/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2009-08-08 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Aug 08 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  8. # [00:21] <othermaciej> Dashiva: well, other than Larry...
  9. # [00:26] <annevk42> that guy is a troll
  10. # [00:26] <annevk42> wtf was up with that email?
  11. # [00:27] <othermaciej> I'm trying to resist the urge to feed the troll
  12. # [00:28] <annevk42> another data point for http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20090731#l-170 :)
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  19. # [00:42] <Hixie> heycam: yt?
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  21. # [00:44] <Hixie> heycam: web idl -- can you make 4.5.6. Host object [[Call]] method support overloaded "caller"s?
  22. # [00:44] <Hixie> heycam: specifically, for HTMLCollection i'd like to just put "caller" on both item() and namedItem() and just have the overloading functionality pick the right one based on whether the argument is a number or a string
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  24. # [01:09] <Hixie> heycam: also, "caller" needs to be specifiable with the other specials
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  39. # [02:14] <Samer> word
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  45. # [02:26] <heycam> Hixie, will do
  46. # [02:26] <heycam> i'll make it use the same overload resolution as regular operations
  47. # [02:26] <Hixie> sweet
  48. # [02:27] <Hixie> i'm sending something about [Supplemental] also
  49. # [02:27] <heycam> ok, still haven't thought more about that
  50. # [02:27] <Hixie> html5 is now up to date as far as i can tell
  51. # [02:27] <heycam> ah ok cool
  52. # [02:27] <Hixie> i'm sure i made lots of mistakes :-)
  53. # [02:27] <heycam> it'd be good to extend dom's webidl checker to look for non-syntactic mistakes too
  54. # [02:29] * heycam heads out to get some breakfast
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  57. # [02:40] <Hixie> heycam: do you have an opinion on the issue about security for prototypes visible cross-origin?
  58. # [02:40] <Hixie> heycam: e.g. window.location's prototype is visible cross-origin, which might be a problem
  59. # [02:41] <Hixie> specifically regarding http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JulSep/0269.html
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  62. # [03:03] <othermaciej> Hixie: I saw your email, I was planning to ask abarth for advice
  63. # [03:04] <Hixie> k
  64. # [03:04] <Hixie> let me know if i need to change anything
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  67. # [03:07] <othermaciej> Hixie: abarth had a suggestion for how this should work on #webkit, which I agree is sound
  68. # [03:07] <othermaciej> (maybe he wants to suggest it himself though)
  69. # [03:07] <abarth> i can write it up in an email if you like
  70. # [03:07] <Hixie> yeah if it could be in e-mail form that would be fantastic
  71. # [03:08] <abarth> ok, i should get cracking on my emails then
  72. # [03:08] <othermaciej> short version is, expose the real value same-origin, make a new object per-window with the accessing window's appropriate prototype chain cross-origin
  73. # [03:08] <othermaciej> (doing this for location itself would probably handle its cross-origin-accessible function properties too, though the cross-origin version would need to expose only a limited set of properties)
  74. # [03:09] <othermaciej> abarth: it might almost need to be a different interface when exposed cross-origin, now that I think about it
  75. # [03:09] <abarth> there are subtlies, like what happens if the same-origin guy changes the replace function
  76. # [03:10] <abarth> the cross-origin viewers want to see a prisine version
  77. # [03:10] <othermaciej> right, you can't expose that cross-origin
  78. # [03:10] <Hixie> currently the spec disallows doing that (changing replace())
  79. # [03:10] <othermaciej> but making a fresh JS wrapper with a fresh prototype will cover that
  80. # [03:10] <abarth> in some sense, it could just be an entirely different object
  81. # [03:10] <Hixie> but having a new object would neatly fix that, yes
  82. # [03:10] <abarth> at the c++ layer
  83. # [03:10] <Hixie> how about Window?
  84. # [03:11] <abarth> window has a reference monitor
  85. # [03:11] <Hixie> wait, this won't work
  86. # [03:11] <abarth> so it doesn't really matter
  87. # [03:11] <Hixie> if two windows grab each others' Location objects
  88. # [03:11] <abarth> you can't see the properties added to he prototyp
  89. # [03:11] <Hixie> and then set document.domain so that they can talk
  90. # [03:11] <Hixie> their objects need to complare ===
  91. # [03:11] <Hixie> compare, even
  92. # [03:11] <Hixie> "reference monitor"?
