/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2010-08-17 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Aug 17 00:00:00 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:03] * Quits: eighty4 (~eighty4@unaffiliated/eighty4) (Remote host closed the connection)
  4. # [00:09] <Hixie> gsnedders: please see mike's comment in bug 10002
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  9. # [00:22] <Hixie> was the decision to use <figcaption> a poll decision? and if so, does anyone remember when it was made? I can't see it on the list of wg decisions, but the list seems out of date
  10. # [00:23] <AryehGregor> I remember it as resolved by consensus.
  11. # [00:24] <AryehGregor> Or, specifically, the people who objected deciding not to bother with a change proposal.
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  14. # [00:27] <hober> Hixie: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Feb/0032.html
  15. # [00:28] <hober> more specifically, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Feb/0344.html
  16. # [00:31] <Hixie> thanks
  17. # [00:32] <Hixie> there, i resolved a bunch of bugs
  18. # [00:32] <Hixie> hopefully that will get people off my back for a short while and i can go back to dealing with whatwg e-mails
  19. # [00:34] <AryehGregor> Are whatwg e-mails generally more useful or important than bugs?
  20. # [00:36] <Hixie> they're older
  21. # [00:39] <othermaciej> what's the current oldest unanswered email?
  22. # [00:40] <othermaciej> also, thanks for resolving some bugs
  23. # [00:49] <Hixie> Oldest e-mail is from march 2007, but it's in a folder i've put on hold (datagrid). Oldest e-mail that isn't on hold is from March this year.
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  33. # [01:48] <rubys> $ curl --head http://www.whatwg.org/
  34. # [01:48] <rubys> curl: (7) couldn't connect to host
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  36. # [01:49] <Hixie> yeah i'm rebooting it
  37. # [01:49] <Hixie> it should be up momentarily
  38. # [01:49] <rubys> cool, thx
  39. # [01:51] <Hixie> the server's been acting flaky for a couple of weeks now, but i can't work out exactly what's wrong which makes it hard to report
  40. # [01:52] <rubys> while I hadn't thought deeply about it until now, I guess I'm amazed that it is just one server.
  41. # [01:52] <Hixie> it's a VM that's hosting a dozen or so domains running on a shared server that itself is probably running dozens of VMs
  42. # [01:54] <Hixie> ok, i've escalated this to a proper outage request, it's not responding to my requests to reboot
  43. # [01:54] <Hixie> i expect some disk died or something
  44. # [01:55] <Hixie> ok, it's up again
  45. # [01:56] <Hixie> ish
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  47. # [01:57] <rubys> lol. I noticed that some things seem sluggish... the first thing I noted was the simple serving of /images/logo took a several seconds. Subsequent requests were fine.
  48. # [01:59] <rubys> ... anyway, I assume that you are on top of it, and it will get resolved (either fixed where it is, or the site will move to a more reliable host, or whatever)
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  60. # [02:40] <nessy> is the whatwg server hosted at Google? just curious..
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  65. # [02:47] <Philip`> nessy: Dreamhost
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  67. # [02:48] <nessy> ah, ok - I expected Google to manage having servers up all the time, but I kinda do that from Dreamhost, too - anyway, good luck debugging the problems!
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  115. # [08:02] <Hixie> is it normal for a php.cgi process to be long lived?
  116. # [08:03] <Hixie> php5.cgi, sorry
  117. # [08:06] <annevk5> i suppose it could be if it's doing heavy processing
  118. # [08:06] <annevk5> but I believe typically they're done rather fast
  119. # [08:07] <Hixie> that's what i thought
  120. # [08:07] <Peter`> lighttpd tends to spawn one of these for each process
  121. # [08:07] <Hixie> some of the blog php5.cgis and some of the wiki php5.cgis have been running for more than 15 minutes
  122. # [08:07] <Peter`> depends on the way the httpd communicates with them I guess, are they using resources?
  123. # [08:08] <Hixie> over 60 megs of RAM each
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  125. # [08:11] <annevk5> maybe we should get some more caching for the blog?
  126. # [08:12] <annevk5> gruber makes fun of taking down wordpress blogs all the time too... so not sure if that'd help
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  134. # [08:15] <Hixie> the problem isn't the blog
  135. # [08:15] <Hixie> there's something fishy with the server
  136. # [08:15] <annevk5> oh, maybe today the XHR test suite will start to work
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  152. # [08:55] <annevk5> btw, about this registry stuff
  153. # [08:56] <annevk5> the XPointer people didn't use IANA either and have set up a registry that is pretty much what we want
  154. # [08:56] <annevk5> http://www.w3.org/2005/04/xpointer-schemes/
  155. # [08:56] <annevk5> http://www.w3.org/2005/04/xpointer-policy.html
  156. # [08:56] <annevk5> "first come, first served", put directly in the registry, and then subject to further review
  157. # [08:57] <annevk5> URL to a detailed spec is optional
  158. # [08:57] <annevk5> it requires a W3C account, but everyone can get one of those
  159. # [08:58] <Hixie> i'd prefer a system that put less of a load on w3c staff and relied more on an open community, but otherwise yeah, that's pretty much what we need
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  163. # [09:04] <othermaciej> I'm going to suggest to my fellow co-chairs that it's time for alternate / counter proposals, so if anyone wants to suggest a registry in that style, that would make a reasonable proposal
  164. # [09:04] <othermaciej> that does seem like a much more lightweight approach
  165. # [09:05] <annevk5> right, I'd still prefer a wiki over the thing above
  166. # [09:06] <annevk5> if someone prefers nice export et al they can write a wiki-to-JSON bridge
  167. # [09:07] <othermaciej> if anyone wants to propose using the wiki that is fine too
  168. # [09:07] <othermaciej> I don't care that much how this all works
  169. # [09:07] <othermaciej> but I think a wiki sucks for purposes of consumption the validator
  170. # [09:07] <othermaciej> and the validator is one of the most important consumers for this data
  171. # [09:08] <othermaciej> I would not expect a random wiki page to retain a sufficiently consistent format that you could soundly screen-scrape it to JSON
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  176. # [09:12] <annevk5> Henri already wrote a wiki scraper for UI strings
  177. # [09:12] <annevk5> on purpose, since he could have hosted them in the repository or some such instead
  178. # [09:13] <annevk5> so I think that concern is rather theoretical
  179. # [09:14] <annevk5> a wiki has an auth system, it has lots of people looking at it, it deals with spam, etc.
