/irc-logs / w3c / #webapps / 2013-05-28 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Tue May 28 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #webapps
  3. # [00:05] * Quits: smaug (~chatzilla@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  4. # [00:36] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  5. # [00:43] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  6. # [01:07] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  7. # [01:14] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  8. # [01:16] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  9. # [01:37] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  10. # [01:44] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  11. # [01:57] * Quits: tobie (tobie@public.cloak)
  12. # [02:08] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  13. # [02:15] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  14. # [02:33] * Joins: richt (~richt@public.cloak)
  15. # [02:38] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  16. # [02:45] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  17. # [03:09] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  18. # [03:16] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  19. # [03:17] * Joins: yoichio (~yoichio@public.cloak)
  20. # [03:39] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  21. # [03:46] * Quits: Dashiva (~noone@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  22. # [03:46] * Joins: Dashiva (~noone@public.cloak)
  23. # [03:46] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  24. # [04:10] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  25. # [04:16] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  26. # [04:17] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  27. # [04:40] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  28. # [04:47] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  29. # [05:11] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  30. # [05:18] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  31. # [05:34] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  32. # [05:42] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  33. # [05:48] * Joins: jeffh (~18047aad@public.cloak)
  34. # [05:49] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  35. # [06:00] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  36. # [06:12] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  37. # [06:14] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  38. # [06:19] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  39. # [06:43] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  40. # [06:50] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  41. # [07:13] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  42. # [07:20] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  43. # [07:44] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  44. # [07:46] * Quits: glenn (~gadams@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  45. # [07:51] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  46. # [08:14] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  47. # [08:21] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  48. # [08:26] * Quits: jeffh (~18047aad@public.cloak) ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
  49. # [08:32] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  50. # [08:53] * Joins: hallvors (~hallvord@public.cloak)
  51. # [08:54] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  52. # [09:15] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  53. # [09:21] * Joins: tobie (tobie@public.cloak)
  54. # [09:22] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  55. # [09:31] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  56. # [09:39] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak)
  57. # [09:46] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  58. # [09:53] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  59. # [10:13] * Joins: darobin (rberjon@public.cloak)
  60. # [10:16] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  61. # [10:23] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  62. # [10:47] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  63. # [10:48] * Joins: chaals (~Adium@public.cloak)
  64. # [10:53] * Quits: chaals1 (~Adium@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  65. # [10:54] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  66. # [11:00] * Quits: Jungkee (~Jungkee@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
  67. # [11:00] * Joins: jungkees (~jungkees@public.cloak)
  68. # [11:17] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  69. # [11:24] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  70. # [11:48] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  71. # [11:55] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  72. # [12:02] * Quits: richt (~richt@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  73. # [12:02] * Joins: richt (~richt@public.cloak)
  74. # [12:04] <hallvors> jgraham: the most recent change in https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/86 is 3 days old - something got stuck, or I'm Git-confused again?
  75. # [12:05] * hallvors managed to get into a merge conflict with himself. At least it's easy to find the right person to blame
  76. # [12:05] <jgraham> hallvors: Something bad happened on that branch and it stopped tracking
  77. # [12:05] <jgraham> Where "something bad" was probably a non-ff update
  78. # [12:06] <hallvors> ouch. probably that merge conflict because I pushed from two different computers
  79. # [12:06] <darobin> mounir: can you give me an issue number that you can't change please?
  80. # [12:08] <mounir> darobin: https://github.com/w3c/manifest/issues/22
  81. # [12:09] <darobin> mounir: thanks, in fact the bug is more extensive than we thought
  82. # [12:09] * Quits: richt (~richt@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  83. # [12:10] <Ms2ger> darobin, it's "we use github"?
  84. # [12:11] <darobin> Ms2ger: well, they clearly have a bug here
  85. # [12:12] <darobin> Ms2ger: but then again, by trying to identify the bug I seem to have managed to cause Firebug to load a GitHub page into a chrome-permissions tab :)
  86. # [12:12] * Joins: smaug (~chatzilla@public.cloak)
  87. # [12:12] <Ms2ger> That sounds rather unfortunate
  88. # [12:13] <jgraham> You can change issue numbers on github?