  93. # [03:11] <abarth> i don't think that is very important
  94. # [03:11] <abarth> if they aren't ===
  95. # [03:12] <othermaciej> window is an even more special case than widow's cross-origin-accessible properties
  96. # [03:12] <othermaciej> I agree with abarth, I doubt the === condition is relevant to web compat
  97. # [03:12] <Hixie> for .window I'm sure it is important that they be ===, so it has to be the same WindowProxy object
  98. # [03:12] <Hixie> and i don't really see how to do that safely
  99. # [03:12] <othermaciej> for window, yes
  100. # [03:12] <Hixie> anyway send mail
  101. # [03:12] <Hixie> i'll do whatever you say :-)
  102. # [03:12] <Hixie> assuming it works
  103. # [03:12] <othermaciej> the window object needs more complex behavior than Web IDL can really express
  104. # [03:13] <Hixie> oh we're well past Web IDL for indow
  105. # [03:13] <abarth> window.window and window.frames are just self loops
  106. # [03:13] <Hixie> Window
  107. # [03:13] <abarth> they don't need anything fancy done to them
  108. # [03:13] <Hixie> abarth: i meant for that object, not for the accessor
  109. # [03:14] <othermaciej> WebKit has a handful of Window properties and attributes marked as DoNotCheckDomainSecurity
  110. # [03:14] <othermaciej> though maybe that would better be termed AllowCrossOriginAccess or something
  111. # [03:14] <othermaciej> the question isn't really about window but about what happens when you access those properties or methods of Window cross-origin
  112. # [03:15] <Hixie> the question seems to me to be the same for Window as for Location
  113. # [03:15] * heycam is happy to leave security discussions to others
  114. # [03:15] <othermaciej> window has no prototype chain, and has an object identity requirement for wrappers
  115. # [03:16] <abarth> window does have a prototype chain
  116. # [03:16] <othermaciej> so it's not quite the same
  117. # [03:16] <Hixie> no prototype chain?
  118. # [03:16] <abarth> if you add stuff to Object.prototype, they show up a properties of window
  119. # [03:16] <othermaciej> ok, right, it doesn't expose any properties that are on the prototype chain
  120. # [03:16] <othermaciej> the function properties are on Window itself and the prototype is not directly exposed cross-origin
  121. # [03:17] <Hixie> i should specify that somewhere!
  122. # [03:17] <Hixie> please send an e-mail about that :-)
  123. # [03:17] <Hixie> god only knows how i'm gonna make that work with webidl
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  125. # [03:17] <abarth> i bet you can make it work by using different objects
  126. # [03:17] <abarth> when viewing cross origin
  127. # [03:17] <othermaciej> Window?
  128. # [03:18] <abarth> i'm thinking about focus() right now
  129. # [03:18] <othermaciej> you'd have to hack === comparison probably, and switch object types when transferring it cross-origin
  130. # [03:18] <abarth> because it's the simplest case
  131. # [03:18] <othermaciej> (like you can vend window cross-origin and hand it back to something same-origin with the window itself and all methods still work)
  132. # [03:19] <abarth> window is super special
  133. # [03:19] <othermaciej> I think this would be more complicated than the way it works now
  134. # [03:19] <othermaciej> it is
  135. # [03:19] <abarth> can we think about the focus function for a minute?