  180. # [09:14] <othermaciej> it seems needlessly sloppy to me
  181. # [09:14] <othermaciej> there's really no benefit to the wiki page being a free-form editable piece of text
  182. # [09:14] <othermaciej> it doesn't really need the ability to be anything but a table with the appropriate N columns or whatever
  183. # [09:14] <annevk5> sure, but having to write new software to do everything a wiki already does is no benefit either
  184. # [09:15] <othermaciej> I could also imagine a setup where you use a wiki page for provisional registration, and something more structured for full "approved" registration
  185. # [09:15] <othermaciej> since the later is the only part that affects conformance
  186. # [09:15] <othermaciej> well, in theory anyway
  187. # [09:15] <othermaciej> IIRC the HTML5 spec does not define how the contents of the wiki affect conformance
  188. # [09:17] <othermaciej> hmm I guess it does say now
  189. # [09:18] <othermaciej> and it says both "proposed" and "ratified" count as conforming
  190. # [09:19] <othermaciej> strikes me as more generous than necessary (fail to validate, edit wiki, step 3 profit?)
  191. # [09:19] <othermaciej> but as I said, I don't care much about the details here
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  193. # [09:20] <annevk5> proposed should prolly be a warning of some sorts
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  199. # [10:17] <Hixie> othermaciej: there is one benefit to it being a free-form editable piece of text -- the code to do that already exists.
  200. # [10:17] <Hixie> and is deployed
  201. # [10:17] <Hixie> and has an active spam-fighting community
  202. # [10:17] <Hixie> (hober)
  203. # [10:17] <othermaciej> sure, and the HTML4.01 spec is already written and been published as REC
  204. # [10:18] <othermaciej> there's lots of things we could choose not to do because something exists
  205. # [10:18] <othermaciej> not saying this case is of nearly equal importance
  206. # [10:18] <Hixie> sure, i'm just disagreeing with "there's really no benefit to the wiki page being a free-form editable piece of text"
  207. # [10:18] <Hixie> i'm happy to have something better
  208. # [10:19] <Hixie> but unless someone steps up and writes the code for it, that's theoretical.
  209. # [10:19] <annevk5> and maintains it
  210. # [10:19] <Hixie> indeed
  211. # [10:20] <Hixie> (i think it would be better to have a wiki on the w3c's site than the whatwg site, btw)
  212. # [10:20] <Hixie> (wikipedia or wikibooks would be even better if they were up for it)
  213. # [10:21] <annevk5> maybe they can create wikistry
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  216. # [10:21] <Hixie> hehe
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  218. # [10:22] <othermaciej> that would probably deliver more of a promise of long-term continuity and be politically more congenial to some
  219. # [10:23] <othermaciej> still strikes me personally as too unstructured
  220. # [10:23] <othermaciej> but I have already talked way too much about a topic I profess to care little about
  221. # [10:23] <Hixie> heh
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  225. # [10:29] <jgraham> Hixie: We can leave the innerHTML-on-foreign-content stuff to "v2" of course, but I would expect it to be in demand given that many js libraries rely heavily on innerHTML
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  227. # [10:30] <jgraham> and will presumably be used in more situations with mixed namespace content once it is supported in text/html
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  229. # [10:38] <Hixie> jgraham: yeah, agreed
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  235. # [10:44] <Hixie> ok bed time
  236. # [10:44] <Hixie> nn
  237. # [10:45] <annevk5> nn
  238. # [10:45] <jgraham> gn
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  246. # [11:03] <MikeSmith> gsnedders: I think I drink about a gallon of green tea before lunch
  247. # [11:03] <MikeSmith> and two gallons after
  248. # [11:04] * Quits: homata (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Quit: Leaving...)
  249. # [11:04] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: I normally drink a lot of green tea, but today has been black
  250. # [11:04] <MikeSmith> I can't drink that much black tea
  251. # [11:05] <MikeSmith> it gives me ick mouth after a point
  252. # [11:05] <MikeSmith> and if I drank that much coffee, i'm pretty sure I'd have to be hospitalized
  253. # [11:05] <gsnedders> ewww, coffee
  254. # [11:06] <MikeSmith> gsnedders: btw, I get the impression you have lost interest, but I will soon be unleashing on you an enhancement patch for anolis
  255. # [11:06] <MikeSmith> and if nothing else it should provide you with some laughing-at-my-expense entertainment value
  256. # [11:07] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: I've said as much
  257. # [11:07] <MikeSmith> well, at this will olet you get a glimpse of my, um, approach to coding
  258. # [11:07] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: I'll probably dump the code I have for Anolis 2 somewhere public soon and just let anyone who wants xdoc support to get it to work
  259. # [11:07] <MikeSmith> OK, well, I'll have something you can add to the dump
  260. # [11:08] <MikeSmith> and possibly something you can contribute to the Daily WTF and get an award or something
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  263. # [11:09] * gsnedders hugs MikeSmith
  264. # [11:09] <gsnedders> Self-confidence!
  265. # [11:09] <MikeSmith> gsnedders: your code is nice and refined, like a jeweler working on a watch movement
  266. # [11:09] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: …
  267. # [11:09] <MikeSmith> mine is like a guy bashing a TV on the side to make it show a better picture
  268. # [11:09] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: Anolis was the first thing I ever wrote in Python. It's horrific.
  269. # [11:10] <MikeSmith> heh
  270. # [11:10] <MikeSmith> you ain't seen nothing yet
  271. # [11:10] <gsnedders> I've written cleaner Perl than the Python of Anolis.
  272. # [11:10] <gsnedders> Oh, I've seen plenty of bad code.
  273. # [11:10] <MikeSmith> I will say that this exercise of trying to add a new feature to anolis has given me a whole new appreciation for the etree API
  274. # [11:11] <MikeSmith> which is not saying much, because my appreciation for that API was previously zero
  275. # [11:12] <MikeSmith> and I would not have ever tried to use it unless it seemed like the quickest and bash-the-TV-iest way to get done what I wanted to get done
  276. # [11:12] <MikeSmith> but now that I've messed around with it a bit, I have to say it has its own appeal
  277. # [11:12] <MikeSmith> kind of like Bizarro Superman
  278. # [11:12] <gsnedders> It has some fairly horrible flaws, though
  279. # [11:13] <MikeSmith> true that
  280. # [11:13] <jgraham> The etree api as implemented in lxml is pretty good
  281. # [11:13] <jgraham> Could do with a .textContent
  282. # [11:13] <MikeSmith> it doesn't have one of its own?
  283. # [11:14] <MikeSmith> .text_content() ?
  284. # [11:14] <MikeSmith> or is that part of lxml?
