/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2012-02-24 / end

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# Session Start: Fri Feb 24 00:00:00 2012
# Session Ident: #html5
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# [00:41] <tertl4> how is the job market for web development?
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# [00:47] <csmrfx> white hot
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# [00:54] <tw2113> there's no shortage of work for great web development
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# [00:57] <tertl4> thats good to know
# [00:57] <tertl4> i am learning the .NET apprach to web development
# [00:57] <tertl4> MVC atm
# [00:57] <csmrfx> I'm sorry
# [00:58] <tertl4> lemme guess, i dont like .NET
# [00:59] <tertl4> s/i/u
# [01:00] <tertl4> C# ftw!
# [01:00] <csmrfx> ew
# [01:00] <tertl4> can u help me understand something
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# [01:00] <tertl4> if u have a database in a website, how does that affect the hosting
# [01:01] <tertl4> do u look for hosting that supports SQL
# [01:01] <csmrfx> I talk to the admins
# [01:01] <csmrfx> u better, too
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# [01:01] <tertl4> what admin?
# [01:01] <csmrfx> not a fan of db style, either
# [01:02] <csmrfx> not that you can always do without
# [01:02] <tertl4> not a fan of db?
# [01:02] <tertl4> what else is there?
# [01:03] <csmrfx> lol, filesystems? "static" files, xml,...
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# [01:06] <csmrfx> I'd start worrying about db's after the first 20k users
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# [01:14] <tertl4> true
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# [01:23] <m0> Hey
# [01:23] <m0> Does anyone know about BlobBuilder and Canvas?
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# [01:23] <m0> The image data in my canvas starts out with data:image/png;base64, then a bunch of base64 text
# [01:24] <m0> I want to place it in a BlobBuilder, so I am converting it to a binary object by http://pastebin.com/Qa9VPkXb
# [01:25] <m0> I am getting a corrupted image for that blob
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# [01:28] <Jayflux> tertl4 whats made you take that approach. Just interested.
# [01:28] <tertl4> Jayflux the .NET framework?
# [01:28] <Jayflux> yep
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# [01:29] <tertl4> Jayflux idk, it seems to make the most sense to me
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# [01:34] <tertl4> Jayflux no comment?
# [01:34] <Jayflux> not really tertl4. I've never used it I was just wondering if there was any particular reason you took that approach :)
# [01:35] <Jayflux> I have no critisism about that.
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# [01:36] <tertl4> Jayflux ok
# [01:36] <chee> this is really a very good channel with good people in it and a good place to ask questions about nearly anything to do with nearly any area of web development and get good answers and i like it
# [01:37] <tertl4> chee
# [01:37] <tertl4> :)
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# [02:56] <destryalhmns> google in an iframe?
# [02:56] <chovy> chee: i read the book you recommended.
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# [02:57] <destryalhmns> http://www.seanmchugh.info/player.htm - its just a prototype right now but id still rather use google than insane liberal yet weirdly pc npr
# [02:57] <destryalhmns> but when i use google as the iframe its just a blank page
# [02:57] <chee> chovy: :D
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# [03:03] <daleharvey> hey, is it possible to break lines with flexbox? like I want to put 4 elements in the same parent, and sometimes I want them 2x2, sometimes 4x1
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# [03:06] <chovy> destryalhmns: i don't get it. what does it do?
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# [03:10] <chovy> chee: do you have any experience with nodejs?
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# [03:11] <chee> chovy: no not yet! but i will soon ! i've just recently got a linode and i'llbe having some fun with it when i get it all set up
# [03:13] <chovy> cool
# [03:13] <paul_irish> daleharvey: dunno. :/
# [03:13] <paul_irish> despite having written an article on it i totally forget it now
# [03:14] <paul_irish> divya: http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/flexbox/quick/ got a warning at the top btw
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# [03:22] <divya> thnx
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# [03:24] <chovy> any good coding magazines out there? I found CODE magazine, which is for .NET developers.
# [03:24] <chovy> and jsmag, but its not available on the kindle.
# [03:26] <paul_irish> net magazine
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# [03:28] <chovy> geezus: $124.99
# [03:29] <chovy> or $5.42/mo on the kindle.
# [03:29] <chovy> not too bad.
# [03:29] <destryalhmns> the cincinnati library has a whole section of computer magazines
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# [03:35] <divya> chovy: why u want coding magazines?
# [03:35] <divya> just read stuff on the internet
# [03:35] <divya> magazines are mostly too late
# [03:35] <chovy> divya: just something to read while i'm on the throne.
# [03:35] <divya> hahaha
# [03:35] <divya> print them!
# [03:35] <divya> from your instapaper
# [03:35] <destryalhmns> step 1: glass floor
# [03:35] <chovy> i hate printers.
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# [03:35] <tw2113> printers....eaters of paper
