/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2009-08-18 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Aug 18 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  10. # [00:30] <JonathanNeal> TabAtkins, good question.
  11. # [00:31] <JonathanNeal> I was curious to know how the constant possible usage of h1 tags might muck things up :-)
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  13. # [00:36] <JonathanNeal> I figured that we just have to try it, anything else would be google giving away search info.
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  20. # [00:48] <annevk2> Hixie, you should replace lines such as "Objects implementing the ApplicationCache interface must also implement the EventTarget interface." with "ApplicationCache implements EventTarget;" in the IDL
  21. # [00:49] <Hixie> can you file a bug?
  22. # [00:49] <Hixie> just paste the above into the text box
  23. # [00:49] <Hixie> on the spec
  24. # [00:49] <Hixie> and hit the button
  25. # [00:49] <Hixie> :-)
  26. # [00:49] <Hixie> after clicking the relevant section
  27. # [00:50] <annevk2> done
  28. # [00:50] <annevk2> it still annoys me the text is not cleared btw
  29. # [00:50] <Hixie> thanks
  30. # [00:50] <Hixie> if the text cleared, it would have made my life hell when i filed the 60 or so identical bugs recently
  31. # [00:50] <Hixie> let me know once you've filed more than 60 different bugs in a row :-)
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  33. # [00:51] <annevk2> hmm
  34. # [00:52] <vvv> Hixie: is <input type=url> supposed to be an absolute IRI (as 4.10.4 says) or an absolute URL (as it's said everywhere else)?
  35. # [00:52] <Hixie> what's the difference?
  36. # [00:53] <vvv> So there's no difference?
  37. # [00:53] <annevk2> "add examples here" haha
  38. # [00:53] <Hixie> vvv: there is a minor difference, but since you're asking which it is, i was wondering what you thought the difference was :-)
  39. # [00:54] <vvv> Hixie: no, I just noticed the inconsistence
  40. # [00:54] <Hixie> vvv: (the minor difference is related to what is allowed in the query component of the string in documents whose character encoding is not UTF-8)
  41. # [00:54] <Hixie> vvv: the one that says "IRI" is non-normative, so it's trying to explain what's expected
  42. # [00:55] <annevk2> is that really a difference? for an absolute URL I would assume that would be normalized to percent-encoded stuff which makes it a valid IRI
  43. # [00:55] <Hixie> vvv: the one that says "valid absolute URL" is normative, and it has to handle the weird edge cases
  44. # [00:55] <Hixie> annevk2: URL in HTML5 currently is a superset of IRI
  45. # [00:55] <Hixie> annevk2: i'm waiting for the IRI spec to fix the definition of IRI so i can just use "IRI"
  46. # [00:55] <annevk2> Hixie, but input type=url is about submission
  47. # [00:55] <annevk2> hmm
  48. # [00:56] <Hixie> yes?
  49. # [00:56] <annevk2> so a) what is submitted can always be a valid IRI and b) we could even make it always UTF-8
  50. # [00:56] <annevk2> b) would make a lot of sense for an IRI value to be honest
  51. # [00:57] <annevk2> though supposedly it might get mangled by the form encoding hmm
  52. # [00:57] <annevk2> rather than the document encoding
  53. # [00:57] <annevk2> maybe URI would be simpler :)
  54. # [00:58] <Hixie> no doubt it would be simpler
  55. # [00:58] <Hixie> it's a "valid absolute URL" because that's what it has to be for the value="" attribute
  56. # [00:59] <Hixie> and i don't want to end up in the very confusing situation of what is allowed in value="" and what is allowed in .value being different
  57. # [01:00] <annevk2> but you could force the encoding flag
  58. # [01:00] <Hixie> how do you mena?
  59. # [01:00] <annevk2> that value is always parsed with HREF-charset set to UTF-8
  60. # [01:00] <annevk2> though if accept-charset is not some Unicode thingie it might get lost anyway
  61. # [01:01] <Hixie> the value is parsed by the html parser, unless i'm very confused
  62. # [01:01] <Hixie> i really don't understand what you're proposing
  63. # [01:02] <annevk2> if you set href dynamically it isn't, but I suppose it doesn't really matter
  64. # [01:02] <annevk2> people should just use UTF-8
  65. # [01:02] <Hixie> what is href in this context?
