/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2010-08-28 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Sat Aug 28 00:00:00 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:00] <sicking> Hixie: with regards to .value. Is IE the only browser that changes the content attribute when .value changes?
  4. # [00:00] <sicking> Hixie: i've always liked the IE model and would love to switch to it, but it might not be safe to do so if only IE is doing that :(
  5. # [00:04] <AryehGregor> This alerts null in Minefield, Chrome dev, Opera 10.60, and "foo" in IE6 (ies4linux). <!doctype html><script>var el = document.createElement("input");el.value = "foo";alert(el.getAttribute("value"));</script>
  6. # [00:04] <AryehGregor> (if that's what you meant)
  7. # [00:13] <Dashiva> Yeah
  8. # [00:14] <Dashiva> .defaultValue assigns to @value, I believe
  9. # [00:15] * Quits: mpilgrim (~mpilgrim@rrcs-98-101-146-174.midsouth.biz.rr.com) (Quit: mpilgrim)
  10. # [00:20] * Quits: chronos (~quassel@unaffiliated/chronos) (Remote host closed the connection)
  11. # [00:21] * Joins: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  12. # [00:23] * Quits: Necrathex (~bleptop@g199099.upc-g.chello.nl) (Quit: Necrathex)
  13. # [00:32] * Quits: FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly) (Quit: swatted to death)
  14. # [00:36] * Quits: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cable.ziggo.nl)
  15. # [00:36] * Quits: jeremyselier_ (~Jeremy@seg75-1-81-57-242-198.fbx.proxad.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  16. # [00:50] <Hixie> sicking: the IE model has all kinds of problems
  17. # [00:50] <Hixie> sicking: e.g. it makes browser autocomplete mutate the DOM
  18. # [00:50] <Hixie> sicking: and it just moves the default value to an IDL attribute instead of the current value
  19. # [00:51] <sicking> Hixie: the latter sounds like a much smaller problem than the general confusion of having .value != getAttribute("value")
  20. # [00:51] <sicking> Hixie: the former i don't quite understand, please elaborate
  21. # [00:51] <Hixie> .value is the current value of the control, right?
  22. # [00:51] <sicking> yup
  23. # [00:52] <Hixie> if changing .value changes the DOM, then when the UA loads the page and autofills a control, the DOM has to change
  24. # [00:52] <Hixie> so you're making the browser mutate the DOM on page load
  25. # [00:52] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  26. # [00:52] <Hixie> this has all kinds of issues
  27. # [00:52] <sicking> Hixie: why is that a problem?
  28. # [00:52] <sicking> such as?
  29. # [00:52] <Hixie> well it kills round-tripping, for one
  30. # [00:53] <sicking> when does autocomplete happen during important round tripping?
  31. # [00:53] <Hixie> *shrug*
  32. # [00:53] <sicking> the parsing algorithm also kills round tripping, no?
  33. # [00:54] <Hixie> seems really bad to me to have the DOM not reflect the markup after load
  34. # [00:54] <Hixie> but in any case this is all highly academic, there's no way we can change all this now
  35. # [00:54] <sicking> well, autocomplete is basically the UA helping the author type
  36. # [00:54] <Hixie> user
  37. # [00:54] <Hixie> but yues
  38. # [00:54] <sicking> sorry, yes
  39. # [00:54] <sicking> and having the DOM change as a result of the user typing doesn't seem bad to me
  40. # [00:55] <Hixie> *shrug*
  41. # [00:55] <Hixie> tell brendan about 15 years ago
  42. # [00:55] <sicking> yeah, probably academic if all other UAs do it the other way
  43. # [00:55] <sicking> Hixie: actually, this wasn't a problem until DOM L1
  44. # [00:55] <sicking> no getAttribute before that
  45. # [00:56] <sicking> and it wasn't really a problem until much later when gecko gained marketshare
  46. # [00:56] <Hixie> ok, tell vidur about 12 years ago
  47. # [00:56] <sicking> i think it's tell me+jst+a few other about 7 years ago
  48. # [00:56] <sicking> or possibly even tell you about 3 years ago when you wrote this
  49. # [00:57] <Hixie> by the time i specced it i was just speccing current practice
  50. # [00:57] <Hixie> and really put very little thought into the logic of it
  51. # [00:58] <sicking> well, you probably at that point could have chosen either IE behavior or gecko behavior
  52. # [00:59] <sicking> but possibly too late now i agree
  53. # [00:59] <Hixie> the IE behaviour really wasn't anywhere near as logical as you're making out
  54. # [00:59] <Hixie> e.g. it threw exceptions when you set .type
  55. # [00:59] <Hixie> which i hope we are in agreement is a non-starter
  56. # [01:03] * Joins: nessy (~Adium@124-169-0-56.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  57. # [01:04] * Quits: oal (~oal@5.79-160-122.customer.lyse.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  58. # [01:04] * Joins: riven` (~riven@53518387.cable.casema.nl)
  59. # [01:04] * Quits: dpranke (~Adium@nat/google/x-xsbxkcnnbbolxlty) (Quit: Leaving.)
