/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2009-10-29 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Thu Oct 29 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:04] * Joins: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@EM114-48-138-101.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  4. # [00:07] * Quits: yoshu (n=josh@174-18-207-206.tcso.qwest.net)
  5. # [00:08] * Quits: nattokirai (n=nattokir@201.103.117.246) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  6. # [00:09] * Joins: weinig (n=weinig@17.246.17.253)
  7. # [00:14] * Joins: paul_iri_ (n=paul_iri@32.143.243.177)
  8. # [00:19] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@17.246.16.138) (Remote closed the connection)
  9. # [00:20] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@nat/apple/session)
  10. # [00:21] * Quits: paul_irish (n=paul_iri@12.182.97.2) (Nick collision from services.)
  11. # [00:21] * paul_iri_ is now known as paul_irish
  12. # [00:21] * Joins: nattokirai (n=nattokir@201.103.117.246)
  13. # [00:24] * Joins: nessy (n=Adium@124-168-142-226.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  14. # [00:24] * Joins: yoshu (n=josh@174-18-207-206.tcso.qwest.net)
  15. # [00:26] * Quits: krijn (n=krijnhoe@g179009.upc-g.chello.nl)
  16. # [00:26] * Quits: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@nat/google/x-egfjtugnortsyaiz)
  17. # [00:30] * Joins: ojan (n=ojan@72.14.229.81)
  18. # [00:40] * Joins: yutak_home (n=kee@61.198.214.157)
  19. # [00:49] * Quits: fishd__ (n=darin@nat/google/x-rqkagvtibiqyftif) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  20. # [00:50] * Quits: mat_t (n=mattomas@80-225-9-175.dynamic.dial.as9105.com) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  21. # [00:52] * Quits: Midler (n=midler@212.37.124.243) ("Leaving.")
  22. # [00:52] * Quits: nattokirai (n=nattokir@201.103.117.246) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  23. # [01:16] * Joins: GarethAdams|Home (n=GarethAd@pdpc/supporter/active/GarethAdams)
  24. # [01:17] * Joins: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  25. # [01:18] * Quits: kangax (n=kangax@pr1fw01.ithaka.org)
  26. # [01:28] * Quits: yutak_home (n=kee@61.198.214.157) ("Ex-Chat")
  27. # [01:31] <ment> correct me if i'm wrong, but tokenizer in data state with string '</* xxx>' on input returns a comment token with text '* xxx' ?
  28. # [01:31] * Parts: Pilate (n=wotgoes@24.205.206.203)
  29. # [01:33] * Joins: wakaba_ (n=wakaba_@122.221.184.68)
  30. # [01:44] * Joins: JoePeck (n=JoePeck@jpecoraro.rit.edu)
  31. # [01:51] * Quits: ap (n=ap@17.246.19.174)
  32. # [01:54] * Quits: dave_levin (n=dave_lev@74.125.59.73)
  33. # [01:57] * Joins: othermaciej_ (n=mjs@17.246.16.138)
  34. # [01:59] * Quits: dbaron (n=dbaron@nat/mozilla/x-dlvwxtjgrfvzsknh) ("8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.")
  35. # [01:59] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@nat/apple/x-ytxjeasrluavjbbg) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  36. # [01:59] * othermaciej_ is now known as othermaciej
  37. # [02:00] <MikeSmith> ment: yeah, as far as I can see
  38. # [02:05] * Parts: ojan (n=ojan@72.14.229.81)
  39. # [02:07] * Quits: weinig (n=weinig@17.246.17.253)
  40. # [02:07] * Joins: mpilgrim (n=mark@rrcs-96-10-240-189.midsouth.biz.rr.com)
  41. # [02:19] * Joins: archtech (i=stanv@83.228.56.37)
  42. # [02:20] * Quits: JonathanNeal (n=Jonathan@76.79.114.213) ("Leaving")
  43. # [02:20] * Quits: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@EM114-48-138-101.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) ("Tomorrow to fresh woods, and pastures new.")
  44. # [02:23] <mpilgrim> krijnh: fixed the missing </ul>s, thanks
  45. # [02:31] * Quits: sylvaing (n=sylvaing@nat/microsoft/x-wpyvgwwkvjgbdejv) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  46. # [02:31] * Joins: sylvaing (n=sylvaing@70-1-105-51.pools.spcsdns.net)
  47. # [02:36] * Joins: dbaron (n=dbaron@c-98-234-51-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  48. # [02:48] * Quits: mitnavn_ (n=mitnavn@0x5552b452.adsl.cybercity.dk)
  49. # [02:50] * Quits: JoePeck (n=JoePeck@jpecoraro.rit.edu)
  50. # [02:54] * Joins: erlehmann_ (n=erlehman@82.113.121.14)
  51. # [02:54] * Joins: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@EM114-48-53-216.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  52. # [03:10] * Quits: erlehmann (n=erlehman@82.113.121.225) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  53. # [03:12] * Quits: Amorphous (i=jan@unaffiliated/amorphous) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  54. # [03:14] * Quits: borismus (n=borismus@CMU-348674.WV.CC.CMU.EDU)
  55. # [03:15] * Joins: Amorphous (i=jan@unaffiliated/amorphous)
  56. # [03:22] * Joins: JoePeck (n=JoePeck@cpe-74-69-85-249.rochester.res.rr.com)
  57. # [03:23] * Quits: erlehmann_ (n=erlehman@82.113.121.14) (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  58. # [03:24] * Quits: paul_irish (n=paul_iri@32.143.243.177) ("Leaving...")
  59. # [03:25] * Quits: jorlow_ (n=jorlow@nat/google/x-rnpgvafpvcvkxsso) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  60. # [03:28] * Joins: erlehmann_ (n=erlehman@82.113.121.14)
  61. # [03:29] * Joins: mitnavn (n=mitnavn@unaffiliated/mitnavn)
  62. # [03:29] * Joins: nattokirai (n=nattokir@201.103.104.5)
  63. # [03:31] * Quits: sylvaing (n=sylvaing@70-1-105-51.pools.spcsdns.net) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  64. # [03:37] * Quits: boogyman (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/boogyman) ("ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824101458]")
  65. # [03:40] * Quits: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  66. # [03:41] * Joins: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  67. # [03:48] * Quits: JoePeck (n=JoePeck@cpe-74-69-85-249.rochester.res.rr.com)
  68. # [03:49] * Joins: cedricv (n=cedric@112.199.152.227)
  69. # [03:53] * Quits: yoshu (n=josh@174-18-207-206.tcso.qwest.net) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  70. # [03:55] * Joins: yoshu (n=josh@174-18-207-206.tcso.qwest.net)
  71. # [04:04] * Joins: Lachy (n=Lachlan@5355732C.cable.casema.nl)
  72. # [04:09] * Joins: borismus (n=borismus@c-98-219-161-78.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
  73. # [04:21] * Quits: mitnavn (n=mitnavn@unaffiliated/mitnavn)
  74. # [04:22] * Quits: Lachy (n=Lachlan@5355732C.cable.casema.nl) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  75. # [04:26] * Joins: JoePeck (n=JoePeck@cpe-74-69-85-249.rochester.res.rr.com)
  76. # [04:27] * Quits: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@EM114-48-53-216.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  77. # [04:29] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@17.246.16.138)
  78. # [04:35] * Joins: KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@c-67-164-14-96.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  79. # [04:37] * Quits: Rik` (n=Rik`@chn38-1-78-231-168-7.fbx.proxad.net)
  80. # [04:40] * Joins: kangax (n=kangax@ool-182f8118.dyn.optonline.net)
  81. # [04:40] * Joins: fishd__ (n=darin@98.207.16.168)
  82. # [04:40] * Joins: erikvvold (n=erikvvol@S01060024012860e9.gv.shawcable.net)
  83. # [04:41] * Quits: archtech (i=stanv@83.228.56.37)
  84. # [04:41] * Joins: fishd_ (n=darin@216.239.45.130)
  85. # [04:41] * Quits: TabAtkins (n=chatzill@70-139-15-246.lightspeed.rsbgtx.sbcglobal.net) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  86. # [04:43] * Joins: ppattern1 (n=pattern_@58.8.128.13)
  87. # [04:46] * Quits: ppattern1 (n=pattern_@58.8.128.13) (Client Quit)
  88. # [04:49] * Quits: fishd__ (n=darin@98.207.16.168) (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
  89. # [04:50] * Quits: kangax (n=kangax@ool-182f8118.dyn.optonline.net)
  90. # [04:53] * Quits: erikvold (n=erikvvol@S01060024012860e9.gv.shawcable.net) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  91. # [04:54] * Quits: ppattern (n=pattern_@ppp-61-90-15-223.revip.asianet.co.th) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  92. # [04:58] * Quits: mpilgrim (n=mark@rrcs-96-10-240-189.midsouth.biz.rr.com) (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  93. # [05:00] * Joins: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@dhcp-246-113.mag.keio.ac.jp)
  94. # [05:03] * Quits: slightlyoff (n=slightly@72.14.229.81) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  95. # [05:23] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@69.181.42.237)
  96. # [05:27] * Joins: paul_irish (n=paul_iri@12.182.97.2)
  97. # [05:31] * aboodman3 is now known as aboodman
  98. # [05:35] * Quits: yoshu (n=josh@174-18-207-206.tcso.qwest.net) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  99. # [05:36] * Quits: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  100. # [05:37] * Joins: yoshu (n=josh@174-18-195-170.tcso.qwest.net)
  101. # [05:47] * Quits: jwalden (n=waldo@63.245.220.240) ("hm, late, night all")
  102. # [06:02] * Quits: borismus (n=borismus@c-98-219-161-78.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) ("http://www.borismus.com")
  103. # [06:13] * Joins: abii (n=macbook@171.66.87.167)
  104. # [06:19] * Quits: abii (n=macbook@171.66.87.167)
  105. # [06:26] * Quits: roc (n=roc@203.97.204.82)
  106. # [06:26] * lmorchard is now known as lmorchard|away
  107. # [06:27] * Joins: roc (n=roc@203.97.204.82)
  108. # [06:33] * Joins: abii (n=macbook@128.12.34.36)
  109. # [06:43] * Quits: fishd_ (n=darin@216.239.45.130) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  110. # [06:43] * Joins: fishd_ (n=darin@216.239.45.130)
  111. # [06:52] <MikeSmith> JoePeck: nice posting about the Web Inspector changes
  112. # [06:53] <JoePeck> MikeSmith: thanks!
  113. # [06:56] * Joins: weinig (n=weinig@c-67-180-35-124.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  114. # [06:58] * Quits: dbaron (n=dbaron@c-98-234-51-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) ("8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.")
