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  1. # Session Start: Mon Jun 01 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #microformats
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  7. # [00:30] <elf-pavlik> tantek, looking at http://microformats.org/wiki/h-listing#Properties
  8. # [00:30] <elf-pavlik> "p-action: text, optional, one of the following values
  9. # [00:30] <elf-pavlik> sell, rent, trade, meet, announce, offer, wanted, event, service"
  10. # [00:30] <elf-pavlik> how does microformat vocabulary manages such enumerations?
  11. # [00:32] <elf-pavlik> also how one can add more verbs e.g. like, eat, drink, cook, transport, sleep etc.
  12. # [00:32] <elf-pavlik> http://aaronparecki.com/metrics
  13. # [00:36] <elf-pavlik> some more examples of "action": (verb) https://developer.github.com/v3/activity/events/types/
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  15. # [00:38] <elf-pavlik> non trivial acitons in: https://developer.github.com/v3/activity/events/types/#issuesevent & https://developer.github.com/v3/activity/events/types/#pullrequestevent
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  18. # [00:40] * elf-pavlik bootstraps personal ActivityStream2.0 by PESOS github https://github.com/elf-pavlik?tab=activity
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  51. # [07:39] <Loqi> [[link-preview-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=link-preview-brainstorming&diff=65009&oldid=64911&rcid=101386 * Tantek * (+106) /* proposals */ expand proposal to include specific other types of body objects
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  71. # Session Close: Mon Jun 01 12:40:22 2015
  72. #
  73. # Session Start: Mon Jun 01 12:40:22 2015
  74. # Session Ident: #microformats
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  78. # [12:41] * Topic is 'http://microformats.org/wiki Logs: http://logbot.glob.com.au/?c=freenode%23microformats&s=today'
  79. # [12:41] * Set by tantek!~tantek@50-0-164-83.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net on Mon Aug 12 00:38:23
  80. # [12:41] -ChanServ- [#microformats] Welcome to #microformats. Logs at http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/microformats
  81. # [12:41] #microformats url is http://microformats.org
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  95. # [14:44] <Loqi> [[microformats2-parsing-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats2-parsing-brainstorming&diff=65010&oldid=65001&rcid=101387 * GlennJones * (+814) /* feedback on more rel info */
  96. # [14:50] <glennjones> tantek: KevinMarks: Adding a couple comments to rel-urls brainstroming wiki page, about inconsistent structure and a new property for rel=tag which is the last path segment
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  99. # [15:47] <Loqi> [[microformats2-parsing]] M http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats2-parsing&diff=65011&oldid=64994&rcid=101388 * GlennJones * (-1) /* corrected rel parse examples */
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  121. # [18:51] <@tantek> glennjones: taking a look at the rel-urls stuff now
  122. # [19:01] <@tantek> !tell glennjones no need to return last path segment of the URL, because the URL is already there - and that's just a library/framework utility function to get the last path segment of a URL
  123. # [19:01] <Loqi> Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
  124. # [19:01] <@tantek> the other questions didn't really make sense
  125. # [19:02] <@tantek> and thanks for the editorial fix to the parsing spec!
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  127. # [19:14] <glennjones> tantek: the logic for rel-urls seems to read that all rels are added so http://testrunner-47055.onmodulus.net/run/microformats-node/microformats-v2/rel/rel-urls/ is correct with 5 items in rel-urls and http://testrunner-47055.onmodulus.net/run/mf2py/microformats-v2/rel/rel-urls/ is wrong with 4 items. Have I understood the logic correctly?