  66. # [01:03] <annevk2> s/href/the value attribute/
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  68. # [01:04] <Hixie> k... i guess if you think something should change, file a bug :-)
  69. # [01:04] <Hixie> and explain why it should change
  70. # [01:04] <Hixie> :-)
  71. # [01:05] <annevk2> i thought there was an issue for a while if you have accept-charset set to iso-8859-1 or something, but then realized that it wouldn't be a new problem
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  73. # [01:05] <Hixie> k
  74. # [01:06] <annevk2> but clearly, I should get some sleep :)
  75. # [01:06] <annevk2> nn
  76. # [01:06] <Hixie> nn
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  83. # [01:25] <JonathanNeal> Do some of you folks work on the whatwg project?
  84. # [01:25] <Hixie> this _is_ the whatwg project
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  87. # [01:28] <JonathanNeal> Nice.
  88. # [01:31] <JonathanNeal> Now we're moving to the second portion of the HTML5 adoption, which is applying it to our latest out-of-the-box theme. I have an example @ http://madison.thewikies.com/html5/liferay/
  89. # [01:32] <JonathanNeal> I'm still working on getting the code for our div based columns. So I know I'm losing everything inside the tables.
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  101. # [02:02] <Hixie> o_O
  102. # [02:02] <Hixie> now leif is suggesting ARIA should be used by non-ATs
  103. # [02:02] <Hixie> going directly contrary to the point of ARIA...
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  109. # [02:13] <Hixie> well this is dumb
  110. # [02:13] <Hixie> the way i designed the database API, you can't know whether you need to create the tables or not
  111. # [02:14] <Hixie> <-- dumb
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  118. # [02:57] <jlebar> Hixie, does [6.11.9 History Traversal] occur on all page loads, even if I type straight into the URL bar?
  119. # [02:57] <Hixie> yes
  120. # [02:57] <Hixie> it is invoked as part of the navigation algorithm
  121. # [02:57] <jlebar> So is popstate fired on all loads?
  122. # [02:57] <Hixie> no
  123. # [02:57] <Hixie> only if there is state to pop
  124. # [02:58] <jlebar> Only if the state to pop is non-null?
  125. # [02:58] <jlebar> I could set the document pending object to null as part of the algorithm.
  126. # [03:01] <Hixie> hold on
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  129. # [03:03] <Hixie> jlebar: ok, here now. looking...
  130. # [03:04] <Hixie> jlebar: popstate only fires when an entry in the session history is activated
  131. # [03:04] <Hixie> jlebar: which only occurs if the specified entry is a state object or the first entry for a Document
  132. # [03:05] <Hixie> jlebar: but yes, it fires at least once per Document load
  133. # [03:05] <Hixie> s/but/so/
  134. # [03:05] <Hixie> my statement earlier was incorrect
  135. # [03:06] <Hixie> jlebar: sorry about that!
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  138. # [03:09] <jlebar> Hixie, sorry, was afk for a sec. I'm not totally clear on this: If we load index.html and then go to index.html#foo, do we get one or two popstates?
  139. # [03:10] <jlebar> Once for the initial document load...
  140. # [03:10] <Hixie> one
  141. # [03:10] <jlebar> I see.
  142. # [03:10] <Hixie> you get one for the page load
  143. # [03:10] <jlebar> And if we go back to index.html, we also don't get a popstate, because index.html doesn't have an associated state object.
  144. # [03:10] <Hixie> right
  145. # [03:11] <Hixie> er
  146. # [03:11] <Hixie> well actually...
  147. # [03:11] * Hixie looks closer
  148. # [03:11] <jlebar> :)
  149. # [03:11] <Hixie> actually yes, you do
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  151. # [03:11] <Hixie> you always get a popstate when traversing to the first entry in the history for a Document
  152. # [03:11] * jlebar is relieved.
  153. # [03:11] <jlebar> Oh...interesting.
