 encoded and then using data uris to inject the data directly
  424. # [10:18] <T-Co> phrearch, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_URI_scheme
  425. # [10:18] <T-Co> phrearch, It takes 33% more space, though
  426. # [10:18] <phrearch> T-Co: thanks, ill read up about the details of that
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  428. # [10:18] <phrearch> yea, isnt it possible to keep binary data yet?
  429. # [10:18] <phrearch> i read somewhere about typed array support or something
  430. # [10:18] <T-Co> phrearch, There is also cache manifest: http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/offline.html
  431. # [10:19] <phrearch> yea, but i dont know in front what images need to be cached
  432. # [10:19] <T-Co> Ah
  433. # [10:19] <phrearch> basically all images that are rendered in the template
  434. # [10:19] <phrearch> local storage is probably the best option then
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  436. # [10:20] <T-Co> I think so
  437. # [10:20] <T-Co> Also you might want to keep in mind that:
  438. # [10:20] <T-Co> http://www.sencha.com/forum/showthread.php?130143-HTML5-LocalStorage-not-persistent-on-iOS-after-Power-Off
  439. # [10:21] <phrearch> thanks, but thats not a problem
  440. # [10:21] <T-Co> Ok
  441. # [10:21] <phrearch> its for tv narrowcasting
  442. # [10:21] <phrearch> tvs should be on all the time, and have contact to the server.
  443. # [10:21] <phrearch> its just for when the server breaks down
  444. # [10:22] <T-Co> ah
  445. # [10:22] <T-Co> I was goign to dig you an article about local storage sizes across browsers, but I guess that's irrelevant as well :)
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  447. # [10:22] <T-Co> 5Mb is the spec
  448. # [10:22] <T-Co> Usually browser will ask after that if you want to increase the amount
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  450. # [10:23] <phrearch> that should be enough, although those images can get pretty big
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  452. # [10:23] <T-Co> phrearch, Do you know what the browser is based on?
  453. # [10:24] <phrearch> yea, it will be chrome based
  454. # [10:24] <phrearch> it needs to support websockets
  455. # [10:24] <T-Co> So Webkit/Chromium based
  456. # [10:24] <phrearch> yup
  457. # [10:24] <T-Co> I think you should be fine with Data URI scheme then
  458. # [10:24] <T-Co> Seems that's your best option
  459. # [10:25] <phrearch> cool, will give that a try. hope to be able to avoid base64 but should be fine
  460. # [10:27] <phrearch> working on a websocket api for django currently, https://github.com/phrearch/Django-HRM
  461. # [10:27] <phrearch> still a bit buggy, but would be nice to have a simple way of using websockets in a cms
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  473. # [10:50] <maena> Hi, what are the different types of audio that is normal to use with the audio tag?
  474. # [10:51] <maena> I know of ogg, mpeg and wav
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  481. # [11:00] <Moo_O> maena: AAC, Vorbis and MP3
  482. # [11:00] <Moo_O> I think aac (mpeg 4 audio) and Vorbis cover 100% browsers
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  486. # [11:04] <maena> is there any way to detect what kind of type a file is?
  487. # [11:05] <maena> I'm working with replacing a flash audio player, and the file type can be of any kind really
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  504. # [11:28] <rodfersou> morning Velmont
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  506. # [11:29] <rodfersou> did you remember to ask your friend from opera about hidden features of offline storage?
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  514. # [11:33] <shwetank> what hidden feature?
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  516. # [11:33] <shwetank> are you talking about appcache or local storage?
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  525. # [11:57] <Velmont> shwetank: localStorage.
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  528. # [11:59] <Velmont> rodfersou: He's busy coding right now, but I'll ask soonish. Although I doubt there are. We follow specs quite closely and rather change the spec if we're unhappy with it before we implement other stuff :-)
  529. # [11:59] <shwetank> im also from opera, btw .... if you have any specific question in mind, i can look it up
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  531. # [12:01] <Velmont> shwetank: Hehe, it's just getting (by user js) how much space you're using. I wrote this pseudoish code for it: totbytes=0; for (var i=0; i<storage.length; i++) { totbytes += storage.getItem(storage.getKey(i)).length } -- but wanted to check if there was a more effective way.
  532. # [12:01] <Velmont> rodfersou wanted to show a "you're using this much space" meter etc. -- So he probably would want to get how much space he has available as well (not just guess 5MB as is suggested by the spec).
  533. # [12:02] <Velmont> I meant to look more into it, -- but I have much to do in other places right now ;-)
  534. # [12:02] <Velmont> s/user js/author js/ is prolly a bit more correct.
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  539. # [12:14] <maena> is there a way to find out what type of audio a file is?
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  541. # [12:16] <Velmont> rodfersou: (key.length + getItem(key).length) * 2 == amout of data stored. -- So my original line was incorrect, under calculated quite a bit.
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  543. # [12:17] <rodfersou> Velmont: sorry, I was at a meeting.. now I'm back
  544. # [12:20] <rodfersou> Velmont: thank you very much for your help! I'm taking notes :)
  545. # [12:22] <rodfersou> maena: well.. to embed an audio into html5 tag you need to put the codec there... so you can know what type of audio file it is...
  546. # [12:23] <maena> rodfersou: yeah but I need to find out what codec it is before I set it as a type for <audio>
  547. # [12:23] <rodfersou> maena: oh, I got it now.. sorry
  548. # [12:24] <rodfersou> shwetank: I'm looking around about off-line webpages and off-line storage tecnologies for my final at my post graduation
  549. # [12:25] <shwetank> cool. I wrote a few articles on dev.opera.com on local/session storage, appcache and even the now defunct websql
  550. # [12:27] <rodfersou> nice
  551. # [12:27] <rodfersou> shwetank: and about indexded db ?