  60. # [01:07] * Quits: riven (~riven@53518387.cable.casema.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  61. # [01:10] * Quits: nessy (~Adium@124-169-0-56.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Quit: Leaving.)
  62. # [01:23] * Quits: boaz (~boaz@64.119.159.231) (Quit: boaz)
  63. # [01:26] * Joins: boaz (~boaz@64.119.159.231)
  64. # [01:29] * Quits: boaz (~boaz@64.119.159.231) (Client Quit)
  65. # [01:36] * Quits: jrgarrison (~garrison@wikiotics/jrgarrison) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  66. # [01:37] * Quits: nimbupani (~nimbupani@216.127.61.149) (Quit: nimbupani)
  67. # [01:50] * Quits: paul_irish (~paul_iris@nat/google/x-foypvjdfonnzayet) (Remote host closed the connection)
  68. # [01:51] * Quits: cardona507 (~cardona50@c-67-180-160-250.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: zzzzz)
  69. # [01:52] * Joins: nessy (~Adium@74.125.56.18)
  70. # [02:00] * Quits: seanoshea (~seanoshea@nat217.eye.fi) (Quit: seanoshea)
  71. # [02:02] * Quits: dave_levin (~dave_levi@nat/google/x-gcbojtivdregrlkg) (Quit: dave_levin)
  72. # [02:06] * Quits: bobchao (~cctw@112.105.140.77) (Quit: Leaving.)
  73. # [02:16] * Quits: JoePeck (~JoePeck@2620:0:1b00:1f08:fa1e:dfff:fed9:b9a) (Quit: JoePeck)
  74. # [02:28] * Joins: JoePeck (~JoePeck@17.244.13.106)
  75. # [02:29] * Quits: mdelaney (~mdelaney@2620:0:1b00:1191:d69a:20ff:febf:89a0) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  76. # [02:34] * Quits: f1lt3r (~f1lt3r@64.119.159.231) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  77. # [02:34] * Quits: ap (~ap@17.246.19.116) (Quit: ap)
  78. # [02:34] * Joins: f1lt3r (~f1lt3r@64.119.159.231)
  79. # [02:38] * Joins: Phae (~Phae@chimera.macmillan.com)
  80. # [02:41] * Quits: gavin_ (~gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  81. # [02:41] * Joins: gavin_ (~gavin@firefox/developer/gavin)
  82. # [02:48] * Joins: agektmr (~Adium@2401:fa00:4:1012:fa1e:dfff:fee6:d74e)
  83. # [02:48] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@EM111-188-34-247.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  84. # [02:54] * Joins: kennyluck (~kennyluck@EM111-188-12-179.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  85. # [02:54] * Quits: ZombieLoffe (~e@unaffiliated/zombieloffe)
  86. # [02:55] * Quits: cyphase (~cyphase@adsl-99-34-76-56.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  87. # [02:58] * Quits: jacobolu_ (~jacobolus@c-65-96-171-250.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  88. # [02:59] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@c-65-96-171-250.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
  89. # [03:11] * Joins: cgcardona_androi (~cgcardona@68-27-189-248.pools.spcsdns.net)
  90. # [03:17] * Joins: AndChat- (~cgcardona@72-62-188-4.pools.spcsdns.net)
  91. # [03:19] * Quits: sicking (~chatzilla@nat/mozilla/x-jdalwyfxdrgoxyoo) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  92. # [03:21] * Quits: cgcardona_androi (~cgcardona@68-27-189-248.pools.spcsdns.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  93. # [03:21] * Quits: AndChat- (~cgcardona@72-62-188-4.pools.spcsdns.net) (Client Quit)
  94. # [03:32] * Quits: gavin_ (~gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (Disconnected by services)
  95. # [03:32] * Joins: gavin__ (~gavin@CPE001346f5db49-CM0018c0db9a8a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  96. # [03:41] * Quits: JoePeck (~JoePeck@17.244.13.106) (Quit: -)
  97. # [03:45] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@24.42.95.108)
  98. # [03:45] * Joins: JoePeck (~JoePeck@2620:0:1b00:1f08:fa1e:dfff:fed9:b9a)
  99. # [03:45] * Quits: JoePeck (~JoePeck@2620:0:1b00:1f08:fa1e:dfff:fed9:b9a) (Client Quit)
  100. # [03:48] * Joins: JoePeck (~JoePeck@17.244.13.106)
  101. # [03:56] * Quits: JoePeck (~JoePeck@17.244.13.106) (Quit: -)
  102. # [03:58] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@c-65-96-171-250.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  103. # [03:59] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@24.42.95.108) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  104. # [04:01] * Quits: yutak_home (~kee@U017209.ppp.dion.ne.jp) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  105. # [04:02] * Joins: paul_irish (~paul_iris@c-76-21-40-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  106. # [04:02] * Quits: ojan (~ojan@nat/google/x-lgjqefeqfsvfghuz) (Quit: ojan)
  107. # [04:14] * Quits: agektmr (~Adium@2401:fa00:4:1012:fa1e:dfff:fee6:d74e) (Quit: Leaving.)