  154. # [03:11] <Hixie> not sure that's entirely sane
  155. # [03:11] <Hixie> but it's what it says
  156. # [03:11] <jlebar> Me either.
  157. # [03:12] <jlebar> I've been dispatching popstate whenever we dispatch onload, and also when you go back/forwards to any history entry.
  158. # [03:13] <jlebar> That might be easier for developers to deal with, since it's somewhat consistent.
  159. # [03:13] <Hixie> the original intent was to only dispatch it when hitting an entry that has been pushState()d
  160. # [03:13] <Hixie> i am not sure why we dispatch for the initial page load
  161. # [03:13] <jlebar> I think because you want to know when you go back to it?
  162. # [03:13] <Hixie> i guess, yeah
  163. # [03:14] <Hixie> yeah, that makes sense
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  165. # [03:14] <jlebar> So it treats the first history entry for a document as one which was pushState()ed to.
  166. # [03:14] <Hixie> right
  167. # [03:14] <Hixie> that makes sense i guess
  168. # [03:14] <jlebar> maybe? :)
  169. # [03:14] <Hixie> :-)
  170. # [03:14] <Hixie> so the only entries for which you don't fire a popstate per spec are those that were added due to the hash changing
  171. # [03:14] <Hixie> (they get a hashchange)
  172. # [03:15] <jlebar> I see. That might be a little confusing, because clearstate does clear those.
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  174. # [03:15] <Hixie> yeah, that was a recent change
  175. # [03:16] <Hixie> iirc
  176. # [03:16] <Hixie> or at least, that wasn't my original intent
  177. # [03:16] <Hixie> thing is, if we do fire popstate for everything
  178. # [03:16] <Hixie> then authors are going to have to distinguish the state=null-because-first case from the state=null-because-hashchange-will-fire-next case
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  180. # [03:17] <Hixie> and that's probably harder than just dealing with those two cases
  181. # [03:18] <jlebar> Hm... I'm not yet convinced that matters. Wouldn't they listen to popstate alone in that case?
  182. # [03:19] <jlebar> * rephrased: If they just ignore hashchanges, do they care about differentiating between them?
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  184. # [03:19] <Hixie> if they don't distinguish them, then each time the user changes the hash manually, the page is going to reset to the initial state
  185. # [03:19] <jlebar> Hmm
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  188. # [03:21] * jlebar wonders how this would change if we had a setState() function. Then you *could* associate state with the initial entry.
  189. # [03:22] <Hixie> true
  190. # [03:22] <Hixie> but it's easy enough to remember the state for the initial state
  191. # [03:23] <Hixie> i mean, what they _should_ do is if state is null, or if hashchange is called, just base the state on the url
  192. # [03:23] <Hixie> i guess we could call popstate always
  193. # [03:23] <Hixie> do any other UAs implement this yet?
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  195. # [03:23] <jlebar> That's how I've been imagining it working. That way you can bookmark the page and it'll do the right thing.
  196. # [03:23] <jlebar> I'm not aware of any other UAs working on this.
  197. # [03:23] <Hixie> try e-mailing the list and seeing what others think of it
  198. # [03:24] <jlebar> Will do.
  199. # [03:24] <Hixie> if it's not too late for shipped implementations, i can change it to just always fire popstate
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  201. # [03:24] <Hixie> my contribution to the web: events firing all the damn time. :-/
  202. # [03:24] <jlebar> Okay. I'll try and send out an e-mail soon. I have a few other things in there, but they don't require the Author to parse the spec for me. :)
  203. # [03:24] <Hixie> i guess nothing i've done with events is as bad as mutation events, still
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  205. # [03:24] <Hixie> jlebar: k :-)
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  207. # [03:25] <jlebar> Thanks, Hixie.
  208. # [03:25] <Hixie> np
  209. # [03:25] * Hixie wonders why adding features to the web platform feels like a continuous exercise in damage mitigation
  210. # [03:25] <Hixie> it's like trying to build a sandcastle under a waterfall
  211. # [03:26] <jlebar> lol. And you have four large, powerful groups of people all telling you that they don't like the shape of your crenelations.
