/irc-logs / freenode / #microformats / 2015-10-19 / end

Options:

Previous day, Next day

  1. # Session Start: Mon Oct 19 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #microformats
  3. # [00:17] * Quits: elf-pavlik (~elf-pavli@lorea/elf) (Quit: Leaving)
  4. # [00:50] * Joins: fuzzyhorns (~fuzzyhorn@73.38.57.191)
  5. # [01:04] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@107-1-116-254-ip-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  6. # [01:04] * ChanServ sets mode: +o tantek
  7. # [01:47] * Quits: @tantek (~tantek@107-1-116-254-ip-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Quit: tantek)
  8. # [02:06] * Quits: fuzzyhorns (~fuzzyhorn@73.38.57.191) (Remote host closed the connection)
  9. # [02:27] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-190.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com)
  10. # [02:27] * ChanServ sets mode: +o tantek
  11. # [03:07] * Joins: fuzzyhorns (~fuzzyhorn@73.38.57.191)
  12. # [03:23] * Quits: fuzzyhorns (~fuzzyhorn@73.38.57.191) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  13. # [03:32] <Loqi> [[h2vx]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=h2vx&diff=65256&oldid=65253&rcid=101643 * Tantek * (+48) /* issues */ subhead for newest issues
  14. # [03:37] <Loqi> [[h2vx]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=h2vx&diff=65257&oldid=65256&rcid=101644 * Tantek * (+212) /* Fatal error Call-time pass-by-reference */ github issue, noting which line of code is causing the rror
  15. # [03:38] <Loqi> [[h2vx]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=h2vx&diff=65258&oldid=65257&rcid=101645 * Tantek * (+11) /* Fatal error Call-time pass-by-reference */ typo, sign
  16. # [04:08] <Loqi> [[h2vx]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=h2vx&diff=65259&oldid=65258&rcid=101646 * Tantek * (+268) /* issues */ Fatal error Call-time pass-by-reference resolved
  17. # [04:19] * Quits: @tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-190.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com) (Quit: tantek)
  18. # [04:32] * Joins: fuzzyhorns (~fuzzyhorn@73.38.57.191)
  19. # [04:39] * Quits: fuzzyhorns (~fuzzyhorn@73.38.57.191) (Remote host closed the connection)
  20. # [04:39] * Joins: fuzzyhorns (~fuzzyhorn@73.38.57.191)
  21. # [04:43] * Quits: fuzzyhorns (~fuzzyhorn@73.38.57.191) (Remote host closed the connection)
  22. # [05:43] * Joins: fuzzyhorns (~fuzzyhorn@73.38.57.191)
  23. # [09:23] * Joins: MeanderingCode (~Meanderin@palantir.aetherislands.net)
  24. # [09:35] * Quits: MeanderingCode (~Meanderin@palantir.aetherislands.net) (Quit: Off the grid)
  25. # [09:35] * Joins: MeanderingCode (~Meanderin@palantir.aetherislands.net)
  26. # [10:07] * Joins: pfefferle (~pfefferle@213.144.11.130)
  27. # [10:58] * Quits: j4y_funabashi (~j4y_funab@82.109.33.252) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  28. # [11:35] * Joins: adactio (~adactio@212.42.170.121)
  29. # [11:35] * ChanServ sets mode: +o adactio
  30. # [11:59] * Joins: behind_you (~Erkan_Yil@dslb-188-098-064-087.188.098.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
  31. # [12:00] * behind_you is now known as Erkan_Yilmaz
  32. # [12:00] * Quits: Erkan_Yilmaz (~Erkan_Yil@dslb-188-098-064-087.188.098.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Changing host)
  33. # [12:00] * Joins: Erkan_Yilmaz (~Erkan_Yil@wikimedia/Erkan-Yilmaz)
  34. # [12:17] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-190.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com)
  35. # [12:17] * ChanServ sets mode: +o tantek
  36. # [12:34] * Quits: @tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-190.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com) (Quit: tantek)
  37. # [12:40] * Quits: joskar (~joskar@joskar.ros.sgsnet.se) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  38. # [12:42] * Joins: joskar (~joskar@joskar.ros.sgsnet.se)
  39. # [12:51] * Joins: glennjones (~glennjone@cpc83567-brig19-2-0-cust736.3-3.cable.virginm.net)
  40. # [12:52] * Quits: glennjones (~glennjone@cpc83567-brig19-2-0-cust736.3-3.cable.virginm.net) (Client Quit)
  41. # [12:53] * Quits: pfefferle (~pfefferle@213.144.11.130) (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  42. # [14:02] * Joins: pfefferle (~pfefferle@213.144.11.130)
  43. # [14:45] * Quits: Zegnat (~zegnat@2a00:d0c0:200:0:b9:1a:9c2a:1) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  44. # [14:45] * Joins: Zegnat (~zegnat@elnath.uberspace.de)
  45. # [14:47] * Joins: eschnou (~eschnou@91.180.219.168)
  46. # [15:03] * Quits: fuzzyhorns (~fuzzyhorn@73.38.57.191) (Remote host closed the connection)
  47. # [15:03] * Joins: fuzzyhorns (~fuzzyhorn@73.38.57.191)
  48. # [15:23] * Quits: fuzzyhorns (~fuzzyhorn@73.38.57.191) (Remote host closed the connection)
  49. # [15:45] * Joins: pfefferl_ (~pfefferle@213.144.11.130)
  50. # [15:45] * Joins: TallTed (~Thud@c-98-216-254-6.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
  51. # [15:48] * Quits: pfefferle (~pfefferle@213.144.11.130) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  52. # [16:11] * Joins: Soopaman (~soopaman@198.16.243.21)
  53. # [16:24] * Joins: fuzzyhorns (~fuzzyhorn@73.38.57.191)
  54. # [16:56] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-190.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com)
  55. # [16:56] * ChanServ sets mode: +o tantek
  56. # [17:14] * Quits: Soopaman (~soopaman@198.16.243.21) (Quit: Leaving.)
