/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2010-07-05 / end

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# Session Start: Mon Jul 05 00:00:00 2010
# Session Ident: #whatwg
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# [02:16] <MikeSmith> is there an online tool for checking that background colors conform to WCAG recommendations?
# [02:17] <Rik`> MikeSmith: you mean for contrast ?
# [02:17] <MikeSmith> Rik`: yeah
# [02:17] <Rik`> http://snook.ca/technical/colour_contrast/colour.html
# [02:18] <Rik`> this one gives you the HP and WCAG2 rules
# [02:18] <MikeSmith> Rik`: cool, thanks
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# [03:58] <nessy> Hixie: you finished the WebSRT section!?
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# [04:00] <nessy> now I am curious how to do styling, such as background color and general font settings etc
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# [04:03] <MikeSmith> yoshiaki: if the dudes you're meeting with have any specific questions I can help with, lemme know
# [04:04] <MikeSmith> not trying to be rude, but don't think I need to be there for the whole meeting
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# [04:14] <MikeSmith> http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1376#c4
# [04:14] <MikeSmith> <DmitryBaranovsk> “We have chosen intentionally to not support SVG in the browser to save space; full SVG adds over 1M to the webkit image size.” No comments.
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# [04:16] <boblet> MikeSmith: one of the most bone-headed decisions they made
# [04:17] <MikeSmith> a disappointing one, at the very least
# [04:18] <MikeSmith> for better or worse, SVG has become a de facto piece of the Web platform
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# [04:19] <boblet> given current high-dpi mobile developments, not having SVG is downright annoying
# [04:20] <MikeSmith> to see a browser team unilaterally choosing to omit key pieces of the Web platform from particular OSes/platforms is really disappointing
# [04:22] <boblet> especially one that would have saved me a lot of work :/
# [04:23] <aho> ff4 will finally support svg as img's src or as background-image
# [04:24] <aho> opera did support that since ages and chrome/chromium also supports it for a while now
# [04:24] <MikeSmith> boblet: I could somewhat understand disabling some things on non-smartphone devices that don't have adequate resources
# [04:25] <aho> and then i can finally get rid of those stupid object tags
# [04:25] <MikeSmith> boblet: but I wonder which devices, exactly, are the ones that they are shipping Android on that don't have adequate resources
# [04:25] <MikeSmith> boblet: certainly I would think the HTC devices have adequate resources for it
# [04:26] <MikeSmith> here's hoping for ChromeOS mobile
# [04:27] <Hixie> nessy: still have to do the rendering rules for it, and the DOM API, and a few minor other things
# [04:28] <MikeSmith> I can imagine the argument being made that if a user has a device that doesn't have enough resources for handling SVG, then it's unlikely the user trying to browse the Web on that device is going to have a very adequate user experience anyway
# [04:28] <nessy> Hixie: have you thought about adding styling by reusing CSS?
# [04:28] * nessy doesn't remember if we had that discussion
# [04:28] <Hixie> nessy: yeah it'll be CSS-based
# [04:29] <nessy> through a link at the top or something? curious to see an example
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# [04:29] <MikeSmith> boblet: because such a device would likely like have adequate resources for handling AJAXy sites that make much use of Javascript
# [04:30] <boblet> MikeSmith: like I said, boneheaded. bah
# [04:30] <boblet> in the absence of foolip can anyone tell me how I’d add microdatajs to a page and generate “download this vcard/ical” links?
# [04:33] <MikeSmith> boblet: yeah, blech.. like God does in Revelations 3:16 "So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth"
# [04:33] <MikeSmith> spue spue
# [04:34] <boblet> MikeSmith: aah, i needed spue.js huh ;)
# [04:34] <boblet> I see your spue and raise you bah humbug
# [04:34] <MikeSmith> heh
# [04:35] <boblet> for a nested microdata item, does the parent property have the value of all contained text, or only act as a pointer for the nested name-value pair?