  136. # [03:19] <othermaciej> sure
  137. # [03:19] <othermaciej> I think same-origin accessors should see the real focus function
  138. # [03:19] <abarth> yes
  139. # [03:20] <othermaciej> cross-origin accessors should see a fresh value made with the accessor's version of the Function prototype chain
  140. # [03:20] <othermaciej> I think this might even be what WebKit already does
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  142. # [03:20] <abarth> ok
  143. # [03:20] <abarth> and the object doesn't have a reference monitor
  144. # [03:20] <abarth> it's just a plain JS object
  145. # [03:20] <othermaciej> I'm not sure what you mean by reference monitor
  146. # [03:20] <abarth> in webkit terms
  147. # [03:21] <abarth> someone overrides getProperty or whatever
  148. # [03:21] <abarth> and calls SecurityOrigin::canAccess
  149. # [03:21] <abarth> to make some decisions
  150. # [03:22] <othermaciej> I think once you have the actual function object for window.focus, there are no more security checks involved when calling it or accessing its properties or prototype properties
  151. # [03:22] <abarth> window calls canAccess a lot
  152. # [03:22] <abarth> right
  153. # [03:22] <abarth> ok, that all makes sense to me
  154. # [03:22] <abarth> now, window.location
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  156. # [03:22] <abarth> currently, in webkit, window.location is implemented like window in the sense that
  157. # [03:23] <abarth> getProperty calls canAccess
  158. # [03:23] <abarth> another way to think about what's going on
  159. # [03:23] <abarth> is that there's a different object that cross-origin viewers see
  160. # [03:23] <othermaciej> (I should also mention if you access window.focus cross-origin, you always get the original version, even if in the real window object it has been replaced)
  161. # [03:23] <abarth> that simply lacks the properties that canAccess woudl return false for
  162. # [03:24] <abarth> this account of window.location has two virtues:
  163. # [03:24] <abarth> 1) it explains why you get the origin methods if they've been changed
  164. # [03:24] <Hixie> 2) it's faster
  165. # [03:24] <abarth> 2) the location object becomes less magical and more like a normal JS object
  166. # [03:24] <othermaciej> I think actually implementing it that way could be easier to implement and might be reasonably secure
  167. # [03:25] <othermaciej> but then at the time you access window.location, you get a different kind of object depending on whether you are doing same-origin or cross-origin access
  168. # [03:25] <abarth> right
  169. # [03:25] <Hixie> in that case all the magic ends up on Window, which is fine by me, and I have to spec two Location objects, which I can live with
  170. # [03:25] <othermaciej> I believe Location will actually throw when trying to access properties cross-origin that you are not allowed to
  171. # [03:25] <Hixie> someone's gonna have to describe what all the magic on Window is, though
  172. # [03:26] <Hixie> othermaciej: correct
  173. # [03:26] <othermaciej> I would expect this is incidental rather than required
  174. # [03:26] <Hixie> othermaciej: i would just define it as two implementations of the same Location interface, fwiw
  175. # [03:27] <abarth> the location property of window is then something like a factory
  176. # [03:27] <abarth> in that it produces lots of objects
  177. # [03:27] <othermaciej> Hixie: the cross-origin version would have to throw even when getting or setting unknown properties, to totally match current behavior
  178. # [03:27] <Hixie> othermaciej: yes
  179. # [03:28] <othermaciej> but in principle, yes, there could be one interface that's general enough that either implementation would fulfill it
  180. # [03:28] <othermaciej> the alternative to multiple objects would be a single object that simply has different property access behavior depending on who's asking, like Window does
  181. # [03:29] <othermaciej> I wonder if it's possible to spec it to allow either implementation strategy, and if such a spec would enforce enough of the needed security constraints
  182. # [03:29] <abarth> if it throws for novel properties, you're probably ok
  183. # [03:30] <abarth> the main difference in observable behavior would be ===
  184. # [03:30] <othermaciej> the other difference would be if you transfer it cross-origin and somehow manage to transfer it back
  185. # [03:31] <abarth> there's also the issue of uber powerful viewers
  186. # [03:31] <abarth> like file URLs in webkit
  187. # [03:31] <abarth> who can see past your canAccess blocks
  188. # [03:32] <abarth> but they're completely insecure, so i'm not sure what we can do for them
  189. # [03:32] <othermaciej> that is true, though our file: URL handling is not needed for interoperability and in fact should probably be changed, at least by default when used in browsers
  190. # [03:32] <abarth> i'm pretty sure i added a setting for that :)
  191. # [03:32] <othermaciej> the current WebKit model amounts to treating file: as same-origin to everything whenever anyone asks, so in either model it would get the real Location object
  192. # [03:33] <abarth> right
  193. # [03:33] <abarth> but he could see what another page got if they grabbed the location object of a third page
  194. # [03:33] <abarth> or of the file page
  195. # [03:33] <othermaciej> that is true
  196. # [03:34] <othermaciej> it's an observable difference in behavior depending on the spec model, even if it's very unlikely to matter in practice
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  212. # [04:33] * Hixie upgrades http://www.whatwg.org/issues/data.html a little
  213. # [04:34] * othermaciej wonders what the corresponding graph would look like for the HTML WG issue tracker
  214. # [04:35] <Hixie> i include the bugzilla count now, but you can't see it cos i've only got one number so far
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  252. # [09:01] <Lachy> Hixie, is the buzilla count that small purple dot at the bottom right corner?