# [03:35] <divya> chovy: buy a kindle then?
# [03:36] <destryalhmns> step 2: useless flat screen from 2005
# [03:36] <chovy> i have a kindle.
# [03:36] <divya> then?
# [03:36] <chovy> that's why i wish jsmag was avail. on the kindle. I just emailed the editor.
# [03:36] <destryalhmns> step 3: the game controller on newegg that reads your brain waves
# [03:36] <chovy> I think i'm going to subscribe to .net
# [03:36] <divya> chovy: just send all your instapaper items to your kindle
# [03:36] <destryalhmns> boom, toilet literature
# [03:36] <divya> o pls dont chovy
# [03:36] <divya> its terrible
# [03:36] <divya> waste of your time
# [03:36] <chovy> instapaper?
# [03:36] <divya> yeah
# [03:36] <chovy> what is instapaper?
# [03:36] <destryalhmns> im being ignored?
# [03:37] <divya> http://www.instapaper.com/
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# [03:37] <divya> chovy: first task is to subscribe to billions of feeds on web development
# [03:37] <divya> second task is to instapaper remotely interesting articles
# [03:37] <divya> finally you will never run out of content to read
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# [03:39] <divya> chovy: there is also this jsweekly newsletter
# [03:39] <divya> so you could just instapaper all those links
# [03:39] <divya> and it will be delivered to your kindle weekly
# [03:39] <tw2113> half the fun would be sifting for interesting topics
# [03:39] <chovy> divya: this one? http://javascriptweekly.com/
# [03:40] <divya> yep
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# [03:40] <divya> the content is mosssstly ok
# [03:40] <chovy> heh, paul_irish is on the homepage
# [03:40] <divya> same guy runs http://html5weekly.com/
# [03:40] <divya> also oooook
# [03:41] <chovy> http://html5weekly.com/
# [03:41] <chovy> heh
# [03:41] <tw2113> if i see a webdev based site without paul_irish i wonder if it's a fake site
# [03:41] <divya> orly?
# [03:41] <tw2113> nah, just teasin
# [03:41] <chovy> http://rubyweekly.com/
# [03:41] <chovy> tw2113: lol
# [03:42] <chovy> his avatar is like a logo.
# [03:42] <destryalhmns> screw this im joining chromium
# [03:42] * tw2113 subscribes to JSWeekly
# [03:43] <tw2113> i might as well if i want to work on my js-fu
# [03:43] <chovy> yea
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# [03:44] <tw2113> ok, i know we have Opera employees in here, same with Google and Mozilla...anyone repping IE?
# [03:45] <chovy> @CooperPress you should do a nodeweekly for Node JS.
# [03:45] <destryalhmns> dont forget the cia
# [03:45] <divya> he does
# [03:45] <chovy> divya: i don't see it on his site.
# [03:46] <divya> oh i thought i saw it somewhere
# [03:46] <destryalhmns> since there are like 300 people here and 4 people are talking and an entire one human being (me) has beein completely and rudely ignored since he/she has been here
# [03:47] <tw2113> you've been ignored?
# [03:47] <destryalhmns> oh now that im possibly ! a he
# [03:47] <destryalhmns> i think so
# [03:47] <chovy> destryalhmns: you seem to be talking to yourself.
# [03:47] <tw2113> i've been reading what you say
# [03:47] <destryalhmns> oh
# [03:48] <chovy> me too, but it's offtopic, so I don't really know how to respond.
# [03:48] <destryalhmns> i can contribute to the conversation
# [03:48] <tw2113> don't let us stop you
# [03:48] <destryalhmns> it has not been off topic you are lying
# [03:48] <destryalhmns> read up
# [03:48] <chovy> destryalhmns: what coding magazines do you recommend?
# [03:48] <destryalhmns> and dont copy and paste one thing
# [03:49] <destryalhmns> anyway its fine
# [03:49] <destryalhmns> move along, nothing to see here
# [03:50] <tw2113> *listens to you*
# [03:51] <destryalhmns> i made this! http://www.seanmchugh.info/player.htm
# [03:51] <destryalhmns> want to use google instead of lame-pr
# [03:52] <destryalhmns> back button issues to worried about my minions
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# [03:55] <chovy> instapaper.com's email address doesn't pass the validation on javascriptweekly.com's subscription form.
# [03:56] <chovy> readlater.mn1gff2jxmg@instapaper.com
# [03:56] <chovy> it won't accept that email address.
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# [04:00] <destryalhmns> or .. www.seanmchugh.info/untitled.png
# [04:01] <destryalhmns> easy way to keep track of things
# [04:02] <chovy> destryalhmns: that's way too easy.
# [04:02] <destryalhmns> my friend is like you
# [04:02] <chovy> that's how I keep my list of movies to watch.
# [04:02] <chovy> But the problem is that its not in a cloud.
# [04:02] <destryalhmns> finds the craziest #@$ and makes the weirdesst connections in the new
# [04:02] <destryalhmns> -e+S
# [04:02] <destryalhmns> ~
# [04:06] <niftylettuce> does anyone know where I can find better stats on email client usage than this? http://www.campaignmonitor.com/stats/email-clients/
# [04:07] <chovy> niftylettuce: whawt's worng with that one.
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# [04:07] <niftylettuce> i'd like to get a few sets of stats than just one
# [04:07] <niftylettuce> try to normalize it all from reputable sources
# [04:07] <chovy> niftylettuce: http://litmus.com/resources/email-client-stats
# [04:08] <destryalhmns> what is email client usage?
# [04:08] <niftylettuce> % market share of web-based email clients
# [04:08] <niftylettuce> e.g. gmail/hotmail/yahoo
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# [04:08] <chovy> http://zsn-it.com/blog/2009/05/email-client-usage-statistics/
# [04:09] <destryalhmns> why do you need it? it would be easy to monitor on your own site
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# [04:09] <niftylettuce> i need to understand the market
# [04:09] <destryalhmns> spam, etc
# [04:09] <niftylettuce> see trends etc
# [04:10] <niftylettuce> chovy: thanks for that link, if u have others too i appreciate it
# [04:10] <destryalhmns> trends?
# [04:11] <niftylettuce> growth dood
# [04:11] <chovy> this is cool: a jvascript podcast http://javascriptjabber.com/
# [04:11] <destryalhmns> i am lucky enough to write a lot of code, or at least patheticaly try to
# [04:11] <destryalhmns> what i have learned is that you need to take an approach that works
# [04:11] <niftylettuce> what are you talking about lol
# [04:11] <chee> http://178.79.155.84/what.%E2%98%82
# [04:11] <niftylettuce> ☂
# [04:11] <destryalhmns> and extend that the real world... marketing for example
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# [04:12] <destryalhmns> if you want to sell something... you have to take a real approach not an imaginary one...... so how is knowing what email someone uses going to help you?
