/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2009-12-22 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Dec 22 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  5. # [00:22] <abarth> i'm really tired of the CORS/UM discussion on webapps
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  7. # [00:23] <abarth> it doesn't seem to be going anywhere
  8. # [00:24] <othermaciej> abarth: did my suggestion that people only post if they have new information to add not work?
  9. # [00:24] <abarth> tyler and ian are still talking about x-frame-options
  10. # [00:26] <abarth> (i should stop complaining and just ignore the threads)
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  14. # [02:27] * Topic is 'WHATWG: http://www.whatwg.org/ -- logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ -- stats: http://gavinsharp.com/irc/whatwg.html -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
  15. # [02:27] * Set by annevk42 on Mon Oct 19 22:03:06
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  17. # [02:37] <othermaciej> abarth, Hixie: the specs themselves do not say anything about deleting the other spec from the universe
  18. # [02:37] <othermaciej> abarth, Hixie: thus, by proposing to advance both, the chair in question has sort of decided the controversy
  19. # [02:38] <abarth> yes, although that might have been before tyler and mark make their "UM and no CORS" position clear
  20. # [02:38] <abarth> i failed to refrain from posting on that thread :(
  21. # [02:39] <othermaciej> I can't even bring myself to read the latest emails right now
  22. # [02:40] <othermaciej> but I think I will personally try not to post unless I have new information to add
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  24. # [02:54] <AryehGregor> roc, BTW, <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=535043>. Do you know what kind of ballpark response time I should expect? There seem to be 53 bugs with review requested from jst, some years old.
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  28. # [03:01] <roc> try asking for an ETA in the bug
  29. # [03:02] <AryehGregor> Is he automatically CCed?
  30. # [03:02] <roc> no, good point
  31. # [03:02] <roc> CC him
  32. # [03:04] <AryehGregor> k, thanks.
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  37. # [05:26] * Topic is 'WHATWG: http://www.whatwg.org/ -- logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ -- stats: http://gavinsharp.com/irc/whatwg.html -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
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  63. # [09:10] <GPHemsley> Is there any semantic value to @class?
  64. # [09:10] <GPHemsley> Or is it purely a connection to style?
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  68. # [09:28] <MikeSmith> GPHemsley: is that a trick question?
  69. # [09:28] <GPHemsley> um... no?
  70. # [09:29] <MikeSmith> OK, it seems clear it does have semantic value
  71. # [09:30] <MikeSmith> though I wouldn't be surprised to find somebody dispute that for whatever reason
  72. # [09:31] <GPHemsley> so then it can be used (semantically) in lieu of an element that doesn't exist in the standard?
  73. # [09:31] <MikeSmith> yeah, that's part of the intent
  74. # [09:31] <GPHemsley> right, OK
  75. # [09:31] <GPHemsley> thanks
  76. # [09:31] <MikeSmith> but the semantics and style often go hand-in-hand
  77. # [09:31] <GPHemsley> well, yes and no
  78. # [09:32] <MikeSmith> that's why I qualified it with "often"..
  79. # [09:32] <GPHemsley> I mean, if something were fed a pure HTML5 document and was asked to extract the data, the styling wouldn't matter
  80. # [09:32] <MikeSmith> true that
  81. # [09:33] <MikeSmith> but on the other hand, if some part of you content means something different you often want to dislay it to users differently
  82. # [09:33] <GPHemsley> and, in that case, <var> and <span class="expression"> (for example) would hold the same weight, correct?
  83. # [09:33] <MikeSmith> no, I don't think so
  84. # [09:33] <MikeSmith> <var> has a standard, documented meaning
  85. # [09:34] <MikeSmith> class="expression" means whatever you choose it to mean, and nobody else can know for sure what you mean by it
  86. # [09:34] <GPHemsley> well, assume that the meaning of each class was documented and used standardly
  87. # [09:34] <MikeSmith> OK
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  89. # [09:35] <MikeSmith> also, all that said, you could also misuse <var> in a way that's at odd with with its standard meaning
  90. # [09:35] <GPHemsley> right
  91. # [09:36] <GPHemsley> this situation, however, assumes that whatever is doing the processing knows what everything means and expects everything to be used as defined
  92. # [09:36] <GPHemsley> so it expects <var> to be used correctly
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  94. # [09:37] <GPHemsley> (and also <span class="expression">)
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  96. # [09:40] <GPHemsley> ...you can't nest <span>s?
  97. # [09:42] <GPHemsley> or Firefox can't... o_0
  98. # [09:49] <GPHemsley> oh, nope, my mistake
  99. # [09:49] * GPHemsley is an idiot
  100. # [09:53] <GPHemsley> (overzealous find and replace)
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  107. # [10:57] <gsnedders> Weee… Opera 10.50 pre-alpha shipped.
  108. # [10:57] <gsnedders> </mindlessspam>
  109. # [11:03] <erlehmann> gsnedders, AV-enabled?
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  113. # [11:09] <gsnedders> erlehmann: Coming soon
  114. # [11:10] * erlehmann needs more theora. :3
  115. # [11:10] <doublec> gsnedders, new JS engine looks interesting :)
  116. # [11:10] <gsnedders> doublec: Of course, it's what I've been working on ;P
  117. # [11:11] <doublec> haha, nice. I'm hearing good stuff about it on reddit and places
  118. # [11:11] <doublec> i'll have to try my 8080 emulator on it
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  123. # [11:44] <hsivonen> Does Opera give any hints on what sort of general approach or techniques they used in the new JS engine?
