/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2010-04-03 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Apr 03 00:00:01 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:00] <JonathanNeal> And http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087182/quotes#qt0328198
  4. # [00:00] <JonathanNeal> And it was Paul ... there was no resisting.
  5. # [00:01] * MikeSmith wonders what a "mouse locking feature" is and why WebGL-based Quake2 implementation would highlight the need for one
  6. # [00:02] <Philip`> MikeSmith: You should be able to spin around by moving your mouse rightwards a lot
  7. # [00:02] <Philip`> for a longer distance than the width of your screen
  8. # [00:02] * Quits: crash\ (crash@lubyte.de) (Quit: http://www.lubyte.de/)
  9. # [00:03] <Philip`> without the mouse leaving the web page window and stopping controlling the game
  10. # [00:03] <MikeSmith> I see
  11. # [00:03] <MikeSmith> isn't this what joysticks are for?
  12. # [00:04] <AryehGregor> Because joysticks are much better supported by the web platform, right?
  13. # [00:04] <MikeSmith> heh
  14. # [00:04] <tabatkins> Do you own a joystick that works with your computer, MikeSmith?
  15. # [00:04] <AryehGregor> (and no, no one uses joysticks for FPSes on the PC, only for flight sims or something)
  16. # [00:05] <MikeSmith> tabatkins: I don't own any joystick at all
  17. # [00:05] <MikeSmith> unless you meant the question figuratively
  18. # [00:05] <Philip`> I own two dead joysticks
  19. # [00:05] <Philip`> I think the modern term you want is "joypads" or "gamepads" or whatever
  20. # [00:06] <Philip`> which people are more likely to own
  21. # [00:06] <Philip`> but they don't exactly work on the web either
  22. # [00:06] <divya> A question, In CSS3 the display property refers to block/inline elements http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-layout/#declaring-templates-the-display-property but HTML5 does not define block/inline elements. Is there something I am missing?
  23. # [00:06] <Philip`> and they're rubbish compared to mouse+keyboard for FPSes anyway
  24. # [00:07] <tabatkins> divya: In terms of CSS, a block/inline element is one which has display:block/inline set on it in the default UA stylesheet.
  25. # [00:07] <AryehGregor> divya, look in the rendering section.
  26. # [00:07] <AryehGregor> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/rendering.html#rendering
  27. # [00:08] * Joins: crash\ (crash@lubyte.de)
  28. # [00:08] <divya> tabatkins: so does this mean display no longer alters the "content model" of an element?
  29. # [00:08] <Hixie> a block/inline element in CSS is one which has display:block/inline as its computed value, not necessarily in the UA style sheet
  30. # [00:08] <Hixie> divya: it never did
  31. # [00:09] <tabatkins> Hixie is more correct than I was. I was referring to what elements were by default.
  32. # [00:10] <Hixie> technically even its _used_ style, not computed style, though i think with 'display' they're always the same
  33. # [00:10] <Hixie> (or does 'position' not affect the computed style?)
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  35. # [00:11] <Hixie> an element with display:inline;position:absolute is block-level
  36. # [00:11] <Hixie> ok yeah for such an element the computed value is 'block'
  37. # [00:11] <Hixie> so yes, computed value
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  44. # [00:13] <divya> Hixie: I was under the illusion display can alter the content model because of this sentence in the HTML4.01 spec http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#h-7.5.3 "Style sheets provide the means to specify the rendering of arbitrary elements, including whether an element is rendered as block or inline. "
  45. # [00:13] <tabatkins> Rendered as a block or inline, yes. That doesn't change what kind of elements are legal to put inside of it, though.
  46. # [00:14] <Hixie> divya: yeah, that confusion is why i stopped using "block" and "inline" in html5
  47. # [00:14] <Hixie> it confused a lot of people
  48. # [00:14] <Hixie> you're not alone, by a long shot :-)
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  50. # [00:15] <divya> Hixie: thanks, that is a comfort :)
  51. # [00:15] <Hixie> :-)
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  53. # [00:16] <divya> so in a sense display:inline/block are legacy CSS syntaxes with no real-world relationship with the elements?
  54. # [00:17] <tabatkins> I'm not sure what you mean by "legacy" or "real-world" there. CSS has no interaction with what's legal or illegal in HTML.