  285. # [11:14] <MikeSmith> ah yeah
  286. # [11:14] <jgraham> Umm, maybe it does now
  287. # [11:14] <gsnedders> You can't do anything better than etree.to_string(node, type="unicode")
  288. # [11:14] <gsnedders> oh, lxml.html does
  289. # [11:14] <gsnedders> Odd
  290. # [11:14] <jgraham> "".join(node.xpath(".//text()"))
  291. # [11:14] <gsnedders> jgraham: Slow, comparitively
  292. # [11:15] <gsnedders> (Anolis used to do that)
  293. # [11:15] <MikeSmith> i recall this thing:
  294. # [11:16] <MikeSmith> etree.tostring(foo, method='text')
  295. # [11:16] <gsnedders> return etree.tostring(Element, encoding=unicode, method='text', with_fail=False) is what Anolis does now
  296. # [11:16] <MikeSmith> I think I used that etree.tostring(foo, method='text') for about 3 seconds, before I found some right-er way of doing it
  297. # [11:17] <gsnedders> anolislib.utils.textContent(foo)
  298. # [11:17] <gsnedders> :P
  299. # [11:17] <MikeSmith> anyway, it's a nice respite for the pain of working with native W3C DOM directly
  300. # [11:17] * Joins: ZombieLoffe (~e@unaffiliated/zombieloffe)
  301. # [11:18] <MikeSmith> s/respite for/respite from/
  302. # [11:19] * Joins: hdhoang (~hdhoang@2001:470:f20e:0:feff:68:111:68)
  303. # [11:19] <MikeSmith> the entire W3C DOM should be enshrined in Daily WTF in a place of high honor
  304. # [11:19] <annevk5> hmm, adding more features to XMLHttpRequest Level 2 while change requests are ongoing for Level 1
  305. # [11:19] <annevk5> this is gonna be fun
  306. # [11:19] <annevk5> maybe I should wait
  307. # [11:21] <annevk5> hmm, I think that leaves CSS values
  308. # [11:21] <annevk5> I don't really like working on that
  309. # [11:21] <MikeSmith> W3C DOM Daily WTF award: The guy who couldn't conceive that path/selector node selection is way better the constant redundant tree walking all the freaking time
  310. # [11:21] <MikeSmith> what is CSS values?
  311. # [11:21] <MikeSmith> a political document?
  312. # [11:21] <MikeSmith> that should be a lot of fun to work on
  313. # [11:22] <annevk5> its like ele.style.values.width.px++
  314. # [11:22] <MikeSmith> ah
  315. # [11:22] <annevk5> it's even
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  318. # [11:23] <MikeSmith> even?
  319. # [11:23] <annevk5> but I guess I should at least take a stab at it, working on XHR2 can wait a little longer, and I'm not sure if I want to start on Web DOM Core just yet
  320. # [11:23] <annevk5> it's rather than its
  321. # [11:24] <annevk5> correcting a typo
  322. # [11:24] <MikeSmith> ah
  323. # [11:24] <MikeSmith> Web Notifications fun will be ramping up pretty soon
  324. # [11:24] <annevk5> I think Web DOM Core might be my next challenge in cleaning up legacy stuff
  325. # [11:24] <MikeSmith> yeah, do that
  326. # [11:24] <annevk5> ah yeah, that will be my challenge at adding cruft to the platform that creates future legacy problems ;p
  327. # [11:25] <MikeSmith> heh
  328. # [11:26] <MikeSmith> "and people thought pop-up windows *within* their browser were annoying..."
  329. # [11:26] <MikeSmith> that's what people will be saying next year
  330. # [11:26] <annevk5> hopefully we do it right
  331. # [11:26] <annevk5> harhar
  332. # [11:27] <MikeSmith> at least there's no additional telcons
  333. # [11:27] <MikeSmith> hopefully
  334. # [11:28] <annevk5> as long as I remain chair that seems unlikely
  335. # [11:29] <MikeSmith> I like your chairing already
  336. # [11:29] <Peter`> lol
  337. # [11:29] <MikeSmith> keep it up
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  357. # [12:35] <annevk5> complicated: http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/cssom
  358. # [12:36] <annevk5> hmm
  359. # [12:37] <annevk5> now i wonder what license the IANA registry is under
  360. # [12:37] <annevk5> i guess that issue was never solved...
  361. # [12:44] <jgraham> Presumably the typical "look but don't touch" licenses
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  375. # [13:49] <jgraham> <!doctype html><form><table></form><form></table></form>
  376. # [13:49] <jgraham> Is it me or is that broken with the changes to make <form> in <table> set the form pointer
  377. # [13:50] <jgraham> or it could just be bad wording in the spec
  378. # [13:50] <jgraham> But when you hit the final <form> there is *a* form element in scope; the first one
  379. # [13:51] <jgraham> But that is not the one the form element pointer points to
  380. # [13:51] <jgraham> so when you try to remove the one the form element pointer points to, badness happens
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  383. # [13:53] <jgraham> The end tag ... form stuff says "the stack of open elements does not have node in scope", but the scope stuff only deals with elements of a specific type (presumably meaning (ns, name)), not specific nodes
  384. # [13:54] <jgraham> No wait I am misreading
  385. # [13:55] <jgraham> OK so the problem is that _almost_always_ you just look for an element with a specific name
  386. # [13:55] <jgraham> But the algorithm is wordded so that you are always looking for a specific ID
  387. # [13:56] <jgraham> s/id/node/
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  393. # [14:10] <annevk5> hmm, not much spec updates but email is now below 400
  394. # [14:11] <annevk5> might be lowest point in 3-4 years
  395. # [14:12] <Ms2ger> It was at zero last October, wasn't it?
  396. # [14:12] <annevk5> that seems unlikely
  397. # [14:13] <annevk5> I have email from 2006 here :)
  398. # [14:13] <Philip`> Which spec do you mean?
  399. # [14:13] <Ms2ger> Oh, you
  400. # [14:14] <jgraham> Wasn;t it 0 excluding datagrid or something
  401. # [14:14] <annevk5> Philip`, various; cssom; cssom view; xhr; xhr2; etc.
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  404. # [14:15] <annevk5> yeah, http://www.whatwg.org/issues/data.html?period=6 is slightly worse
  405. # [14:17] * Joins: daedb (~daed@78-72-108-100-no178.tbcn.telia.com)
  406. # [14:17] <jgraham> "Estimated date for last e-mail based on the data above: 2006-02-02"
  407. # [14:17] * Joins: matjas (5bb66362@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.182.99.98)
  408. # [14:17] <annevk5> it says 2013-03-20 here
  409. # [14:17] <jgraham> Set it to period=12
  410. # [14:18] <annevk5> when set to max it gives 2011-07-19
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  412. # [14:18] <annevk5> heh
  413. # [14:18] <jgraham> Hint taht your estimation algorithm is bad: it depends on the amount of data you are displaying :)
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  415. # [14:19] <annevk5> to be fair it does state that
  416. # [14:19] <Philip`> It's not like it'd be less wildly inaccurate and meaningless if it used more of the data
  417. # [14:19] <matjas> Is there such a thing as XHTML5 + RDFa? I found http://dev.w3.org/html5/rdfa/rdfa-module.html — does this mean it’s just not available yet?
