/irc-logs / w3c / #webapps / 2009-12-02 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Dec 02 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #webapps
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  73. # [20:00] <shepazu> trackbot, start telcon
  74. # [20:00] * trackbot is starting a teleconference
  75. # [20:00] <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
  76. # [20:00] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, trackbot
  77. # [20:00] * Joins: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.30)
  78. # [20:00] <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DOM3
  79. # [20:00] <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_WebApps(DOM3)2:00PM scheduled to start now
  80. # [20:00] <trackbot> Meeting: Web Applications Working Group Teleconference
  81. # [20:00] <trackbot> Date: 02 December 2009
  82. # [20:00] * shepazu zakim, call shepazu
  83. # [20:00] * Zakim ok, shepazu; the call is being made
  84. # [20:00] <Zakim> IA_WebApps(DOM3)2:00PM has now started
  85. # [20:00] <Zakim> +Shepazu
  86. # [20:02] <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
  87. # [20:02] <smaug> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
  88. # [20:02] <Zakim> +smaug; got it
  89. # [20:04] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  90. # [20:04] * shepazu http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8406
  91. # [20:05] * Joins: Travis (836b0069@128.30.52.43)
  92. # [20:06] * shepazu http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8406
  93. # [20:07] <Travis> scribe: Travis
  94. # [20:07] <Travis> scribeNick: Travis
  95. # [20:07] <Travis> shepazu: Agenda?
  96. # [20:07] <shepazu> agenda+ DOMActivate
  97. # [20:07] * Zakim notes agendum 1 added
  98. # [20:07] <shepazu> agenda+ event constructors
  99. # [20:07] * Zakim notes agendum 2 added
  100. # [20:08] <shepazu> agenda+ keystate and mutation replacement
  101. # [20:08] * Zakim notes agendum 3 added
  102. # [20:11] <Travis> Topic: DOMActivate
  103. # [20:15] <Travis> Reviewing DOMActivate scenarios...
  104. # [20:15] <Travis> shepazu: Next step to pass this idea along to the P&F (Protocols and Formats WG)
  105. # [20:16] <Travis> Action: shepazu Send email to PFWG regarding potentially deprecating DOMActivate
  106. # [20:16] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  107. # [20:16] * RRSAgent records action 1
  108. # [20:16] <trackbot> Created ACTION-461 - Send email to PFWG regarding potentially deprecating DOMActivate [on Doug Schepers - due 2009-12-09].
  109. # [20:18] <Travis> Topic: Travis' strawman proposals
  110. # [20:18] <Travis> shepazu: Looked over Key State.
  111. # [20:18] <Travis> ... (not much to it)
  112. # [20:19] <Travis> ... one detail; keyValues are not quite the same as keyboard state.
  113. # [20:20] <Travis> ... example. Control+C is pressed. Would is say that Control Key + C is pressed, or Control Key + COPY is pressed?
  114. # [20:24] <Travis> Travis: Let's table this for a bit.
  115. # [20:25] <Travis> ... Also, asked some folks here at MS what they thought of Ctrl+C vs. Ctrl+Copy... all preferred Ctrl+Copy as it would be easiser for web devs (more work for the browser implementor).
  116. # [20:26] <Travis> shepazu: I sent a short mail to the list about the selector-based mutation events...
  117. # [20:27] <Travis> ... watchSelector - selector element callback returns a single element... might want to also return a list (say a doc frag is inserted).
  118. # [20:27] <Travis> ... Could consolidate the sync/async nature of the APIs into a flag.
  119. # [20:28] <Travis> ... Rollup the sync/async concept under the "timeout/delay" property so that 0 means sync...
  120. # [20:29] <Travis> ... PFWG group was asking about something like this... we would like to get some examples of scenarios that might use this.
  121. # [20:32] <Travis> Any thoughts on the DOMCharacterDataModified deficiency?
  122. # [20:33] <Travis> smaug: This is the most widely used event.
  123. # [20:33] <Travis> shepazu: A couple of thoughts:
  124. # [20:33] <Travis> ... could use XPath (as indicated in the proposal)
  125. # [20:33] <Travis> ... could add text selectors into the selectors engine.
  126. # [20:33] <Travis> ... many use cases for this.
  127. # [20:34] <Travis> ... no idea what the performance cost (hit) is...
  128. # [20:34] <Travis> smaug: I'm not sure.
  129. # [20:34] <Travis> ... also not sure if this proposal is easier to implement (more performant)
  130. # [20:36] <Travis> ... Problem I see is when something is modified in the DOM, need to check to see if it now matches...
  131. # [20:42] <Travis> ... Wonder how this compares to Jonas' proposal.
  132. # [20:44] <Travis> Travis: Jonas has many more APIs... there's a link that describes them in the proposal...
  133. # [20:44] <Travis> shepazu: Thinking of making these into "spec" form to get more attention.
  134. # [20:45] <Travis> ... Have a strictor requirements section w/ explanation of why mutation events are bad and this is better
  135. # [20:46] <Travis> ... Could put the proposals together in the same doc as competing proposals to get feedback.
  136. # [20:48] <Travis> Action: Travis to gather the requirements from his head or from the list (or from customers :-) and roll them into a formal spec (with Doug's Help).