  552. # [12:27] <shwetank> here are my articles in case you're interested http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/web-storage/ , http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/offline-applications-html5-appcache/ and http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/taking-your-web-apps-offline-web-storage-appcache-websql/
  553. # [12:27] <shwetank> Opera does not support indexdb so far
  554. # [12:27] <rodfersou> fine
  555. # [12:28] <rodfersou> shwetank: thank you very much for your help
  556. # [12:28] <shwetank> no probs
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  562. # [12:39] <rodfersou> maena: I think the easiest way is to open the file into your favorite player (I opened one file with VLC and check the information of the file)
  563. # [12:39] <maena> rodfersou: can't do that, it has to be done within the site (javascript)
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  566. # [12:40] <maena> rodfersou: the whole point is that I am making an audio player for a site, and it has to be able to play the content it shuvs in it
  567. # [12:40] <maena> rodfersou: thats where the detecting comes in, I have to know what type to set the <audio> tag to
  568. # [12:40] <rodfersou> maena: I thought there was a way to check it with the tagdata information of the file.. but didn't find the glue... take a look at this chapter of dive into python book.. maybe you can do it... http://www.diveintopython.net/file_handling/file_objects.html
  569. # [12:42] <rodfersou> maena: I don't know if the codec information is into another place of the file.. but the first 128 bits you can take some information
  570. # [12:42] <maena> rodfersou: thanks, I'll take a look at that
  571. # [12:42] <rodfersou> ops.. it was the last 128 bits
  572. # [12:42] <rodfersou> :)
  573. # [12:43] <rodfersou> maena: you are welcome
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  576. # [12:50] <rodfersou> maena: maybe it is easier if you use some script to convert the files with ffmpeg or mencode tools to the formats you want...
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  578. # [12:50] <rodfersou> maena: because some browsers will need one codec, and another browsers need another codec
  579. # [12:50] <maena> rodfersou: I am only allowed to use js, html and css
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  581. # [12:52] <rodfersou> maena: I think you'll have some problems so.. maybe you'll need to ask in the upload time for the file ready into some codec...
  582. # [12:52] <rodfersou> and the user convert it into the codecs you need before upload
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  584. # [12:53] <rodfersou> I don't know if there is a way to convert the file with just javascript
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  586. # [12:59] <Velmont> rodfersou: http://my.opera.com/xErath/blog/opera-is-web-store << a bash script that shows operas localstorage, for debugging and poking around et al :-)
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  600. # [13:09] <rodfersou> Velmont: nice :)
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  682. # [15:31] <socket> hey, setting the height of a <header> element. is it done using CSS? height: 50px; doesnt seem to work
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  684. # [15:31] <divya> if you are using IE then you need modernizr or the html5shim
  685. # [15:31] <divya> oh also set display: block
  686. # [15:33] <socket> that might cause problems, changing the display
  687. # [15:34] <socket> or, you're not talking to me....
  688. # [15:34] <miketaylr> danielfilho: hey, is that vlc stream working for you?
  689. # [15:35] <divya> socket: i am talking to you
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  720. # [16:25] <Conexion> Hmm. So I have a webapp that I'm programming. In it, it manipulates background-size and background-position with CSS transitions to do smooth scaling/panning animations - This works great on most Android devices and newer (3GS+) iPhones. It is rather laggy on iPads and older iPhones/iPod Touches
  721. # [16:26] <Conexion> Any ideas on what might speed this up?
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  723. # [16:26] <divya> using -webkit-transform: translate3d(0, 0, 0); should
  724. # [16:28] * theresa_away is now known as theresaanna
  725. # [16:28] <Conexion> That's what I thought, but my biggest worries are: 1) Managing it between difference browsers 2) Will the background image scale with the scaled div?
  726. # [16:29] <Conexion> I guess I could just use Modernizr
  727. # [16:29] <Conexion> Hmm
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  731. # [16:33] <divya> Conexion: how does that affect any browser that is not webkit based?
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  733. # [16:35] <Conexion> Well, lets say I want to run it in a mobile phone that doesn't support translate3d. It would be nice to have background-position / background-size as a fall-back
  734. # [16:36] <divya> but -webkit-translate3d trick only works for webkit
  735. # [16:36] <divya> and no webkit mobile phone is shipped without support for 3d afaik
  736. # [16:36] <divya> err webkit mobile phone browser
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  738. # [16:37] <Conexion> I guess I'm worried mainly about people using Opera
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  740. # [16:38] <divya> Conexion: well then you could use modernizr detects for that
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  742. # [16:39] <Moo_O> divya: nokia series 60
  743. # [16:39] <supsup> question about html5 boilerplate: I'm stuck using dreamweaver templates for a site. html5 boiler template appears to not like the IE conditionals at the top of the boilerplate. It inserts the Template comment before the doctype throwing stuff into quirks mode. Has anyone ran into this problem / found a solution?
  744. # [16:39] <supsup> could i move the IE conditionals to be the Body tag instead of the html tag?
  745. # [16:39] <supsup> http://jsfiddle.net/DHyV5/
  746. # [16:39] <divya> supsup: u can
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  748. # [16:39] <divya> Moo_O: haha ://
  749. # [16:40] <divya> but does it support transitions and not translate3d?
  750. # [16:40] <Conexion> Hah, I'm not worried about phones that don't at least support Canvas - They're out of luck
  751. # [16:40] <supsup> divya cool thanks.
  752. # [16:40] <Conexion> Also we're only supporting touch devices
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  760. # [16:58] <Conexion> By the way, I appreciate your article on the pointless pursuit of semantic value divya, hopefully you haven't gotten too much crap from it!
  761. # [16:58] <divya> Conexion: :))
  762. # [16:58] <divya> thanks.
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  784. # [17:21] <xonecas> divya: o/ link for that article of yours?
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  786. # [17:21] <divya> ?g smashingmagazine our pointless pursuit of semantic value @ xonecas
  787. # [17:21] <bot-t> xonecas, Our Pointless Pursuit Of Semantic Value - Smashing Coding - http://coding.smashingmagazine.com/2011/11/11/our-pointless-pursuit-of-semantic-value/
  788. # [17:21] <divya> that :))
  789. # [17:21] <xonecas> much appreciated thank you!
  790. # [17:22] <xonecas> Does anyone know when will the outcome of yesterdays sopa hearing will be made public?
  791. # [17:22] <divya> xonecas: you will be sure to hear it on twitter :P
  792. # [17:22] <jarek> how can I escape all HTML-reserved strings in text?
  793. # [17:23] <jarek> e.g. if the text contains '<!--' string then it will render only partially when inserted into HTML page
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  798. # [17:25] <xonecas> jarek not sure I understand, but I think you need to write up some regex's to test for your cases.