  55. # [00:17] <Hixie> that's not how i would put it
  56. # [00:17] <Hixie> i'd just say display:inline/block conrtol the rendering
  57. # [00:17] <Hixie> and that's all :-)
  58. # [00:17] <divya> ok that makes sense :)
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  63. # [00:18] <divya> (I think it is hard for me to not get confused between css inline/block and html4 inline/block)
  64. # [00:18] <tabatkins> Easiest is to probably just ignore the HTML4 definitions entirely. ^_^
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  66. # [00:19] <divya> tabatkins: :)
  67. # [00:19] <AryehGregor> I bet that's why HTML5 doesn't use those terms to begin with.
  68. # [00:20] <divya> I wonder why not many people brought this up. :/
  69. # [00:20] <divya> (when they were writing their "Top Ten CSS Tricks" posts)
  70. # [00:21] <AryehGregor> Why would they bring it up?
  71. # [00:22] <divya> AryehGregor: It is confusing and deserves clarity. More than cool tricks that can be accomplished with display: inline/block
  72. # [00:22] <estellevw> i found the distinction of block, inline and flow very helpful to understanding the semantics of elements
  73. # [00:22] * Hixie has no idea what to do about character references that don't end with ;
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  79. # [00:22] <AryehGregor> Hixie, are they used too much to just be dropped?
  80. # [00:23] <Hixie> yes
  81. # [00:23] <Hixie> there are bugs that ask for various changes to the way they're parsed
  82. # [00:23] <Hixie> 9351, 9207
  83. # [00:23] <Hixie> or reported as errors
  84. # [00:23] <Hixie> 9352
  85. # [00:24] <Hixie> we could make unescaped & not be an error but leave charrefs that don't have a ; be an error, i guess
  86. # [00:24] <Hixie> so "?a=b&c=d" would be fine
  87. # [00:24] <GarethAdams|Home> how do you tell the difference?
  88. # [00:25] <Hixie> but "?apple=banana&copy=ditto" would be an error (since the &copy gets parsed in an unexpected way)
  89. # [00:25] <GarethAdams|Home> oh, so from the fixed list of known entities
  90. # [00:25] <Hixie> or we could make &copy= not be parsed as a char ref in attributes
  91. # [00:25] <Hixie> just like &copypasta already isn't
  92. # [00:25] * Joins: boblet (~boblet@p1072-ipbf36osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp)
  93. # [00:26] <Hixie> but that makes attributes even more different than content
  94. # [00:26] <tabatkins> Are we sure that char references without a trailing ; appear in attributes, especially @href and similar, often enough to cause a problem?
  95. # [00:26] * Joins: erikvold (~erikvold@S01060024012860e9.gv.shawcable.net)
  96. # [00:26] <Hixie> tabatkins: cause problems in which direction?
  97. # [00:26] <tabatkins> In the direction of, if we make them not parse as entities, links will break.
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  99. # [00:27] <Hixie> tabatkins: i expect there are plenty of pages that say "?foo=bar&copy=ditto" and are broken, and i expect there are plenty of pages that say "this file &copy 2010 by me" and expect it to be an entity.
  100. # [00:27] <tabatkins> Sure.
  101. # [00:27] <Hixie> the latter is even valid in ghtml4
  102. # [00:27] <Hixie> s/g//
  103. # [00:28] <Hixie> so yes, things will break if we change anything, and things are broken if we don't change anything
  104. # [00:28] <tabatkins> I think I'm fine with attributes being different from content here.
  105. # [00:28] <Hixie> i'm only talking about attributes here
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  108. # [00:29] <Hixie> they're already different than content, so that ship has sailed -- teh question is whether we can keep that to a minimum, so that people moving stuff in and out of attributes don't get screwed
  109. # [00:29] <Hixie> i'd really like to make any valid content in one have the same meaning in the other
  110. # [00:29] <Hixie> invalid content is less of an issue
  111. # [00:30] <tabatkins> I'd like links to be easy to author, and not have to worry about the names of my query paramaters.
  112. # [00:30] <AryehGregor> It's too bad we can't just make &copy equivalent to &amp;copy in content as well.
  113. # [00:30] <AryehGregor> But the extra difference between content and attributes seems like the lesser evil here.
  114. # [00:30] <AryehGregor> It's not like it should come up very often in practice.
  115. # [00:31] <AryehGregor> You could make "&copy" and such raise a warning or error if used in content.
  116. # [00:31] <tabatkins> It would be interesting to try and see how much outcry there is (try making entities require a ;, and allow unescaped & otherwise).
  117. # [00:31] <AryehGregor> Yeah, I wonder if implementers would do that. How many pages are we talking about? It wouldn't be huge breakage in any case, if it's largely in copyright boilerplate then most users probably won't even notice.