# [04:12] <chee> i am happy to learn that this is perfectly valid in mime.types:
# [04:12] <chee> text/html html htm shtml ☂;
# [04:13] <niftylettuce> mysite.com/☂
# [04:13] <niftylettuce> totally
# [04:13] <niftylettuce> super duper easter egg material
# [04:13] <chee> and that is indeed http://178.79.155.84/what.☂
# [04:14] <destryalhmns> lettuce, help
# [04:14] <niftylettuce> ?
# [04:14] <destryalhmns> want to understand the problem
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# [04:14] <niftylettuce> cant disclose problem
# [04:14] <niftylettuce> but can say that im targeting top web based clients
# [04:14] <chovy> nice
# [04:15] <destryalhmns> web scraper first thought
# [04:15] <niftylettuce> and the lulz are raining so grab your ☂'s
# [04:15] <niftylettuce> when i solve problem u'll be first to kno
# [04:15] <niftylettuce> can see if i solved it or just made problem worse
# [04:15] <chee> can i be first and he be second
# [04:16] <destryalhmns> but you also have to consider how easy it is to pwn and spam from an email address..... hotmail might have some accounts but what % are humans let alone consumers? zero
# [04:16] <niftylettuce> sure if u get in my car, samurai is front seat, shotgun is backseat
# [04:16] <destryalhmns> answer - you want 75% google and 25% yahoo
# [04:17] <niftylettuce> gmail, hotmail, apple, yahoo
# [04:17] <niftylettuce> boom shakalaka
# [04:17] <niftylettuce> this all relates to HTML no worries
# [04:17] <destryalhmns> http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
# [04:17] <destryalhmns> safari >4%
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# [04:18] <niftylettuce> wtf w3?
# [04:18] <destryalhmns> ...~
# [04:18] <niftylettuce> dood learn ur lesson
# [04:18] <niftylettuce> destryalhmns: http://w3fools.com/
# [04:18] <niftylettuce> HTML5 sin u just commited
# [04:18] <niftylettuce> we are forgiving tho
# [04:18] <destryalhmns> i use that site daily to do amazing-incredible things
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# [04:20] <destryalhmns> im going to write a book
# [04:20] <destryalhmns> the title of which..
# [04:20] <destryalhmns> A Troll named lettuce
# [04:20] <niftylettuce> i'd buy it
# [04:21] <destryalhmns> lol
# [04:21] <destryalhmns> sry
# [04:23] <destryalhmns> so no way to put google in an iframe?
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# [04:28] <chovy> destryalhmns: you could proxy it.
# [04:28] <chovy> but you would loose all the assets.
# [04:28] <chovy> somehow there is a way to do it I think.
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# [04:29] <destryalhmns> true but server side would be embaressing
# [04:29] <chovy> http://www.proxybrowsing.com/browse.php?u=Oi8vd3d3Lmdvb2dsZS5jb20%3D&b=13&f=norefer
# [04:29] <destryalhmns> lol the homepage of my site (for now) www.seanmchugh.info is a proxy
# [04:30] <destryalhmns> which any of you can use if you need one
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# [04:30] <tertl4> mew
# [04:31] <danielfilho> good night all
# [04:31] <chovy> so you fetch the page w/ curl and rwrite all assets?
# [04:31] <destryalhmns> just sayin
# [04:31] <danielfilho> gotta sleep a little.
# [04:31] <chovy> i mean is that basic way a proxy works?
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# [04:32] <destryalhmns> idk, i googled asp.net proxy and 10 seconds later i had a proxy on my site until i could finish the projects in my garage
# [04:33] <chovy> destryalhmns: why did you need a proxy?
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# [04:41] <destryalhmns> the proxy is just so i have somehing up until i finish
# [04:41] <destryalhmns> atm i am concerned with why google doesnt allow iframes
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# [05:38] <divya> chee: welcome! :)
# [05:42] <chee> divya: !!
# [05:44] <divya> :)))
# [05:44] <chee> :))))!
# [05:45] <chee> i am having a fight with nginx and nginx is winning but not for long
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# [05:48] <divya> haha
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# [06:17] <TwistedDevotion2> hello?
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# [06:19] <TwistedDevotion2> Does anyone here have experience with SoundManager2?
# [06:20] <chee> zomg i forgot to include the configuration /;c\
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# [06:21] <TwistedDevotion2> anyone?
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# [06:24] <niloy> what is the difference between input[type='text'] and input[type='search']?
# [06:25] <destryalhmns> if its search, on submit the browser does a search
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# [06:25] <niloy> lolz?
# [06:26] <destryalhmns> i did just make that up
# [06:26] <destryalhmns> but it makes sense
# [06:26] <TwistedDevotion> had to disconnect for a second
# [06:27] <TwistedDevotion> does anyone in here have experience with SoundManager2? I need some help with it.
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# [06:37] <chee> niloy: input[type='text'] will match <input type=text> while input[type='search'] will match <input type=search>
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# [06:37] <chee> ‽
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# [06:44] <vladikoff> chee is on FIRE!!!!