  418. # [14:19] <jgraham> Well only if you consider "the data above" to be the range that you happen to be displaying
  419. # [14:20] <jgraham> rather than the full dataset
  420. # [14:22] * gsnedders wants a sing-along (heck, just a DVD would be a start) copy of Avenue Q :D :D :D
  421. # [14:23] <matjas> Re: XHTML5 + RDFa — I'm asking because a client of mine explicitly asked for XHTML + RDFa. Do I have to use old-school XHTML 1 + RDFa or is there a way for me to use (X)HTML5 here?
  422. # [14:23] * jgraham wants to never hear the words "singalong" and "gsnedders" in the same sentence without the words "will be forbidden from"
  423. # [14:23] <gsnedders> jgraham: Aww, even though you missed the Sound of Music sing-along at the weekend?
  424. # [14:23] <jgraham> "missed"
  425. # [14:24] <gsnedders> It was awesome.
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  427. # [14:25] <jgraham> s/esome/ful/
  428. # [14:25] <annevk5> matjas, dunno, we don't do RDFa
  429. # [14:25] <annevk5> matjas, tell him about Microdata
  430. # [14:25] <annevk5> or her
  431. # [14:25] <gsnedders> or them
  432. # [14:26] <annevk5> or everyone really
  433. # [14:26] <annevk5> up to you ;p
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  435. # [14:26] <matjas> annevk5: sadly, there's no convincing him. His company provides "XML and RDFa services"…
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  437. # [14:27] <jgraham> So what we're saying is because you asked a question about RDFa you have to become a Microdata evangelist now
  438. # [14:27] <jgraham> to atone for your sins
  439. # [14:27] * jgraham almost types sines
  440. # [14:27] <matjas> he just asked for "XHTML+RDFa"; I'm sure he's not gonna make any use of RDFa though.
  441. # [14:27] <annevk5> matjas, there was this article on ALA about nicely rejecting clients ;p
  442. # [14:27] <annevk5> matjas, but euh, there some proposal for HTML5+RDFa
  443. # [14:28] <matjas> annevk5: haha. wish i was popular enough to just do that :)
  444. # [14:28] <matjas> annevk5: this? http://dev.w3.org/html5/rdfa/rdfa-module.html
  445. # [14:28] <annevk5> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdfa-in-html/
  446. # [14:29] <annevk5> http://dev.w3.org/html5/rdfa/ is the editor's draft
  447. # [14:31] <matjas> Hmm, so atm <html version="HTML+RDFa 1.1" lang="en"> is the way to go. Sadly the HTML5 spec considers this an error, since @version is obsolete. :'(
  448. # [14:33] <jgraham> You could probably invoke the "other applicable specifications" clause
  449. # [14:34] <jgraham> Since I think they made an @version specification
  450. # [14:37] <matjas> I guess I’ll have to stick to XHTML1+RDFa then. *cries*
  451. # [14:37] <matjas> I’d love to tell my client he doesn’t really need it, but that would be the equivalent of telling him to start a new business
  452. # [14:37] <matjas> DO NOT WANT
  453. # [14:42] <annevk5> you can map RDF to Microdata
  454. # [14:42] <annevk5> why not do that?
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  458. # [15:02] <matjas> annevk5: heh, wut? got an example of that?
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  461. # [15:08] <Ms2ger> matjas, http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/links.html#examples-4 is one example
  462. # [15:09] <matjas> Thanks
  463. # [15:10] <annevk5> so Ms2ger, wdyt, attempt to remove lowsrc as well or keep it? Firefox has the ability to figure it out, but I'm not sure how much they like being guinea pigs :)
  464. # [15:10] * annevk5 wonders if sicking is around
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  466. # [15:11] <Ms2ger> You noticed I broke Chatzilla by killing document.height? :)
  467. # [15:11] <annevk5> oh god
  468. # [15:11] <annevk5> no i didn't
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  489. # [15:49] <boblet> hey all, I wrote some stuff about microformats in HTML5 http://html5doctor.com/microformats/
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  496. # [16:04] <annevk5> hmm, forgot to get back to my WAI-ARIA comments
  497. # [16:05] <annevk5> guess it's too late now :/
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  500. # [16:10] <annevk5> it's still hopelessly complicated too
  501. # [16:11] <annevk5> e.g. http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/20100616/roles#textalternativecomputation
  502. # [16:11] <annevk5> would be interesting to see the test suite for that section
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  508. # [16:45] <annevk5> whoa, that took long
  509. # [16:45] <annevk5> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg-comments/2010JulSep/0023.html
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  514. # [17:04] <cheeser> how close are we to a stable-ish websocket spec?
  515. # [17:04] <cheeser> trying to decide if should update to the latest spec now or just wait a bit.
  516. # [17:04] <gsnedders> Good question.
  517. # [17:04] <cheeser> it's likely the browsers haven't caught up anyway
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  519. # [17:06] <annevk5> cheeser, about as close as yesterday or a couple of weeks ago
  520. # [17:07] <cheeser> yeah. that's what i'm afraid of. ;)
  521. # [17:07] <cheeser> i think the only real change i'm missing is the frame formatting
  522. # [17:08] <cheeser> which, i have to say, i'm excited about. makes frame parsing much simpler.
  523. # [17:08] <jgraham> cheeser: The editor changed and the new one wants something much more complex
  524. # [17:08] <jgraham> Unless that is what you mean
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  526. # [17:09] <cheeser> i mean the change that made all frame length delimited.
  527. # [17:09] <cheeser> is Hixie no longer the editor?
  528. # [17:09] <jgraham> He is editing the API
  529. # [17:09] <jgraham> Ian Fette is editing the protocol
  530. # [17:09] <jgraham> He wants something way more complex
  531. # [17:09] * Joins: yutak_home (~kee@U017209.ppp.dion.ne.jp)
  532. # [17:09] <cheeser> ah
  533. # [17:09] <cheeser> any url on that? or a mailing list?
  534. # [17:10] <jgraham> looking....
  535. # [17:10] <cheeser> looks like maybe thehybi list
  536. # [17:10] <smaug____> was it actually announced somewhere that I.Fette is the new editor
  537. # [17:10] * smaug____ needs to read all the hybi emails
  538. # [17:11] <jgraham> smaug____: Yeah, on the list
  539. # [17:11] <cheeser> i'm afraid to sign for that list. it's not *entirely* job related excpet for the websockets bits.
