/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2008-10-10 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Oct 10 00:00:00 2008
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  8. # [00:09] <BenMillard> that "Horrifically bad technology" has moments which remind me of getting fiddly CSS layouts to rendering correctly cross-browser
  9. # [00:09] <BenMillard> difference being the implementations are what make CSS hard while it's the standards which make XML hard
  10. # [00:12] <BenMillard> Hixie, 2 links in a heading separated by a comma in the <h2> which starts “Social network portability”: http://alastairc.ac/2008/09/dconstruct-2008-notes/
  11. # [00:13] <BenMillard> Hixie, on that page, before scripts execute, with attribute values trimmed: <h2 id><a href>Social network portability</a>, <a href=""><cite>Tantek Çelik</cite></a></h2>
  12. # [00:22] <Hixie> i guess that makes sense, except for the misuse of cite (per html5)
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  20. # [00:42] * BenMillard notices the link to OE-QuoteFix right at the end of the WHATWG FAQ and downloads it.
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  22. # [00:48] <hober> BenMillard: it's pretty nice--I've been using it for a few months and it manages to do the right thing most of the time
  23. # [00:51] <BenMillard> hober, it isn't as integrated into OE as I was hoping.
  24. # [00:52] <BenMillard> and it doesn't untangle quotes which have been tangled by colleagues and companies
  25. # [00:52] <BenMillard> removing the big lump of header data and moving the insertion point below the message is already proving useful, though
  26. # [00:53] <hober> *nod*
  27. # [00:53] <BenMillard> oh, actually it doesn't move the insertion point
  28. # [00:55] <hober> It's not as good as `gnus-article-outlook-deuglify-article', but then again, what is? :)
  29. # [00:55] <BenMillard> hober, is that an actual thing or a joke?
  30. # [00:55] <hober> it's an actual Gnus command, bound to W Y f
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  33. # [00:58] <BenMillard> "Treat dumbquotes, unwrap lines, repair attribution and rearrange citation." -- http://quimby.gnus.org/gnus/manual/big-gnus.html
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  36. # [00:59] <hober> It does a *remarkably* good job of it, too.
  37. # [00:59] <BenMillard> hober, the manual is giving me that impression as well :)
  38. # [01:00] <BenMillard> an Outlook Express that untangles things in a seamless way would be awesome...I'll nose around what's available after the TPAC
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  46. # [02:03] <Hixie> can i drop <textarea accept="">?
  47. # [02:03] <Hixie> or is anyone actually going to implement anything useful with it?
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  56. # [02:57] <erlehmann_> Hixie: i'd use it as a complement for server side validating of (X)HTML content.
  57. # [02:57] <erlehmann_> Hixie: many blogs accept (X)HTML, but to not advertise it.
  58. # [02:59] <Hixie> hm?
  59. # [03:00] <Hixie> still to do: form submission, validity constraints api, encoding form data, data templates
  60. # [03:00] <Hixie> getting there!
  61. # [03:00] <Hixie> form submission attributes, rather, form submission itself is done
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  64. # [03:14] <erlehmann_> Hixie: "hm?" what type of comment is that ?
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  66. # [03:17] <BenMillard> erlehmann_, it probably meant "Hmm? How would that work?"
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  71. # [03:34] <Hixie> erlehmann_: why would accept="" be relevant for that?
  72. # [03:35] <erlehmann_> can't i specify accept="application/xhtml+xml" and the browser would hint that to the user ?
  73. # [03:35] <Hixie> sure, but is any browser going to implement it?
  74. # [03:37] <erlehmann_> dunno. i'd probably rely on @pattern, with horrendous results
  75. # [03:38] <Hixie> <textarea pattern=""> is gone too actually :-)
  76. # [03:38] <erlehmann_> wat
  77. # [03:39] <erlehmann_> no wai
  78. # [03:39] <erlehmann_> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-forms/current-work/#the-pattern
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  80. # [03:39] <erlehmann_> "and for the textarea element"
  81. # [03:39] <Hixie> yeah i dropped it in the transfer to html5
  82. # [03:39] <Hixie> couldn't find a good use case for it
  83. # [03:40] <erlehmann_> validating BBcode ?
  84. # [03:41] <erlehmann_> that's the most obvious thing
  85. # [03:42] <erlehmann_> willyoubutitbackplease ?
  86. # [03:42] <Hixie> can that even be done using regexps?
  87. # [03:42] <erlehmann_> lemme think.