  799. # [17:25] <divya> jarek: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/XUL_School/DOM_Building_and_HTML_Insertion
  800. # [17:27] <jarek> divya: thanks
  801. # [17:28] <jarek> divya: btw, I was watching your presentation on CSS3 layouts yesterday
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  803. # [17:28] <jarek> divya: why do you think that flexbox should not be used already?
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  805. # [17:28] <divya> jarek: as i mentioned the spec has changed
  806. # [17:28] <jarek> it seems to be supported by all latest versions of all browsers
  807. # [17:28] <divya> so browsers are likely to drop support for old flexbox
  808. # [17:28] <jarek> divya: IE10 will support flexbox as defined in old spec
  809. # [17:29] <divya> which means your content will look like garbage when they do.
  810. # [17:29] <divya> unless you did some neat progressive enhancements
  811. # [17:29] <divya> which is great
  812. # [17:29] <jarek> divya: also, afair WebKit will keep supporting the old spec even after support for new one is added
  813. # [17:30] <divya> jarek: they will for a while, not for long
  814. # [17:30] <jarek> this was also the case with border-radius
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  816. # [17:31] <divya> but border-radius does not make content unreadable
  817. # [17:31] <divya> this does.
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  845. # [18:01] <danielfilho> miketaylr: sorry, I've left online here all the time (at work). It wasn't in the beginning, but after a few minutes, it started working. was giving a 502
  846. # [18:02] <miketaylr> heh, no worries
  847. # [18:02] <miketaylr> i got distracted and closed it anyways :P
  848. # [18:03] <danielfilho> clever decision :)
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  852. # [18:05] <JonathanNeal> hiya
  853. # [18:06] <supsup> hey divya i tried to move the IE conditionals to the body tag but then dreamweaver says the body tag is missing opening tag
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  855. # [18:07] <divya> supsup: there is a fix for that in this post
  856. # [18:07] <divya> ?g paul irish css conditional hacks
  857. # [18:07] <bot-t> divya, Conditional stylesheets vs CSS hacks? Answer: Neither! « Paul Irish - http://paulirish.com/2008/conditional-stylesheets-vs-css-hacks-answer-neither/
  858. # [18:07] <supsup> is it !IE?
  859. # [18:07] <supsup> yah i tried that fix in the top for html was wondering
  860. # [18:07] <divya> ideally the conditionals should be dreamweaver proof
  861. # [18:07] <divya> but not sure why its not being so for you.
  862. # [18:07] <supsup> ok i think i'll do that to body tag
  863. # [18:08] <divya> sadly i have no dreamweaver to test
  864. # [18:08] <supsup> its across man machines ~~
  865. # [18:08] <supsup> many*
  866. # [18:08] <supsup> the problem is global it appears to me
  867. # [18:08] <supsup> only when your using Templates tho
  868. # [18:08] <supsup> because of the way dreamweaver adds its own special comments
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  870. # [18:09] <xonecas> supsup: dreamweaver must have preferences to avoid such things
  871. # [18:09] <divya> :((
  872. # [18:09] <jarek> supsup: Dreamweaver is almost as uncool as Frontpage
  873. # [18:10] <divya> jarek: it doesnt matter
  874. # [18:10] <divya> anyway supsup would be very grateful if you find a solution and file it on github h5bp repo
  875. # [18:10] <divya> http://git.io/h5bp
  876. # [18:10] <supsup> jarek i'd use vim if i could but client won't let me they use CPS...for logging (worst logging/backup system i've ever seen )
  877. # [18:11] <JonathanNeal> what's the issue?
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  880. # [18:12] <supsup> divya: using Pauls idea: is this OK? having the comment in a comment like this?
  881. # [18:12] <supsup> http://jsfiddle.net/5yrrz/
  882. # [18:13] <divya> sounds good to me
  883. # [18:13] <xonecas> supsup: tell your bosses that vim is free and open source and that they can track you with git = happy devs :-)
  884. # [18:13] <supsup> that appears to work, and work in Dreamweaver, could also just move the idea down to the body
  885. # [18:13] <JonathanNeal> what's the issue?
  886. # [18:13] <supsup> xonecas already tried ~~
  887. # [18:13] <divya> supsup: is that not h5bp default?
  888. # [18:14] <xonecas> :-(
  889. # [18:14] <supsup> no default does not have the !IE
  890. # [18:14] <supsup> it uses only the gt IE8 + comment hack
  891. # [18:14] <divya> ah
  892. # [18:15] <divya> kk
  893. # [18:15] <supsup> the issue is: if you the html IE conditionals to DW CS5 / CS3 templates
  894. # [18:15] <supsup> it adds it's opening dreamweaver comment
  895. # [18:15] <supsup> above the doctype
  896. # [18:15] <divya> ugh
  897. # [18:15] <divya> okay
  898. # [18:15] <supsup> which throws IE into quirks mode
  899. # [18:15] <divya> i wish someone in dreamweaver is here to fix it for us :/
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  901. # [18:16] <supsup> so anyway using the above jsfiddle appears to work but it's ugly
  902. # [18:16] <supsup> so i think instead i'll move the same idea to the body tag
  903. # [18:16] <supsup> instead
  904. # [18:16] <JonathanNeal> oh boy
  905. # [18:16] <divya> sure. we put it in html so that body is free for classes from php or any other custom classes, ids you would want to add
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  907. # [18:17] <JonathanNeal> so <!-- dreamweaver comment --><!doctype html> ?
  908. # [18:17] <supsup> yes
  909. # [18:17] <supsup> exactly
  910. # [18:17] <supsup> it is suppose to add that comment in between the doctype and the opening html tag
  911. # [18:18] <supsup> but since the ie conditional re there it gets confused
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  914. # [18:18] <supsup> so just throws it before doctype i guess as a backup plan
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  916. # [18:18] <JonathanNeal> supsup: what happens if you put the !IE up top?
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  918. # [18:19] <JonathanNeal> instead of at the bottom
  919. # [18:19] <supsup> it does what i said in jsfiddle above
  920. # [18:19] <supsup> http://jsfiddle.net/5yrrz/
  921. # [18:19] <supsup> which appears to work
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  923. # [18:19] <supsup> just worried about the comments in comments
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  925. # [18:20] <JonathanNeal> yea
  926. # [18:20] <JonathanNeal> you should be good, have you tested this in old ie?