  540. # [17:11] <cheeser> so what's he want?
  541. # [17:11] <jgraham> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/hybi/current/msg03154.html
  542. # [17:11] <jgraham> cheeser: It is all WebSockets related now
  543. # [17:11] * Joins: cardona507 (~cardona50@c-67-180-160-250.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  544. # [17:11] <jgraham> But it is fairly high traffic
  545. # [17:12] <jgraham> My long term average is to read about 30% of the mail
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  548. # [17:13] <cheeser> ouch
  549. # [17:13] <jre> cheeser, if your job has to do with websockets, it seems really strange if you aren't following the mailing list where the protocol is being developed.
  550. # [17:13] * Quits: jre (~chatzilla@mail.greenbytes.de) (Client Quit)
  551. # [17:13] <cheeser> i'm not entirely sure how to read that "image"
  552. # [17:13] <cheeser> wth?
  553. # [17:13] <cheeser> wtf was that?
  554. # [17:13] <cheeser> :)
  555. # [17:13] <jgraham> That was Julian I guess
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  557. # [17:14] <jgraham> Dunno why he joined to say that one thing
  558. # [17:14] <annevk5> that's his style
  559. # [17:14] <cheeser> or how he even knew about it
  560. # [17:14] <jgraham> At least we know who reads the logs now :)
  561. # [17:14] <annevk5> irc logs
  562. # [17:14] <cheeser> heh
  563. # [17:14] <annevk5> jgraham, that's nothing new
  564. # [17:14] <jgraham> annevk5: I knjow :)
  565. # [17:15] <annevk5> though i wonder if he runs some kind of script as refreshing it all the time seems rather time consuming
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  567. # [17:15] <jgraham> cheeser: Anyway, the diagram is, I think just bits across the top
  568. # [17:15] <jgraham> split into 32 bit lines
  569. # [17:16] <cheeser> yeah. i was noticing that. so the payload length is either 7bits or 64bits long if the frame-length == 127
  570. # [17:17] <jgraham> Something like that
  571. # [17:18] <jgraham> annevk5: Maybe he has a script that outputs it to his irc window
  572. # [17:20] <cheeser> i should subscribe, though. i'll just have to manage the volume of it. i end up skimming enough of the dev lists i'm already on. and if it is mostly WS these days, it can't hurt.
  573. # [17:20] <cheeser> are these framing questions also a subset of hybi then?
  574. # [17:21] <jgraham> In what way?
  575. # [17:21] <jgraham> They are about WebSockets
  576. # [17:21] <cheeser> i'm not sure what the relationship between websockets and hybi is.
  577. # [17:21] <jgraham> The HyBi list is currently focused entirely on WebSockets
  578. # [17:22] <jgraham> It is of course not impossible that that will change in the future
  579. # [17:22] <cheeser> seems like WS is a bidi addition on top of HTTP while hybi is really looking at replacing all of HTTP with something a bit more modern and bidi in general
  580. # [17:22] <jgraham> You might be thinking od spdy? That's not really related
  581. # [17:23] <jgraham> WebSockets is only really tangentially related to HTTP
  582. # [17:23] <jgraham> It's just 2 way comunication that works with the requirements of browsers
  583. # [17:23] <cheeser> right. i get the websocket/http distinction.
  584. # [17:23] <jgraham> So hybi is a bit of a misnomer
  585. # [17:24] <cheeser> isn't hybi a full protocol spec?
  586. # [17:24] <cheeser> or more of just an umbrella project?
  587. # [17:24] <jgraham> hybi doesn't really exit
  588. # [17:24] <jgraham> *exist
  589. # [17:24] <jgraham> it is just the name of the mailing list
  590. # [17:24] <cheeser> oh, i see.
  591. # [17:24] <jgraham> not a concrete technology
  592. # [17:24] <cheeser> i thought it was an actuall proposed spec
  593. # [17:25] <cheeser> i see. and spdy then is the actuall "let's get rid of http and use this" tech then. yes?
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  597. # [17:27] <cheeser> so how do I subscribe to that mailing list? not seeing anything in the messages in the archive or on the ietf site
  598. # [17:27] <jgraham> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hybi
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  600. # [17:28] <cheeser> ah. just found that. thanks.
  601. # [17:28] <olivvv> hi. quick question, is there in the whole package to come with html5, things that allow to communicate with locally installed apps ?
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  603. # [17:29] <olivvv> its possible in with flash, java applets
  604. # [17:30] <jgraham> olivvv: No. What are you trying to achieve?
  605. # [17:31] <cheeser> there. signed up.
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  607. # [17:32] <cheeser> how stable is spdy? is that on topic here? i've been eyeballing implementing that in glassfish/grizzly as well.
  608. # [17:32] <olivvv> jgraham:Computer - telephony Integration
  609. # [17:33] <olivvv> jgraham:its for a call center, using a small soft, the clients can provided cc number through the phone without the operator to see it
  610. # [17:34] <olivvv> this software needs then to communicate with the webapp in the browser
  611. # [17:35] <olivvv> anyone ?
  612. # [17:36] <jgraham> cheeser: There is not much that is off-topic here (see the /topic) but I don;t think most people follow spdy closely
  613. # [17:36] * cheeser nods.
  614. # [17:37] <jgraham> olivvv: I'm not sure that is possible. It at least sounds like a non-Web use case which is typically not such a high priority
  615. # [17:37] <cheeser> spdy seems mostly a google effort at this point but it's certainly intriguing
  616. # [17:37] <jgraham> olivvv: Although maybe it could work with <device> or so somehow
  617. # [17:38] <olivvv> jgraham: I know it is strange, but since flash and applets are able to do that, I thought somebody would have thought of a standard alternative
  618. # [17:39] <jgraham> olivvv: Communicating with local devices is generally hard because there are all sorts of security problems
  619. # [17:39] <jgraham> But the <device> element is under development for e.g. video cameras
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  621. # [17:40] <olivvv> jgraham:thx I ll google that
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  628. # [17:58] <sean`> up
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  645. # [18:41] <AryehGregor> Yay progress: http://www.imperialviolet.org/2010/08/16/dnssectls.html
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  652. # [18:48] * annevk5 would not mind getting rid of CAs if that was possible
  653. # [18:57] <annevk5> that blog is pretty interesting
  654. # [18:57] <annevk5> http://www.imperialviolet.org/2010/06/25/overclocking-ssl.html
  655. # [18:58] <annevk5> apparently Google Chrome is using SPDY to some extent already?
  656. # [18:59] <cheeser> seems like it supports it, yeah.