  115. # [07:02] * Joins: aaron- (n=drunknba@76.173.195.145)
  116. # [07:12] <MikeSmith> JoePeck: for the Web Inspector wishlist: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24529
  117. # [07:13] * Quits: aaron- (n=drunknba@76.173.195.145) (Read error: 148 (No route to host))
  118. # [07:13] <JoePeck> MikeSmith: a man after my own heart. I'm going to be doing some work with application cache for my masters project. I'll have my eye on what I will want to display with Application Cache
  119. # [07:17] <MikeSmith> JoePeck: troubleshooting Application Cache problems seems to be a particular pain point for developers
  120. # [07:18] <MikeSmith> e.g., the message that David Kilzer cites there
  121. # [07:18] <othermaciej> definitely a place where tools can help
  122. # [07:18] <JoePeck> MikeSmith: yah, my first 30 minutes with it and I found a nasty issue with WebKit that nearly stopped me dead in my tracks => https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=29690
  123. # [07:18] * Quits: drunknbass (n=drunknba@cpe-76-173-195-145.socal.res.rr.com) (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  124. # [07:20] <MikeSmith> wow
  125. # [07:20] <MikeSmith> it doesn't seem like that could be per spec
  126. # [07:21] * Quits: roc (n=roc@203.97.204.82)
  127. # [07:21] * MikeSmith wonders what other browsers do for this case
  128. # [07:27] * Quits: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@dhcp-246-113.mag.keio.ac.jp) ("Tomorrow to fresh woods, and pastures new.")
  129. # [07:29] * Joins: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@tea12.w3.mag.keio.ac.jp)
  130. # [07:34] * Quits: yoshu (n=josh@174-18-195-170.tcso.qwest.net)
  131. # [07:35] * Joins: maikmerten (n=merten@ls5dhcp196.cs.uni-dortmund.de)
  132. # [07:35] * Joins: maikmerten_ (n=merten@ls5dhcp196.cs.uni-dortmund.de)
  133. # [07:42] * Joins: roc (n=roc@121.72.221.3)
  134. # [07:45] * Joins: dpranke (n=Adium@76.21.116.147)
  135. # [07:45] * Parts: dpranke (n=Adium@76.21.116.147)
  136. # [07:50] * Quits: weinig (n=weinig@c-67-180-35-124.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  137. # [07:50] * Joins: weinig (n=weinig@c-67-180-35-124.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  138. # [07:56] * Joins: Lachy (n=Lachlan@5355732C.cable.casema.nl)
  139. # [08:06] * Quits: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@tea12.w3.mag.keio.ac.jp) ("Tomorrow to fresh woods, and pastures new.")
  140. # [08:20] * Joins: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@EM114-48-77-142.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  141. # [08:21] * Quits: maikmerten (n=merten@ls5dhcp196.cs.uni-dortmund.de) ("Verlassend")
  142. # [08:29] * Joins: Lachy_ (n=Lachlan@5355732C.cable.casema.nl)
  143. # [08:30] * Joins: virtuelv (n=virtuelv@213.236.208.22)
  144. # [08:36] * Joins: krijn (n=krijnhoe@95.99.132.202)
  145. # [08:36] * Quits: Lachy (n=Lachlan@5355732C.cable.casema.nl) (Nick collision from services.)
  146. # [08:36] * Lachy_ is now known as Lachy
  147. # [08:37] * Joins: Maurice (n=ano@a80-101-46-164.adsl.xs4all.nl)
  148. # [08:37] * Quits: annevk (n=annevk@5355732C.cable.casema.nl) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  149. # [08:38] * Quits: Lachy (n=Lachlan@5355732C.cable.casema.nl) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  150. # [08:49] * Joins: eppy (n=fizzsubs@94-192-177-125.zone6.bethere.co.uk)
  151. # [08:50] * Parts: eppy (n=fizzsubs@94-192-177-125.zone6.bethere.co.uk)
  152. # [08:58] * Joins: jorlow_ (n=jorlow@c-67-180-199-19.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  153. # [08:58] * Quits: krijn (n=krijnhoe@95.99.132.202) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  154. # [09:01] * Joins: krijn (n=krijnhoe@188.89.173.210)
  155. # [09:07] * Quits: GPHemsley (n=GPHemsle@pdpc/supporter/student/GPHemsley) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  156. # [09:07] * Joins: archtech (i=stanv@83.228.56.37)
  157. # [09:09] * Quits: fishd_ (n=darin@216.239.45.130) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  158. # [09:20] * Joins: gsnedders (n=gsnedder@c83-252-232-152.bredband.comhem.se)
  159. # [09:22] * Joins: drunknbass (n=drunknba@cpe-76-173-195-145.socal.res.rr.com)
  160. # [09:23] * Joins: Rik` (n=Rik`@chn38-1-78-231-168-7.fbx.proxad.net)
  161. # [09:26] * Quits: krijn (n=krijnhoe@188.89.173.210)
  162. # [09:27] * Quits: jorlow_ (n=jorlow@c-67-180-199-19.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  163. # [09:36] * Joins: krijn (n=krijnhoe@141.93.23.140)
  164. # [10:06] * Quits: abii (n=macbook@128.12.34.36)
  165. # [10:16] * Quits: karlcow (n=karl@128.30.54.58) (Remote closed the connection)
  166. # [10:18] * Quits: drunknbass (n=drunknba@cpe-76-173-195-145.socal.res.rr.com) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  167. # [10:18] * Joins: drunknbass (n=drunknba@cpe-76-173-195-145.socal.res.rr.com)
  168. # [10:21] * Joins: mat_t (n=mattomas@91.189.88.12)
  169. # [10:23] * Quits: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@EM114-48-77-142.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  170. # [10:24] * Quits: gsnedders (n=gsnedder@c83-252-232-152.bredband.comhem.se) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  171. # [10:24] * Joins: gsnedders_ (n=gsnedder@c83-252-232-152.bredband.comhem.se)
  172. # [10:24] * gsnedders_ is now known as gsnedders
  173. # [10:35] * Quits: drunknbass (n=drunknba@cpe-76-173-195-145.socal.res.rr.com) (No route to host)
  174. # [10:38] * Joins: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@EM114-48-205-146.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  175. # [10:43] <MikeSmith> some useful stuff at http://miketaylr.com/
  176. # [10:43] <Dashiva> Hey Mike, do you know the reason Incubation Group is abbreviated XG?
  177. # [10:43] <MikeSmith> e.g., http://miketaylr.com/code/input-type-attr.html
  178. # [10:44] <MikeSmith> Dashiva: you already know the answer to that question, right?
  179. # [10:45] <Dashiva> No. Or at least I don't know it's the actual answer.
  180. # [10:45] <MikeSmith> the answer is that anything starting with X in is automatically good
  181. # [10:46] <MikeSmith> oh, and one other thing: W3C also already had something called Interest Group, which laid claim to "IG"
  182. # [10:46] <MikeSmith> one of those two answers is the real answer
  183. # [10:47] <MikeSmith> I suggested XXXG, but that got voted down
  184. # [10:49] <MikeSmith> that was my nickname in elementary school: Michael "triple-X O.G." Smith... but I shortened that nickname to to just "(tm)"
  185. # [10:49] <MikeSmith> so my (tm) actually stands for "triple-X O.G.", similar to the way XG stands for "Incubator Group"
  186. # [10:49] <Dashiva> I... see...
  187. # [10:50] <Dashiva> And what does O.G. stand for?
  188. # [10:52] * Joins: ROBOd (n=robod@89.122.216.38)
  189. # [10:52] <Philip`> Maybe it's XG because you put eggs in an incubator, and X sound like eggs
  190. # [10:53] * Joins: svl (n=me@g228083184.adsl.alicedsl.de)
  191. # [10:54] <MikeSmith> Dashiva: not sure what O.G. stands for -- all I know is that's just what people called me: What up, O.G.? or What up, thug|player|holmes etc.
  192. # [10:57] <MikeSmith> Philip`: you sharp, O.G. -- Despite my lame attempts at misdirection, you saw right into the true reason
  193. # [10:57] <MikeSmith> Philip`: when you can snatch the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you leave
  194. # [10:58] <MikeSmith> (and after you walk the rice paper without leaving any footprints, and lift the red-hot iron pot with your forearms to get branded with the Tiger and Dragon)
  195. # [10:59] <MikeSmith> 俺の話を聞け!
  196. # [10:59] <Dashiva> 俺は誰だと思ってる！
  197. # [10:59] <Philip`> That sounds like far too much effort
  198. # [11:00] * Philip` poisons MikeSmith's fish
  199. # [11:01] <jgraham> I think it is quite clear MikeSmith has had his fish poisoned already
  200. # [11:01] <Dashiva> The kanji for poison looks like 'mom' and 'vegetable'
  201. # [11:01] <MikeSmith> morning-glory seeds
  202. # [11:01] <Dashiva> The conclusion is left to the reader
  203. # [11:02] * Quits: gsnedders (n=gsnedder@c83-252-232-152.bredband.comhem.se) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  204. # [11:02] * Joins: gsnedders_ (n=gsnedder@c83-252-232-152.bredband.comhem.se)
  205. # [11:02] * gsnedders_ is now known as gsnedders
  206. # [11:04] <MikeSmith> alright all y'all gangster lean, time for me to go
  207. # [11:04] * Quits: gsnedders (n=gsnedder@c83-252-232-152.bredband.comhem.se) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  208. # [11:04] <MikeSmith> back on later
  209. # [11:04] * Joins: gsnedders (n=gsnedder@c83-252-232-152.bredband.comhem.se)
  210. # [11:04] * Quits: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@EM114-48-205-146.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) ("Tomorrow to fresh woods, and pastures new.")
  211. # [11:05] <erlehmann_> 博は、この衛星の言語です
  212. # [11:05] * Quits: gsnedders (n=gsnedder@c83-252-232-152.bredband.comhem.se) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  213. # [11:06] <Dashiva> That sounds like it came through Google
  214. # [11:06] <erlehmann_> :D
  215. # [11:06] <Dashiva> I'm not sure what the original was...
  216. # [11:07] <erlehmann_> Dashiva, i input "moon speak" into google and it put out 満月を話す, but that seems to mean "speaking moon"
  217. # [11:08] <Dashiva> So you tried with... "Dr. moon language" or something?
  218. # [11:09] <Philip`> 숍訊昱穿!
  219. # [11:11] <erlehmann_> Dashiva, "wtf is this moon language" なった
  220. # [11:12] <Dashiva> wtf, how does wtf become 博
  221. # [11:16] * jgraham is glad that hs left his sense of logic at the door
  222. # [11:16] * Joins: Phae (n=phaeness@gatea.mh.bbc.co.uk)
  223. # [11:19] * Joins: wakaba_0 (n=wakaba_@122.221.184.68)
  224. # [11:27] * Quits: wakaba_ (n=wakaba_@122.221.184.68) (Read error: 148 (No route to host))
  225. # [11:31] <erlehmann_> Dashiva, what does this glyph mean?
  226. # [11:32] * erlehmann_ is now known as erlehmann
  227. # [11:33] <Dashiva> http://www.df.lth.se/cgi-bin/j-e/euc/inline/dokanji?index=t&ivalue=476e&;
  228. # [11:33] <Dashiva> See for yourself :)
  229. # [11:33] <erlehmann> win acclaim !!