  108. # [04:14] * Joins: nimbupani (~nimbupani@c-24-22-131-46.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  109. # [04:15] * Joins: dglazkov (~dglazkov@75-37-194-175.lightspeed.lsatca.sbcglobal.net)
  110. # [04:23] * Joins: gavin_ (~gavin@people.mozilla.com)
  111. # [04:23] * Quits: gavin_ (~gavin@people.mozilla.com) (Changing host)
  112. # [04:23] * Joins: gavin_ (~gavin@firefox/developer/gavin)
  113. # [04:24] * gavin_ is now known as gavin
  114. # [04:36] * Quits: paul_irish (~paul_iris@c-76-21-40-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  115. # [04:38] * Joins: othree (~othree@140.118.5.39)
  116. # [04:40] * Joins: agektmr (~Adium@2401:fa00:4:1012:fa1e:dfff:fee6:d74e)
  117. # [04:44] * Quits: eric_carlson (~ericc@2620:0:1b00:1191:223:32ff:feb1:5d30) (Quit: eric_carlson)
  118. # [04:51] * Joins: wakaba_0 (~wakaba_@134.157.197.113.dy.bbexcite.jp)
  119. # [04:55] * Joins: cyphase (~cyphase@adsl-99-69-96-31.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
  120. # [04:55] * Quits: cyphase (~cyphase@adsl-99-69-96-31.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  121. # [04:56] * Quits: nimbupani (~nimbupani@c-24-22-131-46.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: nimbupani)
  122. # [04:57] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachlan@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no)
  123. # [05:00] * Joins: paul_irish (~paul_iris@32.174.58.101)
  124. # [05:03] * Quits: agektmr (~Adium@2401:fa00:4:1012:fa1e:dfff:fee6:d74e) (Quit: Leaving.)
  125. # [05:11] * Quits: paul_irish (~paul_iris@32.174.58.101) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  126. # [05:12] * Joins: nimbupani (~nimbupani@c-24-22-131-46.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  127. # [05:22] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachlan@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no) (Quit: Leaving)
  128. # [05:23] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachlan@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no)
  129. # [05:36] * Joins: cardona507 (~cardona50@c-67-180-160-250.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  130. # [05:42] * Quits: MikeSmithX (~MikeSmith@EM114-48-41-49.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  131. # [05:47] * Joins: MikeSmithX (~MikeSmith@EM114-48-162-149.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  132. # [05:50] * dglazkov is now known as trungl_overlord
  133. # [05:50] * Quits: gavin__ (~gavin@CPE001346f5db49-CM0018c0db9a8a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  134. # [05:53] * trungl_overlord is now known as dglazkov
  135. # [05:57] * Joins: gavin_ (~gavin@firefox/developer/gavin)
  136. # [05:58] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@EM111-188-12-179.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  137. # [06:10] * Joins: agektmr (~Adium@2401:fa00:4:1012:fa1e:dfff:fee6:d74e)
  138. # [06:21] * Joins: hdhoang0 (~hdhoang@hdhoang.zahe.me)
  139. # [06:30] * MikeSmithX is now known as MikeSmith
  140. # [06:33] * Quits: nimbupani (~nimbupani@c-24-22-131-46.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: nimbupani)
  141. # [06:46] * Quits: dglazkov (~dglazkov@75-37-194-175.lightspeed.lsatca.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: dglazkov)
  142. # [07:08] * Joins: paul_irish (~paul_iris@166.135.30.38)
  143. # [07:09] * Quits: paul_irish (~paul_iris@166.135.30.38) (Remote host closed the connection)
  144. # [07:22] * Joins: eric_carlson (~ericc@adsl-67-112-12-110.dsl.anhm01.pacbell.net)
  145. # [07:24] * Joins: onar_ (~onar@c-67-169-86-105.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  146. # [07:28] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@c-68-40-243-245.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  147. # [07:34] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@c-68-40-243-245.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
  148. # [07:42] * Joins: sicking (~chatzilla@c-98-210-155-80.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  149. # [07:48] * Quits: romeo_ (~romeo__@x1-6-00-02-44-60-6c-8e.k602.webspeed.dk) (Quit: Leaving)
  150. # [07:51] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@c-68-40-243-245.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) (Quit: night)
  151. # [07:52] * Joins: jeremyselier_ (~Jeremy@seg75-1-81-57-242-198.fbx.proxad.net)
  152. # [08:24] * Quits: ako (~nya@fuld-4d00d5e0.pool.mediaWays.net) (Quit: EXEC_over.METHOD_SUBLIMATION)
  153. # [08:42] * Quits: jlebar (~jlebar@nat/mozilla/x-hnuospzrpnswoexi) (Quit: Leaving)
  154. # [08:46] <hober> MikeSmith: I figured out that jsdom issue
  155. # [08:46] <MikeSmith> oh?