  88. # [03:42] <Hixie> don't ask for things before you even know if they'll work for the reason you ask for them :-)
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  90. # [03:43] <erlehmann_> well, i think it can work
  91. # [03:43] <Hixie> i can't see a pretty way to do it
  92. # [03:43] <Hixie> i'd imagine that custom JS with the setValidity() method would be much more effective
  93. # [03:43] <erlehmann_> [list of bbcodes] + [list of other characters] combined with wildcard = win ?
  94. # [03:44] <erlehmann_> like (let me build it)
  95. # [03:44] <Hixie> show me what the value of pattern="" would be. :-)
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  98. # [03:52] <erlehmann_> wait. regexes are only capable of describing a chomsky type-3 language. what i want, is to correctly parse a type-2 language.
  99. # [03:53] <erlehmann_> therefore, i can absolutely not count opening and corresponding closing brackets with regular expressions, right ?
  100. # [03:54] <BenMillard> erlehmann_, that problem is something of a classic, although Philip` might have some ideas.
  101. # [03:54] <erlehmann_> :(
  102. # [03:54] <Hixie> like i said, not sure pattern="" is useful for <textarea>. :-)
  103. # [03:54] <erlehmann_> Hixie: you win. and again, i'm no match for the masters of the internet.
  104. # [03:55] <erlehmann_> BenMillard: nesting is the problem, i think. without nesting, no counting ...
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  106. # [03:56] <erlehmann_> but what's with stuff like "enter a list of $stuff"
  107. # [03:57] <erlehmann_> though some of it becomes obsolete through the "add input" buttons, simply copying and pasting dozens of URLs into a textarea is easy at times
  108. # [03:57] <erlehmann_> gmail uses it
  109. # [03:58] <erlehmann_> and i recently encountered a guy who basically made trac tickets from CSV data
  110. # [03:59] <BenMillard> CSV is teh pwn
  111. # [03:59] <BenMillard> I much prefer it to XML
  112. # [03:59] <erlehmann_> (gmail uses it for mail adresses, of course)
  113. # [03:59] <erlehmann_> lol
  114. # [03:59] <erlehmann_> say, do you also prefer .INI over JSON ?
  115. # [04:00] <erlehmann_> :D
  116. # [04:01] <Hixie> well crap
  117. # [04:01] <Hixie> <form action=""> has nutty resolution semanics
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  119. # [04:05] <BenMillard> erlehmann_, I prefer .ini over the Windows registry. Haven't used JSON.
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  123. # [04:25] <Hixie> still to do: validity constraints api, encoding form data, removing data templates
  124. # [04:32] * Quits: weinig (n=weinig@17.203.15.250)
  125. # [04:32] <Hixie> still to do: validity constraints api, encoding form data
  126. # [04:32] <Hixie> nearly done!
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  129. # [04:45] <BenMillard> Hixie, what do you think of the alt text for the two images in main content here: http://calthorpepark.hants.sch.uk/news/2008/points.htm
  130. # [04:45] <BenMillard> (and anyone else who's interested)
  131. # [04:48] <Hixie> the alt text is ok, but the paragraph before the first image isn't
  132. # [04:48] <Hixie> for non-visual users it reads:
  133. # [04:48] <Hixie> The first chart shows Marie Currie in the lead at the moment, but only just!
  134. # [04:48] <Hixie> Marie Curie lead with nearly 1,000 points. They are followed by Sommerville, Kilby and Da Vinci.
  135. # [04:48] <Hixie> At the start of the term all Houses started from zero points.
  136. # [04:49] <BenMillard> Hixie, hmm...the alt text was written by me, the surrounding text comes from staff
  137. # [04:49] <BenMillard> is it the repetition you don't like?
  138. # [04:49] <Hixie> well there's no graph
  139. # [04:50] <BenMillard> oh, I see
  140. # [04:50] <Hixie> or chart rather
  141. # [04:50] <BenMillard> what if I remove "The first chart shows"?
  142. # [04:50] <BenMillard> (and adjust grammar to suit)
  143. # [04:51] <BenMillard> Marie Currie are in the lead at the moment, but only just!
  144. # [04:51] <Hixie> sounds good to me :-)
  145. # [04:51] <Hixie> the alt text could also give the number for the others, e.g. They are followed by Sommerville (300), Kilby (200) and Da Vinci (100).
  146. # [04:52] <BenMillard> Hixie, I wasn't given the exact values yet but when I get them, I can add them.