  230. # [11:37] <erlehmann> ٪)
  231. # [11:38] <Dashiva> http://cdn.okcimg.com/blog/mofo_mysteries/American-Geniuses.png
  232. # [11:38] <Dashiva> Percentage of people in each state who consider themselves geniuses
  233. # [11:39] <erlehmann> YOU ARE A SCARY MAN WHO IS SCARING ME IN THE FACE.
  234. # [11:41] <Philip`> ...according to an online dating site
  235. # [11:42] <Philip`> in which there is clearly no incentive to say things you don't believe
  236. # [11:44] * Joins: zcorpan_ (n=zcorpan@c83-252-193-59.bredband.comhem.se)
  237. # [11:44] <Dashiva> If you try building a relationship based on being a genius, I think you'll be busted pretty soon
  238. # [11:46] <nessy> you'd be surprised - some ppl are geniuses at faking
  239. # [11:46] <Dashiva> Are they really faking then?
  240. # [11:46] <nessy> depends on your pov :)
  241. # [11:51] * Joins: gsnedders (n=gsnedder@c83-252-232-152.bredband.comhem.se)
  242. # [11:56] * Joins: kristallpirat (n=kristall@c-base/crew/kristall)
  243. # [11:58] * Joins: karlcow (n=karl@128.30.54.58)
  244. # [12:23] * Joins: smaug_ (n=chatzill@82.181.150.24)
  245. # [12:27] * Joins: webben (n=benh@nat/yahoo/session)
  246. # [12:50] * Joins: othermaciej_ (n=mjs@c-69-181-42-237.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  247. # [12:59] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@69.181.42.237) (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
  248. # [12:59] * othermaciej_ is now known as othermaciej
  249. # [13:00] * Quits: gsnedders (n=gsnedder@c83-252-232-152.bredband.comhem.se)
  250. # [13:11] * Quits: roc (n=roc@121.72.221.3)
  251. # [13:12] <smaug_> is html5 somehow in "last call"?
  252. # [13:13] <smaug_> or what does the "Last call for comments" mean
  253. # [13:13] <hsivonen> smaug_: it's in LC at the WHATWG but not at the W3C
  254. # [13:13] <hsivonen> smaug_: it's not at all clear what it means
  255. # [13:14] <hsivonen> smaug_: other than making the point that Hixie kept the schedule he made in 2006 or so
  256. # [13:15] <smaug_> is the assumption that the draft will be in last call a year or so?
  257. # [13:15] <hsivonen> smaug_: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/TIMETABLE
  258. # [13:15] <smaug_> though, if it is not clear what "last call" means, that is not very relevant question
  259. # [13:15] <hsivonen> smaug_: more like 3 years, it seems
  260. # [13:16] <jgraham> hsivonen: It means that we briefly reached 0 outstanding, non-escalated, issues
  261. # [13:16] <Dashiva> In other words, if you have unadressed issues you need to speak up, because they aren't on the todo list
  262. # [13:16] <jgraham> which makes sense as a definition of last call
  263. # [13:17] * smaug_ needs to read the whole draft at some point
  264. # [13:18] <smaug_> currently it is still in a state that (almost) whenever one implements something, problems are found also in the spec
  265. # [13:18] <smaug_> but that is ok
  266. # [13:18] <jgraham> Right, that is more or less expected I think
  267. # [13:18] <smaug_> since it is just a draft
  268. # [13:19] <Dashiva> LC is for getting the theoretical issues in place, CR for the real problems :)
  269. # [13:20] <jgraham> Don't most groups have like a three week LC period?
  270. # [13:20] <jgraham> (supposedly)
  271. # [13:20] <smaug_> but 2-3 years should be enough for reading the draft. Unless it grows up exponentially.
  272. # [13:20] <Dashiva> jgraham: Repeatedly
  273. # [13:21] <hsivonen> It seems to me that the main point of the WHATWG LC is that it's the HTML WG chairs who are letting the schedule slip--not the editor
  274. # [13:21] <Dashiva> Not sure what the average number of iterations is, but only a single LC is rare from what I've heard
  275. # [13:21] <jgraham> smaug_: At this point I would expect the size to remain basically stable
  276. # [13:23] <Dashiva> Barring sections being split out into separate specs
  277. # [13:25] <jgraham> hsivonen: Arguably that is the point of giving it a name like "last call". But the fact is that Hixie did stick to his schedule. Which is pretty impressive really
  278. # [13:26] <Dashiva> I wonder how much overtime he did towards the end :)
  279. # [13:26] <jgraham> and it was a state-triggered status change not a date-triggered change
  280. # [13:26] <hsivonen> jgraham: yeah, Hixie sticking to his schedule is impressive
  281. # [13:26] <erlehmann> i'll look forward to 2022 then \o/
  282. # [13:27] * Quits: karlushi (n=karlushi@fw.vdl2.ca) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  283. # [13:27] <Dashiva> Why, are you a test suite fanatic? :)
  284. # [13:28] * Joins: karlushi (n=karlushi@fw.vdl2.ca)
  285. # [13:28] <jgraham> Dashiva: I wonder how much overtime he would be owed if he was paid extra for time in excess of 40 hours/week as per standard (not contract-changed) Swedish law
  286. # [13:29] * Quits: karlushi (n=karlushi@fw.vdl2.ca) (Client Quit)
  287. # [13:30] <Dashiva> He probably has a salary
  288. # [13:30] <jgraham> (or however it works, I don't really understand it, but for the sake of argument lets assume he was supposed to do 40 hours/week Mon-Fri and got overtime for unsociable hours like weekends and excess work)
  289. # [13:30] <jgraham> Dashiva: Yeah, I'm sure he does :) This is purely hypothetical :)
  290. # [13:33] * Joins: pmuellr (n=pmuellr@nat/ibm/x-skiaaturvlwbbfwt)
  291. # [13:33] * Joins: karlushi (n=karlushi@fw.vdl2.ca)
  292. # [13:37] * Quits: paul_irish (n=paul_iri@12.182.97.2) ("Leaving...")
  293. # [13:38] * Quits: nattokirai (n=nattokir@201.103.104.5)
  294. # [13:38] * Quits: nessy (n=Adium@124-168-142-226.dyn.iinet.net.au) ("Leaving.")
  295. # [13:39] * Quits: archtech (i=stanv@83.228.56.37)
  296. # [13:39] * Joins: mitnavn (n=mitnavn@unaffiliated/mitnavn)
  297. # [13:41] * Joins: nessy (n=Adium@124-168-142-226.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  298. # [13:42] * Joins: archtech (i=stanv@83.228.56.37)
  299. # [13:50] * Quits: wakaba_0 (n=wakaba_@122.221.184.68) (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
  300. # [13:52] * Joins: TabAtkins (n=chatzill@70-139-15-246.lightspeed.rsbgtx.sbcglobal.net)
  301. # [13:55] <zcorpan_> going to file:/// gives me an xml parse error in firefox :-(
  302. # [13:56] <jgraham> zcorpan_: Well you should make sure that your root directory is well formed then :)
  303. # [13:57] <zcorpan_> <td sortable-data="2.zip">
  304. # [13:58] <zcorpan_> where the funny character is a U+0003
  305. # [13:59] * Quits: mpt (n=mpt@canonical/mpt) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  306. # [13:59] <hsivonen> zcorpan_: XML FTW!
  307. # [13:59] <hsivonen> zcorpan_: FWIW, having the directory listings be XHTML is also a problem with FTP
  308. # [14:00] <hsivonen> zcorpan_: since the XHTML code path doesn't allow manual charset override or something along those lines
  309. # [14:00] * Joins: mpt (n=mpt@canonical/mpt)
  310. # [14:01] <zcorpan_> wonder where that zip file came from
  311. # [14:01] * zcorpan_ hopes it was harmless to remove it
  312. # [14:02] * jgraham reproduces problem
  313. # [14:03] <jgraham> I guess we can add whoever is responsible for that page to the bozo list :)
  314. # [14:04] <zcorpan_> we have a bozo list?
  315. # [14:04] <zcorpan_> isn't it easier to assume that everyone is a bozo until proven otherwise?
  316. # [14:05] * Joins: wakaba_ (n=wakaba_@98.225.100.220.dy.bbexcite.jp)
  317. # [14:05] <hsivonen> I bet the person who wrote the directory list generation code wrote it for text/html and someone else made it application/xhtml+xml later.
  318. # [14:05] <jgraham> zcorpan_: That is probably more efficient, yes
  319. # [14:06] * jgraham assumes someone will file a bug
  320. # [14:06] * Quits: maikmerten_ (n=merten@ls5dhcp196.cs.uni-dortmund.de) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  321. # [14:15] * Quits: mitnavn (n=mitnavn@unaffiliated/mitnavn) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  322. # [14:15] * Joins: Hish (n=chatzill@p57B7F367.dip.t-dialin.net)
  323. # [14:25] <Philip`> zcorpan_: It's impossible to prove that someone is not a bozo
  324. # [14:25] <Philip`> You can only demonstrate the positive
  325. # [14:25] <Philip`> The only way to not be a bozo is to not use XML :-)
  326. # [14:26] <jgraham> Philip`: Maybe that was what tim was getting at
  327. # [14:28] * jgraham suggests t-shirts reading "XML is a strange game. The only winning move is to not play"
  328. # [14:28] <gsnedders|work> jgraham: That string is really too long for a t-shirt
  329. # [14:28] <Philip`> Get a bigger t-shirt
  330. # [14:28] * gsnedders|work would rather go for: "XML: FAIL"
  331. # [14:29] <gsnedders|work> (in red)
  332. # [14:29] <Philip`> (on light yellow)
  333. # [14:30] * Joins: michaelforrest (n=michaelf@91.189.88.12)
  334. # [14:30] * gsnedders|work is tempted to get that
  335. # [14:30] <jgraham> gsnedders|work:It is shorter than http://store.xkcd.com/xkcd/#LinuxCheatShirt
  336. # [14:31] <hsivonen> the problem with t-shirts that make statements is that most of the time, it's too cold to wear only a t-shirt without covering the message
  337. # [14:31] <hsivonen> there should be woolly sweaters with messages on them
  338. # [14:31] <gsnedders|work> hsivonen: goto SPAIN
  339. # [14:33] <AryehGregor> Dashiva, why does that map color-code low percentages as red and high as green? High percentages would seem to be worse.
  340. # [14:34] <Philip`> AryehGregor: High is better, because it indicates the state is more geniuser
  341. # [14:34] * lmorchard|away is now known as lmorchard
  342. # [14:35] * Quits: virtuelv (n=virtuelv@213.236.208.22) (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
  343. # [14:35] <TabAtkins> hsivonen: Yeah, move somewhere hot. We've done a barbecue during Xmas the past two years.
  344. # [14:36] <TabAtkins> Everyone in shorts and tshirts, enjoying a cool 75F afternoon on the patio.
  345. # [14:36] <AryehGregor> hsivonen, where do you live? You can get by with just a T-shirt here for at least half the year.