# [04:35] <MikeSmith> Hixie: fwiw, I added per-element "Microdata property value" subsections to my markup ref
# [04:35] <MikeSmith> e.g., http://dev.w3.org/html5/markup/object.html#object-microdata
# [04:35] <Hixie> i saw
# [04:35] <Hixie> looks good
# [04:36] <Hixie> dunno how you'll explain it to people who think microdata isn't in html :-)
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# [04:36] <Hixie> nessy: using the style sheets in the HTML file
# [04:36] <boblet> e.g. for this code sample:
# [04:36] <boblet> The Salter Cane drummer is Jamie Freeman.
# [04:36] <nessy> so no reference in the websrt file itself?
# [04:37] <Hixie> nessy: if it takes off we can add something to the srt file, dunno if it's really necessary though
# [04:37] <boblet> is members equal to Jamie Freeman, the property name with the value Jamie Freeman, or both?
# [04:37] <Hixie> nessy: i'd imagine most of the styling will be for web authors trying to make their subs fit their site
# [04:37] <Hixie> nessy: most of the time, subtitles on dvds and the like aren't styled at all
# [04:37] <nessy> Hixie: makes for little reusability, I guess
# [04:38] <Hixie> styles aren't often reused anyway
# [04:38] <nessy> Hixie: yeah, that's the current state of tech - I was hoping we can get something more powerful for the web ;)
# [04:38] <Hixie> well for the web we'll have css :-)
# [04:38] <nessy> Hixie: and thus also for the media players
# [04:38] <nessy> yeah :)
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# [04:39] <nessy> I'm thinking css features will increasingly be able to be rendered in media players
# [04:39] <nessy> that's part of "taking off" I guess
# [04:50] <nessy> Hixie: did you describe the full spec as at http://damowmow.com/temp/srtspec ?
# [04:51] <nessy> ah, don't worry - I was confused - I wondered if you missed the D, L, T, S etc spec - but it's there
# [05:01] <yoshiaki> MikeSmith, thank you for your kind!
# [05:01] <MikeSmith> hai
# [05:04] <MikeSmith> paul_irish: html5rocks.com could maybe use a feed
# [05:05] <MikeSmith> for teh "Latest additions" part
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# [05:22] <MikeSmith> somebody may want to point out to Ben Schwarz on the whatwg mailing list that the value of the rel attribute is a space-separated list of values
# [05:22] <MikeSmith> so his <a rel="prefetch next">Next page</a> example is valid
# [05:22] <MikeSmith> http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/links.html#attr-hyperlink-rel
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# [06:33] <MikeSmith> hmm, maybe also point out that "prefetch" is not allowed link type for <a> anyway...
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# [07:36] <MikeSmith> there's no way to selectively apply character formatting to individual words in a string of CSS generated text, right?
# [07:36] <MikeSmith> I mean, in the value of a CSS "content: " property
# [07:37] <MikeSmith> boblet: ↑ ?
# [07:37] <MikeSmith> I want to prepend the text "The following example is invalid."
# [07:37] <MikeSmith> and I want just the word "invalid" to be bold
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# [08:52] * Slaanesh ponders MikeSmith's question
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# [08:57] <Slaanesh> I think the answer was that there's no ::first-word
# [08:57] <Slaanesh> And no other selectors on the word level either
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# [09:23] <FastJack> heh, and no nth-word? ;)
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# [10:38] <boblet> mikesmith: you want css3-content with p:before {content:"invalid";font-weight:bold;} p:before(2) {content:"This is ";}. unfortunately browsers do not love you.
# [10:40] <asmodai> hsivonen: Is that 3.6.7 a beta or not?
# [10:40] <boblet> mikesmith: you could add 2nd :before on a nested or parent element if there’s a convenient one, otherwise the super-fugly hack would be p::after {content:"This is ";float:left;margin-right:.3em;}
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# [10:43] <boblet> mikesmith: check chat log — just replied
# [10:43] <MikeSmith> k
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# [11:04] <boblet> bbl
# [11:04] <boblet> oh anyone know when foolip will be around?
# [11:05] <boblet> (guessing he’s off enjoying RL or something atm)
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# [11:08] <nielsle> If browsers get full screen html5 capability, how easy will it be to create a page that looks like a login screen and steal peoples passwords?
# [11:10] <kennyluck> lol
# [11:11] <annevk> nielsle, there will be keyboard restrictions
# [11:15] <nielsle> So in order to make a fully canvas based solution then I need to write some javascript that reads which key people are pressing at a given type, and write the corresponding "*" in the correct area of the canvas.