  927. # [18:20] <JonathanNeal> i have old ie if you don't
  928. # [18:20] <supsup> yah
  929. # [18:20] <supsup> it appears to work
  930. # [18:21] <JonathanNeal> You're good then!
  931. # [18:21] <supsup> i was wrong earlier i said it should add the Dreamweaver comment in between doctype and html tag...it's actually goes AFTEr the html tag which is what it is doing in my example
  932. # [18:21] <JonathanNeal> I thought you said it was supposed to put that comment above <html> though.
  933. # [18:21] <supsup> yah cool i'll log to github
  934. # [18:21] <JonathanNeal> Ah, good.
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  936. # [18:21] <JonathanNeal> Are you using html5?
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  938. # [18:22] <supsup> not currently, we were mostly just using this idea of targeting IEs
  939. # [18:22] <supsup> via global class
  940. # [18:22] <supsup> instead of seperate stylesheets
  941. # [18:22] <JonathanNeal> okay, because you could use js to give <html> all those classnames.
  942. # [18:22] <JonathanNeal> because in old ie, you have to use js to support html5 elements, anyway.
  943. # [18:22] <supsup> not accessible then tho~~
  944. # [18:22] <supsup> ooo
  945. # [18:22] <supsup> gotcha
  946. # [18:23] <supsup> will keep that in mind
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  950. # [18:26] <JonathanNeal> paul_irish, you around? I think that would be useful to note. IE conditionals comments are great in many scenarios, however, if the page uses IE's unsupported HTML5 elements then javascript is already a requirement and could then be used to do the work of the conditionals.
  951. # [18:27] <JonathanNeal> Also paul_irish, http://music.thewikies.com/jonneal/modernizr !
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  953. # [18:29] <drublic> JonathanNeal: :D Awesome!!!
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  955. # [18:30] <drublic> JonathanNeal: you're idea with adding classes to the html-tag with JS as IE needs a shim anyway sounds great
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  958. # [18:31] <JonathanNeal> well, ie8 is having issues with the shim in high security mode anyway, guess i can look into both
  959. # [18:31] * donald_cook is now known as _dc_
  960. # [18:31] <drublic> and if for instance modernizr already adds some feature-classes an "oldIE" and "lt-ie8" is not bad
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  962. # [18:32] <drublic> i like the idea :)
  963. # [18:32] <JonathanNeal> cool.
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  965. # [18:33] <drublic> you think it could be sth. for h5bp?
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  967. # [18:33] <divya> we did have modernizr as a dependency
  968. # [18:33] <divya> at one point
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  971. # [18:34] <divya> but we are moving away from it afaik.
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  973. # [18:34] <divya> or not doing too much dependencies
  974. # [18:34] <JonathanNeal> modernizr as a dependency for what?
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  976. # [18:35] <drublic> JonathanNeal: Modernizr has the HTML5 Shim for oldIE
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  978. # [18:36] <remysharp> JonathanNeal: shall we get your new html5shiv uploaded? (non-htc though - will have to remain with onbeforeprint to avoid deps)
  979. # [18:36] <remysharp> JonathanNeal: hi by the way ;-)
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  983. # [18:37] <JonathanNeal> hi remysharp :) yea it's kimpossible to do the htc locally :(
  984. # [18:37] <JonathanNeal> so you'd have to stick with the non-htc method.
  985. # [18:37] <remysharp> but the version you had was a damn sight lighter - no?
  986. # [18:37] <JonathanNeal> what exactly is the improvement then if we cut the htc part?
  987. # [18:37] <remysharp> on the print side
  988. # [18:37] <remysharp> also ships with the style sheet plug
  989. # [18:38] <JonathanNeal> that's right
  990. # [18:38] <remysharp> well - the style sheet plug and the light print support
  991. # [18:38] <remysharp> code is much smaller iirc
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  998. # [18:41] <divya> JonathanNeal: for h5bp
  999. # [18:42] <cashshadow> divya: really? what is the alternative?
  1000. # [18:42] <JonathanNeal> remysharp: okay, well, i have to step out on a personal matter for a few hours. my wallet was stolen and i have to go down to the dmv to get a new license, so i'll be back later to work on this.
  1001. # [18:42] <remysharp> oh crap
  1002. # [18:42] <divya> cashshadow: we *are* using modernizr. not gonna remove it EVER
  1003. # [18:42] <divya> just dont want other features to depend on it afaict
  1004. # [18:42] <divya> people dont like that
  1005. # [18:43] <remysharp> sure - I'm using irccloud so I should stay logged in - or kick me in the head on twitter
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  1009. # [18:45] <jarek> is the CSS inspector from FireFox aurora implemented in HTML/JS?
  1010. # [18:46] <jarek> I wonder how they have implemented the highlight effect when you inspect elements, it doesn't seem to be doable with CSS
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  1012. # [18:47] <jarek> I mean this: http://blog.mozilla.com/devtools/files/2011/11/Highlighter.png
  1013. # [18:48] <jarek> the whole page is grayed out except the selected element
  1014. # [18:48] <jarek> what would be the easiest way to implement such feature?
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  1016. # [18:49] <jarek> I was thinking about creating an SVG overlay and resizing it with JS, but that's a lot of work :/
  1017. # [18:50] <xonecas> jarek why not css?
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  1020. # [18:51] <Mikeumus_> Hey gang, is there a dedicated <canvas> IRC channel by any chance or are those questions cool here too?
  1021. # [18:51] <Jon47> they are cool here, there might be a better channel tho
  1022. # [18:51] <xonecas> you can give position to the highlighted element and then a 50% opacity overlay on the whole page, then use the z-index to place the highlighted element atop the overlay
  1023. # [18:52] <xonecas> Mikeumus_: the guys over at the three.js channel are awesome with canvas
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  1025. # [18:52] <jarek> xonecas: because CSS allows for styling only elements that can be targeted with selector
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  1031. # [18:53] <xonecas> jarek: example of an element that can't be targeted by a selector?
  1032. # [18:54] <jarek> xonecas: sorry, I should rather say "because CSS alows for styling areas that belong to elements"
  1033. # [18:55] <xonecas> jarek: i still don't see why it wouldn't work, how is that impeding me?
  1034. # [18:55] <jarek> xonecas: http://blog.mozilla.com/devtools/files/2011/11/Highlighter.png
  1035. # [18:56] <jarek> xonecas: ^ I have to set gray background for area that does not belong to selected element
  1036. # [18:56] <jarek> xonecas: how would you do that with CSS?