# [06:45] <chee> oh no!
# [06:45] <chee> whatis the procedure
# [06:45] <chee> vladikoff: if i roll around will you douse me with water and step on me
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# [06:47] <divya> :)
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# [06:53] <niloy> chee, I was just using the css notation, I didnt exactly mean the css, I am talking about the two elements
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# [07:06] <chee> niloy: oh! well at the moment inmost browsers almost nothing is different about them. though i believe webkit does some pretty styling on them
# [07:06] <chee> that it gets very stubborn about
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# [07:07] <chee> in the future the type=search will be a hint for browsers to do magic things
# [07:07] <chee> niloy: also see here http://css-tricks.com/webkit-html5-search-inputs/
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# [07:15] <niloy> chee, thanks
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# [07:33] <moo-_-> well this is interesting http://tech.slashdot.org/story/12/02/23/2046209/proposed-video-copy-protection-scheme-for-html5-raises-w3c-ire
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# [13:34] <moo-_-> is localStorage origin sensitive HTTP/HTTPS?
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# [15:18] <digitalfiz> what books do you guys recommend for filling my brain with html5 goodness?
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# [15:19] <Marcosc> digitalfiz: http://diveintohtml5.info/
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# [15:20] <Ms2ger> Oh hey, it's Marcosc
# [15:21] <Marcosc> Ms2ger: yeah, if you can't beat them… :)
# [15:21] <Ms2ger> Hah
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# [15:22] <Marcosc> Ms2ger: and since you stop hanging out with us over at the W3C's #wac irc channel, I tracked you down here :)
# [15:22] <Ms2ger> Noooo
# [15:22] <Ms2ger> And you mean wam
# [15:23] <Marcosc> argh, yeah
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# [15:28] <Marcosc> Ms2ger: did you sign the petition: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/html-version-of-ecmascript-5-now/
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# [16:09] <Ms2ger> Marcosc, heh
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# [16:14] <Ms2ger> Name: Chee Rabbits on Feb 24, 2012
# [16:14] <Ms2ger> Comments: i'd also like them to change the name to Mocha
# [16:14] <chee> :D!
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# [16:15] <Marcosc> One battle at a time, people :)
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# [17:26] <chee> imagine!
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# [17:29] <tertl4> imagine the future
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# [18:00] <mystMan> If I have web based application and I want to make it available offline but to update the server database when it comes online again can i do that with html5 local storage? Basically say i have an apointment book and I want clients to be able to edit it offline and then when they connect to a network it talks to my site and updates the databse based on the local storage is that possible?
# [18:02] <mystMan> I have a client that frequents the train and he handles calls when he is riding the train. I want to extend the appointment book I have created for him so that he can make changes while on the train and then when he connects to the internet again it updates his servers database so that hsi clients can see he is booked at those time
# [18:02] <mystMan> s
# [18:02] <Jon47> mystMan you can totally do that
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# [18:02] <mystMan> Great! That was what I was hoping to hear.
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# [18:03] <mystMan> Are there any tutorials on how to do it? I cant find any on making the local storage data submit to a server database on connection
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# [18:21] <sorahn> so, the video.play method for the ipad only works on user interaction. Does anyone know if it's possible to have it restart automatically if it stalls?
# [18:22] <Jon47> mystMan break up the problem into pieces
# [18:23] <Jon47> 1. find out how to get your app to recognize when it's online
# [18:23] <Jon47> 2. find out how to get your app to send the data (you must already know how to do this right)
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# [19:27] <chovy> mystMan: you can look at offline-app on github
# [19:28] <chovy> it has an event fire when the connection comes back on.
# [19:28] <chovy> https://github.com/chovy/offline-app
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# [19:29] <chovy> .
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# [19:35] <avb_wkyhu> Anyone going to SFEDU?
# [19:35] <chee> wassa
# [19:36] <avb_wkyhu> the Startup Weekend in Santa Clara that starts today.
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# [19:37] <dilvie> avb_wkyhu: link?
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# [19:41] <avb_wkyhu> dilvie: http://sfedu.startupweekend.org/
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# [19:45] <JonnyCash> anyone know if it's possible in jquery/css3/html5 to do an animation of a pen writing?
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# [19:48] <dilvie> JonnyCash: something like that is probably best accomplished with svg or canvas.
# [19:48] <dilvie> JonnyCash: And yes, it's definitely possible.
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# [19:49] <shepazu> JonnyCash: gimme a minute
# [19:49] <shepazu> JonnyCash: http://schepers.cc/w3c/inkSVG/InkML2SVG.svg
# [19:49] <shepazu> hey, remysharp
# [19:51] <dilvie> JonnyCash: If you're in the bay area, there's an event coming up that will blow your mind regarding what's possible with html5 / css / javascript: https://plus.google.com/110077141419510454119/posts/6K7MqUb8ndr
# [19:51] <JonnyCash> dilvie
# [19:51] <JonnyCash> thanks for your responses- I didn't see them
# [19:51] <JonnyCash> as over in #jquery talking to them
# [19:51] <JonnyCash> they recommend canvas as well
# [19:52] <shepazu> JonnyCash: see my svg example, it's really easy
# [19:52] <JonnyCash> yes
# [19:52] <JonnyCash> that's perfect
# [19:52] <JonnyCash> thank you :)
# [19:53] <JonnyCash> hey do either of you mind if I PM you real quick? So I can show you a live example of what I want to animate?