  57. # [17:25] * Joins: Soopaman (~soopaman@198.16.243.21)
  58. # [17:52] * Quits: eschnou (~eschnou@91.180.219.168) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  59. # [18:03] * Quits: @tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-190.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  60. # [18:13] * Quits: pfefferl_ (~pfefferle@213.144.11.130) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
  61. # [18:16] * Quits: @adactio (~adactio@212.42.170.121) (Quit: adactio)
  62. # [18:28] * Quits: Zegnat (~zegnat@elnath.uberspace.de) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  63. # [18:29] * Quits: Hixie (~ianh@178.255.149.100) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  64. # [18:30] * Joins: Hixie (~ianh@178.255.149.100)
  65. # [18:32] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-190.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com)
  66. # [18:32] * ChanServ sets mode: +o tantek
  67. # [18:32] * Joins: Zegnat (~zegnat@elnath.uberspace.de)
  68. # [18:35] * Quits: KartikPrabhu (~kartik@99-133-145-14.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  69. # [19:00] <Loqi> [@Jeremy_Arent] RT @a2exandre: Oups... #microformats https://twitter.com/a2exandre/status/648899229373591552/photo/1 (http://twtr.io/156ZrB9keyx)
  70. # [19:28] * Joins: gRegorLove (~me@c-73-140-189-21.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  71. # [19:33] * Quits: Soopaman (~soopaman@198.16.243.21) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  72. # [19:42] * Joins: Soopaman (~soopaman@198.16.243.21)
  73. # [19:42] * Quits: Soopaman (~soopaman@198.16.243.21) (Max SendQ exceeded)
  74. # [19:42] * Joins: Soopaman (~soopaman@198.16.243.21)
  75. # [19:56] * Joins: eschnou (~eschnou@245.87-240-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
  76. # [20:03] * Quits: eschnou (~eschnou@245.87-240-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  77. # [20:20] * Joins: KartikPrabhu (~kartik@128.135.100.107)
  78. # [20:33] * Joins: eschnou (~eschnou@245.87-240-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
  79. # [21:37] * Quits: nitot (~nitot@210.209.24.109.rev.sfr.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  80. # [21:38] * Quits: eschnou (~eschnou@245.87-240-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  81. # [21:43] * Joins: eschnou (~eschnou@245.87-240-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
  82. # [21:55] <@tantek> one big challenge for h-entry is - how do we allow/encourage innovation with / on top of it, without it just becoming a dumping ground for dozens of new properties?
  83. # [22:01] <aaronpk> to avoid needing to add new properties for different kinds of objects, you'd have to have a way for h-entry to have a place to put unknown/new objects
  84. # [22:01] <aaronpk> like how attachments work in email
  85. # [22:03] <aaronpk> for example, I want to publish my bike rides, which have a set of properties like "duration" and "average speed" not to mention the actual route data with all the location points.
  86. # [22:03] <aaronpk> I could define a new object, h-x-route and say that this object has all these properties
  87. # [22:03] <@tantek> all microformats allow arbitrary new objects - they just go into the children collection
  88. # [22:03] <@tantek> there is no need for new properties for new nested objects
  89. # [22:04] <aaronpk> aha there is children! I kind of forgot about that!
  90. # [22:04] <@tantek> children is the trivial modularity extension mechanism built-into all microformats
  91. # [22:04] <aaronpk> maybe that's good enough then
  92. # [22:04] <@tantek> thus leaving you to "just" come up with figuring out what your new object needs (if you even need one), and then marking up your content as such
  93. # [22:05] <aaronpk> the post-type-discovery algorithm changes slightly then, right?