  253. # [09:04] <Lachy> Hixie, would be useful if you replaced that long description following the table with a simple key that illustrates each type of line and assigns a label
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  255. # [09:06] <Hixie> Lachy: navy, not purple, but yes
  256. # [09:06] <Hixie> and yeah, i should probably add a key
  257. # [09:12] <annevk42> DOMSettableTokenList no longer stringifies due to the Web IDL change
  258. # [09:22] <Hixie> oh?
  259. # [09:22] <annevk42> you removed Stringifies but did not add stringifier before value
  260. # [09:22] <annevk42> afaics
  261. # [09:22] <Hixie> it's inherited
  262. # [09:22] <annevk42> aah
  263. # [09:24] <annevk42> abarth++ -- http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-abarth-cookie
  264. # [09:27] <annevk42> abarth, having said that, shouldn't you aim to obsolete all existing cookie specs and also define cookie2 and set-cookie2 in the same document?
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  266. # [09:40] <Hixie> can't we just drop cookie2?
  267. # [09:40] <Hixie> who uses it?
  268. # [09:42] <annevk42> that's cool too
  269. # [09:44] <Hixie> annevk42: i added legends http://www.whatwg.org/issues/data.html
  270. # [09:49] <annevk42> not sure I was the one who asked, or are you telling me because it does not work in Opera?!!!11!
  271. # [09:49] <Hixie> oh, sorry, it was lachy
  272. # [09:50] <annevk42> ;)
  273. # [09:50] <Hixie> lachy: i added legends http://www.whatwg.org/issues/data.html
  274. # [09:50] <annevk42> nice trend
  275. # [09:50] <Hixie> october baby
  276. # [09:59] <annevk42> cool, feedback from Microsoft
  277. # [09:59] <Hixie> is it good feedback? i haven't had a chance to read it yet
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  279. # [10:08] <Philip`> http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/08/07/2013243 "Several sources are reporting that while native audio/video support has been dropped from the HTML 5 spec ..."
  280. # [10:11] <annevk42> Hixie, it seems valid to me
  281. # [10:11] <Hixie> cool
  282. # [10:17] <annevk42> geopriv wtf
  283. # [10:17] <othermaciej> it looks like they are not big fans of a lot of the new elements
  284. # [10:19] <Hixie> gsnedders: yt?
  285. # [10:22] <annevk42> othermaciej, it seems they're mostly critical of those where the benefit/use case is not clear
  286. # [10:23] <othermaciej> I suppose they probably just skipped mentioning the ones they do like
  287. # [10:24] <annevk42> http://www.w3.org/mid/8B62A039C620904E92F1233570534C9B0118D8250546@nambx04.corp.adobe.com -- are we supposed to take this serious?
  288. # [10:25] <annevk42> othermaciej, like <video>? o_O
  289. # [10:25] <othermaciej> annevk42: I am guessing their review is not nearly done yet
  290. # [10:25] <othermaciej> the sectioning elements seem to have low potential benefit but are also trivial in terms of implementation effort
  291. # [10:25] <othermaciej> it seems like the main likely effect is to make blog markup look a little prettier, with less <div> soup
  292. # [10:26] <othermaciej> I guess they are only really good if one is against <div> soup
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  294. # [10:26] <annevk42> yeah, though most blogs need something like <main> or <content> which is lacking
  295. # [10:26] <othermaciej> <time> solves a very specific problem with microformats
  296. # [10:26] <othermaciej> annevk42: good point - I guess arguably everything not in <header>, <footer>, <nav> or <aside> is the main content
  297. # [10:27] <annevk42> (and there is a plan to specify access details for the sectioning elements I believe once other things are in order; mapping to AT and such)
  298. # [10:27] <othermaciej> progress/meter seem useful but they need both default native look and defined custom css styling for sites to use them IMO
  299. # [10:27] <othermaciej> keygen I am not surprised they hate
  300. # [10:27] <annevk42> I wholeheartedly agree with MS that we need a styling story for menu/progress/meter
  301. # [10:27] <othermaciej> because they are the one browser that has no real reason to do it
  302. # [10:28] <annevk42> hyatt completely dislikes the current menu design too, fwiw
  303. # [10:28] <othermaciej> we have ended up making pretty much every single form control stylable in webkit because authors demand it
  304. # [10:28] <othermaciej> hyatt also doesn't like the current <datagrid> design
  305. # [10:28] <annevk42> it's commented out now ;)