  147. # [04:52] <BenMillard> I agree with putting parenthese around them, too :)
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  156. # [06:38] <Hixie> still to do: encoding form data
  157. # [06:51] <famicom> hah
  158. # [06:51] <famicom> just add support for base64
  159. # [06:55] <BenMillard> Hixie, isn't it your bedtime? or are you offsetting your sleep cycle for TPAC?
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  162. # [07:34] <Hixie> BenMillard: my bedtime? it's not even 11 yet. i normally go to bed around 4am.
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  164. # [07:40] <BenMillard> Hixie, oh I forgot which timezone you're inj
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  200. # [11:29] <Philip`> erlehmann_: You can't do /(x*)y\1/ with theoretical regular expressions either (for the same reason you can't test for matching brackets), but practical implementations don't care about that theory :-)
  201. # [11:29] <erlehmann_> Philip`: tell me more.
  202. # [11:30] <Philip`> (but most practical implementations still don't support testing for matching brackets)
  203. # [11:30] <Philip`> erlehmann_: What kind of more?
  204. # [11:31] <erlehmann_> practical implementations don't care ?
  205. # [11:32] <Philip`> Regular expression theory doesn't contain backreferences like \1, but they're (relatively) easy to implement and useful so everyone implements them anyway
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  211. # [12:23] <takkaria> though implementations without them can run way way faster
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  214. # [12:34] * Philip` is reminded of http://blog.mozilla.com/dmandelin/2008/10/06/squirrelfishing-in-regexp-dnajs/
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  222. # [13:38] <hsivonen_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jun/0173.html
  223. # [13:46] <hsivonen_> Re: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2008/09/23-minutes : I wonder what "Losses of engineering quality" refers to
  224. # [14:02] <Philip`> "<timbl> I think it is important that the cases which don't meet the IRI spec are referred to as errors, even if the errors are ignored in HTML5 browser handling" - isn't that what http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/infrastructure.html#valid-url is about?
  225. # [14:04] <hsivonen_> I'm not sure what this clean/not-clean concern is about. I wonder if I should ask.
  226. # [14:05] <raspberry-lemon> html5: halal or haram?!?
  227. # [14:06] <Philip`> hsivonen_: I assumed it was the usual distinction of valid HTML which authors should be told about / error handling of invalid HTML which browsers should be told about and should be hidden from authors
  228. # [14:07] <Dashiva> Apparently they want to split HTML5 into XHTML5 and HTML5-Tidy
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  231. # [14:08] <Philip`> Dashiva: That sounds quite like how HTML5 works already, if you read "XHTML5" as "DOM" and "HTML5-Tidy" as "the HTML5 parsing algorithm"
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  233. # [14:09] <Philip`> at least in the sense of converting into a form that is guaranteed to be free from syntax errors
  234. # [14:09] <Dashiva> Philip`: Except the parsing algorithm also parses the clean markup
  235. # [14:09] <Philip`> (because it has no syntax)
  236. # [14:09] <Philip`> Dashiva: HTML5-Tidy processes clean markup too
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  238. # [14:10] <Dashiva> But it's not needed for it
  239. # [14:10] <Dashiva> DOM alone is pretty useless :)
  240. # [14:10] <Philip`> You can generate the DOM from scripts, without involving the parser much at all :-)
  241. # [14:11] <Philip`> Anyway, I'm wrong and I see your point :-)
  242. # [14:11] <Dashiva> But, but... then we can't continue
  243. # [14:11] <Dashiva> If I wanted to see a conspiracy, I'd say the tag wants to split the clean and non-clean so they can later deprecate the non-clean, or say people should only implement the clean :)
  244. # [14:13] * Quits: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@FLH1Aea239.fko.mesh.ad.jp) ("Less talk, more pimp walk.")
