/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2009-10-09 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Fri Oct 09 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:02] * Joins: weinig (n=weinig@17.244.24.195)
  4. # [00:03] * Joins: Super-Dot (n=Super-Do@66-240-27-50.isp.comcastbusiness.net)
  5. # [00:04] * Quits: Lachy (n=Lachlan@202.171.174.251) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  6. # [00:07] * Joins: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@EM114-48-38-203.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  7. # [00:08] * Joins: Lachy (n=Lachlan@202.171.174.251)
  8. # [00:10] * Quits: Phae (n=phaeness@cpc2-acto9-0-0-cust364.brnt.cable.ntl.com)
  9. # [00:15] * Parts: benward (n=benward@nat/yahoo/x-xrgqpcjtdqzsdvuh)
  10. # [00:16] * Quits: Midler (n=midler@212.37.124.243) ("Leaving.")
  11. # [00:17] * dbgi2IAm is now known as dbgi
  12. # [00:29] * Joins: doublec (n=doublec@203-97-204-82.dsl.clear.net.nz)
  13. # [00:46] * Quits: Lachy (n=Lachlan@202.171.174.251) ("Leaving")
  14. # [00:47] * Joins: abarth (n=abarth@c-98-210-108-185.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  15. # [00:49] * Joins: Lachy (n=Lachlan@202.171.174.251)
  16. # [00:51] * Joins: drunknbass_work (n=aaron@pool-71-107-253-243.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net)
  17. # [00:52] * Joins: Super-Dot_ (n=Super-Do@66-240-27-50.isp.comcastbusiness.net)
  18. # [00:52] * Quits: Super-Dot (n=Super-Do@66-240-27-50.isp.comcastbusiness.net) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  19. # [00:52] * Super-Dot_ is now known as Super-Dot
  20. # [00:53] * Quits: drunknbass_work (n=aaron@pool-71-107-253-243.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) (Client Quit)
  21. # [00:54] * Joins: drunknbass_work (n=aaron@pool-71-107-253-243.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net)
  22. # [00:56] * Joins: yatil (n=Adium@78.104.102.186)
  23. # [00:56] * Joins: SamerZ (n=SamerZ@CPE00222d5410b8-CM00222d5410b5.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  24. # [01:04] * Quits: weinig (n=weinig@17.244.24.195)
  25. # [01:07] * Quits: Lachy (n=Lachlan@202.171.174.251) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  26. # [01:08] * Joins: dimich (n=dimich@74.125.59.65)
  27. # [01:08] * Quits: mitnavn (n=mitnavn@unaffiliated/mitnavn)
  28. # [01:20] * Joins: weinig (n=weinig@17.246.17.253)
  29. # [01:21] * lmorchard is now known as lmorchard|away
  30. # [01:22] * lmorchard|away is now known as lmorchard
  31. # [01:24] * lmorchard is now known as lmorchard|away
  32. # [01:26] * Joins: boblet (n=boblet@p1254-ipbf304osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp)
  33. # [01:34] * Quits: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@nat/google/x-pyoxznogvqejlpmz)
  34. # [01:38] * Joins: ojan (n=ojan@nat/google/x-bmjpwcqhemokolnq)
  35. # [01:44] * Joins: shepazu (n=schepers@202.171.174.251)
  36. # [01:45] * Quits: explicit_ (i=bill@cpc1-ely05-2-0-cust456.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com) (Client Quit)
  37. # [01:47] * lmorchard|away is now known as lmorchard
  38. # [01:47] * Quits: shepazu (n=schepers@202.171.174.251) (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  39. # [01:49] * Quits: ojan (n=ojan@nat/google/x-bmjpwcqhemokolnq)
  40. # [01:51] * Quits: yatil (n=Adium@78.104.102.186) ("Leaving.")
  41. # [01:55] * Joins: fishd (n=darin@nat/google/session)
  42. # [01:58] * Joins: Lachy (n=Lachlan@202.171.174.251)
  43. # [01:59] * Joins: shepazu (n=schepers@202.171.174.251)
  44. # [01:59] * Quits: Lachy (n=Lachlan@202.171.174.251) (Client Quit)
  45. # [01:59] * Quits: shepazu (n=schepers@202.171.174.251) (Remote closed the connection)
  46. # [02:00] * Joins: Lachy (n=Lachlan@202.171.174.251)
  47. # [02:04] * Quits: Lachy (n=Lachlan@202.171.174.251) (Client Quit)
  48. # [02:07] * Joins: nessy (n=nessy@115.128.42.233)
  49. # [02:21] * Quits: gavin_ (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
  50. # [02:21] * Joins: gavin_ (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin)
  51. # [02:23] * Quits: ray (i=ray@drong.notacat.org) (pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  52. # [02:23] * Joins: jianli (n=jianli@74.125.59.73)
  53. # [02:26] * Joins: ray (i=ray@drong.notacat.org)
  54. # [02:27] * Quits: yutak_home (n=kee@M006079.ppp.dion.ne.jp) ("Ex-Chat")
  55. # [02:32] * Quits: fishd (n=darin@nat/google/x-ojclfdmghlonsfks) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  56. # [02:33] * Joins: wakaba_ (n=wakaba_@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
  57. # [02:39] * Joins: Hish (n=chatzill@p57B7D6D6.dip.t-dialin.net)
  58. # [02:42] * Quits: ap_ (n=ap@17.246.19.174)
  59. # [02:46] * Quits: aroben (n=aroben@unaffiliated/aroben) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  60. # [02:48] * Quits: sicking (n=chatzill@nat/mozilla/x-oysbcvsxdxojofcl) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  61. # [02:53] * Joins: Lachy (n=Lachlan@202.171.174.251)
  62. # [03:00] * Joins: miketaylr (n=miketayl@user-0cdf5gs.cable.mindspring.com)
  63. # [03:10] * Quits: weinig (n=weinig@17.246.17.253)
  64. # [03:19] * Joins: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  65. # [03:28] * Quits: GPHemsley (n=GPHemsle@pdpc/supporter/student/GPHemsley) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  66. # [03:28] * Quits: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@EM114-48-38-203.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) ("Tomorrow to fresh woods, and pastures new.")
  67. # [03:29] * Quits: dave_levin (n=dave_lev@74.125.59.73)
  68. # [03:30] * Quits: ttepasse (n=ttepas--@p5B01347D.dip.t-dialin.net) ("?Q")
  69. # [03:37] * Quits: Lachy (n=Lachlan@202.171.174.251) (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  70. # [03:43] * Quits: Hish (n=chatzill@p57B7D6D6.dip.t-dialin.net) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  71. # [03:46] * Quits: Super-Dot (n=Super-Do@66-240-27-50.isp.comcastbusiness.net)
  72. # [03:48] * Quits: SamerZ (n=SamerZ@CPE00222d5410b8-CM00222d5410b5.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  73. # [03:53] * Joins: weinig (n=weinig@c-67-180-35-124.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  74. # [03:55] * Quits: dbaron (n=dbaron@nat/mozilla/x-orfuwbohmduqjpqe) ("8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.")
  75. # [03:55] * Joins: ginger (n=nessy@202.171.174.251)
  76. # [03:58] * Joins: erlehmann_ (n=erlehman@dslb-088-075-183-019.pools.arcor-ip.net)
  77. # [04:00] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@17.203.15.228)
  78. # [04:00] * Joins: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@EM114-48-167-44.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  79. # [04:00] * Quits: Amorphous (i=jan@unaffiliated/amorphous) (Connection timed out)
  80. # [04:01] * Quits: ginger (n=nessy@202.171.174.251) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  81. # [04:02] <Hixie> ok. The green line is at 0. (Well, it's at 1, but that 1 issue is "define SQL" which isn't a blocker for any spec but WebDB.)
  82. # [04:02] <Hixie> food now.