  128. # [19:14] <Loqi> glennjones: tantek left you a message 13 minutes ago: no need to return last path segment of the URL, because the URL is already there - and that's just a library/framework utility function to get the last path segment of a URL
  129. # [19:18] <@tantek> glennjones: I'm having trouble seeing the differences in those two long pages
  130. # [19:19] <@tantek> oh I see it now - the mf2py parser forgot to put the "alternate" into the rel-urls collection
  131. # [19:20] <@tantek> yes - 5 looks correct - looks like a bug in the mf2py parser implementation of rel-urls
  132. # [19:20] <@tantek> might want to ping KevinMarks since that's his code I'm pretty sure
  133. # [19:20] <Loqi> [@jgarber] @helenvholmes If you don’t want to mess with RSS, you can use microformats to mark up your pages. http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2 (http://twtr.io/104Y5w73N1b)
  134. # [19:20] * Quits: @adactio (~adactio@212.42.170.121) (Quit: adactio)
  135. # [19:21] <Loqi> [@jgarber] @helenvholmes Using some common class names, you can add semantics to your content. For instance, a blog post: http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry (http://twtr.io/104Y96K3Q14)
  136. # [19:22] <glennjones> Yes, I was just wonder if mf2py was correct, but the way I read the logic on the parsing page it should include the "alternate"
  137. # [19:23] <Loqi> [@jgarber] @helenvholmes Yeah, microformats are great. Low barrier to entry (it’s HTML!) and very powerful. I’m happy to walk you through any of it. (http://twtr.io/104YJdvmmy8)
  138. # [19:27] <@tantek> jgarber++
  139. # [19:27] <Loqi> jgarber has 2 karma
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  146. # [20:02] <Loqi> [@pvestatesca] Solano Land Trust has great nature events year-round. Learn more here: http://www.solanolandtrust.org/CalendarList.aspx?hCalendar=1 (http://twtr.io/104akR2i7Sw)
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  159. # [21:36] <KevinMarks> I left alternates out of rel-urls because they were left out of rels
  160. # [21:37] <KevinMarks> my assumption was that you'd look up the rel you were interested in, then get more info about each URL represented
  161. # [21:37] <KevinMarks> I can put the redundant alternate in rel-urls, but then we should put it in rels as well
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  165. # [22:07] <Loqi> [[microformats2-parsing-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats2-parsing-brainstorming&diff=65012&oldid=65010&rcid=101389 * Kevin Marks * (+764) /* feedback on more rel info */ rel-urls thinking
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  167. # [22:19] <gRegorLove> Catching up on rel-urls...
  168. # [22:20] <gRegorLove> Is the main reason to not break backwards compatibility? The rel-alternates hash has array keys already, but the other rels don't
  169. # [22:23] <KevinMarks> I found that looking up by rel and walking the list of urls, then getting more info if needed worked well
  170. # [22:26] <KevinMarks> the multiple xfn example shows this: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-brainstorming#xfn
  171. # [22:35] <gRegorLove> And having rels: coworker: url: would break consumers that aren't expecting the 'url' key, but just the actual url
  172. # [22:35] <gRegorLove> Hm
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  176. # [22:43] <KevinMarks> I did consider adding another magic thing like alternates for xfn, but then I'd need another one for enclosures and so on
  177. # [22:43] <KevinMarks> rel-urls was the compromise I came up with
  178. # [22:46] <gRegorLove> So rels should still be the first place to look and if you need more info, rel-urls.
  179. # [22:46] <gRegorLove> With the exception of rel-alternates, which would have the extra info in both spots
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  185. # [23:11] <KevinMarks> yeah, which is why i think alternates shouldn't be in both, or if it is should eb consistent
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  188. # [23:18] <Loqi> [@CairineGreen] @AnalyseVic here are tags: Tags: fluid-layout, responsive-layout, accessibility-ready, translation-ready, microformats, rtl-language-support (http://twtr.io/104tTPDehS9)
  189. # [23:20] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com)
  190. # [23:20] * ChanServ sets mode: +o tantek
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  192. # [23:20] * Quits: twisted` (sid6794@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-imeaesofsrkpfndz) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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  194. # [23:22] <@tantek> alternates was separate only because it needed more information
  195. # [23:23] <@tantek> that is - for any alternate to be useful you need more information, so it didn't make sense in the simple "rels" collection
  196. # [23:23] <@tantek> the goal was to keep the rels collection simple
  197. # [23:23] <@tantek> whereas with rel-urls, the goals was to include all the information necessary for all kinds of use-cases of various rels
  198. # [23:23] <@tantek> thus it makes sense to include alternate in there along with all other rels
  199. # [23:24] <KevinMarks> right, but as yu have written it there is no 'alternate' in rels but there is in rel-urls
  200. # [23:24] <@tantek> that's the point
  201. # [23:24] <@tantek> 'alternate' doesn't make sense in rels because all use-cases for it require more information
  202. # [23:24] <@tantek> whereas 'alternate' *does* make sense in rel-urls because all the information for them is provided there
  203. # [23:24] <KevinMarks> but given we have alternates, why put it in rel-rls too?
  204. # [23:25] <KevinMarks> s/rel-rls/rel-urls/
  205. # [23:25] <Loqi> KevinMarks meant to say: but given we have alternates, why put it in rel-urls too?