  657. # [18:59] <cheeser> i'm not aware of any servers that do, though.
  658. # [19:00] <annevk5> it says Google servers do
  659. # [19:00] <cheeser> what do they run, do you know?
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  661. # [19:00] <cheeser> not stock anything i'm aware of.
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  682. # [19:41] <AryehGregor> whatwg.org is kind of flaky sometimes. Maybe it should get better hosting.
  683. # [19:42] <AryehGregor> (w3.org isn't perfect either, but it seems to be more reliable, which makes us look bad)
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  687. # [19:57] <Hixie> AryehGregor: there's some problem that's been affecting stability recently. hardware or something. not sure what, still studying it.
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  689. # [19:58] * gsnedders is innocent… this time.
  690. # [19:59] <AryehGregor> The ellipsis character looks very annoying in fixed-width fonts.
  691. # [19:59] <Hixie> gsnedders: did you see my comment about bug 10002? (i think it was 10002)
  692. # [19:59] * AryehGregor doesn't know why it exists, it's usually much narrower than an ellipsis is supposed to be, even in proportional fonts
  693. # [19:59] <gsnedders> Hixie: See what myself and MikeSmithX discussed earlier
  694. # [19:59] <Hixie> k
  695. # [19:59] <Hixie> in #whatwg?
  696. # [19:59] <gsnedders> Yeah
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  698. # [20:02] <Hixie> got it
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  703. # [20:12] <Hixie> oh cool, dreamhost replied to my extremely vague request. They've done something to fix the problem and they'll move us to another server if the problems continue anyway.
  704. # [20:14] <AryehGregor> Maybe you should upgrade to dedicated hosting.
  705. # [20:14] <Hixie> sure, send me the money to fund it and i'll get right on that :-)
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  708. # [20:15] <AryehGregor> Is dedicated hosting really so much more expensive?
  709. # [20:15] <Hixie> right now the dreamhost hosting is essentially free
  710. # [20:15] <AryehGregor> How does that work out?
  711. # [20:15] <Hixie> the money i get back on referrals is higher than the cost of my account
  712. # [20:16] <Hixie> and my account has unlimited everything -- bandwidth, disk, domains, users, etc
  713. # [20:16] <Hixie> because i've been a customer for so long
  714. # [20:16] <Mukke|home> i wonna implement html 5, where to start ?
  715. # [20:16] * AryehGregor cringes at a VPS provider claiming to provide "unlimited" anything
  716. # [20:16] <Hixie> AryehGregor: "unlimited" just means they don't charge me by the byte or whatnot
  717. # [20:16] <AryehGregor> Ah.
  718. # [20:17] <Hixie> if i run out of disk, they move me to a machine with more disk
  719. # [20:17] <Hixie> etc
  720. # [20:18] <AryehGregor> I say all this as someone whose personal website is hosted on a machine I happen to run, where the main site costs $500/month for bandwidth alone, so I haven't really had any reason to look into the lower end of the market.
  721. # [20:18] <Hixie> for the last 6 months of hosting several dozen domains and subdomains i've paid $21
  722. # [20:19] <AryehGregor> Mukke|home, you should start by saying "What features do I want to add that my users will want?", and go from there. If you just want to be able to claim that your pages are HTML5, change the doctype to <!doctype html>, run it through validator.nu, and fix all the errors it reports.
  723. # [20:19] <AryehGregor> This is probably not worth the effort, though.
  724. # [20:19] <Mukke|home> yeh
  725. # [20:20] <AryehGregor> Hixie, well, I've paid $0, since I don't pay the bills for my server. I just freeload. :)
  726. # [20:20] <Hixie> :-)
  727. # [20:20] <AryehGregor> In exchange for having fun administering the machine as root.
  728. # [20:20] <AryehGregor> Like fixing it when we have downtime.
  729. # [20:20] <Hixie> i have root too, but don't have to admin it :-)
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  731. # [20:20] <AryehGregor> Yeah, that's the disadvantage of colocation, you have to handle everything.
  732. # [20:20] <AryehGregor> Down to failed hardware.
  733. # [20:21] <AryehGregor> It sure saves on cost, though.
  734. # [20:21] <Mukke|home> AryehGregor, i never have written html 4 like i should have, i wanno do it right and with proper coding in html 5 now
  735. # [20:21] <AryehGregor> Mukke|home, you can use http://validator.nu/ as a guide to see if your website is good HTML5. You might also look at: http://dev.w3.org/html5/html-author/
  736. # [20:24] <Mukke|home> AryehGregor, i need a special featere and i'm almost sure it doesn't excists that whyi came here aswell
  737. # [20:24] <AryehGregor> Then ask.
  738. # [20:24] <Mukke|home> can i shape a div hexagon ?
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  740. # [20:25] <Mukke|home> or any elemnt at all that can have a background_image
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  742. # [20:25] <AryehGregor> No, all elements in CSS are boxes.
  743. # [20:25] <AryehGregor> This might be a question for #css, though.
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  759. # [21:06] <AryehGregor> "Case canonicalization for reflected enumerated attributes limited to known values"
  760. # [21:06] <AryehGregor> I like it when you can write massive strings of gibberish like that and they're actually the only reasonable way to refer to something, not gratuitous at all.
  761. # [21:07] <AryehGregor> My favorite math theorem name is "Parametrized Transfinite Recursion Theorem".
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  763. # [21:12] <gsnedders> Where the verb there?
  764. # [21:13] <AryehGregor> Where's the verb where?
  765. # [21:13] <gsnedders> Indeed.
  766. # [21:13] <gsnedders> :)
  767. # [21:13] <gsnedders> (Freudian slip?)
  768. # [21:13] <AryehGregor> Hmm, wait, this is weirder than I thought.
  769. # [21:14] <AryehGregor> Nobody seems to be properly implementing IDL gets at all on reflected enumerated attributes limited to known values.
  770. # [21:14] <AryehGregor> Except maybe IE.
  771. # [21:14] * AryehGregor admits to copy-pasting the phrase "reflected enumerated attributes limited to known values"
  772. # [21:14] * Quits: AryehGregor (~Simetrica@mediawiki/simetrical) (Quit: Leaving)
  773. # [21:14] <cheeser> ugh. CORBA flashbacks.
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  775. # [21:17] <AryehGregor> I think I pressed Ctrl-Shift-W or something by mistake.
  776. # [21:17] <AryehGregor> Whoever decided to make an easy-to-press way to quit in any application, ever, deserves to be smacked on the head.
  777. # [21:17] <Hixie> i hit command-q instead of command-w all the time
  778. # [21:17] <Hixie> drives me crazy
  779. # [21:17] <AryehGregor> Good thing I have a shell script that positions my XChat windows exactly as I want them on startup.