  118. # [00:32] <AryehGregor> (even if they view an affected page)
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  120. # [00:32] * AryehGregor wonders why tabatkins has decapitalized himself
  121. # [00:32] <tabatkins> Indeed.
  122. # [00:32] * Joins: pablof (~palbo@pat-tdc.opera.com)
  123. # [00:32] <Hixie> we're talking billions of pages here
  124. # [00:32] <tabatkins> Eh, accidental. irssi is taking my account name from linux, and I'm not bothering to correct it.
  125. # [00:32] <Hixie> AryehGregor: it would be a disaster in non-english locales
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  127. # [00:33] <AryehGregor> Oh well.
  128. # [00:33] <Hixie> e.g. &egrave is one of these entities
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  130. # [00:35] <Hixie> suggests the simplest option to improve compatibility on the web is to make = make these entities not get replaced
  131. # [00:35] <Hixie> er, http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9207#c5 suggests
  132. # [00:35] <tabatkins> = and _, apparently.
  133. # [00:35] <AryehGregor> That sounds like a clever solution.
  134. # [00:35] <Hixie> _ was not quite as clear
  135. # [00:37] <Hixie> ok let's add = and then reexamine the conformance problem.
  136. # [00:38] * tabatkins is now known as TabAtkins
  137. # [00:39] <Hixie> i suppose i could make &foo= be not a parse error in attributes, but otherwise leave these rules alone
  138. # [00:39] <Hixie> or i could just make all &foo that don't match an entity be not parse errors
  139. # [00:40] <Hixie> the latter seems simpler, though it would lead to authors never bothering to escape their &s, which could get them in trouble if they accidentally walk into &amp;s
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  142. # [00:46] <Hixie> this would make &foo; (where "foo" isn't anything known) into _not_ an error...
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  144. # [00:50] <dglazkov> Hixie: I demand a recount
  145. # [00:50] <dglazkov> :)
  146. # [00:51] <dglazkov> can you point me to the place where the spec says that if the size of select is >1, multiple is not set, and no options have selectedness set to true, we shouldn't mark any item as selected?
  147. # [00:53] <Hixie> no, because the spec doesn't say that :-)
  148. # [00:53] <Hixie> "If the multiple attribute is absent, whenever there are no option elements in the select element's list of options that have their selectedness set to true, the user agent must set the selectedness of the first option element in the list of options in tree order that is not disabled, if any, to true."
  149. # [00:53] <dglazkov> but all browser that I know of do it.
  150. # [00:53] <Hixie> do what?
  151. # [00:53] <dglazkov> not select if size > 1
  152. # [00:54] <dglazkov> annevk told me to do the comment thingy
  153. # [00:54] <dglazkov> should I go ahead and do it?
  154. # [00:55] <Hixie> how weird
  155. # [00:56] <Hixie> why would size="" have any effect on this?
  156. # [00:56] <Hixie> please do file a bug
  157. # [00:56] <Hixie> it's an easy fix
  158. # [00:56] <Hixie> i wonder why browsers act like this
  159. # [00:58] <othermaciej> Hixie, dglazkov: I suspect the browser rule is "if it renders as a pop-up menu select the first item, if it renders as a listbox, don't select anything"
  160. # [00:58] <othermaciej> because listboxes have a reasonable "nothing selected" state
  161. # [00:58] <dglazkov> othermaciej: yes, something like that
  162. # [00:58] <othermaciej> that would be why size= has an effect
  163. # [00:58] <dglazkov> but if you change the size from X to 1 and then back to X (X>1), you'll have a selected element.
  164. # [00:59] <othermaciej> sure, because size changes don't cause the selected element to be deselected
  165. # [00:59] <dglazkov> but they do cause the element to be selected :)
  166. # [00:59] <othermaciej> and browsers don't keep track of whether something got selected by default
  167. # [00:59] <dglazkov> yep
  168. # [00:59] * dglazkov is writing a layout test for that
  169. # [00:59] <othermaciej> yes, if you enter the "must have a selection" state (no multiple or size > 1), then an item gets default-selected
  170. # [01:00] <othermaciej> but when you leave that state, nothing gets deselected
  171. # [01:00] <othermaciej> seems logical to me, at least to the extent one can expect logic of the Web platform
  172. # [01:02] <Hixie> i guess it makes sense given visual UAs using different widgets and how single-select list boxes can have an (normally unreachable) no-selection state
  173. # [01:02] <Hixie> doesn't make much sense from an abstract point of view though
  174. # [01:08] <othermaciej> Hixie: it's not unreachable (at least on Mac)
  175. # [01:08] <othermaciej> you can always cmd-click the selected item to deselect it
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  177. # [01:11] <Hixie> othermaciej: wow, so you can
  178. # [01:11] <Hixie> i had no idea
  179. # [01:15] * othermaciej thought it was obvious from the way cmd-click normally works in lists...
