/irc-logs / w3c / #webapps / 2008-10-27 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Oct 27 00:00:00 2008
  2. # Session Ident: #webapps
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  68. # [16:54] <marcos> Does anyone foresee a war breaking out between Web Apps and other working groups over our use of <widgets id=""> because of a conflict with XML ID?
  69. # [16:54] <marcos> MikeSmith, any thoughts ?
  70. # [16:57] <marcos> Artb, I recall the use of the ID element caused some friction in XBL 2.
  71. # [16:58] <marcos> And I think tlr-off may have raised concerns about this too
  72. # [16:58] * tlr-off had, indeed
  73. # [16:58] * tlr-off off again
  74. # [16:59] <gsnedders> marcos: There is surely no clash, as xml:id is in the xml namespace
  75. # [16:59] <tlr-off> there's technically no clash with xml:id
  76. # [16:59] <anne> if it's not an ID you might want to call it differently
  77. # [16:59] <tlr-off> However, a non-ID attribute that's called "id" strikes me as a seriously bad idea.
  78. # [16:59] <tlr-off> +1 to anne
  79. # [17:00] * gsnedders doesn't claim to know anything about widgets
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  82. # [17:08] <MikeSmith> marcos: i think other WGs may be going the same way of not seeing much good in using xml:id but seeing much bad
  83. # [17:09] <MikeSmith> I personally don't see any worth in adding xml:id to an existing spec that already has a global ID attribute
  84. # [17:09] * Joins: marcos (marcos@212.36.50.131)
  85. # [17:09] <MikeSmith> and even new specs would be better off just using @id , IMHO
  86. # [17:09] <MikeSmith> marcos: marcos: i think other WGs may be going the same way of not seeing much good in using xml:id but seeing much bad
  87. # [17:09] <MikeSmith> <MikeSmith> I personally don't see any worth in adding xml:id to an existing spec that already has a global ID attribute
  88. # [17:10] <marcos> thanks mike, I think that's what we are doing already
  89. # [17:10] <MikeSmith> yep
  90. # [17:14] * Parts: anne (annevk@66.134.141.179)
  91. # [17:17] <tlr-off> mhhh...
  92. # [17:18] <tlr-off> the id attribute in Widgets is not actually an id attribute, right?
  93. # [17:18] <tlr-off> I.e., it's value is not an ncname, but a URI?
  94. # [17:18] <marcos> yea
  95. # [17:19] <tlr-off> My argument is simply that you shouldn't call it "id", then.
  96. # [17:19] <tlr-off> That's totally unrealted to anything relating to xml:id
  97. # [17:21] <MikeSmith> true that (about is should best not be named "id" if it's not type ID)
  98. # [17:21] * Quits: marcos (marcos@212.36.50.131) (Ping timeout)
  99. # [17:24] <Hixie> the real question is not what allowed values it has, but whether it should be used for CSS #id matching or DOM getElementById() matching
  100. # [17:24] <Hixie> if it shouldn't, then don't call it id=""
  101. # [17:24] <Hixie> if it shoul, do
  102. # [17:24] <tlr-off> or for any other matching-by-id, that is
  103. # [17:24] <tlr-off> indeed
  104. # [17:25] <tlr-off> e.g., xpath
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  106. # [17:29] <marcos> ok, so gotta rename it then
  107. # [17:30] <marcos> hixie, thanks!
  108. # [17:31] <marcos> gsnedders, use your powers of poetry and bake us a new attribute name for <widget id>
  109. # [17:31] * tlr-off not poetic, but I'd suggest <widget uri>
  110. # [17:32] <Hixie> naming attributes by data type seems like bad language design to me :-)
  111. # [17:32] <Hixie> what is the attribute for?
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  113. # [17:35] <gsnedders> The name of your true desire
  114. # [17:35] <gsnedders> Is a name which few and far between
  115. # [17:35] <gsnedders> Have yet discovered
  116. # [17:35] <gsnedders> It is a name of lovers past
  117. # [17:35] <gsnedders> A name to portray the future
  118. # [17:35] <gsnedders> And a name to give
  119. # [17:35] <tlr-off> id
  120. # [17:35] <tlr-off> Optional. A valid URI that specifies a unique identifier specific to the widget.
  121. # [17:35] <gsnedders> An identity to a widget
  122. # [17:35] <tlr-off> you could call it "uid", in fact
  123. # [17:36] * Hixie doesn't understand the point
  124. # [17:36] <Hixie> what is it for?
  125. # [17:38] * tlr-off suspects that the WG doesn't really know ;->
  126. # [17:38] <tlr-off> but anyway, marcos isn't here right now
  127. # [17:38] * Hixie can't name it without knowing what it's for :-)
  128. # [17:38] <gsnedders> Can we have @bob?
  129. # [17:39] <tlr-off> my suspicion is that they really want to think of the widget as an resource that's identified by URI (for all kinds of purposes, e.g., attach metadata, ...), but don't dare to go as far as unifying with offline webapps
  130. # [17:41] * tlr-off wanders away
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  132. # [17:43] <marcos> hixie, its to identify it across contexts
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  134. # [17:43] <Hixie> why can't it just be a normal ID and you use normal ID rules with fragment identifiers?
  135. # [17:44] <marcos> I don't know. Maybe we can.
  136. # [17:45] <marcos> The identifier is not really for the element, but for the data object that is the widget. It seems like conceptually different things.
  137. # [17:46] <marcos> But I guess because <widget> is the root element of the configuration document it might be ok
  138. # [17:46] <Hixie> maybe "name" then
  139. # [17:46] <MikeSmith> yeah
  140. # [17:46] <Hixie> why does the name have to be explicit anyway?
  141. # [17:46] <MikeSmith> (about "name")
  142. # [17:46] <Hixie> if you copy this resource elsewhere, why does the name stay the same?
  143. # [17:46] <Hixie> are their origin checks on this name?
  144. # [17:47] <marcos> hixie, no origin checks
  145. # [17:47] <marcos> hixie, because if you want to update the package, you MAY want to verify that its name matches the name of the update
  146. # [17:48] <Hixie> ah
  147. # [17:48] <Hixie> i clearly don't really understand how these things work, so i'm going to bow out here
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  151. # [17:57] <marcos> argh! I have the worst network connection ever
  152. # [17:57] <gsnedders> marcos: worse than at TPAC?
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  176. # [22:17] * arve just posted an evil question to the list
  177. # [22:18] <arve> my next question is "what is a number", in "which numbering system"
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  181. # [23:24] <Hixie> do we have minutes from the meeting yet?
  182. # [23:24] <Hixie> (not widgets)
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  185. # [23:33] <Hixie> what did we discuss in the monday meeting
  186. # [23:33] * Hixie can't remember what came out of the webapps meeting :-/
  187. # [23:35] <sicking> Hixie, regarding what?
  188. # [23:43] <Hixie> i couldn't remember what we'd talked about at all
  189. # [23:43] <Hixie> but i just reread irc
  190. # [23:44] <Hixie> so now i can
  191. # [23:44] <Hixie> and all is well
  192. # [23:51] * anthony Hixie, yeah Chaal's is probably still fixing all my typo's in the minutes :P
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  194. # Session Close: Tue Oct 28 00:00:00 2008

The end :)