  156. # [08:46] <MikeSmith> cool
  157. # [08:46] <MikeSmith> what was the problem?
  158. # [08:47] <hober> If you require('jsdom/level1/core') instead of require('jsdom/level2/core'), it works
  159. # [08:47] * MikeSmith tries it
  160. # [08:47] <hober> var DOM = browser.browserAugmentation(require('jsdom/level1/core').dom.level1.core)
  161. # [08:47] <hober> (is the replacement for the relevant line)
  162. # [08:48] <MikeSmith> seet
  163. # [08:48] <MikeSmith> sweet
  164. # [08:48] <MikeSmith> I guess the level2 stuff is pre-alpha
  165. # [08:48] <hober> yeah
  166. # [08:48] <hober> html->atom is much nicer with things like createElementNS
  167. # [08:48] <hober> but I guess I can fake it for now
  168. # [08:49] <MikeSmith> yeah
  169. # [08:49] <MikeSmith> so after that change is htmlparser working now for you? (for what you were using it for)
  170. # [08:50] <MikeSmith> and should I post a follow-up comment to the bug you pointed me to before?
  171. # [08:51] <hober> Oh. I haven't been using node-htmlparser at all; I've been using aredridel/html5
  172. # [08:51] <hober> which is essentially html5lib in js
  173. # [08:52] <MikeSmith> hober: yeah, that's the one I meant
  174. # [08:52] <hober> aredridel/html5 has been working for me. at least, last I remember screwing with this stuff it seemed to work.
  175. # [08:53] <hober> but creating new documents from whole cloth was failing, and now I know it's due to my premature desire to use level 2 DOM methods.
  176. # [08:53] <MikeSmith> among other things, I'm wondering how its performance is relative to html5lib (python) or to whatever non-HTML5 parsers you might have tried (e.g., the HTML parser in libxml2)
  177. # [08:53] * Quits: cying (~cying@c-24-4-120-70.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: cying)
  178. # [08:53] <hober> for my current purposes (offline, static site generation), I'm not terribly concerned about performance
  179. # [08:55] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@209-6-51-65.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com)
  180. # [08:56] <MikeSmith> ok
  181. # [08:58] <hober> (that said, I imagine I'm the outlier, Node.js-wise, insofar as performance concerns go.)
  182. # [08:59] <hober> I'm working on a publication workflow in which the "pretty this HTML up for publication" logic can happen browser-side, during composition, and server-side, when the publish button is pressed
  183. # [08:59] <hober> (the prettyifying code being exactly the same)
  184. # [09:02] * Quits: Amorphous (jan@unaffiliated/amorphous) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  185. # [09:03] <MikeSmith> yeah, that's a really nice advantage to have
  186. # [09:03] <MikeSmith> (being able to use the same code server side and client both)
  187. # [09:04] <hober> The longer-term idea I'm working on, in a somewhat cryptic tweet: http://twitter.com/hober/status/15739328281
  188. # [09:09] * Joins: wakaba_1 (~wakaba_@134.157.197.113.dy.bbexcite.jp)
  189. # [09:11] * Quits: wakaba_0 (~wakaba_@134.157.197.113.dy.bbexcite.jp) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  190. # [09:17] * Joins: cying (~cying@c-24-4-120-70.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  191. # [09:17] * Joins: Amorphous (jan@unaffiliated/amorphous)
  192. # [09:23] * Quits: onar_ (~onar@c-67-169-86-105.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: onar_)
  193. # [09:27] * Quits: Phae (~Phae@chimera.macmillan.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  194. # [09:33] * Quits: cying (~cying@c-24-4-120-70.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: cying)
  195. # [09:42] * Joins: paul_irish (~paul_iris@c-76-21-40-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  196. # [09:45] <MikeSmith> hober: interesting
  197. # [09:45] * Quits: nessy (~Adium@74.125.56.18) (Quit: Leaving.)
  198. # [09:48] * Quits: cardona507 (~cardona50@c-67-180-160-250.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  199. # [09:48] * Joins: cardona507 (~cardona50@c-67-180-160-250.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  200. # [09:54] * Quits: paul_irish (~paul_iris@c-76-21-40-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  201. # [09:55] * Joins: Ankheg (~Ankheg@94.158.192.212)
  202. # [10:04] * Quits: sicking (~chatzilla@c-98-210-155-80.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  203. # [10:12] * Joins: oal (~oal@5.79-160-122.customer.lyse.net)
  204. # [10:25] * Quits: eric_carlson (~ericc@adsl-67-112-12-110.dsl.anhm01.pacbell.net) (Quit: eric_carlson)
  205. # [10:30] <gsnedders> jgraham: Listening to Rasputina again, I again conclude they're not my sort of music.