  206. # [23:25] <@tantek> I'd be ok with dropping 'alternates' collection as I don't know of any current consuming code
  207. # [23:26] <@tantek> KevinMarks: because the method of look-up in rel-urls makes more sense (is easier) than the way the current alternates collection works
  208. # [23:26] <@tantek> I would expect anyone actually looking for alternates to now use the rel-urls map
  209. # [23:27] <KevinMarks> except that I see rels as provdidng the keys and rel-urls the details
  210. # [23:27] <KevinMarks> no, because they'd have to walk it
  211. # [23:27] <@tantek> right, so if we drop 'alternates' then we must add them, even as just urls, to rels
  212. # [23:27] <@tantek> point being, for now, it makes sense to have the alternates in rel-urls
  213. # [23:28] <@tantek> it's separate issue to consider dropping alternates and along with that change, adding alternate urls to rels
  214. # [23:28] <KevinMarks> if ti does, then we should have alternate in rels too
  215. # [23:28] <@tantek> that would make sense if we dropped 'alternates'
  216. # [23:28] <@tantek> otherwise it doesn't make sense
  217. # [23:29] <@tantek> because anyone actually looking for a specific alternate (which all use-cases do) would use the alternates collection currently
  218. # [23:29] <KevinMarks> I'm saying it doesn't make sense to have a url in rel-urls that isn't in rels
  219. # [23:29] <@tantek> but that's more work for everyone, so it doesn't make sense
  220. # [23:30] <@tantek> it's easier to just put all the rel urls into rel-urls, than have to explain why they are not all in there
  221. # [23:30] <@tantek> less code too
  222. # [23:30] <@tantek> principle of least surprise etc.
  223. # [23:30] <@tantek> !tell aaronpk does your indie reader use mf2 parsing to look for alternates?
  224. # [23:30] <Loqi> Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
  225. # [23:31] <KevinMarks> it doesn't make sense to put the alternate urls in rel-urls without putting them un rels
  226. # [23:32] * Joins: twisted` (sid6794@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pzikjsxkkmbfvgtv)
  227. # [23:32] <@tantek> of course it does. rel-urls is new, and thus it makes sense to get it right.
  228. # [23:32] <@tantek> it's less code to put all the rel urls into rel-urls
  229. # [23:32] <@tantek> those two are sufficient reasons to do so
  230. # [23:33] <@tantek> to put rel alternate urls into rel-urls, regardless of any other conditions
  231. # [23:33] <KevinMarks> I've written the code, you haven't. its the same amount, it just depends where the else goes
  232. # [23:34] <@tantek> well I wrote the pseudo-code in the spec for it ;)
  233. # [23:34] <@tantek> seemed simpler
  234. # [23:38] <Loqi> [[microformats2-parsing]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats2-parsing&diff=65013&oldid=65011&rcid=101390 * Kevin Marks * (+0) /* parse a hyperlink element for rel microformats */ alternates not in rel-urls
  235. # [23:39] <KevinMarks> theres the diff
  236. # [23:39] <@tantek> what do other folks think? shall we include alternates in the "rels" collection and drop "alternates"?
  237. # [23:39] <KevinMarks> it is actually simpler to make sense of as the alternates case is truly separate
  238. # [23:39] <@tantek> KevinMarks: I think you screwed up a list nesting level :P
  239. # [23:40] <KevinMarks> oh yes
  240. # [23:40] <@tantek> but as glennjones was pointing out, it makes the parsed output more confusing
  241. # [23:40] <@tantek> which is why I'm now advocating dropping "alternates" as the path forward
  242. # [23:40] <@tantek> simplifying while we can
  243. # [23:41] * Joins: andicascadesf (~andicasca@104-244-27-188.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net)
  244. # [23:41] <Loqi> [[microformats2-parsing]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats2-parsing&diff=65014&oldid=65013&rcid=101391 * Kevin Marks * (+8) /* parse a hyperlink element for rel microformats */ fix nesting
  245. # [23:41] <KevinMarks> there's no command-] for wikicode
  246. # [23:43] <@tantek> I'd rather go for simplifying KevinMarks - based on glennjones feedback
  247. # [23:43] <KevinMarks> I'm happy with that too
  248. # [23:48] <@tantek> alright, I'm going to revert those change then - as I'd rather have the intended rel-urls functionality be in the spec
  249. # [23:48] <@tantek> s/change/changes
  250. # [23:48] <Loqi> tantek meant to say: alright, I'm going to revert those changes then - as I'd rather have the intended rel-urls functionality be in the spec
  251. # [23:48] <Loqi> [[microformats2-parsing]] M http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats2-parsing&diff=65015&oldid=65014&rcid=101392 * Tantek * (-8) Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]] ([[User talk:Kevin Marks|Talk]]) to last version by [[User:GlennJones|GlennJones]]
  252. # [23:54] <Loqi> [[microformats2-parsing]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats2-parsing&diff=65017&oldid=65015&rcid=101394 * Tantek * (+229) add warnings about dropping alternates, use rel-urls instead
  253. # [23:55] <@tantek> KevinMarks: ok I've captured the intended changes - take a look: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing#parse_a_hyperlink_element_for_rel_microformats
  254. # Session Close: Tue Jun 02 00:00:00 2015

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