  346. # [14:37] <AryehGregor> Philip`, since the correct figure is probably less than 1% by any reasonable definition, I'd say that a lower number is indicative of marginally more sanity.
  347. # [14:37] <AryehGregor> Kind of like how what, 90 or 95% of people consider themselves to be more intelligent than the median person?
  348. # [14:37] <erlehmann> gsnedders|work, you surely meant <xml:fail/>
  349. # [14:38] <gsnedders|work> erlehmann: But that's using someone else's namespace!
  350. # [14:38] <erlehmann> hsivonen, that is so true. i was wearing a mozille shirt yesterday. and a pullover. and a jacket.
  351. # [14:39] <gsnedders|work> erlehmann: And that means the fail ends immediately!
  352. # [14:39] <erlehmann> wargarbl
  353. # [14:39] <hsivonen> AryehGregor: Helsinki, Finland
  354. # [14:40] <erlehmann> i wish mozilla would give better parsing errors
  355. # [14:40] <AryehGregor> hsivonen, oh, no wonder.
  356. # [14:40] <erlehmann> hate them hate them hate them
  357. # [14:40] <erlehmann> presentation is sooo 1995
  358. # [14:40] * Joins: ttepasse (n=ttepas--@p5B016194.dip.t-dialin.net)
  359. # [14:45] * Joins: hobertoAtWork (n=hobertoa@gw1.mcgraw-hill.com)
  360. # [14:49] <AryehGregor> Can't people at least see your brilliant T-shirts when you're indoors?
  361. # [14:52] <hsivonen> AryehGregor: Usually indoors isn't warm enough for just a t-shirt. (Even though in Finland indoors is usually more t-shirt-friendly than in places where there's always cold AC.)
  362. # [14:52] <AryehGregor> You don't have central heating in Finland, or what?
  363. # [14:52] <hsivonen> AryehGregor: we do
  364. # [14:52] <hsivonen> very central in fact
  365. # [14:52] <AryehGregor> Maybe you guys are so used to being cold that you can't be bothered to keep the temperature decently warm indoors?
  366. # [14:53] <hsivonen> AryehGregor: on the contrary
  367. # [14:53] <hsivonen> AryehGregor: I often feel that hotel rooms and conference centers abroad aren't warm enough
  368. # [14:53] <Dashiva> hsivonen is just cold in general
  369. # [14:55] * Joins: ttepass- (n=ttepas--@p5B017CF2.dip.t-dialin.net)
  370. # [14:55] * hsivonen still hasn't decided what the right strategy for choosing a hotel in California for December is: choosing a hotel with bad but bearable winter proofness or a hotel with unknown winter proofness
  371. # [14:57] * Joins: Midler (n=midler@212.37.124.243)
  372. # [14:57] <jgraham> Sweden at least has very good insulation and good heating. I still wear a jumper indoors though
  373. # [14:58] <jgraham> (typically not a thick one like you want outside for the winter but still...)
  374. # [15:02] <TabAtkins> Hotels are always cold, actually. Everywhere in the US. I dunno why.
  375. # [15:02] <jgraham> Because they are big and expensive to heat but people don't realise they will be cold until they have already booked?
  376. # [15:03] <AryehGregor> Over here (New York City), in most places you never have to wear a jacket indoors. If you do, people complain bitterly about how cold it is.
  377. # [15:06] <hsivonen> I generally assume a jacket indoors isn't needed in Finland but is needed in California due to AC.
  378. # [15:07] * jgraham is actually quite cold indoors right now
  379. # [15:08] * Quits: karlushi (n=karlushi@fw.vdl2.ca) ("Leaving")
  380. # [15:08] * Quits: ttepasse (n=ttepas--@p5B016194.dip.t-dialin.net) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  381. # [15:11] <AryehGregor> When I was in California, I mostly didn't need a jacket there, either.
  382. # [15:11] <TabAtkins> jgraham: No, they're *always* cold. Even down here in Houston, where it's always hot. If a hotel is hot it's because (a) the hotel is super-crappy or (b) the power is out.
  383. # [15:11] <AryehGregor> We were probably spending most of our time in different types of buildings, though.
  384. # [15:11] <AryehGregor> Also, I was in Berkeley, and even in the summer it doesn't need much air conditioning. Very temperate place.
  385. # [15:12] * Joins: virtuelv (n=virtuelv@162.179.251.212.customer.cdi.no)
  386. # [15:12] * Joins: aroben (n=aroben@unaffiliated/aroben)
  387. # [15:12] <AryehGregor> (Climatically, I mean. Not, for instance, politically.)
  388. # [15:13] <AryehGregor> (I could swear that every second stop sign had something written under "STOP". "STOP war", "STOP eating animals", "STOP Bush", . . .
  389. # [15:13] <AryehGregor> )
  390. # [15:15] * Joins: rubys1 (n=rubys@cpe-065-190-139-141.nc.res.rr.com)
  391. # [15:18] * Joins: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@67.188.0.62)
  392. # [15:20] * rubys1 is now known as ruby
  393. # [15:20] * ruby is now known as rubys
  394. # [15:22] <ment> http://www.chrishiggins.com/blog/archives/images/portland_stop_hammer_time.jpg
  395. # [15:23] * Joins: mitnavn (n=mitnavn@unaffiliated/mitnavn)
  396. # [15:23] * Quits: GarethAdams|Home (n=GarethAd@pdpc/supporter/active/GarethAdams)
  397. # [15:29] * Quits: KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@c-67-164-14-96.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) ("The computer fell asleep")
  398. # [15:32] <ment> in the section 9.2.4.10 Tag name state, where are the lowercase letters?
  399. # [15:33] <ment> (reading from 27.10.09 draft, is there any newer version?)
  400. # [15:41] * Joins: Famic (i=famic@vol75-9-82-239-72-190.fbx.proxad.net)
  401. # [15:41] <Dashiva> ment: They are "everything else"
  402. # [15:42] <Dashiva> Uppercase are called out because they have to be lowercased
  403. # [15:42] <ment> oh i see. thanks.
  404. # [15:43] <Famic> is it too soon to create sites using html5 or is it ok ?
  405. # [15:43] <Dashiva> Yes and no
  406. # [15:43] <Dashiva> Some features work fine, others haven't been implemented yet
  407. # [15:44] <Famic> what about just using new tags instead of divs to organise the contents ?
  408. # [15:44] <Dashiva> As long as you use the workaround for old IE, that should be fine
  409. # [15:44] <Famic> I'm thinking section, article, footer, time, etc
  410. # [15:45] <Famic> you mean html5shiv ?
  411. # [15:45] * Joins: dbaron (n=dbaron@c-98-234-51-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  412. # [15:45] <Famic> seems not. What workaround then ?
  413. # [15:45] <Dashiva> That's the one
  414. # [15:46] <Famic> ok so I can safely use those tags instead of divs and hell won't break loose on my site ?
  415. # [15:46] <Dashiva> Well, not from those tags at least
  416. # [15:47] <Famic> kewl then :)
  417. # [15:50] * Joins: mcue (i=82ef4cb9@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/session)
  418. # [15:50] * Quits: mcue (i=82ef4cb9@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/session) (Nick collision from syn.)
  419. # [15:56] * Joins: mcue (i=82ef4cb9@gateway/web/freenode/x-molxvgceqyzosqbr)
  420. # [16:00] * Joins: myakura (n=myakura@114.163.221.102)
  421. # [16:01] * Quits: webben (n=benh@nat/yahoo/x-phtgcbueylhhekuq) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  422. # [16:03] * Quits: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@67.188.0.62)
  423. # [16:10] * Quits: nessy (n=Adium@124-168-142-226.dyn.iinet.net.au) ("Leaving.")
  424. # [16:14] <crash\> disabled on <fieldset> is good, but why not also on <form>?
  425. # [16:14] <zcorpan_> what's the use case?
  426. # [16:16] <crash\> <from disable> and enabling it via scripting
  427. # [16:16] <crash\> for example
  428. # [16:16] <crash\> +d
  429. # [16:16] <crash\> since some element may not grouped by <fieldset>
  430. # [16:17] <zcorpan_> why would you disable a whole form?
  431. # [16:17] <crash\> after sending a form
  432. # [16:19] <zcorpan_> you want to disable a form when the user clicks submit?
  433. # [16:20] * Joins: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@nat/google/session)
  434. # [16:20] * Joins: webben (n=benh@nat/yahoo/session)
  435. # [16:22] <crash\> for example
  436. # [16:24] * Parts: rubys (n=rubys@cpe-065-190-139-141.nc.res.rr.com)
  437. # [16:25] * hcr is now known as hamcore
  438. # [16:26] * Quits: JoePeck (n=JoePeck@cpe-74-69-85-249.rochester.res.rr.com) (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
  439. # [16:26] * Joins: JoePeck (n=JoePeck@cpe-74-69-85-249.rochester.res.rr.com)
  440. # [16:26] * Joins: fishd_ (n=darin@nat/google/x-phrgcfcqgbjhnqzj)
  441. # [16:31] <erlehmann> crash\, disable the submit button instead. problem solved.
  442. # [16:33] <crash\> true, just a question :)
  443. # [16:35] * Joins: karlushi (n=karlushi@209.104.75.194)
  444. # [16:36] * Quits: othree (n=othree@admin39.ct.ntust.edu.tw) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  445. # [16:38] * Joins: othree (n=othree@admin39.ct.ntust.edu.tw)
  446. # [16:52] * hamcore is now known as hcr
  447. # [16:52] * hcr is now known as hamcore
  448. # [16:53] <myakura> lol http://f.hatena.ne.jp/edvakf/20091030004848
  449. # [16:53] * Quits: JoePeck (n=JoePeck@cpe-74-69-85-249.rochester.res.rr.com)
  450. # [16:53] * Parts: mcue (i=82ef4cb9@gateway/web/freenode/x-molxvgceqyzosqbr)
  451. # [16:58] * Parts: krijn (n=krijnhoe@141.93.23.140)
  452. # [16:59] * Quits: Maurice (n=ano@a80-101-46-164.adsl.xs4all.nl) ("Disconnected...")
  453. # [17:01] * Quits: virtuelv (n=virtuelv@162.179.251.212.customer.cdi.no) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  454. # [17:03] * Quits: mpt (n=mpt@canonical/mpt) (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  455. # [17:05] * Joins: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@EM114-48-191-103.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  456. # [17:17] * Joins: mpt (n=mpt@canonical/mpt)
  457. # [17:19] <gsnedders|work> Apparently I have a scary laugh
  458. # [17:20] <TabAtkins> It fits you.
  459. # [17:20] * Quits: zcorpan_ (n=zcorpan@c83-252-193-59.bredband.comhem.se)
  460. # [17:20] <gsnedders|work> Listening to goth metal, laughing scarily, and working. And annoying jgraham from time to time.
  461. # [17:21] <TabAtkins> I've got something that sounds like goth disco. That's about the closest I get. The rest of my music is hard rock and house, mostly.