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  1040. # [18:57] <xonecas> It won't be a pure css solution since you need some js, but pretty much create a new element overlayiing over the whole page (the gray out). make sure its not position: static and has a z-index.
  1041. # [18:58] <xonecas> then you apply a position: relative to the inspected element, and give it a higher z-index. That should do it (or you might have to use position: absolute on the inpected element, and set its placement with js
  1042. # [18:59] <xonecas> )
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  1044. # [19:00] <jarek> xonecas: but if I select text node that its background will be still behind overlay
  1045. # [19:00] <jarek> s/that/then
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  1048. # [19:01] <xonecas> are you sure? try it on jsfiddle see what happens :-)
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  1053. # [19:05] <xonecas> o/ tw2113
  1054. # [19:05] <xonecas> w
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  1056. # [19:07] <tw2113> yo
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  1078. # [19:34] <Mikeumus_> Thanks for recommending the three.js irc for <canvas> questions but I think they are all sleeping.
  1079. # [19:34] <Mikeumus_> I have a quick canvas question. I'm mashing together two of my canvas experiments and trying to draw a curved root to my tree but my root just disappears: http://jsfiddle.net/Mikeumus/gHM5B/6/
  1080. # [19:35] <Mikeumus_> I'm declaring the canvas and ctx variables twice with different widths and heights and I think this is resetting the canvas somehow.
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  1083. # [19:40] <Pomax> not sure about your actual proble, but your bezier code is not correct
  1084. # [19:40] <Pomax> oh sorry, totally missed the 3 in your B2 and B3 functions, it is =P
  1085. # [19:40] <Mikeumus_> It's working for what I need.
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  1087. # [19:40] <Mikeumus_> I'll admit I copied it and my Math days are past but the problem is after the curve is drawn, it disappears.
  1088. # [19:41] <Pomax> I'm not quite following this code, there's not a lot of documentation to guide readers =x
  1089. # [19:41] <Pomax> yeah I see one curve forming, then disappearing, then a real tree forming
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  1091. # [19:41] * theresa_lunch is now known as theresaanna
  1092. # [19:41] <Mikeumus_> yeah, the idea is for the curve not to disappear
  1093. # [19:41] <Pomax> so it has to stay there and then the tree has to form on top of it?
  1094. # [19:41] <Mikeumus_> there is init() and doCurve where ctx and canvas variables are being declared.
  1095. # [19:42] <Mikeumus_> exactly.
  1096. # [19:42] <Mikeumus_> Your right too I probably should start building the habit of notarizing things.
  1097. # [19:44] <Pomax> I can see how doCurve gets called, but how is init() triggered?
  1098. # [19:45] <Mikeumus_> it's in a else statement inside of doCurve()
  1099. # [19:45] <Mikeumus_> as init()
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  1101. # [19:46] <Pomax> aah
  1102. # [19:46] <Pomax> then yes, it's your canvas manipulation.
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  1104. # [19:47] <Pomax> setting any properties on canvas after you're already using the context makes funky things happen, including things like setting width/height or css font
  1105. # [19:47] <Mikeumus_> k
  1106. # [19:47] <Pomax> comment out the canvas.width/height=... lines and you'll see the context isn't cleared
  1107. # [19:47] <Mikeumus_> but declaring the ctx and canvas variables twice doesn't hurt?
  1108. # [19:47] <Pomax> since you already know the canvas and context, you could pass those into the init function instead.
  1109. # [19:47] <Mikeumus_> okay
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  1111. # [19:48] <Pomax> just fetching them doesn't hurt, but don't touch canvas itself.
  1112. # [19:48] <Pomax> touching context is fine.
  1113. # [19:48] <Mikeumus_> like init(canvas, ctx){...} ?
  1114. # [19:48] <Pomax> yeah
  1115. # [19:48] <Mikeumus_> k
  1116. # [19:48] <Mikeumus_> let me try it out.
  1117. # [19:48] <Mikeumus_> 8D
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  1119. # [19:49] <Pomax> you're kind of negating the purpose of wrapping the bulk of your code if you're going to invent global variables, btw =)
  1120. # [19:49] <Pomax> that "treegrow" var, for instance, shouldn't be known to the doCurve function. it breaks the closure
  1121. # [19:50] <Mikeumus_> what does breaking the closure mean?
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  1123. # [19:50] <Mikeumus_> the code never stops?
  1124. # [19:50] <Mikeumus_> running*
  1125. # [19:50] <Pomax> JS can be optimised by the engine by taking bits of "this code lives in its own world"
  1126. # [19:52] <Pomax> by making the code use both local and global variables, the engine can't run it as quickly/efficiently as it would if you made those variables locally referenced instead.
  1127. # [19:52] <Mikeumus_> k
  1128. # [19:53] <Pomax> it's why we use (function(arg){...}(jQuery)); for instance.
  1129. # [19:53] <Mikeumus_> so I should fit doCurve() into my function ($);
  1130. # [19:53] <Mikeumus_> yeah what does that mean?
  1131. # [19:53] <Mikeumus_> I know that there is three functions in: (function(arg){...}(jQuery)); I think
  1132. # [19:53] <Pomax> it means "declare a function, function(arg){...} and call it with jQuery as argument
  1133. # [19:54] <Pomax> so you're creating a self-contained block of code that doesn't need to look outside its own scope to find jQuery
  1134. # [19:54] <Mikeumus_> so it's all local basically
  1135. # [19:54] <Pomax> once its been built by the engine, it can be isolated and optimised as such
  1136. # [19:54] <Pomax> yes
  1137. # [19:54] <Mikeumus_> k
  1138. # [19:54] <Mikeumus_> never with anyhting global
  1139. # [19:54] <Mikeumus_> interesting
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  1141. # [19:55] <Pomax> exactly. if you use window or document, you can pass those in the same way
  1142. # [19:55] <Pomax> (function(j,w,d) {...} (jQuery, window, document)); does the trick
  1143. # [19:55] <Mikeumus_> pass them in like (function($,window,document){...}(jQuery)); ?