  83. # [04:03] * Joins: Amorphous (i=jan@unaffiliated/amorphous)
  84. # [04:08] * Quits: nessy (n=nessy@115.128.42.233) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  85. # [04:09] * Joins: sicking (n=chatzill@c-69-181-197-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  86. # [04:13] * Quits: miketaylr (n=miketayl@user-0cdf5gs.cable.mindspring.com) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  87. # [04:13] * Joins: miketaylr (n=miketayl@user-0cdf5gs.cable.mindspring.com)
  88. # [04:14] * Quits: miketaylr (n=miketayl@user-0cdf5gs.cable.mindspring.com) (Client Quit)
  89. # [04:14] * Quits: erlehmann (n=erlehman@dslb-092-078-132-231.pools.arcor-ip.net) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  90. # [04:17] * Joins: miketaylr (n=miketayl@user-0cdf5gs.cable.mindspring.com)
  91. # [04:23] * Quits: miketaylr (n=miketayl@user-0cdf5gs.cable.mindspring.com) ("Leaving...")
  92. # [04:25] * Joins: mitnavn (n=mitnavn@unaffiliated/mitnavn)
  93. # [04:28] * Quits: hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  94. # [04:31] * Joins: miketaylr (n=miketayl@user-0cdf5gs.cable.mindspring.com)
  95. # [04:33] * Joins: cying (n=cying@adsl-75-18-216-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
  96. # [04:37] * Quits: mitnavn (n=mitnavn@unaffiliated/mitnavn)
  97. # [04:42] * Joins: SamerZ (n=SamerZ@CPE00222d5410b8-CM00222d5410b5.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  98. # [04:45] * Quits: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@EM114-48-167-44.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) ("Tomorrow to fresh woods, and pastures new.")
  99. # [04:48] * Joins: Lachy (n=Lachlan@202.171.174.251)
  100. # [04:53] * Joins: GPHemsley (n=GPHemsle@pdpc/supporter/student/GPHemsley)
  101. # [04:56] * Quits: JoePeck (n=JoePeck@cpe-74-69-85-249.rochester.res.rr.com) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  102. # [04:56] * Joins: JoePeck (n=JoePeck@cpe-74-69-85-249.rochester.res.rr.com)
  103. # [04:57] * Quits: weinig (n=weinig@c-67-180-35-124.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  104. # [04:59] * Joins: fishd (n=darin@c-67-180-164-209.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  105. # [05:00] * Joins: nessy (n=nessy@202.171.174.251)
  106. # [05:04] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@c-69-181-42-237.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  107. # [05:05] * Joins: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@dhcp-0059871802-99-6d.client.student.harvard.edu)
  108. # [05:17] * Quits: Lachy (n=Lachlan@202.171.174.251) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  109. # [05:29] * Joins: dimich_ (n=dimich@c-98-203-252-208.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  110. # [05:31] * Quits: archtech (n=sv@83.228.56.37)
  111. # [05:35] * Joins: heycam (n=cam@clm-laptop.infotech.monash.edu.au)
  112. # [05:52] * Joins: mitnavn (n=mitnavn@unaffiliated/mitnavn)
  113. # [05:53] * Joins: fishd_ (n=darin@72.14.224.1)
  114. # [05:55] * Quits: mitnavn (n=mitnavn@unaffiliated/mitnavn) (Client Quit)
  115. # [05:57] * Joins: mitnavn (n=mitnavn@unaffiliated/mitnavn)
  116. # [05:59] * Quits: JoePeck (n=JoePeck@cpe-74-69-85-249.rochester.res.rr.com)
  117. # [05:59] * Quits: GPHemsley (n=GPHemsle@pdpc/supporter/student/GPHemsley) ("Leaving")
  118. # [05:59] * Joins: archtech (n=sv@83.228.56.37)
  119. # [05:59] * Joins: JoePeck (n=JoePeck@cpe-74-69-85-249.rochester.res.rr.com)
  120. # [05:59] * Joins: GPHemsley (n=GPHemsle@bsc.qc.cuny.edu)
  121. # [06:00] * Quits: fishd (n=darin@c-67-180-164-209.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
  122. # [06:18] * Joins: dave_levin (n=dave_lev@c-98-203-247-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  123. # [06:18] <Hixie> sicking: i'm looking at async=""
  124. # [06:19] <Hixie> and your e-mail
  125. # [06:19] <Hixie> hsivonen: i'm lookin at async=""
  126. # [06:19] <Hixie> and your bug
  127. # [06:19] <Hixie> i wonder if i should make async="" and defer="" just be ignored for anything but parser-inserted elements
  128. # [06:20] <Hixie> sicking's suggestion to make async scripts work just like appendChild()ed scripts makes sense
  129. # [06:21] <Hixie> but it means async="" only has an effect when parsing
  130. # [06:21] <Hixie> should we make defer="" consistent with that?
  131. # [06:21] <Hixie> or should it still have an effect (when async="" isn't also present)
  132. # [06:21] * Quits: borismus (n=borismus@CMU-348674.WV.CC.CMU.EDU)
  133. # [06:21] <Hixie> it seems weird that right now you cannot appendChild() in a way that blocks, but you can appendChild() with defer and it'll execute later than it otherwise could
  134. # [06:22] <Hixie> whereas in the markup you have to go out of your way to get that effect
  135. # [06:24] * Quits: Dashiva (i=Dashiva@wikia/Dashiva) (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
  136. # [06:24] * Joins: Dashiva (i=Dashiva@wikia/Dashiva)
  137. # [06:27] * Quits: SamerZ (n=SamerZ@CPE00222d5410b8-CM00222d5410b5.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  138. # [06:30] * Quits: Dashiva (i=Dashiva@wikia/Dashiva) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  139. # [06:30] * Joins: Dashiva (i=Dashiva@m223j.studby.ntnu.no)
  140. # [06:32] * fishd_ is now known as fishd
  141. # [06:35] * Joins: ginger (n=nessy@115.128.44.0)
  142. # [06:38] <othermaciej> Hixie: WebKit makes all programmatically inserted scripts act effectively like async=""
  143. # [06:38] <Hixie> the spec does too now
  144. # [06:38] <othermaciej> (we don't have the async attribute, but appendChild()ing a script won't block and there is no order guarantee)
  145. # [06:39] <othermaciej> well, it won't block on I/O, could block if it's a long-running inline script of course
  146. # [06:42] <Hixie> i wonder what zcorpan wants me to call the uberdocument he wants the whatwg to host
  147. # [06:42] <Hixie> containing all of html5, eventsource, localstorage, webdb, websockets api and protocol, vocabs, etc
  148. # [06:43] <othermaciej> I dunno
  149. # [06:44] <Hixie> i could call it Web Applications 1.0
  150. # [06:44] <othermaciej> the uberdocument does not sound very useful to me; his explanation (broken cross-references) sounds like a reason to keep them separate so people notice and point it out
  151. # [06:44] <othermaciej> that being said, having information in more forms is in general a good thing
  152. # [06:45] <Hixie> the broken cross-references are only broken because the documents are split
  153. # [06:45] <Hixie> and gsnedders' script doesn't do cross-doc references
  154. # [06:46] <othermaciej> if it will be fixed by a tool change then I guess it's less important to make every instance obvious
  155. # [06:46] <Hixie> the instances are already obvious
  156. # [06:46] <GPHemsley> Hixie: Have you seen the latest <cite> discussion?
  157. # [06:46] <Hixie> they have thick blue or green underline
  158. # [06:46] <Hixie> GPHemsley: haven't read it yet, no
  159. # [06:46] <GPHemsley> k
  160. # [06:48] * Quits: nessy (n=nessy@202.171.174.251) (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  161. # [06:53] <GPHemsley> Is anyone else having trouble connecting to the Mozilla IRC server?
  162. # [06:53] <Hixie> wfm
  163. # [06:53] <GPHemsley> Most of my connection attempts time out, and when I do get through, I get Z-lined as a dronebot, for some reason.