  780. # [21:17] <cheeser> i love how w and q are right next to each other so it's easy to do cmd-q instead.
  781. # [21:18] * Hixie like his dvorak keyboard for that reason :-)
  782. # [21:18] <AryehGregor> One of my first commits to MediaWiki was to remove the keyboard shortcut for "log out".
  783. # [21:18] <gsnedders> Run stuff in a screen so you can just reattach your terminal to it after restarting your terminal? :P
  784. # [21:19] <AryehGregor> It doesn't happen for me with terminals.
  785. # [21:19] <gsnedders> (That does seriously work quite well for me)
  786. # [21:19] <cheeser> screen+irssi ftw
  787. # [21:19] <gsnedders> screen+* ftw.
  788. # [21:19] <AryehGregor> The only risk is that Ctrl-Shift-uXXXX is used for Unicode characters, and the X's sometimes need to be E, which is right next to W, and Ctrl-Shift-W exits.
  789. # [21:19] <AryehGregor> For some bizarre reason.
  790. # [21:19] <AryehGregor> I actually never learned how to use screen.
  791. # [21:19] <AryehGregor> Never needed to yet.
  792. # [21:20] <gsnedders> AryehGregor: That's what you say before you use it.
  793. # [21:20] <AryehGregor> What else does it do?
  794. # [21:20] <Hixie> screen(1) is fantastic.
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  796. # [21:20] <Hixie> it makes the mapping of terminal client to terminal be many-to-many
  797. # [21:20] <Hixie> so you can just reconnect to an open session
  798. # [21:21] <Hixie> or have multiple open sessions
  799. # [21:21] <Hixie> or whatever
  800. # [21:21] <cheeser> you can share screens remotely ;)
  801. # [21:21] <gsnedders> And then you can hit ctrl+c when someone else is at a password prompt!
  802. # [21:21] <gsnedders> And then before they realize it, you've got their password!
  803. # [21:21] <cheeser> or press space randomly since they can't see the nonechoed input anyway.
  804. # [21:22] <gsnedders> indeed
  805. # [21:22] <Hixie> my favourite use: i was ssh'ed into a session on a remote host from a laptop. My partner's cat walks over and sits on my keyboard to get my attention. So I drag out my other laptop and just ssh in -- yay screen, i could pick up where i left off.
  806. # [21:22] <Hixie> the cat was quite miffed.
  807. # [21:22] <cheeser> heh
  808. # [21:23] <AryehGregor> Okay, I'm sold.
  809. # [21:23] <AryehGregor> I'll have to learn how to use it.
  810. # [21:23] <gsnedders> Hixie: How many cats do you have around you now? :P
  811. # [21:23] <Hixie> one and three quarters.
  812. # [21:23] <Hixie> actually the three quarters is outside
  813. # [21:23] <Hixie> so one
  814. # [21:23] <gsnedders> Well, not at this very moment in time.
  815. # [21:23] <Hixie> AryehGregor: put screen -a -A -xRR -U -e^Pp in your .bash_profile
  816. # [21:23] <gsnedders> But in general
  817. # [21:24] <gsnedders> But how many cats does your partner have?
  818. # [21:24] * gsnedders original wrote that with cats and partner the other way around… uh…
  819. # [21:24] <Hixie> AryehGregor: then hit ^P ^C to open a new terminal, ^P ^N and ^P ^H to go to the next/previous terminal, ^P ^P to toggle with the last terminal, and ^P 0-9 to jump to the 0-9th terminal
  820. # [21:25] <gsnedders> ^P " to list all termianls
  821. # [21:25] <gsnedders> *terminals
  822. # [21:25] <AryehGregor> Why ^P instead of the default ^A?
  823. # [21:25] <Hixie> because i use ^A to go to the start of the line
  824. # [21:25] <AryehGregor> I use Home for that, since I only use desktops.
  825. # [21:26] <Hixie> oh and ^P ? to get help if you need it
  826. # [21:26] <Hixie> if you don't use ^A then feel free to remove the -e^Pp part of the command line :-)
  827. # [21:27] <AryehGregor> Is there any reason to use screen to manage multiple terminals, instead of just using tabs?
  828. # [21:27] <AryehGregor> Also, does anything bad happen now if I close my terminal without typing "exit" or such?
  829. # [21:27] <AryehGregor> (like lots of screens accumulating forever?)
  830. # [21:28] <Hixie> you can use tabs too
  831. # [21:28] <Hixie> do both
  832. # [21:28] <Hixie> that way if you need to connect from a single tab, you can still do that and use all the screens
  833. # [21:28] <Hixie> but you can still connect multiple times and have each tab be a different screen in screen(1)
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  835. # [21:30] <Hixie> (that's what all the "-a -A -xRR -U" stuff does -- it makes it so there's one session and you can connect as many times as you want)
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  838. # [21:30] <AryehGregor> Wait, so now if I connect from multiple tabs, I'll get the same screen in all of them, right? So I'll want to do ^A^C to make some new ones, or occupy my existing ones once I've got them established.
  839. # [21:31] <AryehGregor> Okay, let me fiddle with this now.
  840. # [21:31] <Hixie> yeah, by default with those arguments each instance will connect to the same screen, but then you can change it to be whichever you want
  841. # [21:31] <Hixie> basically it's like each tab can see all the other tabs
  842. # [21:31] <AryehGregor> Why does it say "Attaching from inside of screen?" every time I connect?
  843. # [21:32] <Hixie> if you put it in .bash_profile, then opening a shell connects already
  844. # [21:32] <AryehGregor> Yeah, I did.
  845. # [21:33] <Hixie> gotta go, bbiab, sorry for leaving you with a weird setup :-) you'll figure it out :-) see man screen !
  846. # [21:33] <gsnedders> Or ask here :)
  847. # [21:33] <gsnedders> You get that message every time you connect to a screen from within sceen
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  849. # [21:34] <AryehGregor> What does "from within screen" mean?
  850. # [21:34] * AryehGregor reads man screen
  851. # [21:34] <gsnedders> Like, when you're in a terminal in a screen window
  852. # [21:35] <cheeser> recursive screen connects
  853. # [21:35] <gsnedders> Basically: you probably don't want screen running within screen
  854. # [21:35] <AryehGregor> I just put the command Hixie told me to into my .bash_profile or equivalent.
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  858. # [21:40] <jgraham> AryehGregor: (if you are using Ubuntu it comes wih some utility to make fancy .screen files)
  859. # [21:40] <AryehGregor> I am.
