/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2007-06-07 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Jun 07 00:00:00 2007
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  11. # [00:42] <Hixie> the internet is very quiet today
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  15. # [01:07] <Hixie> i wonder if i can resolve the <base> problems by simply waiting a few more months for IE7 to get more market share and for the pages that break to get fixed...
  16. # [01:07] <Dashiva> A tempting plan
  17. # [01:07] <kingryan> but that only works if you don't talk about it, right?
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  19. # [01:08] <othermaciej> Hixie: is there any estimate of how many pages are actually broken, as opposed to just possibly affected?
  20. # [01:09] <othermaciej> (not that I care that much about this issue except that I'd like a resolution)
  21. # [01:09] <Hixie> othermaciej: i couldn't find any pages that were broken that weren't CJK spam or haphazard content aggregation pages.
  22. # [01:10] <Hixie> othermaciej: my last check looked only for pages with multiple different <base href> values with either <a> or <img> elements with relative URIs
  23. # [01:10] <othermaciej> ok
  24. # [01:11] <Hixie> i found about 0.16% pages were affcted
  25. # [01:11] <Hixie> which is non-trivial
  26. # [01:11] <Hixie> oh this included target="" <base>
  27. # [01:12] <Hixie> so that's the wrong number
  28. # [01:12] <Hixie> hold on
  29. # [01:12] <Hixie> oh crap i didn't count how many were affected
  30. # [01:12] <Hixie> duh
  31. # [01:12] <Hixie> oh i see that study was looking specifically for URIs, not trying to get a count
  32. # [01:13] <Hixie> hm, i think i never actually looked at the results of my last study, heh
  33. # [01:15] <Hixie> i'll have to do more work on this
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  35. # [01:18] <Hixie> hsivonen: yt?
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  40. # [01:33] <zcorpan> http://simon.html5.org/temp/periodic-table.png
  41. # [01:35] <zcorpan> er, that was a follow-up for #html-wg
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  56. # [02:57] <zcorpan> it seems that the best way to get good research on something is to spec the opposite of what the majority of people want
  57. # [02:58] <Hixie> hah
  58. # [02:58] <Hixie> i'm really quite impressed, there has been a lot of research done for headers=""
  59. # [02:58] <zcorpan> yeah
  60. # [02:58] <Hixie> what's weird is that none of the research really seems focussed on solving the actual problem
  61. # [02:59] <Hixie> it's mostly about keeping an existing solution without regard to how good it is
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  64. # [03:30] <karlUshi> you know what you have, you never know what you will get.
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  83. # [05:28] <Lachy> hey, is the start attribute for <video> expressed in seconds? The spec doesn't seem to be clear http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#start2
  84. # [05:36] <Lachy> Hixie, yt?
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  92. # [06:40] <Hixie> Lachy: vaguely here
  93. # [06:40] <Hixie> it's games night :-)
  94. # [06:40] <Hixie> can you send mail about the <video> second thing?
  95. # [06:40] <Lachy> yeah, I later
  96. # [06:40] <Lachy> I *will later
  97. # [06:40] <Hixie> cool thanks
  98. # [06:40] <othermaciej> what video thing?
  99. # [06:41] <Hixie> ambiguity in the spec
  100. # [06:41] <Lachy> othermaciej: it's unclear if the value for the start attribute is specified in seconds
  101. # [06:42] <othermaciej> ah
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  103. # [06:52] * Lachy wishes that Opera beta with support for <video> wasn't so damn buggy!
  104. # [06:53] <othermaciej> do they have something closer to the spec now or just their original simple prototype?
  105. # [06:53] <Lachy> in projection mode, the video is strangely getting split in the middle and wrapped to the next line :-/
  106. # [06:54] <othermaciej> hah, line breaks in video
  107. # [06:54] <othermaciej> that's novel :-)
  108. # [06:54] <Lachy> it's alright, I found a work around! :-)
  109. # [06:55] <Lachy> btw, if anyone wants to see the embarrassing video I'm using to demonstrate <video> tonight, see...
  110. # [06:56] <Lachy> http://lachy.id.au/lib/media/2007/wannabe.ogg
  111. # [07:00] <karlUshi> mwahahah "mostly in secret" :) very funny
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  119. # [08:42] <annevk> it's called innovation
  120. # [08:45] <annevk> Lachy, lol
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  122. # [08:50] <hsivonen> Hixie: I'm here now
  123. # [08:55] <annevk> you can rename your service to "HTML5 validator" per the spec :)
  124. # [08:57] * annevk wonders if someone is implementing <command> given that it suddenly got a stable URI
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  141. # [12:04] <mikeday> so, someone needs to rewrite CSS from scratch eh? :)
  142. # [12:04] <annevk> yes
  143. # [12:05] <annevk> do you have a couple of years with at least 40 hours of free time each week?