  164. # [06:54] <Hixie> weird
  165. # [06:57] * Joins: borismus (n=borismus@c-98-219-161-78.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
  166. # [06:57] * Quits: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  167. # [07:00] * Joins: Lachy (n=Lachlan@202.171.174.251)
  168. # [07:00] * Quits: Lachy (n=Lachlan@202.171.174.251) (Remote closed the connection)
  169. # [07:00] * Joins: Lachy (n=Lachlan@202.171.174.251)
  170. # [07:03] * Joins: weinig (n=weinig@c-67-180-35-124.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  171. # [07:04] * Joins: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@tea12.w3.mag.keio.ac.jp)
  172. # [07:04] * Quits: ginger (n=nessy@115.128.44.0) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  173. # [07:05] * Quits: miketaylr (n=miketayl@user-0cdf5gs.cable.mindspring.com)
  174. # [07:19] * Joins: sirdarckcat (n=sdc@121.0.29.226)
  175. # [07:19] * Joins: Lachy_ (n=Lachlan@202.171.174.251)
  176. # [07:20] * Joins: nessy (n=nessy@115.128.23.30)
  177. # [07:21] * Quits: cying (n=cying@adsl-75-18-216-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
  178. # [07:21] * Quits: Lachy (n=Lachlan@202.171.174.251) (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  179. # [07:23] * Quits: Lachy_ (n=Lachlan@202.171.174.251) (Client Quit)
  180. # [07:29] * Quits: doublec (n=doublec@203-97-204-82.dsl.clear.net.nz) ("Leaving")
  181. # [07:35] <sicking> Hixie: still there?
  182. # [07:35] <Hixie> hey
  183. # [07:36] <sicking> so I think async should have meaning always
  184. # [07:36] <sicking> *but*
  185. # [07:36] <sicking> that always makes sense if I get my other suggestion, that i haven't sent to the list yet, goes through
  186. # [07:36] <sicking> so Gecko today always executs scripts in the order they were inserted into the DOM
  187. # [07:37] <sicking> in order to not have interdependency issues
  188. # [07:37] <sicking> i'm told webkit doesn't do that
  189. # [07:37] <Hixie> nor does html5 now
  190. # [07:37] <sicking> i know
  191. # [07:37] <Hixie> as you suggested :-)
  192. # [07:37] <sicking> well, i just suggested to change async, so far
  193. # [07:38] <sicking> i'm curious what IE does
  194. # [07:38] <sicking> i'm sort of worried about changing geckos behavior, that dynamically created scripts are essentially always async
  195. # [07:39] <sicking> s/that/so that/
  196. # [07:40] <sicking> i totally think that async should always execute as-soon-as-possible-order-doesn't-matter
  197. # [07:41] <othermaciej> we don't seem to have problems with programatically added scripts executing async, but it's entirely possible that it causes subtle compat issues that we just haven't diagnosed yet
  198. # [07:41] <othermaciej> though I tend to suspect not
  199. # [07:41] <sicking> yeah, i'm of split mind, which is why i want to test in IE
  200. # [07:42] <othermaciej> but obviously it's hard to tell how some of these edge case behavior differences impact the long tail of the Web
  201. # [07:42] <sicking> right
  202. # [07:42] <othermaciej> we did have some kind of bug reports on dynamically inserted scripts (can't remember if it didn't work at all or something...)
  203. # [07:42] <othermaciej> lemme search the ChangeLogs
  204. # [07:43] * Joins: doublec (n=doublec@118-92-57-189.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz)
  205. # [07:44] <othermaciej> we had a bug where a dynamically insered script that removed itself would cause a crash
  206. # [07:45] <othermaciej> (so we've seen at least some examples of people doing strange things)
  207. # [07:46] <Hixie> on the web? people doing strange things? surely you jest
  208. # [07:46] <Hixie> surely, sir
  209. # [07:46] <Hixie> that seems highly unlikely
  210. # [07:46] <othermaciej> hmm, speaking of <script>, one thing we recently did is stop executing scripts with a "for" attribute
  211. # [07:47] <othermaciej> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21193
  212. # [07:47] <sicking> othermaciej: ouch
  213. # [07:48] <sicking> othermaciej: i know we ended up with some hacks for that
  214. # [07:48] <sicking> othermaciej: back in the day gecko actually supported the "for" and "event" attributes. But only in embedded environments i think
  215. # [07:48] <othermaciej> I'm not sure we want to actually implement <script for>, but since it doesn't seem viable to completely ignore it, it would be good to agree on some interoperable behavior
  216. # [07:49] <sicking> othermaciej: ugh, i should have removed that from gecko a long time ago
  217. # [07:49] <Hixie> well i'm happy to just say "if there's a for attribute, abort these steps" somewhere
  218. # [07:49] <sicking> othermaciej: yeah, i definitely don't want to implement for fully
  219. # [07:49] <Hixie> file a bug :-)
  220. # [07:50] <sicking> othermaciej: lemme check what gecko does
  221. # [07:50] <othermaciej> sicking: ok
  222. # [07:50] <othermaciej> Hixie: will do once we figure out what should happen
  223. # [07:50] <Hixie> k thanks
  224. # [07:51] * Quits: boblet (n=boblet@p1254-ipbf304osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp) ("thxbye")
  225. # [07:51] <sicking> this stuff is nasty
  226. # [07:51] <sicking> so
  227. # [07:52] <sicking> if "for" or "event" is missing, process as normal
  228. # [07:52] <sicking> if "for" is something other than "window", don't process
  229. # [07:54] <sicking> if "event" starts with "onload " or "onload(" (case insensitive compare) then don't process
  230. # [07:54] <sicking> otherwise process as normal
  231. # [07:54] <othermaciej> wild
  232. # [07:54] <sicking> oh yeah
  233. # [07:54] <othermaciej> wait
  234. # [07:54] <sicking> so i think the situation was this
  235. # [07:55] <othermaciej> so if "for" is "window" and "event" does *not* start with "onload" you run the script?
  236. # [07:55] <sicking> at the dawn of time we ignored 'for' and 'event'
  237. # [07:55] <othermaciej> so <script for="window" event="onclick"> would run immediately?
  238. # [07:56] <Hixie> that's pretty special
  239. # [07:56] <Hixie> even for the web :-P
  240. # [07:56] <sicking> sorry
  241. # [07:56] <sicking> arg, so many negatives
  242. # [07:57] <sicking> so if it starts with "onload " or "onload(", then run as normal
  243. # [07:57] <sicking> otherwise don't process
  244. # [07:57] <othermaciej> that makes more sense
  245. # [07:57] <sicking> but only by a smidgen
  246. # [07:58] <othermaciej> so let me try to restate it to make sure I understand
  247. # [07:58] <sicking> i'd really hate to put this in the spec though
  248. # [07:58] <sicking> i've been meaning to nuke all of this crap for ages, never got around to it
  249. # [07:58] <sicking> basically, if it has "for" *and* "event", then don't process
  250. # [07:59] <sicking> *except*
  251. # [07:59] * Quits: heycam (n=cam@clm-laptop.infotech.monash.edu.au) ("bye")
  252. # [07:59] <othermaciej> well, maybe WebKit's recent behavior is good enough - I dunno
  253. # [07:59] * Parts: sirdarckcat (n=sdc@121.0.29.226)
  254. # [07:59] <othermaciej> we just refuse to run anything with a "for" attribute
  255. # [07:59] <sicking> if it's for="window" event="onload(..."
  256. # [07:59] <sicking> or for="window" event="onload ..."
  257. # [07:59] <othermaciej> ok
  258. # [08:00] <othermaciej> what if it's just event="onload" with no paren or space?