  206. # [10:38] * Joins: ROBOd (~robod@89.123.175.241)
  207. # [10:40] * Joins: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cable.ziggo.nl)
  208. # [10:53] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@cm-84.208.74.81.getinternet.no)
  209. # [10:56] * Quits: agektmr (~Adium@2401:fa00:4:1012:fa1e:dfff:fee6:d74e) (Quit: Leaving.)
  210. # [11:01] * Joins: FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly)
  211. # [11:11] * Joins: ZombieLoffe (~e@unaffiliated/zombieloffe)
  212. # [11:15] * Quits: jeremyselier_ (~Jeremy@seg75-1-81-57-242-198.fbx.proxad.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  213. # [11:15] * Joins: yutak_home (~kee@U017209.ppp.dion.ne.jp)
  214. # [11:18] * Joins: Phae (~Phae@chimera.macmillan.com)
  215. # [11:22] * Joins: matjas (~matjas@91.182.185.12)
  216. # [11:25] * Quits: gavin_ (~gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (Disconnected by services)
  217. # [11:25] * Joins: gavin__ (~gavin@CPE001346f5db49-CM0018c0db9a8a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  218. # [11:31] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@pool-173-49-138-124.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
  219. # [11:34] * Quits: cardona507 (~cardona50@c-67-180-160-250.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: zzzzz)
  220. # [11:37] <annevk> Hixie, <details> changes the DOM based on user interaction
  221. # [11:39] * Joins: MikeSmithX (~MikeSmith@EM111-188-67-99.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  222. # [11:42] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM114-48-162-149.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  223. # [11:52] * Joins: gratz|home (~gratz@cpc3-brig15-2-0-cust237.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com)
  224. # [12:02] * riven` is now known as riven
  225. # [12:06] * Joins: maikmerten (~merten@m83-185-25-32.cust.tele2.se)
  226. # [12:08] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-40-84.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
  227. # [12:21] <annevk> I wish I had paid closer attention to DOM Events
  228. # [12:43] <MikeSmithX> annevk: you mean because you think it has problems that should have been fixed before now?
  229. # [12:48] <annevk> I think it might have and I think it would have helped to point them out at early stages
  230. # [12:49] <MikeSmithX> I see
  231. # [12:49] <MikeSmithX> I guess that's true in general of any spec
  232. # [12:49] <annevk> Yep
  233. # [12:50] <annevk> See e.g. all the RDF nonsense to describe something as simple as WAI-ARIA
  234. # [12:50] <MikeSmithX> but some are more important than others and it doesn't harm as much to have ignored them
  235. # [12:50] <annevk> makes it completely unreadable, but it's not going to change for this edition
  236. # [12:50] <MikeSmithX> oh
  237. # [12:51] <MikeSmithX> I can see that's a problem
  238. # [12:51] <MikeSmithX> but not quite as serious as I thought you might have meant
  239. # [12:52] <annevk> well, real serious ends up getting ignored at the implementation stage
  240. # [12:52] <MikeSmithX> yeah
  241. # [12:52] <annevk> e.g. various things that were once in SVG 1.2
  242. # [12:52] * MikeSmithX is now known as MikeSmith
  243. # [12:52] <MikeSmith> yeah, i know
  244. # [12:52] <MikeSmith> as far as browsers go at least
  245. # [12:53] <MikeSmith> which is what's really important of course
  246. # [12:53] <annevk> semi-serious things -- like how the CSS syntax is insanely complicated if you look at the details while it did not have to be at all -- need to be tackled sooner rather than later
  247. # [12:54] <MikeSmith> um, what's exactly the RDF part you're referring to?
  248. # [12:54] <annevk> there's no reason that the character sequence "@namespace" can be written in near-infinite ways
  249. # [12:55] <annevk> http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/roles is full of it
  250. # [12:55] <annevk> "superclassing" "subclassing" etc.
  251. # [12:56] <annevk> all kinds of complexity that a) authors are not interested in and b) implementations are not either
  252. # [13:08] <MikeSmith> on the face of it, that seems like the same kind of overengineering that's a misfeature of a lot of specs
  253. # [13:09] <MikeSmith> but maybe it could be useful in some complex apps
  254. # [13:09] <MikeSmith> I mean, I don't myself know all what's involved in adding ARIA to a complex app like Gmail or whatever
  255. # [13:12] <MikeSmith> hmm, I think browsing with Disable Caches set in Webkit/Safari seems to possibly be a great way to cause the fan on your laptop to run at high speeds continuously
  256. # [13:13] <MikeSmith> I think it might be causing "Safari Webpage Preview Fetcher" to keep launching and re-launching to fetch previews of pages that then don't get cached anywhere, and so it fetches them again and again
  257. # [13:13] <MikeSmith> maybe
  258. # [13:14] <MikeSmith> "defaults write com.apple.Safari DebugSnapshotsUpdatePolicy -int 2" seems to possibly be the way to stop it
  259. # [13:16] <MikeSmith> sitepoint.com pop-ups are really cheesy
  260. # [13:17] <MikeSmith> I thought the people behind Sitepoint were better than that
  261. # [13:23] <hsivonen> the inconsistency of the format support table at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML5_video annoys me again. It's even more bogus thatn before.
