/irc-logs / freenode / #webplatform / 2012-10-22 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Oct 22 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #webplatform
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  54. # [03:56] <@arkhi> Good morning
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  57. # [04:00] <shepazu> hi, arkhi
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  60. # [04:07] <pyrotechnick> this page is splendid people http://www.webplatform.org/logo/
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  66. # [04:10] <shepazu> thanks, pyrotechnick… I made that :)
  67. # [04:10] <pyrotechnick> it has really inpsired me
  68. # [04:10] <pyrotechnick> inspired*
  69. # [04:11] <shepazu> it's not quite what I wanted, but I ran out of time
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  71. # [04:11] <pyrotechnick> that's the beauty of openness
  72. # [04:11] <pyrotechnick> you can fix it later :)
  73. # [04:11] <shepazu> I'd like to make the SVG more easily copyable and customizable :)
  74. # [04:12] <pyrotechnick> it's good you put it in its own graphic
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  77. # [04:13] <pyrotechnick> i think anyone diving this deep knows enough to extract what they're looking for from what's here
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  80. # [04:13] <pyrotechnick> don't worry too much ^w^
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  82. # [04:14] <pyrotechnick> where do you guys hang out?
  83. # [04:14] <@arkhi> shepazu: Yeah, and “export” button would be awesome, but copy / pasting the DOM view from any Firebug like tool is easy as well. :)
  84. # [04:15] <shepazu> arkhi: yeah, the export is what I want… and a nice user interface
  85. # [04:15] <pyrotechnick> where's the source for this stuff
  86. # [04:16] <shepazu> source?
  87. # [04:16] <pyrotechnick> yeah the code
  88. # [04:16] <pyrotechnick> and bug tracker
  89. # [04:16] <pyrotechnick> for this particular page
  90. # [04:16] <shepazu> no bug tracker for this page specifically, but you can use our regular bugzilla
  91. # [04:17] <pyrotechnick> tyvm
  92. # [04:17] <shepazu> the source code is all there...
  93. # [04:17] <pyrotechnick> i mean the repo
  94. # [04:17] <shepazu> there is no repo
  95. # [04:17] <pyrotechnick> so this isn't opem
  96. # [04:17] <pyrotechnick> sorry about my typing
  97. # [04:17] <pyrotechnick> so this isn't "open"
  98. # [04:17] <shepazu> we want to set one up, but we haven't had time
  99. # [04:17] <pyrotechnick> ok
  100. # [04:17] <shepazu> depends what you mean by "open"
  101. # [04:18] <pyrotechnick> as in i can propose concrete changes (pull request or something)
  102. # [04:18] <shepazu> interesting how "open" has changed over time
  103. # [04:18] <pyrotechnick> well call it what you want
  104. # [04:18] <pyrotechnick> i dont care for the system just the ability to do that i think would help you guys out
  105. # [04:18] <shepazu> you can suggest changes, of course
  106. # [04:18] <pyrotechnick> so you rather suggestions than patches?
  107. # [04:19] <shepazu> not necessarily
  108. # [04:19] <shepazu> we just don't yet have a git repo
  109. # [04:19] <pyrotechnick> ok
  110. # [04:19] <pyrotechnick> is there a wishlist at least?
  111. # [04:19] <shepazu> you can subscribe to the public mailing list
  112. # [04:19] <@arkhi> pyrotechnick: save source code and upload your changes somewhere?
  113. # [04:20] <shepazu> or you can make a wishlist on the wiki
  114. # [04:20] <pyrotechnick> mmm
  115. # [04:20] <pyrotechnick> ok
  116. # [04:20] <shepazu> I can start one if you like
  117. # [04:20] <pyrotechnick> i'm kind of confused TBH
  118. # [04:20] <shepazu> moment
  119. # [04:20] <shepazu> confused?
  120. # [04:21] <pyrotechnick> like it's meant to be about opening the web
  121. # [04:21] <pyrotechnick> but it feels kind of closed, at least in some aspects, to me
  122. # [04:21] <pyrotechnick> i guess it's a time thing
  123. # [04:21] <pyrotechnick> but i mean haven't you had these questions yet?
  124. # [04:22] <pyrotechnick> (sorry if i sound like a dick im not trying to upset anyone)
  125. # [04:22] <shepazu> we've had questions about the wiki skin and CSS
  126. # [04:22] <shepazu> which is the major part of the site
  127. # [04:23] <pyrotechnick> yeah that stuff doesn't really bother me
  128. # [04:23] <shepazu> maybe I should put up a FAQ answer about the repo
  129. # [04:23] <pyrotechnick> i'm a form follows function kind of person
  130. # [04:23] <pyrotechnick> i suggested it in here when i first found out about the project
  131. # [04:23] <pyrotechnick> that you at least need a known issues or wishlist or something
  132. # [04:23] <shepazu> we've been pretty busy :)
  133. # [04:24] <pyrotechnick> yeah nah i don't doubt that
  134. # [04:24] <pyrotechnick> thanks for your time here anyway
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  136. # [04:24] <pyrotechnick> i thought it was a time/busy thing and you confirmed that which is the best answer i could expect
  137. # [04:25] <pyrotechnick> and you sound generally aware of most the issues i have so
  138. # [04:25] <pyrotechnick> all is well :)
  139. # [04:27] <shepazu> http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Wishlist
  140. # [04:27] <pyrotechnick> excellent
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  143. # [04:31] <pyrotechnick> the web needs a <confession> tag
  144. # [04:31] <shepazu> hmm?