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  181. # [01:24] <TabAtkins> Does it break some notion of semantics somewhere for a document to not have a location?
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  183. # [01:25] <othermaciej> that question is too abstract for me to understand it
  184. # [01:25] <TabAtkins> The context is an intended-to-be-ephemeral document created by a page, with a location that is only valid until the creating page is trashed. I think you can navigate to that url fine (by the time the document is trashed and the url becomes meaningless, the navigation action is already moving). But what does document.location then return in the new doc?
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  188. # [01:27] <Hixie> TabAtkins: is this a doc created by document.open(), createDocument(), XHR, window.open(), navigating to a File API URL, a Stream URL, or something else?
  189. # [01:27] <TabAtkins> Created by a FileWriter.
  190. # [01:28] <TabAtkins> Note: This isn't defined. We're asking what it *should* return, and if it's valid for it to have no location.
  191. # [01:28] <Hixie> wait, FileWriter returns a Document?
  192. # [01:28] <Hixie> you don't want to do that
  193. # [01:28] <Hixie> just have FileWriter use the same URL generation mechanism as the File API
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  195. # [01:29] <Hixie> looks like the recent bugzilla update broke my automatic scripts, i wonder if the whatwg bug submission thing still works even
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  197. # [01:29] <Hixie> oh christ it even broke my bookmarklets
  198. # [01:30] <TabAtkins> Hixie: That's already being used, but the url generated thusly is intended to be trashed/meaningless when the document that created it went away.
  199. # [01:30] <Hixie> bbiab, tgif
  200. # [01:30] <TabAtkins> So if you navigate the creating document to the url of the created document (assuming this makes sense), what's the location of the created document?
  201. # [01:33] <othermaciej> why would FileWriter return a Document if it's a writer, not a reader?
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  209. # [02:02] <JonathanNeal> Is sitemap a valid role in html5?
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  211. # [02:07] <othermaciej> JonathanNeal: is it a valid role in ARIA? if so, it's valid in HTML5
  212. # [02:09] <JonathanNeal> Guess not http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-aria-role-20071019/#roles
  213. # [02:10] <JonathanNeal> Or maybe this is more accurate / recent http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/roles#role_definitions
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  215. # [02:12] <othermaciej> JonathanNeal: I believe your second link is the most accurate
  216. # [02:12] <othermaciej> JonathanNeal: is the "navigation" role (or the HTML5 <nav> element) appropriate for what you are trying to do?
  217. # [02:13] <JonathanNeal> It is, but I get confused every now and again when I see an HTML5 blogpost use "breadcrumbs" or "sitemap"
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  219. # [02:13] <othermaciej> as a role?
  220. # [02:14] <JonathanNeal> yes, usually next to "navigation" on the ul.
  221. # [02:15] <JonathanNeal> Which is weird anyway, because nav has "navigation" inherently.
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  223. # [02:19] <webben> JonathanNeal: Don't think sitemap has ever been an ARIA role.
  224. # [02:19] <JonathanNeal> poor confused web designers out there.
  225. # [02:20] <webben> JonathanNeal: "breadcrumbs" used to be in the draft: http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-aria-role-20060926/
  226. # [02:22] <JonathanNeal> Yea ... I often try to convince folks that breadcrumbs shouldn't be a list.
  227. # [02:22] <JonathanNeal> Rather, a paragraph.
  228. # [02:23] <JonathanNeal> I think the spec has it that way.
  229. # [02:23] <JonathanNeal> And I saw it, thought it was odd, then thought about it, and thought it was neat.
  230. # [02:23] <TabAtkins> JonathanNeal: What's your reasoning? I do breadcrumbs as an <ol>.
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  236. # [02:43] <othermaciej> JonathanNeal: seems like it is semantically a list
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  249. # [04:16] <JonathanNeal> hi all
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  251. # [04:18] <JonathanNeal> We had a big company meeting and it was really engaging, sorry for neglecting to reply to you guys, TabAtkins and othermaciej.