# [11:16] <nielsle> type -> time
# [11:16] <annevk> well you cannot, because there are keyboard restrictions
# [11:17] <nessy> like going into TV remote control mode? ;)
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# [11:23] <MikeSmith> nielsle: there's recently been on a long discussion on the whatwg mailing list about how to make full-screen video secure
# [11:23] <MikeSmith> dunno if you saw that yet or not
# [11:25] <nielsle> I am googling for it :)
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# [11:32] <nielsle> Ah, here it is. Thank you for the answers. I feel safer on the internet now. http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.org.w3c.whatwg.discuss/24221/focus=24271
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# [12:20] <Philip`> jgraham: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment_and_arts/10507286.stm may be relevant to your interests
# [12:21] <Philip`> (if you haven't seen it already)
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# [13:45] <gsnedders> jgraham: We have Jeppe to replace you, FYI.
# [13:45] <gsnedders> (for fika)
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# [14:06] <remysharp> I might be missing something here, but any ideas every browser renders a canvas 1px width line as 2px? example: http://jsbin.com/apeti3/3
# [14:06] <remysharp> (sorry - I said every - I've not checked IE9pre3 yet)
# [14:08] <Peter`> Looks like the browser is trying to render it between the two pixels and thus applies anti-aliasing
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# [14:11] <annevk> yeah, iirc lines are drawn from the middle point
# [14:11] <Peter`> If you move the line to 10.5x10.5 instead of 10x10 it's perfectly sharp
# [14:11] <annevk> or you could use rectangles, though that may be slower
# [14:12] <remysharp> Peter`: blimey - who knew!
# [14:12] <remysharp> cheers for the tip
# [14:14] <Peter`> No problem :)
# [14:15] <annevk> the spec prolly ought to define it
# [14:19] <Peter`> 11 replies on Twitter, two here, hmmmm
# [14:20] <remysharp> Peter`: I'm never sure how quick replies come in on #whatwg :-)
# [14:20] <remysharp> it makes for a good backup :)
# [14:22] <Peter`> Indeed :-)
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# [14:34] <boblet> remysharp: IRC is good for those of us without thousands of groupies :P
# [14:36] <remysharp> boblet: groupies help ;-)
# [14:37] <boblet> remysharp: lucky for some — none of the bots and spammers following me help much :)
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# [14:41] <annevk> remysharp, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Jul/0040.html
# [14:42] <remysharp> annevk: not mine I'm afraid to say (if that was your intent)
# [14:43] <annevk> oh, I thought you were behind html5rocks
# [14:43] <remysharp> annevk: nah, html5demos - hence the ugly grey :)
# [14:43] <boblet> annevk: that’s Chrome dev team, paul_irish is one contact
# [14:43] <annevk> ah okay
# [14:43] <remysharp> Paul Irisi might be a starting point
# [14:43] <annevk> it doesn't really matter
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# [14:45] <boblet> annevk: it’s all in svn and you can add patches to comments in the Google Code repo
# [14:46] <boblet> and file bugs. there was already a bug for transition examples being webkit only, but I already submitted patches for most of them
# [14:46] <annevk> good good; it seems we need to change the specification and Opera to match WebKit
# [14:48] <boblet> annevk: http://code.google.com/p/html5-slides/issues/detail?id=20&can=1&q=css
# [14:48] <boblet> your issue is different tho so file a new issue
# [14:52] <Philip`> remysharp: http://diveintohtml5.org/canvas.html#pixel-madness
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# [14:52] <remysharp> Philip`: damn that man, I didn't cover any of that madness in Bruce and my book!
# [14:52] <remysharp> well - at least it's a bit of proof that we didn't read his book first :D
# [14:53] <boblet> tehehe
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# [15:00] <Philip`> remysharp: If I remember correctly, he didn't cover it either, until I pointed out why the lines in his examples were all fuzzy :-)
# [15:00] <boblet> the advantage of writing in the open :)
# [15:00] <boblet> (not that I am)
# [15:00] <remysharp> Philip`: absolutely the advantage of an online book. Bruce and I wanted to something similar, but our publishers weren't game :(
# [15:02] <annevk> can't you just write and then find a publisher later?
# [15:02] * Philip` would be happy to review offline books too, in exchange for vast quantities of money :-p
# [15:03] <boblet> remysharp: I wanted to do the book as a website then generate the print copy via print styles. naive fool that I was
# [15:03] <boblet> (that’s why oli.jp is quite reminiscent of print)
# [15:04] <Philip`> Would publishers prefer you to do the book as a website then copy-and-paste into Word before they edit and print it?