  262. # [13:23] * Quits: mihaip (~mihaip@nat/google/x-hycfwgrudpumfbms) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  263. # [13:23] <hsivonen> I vented on the talk page, since the page itself is guarded by a user with an intimidatingly long user page
  264. # [13:24] <hsivonen> people with *huge* user pages always have the time to out-revert you, so why even bother
  265. # [13:37] * Quits: espadrine (~yannt@AMontsouris-157-1-84-80.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  266. # [13:38] * Joins: kennyluck (~kennyluck@EM111-188-65-49.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  267. # [13:38] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@EM111-188-65-49.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Excess Flood)
  268. # [13:41] * Joins: kennyluck (~kennyluck@EM111-188-65-49.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  269. # [13:43] * Joins: espadrine (~yannt@AMontsouris-157-1-41-32.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr)
  270. # [13:56] * Joins: nessy (~Adium@124-169-0-56.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  271. # [14:36] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachlan@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no) (Quit: Leaving)
  272. # [14:36] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachlan@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no)
  273. # [14:51] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@pool-173-49-138-124.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  274. # [15:06] * Quits: henrikbjorn (~henrik@c83-249-67-60.bredband.comhem.se) (Quit: henrikbjorn)
  275. # [15:06] * Joins: cyphase (~cyphase@adsl-99-69-96-31.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
  276. # [15:06] * Joins: henrikbjorn (~henrik@c83-249-67-60.bredband.comhem.se)
  277. # [15:40] * Joins: Rik` (~Rik`@mozilla-paris-222-194.cnt.nerim.net)
  278. # [15:41] * Joins: seventh (seventh@64-9-157-182.fwd.datafoundry.com)
  279. # [15:49] * Quits: yutak_home (~kee@U017209.ppp.dion.ne.jp) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  280. # [16:21] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@EM111-188-65-49.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Quit: kennyluck)
  281. # [16:24] * Joins: Necrathex (~bleptop@g199099.upc-g.chello.nl)
  282. # [16:33] * Quits: nessy (~Adium@124-169-0-56.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Quit: Leaving.)
  283. # [16:48] * Quits: variable (~variable@unaffiliated/variable) (Quit: Daemon escaped from pentagram)
  284. # [16:56] * Quits: Rik` (~Rik`@mozilla-paris-222-194.cnt.nerim.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  285. # [17:05] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@dslb-088-075-056-239.pools.arcor-ip.net) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  286. # [17:07] * Quits: matjas (~matjas@91.182.185.12) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  287. # [17:08] * Joins: Heimidal (~heimidal@unaffiliated/heimidal)
  288. # [17:10] * Joins: cardona507_ (~cardona50@c-67-180-160-250.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  289. # [17:11] * Joins: nimbupani (~nimbupani@c-24-22-131-46.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  290. # [17:16] * Joins: kennyluck (~kennyluck@EM111-188-92-205.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  291. # [17:19] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM111-188-67-99.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Quit: The curfew tolls the knell of parting day... the plowman homeward plods his weary way)
  292. # [17:20] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM111-188-67-99.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  293. # [17:32] * Joins: cying (~cying@c-24-4-120-70.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  294. # [17:39] * Joins: MikeSmithX (~MikeSmith@EM114-48-196-49.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  295. # [17:43] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM111-188-67-99.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  296. # [17:44] <Dashiva> So there's no window in workers, only self?