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# [19:53] <shepazu> eating lunch, but I can look
# [19:54] <JonnyCash> ok cool
# [19:54] <JonnyCash> thanks :)
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# [20:13] <smplstk> caniuse json sockets canvas
# [20:13] <caniuse> smplstk: You can use JSON parsing, Web Sockets, and Canvas (basic support) with Firefox 6, and Chrome 14. http://sandbox.thewikies.com/caniuse/json+sockets+canvas.html
# [20:14] <divya> everyone
# [20:14] <divya> now caniuse data is available from the great caniuse bot.
# [20:14] <divya> HAVE FUNNN
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# [20:20] <vladikoff> caniuse webgl
# [20:20] <caniuse> vladikoff: You can use WebGL - 3D Canvas graphics with . http://sandbox.thewikies.com/caniuse/webgl.html
# [20:21] <smplstk> lol wat
# [20:21] <smplstk> broken.
# [20:21] <vladikoff> smplstk, I'm sorry :X
# [20:21] <divya> smplstk: no there is no browser support or smthing
# [20:21] <divya> yeah there isnt any
# [20:21] <divya> everything is partial
# [20:21] <smplstk> but the api doesn't return that? also - I forgot to remove the url, heh
# [20:22] <divya> api returns empty set
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# [20:22] <smplstk> let me see...
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# [20:23] <smplstk> caniuse json sockets canvas
# [20:23] <caniuse> smplstk: You can use JSON parsing, Web Sockets, and Canvas (basic support) with Firefox 6, and Chrome 14.
# [20:23] <smplstk> caniuse webgl
# [20:24] <smplstk> mwahaha
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# [20:24] <smplstk> done
# [20:24] <smplstk> ?cc
# [20:24] <bot-t> CASE CLOASED >: |
# [20:25] <vladikoff> so it doesn't say that I Can't use it?
# [20:25] <divya> :D
# [20:25] <divya> it could
# [20:25] <smplstk> do you want it to say that?
# [20:26] <smplstk> "x is currently not supported" ?
# [20:26] <smplstk> or 'fully'
# [20:26] <smplstk> "x is currently not fully supported" ?
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# [20:31] <smplstk> caniuse json canvas
# [20:31] <caniuse> smplstk: You can use JSON parsing, and Canvas (basic support) with Internet Explorer 9, Firefox 3.5, Chrome 4, Safari 4, Opera 10.5, iOS Safari 4.0-4.1, and Opera Mobile 10.
# [20:32] <smplstk> caniuse hamburger
# [20:32] <smplstk> caniuse webgl
# [20:32] <caniuse> smplstkWebGL - 3D Canvas graphics is not fully supported anywhere.
# [20:32] <smplstk> lol, space
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# [20:33] <smplstk> caniuse webgl
# [20:33] <caniuse> smplstk: WebGL - 3D Canvas graphics is not fully supported anywhere.
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# [20:44] <JonathanNeal> Could I get some help with a jsperf test? It's saying that Template is way too fast.
# [20:44] <JonathanNeal> http://jsperf.com/javascript-templating-shootoff-extended/21
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# [20:45] <JonathanNeal> Being that I wrote Template, I must presume the test is bogus, because it's saying Template is like 300% faster than the others. Can someone else run these tests or tell me what's wrong?
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# [20:47] <Jon47> JonathanNeal: how much user interaction in the browser, or other processes running on the computer, while the test are running would it take before the results get muddied?
# [20:48] <JonathanNeal> Jon47: i don't know, but the difference in the results is a little too big to be muddied by other processes.
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# [20:48] <nisci> is there a websocket irc up on the web anywhere? that's open to public?
# [20:49] <smplstk> nisci: do you mean just to chat on IRC?
# [20:49] <smplstk> or, like as an api for something?
# [20:49] <Octayn> JonathanNeal: first off, is your template actually working? I find that jsperf tests get a *lot* faster when they fail in some way
# [20:50] <smplstk> nisci: http://webchat.freenode.net/
# [20:50] <nisci> smplstk: well yes -- a working one, I'm curious to see an implementation of it with websocket api
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# [20:51] <nisci> that's made with comet, isn't it smplstk - not websocket
# [20:51] <smplstk> ooohes
# [20:51] <smplstk> yaidunno then
# [20:51] <Jon47> JonathanNeal: my results turned out the same as yours, on chrome and firefox, I don't know about most of those libs but the underscore.js seems to be done the right way
# [20:52] <nisci> Which leads me to another question -- why is there so much hesitance associated with it? Something I find extremely curious is wesocket examples don't remain up and alive for very long. Why do developers (the very same ones who write articles on websocket, with example codes) eventually put those examples down?
# [20:52] <divya> woah this is comprehensive Jon47
# [20:53] <Jon47> wrong Jon i think divya
# [20:53] <divya> oops
# [20:53] <Octayn> nisci: because the websocket protocol changed rapidly and not backwards-comaptibly
# [20:53] <divya> JonathanNeal: ^
# [20:53] <JonathanNeal> Octayn: yea it's passing.
# [20:53] <JonathanNeal> Jon47: me?
# [20:54] <Octayn> nisci: the hesitence is probably from "Browsers don't all support the same protocol" and "It's disabled sometimes" and "It's extremely new and not a lot of server-side support"
# [20:55] <Jon47> JonathanNeal: ya, divya was just complimenting the thoroughness of your test
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# [20:56] <JonathanNeal> I think the only reason my script is shining because the other templating scripts don't save their compiled template or their cached result.