# [15:04] <boblet> Philip`: would you like to read about microdata? ;)
# [15:05] <Philip`> boblet: Unfortunately I know very little about that
# [15:05] * zcorpan_ is happy to review html5 books
# [15:05] <boblet> Philip`: publishers prefer you use their shitty-ass MS Word templates right from the start
# [15:06] * boblet was rather depressed to discover his website had better typography than a professional publisher did
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# [15:09] <boblet> I actually wanted to have an online version of the book be part of the purchase price
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# [15:11] <boblet> publishers are just as prehistoric as record labels and movie studios sadly (well apart from a couple of indy exceptions which already have HTML5 books coming out)
# [15:11] <Philip`> Do people still make books with CDs inside the back cover?
# [15:11] <Philip`> You could put the web site content onto that
# [15:12] <Philip`> (That would be entirely missing the point of the web, but it'd be better than nothing)
# [15:14] <boblet> Philip`: nah they have code snippet sites. but it’d be much better to have a website that you could then store locally, copy&paste from, access on a bunch of devices etc
# [15:14] <boblet> (as in a website with the full content of the book)
# [15:15] <annevk> so why seek out a publisher that prevents that?
# [15:15] * annevk still doesn't quite get it
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# [15:15] <annevk> is there more money to be made or so if you give in freedom?
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# [15:36] <boblet> annevk: in my case I’m not famous, so it’s selling my soul for the cred that comes with being published
# [15:36] <boblet> sad but true
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# [15:37] <boblet> I suspect the current model will be in crisis in a couple of years as Five Simple Steps and A Book Apart start to steal all the good authors
# [15:38] <boblet> and other indy publishers, self-publishing etc
# [15:38] <boblet> so re: microdata “Properties can also have values that are URLs. This is achieved using the a element and its href attribute, the img element and its src attribute, or other elements that link to or embed external resources”
# [15:38] <boblet> why doesn’t mpilgrim have script in his list?
# [15:39] <boblet> http://diveintohtml5.org/extensibility.html#property-values
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# [15:47] <zcorpan_> because script is not listed in http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/complete/microdata.html#values
# [15:48] <zcorpan_> "The URL property elements are the a, area, audio, embed, iframe, img, link, object, source, and video elements."
# [15:48] <boblet> zcorpan_: aah, I didn’t check the encoding part. d’oh
# [15:48] <boblet> thanks
# [15:57] <annevk> boblet, there's just as much cred for publishing online, no?
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# [15:58] <annevk> boblet, if not more as it makes it much easier to see if your stuff is actually legit :)
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# [15:59] <boblet> annevk: I think you need to have some level of network first. there’s also the … monetisation issue
# [16:00] <boblet> (not that publishing traditionally makes any money unless you have a bazillion reprints)
# [16:00] <boblet> that’s what I have been doing too with my weblog and html5doctor :)
# [16:01] * boblet wonders if his lack of network is due to his stuff not being legit
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# [16:09] <boblet> (psst that was everyone’s chance to say “no, no! your stuff is great!” btw :P )
# [16:13] <Dashiva^2> I think they stumbled on your use of 'legit'
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# [16:15] <akamike> Dr boblet your incisions are of the highest quality and i have never seen a man attempt 3 double bypasses at the same time