  297. # [17:47] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@209-6-51-65.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  298. # [17:49] <annevk> yup
  299. # [17:50] * Joins: paul_irish (~paul_iris@nat/google/x-sfzlhbuftweaiwnv)
  300. # [18:01] * Quits: cying (~cying@c-24-4-120-70.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: cying)
  301. # [18:02] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-40-84.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  302. # [18:08] * Joins: onar_ (~onar@c-67-169-86-105.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  303. # [18:08] * Quits: onar_ (~onar@c-67-169-86-105.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
  304. # [18:11] * Quits: paul_irish (~paul_iris@nat/google/x-sfzlhbuftweaiwnv) (Remote host closed the connection)
  305. # [18:16] * Joins: virtuelv (~virtuelv_@65.168.34.95.customer.cdi.no)
  306. # [18:25] * Quits: nimbupani (~nimbupani@c-24-22-131-46.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: nimbupani)
  307. # [18:27] * Joins: matjas (~matjas@ip-213-49-114-20.dsl.scarlet.be)
  308. # [18:31] * Joins: _temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01)
  309. # [18:32] * Quits: wakaba_ (~wakaba@134.157.197.113.dy.bbexcite.jp) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  310. # [18:32] * Joins: wakaba (~wakaba@134.157.197.113.dy.bbexcite.jp)
  311. # [18:33] * Quits: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01) (Disconnected by services)
  312. # [18:33] * _temp01 is now known as temp01
  313. # [18:44] * temp01 is now known as mmmm01
  314. # [18:45] * mmmm01 is now known as temp01
  315. # [18:51] * Quits: espadrine (~yannt@AMontsouris-157-1-41-32.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  316. # [18:53] * Joins: espadrine (~yannt@AMontsouris-157-1-114-152.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr)
  317. # [18:53] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-40-84.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
  318. # [18:57] * Quits: stalled (~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  319. # [19:02] * MikeSmithX is now known as MikeSmith
  320. # [19:04] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: dunno how much time if any you've had lately to think about migrating the v.nu sources to a git or mercurial hosting service, but I wanted to say I'd be willing to do the work to make it happen
  321. # [19:05] <MikeSmith> that is, dealing with actually getting them migrated over, as well as updating the build script and whatever else would be needed
  322. # [19:05] <MikeSmith> github seems like it might best place to consider moving to
  323. # [19:07] <MikeSmith> for among other reasons the network effects of the fact that there are so many very active developers there
  324. # [19:09] <hober> github supports svn, btw
  325. # [19:10] <hober> (see http://github.com/blog/644-subversion-write-support for more)
  326. # [19:13] <MikeSmith> hober: part of the motivation is to get away from svn, actually
  327. # [19:13] <MikeSmith> at least on my part
  328. # [19:14] <MikeSmith> I've never been a big subversion fan
  329. # [19:14] <MikeSmith> I really that github makes it dead simple to fork repos
  330. # [19:14] <hober> github's svn support is actually git-backed. it lets people who aren't yet comfortable with git use something familiar while the other collaborators forge on ahead with git
  331. # [19:14] <MikeSmith> ah, I see
  332. # [19:14] <MikeSmith> well that's good then
  333. # [19:15] <hober> e.g. svn checkout http://svn.github.com/sideshowbarker/jsblog.git
  334. # [19:16] <hober> (use https for a read/write checkout)
  335. # [19:16] * Joins: stalled (~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled)
  336. # [19:19] * Joins: matjas_ (~matjas@ip-213-49-92-188.dsl.scarlet.be)
  337. # [19:19] <MikeSmith> cool
  338. # [19:20] <MikeSmith> there more I use github, the more I like it
  339. # [19:20] <MikeSmith> it ain't perfect but it was clearly designed by people with clue
  340. # [19:20] * Quits: matjas (~matjas@ip-213-49-114-20.dsl.scarlet.be) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  341. # [19:21] <MikeSmith> and in general it just seems to work the way a system like that ought to
  342. # [19:21] <hober> yeah, those guys are rad
  343. # [19:22] <MikeSmith> the ease of forking and the culture really encourage experimentation
  344. # [19:23] <MikeSmith> I think getting the validator.nu sources available there might help a lot toward getting some code contributions for yet-to-be-implemented features and bugs too
  345. # [19:23] <MikeSmith> it'd raise more awareness about it and hopeflly get some more good devs involved
  346. # [19:29] <MikeSmith> heh
  347. # [19:29] <MikeSmith> http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6995033/ is pretty good
  348. # [19:29] <MikeSmith> the first couple of minutes at least
  349. # [19:47] <micheil> MikeSmith: still working on your KO?
  350. # [19:49] <MikeSmith> well, I'm just working on a personal KO
  351. # [19:50] <MikeSmith> I don't want to embarrass myself by bringing much attention to it yet
  352. # [19:50] <MikeSmith> but so far I've messed around a bit with express, Connect, and the ext.js stuff
  353. # [19:51] <MikeSmith> and it's all really quite nice
  354. # [19:52] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
  355. # [19:52] <MikeSmith> and of course the fork I made of brianleroux's wtfs stuff
  356. # [19:53] <MikeSmith> gotta love that dude
  357. # [19:53] <MikeSmith> his comments in the "templating" part of that About page for that site are great
  358. # [19:55] <MikeSmith> [[
  359. # [19:55] <MikeSmith> Nothing is perfect. And sometimes shit is just plain wack. The ExpressJS framework is seriously awesome but it has a hardon for HAML which solves problems I do not have. I opted, out of lazyness, for EJS which is not beautiful; tho it is functional.
  360. # [19:55] <MikeSmith> ]]
  361. # [19:55] <MikeSmith> that part
  362. # [19:55] <MikeSmith> http://wtfjs.com/about
  363. # [19:58] <MikeSmith> micheil: what'd you got cooked up for KO?