  259. # [08:00] <Hixie> event="" in IE can have ()s? o_O
  260. # [08:01] <othermaciej> getting back to dynamically inserted scripts - here is where we added support: http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/9105
  261. # [08:02] <othermaciej> the bug is sadly internal bug we had numerous separate reports and developer requests
  262. # [08:02] <othermaciej> since 2005, we have not had a bug that we diagnosed as being due to lack of order guarantee
  263. # [08:04] <othermaciej> we later added load events for script elements: http://bugzilla.opendarwin.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5812
  264. # [08:04] <othermaciej> sorry, antique URL, you want https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5812
  265. # [10:04] * Disconnected
  266. # [10:05] * Attempting to rejoin channel #whatwg
  267. # [10:05] * Rejoined channel #whatwg
  268. # [10:05] * Topic is 'WHATWG (HTML5) -- http://www.whatwg.org/ -- Logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
  269. # [10:05] * Set by annevk3 on Wed Sep 09 23:23:54
  270. # [10:06] * Joins: othermaciej_ (n=mjs@c-69-181-42-237.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  271. # [12:06] * Disconnected
  272. # [12:07] * Attempting to rejoin channel #whatwg
  273. # [12:07] * Rejoined channel #whatwg
  274. # [12:07] * Topic is 'WHATWG (HTML5) -- http://www.whatwg.org/ -- Logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
  275. # [12:07] * Set by annevk3 on Wed Sep 09 23:23:54
  276. # [14:07] * Disconnected
  277. # [14:08] * Attempting to rejoin channel #whatwg
  278. # [14:08] * Rejoined channel #whatwg
  279. # [14:08] * Topic is 'WHATWG (HTML5) -- http://www.whatwg.org/ -- Logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
  280. # [14:08] * Set by annevk3 on Wed Sep 09 23:23:54
  281. # [14:09] <smaug> now Chrome went to some strange state where it loads wrong url to iframe, even if script explicitly says something else :/
  282. # [14:09] * smaug needs to try trunk Chrome
  283. # [14:09] * Quits: lazni (n=lazni@117.4.225.7) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  284. # [14:13] * Joins: yutak_home (n=kee@M006079.ppp.dion.ne.jp)
  285. # [14:13] * Quits: gsnedders (n=gsnedder@pat.se.opera.com) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  286. # [14:14] <Philip`> "< hsivonen> multiple instances of one image can't be totally rare" - <img src=blank.gif><img src=blank.gif><img src=blank.gif>...
  287. # [14:16] <hsivonen> the Web should pin blank.gif to cache
  288. # [14:16] <Philip`> Lots of sites have hundreds like that
  289. # [14:17] <Philip`> One page had the same <script src> 1001 times
  290. # [14:18] <Philip`> Zillions of pages have half a dozen identical ad-insertion scripts
  291. # [14:18] <hsivonen> ouch. I hope these aren't the top sites whose perf makes or breaks the perception of the perf of a browser
  292. # [14:19] <Philip`> (The 1001 is probably a weird anomaly and the page doesn't exist now anyway)
  293. # [14:19] * Joins: remysharp (n=remyshar@vinov2.gotadsl.co.uk)
  294. # [14:19] * Quits: pmuellr (n=pmuellr@user-0ce2gjn.cable.mindspring.com)
  295. # [14:20] <Philip`> The ad-insertion scripts are on lots of sensible legitimate-looking sites
  296. # [14:20] * Joins: gsnedders (n=gsnedder@pat.se.opera.com)
  297. # [14:20] <remysharp> hi - couple of things - the multipage HTML5 spec is broken again (I thought it was fixed) :-(
  298. # [14:20] <smaug> Hixie: with the latest nightly chromium I do get the same "TopLevelA", but "replaced iframe" problem
  299. # [14:21] <Philip`> remysharp: It was fixed :-)
  300. # [14:21] <remysharp> Philip`: it broke again
  301. # [14:21] <Philip`> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/stderr.txt
  302. # [14:21] <smaug> does nightly chromium use latest webkit trunk?
  303. # [14:21] <Philip`> Hixie: lxml doesn't like HTML5 elements :-(
  304. # [14:23] * Joins: robert__ (n=robertny@mail.valtech.se)
  305. # [14:23] <remysharp> section doesn't allow aria roles according to the validator, but I couldn't see that restriction on the section element
  306. # [14:23] <remysharp> as robert__ is about to say!
  307. # [14:24] * Joins: myakura (n=myakura@p1193-ipbf5203marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  308. # [14:24] <robert__> Ok, I just bother people and then they go here... :-)
  309. # [14:24] * gsnedders grumbles something about the complexity of configuring mice in Ubuntu
  310. # [14:24] <robert__> But yes, the spec claims the role="main" is allowed on the section element, but any HTML5 validator claims it isn't
  311. # [14:25] <gsnedders> Then I guess the validator is wrong :)
  312. # [14:25] <robert__> Yeah, me too
  313. # [14:25] <robert__> Just wanted some confirmation wheter that is the case
  314. # [14:25] <Philip`> gsnedders: What do you expect when you're configuring protrusions into our dimension of hyper-intellegent pan-dimensional beings?
  315. # [14:25] <remysharp> gsnedders: is there a way to bug report on the validator?
  316. # [14:26] <hsivonen> remysharp: bugzilla.validator.nu
  317. # [14:26] <gsnedders> Philip`: Magic.
  318. # [14:26] <remysharp> hsivonen: wholesome :) cheers
  319. # [14:27] <Philip`> http://www.gansudaily.com.cn/20040715/802/default.htm has 691 instances of the same script src
  320. # [14:28] * Parts: adactio (n=adactio@host86-163-206-16.range86-163.btcentralplus.com)
  321. # [14:28] * hsivonen wonders what the purpose of those scripts is
  322. # [14:29] * Quits: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@tea12.w3.mag.keio.ac.jp) ("Tomorrow to fresh woods, and pastures new.")
  323. # [14:29] <hsivonen> I also wonder what the median number of scripts, sheets and images on a page is
  324. # [14:30] * Joins: jmb^ (n=jmb@login.ecs.soton.ac.uk)
  325. # [14:31] <Philip`> http://www.alhadath.info/akhbar/2/197.php has awesome markup
  326. # [14:31] <Philip`> include 62 of the same stylesheet
  327. # [14:31] <Philip`> *including
  328. # [14:31] <Philip`> Seems like only a few pages have more than a dozen, but a lot have a handful of the same <link href>
  329. # [14:32] * hsivonen wonders what post processing has happened after that markup left FrontPage
  330. # [14:32] * Philip` has no data for medians
  331. # [14:34] * Quits: robert__ (n=robertny@mail.valtech.se)
  332. # [14:34] <Philip`> hsivonen: Do you care about more detailed data on repeated <script src>/<link href> values?
  333. # [14:35] <hsivonen> I just care about a ballpark size for the size of the map holding the URLs
  334. # [14:35] <Philip`> Ah
  335. # [14:36] <hsivonen> I guessed 127
  336. # [14:36] * Joins: fsalgo (n=fsalgo@59.162.86.164)
  337. # [14:38] <Philip`> The mean number of elements per page on dmoz.org was 18 <img>, 1.2 <link>, 3.8 <script>
  338. # [14:39] <hsivonen> thanks
  339. # [14:39] <Philip`> I would guess the curves are such that median would be lower than mean
  340. # [14:39] * hsivonen lowers the guess to 23
  341. # [14:40] <Philip`> (since there'll be a few pages with abnormally many elements, and none with abnormally few (because even 0 wouldn't be abnormal))
  342. # [14:41] <Philip`> Do you really want an average estimate? I'd have thought you'd care more about optimising slow pages, i.e. abnormally complex pages
  343. # [14:42] <Philip`> (Those means come from http://philip.html5.org/data/tag-count-total.txt)
  344. # [14:42] <hsivonen> the hash wants me to pick a number
  345. # [14:42] * Quits: jmb (n=jmb@login.ecs.soton.ac.uk) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  346. # [14:43] <Philip`> Pick 1
  347. # [14:43] <hsivonen> presumably picking a big number wastes memory, presumably picking a small number makes things slighly slower
  348. # [14:43] <hsivonen> probably I don't have the right data to decide anyway
  349. # [14:43] <hsivonen> and I'd be better off if the hash creator had picked something at random
  350. # [14:44] * Philip` presumes picking 0 is not possible, and so 1 has the justification that it's the first possible number, which is less arbitrary than 23 :-)
  351. # [14:44] <hsivonen> Philip`: thanks. I think I'm going to stick to 23
  352. # [14:44] * Joins: robert__ (n=robertny@mail.valtech.se)
  353. # [14:45] <robert__> Ok, sorry for stupid question, but at http://bugzilla.validator.nu, is there any way to turn off the display of my e-mail address? Couldn't find anything in the Preferences...