  252. # [04:18] <othermaciej> JonathanNeal: no worries, I wasn't saying anything important
  253. # [04:19] <JonathanNeal> I think breadcrumbs can be either. I've pushed for them to be paragraphs because I think they can work as paragraphs too.
  254. # [04:21] <JonathanNeal> I can see how they would be ol, because they're part of a hierarchical structure.
  255. # [04:21] <JonathanNeal> That's actually the reason I had us change from <ul>'s to <p>'s.
  256. # [04:22] <JonathanNeal> My initial understanding was tha tI didn't think of <ol> and <ul> as accurately portraying a breadcrumb in a heirarchical manner.
  257. # [04:22] <othermaciej> well
  258. # [04:22] <othermaciej> you can think of it two ways:
  259. # [04:22] <othermaciej> 1) a nesting hierarchy
  260. # [04:23] <othermaciej> 2) an ordered list of the user's path through the site
  261. # [04:23] <othermaciej> in a way they are logically equivalent, because a list is a degenerate tree
  262. # [04:24] <JonathanNeal> I might hear you describing two types of breadcrumbs, the hansel and gretel style where it targets your journey, or a branch style where you see are in relationship to the site hierchy (which is how I see it)
  263. # [04:25] <JonathanNeal> I like the later, as I've stated, and I felt it worked excellent with the idea and example @ http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/links.html#hierarchical-link-types
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  267. # [04:52] <TabAtkins_> JonathanNeal: Yeah, no problem. Actually I use the latter style of breadcrumbs, where it shows the current path from the site root, but still believe <ol> is an appropriate tag for that.
  268. # [04:53] <Hixie> i think things are back in working order after the bugzilla upgrade
  269. # [04:53] <Hixie> but we'll see tomorrow
  270. # [04:54] <shepazutoo> Hixie: I think you pinged me last night when I was away?
  271. # [04:55] <Hixie> yeah, was going to ask you if you were aware of the plans for killing DOM Views, and if so, if you had plans for dealing with it in UIEvent
  272. # [04:55] <Hixie> i ended up just going with changing viewArg to dummyArg in the drag and drop event stuff, but i'll change it to whatever you end up deciding on
  273. # [04:56] <Hixie> gotta go right now though
  274. # [04:56] <Hixie> should be online tomorrow
  275. # [04:56] <shepazutoo> Hixie: ok, let's talk tomorrow
  276. # [04:56] <Hixie> k
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  284. # [06:06] <JonathanNeal> whos up!
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  290. # [06:36] <zcorpan> JonathanNeal: i accept patches (re http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20100402#l-471 )
  291. # [06:36] <JonathanNeal> reading
  292. # [06:36] <JonathanNeal> zcorpan, you're simon's html5 elements page?
  293. # [06:37] <zcorpan> yes
  294. # [06:37] <JonathanNeal> Then I will get to work immediately.
  295. # [06:37] <zcorpan> cool :)
  296. # [06:39] <JonathanNeal> Is there an even more multipage version of the html spec?
  297. # [06:39] <JonathanNeal> I want to make sure I'm not reinventing the wheel unnecessarily.
  298. # [06:39] <zcorpan> there's an index in the multipage spec
  299. # [06:40] <zcorpan> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/section-index.html#index
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  301. # [06:41] <zcorpan> i guess the table of contents also has all the elements listed
  302. # [06:42] <zcorpan> the toc is in the right order
  303. # [06:42] <zcorpan> i guess html5-elements' order is out of date
  304. # [06:42] <JonathanNeal> I just noticed that the html5 spec is written in the us language of hixie
  305. # [06:43] <zcorpan> it would be nice if i could generate html5-elements with a script that scrapes the spec
  306. # [06:44] <JonathanNeal> Well, it should be pretty easy with ajax.
  307. # [06:44] <JonathanNeal> It just means we'll need to host a local coy and fetch it via ajax.
  308. # [06:44] <JonathanNeal> Or curl it to proxy ajax.
  309. # [06:45] <zcorpan> generating it with javascript fails on the same-origin policy
  310. # [06:46] <zcorpan> could write a bookmarklet
  311. # [06:48] <zcorpan> actually a bookmarklet would not be a bad idea. would be easy to just appendChild()ing the right elements and getting innerHTML when you're done
  312. # [06:49] <zcorpan> the elements from the toc, and the attributes of each element from the index (loaded in an iframe)
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  314. # [07:09] <JonathanNeal> zcorpan, i don't get, how does the bookmarklet work?