  212. # [03:26] <Hixie> fan more than four
  213. # [03:27] <Hixie> far, even
  214. # [03:27] <Hixie> there's the IETF people, the accessibility people, microsoft, google, apple, mozilla, opera, the TAG, the RDFa people...
  215. # [03:27] <jlebar> Yeah. I'm only just beginning to get into this, but...I don't envy that.
  216. # [03:28] <Hixie> eh, the sad thing is i enjoy it
  217. # [03:28] <Hixie> i'm a sucker i guess :-P
  218. # [03:28] <jlebar> :) I need to go catch my train now. Thanks again!
  219. # [03:28] <Hixie> later!
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  264. # [06:10] <Hixie> shepazu: xhr was part of html5
  265. # [06:10] <Hixie> it was the first spec to be spun off
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  285. # [07:21] <JonathanNeal> Hello all.
  286. # [07:26] <Hixie> anyone know how focus and blur events work on Window objects?
  287. # [07:31] <othermaciej> Hixie: I think they fire based on the window gaining or losing focus
  288. # [07:31] <othermaciej> more detail than that, I don't know
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  290. # [07:32] <Hixie> i guess i'll look into it on wednesday
  291. # [07:32] <Hixie> bed now
  292. # [07:32] <Hixie> nn
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  294. # [07:45] <JonathanNeal> Night, Hixie.
  295. # [07:47] <JonathanNeal> focus is when a particular element is active, like when a link is selected and has that little dotted outline in firefox, or when your mouse is pressed inside an input element and the text cursor is flashing, when you "enter" that element, that is focus.
  296. # [07:47] <JonathanNeal> Blur is the opposite and occurs only when you leave a particular element.
  297. # [07:48] <JonathanNeal> oh geez, you asked about window objects, not elements.
  298. # [07:48] <JonathanNeal> If you're talking about the window that shows you the body of the page, then it works the same as the elements.
  299. # [07:49] <JonathanNeal> when the window is active and when you're on the tab of that particular page, it's active.
  300. # [07:50] <JonathanNeal> you have to actively leave the tab by switching to another one or minimizing the window to trigger blur.
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  317. # [08:47] <shepazu> Hixie: XHR came to W3C long before HTML5 did... with regards to the Rec track, it's not a "spin-off" in that sense
  318. # [08:49] <annevk2> not that long
  319. # [08:49] <annevk2> less than a year
  320. # [08:50] <annevk2> and it did came out of what became known as HTML5 later
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  322. # [08:57] <annevk2> it's even part of the acknowledgments
  323. # [08:59] * hsivonen thinks the maturity level req for normative references is entirely unhelpful
  324. # [09:01] <annevk2> XMLHttpRequest is not moving that fast at the moment
  325. # [09:01] <annevk2> mostly awaiting more impl feedback
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  327. # [09:05] <othermaciej> shepazu: it was spun off before WHATWG Web Apps 1.0 was officially adopted as W3C HTML5
  328. # [09:06] <othermaciej> hsivonen: it somewhat makes sense to me that, if you normatively depend on an unstable spec, it's dubious to declare yourself frozen
  329. # [09:06] <othermaciej> hsivonen: but since Web technology has turned out to be a web of specs and not a hierarchy, it does seem like it could impede progress
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  333. # [09:09] <hsivonen> othermaciej: implementations aren't going to stabilize at a point where they are only implementing RECs
  334. # [09:10] <othermaciej> hsivonen: that tends to undermine the idea of RECs at all
  335. # [09:10] <hsivonen> othermaciej: instead, any particular piece of the platform may advance ahead of components that rely on the service the piece provides
  336. # [09:10] <othermaciej> I am not sure what the right process is for Web standards
  337. # [09:10] <hsivonen> othermaciej: I'm not a believer in RECs, either.