  354. # [14:46] <hsivonen> robert__: nope. it's a vanilla bugzilla
  355. # [14:46] <robert__> Ok... Sorry to hear that, but thanks for the reply!
  356. # [14:47] * Parts: annevk2 (n=annevk@pat.se.opera.com)
  357. # [14:48] * Joins: annevk2 (n=annevk@pat.se.opera.com)
  358. # [14:48] <smaug> Hixie: I can't reproduce the toplevelA/replaced-iframe problem on nightly webkit, but that build seems to have pretty broken cache/unload handling. (unload doesn't fire always)
  359. # [14:48] <Philip`> So, um, does anyone know how to fix http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/stderr.txt trivially?
  360. # [14:49] <Philip`> (without using a parser that is incredibly slow (i.e. html5lib))
  361. # [14:50] * Quits: robert__ (n=robertny@mail.valtech.se)
  362. # [14:53] * hsivonen fails miserably at guessing which chapter of SVG 1.2 Tiny deals with bitmaps
  363. # [14:53] * hsivonen loads the PDF
  364. # [14:53] <gsnedders> Philip`: Rewrite html5lib in C.
  365. # [14:54] <hsivonen> whoa. there's a single-page version. yay
  366. # [14:54] <Philip`> gsnedders: No thanks
  367. # [14:55] <Philip`> I wonder if http://intertwingly.net/blog/2009/06/12/Validator-Nu-on-GCJ still works...
  368. # [14:55] <gsnedders> html2xml + xml parser support in Anolis?
  369. # [14:55] <gsnedders> :P
  370. # [14:58] <Philip`> I don't care about Anolis at all
  371. # [14:58] <Philip`> I just want the spec-splitter to work with the current input document
  372. # [15:02] * jmb^ is now known as jmb
  373. # [15:05] * Joins: pmuellr (n=pmuellr@rrcs-70-63-146-90.midsouth.biz.rr.com)
  374. # [15:05] <smaug> Hixie: ah, webkit nightlies have some experimental "break unload" feature set on. That breaks my testing
  375. # [15:09] * Joins: zdobersek1 (n=zan@cpe-92-37-75-161.dynamic.amis.net)
  376. # [15:17] <smaug> Hixie: a build just before that change has the same "feature" as IE and gecko.
  377. # [15:19] * Quits: vvv (n=vvv@mediawiki/VasilievVV) ("KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: 3410, sources date: 20090703, built on: 2009/08/12 22:29:13 UTC http://www.kvirc.net/")
  378. # [15:22] * Joins: aroben (n=aroben@unaffiliated/aroben)
  379. # [15:26] * Quits: zdobersek (n=zan@cpe-92-37-66-108.dynamic.amis.net) (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  380. # [15:26] * lmorchard|away is now known as lmorchard
  381. # [15:27] * Quits: workmad3 (n=davidwor@ashleys2.mimas.ac.uk) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  382. # [15:27] <Philip`> Hmm, turns out the gcj version is half the speed as the plain java version, and uses about the same amount of memory
  383. # [15:28] <hsivonen> radically traditional compilation FTW!
  384. # [15:29] * Quits: zdobersek1 (n=zan@cpe-92-37-75-161.dynamic.amis.net) (pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  385. # [15:29] * Quits: pmuellr (n=pmuellr@rrcs-70-63-146-90.midsouth.biz.rr.com) (pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  386. # [15:29] * Quits: dimich (n=dimich@74.125.59.65) (pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  387. # [15:29] * Quits: pererik (n=pe@unaffiliated/pererik) (pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  388. # [15:29] * Quits: yusukes (n=yusukes@220.109.219.244) (pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  389. # [15:29] * Quits: syp (n=syp@lasigpc9.epfl.ch) (pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  390. # [15:29] * Joins: miketaylr (n=miketayl@38.117.156.163)
  391. # [15:29] <Philip`> gcj has much better startup time, though
  392. # [15:30] <Philip`> echo hello|HTML2XML takes about 0.9s with java, 0.2s with gcj
  393. # [15:31] <Philip`> (java catches up when tokenising the HTML5 spec)
  394. # [15:32] * Joins: pererik (n=pe@c-89-233-213-67.cust.bredband2.com)
  395. # [15:35] * Joins: dimich (n=dimich@74.125.59.73)
  396. # [15:36] <Philip`> (Also, ~60MB just to stream some HTML to XML seems silly in any case)
  397. # [15:36] * Joins: pmuellr (n=pmuellr@rrcs-70-63-146-90.midsouth.biz.rr.com)
  398. # [15:39] * Joins: BlurstOfTimes (n=blurstof@168.203.117.66)
  399. # [15:43] <Philip`> Dijkstra ought to have had a name that's easier to spell
  400. # [15:43] * Joins: zdobersek (n=zan@cpe-92-37-75-161.dynamic.amis.net)
  401. # [15:44] * Joins: yusukes (n=yusukes@220.109.219.244)
  402. # [15:44] <hsivonen> is there any difference between absent type or charset attribute on <script> or having them set to the empty string?
  403. # [15:46] <hsivonen> apparently no difference for type
  404. # [15:54] * hsivonen wishes he didn't have to search a space-separated list of tokens to discover stylesheet but not alternate stylesheet links
  405. # [15:55] <Philip`> (If anyone comes here and complains about the multipage spec, let them know I'll fix it later tonight)
  406. # [15:55] <Philip`> (Also, tell them it's all Hixie's fault)
  407. # [15:55] * Philip` goes away
  408. # [15:55] * Joins: syp (n=syp@lasigpc9.epfl.ch)
  409. # [15:57] <hsivonen> hmm. apparently the old parser only speculatively loads style sheets if the value of rel is exactly "stylesheet" in lower case
  410. # [15:57] <hsivonen> I guess I'll cut corners likewise
  411. # [16:02] <hsivonen> the worst that can happen is Hixie's sites loading a bit more slowly :-)
  412. # [16:03] * Joins: fishd_ (n=darin@72.14.224.1)
  413. # [16:05] <Philip`> http://philip.html5.org/data/link-rel-rev.txt
  414. # [16:05] <Philip`> Non-lowercase is quite common
  415. # [16:05] * Philip` goes away for real (almost)
  416. # [16:06] <hsivonen> Philip`: I made an ASCII-case-insensitive check
  417. # [16:07] * Quits: JoePeck (n=JoePeck@cpe-74-69-85-249.rochester.res.rr.com)
  418. # [16:07] * Joins: JoePeck (n=JoePeck@cpe-74-69-85-249.rochester.res.rr.com)
  419. # [16:09] * lmorchard is now known as lmorchard|away
  420. # [16:14] * lmorchard|away is now known as lmorchard
  421. # [16:17] <zcorpan_> <link rel="stylesheet.off" ...>
  422. # [16:17] <zcorpan_> <link rel="&#10;stylesheet" ...>
  423. # [16:17] * Parts: annevk2 (n=annevk@pat.se.opera.com)
  424. # [16:18] <zcorpan_> (just 1 out of 127249)
  425. # [16:19] * Joins: annevk2 (n=annevk@pat.se.opera.com)
  426. # [16:20] * Quits: maikmerten (n=merten@ls5dhcp196.cs.uni-dortmund.de) (Remote closed the connection)
  427. # [16:20] * Quits: fishd (n=darin@72.14.224.1) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  428. # [16:26] * Quits: dave_levin (n=dave_lev@c-98-203-247-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  429. # [16:31] * Joins: mlpug (n=mlpug@a88-115-164-40.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
  430. # [16:33] * Quits: fishd_ (n=darin@72.14.224.1) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  431. # [16:34] * Quits: pmuellr (n=pmuellr@rrcs-70-63-146-90.midsouth.biz.rr.com)
  432. # [16:39] * Joins: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  433. # [16:42] * Joins: Midler (n=midler@212.37.124.243)
  434. # [16:44] * Quits: svl (n=me@f050206094.adsl.alicedsl.de) ("And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.")