  89. # [12:18] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  90. # [12:24] <hallvors> jgraham: any fix for this?
  91. # [12:25] <jgraham> hallvors: I guess it is possible to fix, but I'm not sure how
  92. # [12:25] <jgraham> Let me have a look…
  93. # [12:25] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  94. # [12:31] <jgraham> hallvors: Will it be a big problem to wait until this evening to fix? It looks a bit complicated
  95. # [12:31] <hallvors> certainly not
  96. # [12:32] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  97. # [12:44] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak)
  98. # [12:47] * Quits: smaug (~chatzilla@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  99. # [12:49] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  100. # [12:56] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  101. # [13:19] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  102. # [13:26] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  103. # [13:54] * Joins: richt (~richt@public.cloak)
  104. # [14:20] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  105. # [14:23] * Quits: jungkees (~jungkees@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
  106. # [14:27] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  107. # [14:51] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  108. # [14:58] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  109. # [15:01] * Joins: smaug (~chatzilla@public.cloak)
  110. # [15:11] * Joins: glenn (~gadams@public.cloak)
  111. # [15:22] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  112. # [15:29] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  113. # [15:39] <hallvors> darobin: any time to look at the w3c-test.org PHP setup yet?
  114. # [15:39] <darobin> hallvors: I happen to be doing that now!
  115. # [15:39] <darobin> sorry it took me longer than I hoped to get into it, it's a messy problem...
  116. # [15:40] <hallvors> Yay! I'm afraid it's becoming a serious limitation :-/ I want lots of test changes reviewed, and lots of the tests are failing on w3c-test
  117. # [15:40] <darobin> yeah I know, it sucks
  118. # [15:40] <darobin> I hate Apache
  119. # [15:40] <hallvors> so I hope you'll figure it out now :)
  120. # [15:40] <darobin> I'm going through endless configuration crap, I'll let you know as soon as I do
  121. # [15:41] <Ms2ger> Let's get that python server set up ;)
  122. # [15:42] <jgraham> s/set up/written/
  123. # [15:42] <Ms2ger> Both
  124. # [15:43] <darobin> if no one does it, I'll end up getting around to it; but if I do it'll be in Node :-p
  125. # [15:43] <darobin> so get writing!
  126. # [15:44] <Ms2ger> Well, feel free to write something in node, but that wouldn't address the use cases, so it'd be wasting your time
  127. # [15:46] <jgraham> Yeah
  128. # [15:47] <jgraham> Trying to sell everyone on a node dependency when they al already have python dependencies isn't a winning strategy
  129. # [15:50] <darobin> I know, it was just a way of encouraging you
  130. # [15:50] <darobin> I've been doing a fair bit of Python recently, and it stretches my patience for bad language design
  131. # [15:52] <Ms2ger> And that makes you move to *JS*?
  132. # [15:52] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  133. # [15:53] * Joins: davidb (~davidb@public.cloak)
  134. # [15:53] <jgraham> Ms2ger: Presumably he's still trolling
  135. # [15:53] <Ms2ger> Good point
  136. # [15:55] <jgraham> If you reallky think that JS is nicer than python then I guess that's you and Brendan Eich and no one else.
  137. # [15:56] <darobin> JS is nicer than Python
  138. # [15:56] <jgraham> And, given how much python they are adding into JS these days, I'm not sure about Brendan
  139. # [15:56] <darobin> and I'm pretty sure it's more than Brendan and I :)
  140. # [15:56] <darobin> they're adding Python? I thought they were doing what everyone else is doing and adding some Ruby
  141. # [15:57] <darobin> what could they get from Python? Unicode support?
  142. # [15:57] * darobin giggles
  143. # [15:57] * tobie prefers JS over Python too, for the record.
  144. # [15:58] <jgraham> Maybe it's a secret handshake
  145. # [15:58] <jgraham> If you say that with a straight face you get a job at W3C
  146. # [15:59] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  147. # [15:59] * tobie I should try that.