  144. # [12:05] <hsivonen> Hixie: Minefield says of whatwg.org: The page you are trying to view cannot be shown because it uses an invalid or unsupported form of compression.
  145. # [12:05] <mikeday> heh
  146. # [12:06] <hsivonen> hmm. Firefox works. perhaps someone broke HTTP-level compression in the latest nightly
  147. # [12:06] <annevk> http://twitter.com/cwilso/statuses/93612242
  148. # [12:07] <mikeday> hmm
  149. # [12:07] <mikeday> where is this "real world" of which you speak?
  150. # [12:07] <annevk> hehe
  151. # [12:08] <mikeday> (a world in which specification writers walk as gods amongst men, perhaps? :)
  152. # [12:08] <annevk> it's called WHATWG
  153. # [12:08] * hsivonen hopes the CSS WG transformed itself to a more WHATWG-like group in a non-hostile way
  154. # [12:09] <mikeday> very diplomatic.
  155. # [12:10] <hsivonen> I haven't been following what's going on closely enough but the CSS 2.1 spec certainly seems to have stalled. and it would be great if "CSS5" emerged from the CSS WG itself
  156. # [12:10] <mikeday> I thought CSS 2.1 was supposed to be "CSS5"
  157. # [12:11] <mikeday> in the sense of codifying existing behaviour and expectations
  158. # [12:11] <hsivonen> mikeday: exactly
  159. # [12:11] <mikeday> shame it just shrugs when it comes to table rendering of course, but that could be fixed...
  160. # [12:12] <annevk> they seem to be mostly working on the spec and not on testing if it's correctly implemented and changing the spec if needed
  161. # [12:12] <annevk> the other problem, as Hixie indicated, is that little new stuff that is needed for web apps comes out of the CSS WG, if any
  162. # [12:13] <mikeday> what is the solution?
  163. # [12:14] <mikeday> on a tangent, I've always thought that WHATWG is more fond of JavaScript than CSS
  164. # [12:15] <annevk> the WHATWG is focused on improving the semantic and logical side of the problem
  165. # [12:15] <annevk> there was hope that the CSS WG would solve the stylistic side but that hasn't happened yet
  166. # [12:16] <mikeday> time to revive JSS perhaps? :)
  167. # [12:16] <annevk> there's also need for improving the underlying platforms, such as the DOM and HTTP and maybe the URL specs
  168. # [12:16] <annevk> mikeday, I'm working on a new a version of the CSSOM
  169. # [12:16] <hsivonen> what seems alarming to me is that Hixie as a CSS WG insider says there's a problem and I had thought that the CSS WG was the best functioning WG at the W3C. (this may be an awfully naive though, but that's what I though)
  170. # [12:17] <hsivonen> s/though/thought/
  171. # [12:17] <mikeday> hard to define "best functioning" I guess
  172. # [12:18] <hsivonen> well, let's say the WG whose output had the most World Wide Web relevance
  173. # [12:18] * hsivonen doesn't consider Web Services, private XML systems, Mobile Web and Semantic Web to have that much World Wide Web relevance.
  174. # [12:18] <mikeday> ah, not the XQuery or RDF working groups, then :)
  175. # [12:19] <mikeday> in that case, only HTML and CSS working groups would be relevant, yes?
  176. # [12:19] <mikeday> (and HTML was defunct until recently)
  177. # [12:20] <hsivonen> mikeday: yes. (I was thinking of the pre-new HTML WG situation)
  178. # [12:22] <mikeday> strange when you think of the importance of the web, that it's development is so anarchic
  179. # [12:24] <annevk> that's because if you want to move forward you need implementations
  180. # [12:26] <mikeday> and no single vendor is responsible for the web
  181. # [12:27] <annevk> well, MSIE is mostly responsible for how people code their pages
  182. # [12:27] <annevk> although that has shifted towards other browsers now
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  184. # [12:33] <mikeday> oh well, after the coming apocalypse I guess someone can redesign the web from scratch, and get it right
  185. # [12:34] <Dashiva> The same people who designed the apocalypse, no doubt
  186. # [12:34] <annevk> once we get perfect humans, sure
  187. # [12:36] * mikeday grins
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  190. # [13:24] <annevk> who can edit http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/IRC ?