  462. # [17:22] <gsnedders|work> goth disco?
  463. # [17:22] * gsnedders|work is curious now
  464. # [17:22] <TabAtkins> The Rasmus.
  465. # [17:22] <gsnedders|work> (Sounds like something I wouldn't like, but it sounds interesting nevertheless)
  466. # [17:28] * Joins: ap (n=ap@17.246.19.174)
  467. # [17:35] * Joins: mlpug (n=mlpug@a88-115-164-40.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
  468. # [17:39] <gsnedders|work> Gah. Only one Kittie album on Spotify.
  469. # [17:43] <daedb> Kittie still exists?
  470. # [17:43] <gsnedders|work> daedb: Yeah
  471. # [17:45] <daedb> I haven't heard anything from them in about 8 years...
  472. # [17:48] * aroben is now known as aroben|lunch
  473. # [17:49] <gsnedders|work> daedb: Heh. The only album by them on Spotify is from this year. :)
  474. # [17:49] <gsnedders|work> (It's all right, but I prefer some of their older stuff more.)
  475. # [17:54] * Quits: drunknbass_work (n=aaron@pool-71-107-253-243.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  476. # [17:55] * Joins: JonathanNeal (n=Jonathan@rrcs-76-79-114-213.west.biz.rr.com)
  477. # [18:02] * Joins: virtuelv (n=virtuelv@162.179.251.212.customer.cdi.no)
  478. # [18:07] * Quits: weinig (n=weinig@c-67-180-35-124.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  479. # [18:08] * Joins: yoshu (n=josh@174-18-195-170.tcso.qwest.net)
  480. # [18:10] * Joins: sbublava (n=stephan@77.117.206.169)
  481. # [18:16] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@c-69-181-42-237.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  482. # [18:19] * Joins: sylvaing (n=sylvaing@nat/microsoft/session)
  483. # [18:21] <daedb> gsnedders|work: Their new album sounds pretty decent, better than I expected :)
  484. # [18:28] * Quits: yoshu (n=josh@174-18-195-170.tcso.qwest.net)
  485. # [18:29] <gsnedders|work> What var foo = "bar"; does within a with statement depends upon the context in which the with statement is executed.
  486. # [18:29] <gsnedders|work> Um, OK.
  487. # [18:31] * Quits: archtech (i=stanv@83.228.56.37)
  488. # [18:35] * Joins: yoshu (n=josh@174-18-195-170.tcso.qwest.net)
  489. # [18:36] * aroben|lunch is now known as aroben
  490. # [18:36] * Quits: mitnavn (n=mitnavn@unaffiliated/mitnavn) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  491. # [18:37] * Joins: Maurice (i=copyman@5ED548D4.cable.ziggo.nl)
  492. # [18:38] * Joins: dave_levin (n=dave_lev@74.125.59.65)
  493. # [18:41] * Quits: dbaron (n=dbaron@c-98-234-51-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) ("8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.")
  494. # [18:44] * Joins: GPHemsley (n=GPHemsle@pdpc/supporter/student/GPHemsley)
  495. # [18:45] * Joins: mitnavn (n=mitnavn@unaffiliated/mitnavn)
  496. # [18:45] * Quits: mitnavn (n=mitnavn@unaffiliated/mitnavn) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  497. # [18:53] * Joins: mpilgrim (n=mark@rrcs-96-10-240-189.midsouth.biz.rr.com)
  498. # [18:55] * Joins: [1]mpilgrim (n=mark@nat/google/session)
  499. # [18:57] * Joins: zcorpan_ (n=zcorpan@c83-252-193-59.bredband.comhem.se)
  500. # [19:03] * Quits: myakura (n=myakura@114.163.221.102) ("Leaving...")
  501. # [19:06] * Joins: jwalden (n=waldo@63.245.220.240)
  502. # [19:07] * Joins: dbaron (n=dbaron@nat/mozilla/session)
  503. # [19:08] * Joins: weinig (n=weinig@17.246.17.253)
  504. # [19:12] * Quits: zcorpan_ (n=zcorpan@c83-252-193-59.bredband.comhem.se) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  505. # [19:12] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@17.246.16.138)
  506. # [19:12] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@17.246.16.138) (Remote closed the connection)
  507. # [19:13] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@nat/apple/session)
  508. # [19:14] * Quits: mpilgrim (n=mark@rrcs-96-10-240-189.midsouth.biz.rr.com) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  509. # [19:14] * [1]mpilgrim is now known as mpilgrim
  510. # [19:15] * Joins: zcorpan_ (n=zcorpan@c83-252-193-59.bredband.comhem.se)
  511. # [19:24] * Quits: mat_t (n=mattomas@91.189.88.12) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  512. # [19:24] * Joins: slightlyoff (n=slightly@72.14.229.81)
  513. # [19:34] * Quits: zcorpan_ (n=zcorpan@c83-252-193-59.bredband.comhem.se) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  514. # [19:38] * Parts: jorlow (n=jorlow@nat/google/x-gcdknsvedkhcbgrm)
  515. # [19:38] * Joins: jorlow (n=jorlow@nat/google/x-gcdknsvedkhcbgrm)
  516. # [19:40] <gsnedders|work> hsivonen: yt?
  517. # [19:40] * Quits: cedricv (n=cedric@112.199.152.227)
  518. # [19:42] <gsnedders|work> hsivonen: I'm trying to get the parser (in Java) to parse from a string to a DOM
  519. # [19:45] * Quits: karlushi (n=karlushi@209.104.75.194) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  520. # [19:45] * Joins: karlushi (n=karlushi@fw.vdl2.ca)
  521. # [19:47] * Quits: mlpug (n=mlpug@a88-115-164-40.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Remote closed the connection)
  522. # [19:48] * Joins: smaug__ (n=chatzill@cs181150024.pp.htv.fi)
  523. # [19:50] <Philip`> gsnedders|work: What problems are you having?
  524. # [19:50] <gsnedders|work> Philip`: I have no idea how to start
  525. # [19:52] * gsnedders|work is trying to use JRuby, but that's starting to seem a bit weird
  526. # [19:54] * Quits: sbublava (n=stephan@77.117.206.169)
  527. # [19:54] <Philip`> HtmlDocumentBuilder parser = new HtmlDocumentBuilder(XmlViolationPolicy.ALTER_INFOSET);
  528. # [19:54] <Philip`> Reader reader = new StringReader(input);
  529. # [19:54] <Philip`> I think that might do it
  530. # [19:54] <Philip`> Document doc = parser.parse(reader);
  531. # [19:55] <Philip`> (Not tested, though)
  532. # [19:56] * Quits: smaug_ (n=chatzill@82.181.150.24) (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
  533. # [20:00] <gsnedders|work> There's something whacky going on with JRuby
  534. # [20:00] <gsnedders|work> gah
  535. # [20:00] <gsnedders|work> Writing Java for the first time in around five years is starting to look like a good solution
  536. # [20:02] * Quits: mpilgrim (n=mark@nat/google/x-sgrwmjjsquvjdmve) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  537. # [20:04] * Quits: svl (n=me@g228083184.adsl.alicedsl.de) ("And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.")
  538. # [20:09] <Philip`> Writing Java's not too bad, as long as you've got an autocompleting IDE :-)
  539. # [20:09] <gsnedders|work> And you have a vague clue of the language
  540. # [20:10] <Philip`> and it seems likely to cause fewer layers of problems than JRuby
  541. # [20:10] <gsnedders|work> Which I don't really have any more :)
  542. # [20:10] <gsnedders|work> Philip`: Indeed
  543. # [20:10] <Philip`> It's just like Javascript with types
  544. # [20:10] * gsnedders|work could also head out to get food, which would be nice
  545. # [20:10] <gsnedders|work> and speed, that's another thing it has on Javascript
  546. # [20:10] <Philip`> so you must have a vague clue :-)
  547. # [20:11] <Philip`> It only has speed because JS implementations were rubbish
  548. # [20:12] <Philip`> All you need to do is write JS very carefully in a restricted subset that looks a lot like Java, and then use V8 and it'll go fast
  549. # [20:12] <Philip`> (from what I've heard)
  550. # [20:12] <gsnedders|work> So we can have HTML parsers in Javascript? :P
  551. # [20:13] <Philip`> String manipulation probably isn't part of that restricted subset :-p
  552. # [20:16] <gsnedders|work> Wow, yui2's git repo is huge
  553. # [20:23] * Joins: roc (n=roc@121-72-221-3.dsl.telstraclear.net)
  554. # [20:24] * Quits: franksalim (n=frank@adsl-76-221-202-115.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) ("Ex-Chat")
  555. # [20:26] * Quits: kristallpirat (n=kristall@c-base/crew/kristall) (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
  556. # [20:27] * Joins: kristallpirat (n=kristall@c-base/crew/kristall)
  557. # [20:32] * Joins: tyoshino_ (n=tyoshino@220.109.219.244)
  558. # [20:32] * Quits: wakaba_ (n=wakaba_@98.225.100.220.dy.bbexcite.jp) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  559. # [20:33] * Joins: ojan (n=ojan@nat/google/x-tijjuunskuefwjxv)
  560. # [20:33] * Parts: ojan (n=ojan@nat/google/x-tijjuunskuefwjxv)
  561. # [20:35] <TabAtkins> >_< Philip`, you should know very well that javascript is nothing like Java. They both share a C-like syntax, that's all.
  562. # [20:37] * Joins: smaug_ (n=chatzill@cs181150024.pp.htv.fi)
  563. # [20:38] * Joins: smaug___ (n=chatzill@cs181150024.pp.htv.fi)
  564. # [20:40] * Quits: smaug (n=chatzill@82.181.150.24) (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
  565. # [20:41] * smaug_ is now known as smaug
  566. # [20:41] * smaug___ is now known as smaug_
  567. # [20:41] <Philip`> TabAtkins: They have variables and functions and strings and numbers and stuff too
  568. # [20:42] <TabAtkins> By that logic, nearly all programming languages are basically Java.
  569. # [20:42] <Philip`> Sure
  570. # [20:42] <TabAtkins> I challenge your discriminatory abilities, and will not send out for anything without an extremely detailed description of what I want.
  571. # [20:43] <TabAtkins> Otherwise I'll end up with a yellow-painted apple instead of the banana I asked for.
  572. # [20:46] <Philip`> You're focusing far too much on differences and far too little on similarities
  573. # [20:46] <Philip`> You should be glad if I bring you a yellow apple, and not staples or clouds or many other things
  574. # [20:46] * Quits: tyoshino (n=tyoshino@220.109.219.244) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  575. # [20:48] * Quits: smaug__ (n=chatzill@cs181150024.pp.htv.fi) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  576. # [20:55] <ment> how would be parsed attributes in this link? <a title= class=link href=http://slashdot.org>
  577. # [20:55] <ment> "title" => " class=link", right?
  578. # [20:58] * Joins: arun__ (n=arun@nat/mozilla/x-oxoepmazgneyeaxz)
  579. # [20:59] * arun__ is now known as otherarun
  580. # [21:08] <erlehmann> ment, what are you trying to accomplish?