  94. # [22:06] <aaronpk> since it would need to look at what is in the children
  95. # [22:06] <@tantek> it would when such things become a practice
  96. # [22:06] <aaronpk> consumers of an h-feed that know how to render routes would just need to look for whether there is an h-x-route object as one of the children of the h-entry
  97. # [22:06] <aaronpk> then a reader could show a little map and stuff
  98. # [22:07] <@tantek> which then begs the question - does post type discovery itself need to have a core and have modularity for others to extend it?
  99. # [22:07] <aaronpk> hm yeah it would
  100. # [22:08] <@tantek> since you're running into a real world itch/example for that, could you add that to https://indiewebcamp.com/post-type-discovery#Issues ?
  101. # [22:09] * Joins: nitot (~nitot@210.209.24.109.rev.sfr.net)
  102. # [22:13] * Quits: eschnou (~eschnou@245.87-240-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  103. # [22:16] * Joins: eschnou (~eschnou@245.87-240-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
  104. # [22:17] <aaronpk> done
  105. # [22:20] <@tantek> thanks!
  106. # [22:22] <@tantek> interesting, "feed" was dropped from HTML5's explicit lst of rel values
  107. # [22:27] * Quits: eschnou (~eschnou@245.87-240-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  108. # [22:29] * Joins: eschnou (~eschnou@245.87-240-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
  109. # [22:30] * aaronpk reconsiders his whole internal storage format and thinks about using "children" instead
  110. # [22:31] <@tantek> would doing so simplify your storage and your code?
  111. # [22:31] <aaronpk> i think it's about equivalent
  112. # [22:32] <aaronpk> right now i'm storing the route object on a property called "route" internally. when I want to use it, I check "is there a value for the route property" and then use it
  113. # [22:32] <aaronpk> if I switch, the "is there a route" would have to change to iterate over the children and look for an "h-route" object there
  114. # [22:33] <aaronpk> this may be a problem if I want to store more than one object of the same type that mean different things, like a start and end location (contrived example)
  115. # [22:33] <@tantek> aaronpk: did you look at / consider any of the previous "directons" research / brainstorming? http://microformats.org/wiki/directions
  116. # [22:33] <aaronpk> not sure that's actually a problem yet
  117. # [22:33] <aaronpk> yeah this isn't directions at all
  118. # [22:33] <@tantek> or is "route" different enough from "directions" that you think it deserves different consideration? if so, how are they different?
  119. # [22:33] <@tantek> they seem similar
  120. # [22:33] * Quits: nitot (~nitot@210.209.24.109.rev.sfr.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  121. # [22:34] <aaronpk> this is what I mean by a "route" http://aaronparecki.com/metrics/2015/10/19/065451/
  122. # [22:34] <@tantek> aaronpk, perhaps start a page http://microformats.org/wiki/route similar to http://microformats.org/wiki/directions, along with stubs for route-examples, route-formats, route-brainstorming?
  123. # [22:34] <aaronpk> also http://aaronparecki.com/metrics/2015/09/01/063757/
  124. # [22:34] <aaronpk> a run with a photo http://aaronparecki.com/metrics/2014/11/06/064017/
  125. # [22:35] <@tantek> hmm - the picture looks like directions summary to me
  126. # [22:35] <@tantek> as does distance
  127. # [22:35] <@tantek> the duration is presumably *actual* instead of *estimated*
  128. # [22:35] <@tantek> the method of transport (bike vs walk vs car) is also typically published in directions (e.g. google maps)
  129. # [22:35] <aaronpk> it's not really directions summary since it's actual location traveled rather than planned, and i would also never describe the route in words used to describe directions
  130. # [22:36] <@tantek> seems like the text equivalent for the image could describe the route in words similar to those used in directions
  131. # [22:36] <@tantek> and would be useful for accessibility, search indexing etc.
  132. # [22:36] * @tantek tries to avoid "would be nice" :)
  133. # [22:37] <aaronpk> also the data I actually have is a bunch of lat/lng, not words
  134. # [22:38] <@tantek> "head east south east from ???,??? lat long"
  135. # [22:38] <@tantek> "turn left at ???,??? lat long"
  136. # [22:38] <@tantek> etc. :)
  137. # [22:38] <aaronpk> but that's not the data i have
  138. # [22:38] <@tantek> sure looks like it from the map
  139. # [22:39] <aaronpk> no it's literally a bunch of lat/lng locations
  140. # [22:39] <@tantek> with a start and stop
  141. # [22:39] <aaronpk> and timestamps for each location
  142. # [22:39] <@tantek> that seems like enough to render such text as a textual summary
  143. # [22:39] <aaronpk> it's not even "turn left at..." it would be "turned left at ..." since it happened in the past and is not an instruction
  144. # [22:39] <@tantek> yes!