  1144. # [19:56] <Mikeumus_> opps yeah I was jsut going to ask
  1145. # [19:56] <Mikeumus_> hum
  1146. # [19:56] <Pomax> think of it as shorthand for "unnamedf = function(j,w,d){...}; unnamedf(jQuery,window,document)"
  1147. # [19:56] <Pomax> which it literally is =)
  1148. # [19:58] <Mikeumus_> but arn't those two functions arugments of unnamedf instead of being assigned to the two functions or is it the same thing?
  1149. # [19:59] <Mikeumus_> not to be nit picky but just wondering.
  1150. # [19:59] <Pomax> the first part declares the variables for local scope use inside the function, then second part calls the function using the execution operator (), with values to initialise those local scope variables
  1151. # [20:00] <Pomax> so if we used (function(jQuery, window, document) {}()); you would find that jQuery, window and document were in fact null inside the function, because they never got initialised, only declared
  1152. # [20:01] <Mikeumus_> hum..
  1153. # [20:01] <Pomax> the naming is misleading
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  1155. # [20:01] <Pomax> we like keeping the names the same, but as function args the names are completely irrelevant.
  1156. # [20:01] <Pomax> (function(jQuery, window, document) {}()); and (function(a,b,ct) {}()); are the same function
  1157. # [20:02] <Mikeumus_> hum...
  1158. # [20:02] <Pomax> which is one of the ways you can optimise a closure - because none of the variables are global, you can start renaming them to single letter variables.
  1159. # [20:03] <Pomax> function(a){a('lol').text('teehee');}(jQuery); is one of those minification steps you see in YUI etc.
  1160. # [20:05] <Mikeumus_> k, I'm trying to follow that last one, give me a second more.
  1161. # [20:06] <Mikeumus_> a('lol') can have a argument that's a string, is that what it's doing?
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  1163. # [20:07] <dilvie> Mikeumus_: a = jQuery
  1164. # [20:07] <Pomax> what he said
  1165. # [20:07] <Mikeumus_> ohhh!
  1166. # [20:07] <Mikeumus_> lol k
  1167. # [20:07] <Pomax> you declare a local variable called 'a' in the function definition, and then instantiate it by passinng jQuery
  1168. # [20:07] <Mikeumus_> I see that part now
  1169. # [20:07] <dilvie> you're passing jQuery in as the first parameter to the function call ... }(jQuery)
  1170. # [20:08] <dilvie> and referencing it inside the function as it was declared in the function signature: function(a)...
  1171. # [20:08] <Mikeumus_> but what does jQuery('lol') do?
  1172. # [20:08] <dilvie> so a = jQuery inside the function.
  1173. # [20:08] <dilvie> Mikeumus_: That's not the point.
  1174. # [20:09] <Mikeumus_> k, well I understand the above point then
  1175. # [20:09] <Pomax> jQuery('lol') selects <lol>, it's just a use example
  1176. # [20:09] <dilvie> replace that with $('#lol') -- or any valid selector.
  1177. # [20:09] <Mikeumus_> k I see
  1178. # [20:09] <cashshadow> this has been really helpful!
  1179. # [20:09] <dilvie> it just selects some element(s) and replaces the text.
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  1182. # [20:10] <Mikeumus_> okay let me see if I can get this working. I'll show it off if I do or I'll come back with more problems if otherwise.
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  1185. # [20:11] <Pomax> good luck and have fun
  1186. # [20:11] <Mikeumus_> Yea, Thanks a million Pomax and dilvie.
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  1189. # [20:14] <dilvie> I have a bunch of links to help people learn JavaScript at http://ericleads.com/2011/09/learning-javascript-up-to-speed-in-no-time/
  1190. # [20:14] <dilvie> Tutorials and good books.
  1191. # [20:14] <dilvie> and video.
  1192. # [20:16] <Mikeumus_> hum, I'll check them out
  1193. # [20:16] <RLa> dilvie, why is javascript: the definite guide missing?
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  1198. # [20:18] <RLa> it contains everything, from basic introduction to advanced html5 features (6th edition)
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  1209. # [20:21] <supsup> divya: i logged issue to github, but it appears if not in edit mode cannot see tags i used.
  1210. # [20:21] <divya> i can see the tags :/
  1211. # [20:21] <divya> https://github.com/h5bp/html5-boilerplate/issues/856
  1212. # [20:21] <divya> ?
  1213. # [20:21] <socialhapy> ★ Issue #856 on html5-boilerplate, reported by supsup (2m, 13s ago): Dreamweaver templates and IE conditionals / possible solutions
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  1215. # [20:22] <supsup> yah
  1216. # [20:22] <supsup> it strips them out
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  1218. # [20:22] <supsup> for some reason
  1219. # [20:22] <supsup> if u can edit it
  1220. # [20:22] <supsup> u can read it ;/
  1221. # [20:22] <supsup> i don't get why it's doing that
  1222. # [20:22] <supsup> but in edit mode u can see the tags
  1223. # [20:22] <divya> ohh
  1224. # [20:22] <divya> i see
  1225. # [20:22] <divya> you need to escape them
  1226. # [20:22] <supsup> waht is the escape?
  1227. # [20:22] <supsup> char
  1228. # [20:23] <divya> `
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  1230. # [20:24] <divya> ha it wont work for multi line supsup
  1231. # [20:24] <divya> for that you need to put 2 spaces before the code.
  1232. # [20:24] <divya> so if you are in your text editor
  1233. # [20:25] <divya> just align them all to the right by two spaces, copy paste again
  1234. # [20:25] <divya> er 4 spaces
  1235. # [20:26] <divya> supsup: i edited one of them https://github.com/h5bp/html5-boilerplate/issues/856 u can follow it for the rest :P
  1236. # [20:26] <socialhapy> ★ Issue #856 on html5-boilerplate, reported by supsup (6m, 34s ago): Dreamweaver templates and IE conditionals / possible solutions
  1237. # [20:26] <dilvie> RLa: it's missing because the feature is called "up to speed in no time"
  1238. # [20:26] <RLa> oh
  1239. # [20:26] <dilvie> RLa: The Definitive Guide is not a quick primer. It's more bible-sized. =)
  1240. # [20:26] <supsup> yah never used github bugs before
  1241. # [20:27] <dilvie> RLa: Although, the newest version of Definitive Guide is quite good.
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  1243. # [20:27] <RLa> you can also skip some parts
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  1245. # [20:27] <dilvie> I've really enjoyed it. Maybe I'll add a note that the reader should check that out for more detailed coverage.