  581. # [21:10] * Joins: mitnavn (n=mitnavn@unaffiliated/mitnavn)
  582. # [21:10] <ment> erlehmann: only checking if it's the right behaviour
  583. # [21:13] <erlehmann> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/tokenization.html#attribute-name-state
  584. # [21:13] * Joins: mat_t (n=mattomas@80-225-9-175.dynamic.dial.as9105.com)
  585. # [21:13] <erlehmann> so wo go from attribute name state to before attribute value state
  586. # [21:13] <erlehmann> then we consume a space character
  587. # [21:14] <erlehmann> and stay in the … seems you are right. thats counter-intuitive
  588. # [21:14] <ment> i know, i've clicked through it too. but i've also seen <a attr= otherattr= href=...> in the "wild"
  589. # [21:15] <erlehmann> Hixie, can you explain the rationale of handling attributes like this? isn't this more likely to break existing content then the alternative?
  590. # [21:16] <erlehmann> i would have expected that a space triggers before attribute name state or something
  591. # [21:17] * Quits: slightlyoff (n=slightly@72.14.229.81) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  592. # [21:17] <erlehmann> ment, i guess it has something to do with <span class=foo bar baz>
  593. # [21:18] <erlehmann> but still :(
  594. # [21:19] <erlehmann> weird, as everything in here
  595. # [21:19] <ment> class=foo bar baz would get parsed as class="foo" bar baz
  596. # [21:19] <erlehmann> just realized it too
  597. # [21:19] <erlehmann> 9.2.4.40 Attribute value (unquoted) state ends on a space
  598. # [21:22] <erlehmann> ment, how about sending that to the list?
  599. # [21:24] <ment> good idea
  600. # [21:26] * Quits: sylvaing (n=sylvaing@nat/microsoft/x-ldwkoyvzxyiaqwno) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  601. # [21:26] <gsnedders|work> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C!DOCTYPE%20html%3E%0D%0A%3Ca%20title%3D%20class%3Dlink%20href%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fslashdot.org%3E shows all browsers on my system doing the same
  602. # [21:26] <gsnedders|work> (and matching html5)
  603. # [21:28] <erlehmann> gsnedders|work, so ment and i are both dumb.
  604. # [21:28] * Joins: nessy (n=Adium@124-168-142-226.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  605. # [21:29] * Joins: itpastorn (n=gunther@139.57.227.87.static.th.siw.siwnet.net)
  606. # [21:30] <erlehmann> gsnedders|work, after the equals sign, are we in before attribute value state ? if so, what is done when encountering a space char? http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/tokenization.html#before-attribute-value-state
  607. # [21:30] <gsnedders|work> erlehmann: Stay in that state
  608. # [21:31] <gsnedders|work> Odd.
  609. # [21:31] <gsnedders|work> What does IE do?
  610. # [21:31] <erlehmann> well, then i'm confused
  611. # [21:31] <gsnedders|work> Oh, wait
  612. # [21:31] <gsnedders|work> No
  613. # [21:32] <gsnedders|work> That makes complete sense
  614. # [21:32] <erlehmann> care to elaborate?
  615. # [21:32] <gsnedders|work> consume "=" char in the attribute name state, change to before attribute value state.
  616. # [21:32] <gsnedders|work> consume " " in the before attribute value state, stay in same state.
  617. # [21:33] <gsnedders|work> consume "c" in the before attribute value state, create attribute whose name is "c", change to attribute value (unquoted) state
  618. # [21:33] <gsnedders|work> (nothing interesting happens…)
  619. # [21:34] <gsnedders|work> consume "k" in the attribute value (unquoted) state, append "k" to attribute value"
  620. # [21:34] <gsnedders|work> s/create attribute whose name is/set attribute value to/
  621. # [21:34] <erlehmann> wait
  622. # [21:34] <gsnedders|work> consume " " in attribute value (unquoted) state, switch to before attribute name state
  623. # [21:34] <gsnedders|work> This matches all browsers
  624. # [21:36] <erlehmann> gsnedders|work, i can't follow you at the "c" consuming process. doesn't it match the "anything else" provision of section 9.2.4.37 ?
  625. # [21:36] <gsnedders|work> Yes
  626. # [21:36] <gsnedders|work> so you consume it, append it to the attribute value, and switch to that state
  627. # [21:36] <gsnedders|work> (make sure you evaluate the substituion I wrote above fixing a fairly major bug in what I wrote)
  628. # [21:37] <erlehmann> some day i will make a big poster of the HTML5 state machine
  629. # [21:37] <erlehmann> and put it on my wall
  630. # [21:38] <erlehmann> to confuse guests
  631. # [21:38] <erlehmann> right beside the openTTD airport state machine, just to see how simple handling airplanes is compared to this mess
  632. # [21:38] <webben> "a big poster of the HTML5 state machine" *Do Want* ;)
  633. # [21:38] <ment> hehe
  634. # [21:38] <gsnedders|work> s/big/very big/
  635. # [21:39] <gsnedders|work> Sorry, I want to read it.
  636. # [21:44] * Quits: yoshu (n=josh@174-18-195-170.tcso.qwest.net) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  637. # [21:44] * Joins: yoshu_ (n=josh@174-18-195-170.tcso.qwest.net)
  638. # [21:44] * yoshu_ is now known as yoshu
  639. # [21:54] * Quits: otherarun (n=arun@nat/mozilla/x-oxoepmazgneyeaxz) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  640. # [21:54] * Joins: arun__ (n=arun@nat/mozilla/x-edmfivchtjmqxpli)
  641. # [21:57] * Joins: slightlyoff (n=slightly@72.14.229.81)
  642. # [22:04] * lmorchard is now known as lmorchard|away
  643. # [22:06] * lmorchard|away is now known as lmorchard
  644. # [22:10] * Joins: KarlinTrouble (n=karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  645. # [22:11] * Joins: zcorpan_ (n=zcorpan@c83-252-193-59.bredband.comhem.se)
  646. # [22:11] * Quits: pmuellr (n=pmuellr@nat/ibm/x-skiaaturvlwbbfwt) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  647. # [22:12] * Quits: karlcow (n=karl@128.30.54.58) (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
  648. # [22:14] * Joins: cgriego (n=cgriego@rrcs-24-173-70-117.sw.biz.rr.com)
  649. # [22:16] * Quits: mpt (n=mpt@canonical/mpt) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  650. # [22:16] * jgraham wants the HTML5 state machine poster to be drawn by the xkcd guy
  651. # [22:17] <TabAtkins> jgraham: Randall Munroe.
  652. # [22:19] * Quits: mat_t (n=mattomas@80-225-9-175.dynamic.dial.as9105.com) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  653. # [22:23] <jgraham> TabAtkins: Yeah I know but it is more fun to say "the xkcd guy" (and I guess more accessible)
  654. # [22:23] <TabAtkins> Makes sense.
  655. # [22:24] * Joins: zcorpan (n=zcorpan@c83-252-193-59.bredband.comhem.se)
  656. # [22:24] <zcorpan> there's http://canvex.lazyilluminati.com/misc/states10.png but it's out of date
  657. # [22:25] <TabAtkins> Holy crap.
  658. # [22:25] <zcorpan> Philip`: can you make a new one that's up to date?
  659. # [22:26] <TabAtkins> I'll bet that could be rearranged to make less line-crossing.
  660. # [22:26] * Joins: mat_t (n=mattomas@80-225-9-175.dynamic.dial.as9105.com)
  661. # [22:27] <TabAtkins> I was pretty good at that one game where you had to rearrange nodes to create a planar graph.
  662. # [22:27] <zcorpan> TabAtkins: go for it
  663. # [22:28] <TabAtkins> I don't want to put in the effort to create the initial graph, though. If I was given something already created I'd spend the time to rearrange it.
  664. # [22:28] <jgraham> Imagine that, drawn by the xkcd guy, on our office wall
  665. # [22:28] <Philip`> I think http://philip.html5.org/misc/tokeniser_states.png is the latest version
  666. # [22:28] <Philip`> zcorpan: I can't, until I make loads of updates to my tokeniser
  667. # [22:28] <jgraham> In unrelated news I had a bizzare dream that TabAtkins was an oldish guy with a beard working at a supermarket checkout
  668. # [22:29] * Quits: zcorpan_ (n=zcorpan@c83-252-193-59.bredband.comhem.se) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  669. # [22:29] * Joins: workmad3 (n=davidwor@cpc3-bagu10-0-0-cust651.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com)
  670. # [22:29] <TabAtkins> I'm young and a webdev, but I do have a beard.
  671. # [22:29] <TabAtkins> I haven't ever dreamed about any of you guys, though.
  672. # [22:30] <Philip`> http://philip.html5.org/misc/insertion-modes-3.png
  673. # [22:30] <Philip`> is the equivalent for the tree construction algorithm
  674. # [22:31] <erlehmann> jgraham, one can emulate his style pretty easily ;)
  675. # [22:31] <Philip`> (Red for parse errors, blue for EOF, I think)
  676. # [22:31] <TabAtkins> That one's not bad, Philip`.
  677. # [22:31] * ment has quite similiar diagrams in his notebook
  678. # [22:32] <erlehmann> TabAtkins, if you are good at that game (gplanarity?), better patch graphviz, so we all wan benefit from that
  679. # [22:33] <TabAtkins> Yeah, as soon as I mentioned it I went and googled for it. I'm playing it right now.
  680. # [22:33] <Philip`> (All these graphs are just generated automatically from OCaml encodings of the algorithms)
  681. # [22:33] <TabAtkins> Just plain Planarity.
  682. # [22:34] <erlehmann> Philip`, so can i have the .dot files to experiment a bit?
  683. # [22:34] <TabAtkins> Is it possible to prove planarity of a graph?
  684. # [22:34] <Philip`> What do you mean by "prove planarity"?
  685. # [22:34] <TabAtkins> I know Planarity just generates planar graphs and then scrambles the nodes.
  686. # [22:35] <Philip`> Prove that it is possible to find a 2d embedding that is planar, or something?
  687. # [22:35] * Joins: gsnedders (n=gsnedder@c83-252-238-8.bredband.comhem.se)
  688. # [22:35] <TabAtkins> Prove whether the graph can be made planar, or if there *must* be an edge-crossing (or alternately, if the graph must be 3-dimensional).
  689. # [22:35] <erlehmann> TabAtkins, you mean compute if a graph is planar just by having a node list, using some simple rule ?
  690. # [22:35] <TabAtkins> erlehmann: As long as "simple" is less than "throw a computer at it to bruteforce it", yes.
  691. # [22:35] * Quits: zcorpan (n=zcorpan@c83-252-193-59.bredband.comhem.se)
  692. # [22:35] <hober> oh, my friend John wrote planarity.
  693. # [22:36] <TabAtkins> hober: Awesome! Pass along my thanks. I whiled away several hours with that. In other news, I like untangling knots.