  148. # [16:02] <Ms2ger> How did Bert get in?
  149. # [16:02] <jgraham> He was already there
  150. # [16:02] <jgraham> Always
  151. # [16:07] <jgraham> (so, what is there to like so much about js? Is it the total lack of a working hash table type? Or the fact that the inheritance system is so unpopular that they are desperately trying to graft on a second system, just to stop every single library implementing its own half baked version?)
  152. # [16:08] <jgraham> (because in all seriousness, the only advantages I can think of relative to python are a) closures are more natural and b) it's faster)
  153. # [16:13] * Joins: richt_ (~richt@public.cloak)
  154. # [16:13] * Quits: hallvors (~hallvord@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  155. # [16:19] * Quits: richt (~richt@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  156. # [16:21] <tobie> jgraham: the language is much much smaller
  157. # [16:21] <tobie> jgraham: also, it's the same lang on the client and the server, which is nice.
  158. # [16:21] <tobie> q+
  159. # [16:21] <tobie> arg
  160. # [16:22] <Ms2ger> q- tobie
  161. # [16:23] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  162. # [16:24] <jgraham> Pretty sure you are supposed to write your client in C++ and compile with emscripten these days
  163. # [16:25] <jgraham> (but if smallness was a desirable property in a language, we would all be using scheme)
  164. # [16:30] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  165. # [16:31] * Joins: jeffh (~18047aad@public.cloak)
  166. # [16:33] * Quits: glenn (~gadams@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  167. # [16:33] <darobin> shouldn't we use Coq?
  168. # [16:34] <Ms2ger> You like the Coq?
  169. # [16:34] <darobin> big time
  170. # [16:35] <darobin> one thing I like in JS over Python is a string type that doesn't feel like it was designed by Rasmus Lerdorf
  171. # [16:36] <Ms2ger> Because it's so crappy, or?
  172. # [16:36] * jgraham doesn't reacall liking js strings
  173. # [16:36] <darobin> not stabbing you in the face makes it better than Python's
  174. # [16:37] <jgraham> Hmm. Whihc brokenness
  175. # [16:37] <darobin> I hear it's better in Python 3, but I guess that's like Perl 6
  176. # [16:37] <jgraham> in particular?
  177. # [16:37] <darobin> Unicode?
  178. # [16:37] <jgraham> I mean if you always create unicode strings in python you are pretty much good
  179. # [16:37] <darobin> I've never touched a piece of Python code that didn't have Unicode issues
  180. # [16:37] <jgraham> and "from __future__ import unicode_literals" helps
  181. # [16:37] <jgraham> Well all js has unicode issues too
  182. # [16:38] <jgraham> It just doesn't rally do IO
  183. # [16:38] <darobin> and that's the point at which I rest my case :)
  184. # [16:38] <jgraham> *really
  185. # [16:38] <darobin> doesn't really do IO?
  186. # [16:38] <jgraham> WellI guess node probably does
  187. # [16:38] <darobin> yeah, I'm pretty sure it does :)
  188. # [16:38] <jgraham> But that isn't javascript
  189. # [16:38] <darobin> it does it well, too
  190. # [16:39] <tobie> well, the argument of whether standards lib are part of the language or not is rhetoric, really.
  191. # [16:40] <jgraham> I don't think there's an argument
  192. # [16:40] <jgraham> node isn't part of javascript
  193. # [16:40] <jgraham> The python stdlib is part of python
  194. # [16:42] <darobin> and the Web is defined by standards! not by what people actually use!
  195. # [16:43] * Ms2ger yawns
  196. # [16:44] * Joins: glenn (~gadams@public.cloak)
  197. # [16:47] * Quits: glenn (~gadams@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  198. # [16:53] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  199. # [16:56] <darobin> damn, no hallvors
  200. # [16:57] <darobin> I think I may have located the PHP problem
  201. # [16:57] <darobin> but I can't find the example he was using :(
  202. # [16:59] * darobin this includes pseudocode, so 95% of the HTML spec is already open sourced by PSIG :)
  203. # [16:59] <darobin> hmmm, wrong channel
  204. # [17:00] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  205. # [17:13] * Quits: smaug (~chatzilla@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  206. # [17:14] * Joins: smaug (~chatzilla@public.cloak)
  207. # [17:24] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  208. # [17:26] * Joins: jsbell (~jsbell@public.cloak)
  209. # [17:28] * Joins: chaals1 (~Adium@public.cloak)
  210. # [17:28] * Quits: chaals (~Adium@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  211. # [17:31] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  212. # [17:31] * timeless chuckles @ the Web is defined by standards! not by what people actually use!
