/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2007-10-10 / end

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  4. # [00:13] <Hixie> hsivonen: "in a head element" is different than "where metadata elements are expected" because other specs might expect metadata elements
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  70. # [09:59] <hsivonen> Hixie: how do you envision other specs would use HTML5 "metadata elements"?
  71. # [10:00] <hsivonen> Hixie: if Modularization has taught us anything, it is that those who reuse a vocabulary pick and choose what they want instead of doing what the designer of the vocabulary wanted
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  172. # [23:04] <Hixie> i guess i don't understand why people want height/width but not bgcolor, borderstyle, etc
  173. # [23:04] <Hixie> (on video)
  174. # [23:07] <othermaciej> based on usage on img and object presumably
  175. # [23:08] <gsnedders> Hixie: I wouldn't expect the latter, I would expect the former.
  176. # [23:08] <Hixie> wouldn't that also argue for <font>, border="", cellpadding="", bgcolor="", alink="", a host of other features that are widely recognised as being a bad idea?
  177. # [23:08] <Hixie> gsnedders: i don't understand why
  178. # [23:08] <gsnedders> Hixie: because I want to control the height/width of the video more often than anything else
  179. # [23:09] <gsnedders> Hixie: I don't think anyone wants them as conforming
  180. # [23:09] <othermaciej> height/width are very common needs for embedded media and often related to properties of the media item itself
  181. # [23:09] <othermaciej> border width and background color are rare needs and more about pure styling
  182. # [23:11] <Hixie> what dimensions should the object have when the attributes aren't present?
  183. # [23:12] <gsnedders> either 100% of the container (whichever is reached first keeping the aspect ratio the same as the source), or 100% of the source
  184. # [23:12] <gsnedders> I'd lean towards 100% of the source
  185. # [23:13] <Hixie> what if there's no source?
  186. # [23:13] <Hixie> what if the source is HD but the user has a 1024x768 screen?
  187. # [23:13] <othermaciej> intrinsic size when there is a source, whatever img would do with no source when there is no source
  188. # [23:14] <gsnedders> Hixie: do what <img> does.
  189. # [23:14] <othermaciej> presumably people would use the attributes to avoid badness for super huge videos on small screens
  190. # [23:14] <Hixie> img would fall back to alt="", which we've already established is not what we want for <video>, we want an "empty" video to just be a video player with no loaded content
  191. # [23:14] <Philip`> People on smallish screens can use their browser's 'zoom out' function
  192. # [23:15] <Hixie> Philip`: then they can no longer read the comments next to the video
  193. # [23:15] <Philip`> Then they can zoom in again to read it
  194. # [23:15] <othermaciej> then maybe video with no source gets some default intrinsic size (200 x 100 or whatever) if no size is specified by either attributes or CSS
  195. # [23:15] <Philip`> (I always do the opposite of that on YouTube, since the videos there are displayed too small :-( )
  196. # [23:16] <Philip`> (though I never read the comments next to the video, because they're YouTube comments)
  197. # [23:17] <Philip`> (which is a kind of unique internet culture that I generally want nothing to do with :-) )
  198. # [23:17] <Philip`> (but, er, that's not relevant to any point)
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  200. # [23:22] <Hixie> k well i guess we'll have height/width attributes on <video>, and have the element autosize to content when it has loaded content
  201. # [23:22] <Hixie> i'm not 100% sure what we should do to empty <video> elements though
  202. # [23:22] <Hixie> and i don't like it :-)
  203. # [23:24] <Hixie> maybe it should default to 300x150 like other replaced content
  204. # [23:24] <Hixie> that would at least be nice and consistent with CSS
  205. # [23:24] * Quits: dev0 (i=Tobias@unaffiliated/icefox0) ("dev0 has no reason")
  206. # [23:32] <Dashiva> Suppose 18:9 isn't that far away from 16:9 either
  207. # [23:33] * Quits: weinig_ (n=weinig@17.203.15.140) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  208. # [23:34] <doublec> The feedback from people I've demoed video to has been they like the size of the element to default to the size of the video src if it's not specified.
  209. # [23:34] <doublec> for no src, a default size like othermaciej said seems reasonable
  210. # [23:39] * Joins: KevinMarks (i=KevinMar@nat/google/x-301af9410ed58d9c)
  211. # [23:45] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@17.255.98.11)
  212. # [23:53] * Quits: weinig (n=weinig@17.255.108.225)
  213. # [23:56] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@17.255.98.11)
  214. # [23:58] * Joins: epeus (n=KevinMar@216.239.45.19)
  215. # Session Close: Thu Oct 11 00:00:01 2007

The end :)