  306. # [10:28] <othermaciej> we should probably cut it IMO
  307. # [10:29] <othermaciej> it's an important feature but it's too late to completely redesign it
  308. # [10:29] <annevk42> Hixie cut it
  309. # [10:29] <annevk42> I really like the form control styling thing in WebKit btw
  310. # [10:29] <othermaciej> I think Firefox and IE have various degrees of form control stylability
  311. # [10:29] <annevk42> I'd be great if you could get css3-ui to be more clear on the details one day and introduce all the new pseudo-elements
  312. # [10:30] <othermaciej> but I like the way some of the details of ours work
  313. # [10:30] <othermaciej> pseudo-elements seem like a good approach for styling compound controls that are more than one box
  314. # [10:30] <othermaciej> a lot of div soup is simply because form controls have not been reliably and interoperably stylable
  315. # [10:31] <othermaciej> it's dumb to need to pile up DIVs and JavaScript just to get a custom looking checkbox
  316. # [10:31] <othermaciej> and then to have to add ARIA so it can be accessible
  317. # [10:31] <annevk42> on top of that you need to learn about ARIA and not make mistakes
  318. # [10:31] <annevk42> right
  319. # [10:31] <othermaciej> basically reimplementing all the functionality of a checkbox just to change the look
  320. # [10:31] <annevk42> I've been telling this to the PFWG since 2006
  321. # [10:32] <othermaciej> interoperable form control styling seems to be an important thing to specify and I guess no one is really actively pursuing it
  322. # [10:32] <annevk42> well, not all the time, but I said it quite firmly back then in some meeting and after that a few more times until it became clear that ARIA was going to happen anyway because it landed in Firefox, etc.
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  324. # [10:33] <othermaciej> I think even if that was done, it wouldn't completely remove the need for ARIA
  325. # [10:33] <othermaciej> because of the transition period
  326. # [10:33] <othermaciej> authors would probably be more prepared to accept broken accessibility in some/older browsers than broken appearance in older browsers
  327. # [10:34] <othermaciej> so it's probably easier to get people to use ARIA before it's 100% deployed in every browser
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  329. # [10:34] <annevk42> yeah, fair enough
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  331. # [10:34] <annevk42> that's been their argument too fwiw
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  333. # [10:35] <othermaciej> it's surprisingly pragmatic, you'd think they wouldn't be ok with doing stuff that breaks accessibility at all
  334. # [10:35] <othermaciej> but also I guess they have more competency in designing accessibility features than styling features
  335. # [10:37] <annevk42> on the one it was very pragmatic, on the other hand they're still working with some XHTML2 design at the time :)
  336. # [10:37] <annevk42> on the one hand*
  337. # [10:38] <othermaciej> annevk42: when I saw the message you linked, I was not sure if it was intended seriously or sarcastically, but I decided not to ask
  338. # [10:44] <annevk42> Hixie, Gregg from Google is suggesting that XMLHttpRequest should take filedata URLs. I have a hard time deciding whether that is a good idea given how much functionality of XMLHttpRequest would not be used at all...
  339. # [10:48] <Hixie> what's his use case?
  340. # [10:50] <annevk42> your system supports RTF documents; user selects RTF document one way or another; you get a URL out of that; with XHR you can have a single code path for loading the data
  341. # [10:51] * Quits: jorlow (n=jorlow@72.14.224.1) (Connection timed out)
  342. # [10:52] <Lachy> Hixie, I don't see any legend on the graph, and now neither the thin teal line, green line or navy dot appear.
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  344. # [10:53] <Hixie> Lachy: whatever browser you are using doesn't support fillText() -- upgrade to a newer browser
  345. # [10:53] <Lachy> Error: context.measureText is not a function, Source File: http://www.whatwg.org/issues/data.html
  346. # [10:54] <Hixie> Lachy: whatever browser you are using doesn't support measureText() -- upgrade to a newer browser
  347. # [10:54] <Lachy> that's in Firefox 3.5
  348. # [10:54] <Lachy> it worked before without any problems
  349. # [10:54] <Lachy> oh, no, this machine still has 3.0 :-(
  350. # [10:54] <Lachy> I will upgrade.