# [20:56] <Octayn> Caching kinda defeats the purpose of the benchmark, no?
# [20:57] <nisci> Octayn: I wish they'd even leave up the faulty work-- even if not well-supported by some old browsers. Examples make the most compelling case to potential users. We want the web to move forward don't we, of course the stuff on the very edge can be error-prone, comes with the territory
# [20:57] <JonathanNeal> Octayn: precisely, except that al of those scripts cache the template first.
# [20:57] <JonathanNeal> *all
# [20:57] <Octayn> JonathanNeal: right, but not the rendered results I'd imagine (Unless I misread you)
# [20:57] <JonathanNeal> If you look at the preparation code, everyone prepares the template.
# [20:58] <JonathanNeal> In my script, the template is compiled into native js, I figured all of the others did it the same way.
# [20:59] <JonathanNeal> Everytime you run .render() it just keeps running that compiled function with the scope of the context.
# [20:59] <Octayn> As in it generates a function that fills the template?
# [20:59] <Octayn> Interesting approach
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# [21:00] <JonathanNeal> I doubt it could be that I'm avoiding regex (cause I am, using indexOf to walk the string instead).
# [21:01] <JonathanNeal> So is it just that the other templating languages don't compile their templates?
# [21:01] <Octayn> perhaps. I don't know how those other ones work, you'd have to look for yourself.
# [21:01] <Octayn> That is a *lot* faster than everything else though, it makes me think something is wrong somewhere
# [21:02] <JonathanNeal> Octayn: well you're where I'm at then.
# [21:02] <JonathanNeal> Confused and assuming something has to be wrong.
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# [21:05] <JonathanNeal> Jon47: what do you mean by "done the right way"?
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# [21:09] <Jon47> JonathanNeal: well you were asking if there were any issues with the way you coded the tests - I am not familiar with most of those libraries but I have used underscore.js before and the usage for that one seemed correct
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# [21:10] <jarek> I wonder how XCode 5 with look like
# [21:11] <jarek> I'm a bit afraid that Apple is going into the direction of Eclipse
# [21:11] <jarek> which is terribly bloated
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# [21:11] <jarek> they should have kept interface builder as separate app
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# [21:13] <jarek> XCode4 is probably the most bloated software that Apple has ever made
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# [21:14] <jarek> oops, wrong channel :D
# [21:14] <jarek> sorry
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# [21:27] <djcercon_> can anyone tell me how to clear the contents of an <article> tag?
# [21:29] <divya> document.querySelector('article').textContent = ''; ?
# [21:30] <jarek> or document.querySelector('article').innerHTML = '' if there are other tags inside it
# [21:31] <jarek> no, wait... textContent will actually work as well
# [21:32] <djcercon_> when you refer to document.querySelector, does that mean like a jQuery command to look up the element
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# [21:32] <jarek> djcercon_: it's standard DOM methods which works like $() from jQuery
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# [21:33] <jarek> but there are some caveats
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# [21:35] <djcercon_> divya & jarek, thanks for the tip! Got the effect I wanted!
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# [21:39] <tw2113> paul_irish_ ya around for a question?
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# [21:40] <tw2113> i'm here still
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# [21:40] <g105b> What's the correct attribute value to mark an input as checked? is it `checked="checked"`, `checked="true"` or just `checked`?
# [21:41] <skylamer`> just checked:)
# [21:42] <skylamer`> :checked pseudoclass also works in some caseces
# [21:42] <Ms2ger> The first or the last
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# [21:42] <Ms2ger> checked=true is wrong
# [21:42] <Ms2ger> Because it means the same as checked=false
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# [21:43] <jarek> `checked="checked"` looks silly, is it really standardized this way?
# [21:43] <Ms2ger> It's allowed
# [21:43] <Ms2ger> A legacy of SGML, in fact
# [21:43] <marcoos> it dates back to sgml, afaik
# [21:43] <marcoos> yup
# [21:43] <Ms2ger> Because SGML allowed to drop the *value* of an enumerated attribute, not its name
# [21:44] <Ms2ger> Er
# [21:44] <marcoos> ithe other way round
# [21:44] <Ms2ger> Other way around
# [21:44] <Ms2ger> Thanks, marcoos ;)
# [21:44] <marcoos> n/p Ms2ger :)
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# [21:44] <jarek> if contenteditable="true" is allowed, why checked="true" would be wrong?
# [21:44] <skylamer`> its different:)
# [21:44] <skylamer`> look specs and ull discover wonderful thingz
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# [21:45] <marcoos> checked="true" makes you think checked="false" will work :)
# [21:46] <marcoos> contenteditable uses "true" and "false", because that's how it was implemented in IE, and all other browsers copied this before it was standardized :/
# [21:47] <JonathanNeal> Okay, put my own test @ http://sandbox.thewikies.com/test/ using benchmark.js and i'm still getting those insane results.
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# [21:51] <dyamanoha> what's the firebug equiv of chrome?