  315. # [07:09] <JonathanNeal> It runs locally so how can it get the content?
  316. # [07:10] <zcorpan> you run it when having the html5 spec loaded
  317. # [07:11] <JonathanNeal> oh ...
  318. # [07:11] <JonathanNeal> Maybe it would be better if I just copied the parts I wanted from the spec into separate files :P
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  350. # [10:45] * zcorpan adds wbr and device to html5-elements
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  378. # [14:44] * gsnedders wonders what a graph of number of songs owned per artist against number of plays per artist would look like
  379. # [14:45] * gsnedders expects for him it'd be a line through the origin, more or less
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  389. # [15:29] <annevk> zcorpan, can't you just prefix the current links with http://www.whatwg.org/html
  390. # [15:29] <annevk> zcorpan, the automatic redirects should take care of the rest
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  408. # [16:37] <JonathanNeal> Goodmorning!
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  411. # [16:51] <annevk> certainly feels like morning
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  415. # [17:01] <annevk> shouldn't the spec explain how <wbr> is different from zero width whitespace?
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  434. # [18:32] <divya> is it right to say that there is no stable release of a browser with HTML5 parser?
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  436. # [18:33] <lazni> fx 3.6 has one, but disabled
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  438. # [18:34] <lazni> by default
  439. # [18:34] <divya> lazni: true, but was wondering if there were anything else I did not know about.
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  454. # [19:05] <Dashiva> Six different types of "conforming", I guess it'll be easy to adhere to at least one of them
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  458. # [19:10] <jgraham> I think I am losing my mind
  459. # [19:10] <Philip`> Present tense?
  460. # [19:11] <jgraham> What happened to the bit of the websockects protocol spec where it talks about constructing the random tokens?
  461. # [19:11] <jgraham> Philip`: Add the word "further" if that helps
  462. # [19:12] <Dashiva> Whoa, Shelley is riding the deletionist wave like a pro...
  463. # [19:12] <jgraham> Why does WAHTWG not publish a version of websockts in a sane format (i.e. HTML)
  464. # [19:13] <jgraham> and without a multitude of different versions
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  469. # [19:36] <Dashiva> Eating broccoli sure is fun :D
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  489. # [20:50] * Parts: divya (~divya@c-24-18-47-121.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  490. # [20:50] <Hixie> jgraham: complete.html has the websockets protocol in it
  491. # [20:52] * gsnedders wants a tiling window manager that actually behaves as he wants one to :P
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  494. # [21:02] <Hixie> gsnedders: ion?
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  499. # [21:11] <Philip`> gsnedders: Write your own
  500. # [21:11] <gsnedders> Philip`: That's my general feeling
  501. # [21:11] <gsnedders> Gah.
  502. # [21:11] <Philip`> based on xmonad
  503. # [21:12] <gsnedders> That means learning HAskell
  504. # [21:12] <gsnedders> *Haskell
  505. # [21:12] <Philip`> That makes it a doubly good option
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  511. # [21:47] <jgraham> Hixie: Yeah I realised that eventually
  512. # [21:47] <jgraham> We could do with a multipage complete.html though
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  514. # [21:48] * jgraham likes multipage when he knows exactly what he is looking for and the section is relatively self contained
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  517. # [21:52] <jgraham> gsnedders: Define "as you want one to"
  518. # [21:53] * jgraham tried xmonad for a while but found that it was very inconvenient when you wanted some unusual layout
  519. # [21:53] <jgraham> (so prefers the relatively simple solution of using compiz+the grid plugin)
  520. # [21:54] <jgraham> (but would like it if the grid plugin had more tiling-window-manager like features)
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  542. # [23:47] <Hixie> jgraham: i'd be up for that if someone sets up the multipage splitter in such a way that i can use it from the script
  543. # [23:48] * gsnedders is somewhat scared that he can go into an IRC channel he's never been in before, and have said to him from someone he's never heard of, "Hey Geoffrey! Nice to see you here!"
  544. # [23:49] <Hixie> i know the feeling
  545. # [23:49] <gsnedders> I mean, since when was I that well known on the intartubes?
  546. # [23:49] <Hixie> i usually reply "um, hi"
  547. # [23:49] <gsnedders> Yeah, my normal response too
  548. # [23:50] <gsnedders> Obviously your influence is wearing off on me :P
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  551. # [23:55] <jgraham> Philip`: Can you do whatever needs to be done with the multipage splitter?
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  553. # Session Close: Sun Apr 04 00:00:00 2010

The end :)