  245. # [14:14] <Philip`> I'd guess it's just because uncleanliness offends their sensibilities, and they want the W3C to be producing nice technologies, not HTML5
  246. # [14:15] <Philip`> Mr Last Week: Could you change your visited-link and date-line colour? It's very hard to read against the background, at least on my monitor with the sun shining on it
  247. # [14:16] <Dashiva> jar: Balance of power is different. In C the language had no power relative to the "browsers" (CPUs), so new CPUs could dictate language changes
  248. # [14:17] <Dashiva> I don't see how it's so very different now
  249. # [14:17] * Philip` can't think of any examples of how C changed because of CPUs
  250. # [14:19] <hsivonen_> Philip`: CPU development has caused non-standard vectorization extensions to C, AFAIK
  251. # [14:20] <Philip`> I suppose that's true, but C specifically allows compilers to do that kind of thing
  252. # [14:20] <Philip`> It's just distributed extensibility, using the __ prefix to avoid collisions with future versions of the standard language
  253. # [14:21] <Philip`> And those extensions are just adding datatypes and things that look like library functions, and aren't really changing the language
  254. # [14:22] <Philip`> Oh, there's OpenMP which I guess is a more significant change to the language
  255. # [14:23] <Philip`> but that's got Open in its name so it must be a nice non-proprietary standard, and it isn't CPU-specific at all
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  257. # [14:24] <Philip`> (and it's even backward-compatible)
  258. # [14:26] * Joins: ROBOd (n=robod@89.122.216.38)
  259. # [14:30] <hsivonen_> I guess Objective-C is just distributed extensibility, too, then?
  260. # [14:31] <Philip`> That's just a new language
  261. # [14:34] <hsivonen_> but every valid C program is a valid Objective-C program, right?
  262. # [14:40] <Philip`> Quite possibly
  263. # [14:41] <Philip`> but the difference is that it's called Objective-C, not C
  264. # [14:41] <Philip`> and nobody release software they claim is a C compiler, when actually it's an Objective-C compiler
  265. # [14:41] <Philip`> *releases
  266. # [14:41] * MikeSmith prefers "Subjective C"
  267. # [14:42] <MikeSmith> "Objective C" would be a good name for a rapper
  268. # [14:42] <jcranmer> Surjective?
  269. # [14:42] <Philip`> so it's very different to releasing a C compiler, which happens to have been extended with some new features
  270. # [14:44] * hsivonen_ is now known as hsivonen
  271. # [14:44] <Philip`> Objective C is the bunker on the left which we'll clear out once enemy resistance at the first two objectives has been suppressed
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  273. # [14:52] <MikeSmith> Philip`: heh
  274. # [14:56] <hsivonen> well. I sent email asking what was meant with separation of clean and not-clean
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  295. # [16:44] <annevk2> from DreamHost: "A suggestion you voted against has been marked completed!" yay, I'm all excited
  296. # [16:45] <annevk2> lol, the e-mail even suggests to re-submit the idea in case it was not completed to my satisfaction
  297. # [16:49] <zcorpan> what was the suggestion?
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  310. # [17:19] <gfan> Hi, all. I am new to WHATWG and interested in Mobile Device API. Can someone tell me where to find out current WHATWG's efforts on Mobile Device API? Are there any cooperation between WHATWG and OpenAjax on Deviec API? Thanks.
  311. # [17:20] <annevk2> we're currently not working on such a thing and there are no plans afaik
  312. # [17:21] <gfan> annevk2: thanks. does WHATWG have some work on geolocation?
  313. # [17:22] <Lachy_> gfan, I'm fairly sure that the geolocation work is within the W3C, not the WHATWG
  314. # [17:23] <gfan> lachy_: thanks.
  315. # [17:23] <hasather> gfan: http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/
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  328. # [18:25] * gsnedders has no idea whether he'll be online from tomorrow till Sunday next week
  329. # [18:26] <gsnedders> So if anyone wants to tell me anything before TPAC, either tell me now or phone me
  330. # [18:32] <ehird> gsnedders: donkeys!
  331. # [18:33] <erlehmann__> HURR DURR I'M A WEB BROWSER
  332. # [18:33] <ehird> erlehmann__: :DDDDDDDD
  333. # [18:35] <takkaria> http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/09/25/apple_proposes_improvements_to_safari_browsing_experience.html is interesting
  334. # [18:35] <takkaria> they seem to be patenting a bit of the workings of the video tag :)
  335. # [18:39] <gsnedders> brb
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  349. # [19:56] <gsnedders> hahahaha at my appearance on lastweekinhtml5
  350. # [20:01] * Philip` hates it when adding a single line to his LaTeX document makes it suddenly become ten lines larger than the page limit
  351. # [20:03] <Philip`> (But yesterday it was 1.5 pages over the limit, so it's not doing too badly)
  352. # [20:10] <Philip`> Is it typical for French books to have the text on their spine the opposite way around to English books?