  435. # [16:48] * Quits: gunderwonder (n=gunderwo@garage.upstruct.com)
  436. # [16:56] * Quits: JoePeck (n=JoePeck@cpe-74-69-85-249.rochester.res.rr.com) (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
  437. # [16:56] * Joins: JoePeck (n=JoePeck@cpe-74-69-85-249.rochester.res.rr.com)
  438. # [16:58] * Joins: paulirish (n=paul_iri@12.33.239.250)
  439. # [17:00] * Quits: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  440. # [17:01] * Quits: Maurice (n=ano@a80-101-46-164.adsl.xs4all.nl) ("Disconnected...")
  441. # [17:06] * Quits: wakaba_ (n=wakaba_@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  442. # [17:08] * Quits: pesla (n=retep@procurios.xs4all.nl) ("( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.21 :: www.esnation.com )")
  443. # [17:10] * Quits: zcorpan_ (n=zcorpan@pat.se.opera.com)
  444. # [17:20] * Joins: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@nat/google/x-sodxvwrkeipnhzaf)
  445. # [17:21] * Joins: workmad3 (n=davidwor@ashleys2.mimas.ac.uk)
  446. # [17:22] * Joins: maikmerten (n=maikmert@Z8ba6.z.pppool.de)
  447. # [17:23] * paulirish is now known as paul_irish
  448. # [17:28] * Joins: dave_levin (n=dave_lev@74.125.59.73)
  449. # [17:33] * Joins: abarth (n=abarth@c-98-210-108-185.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  450. # [17:35] * Quits: mpt (n=mpt@canonical/mpt) (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  451. # [17:36] * Joins: yatil (n=Adium@78.104.102.186)
  452. # [17:36] * Parts: zdobersek (n=zan@cpe-92-37-75-161.dynamic.amis.net)
  453. # [17:36] * Joins: mpt (n=mpt@canonical/mpt)
  454. # [17:36] * Joins: zdobersek (n=zan@cpe-92-37-75-161.dynamic.amis.net)
  455. # [17:37] * Joins: explicit_ (i=bill@cpc1-ely05-2-0-cust456.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com)
  456. # [17:38] * Joins: pmuellr (n=pmuellr@user-0ce2gjn.cable.mindspring.com)
  457. # [17:41] * Joins: mcdave (n=mcdave@cm-83-97-164-192.telecable.es)
  458. # [17:46] * Quits: JoePeck (n=JoePeck@cpe-74-69-85-249.rochester.res.rr.com)
  459. # [17:46] * Joins: fishd_ (n=darin@nat/google/x-exwxluottabseivu)
  460. # [17:54] * Joins: Maurice (i=copyman@5ED548D4.cable.ziggo.nl)
  461. # [17:54] * Quits: workmad3 (n=davidwor@ashleys2.mimas.ac.uk)
  462. # [17:59] * Joins: borismus (n=borismus@CMU-348674.WV.CC.CMU.EDU)
  463. # [17:59] <hsivonen> how. MIME types are being registered for MathML
  464. # [17:59] <hsivonen> only a decade late
  465. # [17:59] <hsivonen> MIME types FTW!
  466. # [18:00] * Joins: fsalgo_ (n=fsalgo@122.182.0.38)
  467. # [18:00] * erlehmann_ is now known as erlehmann
  468. # [18:01] * Quits: mcdave (n=mcdave@cm-83-97-164-192.telecable.es)
  469. # [18:02] * Quits: drunknbass (n=drunknba@76.89.129.186) (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
  470. # [18:03] * Quits: fsalgo (n=fsalgo@59.162.86.164) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  471. # [18:03] * fsalgo_ is now known as fsalgo
  472. # [18:05] * Joins: drunknbass (n=drunknba@76.89.129.186)
  473. # [18:07] * Joins: djsiegel2 (n=david@98.240.187.46)
  474. # [18:08] * Quits: djsiegel2 (n=david@98.240.187.46) (Client Quit)
  475. # [18:10] * Quits: borismus (n=borismus@CMU-348674.WV.CC.CMU.EDU)
  476. # [18:10] * Joins: ap (n=ap@17.246.19.174)
  477. # [18:11] * Quits: pmuellr (n=pmuellr@user-0ce2gjn.cable.mindspring.com)
  478. # [18:15] * Joins: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@EM114-48-175-65.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  479. # [18:19] * Quits: TabAtkins (n=chatzill@70-139-15-246.lightspeed.rsbgtx.sbcglobal.net) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  480. # [18:24] * Joins: djsiegel1 (n=david@98.240.187.46)
  481. # [18:24] * Quits: djsiegel1 (n=david@98.240.187.46) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  482. # [18:26] * Joins: GPHemsley (n=GPHemsle@pdpc/supporter/student/GPHemsley)
  483. # [18:30] * Joins: borismus (n=borismus@CMU-348674.WV.CC.CMU.EDU)
  484. # [18:37] * Joins: smaug_ (n=chatzill@cs181150024.pp.htv.fi)
  485. # [18:38] * Joins: Dashimon (i=Dashiva@m223j.studby.ntnu.no)
  486. # [18:39] * Quits: Dashiva (i=Dashiva@wikia/Dashiva) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  487. # [18:39] * Dashimon is now known as Dashiva
  488. # [18:40] * Joins: lazni (n=lazni@118.71.22.68)
  489. # [18:40] * Quits: weinig (n=weinig@c-67-180-35-124.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  490. # [18:41] * Quits: smaug (n=chatzill@cs181150024.pp.htv.fi) (Remote closed the connection)
  491. # [18:41] * smaug_ is now known as smaug
  492. # [18:41] * Quits: Phae (n=phaeness@gateb.mh.bbc.co.uk)
  493. # [18:52] * Joins: ChrisWilson (n=cwilso@nat/microsoft/x-rbfsxzjkhznsbpeb)
  494. # [18:52] * Quits: fishd_ (n=darin@nat/google/x-exwxluottabseivu) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  495. # [18:56] * Joins: gratz|home (n=gratz@cpc3-brig15-2-0-cust237.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com)
  496. # [18:56] * Quits: mpt (n=mpt@canonical/mpt) (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  497. # [19:02] * Quits: remysharp (n=remyshar@vinov2.gotadsl.co.uk) ("Gotta shoot - peeyaow!")
  498. # [19:04] * Joins: fishd_ (n=darin@nat/google/x-nhschzulpofqkzge)
  499. # [19:07] * Quits: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@dhcp-0059871802-99-6d.client.student.harvard.edu) ("Leaving...")
