/irc-logs / w3c / #webapps / 2011-08-10 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Aug 10 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #webapps
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  39. # [14:54] <ArtB> Can anyone provide some status on the Web Socket Protocol spec by the Hybi WG?
  40. # [14:54] <Ms2ger> I hates it
  41. # [14:54] <Ms2ger> And it was in LC?
  42. # [14:59] <smaug> I *think* there are still open issues related to compression; whether or not to support some kind of compression
  43. # [15:06] <ArtB> smaug - I think the compression issue was resolved
  44. # [15:06] <ArtB> … on the API side anyway
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  46. # [15:07] <smaug> on API side, but not in protocol
  47. # [15:08] <smaug> there was a "consensus call on removing deflate-stream"
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  49. # [15:18] <ArtB> smaug, I think we are in violent agreement ;-)
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  80. # [18:47] * Ian waves
  81. # [18:48] * Ms2ger waves
  82. # [18:48] <ArtB> Hi Ian!
  83. # [18:48] <ArtB> thanks for joining this channel
  84. # [18:48] <ArtB> I wanted to learn about REC rescinding
  85. # [18:49] <ArtB> Some members of WebApps proposed Rescinding the DOM 2 Views REC
  86. # [18:49] <Ian> -> http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr.html#rec-rescind
  87. # [18:49] <Ian> Ok
  88. # [18:49] <ArtB> http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-2-Views/
  89. # [18:49] <Ian> summary:
  90. # [18:49] <Ian> - group requests rescind
  91. # [18:49] <Ian> - director evaluates request and starts 4-week review
  92. # [18:49] <Ian> - outcome determines yes or no
  93. # [18:50] <Ian> and if "yes" we update the latest version URI to point to a thing that says "RESCINDED!"
  94. # [18:50] * Quits: ArtB (abarsto@192.100.124.220) (Client exited)
  95. # [18:50] <Ian> So the main effort is making the case why to rescind
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  97. # [18:50] * abarsto is now known as ArtB
  98. # [18:50] <Ian> So the main effort is making the case why to rescind
  99. # [18:50] * Ian only typed one sentence while Art was away
  100. # [18:50] * ArtB may have missed some stuff ;-(
  101. # [18:50] * Ian nope
  102. # [18:51] <ArtB> Yes, I think the ProcDoc is clear we need some rationale
  103. # [18:51] <ArtB> we don't have the rationale in "the separate doc"
  104. # [18:51] <ArtB> and I haven't issued a CfC to determine the WG's position
  105. # [18:51] <ArtB> Have any RECs ever been rescinded?
  106. # [18:52] <Ian> No.
  107. # [18:52] <ArtB> The PD seems like the bar is quite low
  108. # [18:52] <ArtB> which can be good
  109. # [18:53] <ArtB> OTOH, it seems like the rationale should be quite compelling
  110. # [18:53] <ArtB> e.g. a REC includes a massive security hole
  111. # [18:53] <Ian> For older specs it's not as relevant, but for newer ones you lose patent commitments
  112. # [18:53] <Ian> http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Patent-Policy-20040205/#sec-Requirements
  113. # [18:53] <Ian> "10. If the Recommendation is rescinded by W3C, then no new licenses need be granted but any licenses granted before the Recommendation was rescinded shall remain in effect."
  114. # [18:54] <Ian> (to be clear: no new ones required...but the question is whether people actually got licenses...)
  115. # [18:54] <ArtB> That seems reasonable
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  117. # [18:55] <ArtB> What actually happens to a REC that is rescinded? Is it updated directly?
  118. # [18:55] <Ian> I expect that we would update the status section in place
  119. # [18:55] <Ian> And the LV URI would point to a stub that gives rationale
  120. # [18:56] <ArtB> So, it sounds like the next step is to get WG consenus
  121. # [18:56] <Ian> yes
  122. # [18:56] <ArtB> and then ask the broader community
  123. # [18:56] <ArtB> like www-dom
  124. # [18:56] <ArtB> and perhaps chairs
  125. # [18:56] <Ian> the way we ask the broader community is the 4-week review period
  126. # [18:56] <ArtB> and if there are no objections, then go the AC?