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  361. # [20:53] <john_fallows> i see in the Server-sent Events section that servers are expected to send a "keep-alive" comment to prevent intermediate proxy servers from closing an otherwise dormant connection
  362. # [20:55] <john_fallows> how do we ensure that event latency is not adversely affected by intermediate proxy buffering?
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  364. # [20:56] <Hixie> john_fallows: i am not aware of any way to avoid intermediate proxies from screwing everything up
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  366. # [20:58] <john_fallows> would it help to specify that the browser should setup a tunnel with HTTP CONNECT first?
  367. # [20:58] <Hixie> so... who wants to be on the TPAC panel talking about the webarch document
  368. # [20:58] <Hixie> john_fallows: you can do that with WebSockets
  369. # [20:59] <Hixie> john_fallows: having them be different allows you to pick the one that works the best for a particular situation
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  371. # [20:59] <Hixie> john_fallows: (dynamically)
  372. # [20:59] <Hixie> though frankly i've been tempted to just drop server-sent events altogether
  373. # [21:01] <john_fallows> i think Server-sent Events has a number of compelling features, and a clean integration with the browser event model
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  375. # [21:02] <Hixie> so does WebSocket
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  377. # [21:03] <john_fallows> yeah, but the events in WebSocket are not driven by the content, and can never be because it doesn't standardize the protocol (beyond framing), nor would it make sense to do so
  378. # [21:05] <john_fallows> also, Server-sent Events can recover from a broken TCP connection, making it very useful for broadcast failover
  379. # [21:07] <john_fallows> btw, we just released our WebSocket server on kaazing.org in case you are interested
  380. # [21:09] <john_fallows> there are clearly benefits to having Server-sent Events with a standard protocol syntax targeted at broadcast scenarios
  381. # [21:09] <john_fallows> and WebSockets with no standard payload syntax, targeted at bidirectional communication
  382. # [21:09] <john_fallows> almost like having UDP and TCP :-)
  383. # [21:13] <Hixie> fair enough :-)
  384. # [21:13] <franksalim> Hixie, john_fallows: i think the most compelling reason to keep SSE in addition to WS is that SSE is still HTTP and can be driven by current web servers
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  386. # [21:14] <john_fallows> true - whereas WebSocket just uses HTTP-compatible bytes for the handshake
  387. # [21:17] <john_fallows> specifying HTTP CONNECT for Server-sent Events would seem to address the potential buffering issue though
  388. # [21:19] <Hixie> please send e-mail to the list to remind me to look into it
  389. # [21:19] <john_fallows> ok, sounds good - will do.
  390. # [21:19] <Hixie> but i'm not sure if we'll be able to do that -- if that worked, why wouldn't browsers just do that for all connections?
  391. # [21:23] <john_fallows> i suppose not all connections have a requirement to minimize latency of incremental parts of the response
  392. # [21:23] <john_fallows> i'll organize my thoughts and send an email to the list
  393. # [21:30] <john_fallows> btw, i'll also send a separate email regarding server-initiated flush to force a client acknowledgment and immediate reconnect, without affecting recovery timeout in network or server failure scenario
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  420. # [23:19] <Philip`> annevk: Is it possible to set up wildcard domains on html5.org, like to make *.philip.html5.org equivalent to philip.html5.org?
  421. # [23:22] <Philip`> (or possibly to make them all point to some other server, if Dreamhost doesn't let you make the web server handle all those domains)
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  424. # [23:23] <gsnedders> Hixie: ping
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  426. # [23:23] <gsnedders> BenMillard: ping
  427. # [23:24] * erlehmann__ is now known as erlehmann
  428. # [23:24] <Hixie> gsnedders: in meeting but here
  429. # [23:25] <gsnedders> Hixie: Need I bring any PS2 stuff? You have two controllers?
  430. # [23:25] <Hixie> i was gonna ask you the same question
  431. # [23:25] <Hixie> i don't plan to bring anything
  432. # [23:25] <Hixie> unless you want me to
  433. # [23:26] <Hixie> (i have to go through the US customs so the less i bring the better)
  434. # [23:26] <gsnedders> Hixie: Do you have GT4?
  435. # [23:26] <Hixie> um
  436. # [23:26] <Hixie> maybe
  437. # [23:26] <Hixie> not sure
  438. # [23:26] <Hixie> if i do i haven't unlocked anything
  439. # [23:27] <gsnedders> Heh.