  1246. # [20:28] <RLa> that would be good idea
  1247. # [20:28] <dilvie> Thanks for the feedback.
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  1267. # [20:42] <tpe11etier> Hi, I'm wondering if anyone has a recommendation on a training location/class in the boston area
  1268. # [20:43] <divya> tpe11etier: Bocoup
  1269. # [20:43] <divya> ?g bocoup training boston
  1270. # [20:43] <bot-t> divya, The Bocoup Loft - http://loft.bocoup.com/
  1271. # [20:44] <tpe11etier> thank you
  1272. # [20:44] <JonathanNeal> back
  1273. # [20:44] <jarek> if I split the application logic into two parts:
  1274. # [20:44] <jarek> - the UI, which sits in browser main thread
  1275. # [20:44] <jarek> - and the application logic, which sits in separate Web Worker
  1276. # [20:45] <jarek> how is such architecture called?
  1277. # [20:45] <jarek> client-server? Some variation of MVC?
  1278. # [20:45] <Pomax> just "multithreaded"
  1279. # [20:46] <Pomax> it'll be a client-side multithreaded application.
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  1281. # [20:46] <jarek> too bad there is no more specific term, it's hard to find anything about it on Google
  1282. # [20:47] <Pomax> we've been doing that kind of separation on an industrial scale since the 80s O_o
  1283. # [20:47] <jarek> e.g. I need framework that would make it easy to communicate between main thread and the "core" which sits in Web Worker
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  1285. # [20:47] <jarek> Pomax: yeah, but in JavaScript world this is something new
  1286. # [20:47] <Pomax> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Using_web_workers
  1287. # [20:47] <Pomax> only in availability. not in concept I would hope
  1288. # [20:48] <divya> multi-threaded seems like how it would be broadly classified
  1289. # [20:48] <Pomax> all the ideas that apply to general UI/logic separation in traditional multithreaded applications applies to webworkers.
  1290. # [20:49] <Pomax> it's callbacks all the way down
  1291. # [20:50] <JonathanNeal> remysharp: back and looking into the high security mode issue as well as updating iepp but keeping the onbeforeprint sadness.
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  1293. # [20:55] <tpe11etier> loft.bocoup.com seems great but maybe a bit too advanced for now. Anyone have another suggestion that might be more geared to novices?
  1294. # [20:57] * Quits: dilvie (~chatzilla@64.134.227.53) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  1295. # [20:58] <Pomax> hm, interesting div+canvas bugs
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  1297. # [20:59] <Pomax> <div><canvas/></div> without a div line-height: 0 adds mystery space between the canvas and the div
  1298. # [20:59] <Pomax> http://jsfiddle.net/kTujZ/
  1299. # [20:59] <divya> cnavas is inline block
  1300. # [20:59] <divya> err inline
  1301. # [20:59] <divya> its not a bug
  1302. # [20:59] <divya> its a feature
  1303. # [21:00] <divya> much like <img
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  1306. # [21:00] * divya sucks at typing
  1307. # [21:00] <JonathanNeal> IE<9 with high security does not allow for javascript or behaviors.
  1308. # [21:00] <Pomax> it's a feature that demonstrates the height for <canvas> in line-height context is wrong
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  1310. # [21:01] <Pomax> line-height doesn't mean "pad", it means "distance between consecutive baselines", so if there's only one line of elements... its value is utterly irrelevant.
  1311. # [21:03] <Pomax> I don
  1312. # [21:03] <Pomax> 't know, reading http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/visudet.html#line-height still makes it seem like it's a bug rather than a feature
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  1322. # [21:06] <philihp> Dear Google, would be cool if http://google.com asked IE to render the page with Chrome Frame before asking to install Chrome.
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  1326. # [21:13] <Ms2ger> Dear Google, Chrome Frame sucks
  1327. # [21:14] * jacine is now known as jacine|call
  1328. # [21:14] <Pomax> Dear Microsoft, would be cool if http://google.com didn't have to ask for Chrome to be installed anymore. Please hardline older versions of IE so that they literally cannot be used anymore.
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  1347. # [21:24] <Mikeumus_> Can anyone see how I'm not passing these variables into init() correctly?: http://jsfiddle.net/Mikeumus/gHM5B/8/
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  1349. # [21:25] <jaequery> hi guys
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  1351. # [21:25] <jaequery> can i load a remote image onto a canvas? someone said thats not possible due to cross-site error. is this true?
  1352. # [21:25] <Mikeumus_> By the way it does work Pomax if I just redeclare ctx and canvas variables so thanks again.
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  1357. # [21:27] <Pomax> better to recycle than redeclare =)
  1358. # [21:27] <Pomax> but good to know it works for you
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  1360. # [21:27] <Mikeumus_> yeah I tried to recycle with init(canvas, ctx) but no luck.
  1361. # [21:28] <Mikeumus_> seen here: http://jsfiddle.net/Mikeumus/gHM5B/8/ Since I have it working you don't have to check it out but I was just wondering why init wasn't using the variables I was passing into it.
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  1364. # [21:30] <Pomax> you need to change your fiddling a little. The four different content boxes are there for a reason =)
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  1367. # [21:31] <Mikeumus_> ohh, to seperate the js and css html I see.
  1368. # [21:31] <Pomax> http://jsfiddle.net/k8FXD/
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  1370. # [21:32] <Mikeumus_> yeah, I'm working in Dreamweaver just for the code highlighting and then just pasting it into fiddle.
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  1372. # [21:34] <Pomax> you might want to tell dreamweaver to generate nicer code, too
  1373. # [21:34] <Pomax> http://www.javascriptbeautifier.com/ goes a long way =)
  1374. # [21:35] <Mikeumus_> Nothing is being generated there, besides the html template at the top mostly
  1375. # [21:35] <Mikeumus_> the messy code can be blamed on my mostly
  1376. # [21:35] <Pomax> ah. in that case, shame on you =D
  1377. # [21:35] <Mikeumus_> lol 8(
  1378. # [21:35] <Pomax> another thing worth taking into account: it's generally a good idea to declare functions before you call them.
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  1380. # [21:36] <Pomax> if onCurve calls init, try to have the code for init before oncurve
  1381. # [21:36] <Pomax> *doCurve
  1382. # [21:36] <Mikeumus_> yeah that makes sense.