  145. # [04:32] <pyrotechnick> <opinion> maybe
  146. # [04:32] <pyrotechnick> or <take_this_with_a_grain_of_salt_but_in_my_humble_experience>
  147. # [04:32] <shepazu> well, you could make whatever tag you want once we have Web Components
  148. # [04:32] <@arkhi> <sarcasm />
  149. # [04:32] <@arkhi> Add it with RDFa… :)
  150. # [04:33] <shepazu> <spoiler></spoiler>
  151. # [04:33] <pyrotechnick> yeah im trying to learn more about the semantic web and ontology in general lately
  152. # [04:34] <pyrotechnick> i find it all rather ironic, i want to learn more about it but i don't know the language
  153. # [04:34] <pyrotechnick> fifthworldproblems
  154. # [04:36] <pyrotechnick> i guess if you're interested in it then i should ask you the questions i have, umm, one was where do you guys hang out the other was which particular standard do you think will stand the test of time because i want to start off in the right place with something that's going to manifest into something valuable
  155. # [04:37] <pyrotechnick> i see alot of the efforts were abandoned or otherwise died, i want to avoid that at all costs
  156. # [04:37] <@arkhi> pyrotechnick: the one we support. :p
  157. # [04:38] <pyrotechnick> what do you call it exactly
  158. # [04:39] <@arkhi> I think microdata is well advanced and seeing increasing support, but can't tell for sure.
  159. # [04:40] <shepazu> I think schema.org is a good place to find the latest info on pragmatic semantic markup
  160. # [04:40] <pyrotechnick> i just checked that on http://html5test.com/
  161. # [04:40] <pyrotechnick> the lack of support makes me sad :(
  162. # [04:40] * arkhi is now known as arkhisinameeting
  163. # [04:40] <shepazu> pyrotechnick: what kind of support are you looking for?
  164. # [04:41] <pyrotechnick> microdata ^
  165. # [04:41] <pyrotechnick> that's not really what i was looking for arkhi just suggested it
  166. # [04:41] <shepazu> no, I mean, support in what way?
  167. # [04:41] <pyrotechnick> i honestly don't know much about it
  168. # [04:42] <pyrotechnick> it just has bad support according to these tests
  169. # [04:42] <shepazu> pyrotechnick: it's not something that browsers "support" per se
  170. # [04:42] <pyrotechnick> are the tests lying?
  171. # [04:42] <pyrotechnick> so they're wrong?
  172. # [04:42] <shepazu> that is, it's not designed for browser support
  173. # [04:42] <shepazu> it's
  174. # [04:42] <shepazu> it's more for search engines and other user agents
  175. # [04:42] <pyrotechnick> i see
  176. # [04:43] <shepazu> I mean, I can imagine some sort of browser support, like mouseover tooltips or something
  177. # [04:43] <pyrotechnick> so chrome scoring 0/15 isn't exactly an issue unless you're using it as some kind of spider?
  178. # [04:43] <shepazu> right
  179. # [04:43] <pyrotechnick> okay cuz i am
  180. # [04:43] <pyrotechnick> >.<
  181. # [04:43] <shepazu> well, maybe :)
  182. # [04:43] <pyrotechnick> i'm using chrome instead of node these days
  183. # [04:43] <pyrotechnick> it's been…interesting
  184. # [04:44] <shepazu> pyrotechnick: why Chrome, and not http://phantomjs.org/ ?
  185. # [04:45] <pyrotechnick> i actually want the gui
  186. # [04:45] <pyrotechnick> gui is the best part IMHO
  187. # [04:46] <shepazu> ah
  188. # [04:46] <pyrotechnick> yep ^w^
  189. # [04:46] <shepazu> wait, what does html5test mean when they test microdata? where are their tests?