  500. # [19:10] * Joins: sicking (n=chatzill@32.159.9.117)
  501. # [19:12] * Quits: borismus (n=borismus@CMU-348674.WV.CC.CMU.EDU)
  502. # [19:13] * Joins: borismus (n=borismus@CMU-348674.WV.CC.CMU.EDU)
  503. # [19:13] * Quits: borismus (n=borismus@CMU-348674.WV.CC.CMU.EDU) (Client Quit)
  504. # [19:15] * Joins: weinig (n=weinig@17.246.17.253)
  505. # [19:16] * Quits: michaelforrest (n=michaelf@91.189.88.12)
  506. # [19:21] * Quits: mat_t (n=mattomas@91.189.88.12) (Remote closed the connection)
  507. # [19:26] * Joins: arun__ (n=arun@nat/mozilla/x-rrvmyyixupypadho)
  508. # [19:29] * Quits: weinig (n=weinig@17.246.17.253)
  509. # [19:30] * Joins: TabAtkins (n=chatzill@70-139-15-246.lightspeed.rsbgtx.sbcglobal.net)
  510. # [19:35] * Joins: weinig (n=weinig@17.246.17.253)
  511. # [19:35] * Quits: lazni (n=lazni@118.71.22.68) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  512. # [19:40] * Joins: dbaron (n=dbaron@nat/mozilla/x-yxlatzwbsnorlkay)
  513. # [19:42] * Joins: borismus (n=borismus@CMU-348674.WV.CC.CMU.EDU)
  514. # [19:44] * Quits: fsalgo (n=fsalgo@122.182.0.38)
  515. # [19:53] * Quits: sicking (n=chatzill@32.159.9.117) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  516. # [19:57] * Quits: smaug (n=chatzill@cs181150024.pp.htv.fi) ("ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.7a1pre/20090929162016]")
  517. # [19:57] * Joins: smaug (n=chatzill@cs181150024.pp.htv.fi)
  518. # [20:02] * Joins: sicking (n=chatzill@32.159.9.117)
  519. # [20:10] * Quits: abarth (n=abarth@c-98-210-108-185.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  520. # [20:11] * Quits: sicking (n=chatzill@32.159.9.117) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  521. # [20:12] * Joins: sicking (n=chatzill@32.159.9.117)
  522. # [20:15] * Quits: explicit_ (i=bill@cpc1-ely05-2-0-cust456.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com) (Client Quit)
  523. # [20:19] * Quits: aboodman_ (n=aboodman@72.14.229.81) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  524. # [20:20] * Joins: aboodman_ (n=aboodman@72.14.229.81)
  525. # [20:23] * Joins: mpt (n=mpt@canonical/mpt)
  526. # [20:24] * Quits: borismus (n=borismus@CMU-348674.WV.CC.CMU.EDU)
  527. # [20:30] * Joins: cying (n=cying@70.90.171.153)
  528. # [20:31] * Quits: sicking (n=chatzill@32.159.9.117) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  529. # [20:32] * Joins: fsalgo (n=fsalgo@115.184.109.101)
  530. # [20:34] * Joins: mpilgrim (n=mark@adsl-150-136-67.rmo.bellsouth.net)
  531. # [20:39] * Joins: webben1 (n=benh@213-152-32-107.dsl.eclipse.net.uk)
  532. # [20:40] * Quits: mpt (n=mpt@canonical/mpt) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  533. # [20:41] * Joins: djsiegel1 (n=david@98.240.187.46)
  534. # [20:41] * aroben is now known as aroben|lunch
  535. # [20:41] * Quits: mitnavn (n=mitnavn@unaffiliated/mitnavn)
  536. # [20:44] * Quits: maikmerten (n=maikmert@Z8ba6.z.pppool.de) (Remote closed the connection)
  537. # [20:46] * Quits: webben (n=benh@dip5-fw.corp.ukl.yahoo.com) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  538. # [20:48] * Quits: webben1 (n=benh@213-152-32-107.dsl.eclipse.net.uk) (Remote closed the connection)
  539. # [20:51] * Quits: jennb (n=jennb@74.125.59.73) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  540. # [20:54] * Quits: fishd_ (n=darin@nat/google/x-nhschzulpofqkzge) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  541. # [21:00] <AryehGregor> "You are arguing for imposing one way of doing things. Ugh."
  542. # [21:00] <AryehGregor> That's a great quote from someone posting on a standards list.
  543. # [21:01] * Joins: mitnavn (n=mitnavn@unaffiliated/mitnavn)
  544. # [21:05] <AryehGregor> Is this broken? http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/
  545. # [21:05] <AryehGregor> I'm getting an index page.
  546. # [21:08] * Quits: cying (n=cying@70.90.171.153) (pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  547. # [21:08] * Quits: paul_irish (n=paul_iri@12.33.239.250) (pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  548. # [21:08] * Quits: pererik (n=pe@unaffiliated/pererik) (pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  549. # [21:08] * Quits: Creap (n=Creap@vemod.brg.sgsnet.se) (pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  550. # [21:08] * Quits: Amorphous (i=jan@unaffiliated/amorphous) (pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  551. # [21:08] * Quits: yutak_ (n=yutak@220.109.219.244) (pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  552. # [21:08] * Quits: Yudai (n=Yudai@p6ea250.kngwnt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp) (pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  553. # [21:08] * Quits: gratz|home (n=gratz@cpc3-brig15-2-0-cust237.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com) (pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  554. # [21:08] * Quits: Maurice (i=copyman@5ED548D4.cable.ziggo.nl) (pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  555. # [21:08] * Quits: annevk2 (n=annevk@pat.se.opera.com) (pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  556. # [21:08] * Quits: myakura (n=myakura@p1193-ipbf5203marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  557. # [21:08] * Quits: archtech (n=sv@83.228.56.37) (pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  558. # [21:08] * Quits: daedb (n=daed@h11n1fls34o986.telia.com) (pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  559. # [21:08] * Quits: gavin (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  560. # [21:08] * Quits: bobs (n=oeskola@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi) (pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  561. # [21:10] * Quits: zdobersek (n=zan@cpe-92-37-75-161.dynamic.amis.net) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  562. # [21:10] * Joins: cying (n=cying@70.90.171.153)
  563. # [21:10] * Joins: gratz|home (n=gratz@cpc3-brig15-2-0-cust237.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com)
  564. # [21:10] * Joins: Maurice (i=copyman@5ED548D4.cable.ziggo.nl)
  565. # [21:10] * Joins: paul_irish (n=paul_iri@12.33.239.250)
  566. # [21:10] * Joins: annevk2 (n=annevk@pat.se.opera.com)
  567. # [21:10] * Joins: pererik (n=pe@unaffiliated/pererik)
  568. # [21:10] * Joins: myakura (n=myakura@p1193-ipbf5203marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  569. # [21:10] * Joins: Creap (n=Creap@vemod.brg.sgsnet.se)
  570. # [21:10] * Joins: archtech (n=sv@83.228.56.37)
  571. # [21:10] * Joins: Amorphous (i=jan@unaffiliated/amorphous)
  572. # [21:10] * Joins: daedb (n=daed@h11n1fls34o986.telia.com)
  573. # [21:10] * Joins: bobs (n=oeskola@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi)
  574. # [21:10] * Joins: Yudai (n=Yudai@p6ea250.kngwnt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp)
  575. # [21:10] * Joins: gavin (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin)
  576. # [21:10] * Joins: yutak_ (n=yutak@220.109.219.244)
  577. # [21:11] * Quits: paul_irish (n=paul_iri@12.33.239.250)
  578. # [21:11] * Quits: bobs (n=oeskola@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi) (pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  579. # [21:11] * Quits: gratz|home (n=gratz@cpc3-brig15-2-0-cust237.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com) (pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  580. # [21:11] * Quits: gavin (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  581. # [21:11] * Quits: daedb (n=daed@h11n1fls34o986.telia.com) (pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  582. # [21:11] * Quits: annevk2 (n=annevk@pat.se.opera.com) (pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  583. # [21:11] * Quits: archtech (n=sv@83.228.56.37) (pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  584. # [21:11] * Quits: Maurice (i=copyman@5ED548D4.cable.ziggo.nl) (pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  585. # [21:11] * Quits: myakura (n=myakura@p1193-ipbf5203marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  586. # [21:11] * Joins: bobs_ (n=oeskola@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi)
  587. # [21:11] * Joins: daedb| (n=daed@h11n1fls34o986.telia.com)
  588. # [21:11] * Joins: gavin (n=gavin@people.mozilla.com)
  589. # [21:11] * Joins: archtech (n=sv@83.228.56.37)
  590. # [21:12] * Joins: myakura (n=myakura@p1193-ipbf5203marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  591. # [21:12] * Joins: Maurice (i=copyman@5ED548D4.cable.ziggo.nl)
  592. # [21:12] * Joins: sicking (n=chatzill@c-69-181-197-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  593. # [21:13] * Joins: paul_irish (n=paul_iri@12.33.239.250)
  594. # [21:15] * Joins: gratz|home (n=gratz@cpc3-brig15-2-0-cust237.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com)
  595. # [21:20] * daedb| is now known as daedb
  596. # [21:25] <Philip`> AryehGregor: Yes, it's broken
  597. # [21:26] <Philip`> AryehGregor: Blame Hixie
  598. # [21:26] <Philip`> He's doing crazy things like trying to use HTML5 in HTML5
  599. # [21:26] * AryehGregor dutifully blames Hixie
  600. # [21:27] * aroben|lunch is now known as aroben
  601. # [21:29] * Quits: GPHemsley (n=GPHemsle@pdpc/supporter/student/GPHemsley) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  602. # [21:34] * Quits: weinig (n=weinig@17.246.17.253)
  603. # [21:35] * Joins: weinig (n=weinig@17.246.17.253)
  604. # [21:40] * Joins: fsalgo_ (n=fsalgo@115.184.113.2)
  605. # [21:41] * Joins: borismus (n=borismus@CMU-348674.WV.CC.CMU.EDU)
  606. # [21:41] * Quits: borismus (n=borismus@CMU-348674.WV.CC.CMU.EDU) (Client Quit)
  607. # [21:42] * Joins: fsalgo__ (n=fsalgo@115.184.51.115)
  608. # [21:44] * Joins: zdobersek (n=zan@cpe-92-37-75-161.dynamic.amis.net)
  609. # [21:54] * Quits: fsalgo (n=fsalgo@115.184.109.101) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  610. # [21:58] * Quits: arun__ (n=arun@nat/mozilla/x-rrvmyyixupypadho) ("Ruh-roh!")