  351. # [10:55] <Hixie> annevk42: seems like that use case would be handled by the File APIs and moving the layer of abstraction down one level, which doesn't seem unduly problematic
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  353. # [10:56] <Hixie> ok i gotta sleep
  354. # [10:56] <Hixie> nn
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  357. # [11:09] <annevk42> got to love this: http://windowsteamblog.com/blogs/developers/archive/2009/08/05/version-checking-just-don-t-do-it.aspx
  358. # [11:13] <Lachy> heh
  359. # [11:13] <Lachy> seems conceptually relevant to the versioning issue in the HTMLWG
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  404. # [15:52] <annevk42> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/54567
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  417. # [18:02] <abarth> annevk42: if you're interested in the cookie stuff, you should join the mailing list and comment on the charter
  418. # [18:02] <abarth> annevk42: in general, i'm trying to keep the focus narrow
  419. # [18:03] <abarth> annevk42: speccing cookie2 is going to take a lot more work and a lot more time than speccing cookie0
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  422. # [18:18] <annevk2> abarth, if you're going to spec cookies as implemented set-cookie2 is relevant, no?
  423. # [18:18] <abarth> annevk2: depends how widely its used
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  425. # [18:18] <abarth> there was a recent message to the list
  426. # [18:19] <abarth> that suggested very few sites use it
  427. # [18:19] <abarth> i'm not sure we want to lock down the behavior of cookie2
  428. # [18:19] <annevk2> hmm, if we could actually get impl to remove support for it that'd be cool
  429. # [18:19] <abarth> which user agents implement it?
  430. # [18:20] <annevk2> I thougt set-cookie2, not cookie2, was implemented, but maybe not
  431. # [18:20] <abarth> i know they're in opera
  432. # [18:20] <abarth> but i'm not sure where else
  433. # [18:20] <annevk2> interesting
  434. # [18:22] <annevk2> if we're the only ones by all means don't spec it or simply say it's obsolete
  435. # [18:23] <annevk2> if we need extensions we can prolly extend cookie0 somehow once the processing model is written down
  436. # [18:23] <abarth> i don't think we want to say it's obsolete. cookie suck in a number of ways. it would be good to have a long term plan for how to dig ourselves out of the mess
  437. # [18:23] <abarth> yeah, that's a good point
  438. # [18:23] <abarth> that's what 2109 originally tried to do with Version=1
  439. # [18:24] <abarth> but i think they put the cart a bit in front of the horse
  440. # [18:24] <annevk2> besides rough consensus you need running code :p
  441. # [18:24] <annevk2> (also, versioning sucks :))
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  445. # [18:48] <Lachy> Wow! I guess Microsoft finally providing feedback about HTML5 was bigger news than I thought. http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/08/08/1231231/Microsoft-Finally-Joins-HTML-5-Standard-Efforts?from=rss
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  451. # [19:25] <gsnedders> Lachy: I know! Microsoft doing what they said they would! It's unbelievable!
  452. # [19:27] <annevk2> I see that /. is still up to their high standards
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  454. # [19:37] <Philip`> Hmm, are people wondering how much set-cookie2 is used?
  455. # [19:37] * Philip` sees it in the headers of loads of pages, particularly JSP ones
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  461. # [20:59] * Joins: Samer (n=sziadeh@CPE0024369ef3ab-CM001ac35cd4b4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  462. # [21:01] * Joins: shepazu (n=schepers@wr-cha-core1-wire1-cust99-132.airnetgroup.net)
  463. # [21:01] * Quits: jorlow (n=jorlow@c-67-180-199-19.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  464. # [21:12] * Joins: jorlow (n=jorlow@c-67-180-199-19.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  465. # [21:15] * Quits: jorlow_ (n=jorlow@72.14.224.1) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  466. # [21:16] * Joins: jorlow_ (n=jorlow@72.14.224.1)
  467. # [21:21] * Joins: jorlow__ (n=jorlow@c-67-180-199-19.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  468. # [21:22] * Quits: jorlow (n=jorlow@c-67-180-199-19.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  469. # [21:23] * Quits: dolske (n=dolske@c-76-103-40-203.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  470. # [21:25] * Quits: jorlow_ (n=jorlow@72.14.224.1) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  471. # [21:29] * Quits: gunderwonder (n=gunderwo@250.84-49-121.nextgentel.com)
  472. # [21:30] * Joins: Chris_Wilson (n=cwilso@nat/microsoft/x-63182d197e226a68)
  473. # [21:37] * Quits: abarth (n=abarth@c-98-210-108-185.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  474. # [21:39] * Quits: ChrisWilson (n=cwilso@nat/microsoft/x-zzeqhpfifeacblof) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  475. # [21:49] * Joins: gunderwonder (n=gunderwo@250.84-49-121.nextgentel.com)
  476. # [21:53] * Joins: jorlow (n=jorlow@72.14.224.1)
  477. # [21:55] * Joins: mat_t (n=mattomas@80-225-52-194.dynamic.dial.as9105.com)
  478. # [22:05] * Quits: jorlow (n=jorlow@72.14.224.1)
  479. # [22:06] * Joins: zcorpan_ (n=zcorpan@c83-252-201-53.bredband.comhem.se)
  480. # [22:07] <annevk2> twitter still under attack?