  338. # [09:10] <othermaciej> implementations move too fast
  339. # [09:11] <othermaciej> for the traditional standards process
  340. # [09:11] <othermaciej> but never stabilizing anything also seems like a bad idea
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  342. # [09:12] <hsivonen> it makes sense to stabilize stuff, but making spec division as granular as actual stability would be prohibitively bureaucratic
  343. # [09:12] <hsivonen> we'd have on W3C doc per DOM method
  344. # [09:12] <hsivonen> s/on/one/
  345. # [09:13] <hsivonen> even the WHATWG section-level stability isn't quite granular enough to annotate real implementation stability
  346. # [09:14] <hsivonen> I rather like the analogy Hixie made with U.S. Code
  347. # [09:14] <othermaciej> probably still more practical than doing it per-method
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  349. # [09:16] <annevk2> shepazu, please...
  350. # [09:17] <annevk2> (re latest email)
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  354. # [09:24] <shepazu> annevk2: what? you raised a totally pedantic point that wasn't even correct, nor was it pertinent to the subject at hand... you expected a serious reply?
  355. # [09:26] <annevk2> dream on
  356. # [09:26] <hsivonen> shepazu: what was annevk2's pedantic point?
  357. # [09:28] <shepazu> the same as hixie's, naturally... to which I'd already replied in this channel
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  359. # [09:35] <annevk2> hmm
  360. # [09:35] <annevk2> the WHATWG twitter account is no longer updated?
  361. # [09:36] <annevk2> probably a problem with twitter I suppose :/
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  369. # [09:51] <othermaciej> shepazu: the original contents of the W3C XHR spec were once in "Web Apps 1.0", which at the time was known unofficially as HTML5 and now is known officially as HTML5
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  371. # [09:52] <othermaciej> shepazu: I'm not sure what your goal is in casting doubt on that record
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  424. # [10:24] <shepazu> othermaciej: "casting doubt on that record"? I laid it out explicitly... you might as well ask what anne's point was in claiming XHR originated with the HTML5 spec... it's totally irrelevant to the explanation I was making for Shelley about what the relationship of specs on the Rec-track are
  425. # [10:25] <annevk5> I was just making a small nit about your statement being the editor of XMLHttpRequest and all
  426. # [10:25] <shepazu> why is it always a political debate when someone gets off the party line?
  427. # [10:25] <othermaciej> shepazu: the part of your email he quoted said "XmlHttpRequest (XHR) spec, which was never part of HTML5"
  428. # [10:25] <othermaciej> I think he just gave a simple factual correction, from his perspective
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  430. # [10:25] <othermaciej> I don't believe anyone but you is making it political
  431. # [10:25] <shepazu> pft.
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  435. # [10:26] <othermaciej> it was a side point which I don't think invalidates the rest of your comments
  436. # [10:27] <aho> void save(); // push state on state stack
  437. # [10:27] <aho> void restore(); // pop state stack and restore state
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  439. # [10:27] <aho> why aren't these called push and pop?
  440. # [10:27] <aho> save and restore makes it sound like there can be only one state
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  442. # [10:27] <shepazu> wtf??? http://www.fujinonbinos.com/
  443. # [10:28] <shepazu> (view source)
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  445. # [10:29] <hsivonen> shepazu: awesomeness
  446. # [10:29] <shepazu> code as art?
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  448. # [10:30] <othermaciej> my eyes hurt
  449. # [10:30] <shepazu> the Poseidon Series, appropriately, goes very deep
  450. # [10:31] <foolip> jgraham, Philip`: did either of you happen to implement the DOM APIs for microdata for your demos? I'm wanting to do a microdata experiment but am too lazy to implement the API myself
  451. # [10:31] <annevk5> sicking, I think another important reason for alt= has been search engines
  452. # [10:32] <shepazu> <META NAME="generator" CONTENT="Web Studio, Version 4.0 for Windows">
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  455. # [10:45] <jgraham> foolip: No, mine is python based
  456. # [10:46] <jgraham> so it doesn't really have a concept of DOM
  457. # [10:46] <foolip> too bad
  458. # [10:46] <jgraham> Philip`'s was js based though. I don't know if he tried implementing the DOM APIs
  459. # [10:47] <foolip> I'll have a look then
  460. # [10:48] <othermaciej> annevk2: do search engines read alt?