  694. # [22:37] <Philip`> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planarity_testing
  695. # [22:38] <TabAtkins> Ah, excellent. I feared it might be a bad problem. Wonderful.
  696. # [22:38] <erlehmann> oh, some guy i know took planarity, dumped the level files and wrote an application for a home-built multitouch-desk
  697. # [22:38] <TabAtkins> There are so many things that'll be great once surfaces get smart.
  698. # [22:39] <TabAtkins> If anyone's an RPG dork, there's a group writing a D&D 4e battlemat for MS's Surface.
  699. # [22:39] <Philip`> I hope they get smart enough to tell the difference between fingers and elbows and mugs
  700. # [22:39] <erlehmann> TabAtkins, if you have a multitouch display, install python-libavg and try this https://www.libavg.de/svn/trunk/avg_media/mtc/planarity/
  701. # [22:39] <TabAtkins> I don't, but I'll bookmark that.
  702. # [22:40] <erlehmann> or otherwise, if you ever come to berlin, the local hacker space has one ;)
  703. # [22:40] <TabAtkins> Man, where were you guys like 4 years ago when I was in Berlin?
  704. # [22:40] <erlehmann> better: one of the local hackerspaces ;)
  705. # [22:40] <TabAtkins> (For like 2 days, but still.)
  706. # [22:40] * Quits: workmad3 (n=davidwor@cpc3-bagu10-0-0-cust651.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com)
  707. # [22:41] <erlehmann> the c-base existed 4 years ago. this software did not.
  708. # [22:41] <TabAtkins> I'll look you up next time I hop the ocean. ^_^
  709. # [22:41] <Philip`> erlehmann: I don't seem to have the .dot files for the tree constructor graph
  710. # [22:41] <erlehmann> \o/
  711. # [22:42] <erlehmann> Philip`, aww sad thing.
  712. # [22:42] <erlehmann> i once used graphviz to document most of the relationships at our school
  713. # [22:42] <TabAtkins> That would be interesting.
  714. # [22:42] <erlehmann> that is, only the publicly known
  715. # [22:43] <erlehmann> for obvious reasons
  716. # [22:43] <erlehmann> wait, i can upload it (anonymiz'd)
  717. # [22:43] <TabAtkins> I have an urge to write something that will let me do planarity-type manipulation on arbitrary graphs.
  718. # [22:44] <erlehmann> oh shi-
  719. # [22:44] <Philip`> erlehmann: Hmm, but the code still compiles and produces a similar graph
  720. # [22:44] <TabAtkins> Should I learn <canvas> or just do it in DOM?
  721. # [22:44] <TabAtkins> (Probably the latter.)
  722. # [22:45] <erlehmann> TabAtkins, do it using SVG.
  723. # [22:45] * Quits: ROBOd (n=robod@89.122.216.38) ("http://www.robodesign.ro")
  724. # [22:45] <TabAtkins> I don't know SVG, though. I'd have to learn that too.
  725. # [22:45] <TabAtkins> Though I *have* been meaning to learn SVG anyway.
  726. # [22:45] <TabAtkins> And I'm certain it can do better curvy lines.
  727. # [22:45] * TabAtkins will start on it this weekend.
  728. # [22:46] <TabAtkins> And then I'll make your graphs all pretty-like.
  729. # [22:47] <Philip`> erlehmann: Oh, whoops, I already had a .dot uploaded
  730. # [22:47] <Philip`> http://philip.html5.org/misc/insertion-modes-3.dot
  731. # [22:47] <erlehmann> thank dou
  732. # [22:47] <Philip`> Also there's http://philip.html5.org/misc/insertion-modes-4.dot (newly generated) which is a bit different
  733. # [22:47] <erlehmann> i won't do the relationship-thingy btw. realized it isnt so anonymous after all
  734. # [22:47] <ment> yeah, graphing relationships rulez
  735. # [22:47] <ment> http://ibawizard.net/~thement/sapphic_map.jpg
  736. # [22:48] * Quits: mat_t (n=mattomas@80-225-9-175.dynamic.dial.as9105.com) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  737. # [22:49] * Quits: jwalden (n=waldo@63.245.220.240) (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
  738. # [22:49] <erlehmann> haha ment. mine is like that, only that the bubbles contain full names and i also denoted one-way-crush and ONS etc.
  739. # [22:50] <ment> how did you collect data?
  740. # [22:50] <erlehmann> wait, that are only girls names
  741. # [22:50] <erlehmann> lesbians \o/
  742. # [22:51] <TabAtkins> Thus "sapphic"
  743. # [22:51] <erlehmann> ment, i know pretty much about relationships, but i asked around what could be deemed as „public“
  744. # [22:51] <ment> ah, gossip-graph
  745. # [22:51] <erlehmann> didn't include for examble my best friends one night stand with some guy that only settled for her because … its a long story
  746. # [22:52] <erlehmann> no, i asked the people directly
  747. # [22:52] <erlehmann> was at a boarding school
  748. # [22:52] <erlehmann> and bored in class
  749. # [22:59] * Joins: mpt (n=mpt@canonical/mpt)
  750. # [23:00] <erlehmann> Philip`, sadly only dot produces meaningful results. too much chatter among these lines
  751. # [23:01] * Joins: jwalden (n=waldo@nat/mozilla/x-vxoeekhugtcguejh)
  752. # [23:03] * Joins: KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@157.22.22.46)
  753. # [23:05] <erlehmann> nice :) http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/8049/html5dot.png
  754. # [23:05] * Quits: slightlyoff (n=slightly@72.14.229.81) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  755. # [23:05] * Quits: mitnavn (n=mitnavn@unaffiliated/mitnavn) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  756. # [23:05] * Quits: karlushi (n=karlushi@fw.vdl2.ca) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  757. # [23:05] * Quits: GPHemsley (n=GPHemsle@pdpc/supporter/student/GPHemsley) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  758. # [23:05] * Quits: ap (n=ap@17.246.19.174) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  759. # [23:05] * Quits: ttepass- (n=ttepas--@p5B017CF2.dip.t-dialin.net) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  760. # [23:05] * Quits: TabAtkins (n=chatzill@70-139-15-246.lightspeed.rsbgtx.sbcglobal.net) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  761. # [23:05] * Quits: Amorphous (i=jan@unaffiliated/amorphous) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  762. # [23:05] * Quits: mpilgrim__ (n=mark@rrcs-96-10-240-189.midsouth.biz.rr.com) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  763. # [23:05] * Quits: bobs_ (n=oeskola@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  764. # [23:05] * Quits: syp (n=syp@lasigpc9.epfl.ch) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  765. # [23:05] * Quits: deltab (n=deltab@82-36-30-34.cable.ubr02.smal.blueyonder.co.uk) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  766. # [23:05] * Quits: ukai (n=ukai@220.109.219.244) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  767. # [23:05] * Quits: payman (n=payman@pat.se.opera.com) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  768. # [23:05] * Quits: ment (i=thement@ibawizard.net) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  769. # [23:05] * Quits: broquaint (i=097797d9@spc2-brig11-0-0-cust222.asfd.cable.virginmedia.com) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  770. # [23:05] * Quits: othree (n=othree@admin39.ct.ntust.edu.tw) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  771. # [23:05] * Quits: steevel (n=steevel@irc.kodslav.org) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  772. # [23:05] * Quits: Philip` (n=philip@zaynar.co.uk) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  773. # [23:05] * Quits: scherkus (n=scherkus@74.125.59.73) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  774. # [23:05] * Quits: ray (i=ray@drong.notacat.org) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  775. # [23:05] * Quits: jwalden (n=waldo@nat/mozilla/x-vxoeekhugtcguejh) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  776. # [23:05] * Quits: yoshu (n=josh@174-18-195-170.tcso.qwest.net) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  777. # [23:05] * Quits: itpastorn (n=gunther@139.57.227.87.static.th.siw.siwnet.net) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  778. # [23:05] * Quits: smaug_ (n=chatzill@cs181150024.pp.htv.fi) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  779. # [23:05] * Quits: dave_levin (n=dave_lev@74.125.59.65) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  780. # [23:05] * Quits: Maurice (i=copyman@5ED548D4.cable.ziggo.nl) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  781. # [23:05] * Quits: cgriego (n=cgriego@rrcs-24-173-70-117.sw.biz.rr.com) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  782. # [23:05] * Quits: hobertoAtWork (n=hobertoa@gw1.mcgraw-hill.com) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  783. # [23:05] * Quits: erlehmann (n=erlehman@82.113.121.14) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  784. # [23:05] * Quits: hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  785. # [23:05] * Quits: gavin (n=gavin@people.mozilla.com) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  786. # [23:05] * Quits: dimich (n=dimich@74.125.59.73) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  787. # [23:05] * Quits: gsnedders|work (n=gsnedder@pat.se.opera.com) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  788. # [23:05] * Quits: eighty4 (n=eighty4@eighty4.se) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  789. # [23:05] * Quits: dbaron (n=dbaron@nat/mozilla/x-rdhtzqfmytzqarjf) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  790. # [23:05] * Quits: Phae (n=phaeness@gatea.mh.bbc.co.uk) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  791. # [23:05] * Quits: inimino (n=inimino@atekomi.inimino.org) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  792. # [23:05] * Quits: dbgi (n=benny@cpe-65-185-164-233.neo.res.rr.com) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  793. # [23:05] * Quits: daedb (n=daed@h11n1fls34o986.telia.com) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  794. # [23:05] * Quits: hsivonen (n=hsivonen@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  795. # [23:05] * Quits: jmb (n=jmb@login.ecs.soton.ac.uk) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  796. # [23:05] * Quits: Kuruma (n=Kuruman@p4082-ipbf3208hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  797. # [23:05] * Quits: KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@157.22.22.46) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  798. # [23:05] * Quits: tyoshino_ (n=tyoshino@220.109.219.244) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  799. # [23:05] * Quits: fishd_ (n=darin@nat/google/x-phrgcfcqgbjhnqzj) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  800. # [23:05] * Quits: aroben (n=aroben@unaffiliated/aroben) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  801. # [23:05] * Quits: tndH (n=Rob@cpc2-leed18-0-0-cust427.leed.cable.ntl.com) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  802. # [23:05] * Quits: jianli (n=jianli@74.125.59.73) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  803. # [23:05] * Quits: Famic (i=famic@vol75-9-82-239-72-190.fbx.proxad.net) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  804. # [23:05] * Quits: yutak (n=yutak@220.109.219.244) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  805. # [23:05] * Quits: Dashiva (i=Dashiva@wikia/Dashiva) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  806. # [23:05] * Quits: murr4y (n=murray@103.84-49-64.nextgentel.com) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  807. # [23:05] * Quits: tkent (n=tkent@220.109.219.244) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  808. # [23:05] * Quits: jcranmer (n=jcranmer@ltsp2.csl.tjhsst.edu) (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  809. # [23:06] * Joins: slightlyoff (n=slightly@72.14.229.81)