  191. # [13:29] <Dashiva> 10:12, 6 March 2007 Hixie (Talk | contribs) protected "IRC" (This page keeps being pointlessly spammed. [edit=sysop:move=sysop])
  192. # [13:31] <Dashiva> So the people at http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Special:Listusers?group=sysop
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  194. # [13:41] <annevk> k
  195. # [13:41] <annevk> Lachy?
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  199. # [14:22] <deltab> is semi-protection available?
  200. # [14:23] <deltab> or would it not help with that?
  201. # [14:38] <Dashiva> The edits have been by registered accounts, so not as much
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  208. # [16:00] <annevk> <m> really is only useful for search results I think
  209. # [16:00] <annevk> If you start using it for other things you can no longer use it for search results...
  210. # [16:01] <Dashiva> Indeed
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  219. # [17:08] * Lachy has returned
  220. # [17:09] <Lachy> my presentation went very well!
  221. # [17:09] <annevk> online?
  222. # [17:09] <annevk> also, see above about IRC
  223. # [17:10] <Lachy> I won first prize: Adobe CS3 Suite!
  224. # [17:11] * annevk wonders where Lachy went
  225. # [17:11] <Lachy> I will upload the slides shortly
  226. # [17:11] <annevk> oh, because of the video you made?
  227. # [17:11] <Lachy> yes
  228. # [17:11] <annevk> that was very funny
  229. # [17:11] <Lachy> it was Web Jam 3
  230. # [17:11] <Lachy> yeah, it got huge laughs
  231. # [17:11] <annevk> lots of people?
  232. # [17:11] <Lachy> and I did a live performance at the end by popular demand
  233. # [17:12] <Lachy> that was videod too :-)
  234. # [17:14] <Lachy> I think there were around 70-80 people there
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  236. # [17:16] <Lachy> annevk: what did you want me to add to that IRC page? Did you just want me to update the link to the logs?
  237. # [17:16] <annevk> Lachy, can you fix http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/IRC per Talk:IRC?
  238. # [17:16] <annevk> I think that's about it
  239. # [17:16] <Lachy> ok
  240. # [17:16] <annevk> maybe you guys should make me admin
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  243. # [17:20] <Lachy> annevk: you are now a bureacrat and sysop
  244. # [17:21] <annevk> ooh, new features
  245. # [17:21] <annevk> I'll update the page myself then
  246. # [17:21] <Lachy> ok, I was just about to save it, so wait
  247. # [17:21] <annevk> np
  248. # [17:22] <Lachy> done
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  251. # [17:25] * annevk deletes some spam pages
  252. # [17:35] <annevk> nickshanks, why can't you just use media queries?
  253. # [17:36] <annevk> also, did you take pixel scaling into account (CSS pixel != screen pixel) and such?
  254. # [17:38] * Joins: wakaba_ (n=w@118.166.210.220.dy.bbexcite.jp)
  255. # [17:41] <Lachy> wow! I just read Hixie's rant about the CSSWG. :-)
  256. # [17:41] <annevk> have some spare time the coming years?
  257. # [17:41] <Lachy> not that much time, unfortunately
  258. # [17:42] <zcorpan> does css need a complete rewrite?
  259. # [17:42] <Lachy> there's a lot that needs to be fixed, and quirks mode needs to be defined from scratch
  260. # [17:42] <zcorpan> oh quirks mode indeed
  261. # [17:43] <annevk> zcorpan, dunno really
  262. # [17:43] <annevk> the current spec is quite unclear but I don't really have suggestions ready for making it much more clear
  263. # [17:44] <zcorpan> i was planning on defining quirks mode as merely how it is different from css21
  264. # [17:44] <annevk> maybe by having more exact definitions and algorithms...