# [16:15] <akamike> and succeed...
# [16:15] <annevk> boblet, a book is different from a couple of blog posts, but maybe indeed you are not legit :p
# [16:15] <Workshiva> As dual-classed ranger/ranger I can dual wield my dual wield
# [16:18] <boblet> akamike: you are a scholar and a gentleman
# [16:18] <boblet> (the rest of you rabble on the other hand… :P )
# [16:18] <boblet> hehe
# [16:19] <boblet> here’s hoping I climb the mountain, indeed
# [16:19] <boblet> bbl
# [16:24] <zcorpan_> Philip`: i get a fraud warning in opera for philip.html5.org :)
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# [16:26] <annevk> wow
# [16:26] <annevk> quite the bug
# [16:27] <Peter`> remysharp: I think your Tron mmo uses an outdated version of WebSocket, it's missing the 'sec-websocket-origin' header
# [16:27] <remysharp> Peter`: yeah, it doesn't work on Chrome 6
# [16:27] <remysharp> :(
# [16:28] <Peter`> Works fine on Firefox though
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# [16:29] <remysharp> yeah - flash shim ftw :)
# [16:29] <remysharp> not mine - obviously someone way smarter :)
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# [16:35] <Philip`> zcorpan_: It'd be nice if the warning gave some details that made it possible to debug
# [16:35] <Philip`> e.g. to determine if it's a false positive or not
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# [19:13] <llrcombs> hey, what's the rule for right-clicking on <object>s and <embed>s?
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# [19:44] * karlushi wonders if webkit became stricter for cookies
# [19:44] <karlushi> encoding
# [19:46] <Workshiva> Dear lazy IRC, can I customize the time zone used for \t in a bash prompt?
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# [19:49] <karlushi> Workshiva, do you want the local time, or the TZ info?
# [19:49] <Philip`> Workshiva: Do you want to change it independently of other applications?
# [19:50] <Workshiva> I'd be fine with changing it in all applications, but I can't change the system timezone
# [19:51] <Philip`> You could put TZ=Whatever in .bash_profile
# [19:52] <Philip`> (where Whatever is something from /usr/share/zoneinfo)
# [19:53] <karlushi> do not use \t and use date something like?: export PS1="[\$(date +%k:%M:%S)]> "
# [19:53] <Workshiva> TZ seems to work
# [19:54] <Workshiva> Thanks lazy IRC!
# [19:54] * Philip` thanks http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/guide-localization.xml
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# [20:25] * karlushi is discovering the webkit difference of handling cookies with commas http://cookietest.livelyconsulting.com/
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# [20:40] * karlushi wonders if webkit has started to implement https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-httpstate-cookie/
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# [20:45] <llrcombs> hey, what's the rule for right-clicking on <object>s and <embed>s?
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# [20:52] <annevk> karlushi, I suspect so; given how abarth usually goes about things
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# [20:58] <llrcombs> assuming it's an empty <object> (say, <object id="nothing"></object>)
# [20:59] <llrcombs> should the UA display its own context-menu
# [20:59] <llrcombs> or should it ignore it (since no plugin is loaded)
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# [21:04] <karlushi> annevk, thanks
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# [21:09] <karlushi> http://assets.en.oreilly.com/1/event/44/TCP%20and%20the%20Lower%20Bound%20of%20Web%20Performance%20Presentation.pdf
# [21:10] <annevk> llrcombs, it's up to the UA
# [21:10] <annevk> llrcombs, though if the element is not displayed at all there's prolly no context menu for it :)
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# [21:20] <llrcombs> no, assuming it's displayed, but there's nothing loaded in it
# [21:25] <annevk> nothing much really
# [21:25] <annevk> semantically in that case it's like
# [21:25] <annevk> so you could do whatever you do for I suppose
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# [21:30] <llrcombs> so, then, WebKit's doing it wrong
# [21:30] <llrcombs> good!
# [21:30] <llrcombs> good
# [21:30] <llrcombs> I've already got a bug report in for that
# [21:31] <llrcombs> just wanted to confirm that what I thought was the right way was, in fact, the right way
# [21:31] <llrcombs> except, wouldn't it be a block-level element (e.g. a <div>), not a ?
# [21:31] <AryehGregor> I'm pretty sure the spec doesn't say anything here.
# [21:32] <AryehGregor> Behavior is undefined, as with most UI-related things.
# [21:32] <AryehGregor> The spec doesn't assume that there's any such thing as a context menu on your platform (and on some platforms, indeed, there's not).
# [21:33] <llrcombs> heh
# [21:33] <llrcombs> true
# [21:34] <llrcombs> and the spec isn't exactly crystal-clear on <embed>s and <object>s either
# [21:36] <AryehGregor> Because their functionality is really "give control to some non-HTML program, quite possibly a binary blob controlled by an entirely different party from the browser implementer".