  440. # [23:27] <gsnedders> There's only really any point in you bringing PS2 if we have two copies of GT4 so we can have it running over LAN and not split-screen
  441. # [23:27] <gsnedders> As for not unlocking anything, I can bring memory card (my disk of it is screwed, and I can't bring my PS2 with me, mainly because it's old-style bulk)
  442. # [23:28] <Hixie> i'd really rather not bring my ps2
  443. # [23:28] <Hixie> but we'll see
  444. # [23:28] <gsnedders> On the whole, I'd say don't bother
  445. # [23:29] * Quits: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@FLH1Aea239.fko.mesh.ad.jp) ("Less talk, more pimp walk.")
  446. # [23:29] <Hixie> k
  447. # [23:33] * Joins: jtcranmer (n=jcranmer@r77h127.res.gatech.edu)
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  454. # [23:49] * Joins: BenMillard (n=cerbera@cpc1-flee1-0-0-cust285.glfd.cable.ntl.com)
  455. # [23:49] <BenMillard> gsnedders, still here?
  456. # [23:50] <gsnedders> BenMillard: yea
  457. # [23:50] <BenMillard> gsnedders, just saw you pinged me in the logs
  458. # [23:50] <gsnedders> BenMillard: and dropped email
  459. # [23:50] <BenMillard> I only have 1 bonafide PS controller
  460. # [23:50] <BenMillard> and no LAN cable
  461. # [23:50] <gsnedders> BenMillard: So should I bring another?
  462. # [23:50] <gsnedders> BenMillard: LAN cable is no issue, we will only have 1 PS2
  463. # [23:50] <BenMillard> ah, ok
  464. # [23:50] * Joins: jcranmer (n=jcranmer@ltsp1.csl.tjhsst.edu)
  465. # [23:50] <BenMillard> gsnedders, yes, do please bring 1 controller
  466. # [23:51] <gsnedders> BenMillard: OK. Maybe I'll bring a game or two too :)
  467. # [23:51] <BenMillard> gsnedders, sure...and your memory card if it's got anything useful on it
  468. # [23:51] <gsnedders> BenMillard: It might, might not
  469. # [23:51] <gsnedders> BenMillard: Maybe I'll bring GT3…
  470. # [23:51] <BenMillard> gsnedders, I can bring that
  471. # [23:51] <gsnedders> BenMillard: So can I. I'm in the middle of a race on it atm :P
  472. # [23:52] <BenMillard> the way GT3 models oversteer and drifting is my favourite of any game
  473. # [23:52] * Quits: Maurice` (i=copyman@cc90688-a.emmen1.dr.home.nl) ("Disconnected...")
  474. # [23:52] <gsnedders> I started GT3 from scratch on Monday to practice with slower cars :P
  475. # [23:53] <BenMillard> Hixie, you don't need to bring anything PS2-related unless it's an extra game (like GTA: foo?)
  476. # [23:56] <BenMillard> gsnedders, easier if I bring both GT games, since my discs are probably in better condition than yours
  477. # [23:56] <gsnedders> BenMillard: My GT3 works fine, that's why I'm playing that and not GT4 now :)
  478. # [23:56] <BenMillard> ok, if you really want to bring your copy then we'll use that
  479. # [23:57] <gsnedders> I have plenty to bring already :)
  480. # [23:57] <gsnedders> And I have to lug it around for a week first
  481. # [23:57] <BenMillard> GRR! so are you bringing it or am I? make your mind up!
  482. # [23:57] <gsnedders> You are
  483. # [23:57] <BenMillard> ok
  484. # [23:57] <gsnedders> That's the implication of that comment :P
  485. # [23:58] <gsnedders> Ooo… I could bring NFS:HP2 (the best NFS game IMO), F1:05, and Tokyo Xtreme Racer
  486. # [23:58] <BenMillard> I remmber the first Hot Pursuit on PC, was great in 2P
  487. # [23:58] <BenMillard> F1 games can be hilariously unrealistic, so that might be intertaining
  488. # [23:58] <gsnedders> Oh, the AI is lovely. You can easily lap them several times on hard.
  489. # [23:59] <gsnedders> (NFS as always has a rubber-band AI, so you never really thrash it)
  490. # [23:59] <gsnedders> (unless you turn the rubber-band off, and do an eight lap race)
  491. # [23:59] * Quits: jtcranmer (n=jcranmer@r77h127.res.gatech.edu) ("Remote server up again")
  492. # Session Close: Sat Oct 11 00:00:00 2008

The end :)