  481. # [22:07] <zcorpan_> so now is the time to try to delay last call
  482. # [22:07] <annevk2> neh, that'd be around the end of September
  483. # [22:08] <zcorpan_> although i agree with the contenteditable feedback
  484. # [22:09] * Quits: jorlow__ (n=jorlow@c-67-180-199-19.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  485. # [22:09] <zcorpan_> ah, so they're being generous and being one month early instead of two years as they first promised
  486. # [22:11] <annevk2> I'm happy they're sending something
  487. # [22:11] <zcorpan_> me too
  488. # [22:12] <zcorpan_> i hope they continue to send feedback
  489. # [22:13] * zcorpan_ will be offline next week btw
  490. # [22:14] <annevk2> I particularly like that the feedback is constructive
  491. # [22:14] <annevk2> short vacation?
  492. # [22:14] <zcorpan_> yes
  493. # [22:15] <annevk2> nice
  494. # [22:15] * annevk2 will be working from somewhere in France next week
  495. # [22:20] * Quits: mlpug (n=mlpug@a91-156-62-135.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Remote closed the connection)
  496. # [22:20] * Quits: zcorpan_ (n=zcorpan@c83-252-201-53.bredband.comhem.se)
  497. # [22:22] * Joins: seyDoggy (n=macagp@CPE0016cbc4baf9-CM001225d75790.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  498. # [22:23] * Joins: olliej_ (n=oliver@c-67-164-125-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  499. # [22:30] * Quits: seyDoggy (n=macagp@CPE0016cbc4baf9-CM001225d75790.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  500. # [22:36] * Joins: maikmerten_ (n=maikmert@Zb6d6.z.pppool.de)
  501. # [22:36] * gsnedders laughs
  502. # [22:36] <gsnedders> Of course, being in the same room as zcorpan, this was the first I heard of this vacation :P
  503. # [22:36] <gsnedders> (same room at work, that is)
  504. # [22:51] * Quits: maikmerten (n=maikmert@Zaaf1.z.pppool.de) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  505. # [23:01] * Quits: gunderwonder (n=gunderwo@250.84-49-121.nextgentel.com)
  506. # [23:03] * Joins: zcorpan_ (n=zcorpan@c83-252-201-53.bredband.comhem.se)
  507. # [23:04] * Quits: ROBOd (n=robod@89.122.216.38) ("http://www.robodesign.ro")
  508. # [23:04] * Quits: gsnedders (n=gsnedder@c83-252-204-86.bredband.comhem.se)
  509. # [23:09] * Quits: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@c-98-248-43-68.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote closed the connection)
  510. # [23:11] * Quits: tndH (n=Rob@host86-142-186-30.range86-142.btcentralplus.com) ("ChatZilla 0.9.85-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.1/2008072406]")
  511. # [23:11] * Quits: zcorpan_ (n=zcorpan@c83-252-201-53.bredband.comhem.se) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  512. # [23:20] * Quits: maikmerten_ (n=maikmert@Zb6d6.z.pppool.de) (Remote closed the connection)
  513. # [23:22] * Quits: mat_t (n=mattomas@80-225-52-194.dynamic.dial.as9105.com) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  514. # [23:23] * Joins: mat_t (n=mattomas@80-225-52-194.dynamic.dial.as9105.com)
  515. # [23:33] * Samer is now known as SamerZ
  516. # [23:33] * Joins: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@216.239.45.19)
  517. # [23:40] * Quits: dbaron (n=dbaron@c-98-234-51-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) ("8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.")
  518. # [23:43] * Joins: dolske (n=dolske@nat/mozilla/x-68547ba5bf8fc2dc)
  519. # [23:50] * Quits: SamerZ (n=sziadeh@CPE0024369ef3ab-CM001ac35cd4b4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  520. # [23:57] * Quits: shepazu (n=schepers@wr-cha-core1-wire1-cust99-132.airnetgroup.net)
  521. # Session Close: Sun Aug 09 00:00:00 2009

The end :)