  145. # [22:39] <aaronpk> turning that into text is harder than you'd think
  146. # [22:40] <aaronpk> also would likely be completely unusuable in text form
  147. # [22:40] <@tantek> I'll take your word for the difficulty.
  148. # [22:40] <aaronpk> am i going to have to actually do this to prove a point?
  149. # [22:40] * Quits: eschnou (~eschnou@245.87-240-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  150. # [22:40] <@tantek> no, I realize that geocoding from lat long to streetnames is a non-trivial problem that people have to call pay-for APIs to do :/
  151. # [22:41] <@tantek> was just hoping you'd already figured that out somehow
  152. # [22:41] <aaronpk> ever since simplegeo shut down i haven't found a good lat/lng to street intersection api
  153. # [22:41] <@tantek> given being at ESRI
  154. # [22:41] <@tantek> dang
  155. # [22:41] <aaronpk> geonames is close, (us only) but isn't as good as simplegeo
  156. # [22:41] <@tantek> what about open street maps? tommorris ?
  157. # [22:41] <aaronpk> ironically simplegeo built that API because I asked them to
  158. # [22:41] <aaronpk> geonames uses OSM data
  159. # [22:42] * Joins: nitot (~nitot@210.209.24.109.rev.sfr.net)
  160. # [22:42] <@tantek> ok, for now can you at least start http://microformats.org/wiki/route-examples and cite your published examples that you linked above?
  161. # [22:43] <aaronpk> even if there were a good API for that, there's still the problem of describing the route as I run through the park where there are no street names and the path wanders around
  162. # [22:44] <tommorris> tantek: OSM has Nominatim for reverse geocoding and there are open source routing engines on top of OSM data (have seen them support cars, cycles, walking, even horse riding)
  163. # [22:44] <aaronpk> is "trip" a better name for it?
  164. # [22:44] <@tantek> or is a route an optional object of a trip?
  165. # [22:44] <aaronpk> i've never been quite satisfied with the term "route"
  166. # [22:44] * Joins: eschnou (~eschnou@245.87-240-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
  167. # [22:44] <@tantek> thinking of the dopplr use of "trip"
  168. # [22:45] <aaronpk> i do have trips without routes (many plane flights)
  169. # [22:45] <@tantek> route makes sense in the way you're using it with all the coordinates
  170. # [22:45] <tommorris> As for a route through a park: you are welcome to add footpaths to OSM :) and just take a GPX and turn it into geoJSON and render that
  171. # [22:45] <@tantek> right!
  172. # [22:45] <tommorris> If the GPX is too large, run a simplification algorithm over it
  173. # [22:45] <aaronpk> i just think a route doesn't make sense to have timing information necessarily, nor does it convey that it is a thing that happened at a single point in the past
  174. # [22:47] * Quits: nitot (~nitot@210.209.24.109.rev.sfr.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  175. # [22:47] <tommorris> Class object distinction between the route and the individual run/walk/cycle through it?
  176. # [22:47] <@tantek> you can brainstorm the name / bikeshed later too - ok to have a page like route-examples and then come up with h-somethingelse later
  177. # [22:47] <@tantek> tommorris: hence why I thought of directions
  178. # [22:47] <@tantek> since directions clearly have a route
  179. # [22:48] <tommorris> So directions would be defined by the fact it is ordered?
  180. # [22:49] <tommorris> An ordered list almost... <ol> :)
  181. # [22:49] <tommorris> <ol>é! <ol>é!
  182. # [22:50] <@tantek> tommorris: see and feel free to expand upon http://microformats.org/wiki/directions
  183. # [22:51] <tommorris> I kinda have to go and work dinner off by engaging in directed travel along a route...
  184. # [23:14] * Quits: TallTed (~Thud@c-98-216-254-6.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
  185. # [23:27] * Quits: eschnou (~eschnou@245.87-240-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  186. # [23:30] * Quits: rhiaro (~quassel@178.62.197.214) (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
  187. # [23:31] * Joins: rhiaro (~quassel@178.62.197.214)
  188. # [23:43] * Joins: nitot (~nitot@210.209.24.109.rev.sfr.net)
  189. # [23:47] * Quits: nitot (~nitot@210.209.24.109.rev.sfr.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  190. # [23:52] * Quits: fuzzyhorns (~fuzzyhorn@73.38.57.191) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  191. # [23:53] * Joins: fuzzyhorns (~fuzzyhorn@73.38.57.191)
  192. # Session Close: Tue Oct 20 00:00:00 2015

Previous day, Next day

Think these logs are useful? Then please donate to show your gratitude (and keep them up, of course). Thanks! — Krijn