  810. # [23:06] * Joins: mitnavn (n=mitnavn@unaffiliated/mitnavn)
  811. # [23:06] * Joins: karlushi (n=karlushi@fw.vdl2.ca)
  812. # [23:06] * Joins: GPHemsley (n=GPHemsle@pdpc/supporter/student/GPHemsley)
  813. # [23:06] * Joins: ap (n=ap@17.246.19.174)
  814. # [23:06] * Joins: ttepass- (n=ttepas--@p5B017CF2.dip.t-dialin.net)
  815. # [23:06] * Joins: TabAtkins (n=chatzill@70-139-15-246.lightspeed.rsbgtx.sbcglobal.net)
  816. # [23:06] * Joins: Amorphous (i=jan@unaffiliated/amorphous)
  817. # [23:06] * Joins: ment (i=thement@ibawizard.net)
  818. # [23:06] * Joins: mpilgrim__ (n=mark@rrcs-96-10-240-189.midsouth.biz.rr.com)
  819. # [23:06] * Joins: broquaint (i=097797d9@spc2-brig11-0-0-cust222.asfd.cable.virginmedia.com)
  820. # [23:06] * Joins: payman (n=payman@pat.se.opera.com)
  821. # [23:06] * Joins: syp (n=syp@lasigpc9.epfl.ch)
  822. # [23:06] * Joins: ukai (n=ukai@220.109.219.244)
  823. # [23:06] * Joins: deltab (n=deltab@82-36-30-34.cable.ubr02.smal.blueyonder.co.uk)
  824. # [23:06] * Joins: bobs_ (n=oeskola@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi)
  825. # [23:07] * Joins: KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@157.22.22.46)
  826. # [23:07] * Joins: jwalden (n=waldo@nat/mozilla/x-vxoeekhugtcguejh)
  827. # [23:07] * Joins: cgriego (n=cgriego@rrcs-24-173-70-117.sw.biz.rr.com)
  828. # [23:07] * Joins: yoshu (n=josh@174-18-195-170.tcso.qwest.net)
  829. # [23:07] * Joins: itpastorn (n=gunther@139.57.227.87.static.th.siw.siwnet.net)
  830. # [23:07] * Joins: smaug_ (n=chatzill@cs181150024.pp.htv.fi)
  831. # [23:07] * Joins: tyoshino_ (n=tyoshino@220.109.219.244)
  832. # [23:07] * Joins: dbaron (n=dbaron@nat/mozilla/x-rdhtzqfmytzqarjf)
  833. # [23:07] * Joins: dave_levin (n=dave_lev@74.125.59.65)
  834. # [23:07] * Joins: Maurice (i=copyman@5ED548D4.cable.ziggo.nl)
  835. # [23:07] * Joins: othree (n=othree@admin39.ct.ntust.edu.tw)
  836. # [23:07] * Joins: fishd_ (n=darin@nat/google/x-phrgcfcqgbjhnqzj)
  837. # [23:07] * Joins: Famic (i=famic@vol75-9-82-239-72-190.fbx.proxad.net)
  838. # [23:07] * Joins: aroben (n=aroben@unaffiliated/aroben)
  839. # [23:07] * Joins: hobertoAtWork (n=hobertoa@gw1.mcgraw-hill.com)
  840. # [23:07] * Joins: Phae (n=phaeness@gatea.mh.bbc.co.uk)
  841. # [23:07] * Joins: erlehmann (n=erlehman@82.113.121.14)
  842. # [23:07] * Joins: inimino (n=inimino@atekomi.inimino.org)
  843. # [23:07] * Joins: steevel (n=steevel@irc.kodslav.org)
  844. # [23:07] * Joins: Philip` (n=philip@zaynar.co.uk)
  845. # [23:07] * Joins: scherkus (n=scherkus@74.125.59.73)
  846. # [23:07] * Joins: dbgi (n=benny@cpe-65-185-164-233.neo.res.rr.com)
  847. # [23:07] * Joins: daedb (n=daed@h11n1fls34o986.telia.com)
  848. # [23:07] * Joins: tndH (n=Rob@cpc2-leed18-0-0-cust427.leed.cable.ntl.com)
  849. # [23:07] * Joins: jianli (n=jianli@74.125.59.73)
  850. # [23:07] * Joins: gsnedders|work (n=gsnedder@pat.se.opera.com)
  851. # [23:07] * Joins: hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober)
  852. # [23:07] * Joins: hsivonen (n=hsivonen@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi)
  853. # [23:07] * Joins: ray (i=ray@drong.notacat.org)
  854. # [23:07] * Joins: gavin (n=gavin@people.mozilla.com)
  855. # [23:07] * Joins: jmb (n=jmb@login.ecs.soton.ac.uk)
  856. # [23:07] * Joins: tkent (n=tkent@220.109.219.244)
  857. # [23:07] * Joins: eighty4 (n=eighty4@eighty4.se)
  858. # [23:07] * Joins: Kuruma (n=Kuruman@p4082-ipbf3208hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp)
  859. # [23:07] * Joins: murr4y (n=murray@103.84-49-64.nextgentel.com)
  860. # [23:07] * Joins: dimich (n=dimich@74.125.59.73)
  861. # [23:07] * Joins: Dashiva (i=Dashiva@wikia/Dashiva)
  862. # [23:07] * Joins: yutak (n=yutak@220.109.219.244)
  863. # [23:07] * Joins: jcranmer (n=jcranmer@ltsp2.csl.tjhsst.edu)
  864. # [23:07] <TabAtkins> Way to kill everyone, erlehmann.
  865. # [23:08] <erlehmann> hai guys
  866. # [23:08] <gsnedders> erlehmann: killa.
  867. # [23:08] <erlehmann> as if
  868. # [23:08] <TabAtkins> Bastard.
  869. # [23:08] <erlehmann> "too much chatter", hehehe
  870. # [23:15] <TabAtkins> Am I being dumb, or is there a way to unset a radio button group?
  871. # [23:16] <gsnedders> TabAtkins: Via UI? Scripting?
  872. # [23:16] <TabAtkins> Scripting.
  873. # [23:17] <gsnedders> TabAtkins: loop over all radio buttons and set checked to false?
  874. # [23:17] <gsnedders> (or maybe it's called something different)
  875. # [23:18] <gsnedders> checked
  876. # [23:19] <TabAtkins> Doesn't appear to work. (I'm doing $("#foo input").removeAttr("checked").)
  877. # [23:19] <gsnedders> Not removeAttr
  878. # [23:19] <TabAtkins> Never mind, that does work. Bug in my code, then.
  879. # [23:19] <TabAtkins> jQuery, silly.
  880. # [23:19] <gsnedders> I meant the DOM attribute, not the content attribute
  881. # [23:19] <gsnedders> But I guess content attribute should work too
  882. # [23:20] <TabAtkins> I don't usually have to understand the difference with jq, luckily.
  883. # [23:21] <TabAtkins> So the answer is that I was being stupid. Forgot the # in front of #foo.
  884. # [23:21] <gsnedders> TabAtkins: jQuery doesn't save you from that
  885. # [23:22] <gsnedders> TabAtkins: You need a better framework obviously
  886. # [23:22] * Quits: Maurice (i=copyman@5ED548D4.cable.ziggo.nl)
  887. # [23:22] <TabAtkins> Obviously. One which understands what I mean when I mistype a selector.
  888. # [23:22] <gsnedders> Yeah, I mean it's AI that makes HTML error-handling awesome.
  889. # [23:23] <TabAtkins> Couldn't code without the cool, metallic feel of it wrapped around me.
  890. # [23:23] * Quits: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@EM114-48-191-103.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  891. # [23:23] <gsnedders> And Windows nowadays has HAL, so AI is spreading across the world!
  892. # [23:24] <Philip`> "nowadays"?
  893. # [23:24] <TabAtkins> On that note, http://www.cleverbot.com/ is the best chatterbot I've ever seen.
  894. # [23:24] <Philip`> Windows NT always had HAL
  895. # [23:24] <gsnedders> Philip`: I know.
  896. # [23:24] <gsnedders> Philip`: But in terms of widely-used releases, only two releases ago.
  897. # [23:25] <Philip`> Or, in all releases within the past decade
  898. # [23:25] <gsnedders> Philip`: What about ME?
  899. # [23:25] <Philip`> That doesn't exist
  900. # [23:25] * Joins: pmuellr (n=pmuellr@user-0ce2l9d.cable.mindspring.com)
  901. # [23:26] * Joins: workmad3 (n=davidwor@cpc3-bagu10-0-0-cust651.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com)
  902. # [23:26] <roc> dot can output SVG
  903. # [23:27] * Quits: aroben (n=aroben@unaffiliated/aroben) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  904. # [23:27] <Philip`> Like http://philip.html5.org/misc/insertion-modes-3.svg
  905. # [23:27] <Philip`> but the text overlaps the lines :-(
  906. # [23:28] <TabAtkins> Why don't I get scrollbars when I view that? (In Chrome.)
  907. # [23:29] <roc> because Webkit follows a part of the SVG spec that makes no sense
  908. # [23:29] <roc> although I thought we got the spec changed
  909. # [23:29] <TabAtkins> I see. So I need to bug that, I suppose.
  910. # [23:30] <roc> I seem to recall a bug on it, but I may be wrong
  911. # [23:30] <roc> Philip`: works for me, I guess you have different fonts. Just need to hack dot to use @font-face with a data: url
  912. # [23:32] <roc> unfortunately your graph suffers from the problem that dot doesn't try to do anything to keep the aspect ratio of the graph sane
  913. # [23:33] * Joins: othermaciej_ (n=mjs@17.246.16.138)
  914. # [23:36] * Quits: gsnedders (n=gsnedder@c83-252-238-8.bredband.comhem.se)
  915. # [23:36] <erlehmann> i figured out it would be pretty boring … http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/3418/html5.png
  916. # [23:36] <erlehmann> jgraham, see? its a waste of time.
  917. # [23:38] <TabAtkins> Damn, I'm going to have to trawl the "Make XKCD slightly worse" thread to find that font again.
  918. # [23:39] <TabAtkins> Btw: "macically".
  919. # [23:39] * Quits: hobertoAtWork (n=hobertoa@gw1.mcgraw-hill.com) ("Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de")
  920. # [23:43] * Quits: yoshu (n=josh@174-18-195-170.tcso.qwest.net)
  921. # [23:44] * Quits: virtuelv (n=virtuelv@162.179.251.212.customer.cdi.no) ("Ex-Chat")
  922. # [23:47] * Quits: workmad3 (n=davidwor@cpc3-bagu10-0-0-cust651.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com)
  923. # [23:49] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@nat/apple/x-emqpjibxtsrzezsf) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  924. # [23:49] * othermaciej_ is now known as othermaciej
  925. # [23:55] * Joins: yoshu (n=josh@174-18-195-170.tcso.qwest.net)
  926. # [23:56] * Quits: fishd_ (n=darin@nat/google/x-phrgcfcqgbjhnqzj) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  927. # Session Close: Fri Oct 30 00:00:00 2009

The end :)