  265. # [17:45] <zcorpan> i think it's more productive to work on a test suite for css21 and patch css21 where necessary
  266. # [17:45] <zcorpan> (e.g. the table model)
  267. # [17:45] <zcorpan> than to rewrite the whole thing
  268. # [17:45] <Lachy> from the CSSWG blog: "It is not possible for W3C and the members of its working groups to go search for all possibly relevant articles on the Web." - we seem to be doing quite well with that
  269. # [17:46] <annevk> zcorpan, probably
  270. # [17:46] <zcorpan> Lachy: yeah, it's not very hard to do :)
  271. # [17:46] <annevk> zcorpan, however, there's also need for new features such as a flexible box model etc. and how to integrate those definitions into the rest is quite unclear to me
  272. # [17:46] <Lachy> Hixie gets pingbacks for the spec, zcorpan and I have del.icio.us accts with whatwg tags
  273. # [17:47] * annevk uses blogsearch.google.com and now and then technorati
  274. # [17:47] <Lachy> yeah
  275. # [17:47] <krijn> http://www.google.com/alerts is handy too :)
  276. # [17:47] <zcorpan> i have subscribed to a google blogsearch feed looking for relevant words
  277. # [17:47] <Lachy> it would be cool if we had a WHATWG acct on del.iciou.us that anyone could add to, just like anyone can post to the WHATWG twitter acct.
  278. # [17:48] <Lachy> and then Hixie could use the API to automatically add any article that pings the spec
  279. # [17:50] <zcorpan> the blogsearch has some irrelevant pages, some contain "www.example.org/foo/bar.html5", others contain "(View as HTML5)", and i've found one that has "... what? WG ..." or some such
  280. # [17:54] <zcorpan> http://blogsearch.google.com/blogsearch_feeds?hl=en&q=html5+OR+xhtml5+OR+%22xhtml+5%22+OR+%22whatwg%22+OR+%22what+wg%22+OR+%22web+applications+1%22+OR+%22web+apps+1%22+OR+%22web+forms+2%22&scoring=d&ie=utf-8&num=10&output=atom
  281. # [17:55] <zcorpan> (searching for html-5 gets too many irrelevant hits)
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  290. # [18:05] <annevk> Paul Hoffman++
  291. # [18:05] <annevk> "The status of the new document is *much* less important than its correctness and usability to HTTP implementers."
  292. # [18:06] <Lachy> http://lachy.id.au/dev/presentation/webjam3/
  293. # [18:07] <Lachy> it's built for Opera Show
  294. # [18:07] <annevk> all cool presentations are these days :p
  295. # [18:08] <annevk> it also requires a certain experimental implementation...
  296. # [18:10] <Lachy> btw, annevk, I discovered a strange bug while experimenting with the video in opera. It sometimes split the video in half and word-wrapped it. I hope that's fixed in more recent internal builds
  297. # [18:10] <annevk> feel free to report bugs
  298. # [18:10] <annevk> you're encouraged to report bugs, even :)
  299. # [18:10] <Lachy> I'll create a test case for it and then report it
  300. # [18:11] <annevk> cool
  301. # [18:29] * Joins: hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober)
  302. # [18:36] <nickshanks> annevk: sorry, was not paying attention here
  303. # [18:36] <nickshanks> the HTTP header would be mostly for use outside of CSS
  304. # [18:36] <nickshanks> i used a bad example of actually negotiating a CSS file using it :)
  305. # [18:37] <annevk> images and such are decoded such that one image pixel is one CSS pixel
  306. # [18:37] <annevk> which kind of negates the entire point of high DPI images...
  307. # [18:38] <annevk> unless of course you override the width and height and scale it down in some way...
  308. # [18:38] * Quits: jgraham (n=jgraham@81-86-210-0.dsl.pipex.com) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  309. # [18:46] <annevk> so unless you're changing the way <img> works I'm not sure how it helps much
  310. # [18:51] <Lachy> whatwg.org seems to be down
  311. # [18:51] <billmason> wfm just now
  312. # [18:52] <Lachy> try it again, check you're not loading from chache
  313. # [18:52] <Lachy> *cache
  314. # [18:52] <Lachy> http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/ping.ch?ip=http://www.whawg.org/ gets no response
  315. # [18:52] <billmason> cleared cache, still wfm
  316. # [18:52] <billmason> whawg is misspelled, so one would suppose not :)
  317. # [18:53] <Lachy> oops :-)
  318. # [18:53] <Lachy> I'm too tired, it's nearly 03:00 here ;-)
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  321. # [19:00] <Lachy> I met a guy from the Adobe Flash team at Web Jam tonight, and had the greatest trouble trying to explain why effectively requiring flash for interoperably embedding video, and why the MPEG, etc. software patents were a major issue
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  333. # [20:20] <Hixie> annevk: it needed a stable uri for my blog post ;-)
  334. # [20:21] <annevk> ah, fair enough :)
  335. # [20:21] <annevk> didn't think of that!