  461. # [10:48] <othermaciej> annevk2: I wonder why it has not become a search engine spam vector (or maybe it has)
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  464. # [10:54] <annevk5> othermaciej, I think it's in every SEO text book (not that I ever read one)
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  466. # [10:55] <hsivonen> on the codec topic: did VLC regress or remove Dirac support?
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  496. # [11:49] <annevk5> so Firefox does support ISO88599 unlike IE but like Chromium and Opera
  497. # [11:49] <annevk5> but it does not support ISO-8859_9 unlike IE, Chromium and Opera
  498. # [11:58] <aho> how about ISO-8859-9? :>
  499. # [11:59] <annevk5> including the question mark? </smart-ass>
  500. # [11:59] <aho> wouldnt be a question then, would it? :P
  501. # [12:00] <annevk5> you win :)
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  534. # [13:58] <Dashiva> What are the non-aria uses of role now that xhtml2 is going away?
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  536. # [13:58] <hsivonen> Dashiva: none
  537. # [14:00] * gsnedders guesses Hixie is sleeping
  538. # [14:00] <Dashiva> Then what's up with the role vs aria-role thread?
  539. # [14:02] <annevk5> I don't think everyone is in agreement that role="" is just for WAI-ARIA
  540. # [14:02] <hsivonen> Dashiva: role is an inconsistent name when everything else in ARIA has the aria-* prefix
  541. # [14:02] <hsivonen> Dashiva: it sucks, but it's too late. not too serious to worry about, IMO.
  542. # [14:03] <hsivonen> annevk5: who disagrees except the XHTML2 WG?
  543. # [14:03] <annevk5> The people who brought it up I assume
  544. # [14:04] <Dashiva> But nobody knows here what other uses are being considered?
  545. # [14:07] <annevk5> I don't fully understand what they want
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  548. # [14:14] <Lachy> I don't understand that thread at all. Jim stated in his e-mail about it that "ARIA roles are not the *only* use of the role attribute", and regardless of whether that's true or not, it refutes his own argument for making it aria specific
  549. # [14:15] <hsivonen> non-ARIA uses of role are handled by class :-)
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  551. # [14:16] <Dashiva> <element element-role="div">
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  553. # [14:18] <jgraham> I think he wants aria-role and role so that you can have <input type=checkbox aria-role=radio role=url>
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  558. # [16:28] * Topic is 'WHATWG (HTML5) -- http://www.whatwg.org/ -- Logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
  559. # [16:28] * Set by annevk on Thu Feb 05 13:51:18
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  571. # [17:21] <zcorpan> http://www.w3.org/mid/op.uyupstgqidj3kv@simon-pieterss-macbook.local
  572. # [17:22] <annevk2> back to ABNF?
  573. # [17:23] <annevk2> or XML BNF or whatever it is
  574. # [17:23] <zcorpan> it's XML 1.0 EBNF
  575. # [17:24] <annevk2> so the new rule is not matching the EBNF is ignoring the entire PI?
  576. # [17:24] <zcorpan> yeah
  577. # [17:25] <zcorpan> plus duplicate pseudo-attribute and &#x0;
  578. # [17:27] <annevk2> XML infoset? :/
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  581. # [17:28] <zcorpan> the wg doesn't like having it defined in terms of the dom, because not all impl use a dom...