  213. # [17:54] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  214. # [18:01] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  215. # [18:08] * Quits: scheib (~uid4467@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  216. # [18:08] * Quits: slightlyoff (~uid1768@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  217. # [18:08] * Quits: anssik (~uid10742@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  218. # [18:08] * Quits: timeless (~uid4015@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  219. # [18:16] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@public.cloak)
  220. # [18:25] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  221. # [18:28] * Quits: darobin (rberjon@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  222. # [18:32] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  223. # [18:54] * Quits: richt_ (~richt@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  224. # [18:54] * Joins: richt (~richt@public.cloak)
  225. # [18:55] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  226. # [19:01] * Quits: richt (~richt@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  227. # [19:02] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  228. # [19:11] * Joins: chaals (~Adium@public.cloak)
  229. # [19:16] * Quits: chaals1 (~Adium@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  230. # [19:16] * Joins: richt (~richt@public.cloak)
  231. # [19:17] * Joins: davidb_ (~davidb@public.cloak)
  232. # [19:20] * Quits: davidb (~davidb@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  233. # [19:20] * davidb_ is now known as davidb
  234. # [19:24] * Joins: slightlyoff (~uid1768@public.cloak)
  235. # [19:27] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  236. # [19:34] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  237. # [19:39] * Quits: richt (~richt@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  238. # [19:39] * Joins: richt (~richt@public.cloak)
  239. # [19:41] * Joins: timeless (~uid4015@public.cloak)
  240. # [19:45] * Joins: scheib (~uid4467@public.cloak)
  241. # [19:47] * Quits: richt (~richt@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  242. # [20:08] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@public.cloak) (sicking)
  243. # [20:20] * Quits: davidb (~davidb@public.cloak) (davidb)
  244. # [20:21] * Quits: smaug (~chatzilla@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  245. # [20:21] * Joins: smaug (~chatzilla@public.cloak)
  246. # [20:24] * Joins: anssik (~uid10742@public.cloak)
  247. # [20:27] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  248. # [20:29] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@public.cloak)
  249. # [20:34] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  250. # [20:41] * Joins: glenn (~gadams@public.cloak)
  251. # [20:57] * Quits: chaals (~Adium@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  252. # [20:58] * Joins: chaals (~Adium@public.cloak)
  253. # [20:58] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  254. # [21:05] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  255. # [21:24] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@public.cloak) (sicking)
  256. # [21:28] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  257. # [21:29] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@public.cloak)
  258. # [21:36] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  259. # [21:58] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  260. # [21:59] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  261. # [21:59] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@public.cloak)
  262. # [22:01] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@public.cloak)
  263. # [22:01] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@public.cloak) (sicking)
  264. # [22:06] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  265. # [22:15] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak) ("nn")
  266. # [22:17] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  267. # [22:27] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@public.cloak)
  268. # [22:30] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  269. # [22:37] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  270. # [22:57] * Quits: smaug (~chatzilla@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  271. # [22:58] * Joins: smaug (~chatzilla@public.cloak)
  272. # [23:30] * Joins: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  273. # [23:37] * Quits: kochi_ (~kochi_home@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  274. # [23:40] * Quits: jeffh (~18047aad@public.cloak) ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
  275. # [23:42] * Joins: davidb (~davidb@public.cloak)
  276. # [23:45] * Joins: jeffh (~18047aad@public.cloak)
  277. # [23:58] * Quits: smaug (~chatzilla@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  278. # Session Close: Wed May 29 00:00:00 2013

The end :)