  336. # [20:22] <Hixie> hsivonen: the CSSWG is the best functioning group of the W3C, with maybe the exception of WebAPI, WAF, and HTML, which are working about as well.
  337. # [20:23] * Joins: KevinMarks (i=KevinMar@nat/google/x-175d3a6d954ed005)
  338. # [20:23] <hsivonen> Hixie: ok
  339. # [20:24] <annevk> Hixie, now you're here, what's the reason for bimorphic content models?
  340. # [20:24] * Philip` was thinking of changing the spec-splitter to just split on <h2> and at various human-chosen <h3>s, so it wouldn't end up with tiny pages, but that'd destabilise all the page names again
  341. # [20:25] <Hixie> annevk: it's to allow people to put inline content inside <div>s, <li>s, etc, instead of requiring <p>s everywhere
  342. # [20:26] <annevk> Why isn't <div>test<p>test</p></div> allowed?
  343. # [20:27] <annevk> Philip`, maybe you should generate a .htaccess at the same time that generates 302 redirects for old pages
  344. # [20:27] <annevk> Hixie, like %Flow from HTML5
  345. # [20:27] <annevk> HTML4
  346. # [20:29] <Hixie> what would the first piece of text mean?
  347. # [20:29] <Hixie> if the second is a paragraph, why would the first not be?
  348. # [20:29] <Hixie> e.g. consider <ol> <li> <em> Hello </em> <p> World </p> </li> </ol> -- what are the semantics of that?
  349. # [20:29] <Hixie> I don't understand what it means for inline content to be next to block content
  350. # [20:30] <annevk> a div with some text followed by a paragraph
  351. # [20:30] <annevk> that would be some emphased text followed by a paragraph
  352. # [20:30] <annevk> it doesn't look very good though
  353. # [20:31] <Hixie> why isn't <body> Text </body> allowed?
  354. # [20:32] <annevk> dunno
  355. # [20:32] <Hixie> basically it's always been my impression that the allowing of mixed inline and block content at the same level was a bug in HTML4
  356. # [20:32] <Hixie> one of the things that didn't get fixed in strict
  357. # [20:32] <Hixie> (<body> Text </body> is allowed in HTML4 Transitional but not strict, but <div> Text <p/> </div> is allowed in both)
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  364. # [20:50] <annevk> did someone introduce a bug in html5lib?
  365. # [20:50] <annevk> it barfs at me
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  368. # [21:03] <annevk> hmm, <legend> outside <fieldset> is _badly_ parsed
  369. # [21:04] <annevk> I wonder if that's required or not
  370. # [21:07] <zcorpan_> annevk: how is it parsed?
  371. # [21:07] <annevk> Opera: void tag
  372. # [21:07] <annevk> Firefox: ignored
  373. # [21:07] <annevk> IE: void tag
  374. # [21:07] <annevk> that's for <legend>
  375. # [21:08] <annevk> </legend> is ignored by Opera and Firefox and IE makes it a void tag
  376. # [21:08] * Quits: KevinMarks (i=KevinMar@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) ("The computer fell asleep")
  377. # [21:09] <zcorpan_> ok
  378. # [21:09] <zcorpan_> also in quirks mode?
  379. # [21:09] <annevk> let me test
  380. # [21:09] <annevk> Opera: yes
  381. # [21:10] <annevk> other browsers: yes
  382. # [21:10] * Joins: briansuda (n=briansud@82.221.34.106)
  383. # [21:10] <Hixie> yeah it's almost as bad as <caption>
  384. # [21:11] <Hixie> we might have issues with <figure>
  385. # [21:11] <Hixie> i hope not, but...
  386. # [21:11] <zcorpan_> in firefox i get a parent FIELDSET
  387. # [21:11] <annevk> <figure> works
  388. # [21:11] <annevk> except in IE
  389. # [21:11] <Hixie> i mean <figure>'s use of <legend>
  390. # [21:11] * annevk was testing in Firefox trunk
  391. # [21:11] <annevk> Hixie, that doesn't
  392. # [21:12] <zcorpan_> but not always... for <div><legend> it is ignored
  393. # [21:14] <annevk> oh right
  394. # [21:14] <annevk> just <legend> gives you that
  395. # [21:14] <annevk> that's fucked up
  396. # [21:14] <zcorpan_> yeah
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  398. # [21:14] * Quits: aroben_ (n=adamrobe@17.255.104.88) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  399. # [21:15] * annevk wonders what Safari does
  400. # [21:15] <annevk> anyone care to run http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3Clegend%3Ex%3C/legend%3E through Safari (tot)?