  611. # [22:00] * Joins: cying_ (n=cying@70.90.171.153)
  612. # [22:02] * Quits: fsalgo_ (n=fsalgo@115.184.113.2) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  613. # [22:02] * Joins: webben (n=benh@213-152-32-107.dsl.eclipse.net.uk)
  614. # [22:03] * Joins: arun__ (n=arun@nat/mozilla/x-dsrdnedyomhlvyjg)
  615. # [22:09] * Quits: fsalgo__ (n=fsalgo@115.184.51.115) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  616. # [22:12] * Quits: mpilgrim (n=mark@adsl-150-136-67.rmo.bellsouth.net) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  617. # [22:16] * Quits: cying (n=cying@70.90.171.153) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  618. # [22:16] * cying_ is now known as cying
  619. # [22:22] * Quits: djsiegel1 (n=david@98.240.187.46) ("Leaving.")
  620. # [22:23] * Joins: djsiegel2 (n=david@98.240.187.46)
  621. # [22:28] * Quits: mlpug (n=mlpug@a88-115-164-40.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Remote closed the connection)
  622. # [22:32] * Quits: djsiegel2 (n=david@98.240.187.46) ("Leaving.")
  623. # [22:37] * Joins: SamerZ (n=SamerZ@CPE00222d5410b8-CM00222d5410b5.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  624. # [22:40] * Quits: ROBOd (n=robod@89.122.216.38) ("http://www.robodesign.ro")
  625. # [22:47] * Joins: ttepasse (n=ttepas--@p5B014A5A.dip.t-dialin.net)
  626. # [22:50] * Quits: cying (n=cying@70.90.171.153)
  627. # [23:00] * Quits: dimich (n=dimich@74.125.59.73) (Remote closed the connection)
  628. # [23:00] * Quits: jorlow (n=jorlow@nat/google/x-cyrezuqmfrdtftuz) (Remote closed the connection)
  629. # [23:00] * Quits: dave_levin (n=dave_lev@74.125.59.73) (Remote closed the connection)
  630. # [23:00] * Joins: jorlow (n=jorlow@nat/google/x-gcdknsvedkhcbgrm)
  631. # [23:01] * Quits: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@nat/google/x-sodxvwrkeipnhzaf) (Remote closed the connection)
  632. # [23:02] * Quits: aboodman_ (n=aboodman@72.14.229.81) (Remote closed the connection)
  633. # [23:02] * Joins: dimich (n=dimich@74.125.59.65)
  634. # [23:03] * Joins: cying (n=cying@70.90.171.153)
  635. # [23:03] * Joins: dave_levin (n=dave_lev@74.125.59.73)
  636. # [23:04] * Quits: cying (n=cying@70.90.171.153) (Remote closed the connection)
  637. # [23:04] * Joins: cying (n=cying@70.90.171.153)
  638. # [23:04] * Joins: borismus (n=borismus@CMU-348674.WV.CC.CMU.EDU)
  639. # [23:07] * Quits: miketaylr (n=miketayl@38.117.156.163)
  640. # [23:08] * Quits: shepazu (n=schepers@203.52.200.130) (Remote closed the connection)
  641. # [23:08] * Joins: gsnedders_ (n=gsnedder@c83-252-232-119.bredband.comhem.se)
  642. # [23:08] <Philip`> Oh, I'm stupid
  643. # [23:09] <Philip`> The gcj version of the parser had no optimisation enabled
  644. # [23:09] <Philip`> so it ended up taking twice as long to parse the spec as the java version
  645. # [23:09] <Philip`> If I compile with -O1, then the gcj parser takes about 40% of the time it used to
  646. # [23:10] <Philip`> hsivonen: ^ gcj isn't so useless after all :-)
  647. # [23:11] <Philip`> Only problem is it takes ~0.5GB RAM to compile, and my server barely has that much, and my desktop machine is 64-bit and can't make 32-bit binaries with gcj, and the server is 32-bit, so I can't actually run it on there :-/
  648. # [23:11] * Joins: djsiegel (n=david@98.240.187.46)
  649. # [23:11] * Quits: djsiegel (n=david@98.240.187.46) (Client Quit)
  650. # [23:11] * Joins: djsiegel1 (n=david@98.240.187.46)
  651. # [23:13] * Joins: shepazu (n=schepers@203.52.200.130)
  652. # [23:20] * Quits: BlurstOfTimes (n=blurstof@168.203.117.66) ("Leaving...")
  653. # [23:21] * Joins: sa|mu|el (n=samuel@c-68-33-250-70.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
  654. # [23:22] * Parts: sa|mu|el (n=samuel@c-68-33-250-70.hsd1.md.comcast.net) ("Leaving")
  655. # [23:23] <Dashiva> Is there a word for "quick to take offense"?
  656. # [23:23] * Quits: mitnavn (n=mitnavn@unaffiliated/mitnavn)
  657. # [23:24] <gratz|home> sensitive?
  658. # [23:24] <gratz|home> lol
  659. # [23:26] * Quits: zdobersek (n=zan@cpe-92-37-75-161.dynamic.amis.net) ("Leaving.")
  660. # [23:31] <AryehGregor> Quick-tempered? Touchy?
  661. # [23:44] * Quits: Maurice (i=copyman@5ED548D4.cable.ziggo.nl)
  662. # [23:49] * Quits: paul_irish (n=paul_iri@12.33.239.250)
  663. # [23:50] * Joins: fishd_ (n=darin@nat/google/x-xhpubxprlgyxdxpt)
  664. # [23:50] * fishd_ is now known as fishd
  665. # [23:52] * Joins: Super-Dot (n=Super-Do@adsl-75-61-85-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
  666. # [23:55] * Quits: aroben (n=aroben@unaffiliated/aroben) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  667. # [23:56] <deltab> Dashiva: thin-skinned
  668. # Session Close: Sat Oct 10 00:00:00 2009

The end :)