  190. # [04:47] <pyrotechnick> it says this spec lemme look for their code
  191. # [04:47] <pyrotechnick> http://www.w3.org/TR/microdata/
  192. # [04:48] <pyrotechnick> it's nice and obfuscated
  193. # [04:49] <pyrotechnick> https://github.com/NielsLeenheer/html5test
  194. # [04:50] <pyrotechnick> https://github.com/NielsLeenheer/html5test/blob/master/scripts/engine.js#L2221
  195. # [04:50] <shepazu> I really wish github were open source
  196. # [04:50] <pyrotechnick> the github killer will be, and distributed too
  197. # [04:50] <pyrotechnick> it's how it's supposed to be
  198. # [04:51] <pyrotechnick> it will be written in html and people will use the same interface for their vcs gui and hub
  199. # [04:51] <pyrotechnick> probably someone's coding it in their mum's basement as we speak
  200. # [04:52] <pyrotechnick> the thing is there's little glory in actually pulling this off
  201. # [04:52] <pyrotechnick> so it'll be some time yet, and adoption will be very slow, but many people wish for it
  202. # [04:52] <pyrotechnick> including you and i :)
  203. # [04:53] <shepazu> we would use it on webplatform.org if there were a nice way to do gists and pull requests, for example
  204. # [04:53] <pyrotechnick> of course
  205. # [04:53] <pyrotechnick> it's actually 2nd on my list after my mmo
  206. # [04:54] <pyrotechnick> i've added your nickname to my potential evangelist list :)
  207. # [04:54] <pyrotechnick> if i ever make it or find a good alternative, itll find its way to you
  208. # [04:55] <shepazu> heh… if you're working on an MMO first, I won't hold my breath :)
  209. # [04:55] <pyrotechnick> correct there's no finishing an mmo especially an "open" one
  210. # [04:56] <pyrotechnick> but i have a line drawn in the sand in terms of moving onto another project and delegating maintenance
  211. # [04:56] <pyrotechnick> so there's some kind of end in sight
  212. # [04:57] <pyrotechnick> all is not lost shepazu
  213. # [04:58] <pyrotechnick> i sincerely doubt itll be me anyway, i'm leaving it for much brighter minds and efficient efforts
  214. # [04:59] <pyrotechnick> but my contingency plan remains\
  215. # [04:59] <pyrotechnick> i can dream
  216. # [05:00] <shepazu> pyrotechnick: btw, I forgot that microdata does have a browser-based JS API, so it is indeed meaningful to indicate browser support for it
  217. # [05:00] <pyrotechnick> i suspected
  218. # [05:00] <pyrotechnick> you are forgiven :)
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  220. # [05:01] <pyrotechnick> ill chase down the tickets
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  230. # [05:38] <mike5w3c> I wish we wouldn't refer to html5test.com
  231. # [05:38] <mike5w3c> it's not a reliable source
  232. # [05:39] <pyrotechnick> either you replace it with something better
  233. # [05:39] <pyrotechnick> or deal with it
  234. # [05:39] <pyrotechnick> unfortunately you won't wish it away
  235. # [05:39] <mike5w3c> um
  236. # [05:40] <pyrotechnick> complete this sentence: http://html5test.com/ sucks use X Y or Z instead
  237. # [05:41] <mike5w3c> no thanks
  238. # [05:42] <pyrotechnick> that's what i thought
  239. # [05:42] <mike5w3c> amazing
  240. # [05:42] <mike5w3c> that's what I thought you'd think
  241. # [05:42] <pyrotechnick> quite
  242. # [05:43] <pyrotechnick> what's even the point of coming on irc when we can read eachother's minds
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  304. # [09:24] <@_WiZZarD> morningk
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  311. # [09:31] <@arkhisinameeting> Good morning _WiZZarD
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  345. # [10:33] <mike5w3c> what are the style conventions for adding "See also" links to external pages?
  346. # [10:34] <mike5w3c> can anybody point me to examples of existing pages that have "See also" stuff?
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  349. # [10:35] * mike5w3c takes a look at http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Manual_Of_Style
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  351. # [10:37] <@desbenoit> Good Morning mike5w3c. Here's a page with a See Also : http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/html/elements/input/type/reset#See_Also
  352. # [10:37] * mike5w3c takes a look
  353. # [10:37] <@desbenoit> And a second : http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/concepts/accessibility#See_also
  354. # [10:38] <mike5w3c> great!
  355. # [10:38] <mike5w3c> desbenoit: thanks much
  356. # [10:39] <mike5w3c> hmm I see there's {{See_Also_Section}} in the source of the page I want to edit
  357. # [10:39] <mike5w3c> what's that for?
  358. # [10:40] <mike5w3c> should I remove that when I add the actual See Also content?
  359. # [10:40] <@desbenoit> Can I have a look at the page?