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  861. # [21:40] <jgraham> screen-profile or something. I think it is supposed to run the first time you run screen though
  862. # [21:40] <jgraham> So if it didn't I don't know how to fix it
  863. # [21:41] <jgraham> Because I tried installing it and it didn't work...
  864. # [21:41] <jgraham> (after I was already using screen)
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  871. # [21:48] * AryehGregor finds screen on Solaris behaves differently, adds a conditional to his .bash_profile to avoid it
  872. # [21:49] <AryehGregor> Oh, hmm.
  873. # [21:50] <AryehGregor> Maybe what happens is that I log in, it starts a screen, the screen starts bash, bash tries to start screen, . . .
  874. # [21:50] * AryehGregor got a whole procession of screens on Solaris, had to hold down Ctrl-D to kill them all
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  876. # [21:52] * Edogaa is now known as Animeking
  877. # [21:58] * AryehGregor uses if ! [ "$TERM" = 'screen' ]; then ...
  878. # [21:59] <AryehGregor> Now I feel like I'm living in the Matrix. I have this magical screen thing, and if I do Ctrl-A d I get back to real life temporarily.
  879. # [22:00] <cheeser> that's so 20th century. Inception is the modern meme. ;)
  880. # [22:02] <AryehGregor> Well, the Matrix movies were practically the last movies I ever watched, so I probably won't watch that.
  881. # [22:02] <cheeser> haha. nice.
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  883. # [22:05] <gsnedders> Inception was pretty good
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  885. # [22:09] <AryehGregor> Okay, "man screen" is absurdly long.
  886. # [22:10] <AryehGregor> $ man screen | wc
  887. # [22:10] <AryehGregor> 2566 21969 152831
  888. # [22:10] <gsnedders> Uh, yeah. I've never read it all.
  889. # [22:10] <AryehGregor> No way am I reading that whole thing.
  890. # [22:10] <AryehGregor> I'll work it out as I go along.
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  893. # [22:10] <gsnedders> Irn-bru cocktails? Oh dear…
  894. # [22:10] <gsnedders> Sometimes things on Facebook scare me
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  897. # [22:15] <hober> put "nethack on" in .screenrc for extra awesomeness
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  900. # [22:19] <hober> also, "term screen-256color" is great assuming the terminal app you use supports 256 colors (sadly Mac OS X's Terminal.app doesn't)
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  930. # [23:22] * Quits: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cable.ziggo.nl)
  931. # [23:23] * Joins: Rik` (~Rik`@pha75-2-81-57-187-57.fbx.proxad.net)
  932. # [23:25] <annevk5> gmail down?
  933. # [23:27] <sean`> nope
  934. # [23:27] <sean`> guess they don't want you there anymore
  935. # [23:28] <annevk5> gar
  936. # [23:29] * Joins: TabAtkins_ (~chatzilla@12.192.108.205)
  937. # [23:32] * Quits: Edogaa (~Animeking@adsl-64-181-174.mia.bellsouth.net) (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
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  940. # [23:35] <annevk5> getting 502s
  941. # [23:35] * Joins: kennyluck (~kennyluck@114-43-114-184.dynamic.hinet.net)
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  943. # [23:40] * Joins: llrcombs (~11rcombs@c-67-173-106-77.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
  944. # [23:41] <llrcombs> OK, http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/timers.html#dom-navigator-registercontenthandler has a couple flaws I'd like to point out
  945. # [23:41] * Joins: sean` (~Sean@84-106-110-173.cable.quicknet.nl)
  946. # [23:41] <llrcombs> 1. no explanation on how/if registerContentHandler can cause local resources to be opened in a web app
  947. # [23:42] <llrcombs> 2. no explanation/example for what exactly %s is replaced with in registerProtocolHandler
  948. # [23:45] <gsnedders> 1. Surely this follows from the inability for local files to be read by sites? What it applies to seems like intrensically impl-specific behaviour.
  949. # [23:45] <gsnedders> 2. The definition of the url argument seems to have that
  950. # [23:45] <llrcombs> well, then it should be explicitly defined in the spec
  951. # [23:46] <llrcombs> and the url param spec doesn't define if it's supposed to include the protocol name, etc
  952. # [23:46] <annevk5> http://www.boingboing.net/2010/08/17/is-the-web-really-de.html -- lol wtf did Wired do
  953. # [23:47] <annevk5> llrcombs, you can file bugs
  954. # [23:47] <annevk5> llrcombs, or email
  955. # [23:47] * Quits: cypha (~sallabanc@69.50.70.12) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  956. # [23:47] <gsnedders> llrcombs: In terms of conformance requirements for calls to it?
  957. # [23:47] <gsnedders> llrcombs: The UA behaviour is clearly defined
  958. # [23:47] <gsnedders> llrcombs: 'When the user agent uses this URL, it must replace the first occurrence of the exact literal string "%s" with an escaped version of the absolute URL of the content in question (as defined below), then resolve the resulting URL, relative to the base URL of the entry script at the time the registerContentHandler() or registerProtocolHandler() methods were invoked…'
  959. # [23:48] <gsnedders> (follow the xref for resolve, and you'll find out it will work with any relative URL)
  960. # [23:49] <llrcombs> so that's 2
  961. # [23:49] <llrcombs> alrighty
  962. # [23:49] <llrcombs> upon first reading the first bit of this spec, I thought it might send a POST request with the file's contents
  963. # [23:50] <gsnedders> llrcombs: for 1?
  964. # [23:50] <llrcombs> yeah
  965. # [23:50] <llrcombs> then read a bit more
  966. # [23:50] <gsnedders> llrcombs: No, it's quite clearly a GET request
  967. # [23:50] <llrcombs> found it sent a GET request with a URL
  968. # [23:50] <llrcombs> yeah, that's clea
  969. # [23:50] <llrcombs> r
  970. # [23:50] <llrcombs> I just meant that was my thought when i read the first tiny bit of the spec
  971. # [23:50] <llrcombs> no issue in wording or anything
  972. # [23:51] <gsnedders> Yeah, there's plenty of stuff that relies rather heavily on cross-references
  973. # [23:51] <llrcombs> I was a bit confuzed when I saw it was a GET request, as I know web apps can't access file: URLs
  974. # [23:51] <gsnedders> But making it clear everywhere would probably double the length of the spec
  975. # [23:51] <llrcombs> yeah
  976. # [23:51] <llrcombs> I get that
  977. # [23:51] <llrcombs> I didn't say there was a clarity issue with the fact that it's a GET request with the URL
  978. # [23:55] * Joins: Edogaa (~Animeking@adsl-64-181-174.mia.bellsouth.net)
  979. # Session Close: Wed Aug 18 00:00:00 2010

The end :)