  124. # [11:46] <Rik`> hsivonen: http://my.opera.com/core/blog/2009/02/04/carakan ?
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  126. # [11:46] <hsivonen> Rik`: thanks
  127. # [11:47] * hsivonen wonders if Opera still intends to keep Futhark around for small devices
  128. # [11:48] <Philip`> hsivonen: http://my.opera.com/core/blog/2009/12/22/carakan-revisited
  129. # [11:48] <hsivonen> thanks
  130. # [11:50] <jgraham> doublec: iirc your 8080 emulator claims that we don't support canvas
  131. # [11:50] <jgraham> (so it would be nice if you would fix that :)
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  134. # [11:55] <jgraham> BTW if anyone is playing with the labs build and finds a site that breaks in a likely-javascript related way and doesn't want to file a bug for some reason (e.g. laziness), please let gsnedders or I know
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  139. # [12:25] <Philip`> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/337 - Opera 10.50 seems quite nicely fast at that
  140. # [12:26] <Philip`> (I get about 14 million ints/sec, vs about 2 M/sec in Firefox 3.5, and approximately zero in Opera 10.10)
  141. # [12:29] <gsnedders> (Though with holidays I dunno how we'll be around)
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  143. # [12:44] <doublec> jgraham: I detect for createImageData and display the message if it doesn't exist
  144. # [12:44] <doublec> jgraham: does Opera not support it?
  145. # [12:44] <gsnedders> doublec: It does
  146. # [12:44] <doublec> odd -I wonder why it fails
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  149. # [12:55] <Lachy> The announcement for Selectors API being published as CR should come out some time later today
  150. # [12:55] <doublec> gsnedders: document.getElementById('screen').getContext('2d').createImageData is undefined
  151. # [12:56] <doublec> gsnedders: that's why the 8080 emulator is not running
  152. # [12:57] <doublec> gsnedders: tested in 10.50 pre-alpha using the js command line
  153. # [12:57] <doublec> gsnedders: 'screen' is a <canvas id='screen'>
  154. # [12:58] <gsnedders> doublec: Does it work in 10.10?
  155. # [12:58] <doublec> gsnedders: I'll check
  156. # [12:58] <gsnedders> doublec: Or does it work with JIT disabled?
  157. # [12:58] <gsnedders> That seems really like a normal JIT bug :)
  158. # [12:59] <gsnedders> (Namely, random things being undefined)
  159. # [12:59] <doublec> gsnedders: how do I disable the jit?
  160. # [12:59] <gsnedders> doublec: opera:config, search for JIT
  161. # [13:05] <doublec> gsnedders: doesn't work in 10.10 either
  162. # [13:05] <doublec> gsnedders: on 10.5 with jit disabled same issue
  163. # [13:05] <gsnedders> doublec: Link to the page?
  164. # [13:05] <doublec> gsnedders: http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/js8080/
  165. # [13:06] <gsnedders> Oh, apparently we don't sup[port it.
  166. # [13:06] <gsnedders> *support
  167. # [13:07] <doublec> that'll be it then :)
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  171. # [13:13] <erlehmann> gsnedders, what in-joke is that with the power plants mentioned in the caveat?
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  173. # [13:14] <gsnedders> huh?
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  188. # [14:23] <gsnedders> First reply from uni application! A rejection!
  189. # [14:23] <gsnedders> (I suck at CS.)
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  276. # [20:11] <nirvdrum> Hi. Is the validator.nu validator known to be broken in trunk? I'm get a ClassCastException when running it and before I spend too much time tracking it down, wanted to make sure others weren't already aware of it.
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  278. # [20:17] <nirvdrum> Hmm . . . I found IRC logs highlighting the same issue going back to May.
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  296. # [20:31] <nirvdrum> Alright. If I run "all" a second time, it works.
  297. # [20:31] <nirvdrum> Repeatable, too.
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  299. # [20:52] <jgraham> gsnedders: s'ton?
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  309. # [21:36] <hsivonen> nirvdrum: try rerunning python build.py localent
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  311. # [21:38] <nirvdrum> hsivonen: I hadn't run localent explicitly at all. I just ran the "all" target. Re-running that fixes the problem.
  312. # [21:39] <nirvdrum> I'll see if "localent" after "all" fixes it, too, but it might be hard to tell.
  313. # [21:41] <nirvdrum> hsivonen: I don't suppose there's any way to build a WAR out of this, is there?
  314. # [21:41] <hsivonen> nirvdrum: there isn't, because I haven't needed a WAR
  315. # [21:42] <nirvdrum> I couldn't quite work out how you were serving out of jetty. Where is the web context being set up?
  316. # [21:43] <hsivonen> Main.java
  317. # [21:43] <hsivonen> in the validator svn repo
  318. # [21:43] <hsivonen> afk
  319. # [21:44] <nirvdrum> So, I guess I could write something to unpack the validator JAR and set up the WAR structure, adding in the dependencies to WEB-INF/lib.
  320. # [21:46] <nirvdrum> It'd just be handy to have a WAR because I'm already running Jetty and the CSS validator on the same machine.
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  322. # [21:47] <nirvdrum> hsivonen: My other question is if I run it with th "run" target, how do you recommend detaching from the tty and capturing the pid? I could do it with nohup and some bash incantation, but I'd assume there's a cleaner way.
  323. # [21:57] <nirvdrum> hsivonen: all => localent => run still induces the CCE.
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The end :)