  360. # [10:40] <mike5w3c> desbenoit: http://docs.webplatform.org/w/index.php?title=concepts/programming/javascript/expressions&action=edit
  361. # [10:42] * Parts: inkvizitor68sl (~inky@fsf/member/inkvizitor68sl)
  362. # [10:43] <@desbenoit> It could be great if you use a syntax close to this page: http://docs.webplatform.org/w/index.php?title=concepts/programming/javascript/json&action=edit
  363. # [10:43] <@desbenoit> I hope it helps
  364. # [10:43] <mike5w3c> desbenoit: OK, will do
  365. # [10:44] <mike5w3c> aha
  366. # [10:44] <mike5w3c> cool
  367. # [10:51] <mike5w3c> desbenoit: please take a look at http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/concepts/programming/javascript/expressions#See_Also
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  369. # [10:51] <mike5w3c> and lemme know if that seems OK
  370. # [10:51] <@desbenoit> mike5w3c awesome!
  371. # [10:52] <mike5w3c> cool
  372. # [10:52] <mike5w3c> thanks again
  373. # [10:52] <mike5w3c> I plan to add a bunch more of these in the JS concepts/reference and tutorial sections
  374. # [10:52] <@desbenoit> Great!
  375. # [10:53] <mike5w3c> shepazu: I made my first contribution, chief. I'll let you know where to send the royalty checks.
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  377. # [10:54] <mstalfoort> lol, well done mike5w3c
  378. # [10:54] <@arkhisinameeting> :)
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  380. # [10:54] <mstalfoort> keep up the awesomeness
  381. # [10:54] <mike5w3c> :-)
  382. # [10:54] <mike5w3c> y'all too
  383. # [10:54] <mike5w3c> this thing is gonna be great
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  594. # [18:06] <David_Bradbury> Morning/Afternoon/Evening Platformers
  595. # [18:07] <eighty4> Evening David_Bradbury
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  601. # [18:15] <shepazu> hey, platformers
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  672. # [19:24] <David_Bradbury> Hey leaverou : Two questions - 1) Is there currently, or in the future a plan to include mouse-over previews like the ones in dabblet to prism? 2) Do you think such previews would be considered to be used on the Web Platform site? I think they might be a way to help new coders not only understand the code faster, but make the process more enjoyable
  673. # [19:25] <leaverou> David_Bradbury: hi 1) good idea 2) dabblet itself is going to be used in webplatform :)
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  675. # [19:27] <David_Bradbury> That's very exciting to hear. I'm almost finished getting ready to release by person site/blog, and it will be using Prism/Dabblet for most front-end demo code (unless it requires JS).
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  697. # [19:47] <leaverou> David_Bradbury: awesome! Btw Dabblet will soon allow JS
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  701. # [19:51] <David_Bradbury> Very cool!
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  720. # [20:21] <Fukusama> say
  721. # [20:21] <Fukusama> hello
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  726. # [20:29] <David_Bradbury> hello
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  758. # [21:34] <Bananacupcakenn> test, does it work?
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  761. # [21:35] <lushchick> yup, hi
  762. # [21:35] <Bananacupcake> Guys, does this work? First time ever.
  763. # [21:35] <Bananacupcake> Oh, sorry.. to late
  764. # [21:35] <Bananacupcake> Well thanks.
  765. # [21:36] <Bananacupcake> It might be a stupid question, but right now I'm capable of making a basic HTML / CSS website and Wordpress websites. But how do I bring it to the next level? Any advise on which techniques to learn?
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  768. # [21:40] <lushchick> well, it's all about practice :) You may find some interesting articles on webplatform.org - read some and try
  769. # [21:41] * Ryan_Lane is now known as Ryan|trollfood
  770. # [21:41] <lushchick> it also depends on where do you see the next level: on a client or server side
  771. # [21:41] * Ryan|trollfood is now known as Ryan_Lane
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  773. # [21:43] <Bananacupcake> Ye, i'll browse the website a bit more.
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  777. # [22:00] <Bananacupcake> Lush, I've got a question. Are you still there?
  778. # [22:00] <lushchick> yes
  779. # [22:00] <Bananacupcake> I'm making a contact-form.
  780. # [22:01] <Bananacupcake> I did all the HTML'ing, but now I want to attach some PHP-codes.
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  782. # [22:01] <Bananacupcake> I've got the PHP script saved in a document named script.php
  783. # [22:02] <Bananacupcake> What should I put in my HTML doc now?
  784. # [22:02] <Bananacupcake> <script type="text/php" src="script.php"></script>
  785. # [22:02] <Bananacupcake> ?
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  787. # [22:03] <lushchick> if you want to send a form to your PHP script for further processing, you should add an "action" attribute to your form, and say there action="script.php"
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  789. # [22:04] <lushchick> in script.php you access to the form data via $_POST superglobal, e.g. $_POST['first_name']
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  791. # [22:04] <lushchick> these are really basic things, there are lots of tutorials on the web about it
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  793. # [22:06] <Bananacupcake> Never worked with PHP, sawrry :P
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  795. # [22:06] <Bananacupcake> But thanks, it's still not working, but I'll figure out.
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  870. # Session Close: Tue Oct 23 00:00:00 2012

The end :)