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# [21:52] <tw2113> inspector
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# [21:53] <dyamanoha> Thanks
# [21:53] <dyamanoha> was looking in the chrome store
# [21:54] <tw2113> nope, built in tool
# [21:55] <dyamanoha> I can't seem to get the video tag to work with my avi
# [21:55] <dyamanoha> Not really seeing much info in this debugger as towh
# [21:55] <dyamanoha> to why*
# [21:55] <tw2113> make sure you're using the right supported formats and whatnot
# [21:55] <dyamanoha> I tried ogg and mp4
# [21:56] <dyamanoha> not really sure how to figure how the compression type of a video
# [21:56] <dyamanoha> maybe vlc will tell me?
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# [21:57] <dyamanoha> wtf is mpega
# [21:57] <dyamanoha> mpga*
# [21:58] <dyamanoha> ah
# [21:58] <dyamanoha> nvm
# [21:58] <dyamanoha> it's XVID
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# [22:02] <dyamanoha> tw2113, Is there any way to get errors as to why a particular video won't play? I converted the xvid to an mp4, the controls are showing up but the video is just white
# [22:03] <skylamer`> just look what types ur browser supports :)
# [22:03] <dyamanoha> http://pastebin.com/pfjquE84
# [22:03] <dyamanoha> it supports mp4
# [22:03] <dyamanoha> http://www.w3schools.com/html5/tryit.asp?filename=tryhtml5_video_bear
# [22:03] <dyamanoha> runs fine
# [22:03] <dyamanoha> but my own mp4 is refusing?
# [22:04] <marcocarag> mp4 is the container. the video itself could still be encoded in xvid
# [22:04] <dyamanoha> Maybe it's because I canceld the conversion process after 10 seconds
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# [22:04] <dyamanoha> hrm
# [22:04] <dyamanoha> the code got turned into
# [22:05] <dyamanoha> mp4a and mp4v
# [22:05] <dyamanoha> which is just mp4 right?
# [22:05] <Salvager> is there any SEO advantages in using HTML5 versus XHTML 1.0 or HTML4 ?
# [22:05] <tw2113> not that i can think of but you get the benefit of a warm feeling inside
# [22:05] <tw2113> equivalent to a big mug of hot cocoa
# [22:06] <marcoos> dyamanoha: try using http://www.mirovideoconverter.com/
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# [22:09] <jarek> Salvager: HTML5 has some more descriptive tags such as <article> or <section>, but I doubt that using it would have any impact on your search ranks
# [22:10] <Salvager> ok ty
# [22:11] <xp_prg> not sure anyone wants to help me with trivial newbie html5/css3/ ie problems, but my page looks great in chrome, but ie9 doesn't even read the css3 I have written between <style></style> outside of head
# [22:11] <xp_prg> any ideas what could be wrong?
# [22:11] <smplstk> xp_prg: are you using h5bp?
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# [22:11] <smplstk> if not you probabblly should
# [22:11] <smplstk> chances are there are some features you're using that aren't supported by IE9
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# [22:13] <jarek> xp_prg: <style></style> should be inside head
# [22:13] <Octayn> Is <style> even valid outside of <head>?
# [22:13] <Jon47> octayn yes it is
# [22:14] <Jon47> IE9 is a pretty decent browser
# [22:14] <jarek> even if it is valid, it still should be inside head :P
# [22:14] <Jon47> it ain't the worst thing you can do ;)
# [22:14] <smplstk> <style>, much like <script> can go anywhere you like
# [22:15] <Jon47> xp_prg: can we get a link to the page?
# [22:15] <jarek> why would I want my styles to show up on page?
# [22:15] <xp_prg> what is weird is I saved the page locally in a text file then opened it up and the css3 styles work!
# [22:16] <xp_prg> I can't give you a link because it is internal :(
# [22:16] <Ms2ger> <style></style> is only allowed outside head if it's a scoped style
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# [22:17] <xp_prg> what is a scoped style?
# [22:17] <jarek> xp_prg: it's a new thing in HTML5
# [22:17] <jarek> xp_prg: a style that is applied only to the certain part of the document
# [22:17] <xp_prg> anyway, is it probably because the style is not in the head causing the problem?
# [22:17] <jarek> xp_prg: but it sucks, so you should not both with it
# [22:18] <jarek> s/both/bother
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# [22:19] <jarek> xp_prg: why would want to place the style outside the head?
# [22:19] <xp_prg> don't ask
# [22:19] <jarek> xp_prg: it's a secret? :P
# [22:20] <jarek> s/would want/would you want
# [22:20] <jarek> sorry for typos
# [22:20] <Salvager> i want to learn html, do you guys recommending learning html5 right away, or xhtml or html4 first, then html5? etc, is there any good resources on learning html5 from scratch?
# [22:21] <divya> clear
# [22:21] <divya> err
# [22:21] <divya> caniuse
# [22:21] <marcoos> don't bother with xhtml
# [22:21] <divya> caniuse canvas
# [22:21] <xp_prg> so does anyone have any advice on my issue?
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# [22:21] <caniuse> divya: You can use Canvas (basic support) with Internet Explorer 9, Firefox 2, Chrome 4, Safari 3.1, Opera 9, iOS Safari 3.2, and Opera Mobile 10.
# [22:22] <tw2113> ooh, new bot
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# [22:22] <tw2113> Salvager, most of html5 stuff is valid html4 stuff already, it just has new added tags and deprecates some legacy stuff
# [22:23] <jarek> xp_prg: perhaps IE9 is loading old version of the page from cache?
# [22:23] <xp_prg> no this was the first time it ever loaded it
# [22:23] <jarek> xp_prg: or your style tag is malformed in such a way that IE9 can't understand it (but other browsers somehow managed to parse it)
# [22:23] <Salvager> ok ty
# [22:24] <xp_prg> jarek the style works when I view the page locally from a saved file!
# [22:24] <xp_prg> but not when I load it from the website proper
# [22:24] <dyamanoha> yeah... i tried downloading the demo video and it worked fine
# [22:24] <dyamanoha> vlc didn't convert it to 'proper' mp4, I guess?
# [22:24] <jarek> xp_prg: are you sure that IE9 gets the latest version of the page? Have you checked the 'view source' option?