  137. # [20:48] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  138. # [20:48] * RRSAgent records action 2
  139. # [20:48] <trackbot> Created ACTION-462 - Gather the requirements from his head or from the list (or from customers :-) and roll them into a formal spec (with Doug's Help). [on Travis Leithead - due 2009-12-09].
  140. # [20:49] <Travis> Topic: event constructors
  141. # [20:50] <Travis> e.g., newEvent(oldEvent); ??
  142. # [20:50] <shepazu> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-dom/2009OctDec/0136.html
  143. # [20:53] <Travis> foo.dispatchEvent(new MouseEvent('click', ...))
  144. # [20:55] <Travis> This could safely be added later without disrupting things...
  145. # [20:55] <Travis> shepazu: Let's move it to DOM L4 events then... agreed?
  146. # [20:55] <Travis> Yep.
  147. # [20:55] <Travis> smaug: Yes.
  148. # [20:56] <Travis> shepazu: Do we want to spec the generic event initalizer for DOM L3 Events?
  149. # [20:57] <Travis> ... You pass it the event interface.
  150. # [20:57] <Travis> shepazu: Let me do this offline (I'll send it to the list).
  151. # [20:57] <Travis> Sounds great.
  152. # [20:58] <Travis> agenda+ vender-specific event names?
  153. # [20:58] * Zakim notes agendum 4 added
  154. # [20:58] <Travis> Topic: Vender-specific event names
  155. # [20:59] <Travis> shepazu: I took that ou.
  156. # [20:59] <Travis> s/ou/out
  157. # [21:01] <Travis> smaug: Does the current spec say anything about extra events, e.g., MozPixelScroll
  158. # [21:01] <Travis> ... something like that ;)
  159. # [21:02] <smaug> ok, it is MozMousePixelScroll
  160. # [21:02] <smaug> there is also things like MozAfterPaint
  161. # [21:03] <Travis> For IE9, we're thinking about the syntax: "-ms-eventname"
  162. # [21:03] <Travis> (It follows CSS extension syntax)
  163. # [21:04] <Travis> I'm open to changing this if anyone feels strongly about it...
  164. # [21:04] <smaug> on-ms-event
  165. # [21:04] <Travis> smaug: has problem with element.onfoo = function() { // ... };
  166. # [21:05] <Travis> ... would lead to script error: element.on-ms-foo = function() { // ... };
  167. # [21:06] <Travis> ... also, with CSS properties, you use the camel-case version.
  168. # [21:06] <Travis> msMyEvnet
  169. # [21:07] <Travis> MsMyEvent??
  170. # [21:07] <Travis> shepazu: Doesn't really matter.
  171. # [21:08] <Travis> ... I will reference the vender specific prefixing from either CSS or HTML5.
  172. # [21:10] <Travis> Topic: spec conventions
  173. # [21:10] <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/People/Schepers/spec-conventions.html
  174. # [21:11] * Quits: weinig (weinig@17.246.17.103) (Quit: weinig)
  175. # [21:12] <Travis> ... I will switch over to this convention unless anyone objects?
  176. # [21:12] <Travis> No objections
  177. # [21:13] <Travis> shepazu: Would love feedback from implementors as well.
  178. # [21:14] <Travis> Topic: review langauge input feedback from Microsoft
  179. # [21:18] * Joins: arve (arve@212.251.179.162)
  180. # [21:19] <Travis> The WAC team (online versions of Word/Excel/etc.) responded to our feedback from the last telecon
  181. # [21:20] <Travis> ... They liked having a language property on the CompositionEvent
  182. # [21:21] <Travis> ... They were willing to compromise on not having the keyboard property for all input events... but they'd like to have a static method to query the keyboard language.
  183. # [21:21] <Travis> ... I will send a mail summarizing the scenarios and pain-points to the lis.
  184. # [21:21] <Travis> s/lis/list/
  185. # [21:22] <Travis> shepazu: OK.
  186. # [21:22] <Travis> ... I should have a new draft tomorrow or shortly thereafter...
  187. # [21:26] <Travis> ... May not be the best idea to propose a last call before the holidays...
  188. # [21:28] <Travis> ... Next telecon will be Jan. 6, 2010.
  189. # [21:31] <Travis> ... If you want/need any more changes, please send them to the list.
  190. # [21:31] <Travis> See you next year!!
  191. # [21:32] <Zakim> -smaug
  192. # [21:32] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  193. # [21:32] <Zakim> -Shepazu
  194. # [21:32] <Zakim> IA_WebApps(DOM3)2:00PM has ended
  195. # [21:32] <Zakim> Attendees were Shepazu, smaug, [Microsoft]
  196. # [21:34] <shepazu> trackbot, end telcon
  197. # [21:34] * trackbot is ending a teleconference
  198. # [21:34] <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
  199. # [21:34] <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
  200. # [21:34] <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
  201. # [21:34] <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
  202. # [21:34] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-webapps-minutes.html trackbot
  203. # [21:34] <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-webapps-actions.rdf :
  204. # [21:34] <RRSAgent> ACTION: shepazu Send email to PFWG regarding potentially deprecating DOMActivate [1]
  205. # [21:34] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-webapps-irc#T19-16-14
  206. # [21:34] <RRSAgent> ACTION: Travis to gather the requirements from his head or from the list (or from customers :-) and roll them into a formal spec (with Doug's Help). [2]
  207. # [21:34] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-webapps-irc#T19-48-31
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The end :)