  401. # [21:18] * Quits: zcorpan (n=zcorpan@84-216-41-183.sprayadsl.telenor.se) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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  403. # [21:32] <MikeSmith> annevk - got it up now in tot WebKit/Safari
  404. # [21:33] * Joins: aroben (n=adamrobe@17.255.104.88)
  405. # [21:33] <yod> different tree than firefox though
  406. # [21:35] <MikeSmith> yod, yeah
  407. # [21:35] <annevk> MikeSmith, what's the tree?
  408. # [21:35] <yod> html
  409. # [21:36] <yod> body
  410. # [21:36] <yod> text x
  411. # [21:36] <yod> #text x, rather
  412. # [21:36] <yod> innerhtml has <!DOCTYPE HTML><html><body>x</body></html>
  413. # [21:37] <annevk> ah, so <legend> is trimmed
  414. # [21:37] <annevk> I guess that pretty much settles the faith of <legend>...
  415. # [21:37] <MikeSmith> annevk - yeah, what yod says
  416. # [21:38] <yod> yeh, trimmed, whereas firefox assumes there is a fieldset around it
  417. # [21:38] <annevk> Firefox only does that in certain weird cases...
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  421. # [21:51] <rubys> annevk: ping?
  422. # [21:51] <annevk> pong
  423. # [21:52] <rubys> I'm seeing 10 failures in the python tests with your latest commit
  424. # [21:52] <annevk> hmm
  425. # [21:52] <annevk> I was hoping it would be error free :(
  426. # [21:52] <annevk> But I couldn't get the tests to run properly
  427. # [21:54] <rubys> http://intertwingly.net/tmp/html5lib.log
  428. # [21:55] <annevk> Where is the "<" from?
  429. # [21:56] <rubys> look at the last test in tests/tree-construction/tests3.dat
  430. # [21:56] <annevk> a
  431. # [21:56] <annevk> one sec
  432. # [21:57] <annevk> can you run svn update and run the tests again?
  433. # [21:57] <annevk> I think I'm missing some dependencies here
  434. # [21:58] <rubys> python tests now pass
  435. # [21:58] <annevk> thanks for pinging :)
  436. # [21:58] <annevk> guess ruby might have a failure now for those
  437. # [21:58] <rubys> just curious, do you have an opinion on whether other languages should be separate projects or not?
  438. # [21:59] <annevk> not really
  439. # [21:59] <annevk> I know there's a separate C and Java project going on
  440. # [21:59] <annevk> although I've the feeling the Java one is more actively developed
  441. # [22:00] <rubys> links?
  442. # [22:01] <annevk> Java parser is developed by hsivonen: http://hsivonen.iki.fi/validator-about/ (not sure there's source code online yet)
  443. # [22:01] <rubys> validator is a bit of a different beast
  444. # [22:01] <annevk> Michael Day was doing one in C on sf
  445. # [22:02] <annevk> rubys, yes, but he's writing a parser with full error recovery
  446. # [22:02] <annevk> http://libhtml.sourceforge.net/ is the C one
  447. # [22:02] <annevk> rubys, you should be able to use his Java parser separately from the conformance checker
  448. # [22:03] <annevk> as a library
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  450. # [22:03] <rubys> is it just a tokenizer, or will it do things like the adoption agency algorithm?
  451. # [22:04] <annevk> full HTML parser
  452. # [22:04] <annevk> including input stream, tokenization and tree construction as I understand it
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  455. # [22:06] <annevk> He'll be using the tests from html5lib
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  471. # [23:05] <chiptmatt> Afternoon, gang
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  477. # [23:18] <chiptmatt> It's always great to sit back and just take in the intellectual conversation
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  480. # [23:26] <zcorpan_> chiptmatt: afternoon
  481. # [23:26] <chiptmatt> Ahh, life on the channel!
  482. # [23:28] * Quits: weinigLap (n=weinig@17.255.98.62) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  483. # [23:42] <chiptmatt> so, zcorpan_, are you a regular here?
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  487. # [23:52] <zcorpan_> chiptmatt: yeah
  488. # [23:55] <chiptmatt> Hixie's post about the CSS working group has me inspired.
  489. # Session Close: Fri Jun 08 00:00:00 2007

The end :)