  127. # [18:56] <Ian> The 4-week review is public + AC
  128. # [18:57] <Ian> so you can build support before the 4-week review if you want
  129. # [18:57] <Ian> or just use the 4-week review to make the case to everyone.
  130. # [18:57] <ArtB> how do you actually do the Public review?
  131. # [18:57] <Ian> We haven't done this before but I would think:
  132. # [18:57] <Ian> - email on group's mailing list
  133. # [18:57] <Ian> - home page news calling for review
  134. # [18:57] <Ian> - chairs
  135. # [18:57] <Ian> - ac
  136. # [18:58] <Ian> - anyone else known to be importnat
  137. # [18:58] <Ian> (or likely to be affected)
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  139. # [18:58] <ArtB> I think the funky part here is that some non-member may normatively reference the REC and they don't see the announcement
  140. # [18:59] <ArtB> but I guess that is unavoidable
  141. # [18:59] <Ian> We might want to make an effort to tell the IETF
  142. # [18:59] <ArtB> I wonder if the JCP f.ex. ever did something with DOM 2 View
  143. # [18:59] <Ian> and other parties you think may care
  144. # [18:59] <Ian> You could take some time before the request to the director to start raising awareness
  145. # [19:00] <Ian> and then the 4-week review is when people send comments
  146. # [19:00] <ArtB> We can always blame Arnaud ;-)
  147. # [19:00] <Ian> Yes, that's quite useful.
  148. # [19:00] <Ian> I need to step away for a call...but I can be on irc for more questions
  149. # [19:00] <ArtB> yes, there are certainly some things to do before the formal 4-week review begins
  150. # [19:00] <ArtB> Thanks Ian!
  151. # [19:01] <Ian> good luck!
  152. # [19:03] <ArtB> Ms2ger - do you think you and Anne could put together the rationale doc? In practice, I think that just means a paragraph or two in WebApps' wiki space.
  153. # [19:04] <Ms2ger> I guess
  154. # [19:06] <shepazu> now that's passion! I'm prepared to be stunned and inspired by the rationale
  155. # [19:08] <Ms2ger> "This sucks"
  156. # [19:08] <Ms2ger> A word or two, you said? :)
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  158. # [19:25] <ArtB> I think there is some pain to gain calculus that should be done
  159. # [19:25] <Ms2ger> Say what?
  160. # [19:26] <ArtB> I think it makes sense to calculate the pain to gain ratio before proceeding
  161. # [19:26] <Ms2ger> Mm
  162. # [19:27] <ArtB> e.g. what's the worst case scenario if D2V REC is _not_ rescinded
  163. # [19:27] <ArtB> or IOW, if it isn't rescinded, will anyone notice?
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  174. # [20:56] <Josh_Soref> :(
  175. # [20:57] <Josh_Soref> PayPal is offering me 1 Canadian Dollar = 0.981493 U.S. Dollars
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  179. # [20:57] <Josh_Soref> Google is quoting: 1 Canadian dollar = 1.01092 U.S. dollars
  180. # [20:58] <Josh_Soref> so somehow on tpac registration, we lose 3 cents on the dollar (?) which adds up to about 5 dollars
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  182. # [21:11] * Marcos will by Josh_Soref a cup of coffee and cookie at TPAC to make up for the $5
  183. # [21:12] <Marcos> buy*
  184. # [21:14] * gsnedders points out there is normally free coffee
  185. # [21:15] <Marcos> sssh!!! gsnedders
  186. # [21:15] <Marcos> (I was also going to pocket the break cookies and sell them to TPAC nookies
  187. # [21:15] <Marcos> or noobies
  188. # [21:17] <Marcos> "oh, I'm collecting donations for the W3C… yeah, they are in financial trouble… that will be $5 please. Sorry, not tax deductible. No, I don't have identification… get your hands off me!!! no, you took the cookie, I get to keep your money!!! " … it's all down hill from there… but I get my $5.
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The end :)