  582. # [17:28] <zcorpan> but they were fine with infoset
  583. # [17:29] <annevk2> hmm, it also doesn't define impl requirements anymore it seems
  584. # [17:29] <annevk2> e.g. section 5 seems more like a description for authors than implementors
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  586. # [17:31] <annevk2> http://simon.html5.org/specs/xml-stylesheet5 is nicer :)
  587. # [17:32] * annevk2 is somewhat positively surprised with http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/http-state/current/msg00191.html
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  592. # [17:46] <jgraham> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8206280.stm
  593. # [17:46] <jgraham> MikeSmith in particular should take note of the guy's name
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  595. # [17:52] <Lachy> "Professor Robert Smith? (the question mark is part of his surname and not a typographical mistake) ..." - That guy must have had some weird parents to have given him a question mark in his name
  596. # [17:53] <jgraham> Lachy: Given that it is to distinguish him from the more famous Robert Smith I guess he got his name changed
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  598. # [17:53] <jgraham> Kinda like Mike(TM)Smith but moreso
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  600. # [17:53] <Lachy> I hadn't read that far through the article to see that yet
  601. # [17:54] <Lachy> So I guess he added it himself
  602. # [17:54] <gsnedders> n00b
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  606. # [17:58] <Dashiva> jgraham: It's a shame the study uses such a flawed model
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  608. # [17:59] <Dashiva> Pretty basic mistake, too, I wonder how they missed it
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  610. # [18:00] <zcorpan> gsnedders: fixed the charref issue
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  618. # [18:11] <jgraham> Dashiva: I assume the study was designed to give the publicity-happy result
  619. # [18:12] <jgraham> Although that may be unduly cynical, it is worth noting that it is by someone who thought that doing a study on disease propogation using zombies was a good idea and who appended a question mark to their name
  620. # [18:14] <Dashiva> So you believe that in a model where zombies can't re-reanimate, humans and zombies could coexist peacefully?
  621. # [18:16] <annevk5> jgraham, good enough to make BBC News
  622. # [18:16] <annevk5> apparently :)
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  625. # [18:16] <Dashiva> Props to BBC for finding a guy smart enough to point out the obvious flaw in the study :)
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  627. # [18:19] <jgraham> annevk5: "silly season"
  628. # [18:19] <annevk5> which reminds me, where is RB?
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  630. # [18:21] <zcorpan> annevk2: don't summon him please
  631. # [18:23] <jgraham> I have to say that every time Dmitry Titov posts I have a momentary panic that it is Dmitry Turin
  632. # [18:26] <annevk5> foolip, gonna blog about http://twitter.com/foolip/status/3384463111 ?
  633. # [18:27] <foolip> annevk5: maybe after a finish an experiment with the Microdata DOM API (which I have to implement first)
  634. # [18:27] <foolip> s/a/I/
  635. # [18:28] <foolip> (in JS that is, not in browser)
  636. # [18:30] <gsnedders> "If current node is a pre, textarea, or listing element, append a U+000A LINE FEED (LF) character." — does anything do that?
  637. # [18:30] <gsnedders> As far as I can tell nothing does that
  638. # [18:33] <jgraham> Doesn't seem worth worrying about unless it causes compat issues
  639. # [18:33] <annevk5> but things probably should because otherwise we lose a \n each time it's parsed and then serialized
  640. # [18:34] <annevk5> and then parsed again, doh
  641. # [18:34] <annevk5> foolip, k
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  647. # [18:49] <JonathanNeal> Goodmorning!
  648. # [18:49] <zcorpan> hsivonen: a difference with parsing into the element itself when setting innerHTML (instead of doing what the spec says): <pre>.innerHTML = '\nx'
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  651. # [18:50] <Lachy> Good evening JonathanNeal
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  654. # [19:00] <JonathanNeal> Hello all.
  655. # [19:00] <JonathanNeal> I mean, goodevening Lachy.
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  657. # [19:04] <JonathanNeal> Where are you based?
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  660. # [19:09] <miketaylr> it's lunch time over here, so good afternoon JonathanNeal
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  662. # [19:18] <JonathanNeal> Goodevening Lachy and goodafternoon miketaylr.
  663. # [19:20] <Dashiva> i18n('greeting')
  664. # [19:20] <JonathanNeal> Thanks for all of your guys help so far, I'm making good progress with http://madison.thewikies.com/html5/liferay/ and I'll be working on the core of the portal to have the default unstyled theme be an HTML5 semantic document.
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  672. # [19:57] <Lachy> JonathanNeal, I'm in Norway
  673. # [19:58] <JonathanNeal> Groovy.
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  707. # [21:42] <othermaciej> hi everyone
  708. # [21:44] <TabAtkins> Yo, Maciej
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  748. # [23:34] <JonathanNeal> hi othermaciej, delayed.
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  754. # [23:56] <Philip`> foolip: I tried starting to implement the microdata DOM stuff, before deciding it required more effort and knowledge than I wanted to bother with
  755. # Session Close: Wed Aug 19 00:00:00 2009

The end :)