  1383. # [21:36] <Mikeumus_> opps.
  1384. # [21:37] <Pomax> JavaScript's super lenient on what it lets you do, but it does mean you have to be careful with things like that. JSLint can help spot some of those errors for you (although I tend to overrule it for almost half of the things Crockford has it set up for)
  1385. # [21:37] <Pomax> http://www.jslint.com/
  1386. # [21:39] <Mikeumus_> yeah jslint can be political.
  1387. # [21:39] <Mikeumus_> let's see what it says I guess.
  1388. # [21:39] <Pomax> I just take exception with the word "tolerate". but that's my problem, I take words seriously
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  1397. # [21:54] <Blahh_> I am writing a simple http server, i need it to support the video and audio tags, is there anything special with these or is it just like serving an image?
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  1403. # [21:59] <RLa> Blahh_, i think the server must support some seeking/skipping/resuming from specific position
  1404. # [21:59] <RLa> most http servers do that anyway
  1405. # [22:00] <RLa> so you can ask, "give me file starting from nth byte"
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  1414. # [22:10] <bitwise_> not really html5 related but anyone know why goog chrome doesnt resolve my local domain hosts? if i type in something like p.loc i have a host entry on my mac but chrome always comes up with a google search and a 'did you mean' link to the url
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  1417. # [22:15] <velts> has anyone user explorercanvas before here?
  1418. # [22:15] <divya> bot-t: tell BrianBlakely I got a node backbone thing running already for that project!
  1419. # [22:15] <bot-t> divya, Okay.
  1420. # [22:16] <budmaddock1> bitwise: local domain hosts in linux have to be in /var/www/ directory. Files are read as /path/filename back to root. If you put in just a directory name /root/directory it will give you a listing of files. Any of that what you needed?
  1421. # [22:16] <velts> i cannot get it to work in IE7 or 8
  1422. # [22:17] <bitwise_> budmaddock1: hmm i am accessing via http protocol, so i dont think it applies. good to know though.
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  1434. # [22:41] <budmaddock1> bitwise Do you need to type localhost/p.loc perhaps? Something like http://localhost/dogs/Videos/JakeBoys.MP4 will bring up my local apache server and show a short clip about kids with their dog saved in /var/www.
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  1440. # [22:50] <jetienne> q. i would like to prevent the arrow keys up/down to trigger a page scroll, can i do that ?
  1441. # [22:51] <jetienne> and if so, how :)
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  1443. # [22:53] <Pomax> a) don't be a dick =)
  1444. # [22:53] <Pomax> b) intercept the key event on document, and stop propagation if it's your desired key
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  1447. # [22:56] <jetienne> Pomax: on which element i should bind the key events ? i tried on <iframe> and on <body>
  1448. # [22:57] <jetienne> oh my bad i forgot to say. my case is about embedding a game in a webpage via iframe
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  1450. # [22:58] <jetienne> Pomax: to intercept keyup/keydown on body is working if the focus is in thebody
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  1452. # [22:58] <jetienne> Pomax: but it fails if the focus is on the iframe.
  1453. # [22:58] <jetienne> my goal is to be able to use arrow keys as control on my game
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  1455. # [22:59] <Pomax> you want to intercept keys on window and document.
  1456. # [23:02] <jetienne> Pomax: ok will try
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  1465. # [23:09] <jetienne> Pomax: http://marblesoccer.com/embedded.html apparently i miss something. i bound window, document and the iframe
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  1467. # [23:10] <jetienne> Pomax: none of my event handler receive an event in this case, in chrome and firefox
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  1472. # [23:14] <Pomax> here
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  1474. # [23:15] <Pomax> http://pomax.nihongoresources.com/downloads/globalhike.html
  1475. # [23:15] <Pomax> hit up/down, then click disable. then try hitting up/down again.
  1476. # [23:16] <Pomax> (modify the code to take multiple event handlers into account when you're relying on addEventListener for handler binding)
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  1478. # [23:17] <jetienne> Pomax: yep but you got no iframe. can you add an iframe in which we could put the focus ?
  1479. # [23:17] <Pomax> use ye code in ye iframe's html source
  1480. # [23:18] <Pomax> iframes are separate documents
  1481. # [23:23] <Mikeumus_> 8)
  1482. # [23:23] <Mikeumus_> Thanks again I learned alot today.
  1483. # [23:24] <Mikeumus_> We'd all be screwed without people like you.
  1484. # [23:24] <Mikeumus_> brb
  1485. # [23:25] <jetienne> Pomax: it worked. thanks a LOT for your help
  1486. # [23:26] <Mikeumus_> I'm thinking of creating a paralleled tree growing below to act as a reflection in the blue footer (water) below and with a lower globalAlpha on it's canvas.
  1487. # [23:27] <Mikeumus_> but I've already gone pretty out of scope but I think think I might do it. lol.
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  1492. # [23:40] <Pomax> mike5w3c: ice =D
  1493. # [23:40] <Pomax> with an extra n
  1494. # [23:41] <Pomax> also with a different nick autocomplete. total mirc fail =_=
  1495. # [23:41] <Pomax> Mikeumus_: nice =)
  1496. # [23:41] <Pomax> there we go.
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  1510. # [23:54] <pyDude> how can i make use of html5 to download all the attachments from inbox,i need those api,igoogle gadgets api can't extract the attachments ,i was wondering that there should be any api to first authenticate using oauth,then render the received page and then download the attachments,i know that using and xpi called attachment extractor with thunderbird it can be done but i want to make something for igoogle so that it could be used in any browser as well,any
  1511. # [23:54] <pyDude> help please
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  1514. # [23:55] <pyDude> just i need to select the emails with attachment and i can then download all at once,is it possible with html5 file writer api,
  1515. # [23:55] * Quits: dgathright (~dgathrigh@nat/yahoo/x-enpdshwflwlcwjnr) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  1516. # [23:55] * dgathright_ is now known as dgathright
  1517. # [23:56] <pyDude> i guess i will need to make use of the attachment extractor xpi for thunderbird into something for javascript so that i can put it on igoogle web store
  1518. # [23:57] <pyDude> any help ..............:D
  1519. # [23:59] <Pomax> no idea, but then I've not done anything with those APIs
  1520. # Session Close: Fri Nov 18 00:00:00 2011

The end :)