# [21:37] <llrcombs> exactly
# [21:37] <llrcombs> but the <object> tag was always a bad notation, imho
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# [22:11] <annevk> llrcombs, nah, <object> like <img> is inline during fallback
# [22:11] <annevk> (not that it should matter for what kind of context menu you would get)
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# [22:36] <AryehGregor> Where is it specced how big iframes should be if they have no height or width?
# [22:36] * AryehGregor checks the rendering section
# [22:38] * AryehGregor doesn't see it
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# [22:49] <zcorpan_> i think it's http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/complete/rendering.html#embedded-content-2 and http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/visudet.html#inline-replaced-width
# [22:51] <zcorpan_> or maybe it's not defined properly in html5
# [22:51] <AryehGregor> It doesn't say what the intrinsic height and width are supposed to be, though?
# [22:52] <AryehGregor> (also, I'm not seeing from CSS what the height is if there's no intrinsic height, width, or ratio)
# [22:55] <zcorpan_> it says 150px height for block/inline-block/float, but iframe is inline in opera/webkit/firefox
# [22:55] <annevk> CSS 2.1 defines that
# [22:55] <annevk> ultimate fallback is 150/300
# [22:55] <annevk> for replaced content with no intrinsic height/width
# [22:56] <AryehGregor> Where does it say 150px height here? http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/visudet.html#inline-replaced-width
# [22:57] <zcorpan_> an iframe pointing to an svg with intrinsic width/height still uses 300x150
# [22:57] <AryehGregor> Yes, an iframe without seamless has to be defined to have no intrinsic width or height or ratio.
# [22:57] <AryehGregor> It doesn't seem like that is defined anywhere.
# [22:57] <AryehGregor> I'll file a bug, I guess.
# [22:58] <annevk> AryehGregor, that's width
# [22:58] <annevk> AryehGregor, it says 300 there
# [22:59] <AryehGregor> Oh, oops.
# [22:59] <annevk> AryehGregor, height is defined here http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/visudet.html#inline-replaced-height where it says 150
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# [22:59] <AryehGregor> I see, it has separate sections for height and width.
# [22:59] <annevk> and has had for a decade or so :)
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# [23:01] <zcorpan_> oh that section covered inline as well. i obviously skipped the first few words in the heading
# [23:01] <zcorpan_> anyway, those are still not accurate for iframe since browsers always use 300x150 as default
# [23:02] <annevk> oh, you're right
# [23:02] <annevk> I think I pointed that out once
# [23:02] <annevk> that HTML5 should have default style rules for it
# [23:02] <annevk> I wonder if I ever filed a bug on that or emailed...
# [23:03] <zcorpan_> if it was before whatwg last call, it fell between the cracks
# [23:03] * AryehGregor just filed http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10091
# [23:05] <annevk> meh
# [23:06] <annevk> iframe { height:150px; width:300px } is needed
# [23:06] <annevk> in the rendering section
# [23:06] <annevk> presumably overridden when seamless is specified and the URL is same-origin
# [23:07] <AryehGregor> Wouldn't that allow authors to override it with iframe { height: auto; width: auto }?
# [23:09] <annevk> zcorpan_, hmm, actually, the problem seems more that iframe creates a "viewport" of its own and that viewport has no intrinsic height/width and therefore the CSS rules apply
# [23:10] <annevk> zcorpan_, so the embedded content is not SVG, it's a viewport with SVG on it (something in that direction)
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# [23:10] <llrcombs> so seamless would do the same thing as iFrames do on iPhone (size themselves to fit their content)?