# [22:24] <xp_prg> yes
# [22:24] <xp_prg> I did verify that
# [22:26] <marcoos> xp_prg: what's in that <style> element?
# [22:26] <jarek> Salvager: it depends what do you mean by HTML5
# [22:27] <jarek> Salvager: if you mean just markup, then you could start from HTML4 as HTML5 is a superset of it
# [22:27] <jarek> though it deprecates several tags
# [22:27] <dyamanoha> Video - MPEG 4 + AAC (MP4)
# [22:27] <xp_prg> http://pastebin.com/DHiMdUNm
# [22:28] <Salvager> yeah i just want to learn the markup, so i can do with html5 what is possible to do with html4 and xhtml
# [22:28] <dyamanoha> Video - Theora + Vorbis (OGG)?
# [22:28] <tw2113> forget xhtml Salvager
# [22:28] <tw2113> it's not going anywhere
# [22:29] <Salvager> well its more, there aint so many resources on learning html5 from scratch, so il either learn html4 or xhtml first
# [22:29] <jarek> Salvager: you can learn HTML5 markup in like 1-3 days, check http://html5doctor.com/element-index/?utm_source=html5weekly&utm_medium=email
# [22:29] <Salvager> so it is better to learn html4 first than xhtml?
# [22:29] <jarek> Salvager: also, Mozilla has a nice reference
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# [22:29] <tw2113> there is a ton of html5 resources by now
# [22:29] <tw2113> it's been hyped for a year
# [22:29] <jarek> Salvager: but when I was starting with web development, I did not actually 'learn' html
# [22:30] <tw2113> if not longer
# [22:30] <jarek> Salvager: when I needed to markup something, I was just googling the correct tag :)
# [22:30] <jarek> actually I still don't know many tags
# [22:30] <Salvager> hehe nice :) ive been doing that too a bit with html4
# [22:30] <Salvager> but i though i would read a book that took me through html and css and maybe some javascript
# [22:31] <tw2113> books get outdated too fast
# [22:31] <Salvager> yeah, tho i like books :) they usually explains things quite book
# [22:31] <Salvager> good*
# [22:31] <tw2113> http://diveintohtml5.info/
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# [22:31] <xp_prg> so does that link to my style entries help?
# [22:31] <marcoos> xp_prg: your css, while a bit invalid, looks okayish, there must be something else wrong with your page
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# [22:32] <xp_prg> invalid?
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# [22:32] <marcoos> invalid as in "w3c validator doesn't like it" :)
# [22:32] <Salvager> tw2113, ty for the link, allready looked at that site tho, but seems its more for something who allready knows html
# [22:32] <tw2113> ?g htmldog
# [22:32] <bot-t> tw2113, HTML and CSS Tutorials, References, and Articles | HTML Dog - http://htmldog.com/
# [22:33] <tw2113> ?g mdn
# [22:33] <bot-t> tw2113, Mozilla Developer Network - https://developer.mozilla.org/
# [22:33] <Salvager> ty
# [22:33] <marcoos> Salvager: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/learn/html
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# [22:34] <Salvager> as far as i can understand you can do xhtml in html5 or something like that? is that true?
# [22:34] <jarek> xp_prg: try using some simpler style, e.g. "* { background: red;}", if it's not working as well then you know the problem lies somewhere else
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# [22:35] <Salvager> ty for all the links :)
# [22:35] <jarek> Salvager: yes, there is XHTML5 which is HTML5 written according to XML rules and send with xml mime type
# [22:35] <jarek> Salvager: but the general trend in W3C is to move away from XML
# [22:36] <jarek> Salvager: so I would not use XHTML5 in my projects because it might be not compatible with new APIs
# [22:37] <Salvager> ok thanks alot for the help :)
# [22:37] <xp_prg> dumb question: what are the approaches to getting html5/css3 to work cross browsers when you start seeing problems, is it like code where you just comment stuff out until something works, then move forward from there?
# [22:38] <xp_prg> just curious
# [22:38] <marcoos> validate your html first
# [22:38] <marcoos> validating css might be tricky, as most css these days uses vendor prefixed stuff
# [22:38] <xp_prg> I am on redhat what is the best validator to use?
# [22:38] <Octayn> xp_prg: validator.w3.org
# [22:38] <marcoos> validator.w3.org / validator.nu
# [22:38] <xp_prg> my site is not publicly accessible
# [22:39] <Octayn> It doesn't have to be
# [22:39] <xp_prg> oh ok
# [22:39] <jarek> xp_prg: Red Hat? How old is that thing?
# [22:39] <marcoos> you can paste your code into th alidator
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# [22:39] <xp_prg> I meant centos
# [22:39] <marcoos> *the validator
# [22:39] <Octayn> and also upload files
# [22:39] <xp_prg> oh ok cool
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# [22:54] <grantg> http://www.php.net/manual/en/v8js.examples.php
# [22:54] <grantg> wat
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# [23:26] <daleharvey> xp_prg: its mostly just practice, first you want to narrow the bug down to its smallest parts
# [23:27] <daleharvey> then after a while you just begin knowing where the bugs are and to not code them in the first place
# [23:27] <daleharvey> but dont just add stuff until it kinda starts working
# [23:27] <daleharvey> and as for validation, you mostly only care about things like unclosed tags etc
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# [23:29] <xp_prg> thanks harvey of the dale
# [23:31] <Jon47> caniuse encodeURIComponent
# [23:32] <Jon47> i'll take that as a yes
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The end :)