# [23:10] <AryehGregor> Do iframes really do that on the iPhone?
# [23:11] <llrcombs> yep
# [23:11] * llrcombs is annoyed at LT (local high school)
# [23:11] <llrcombs> they have an HTML course
# [23:11] <llrcombs> but they have a rule
# [23:11] <zcorpan_> also cross-origin?
# [23:11] <llrcombs> yes, iirc
# [23:11] <llrcombs> go try it!
# [23:11] <zcorpan_> i don't have an iphone
# [23:12] <llrcombs> that rule is: all tags must be all-caps
# [23:12] <llrcombs> .....
# [23:12] * llrcombs pulls up the iSim
# [23:12] <llrcombs> I'm pretty sure that's what MobileSafari DOES though
# [23:13] * llrcombs tests on his virtual iPhone 4
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# [23:15] <llrcombs> yep
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# [23:16] <llrcombs> given style="width: 100; height: 100;", it resizes the width to the minimum height to display correctly
# [23:16] <llrcombs> and the height to the height of the page
# [23:16] <llrcombs> (correctly = without a scrollbar)
# [23:17] <AryehGregor> Even cross-origin?
# [23:17] <AryehGregor> That sounds like a security vulnerability.
# [23:17] <llrcombs> ?
# [23:17] <llrcombs> all it adjusts is the width+height
# [23:17] <llrcombs> I was testing from a data: url, but I remember the same thing happening in W3Schools' TryIt editor
# [23:18] <AryehGregor> Width+height leaks info.
# [23:18] <AryehGregor> Whether you're logged into the site, for instance.
# [23:18] <llrcombs> it's as though the "seamless" attribute is applied to every iframe
# [23:18] <llrcombs> ahh, no, it's not actually specified
# [23:18] <AryehGregor> And possibly lots of other fun stuff.
# [23:18] <llrcombs> not in CSS
# [23:18] <llrcombs> it's just as though you'd applied seamless
# [23:18] <llrcombs> no vernurability beyond what would be provided by actually adding the seamless attribute
# [23:20] <AryehGregor> seamless doesn't work cross-origin.
# [23:20] <AryehGregor> For exactly this reason.
# [23:20] <AryehGregor> Because it would be a security vulnerability if it did. :)
# [23:20] <llrcombs> and...
# [23:20] <llrcombs> Google put the sidebar back
# [23:20] <llrcombs> just did it
# [23:20] <llrcombs> I googled "iPhone iFrame"
# [23:20] <llrcombs> then added "scroll" and voila, the sidebar's back
# [23:21] <llrcombs> they always make their changes right when I'm searching stuff
# [23:21] <llrcombs> except logos
# [23:21] <zcorpan_> ab in VLC shows "a>b"
# [23:22] <zcorpan_> a<01:00,000>b also shows "a>b"
# [23:22] <llrcombs> #VLC
# [23:23] <llrcombs> erm
# [23:23] <llrcombs> nvm
# [23:23] <llrcombs> ahh
# [23:23] <llrcombs> must be one on another server
# [23:23] <llrcombs> file a bug report @ their site
# [23:23] <zcorpan_> the purpose of my testing is for websrt
# [23:23] <llrcombs> ooh boy websrt
# [23:24] * llrcombs can't wait for WK to add support for that
# [23:25] <zcorpan_> it seems to ignore an unclosed altogether and drops the whole cue if i use
# [23:25] <Slaanesh> zcorpan_: VLC is legendary for failing to parse subtitles properly
# [23:25] <zcorpan_> Slaanesh: you know any specific examples?
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# [23:30] <erlehmann> zcorpan_, i once had a subtitle file that was tuned to fail on bad VLC parsing
# [23:31] <zcorpan_> erlehmann: you don't have it anymore or can find it again?
# [23:31] <erlehmann> while other players coped well with it, VLC only had a continuous stream of YOUR MEDIA PLAYER SUCKS or something like that
# [23:31] <zcorpan_> lol
# [23:31] <Slaanesh> Yeah, a few groups would make subs like that
# [23:31] <erlehmann> i can look for it, but i do not think i have it anymore.
# [23:31] <erlehmann> wait.
# [23:31] <zcorpan_> media player equivalent of browser sniffing
# [23:32] <erlehmann> _██_
# [23:32] <erlehmann> (°ᴗƪ)
# [23:32] <erlehmann> hilarious insight, chap
# [23:33] * zcorpan_ successfully used that smiley in srt in vlc
# [23:33] <Slaanesh> zcorpan_: Not really, you can't sniff in subtitles
# [23:34] <Slaanesh> More like media player equivalent of <blink>
# [23:34] <zcorpan_> Slaanesh: you can expose bugs to block some media players
# [23:35] <Slaanesh> Yeah, but that's just feature detection
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# Session Close: Tue Jul 06 00:00:00 2010

The end :)