  364. # [19:59] <micheil> well, I'm judging, but I am working on a canvas game thuing
  365. # [20:00] <micheil> MikeSmith: y'know, I could always track down the repo :P
  366. # [20:00] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@cm-84.208.74.81.getinternet.no) (Quit: annevk)
  367. # [20:02] <MikeSmith> I'm just at the rubbing-two-sticks-together-to-make-fire stage
  368. # [20:02] <MikeSmith> but then again, that's pretty much the stage at which all the code I write remains
  369. # [20:03] <MikeSmith> regardless of what language it's written in
  370. # [20:03] <MikeSmith> a one-man coding WTF
  371. # [20:03] * Joins: nimbupani (~nimbupani@c-24-22-131-46.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  372. # [20:05] * temp01 is now known as away01
  373. # [20:10] * Quits: hdhoang0 (~hdhoang@hdhoang.zahe.me) (Quit: Leaving.)
  374. # [20:20] <micheil> MikeSmith: deployed anything yet?
  375. # [20:21] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
  376. # [20:22] <MikeSmith> nope
  377. # [20:27] * away01 is now known as temp01
  378. # [20:28] * Joins: eric_carlson (~ericc@adsl-67-112-12-110.dsl.anhm01.pacbell.net)
  379. # [20:34] <micheil> MikeSmith: what was your team name?
  380. # [20:34] * Joins: Steve^ (~steve@cpc2-hari1-0-0-cust1111.hari.cable.virginmedia.com)
  381. # [20:34] * Joins: hdhoang0 (~hdhoang@hdhoang.zahe.me)
  382. # [20:34] <MikeSmith> no team, man
  383. # [20:35] <micheil> do you wish to have a team?
  384. # [20:35] <micheil> that would make you officially part of KO
  385. # [20:35] <MikeSmith> yeah, in general
  386. # [20:36] <MikeSmith> I prefer always to have other people to do my work for me when I can
  387. # [20:36] <micheil> okay, shoot an email to all@nodeknockout.com asking if you could have a team created for yourself
  388. # [20:36] <MikeSmith> hai
  389. # [20:36] <MikeSmith> oh!
  390. # [20:37] <MikeSmith> somebody from japan showing up on the map finally
  391. # [20:37] <MikeSmith> connection
  392. # [20:37] <MikeSmith> walter-sobchak
  393. # [20:39] <hober> I thought he didn't code on shabbas
  394. # [20:40] <MikeSmith> heh
  395. # [20:40] <MikeSmith> they have done some impressive work so far -
  396. # [20:40] <MikeSmith> http://walter-sobchak.no.de/
  397. # [20:41] <MikeSmith> bold, minimalist approach
  398. # [20:41] <micheil> hmm.. does unsaing-daiva keep coming up on the map?
  399. # [20:42] <micheil> *unsaving
  400. # [20:43] * Quits: ZombieLoffe (~e@unaffiliated/zombieloffe)
  401. # [20:44] * Quits: Heimidal (~heimidal@unaffiliated/heimidal) (Remote host closed the connection)
  402. # [20:50] * Joins: bgalbraith (~bgalbrait@c-71-198-27-150.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  403. # [20:51] <MikeSmith> ah, my Webkit nightly seems to have a turned itself into a torture-testing tool for the fan on the laptop
  404. # [20:51] <MikeSmith> to see how long it can continuously run at full speed until it quits completely
  405. # [20:54] * Quits: bgalbraith (~bgalbrait@c-71-198-27-150.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  406. # [20:54] * Joins: bgalbraith (~bgalbrait@c-71-198-27-150.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  407. # [20:55] * Quits: bgalbraith (~bgalbrait@c-71-198-27-150.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  408. # [20:55] * Joins: bgalbraith (~bgalbrait@c-71-198-27-150.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  409. # [20:55] * Quits: micheil (~micheil@124-170-69-59.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  410. # [20:56] <MikeSmith> hmm, or maybe it's just that tab I had up for the xtranormal movie I started making 3 hours ago and forgot about til now...
  411. # [21:02] * Joins: micheil (~micheil@124-170-69-59.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  412. # [21:03] * Quits: hdhoang0 (~hdhoang@hdhoang.zahe.me) (Quit: Leaving.)
  413. # [21:04] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  414. # [21:04] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
  415. # [21:06] <Dashiva> How did noscript get all the way to issue status?
  416. # [21:08] * Quits: matjas_ (~matjas@ip-213-49-92-188.dsl.scarlet.be) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  417. # [21:10] * Quits: seventh (seventh@64-9-157-182.fwd.datafoundry.com) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  418. # [21:11] <Philip`> It was "raised for Shelley Powers" whose "purpose in wanting to file change proposals isn't that I expected any of them to succeed", so presumably the point is just to waste time and/or to make a point
  419. # [21:13] <Dashiva> So there's no filtering at all on issues now, any bug that gets closed has a free promotion card?
  420. # [21:14] * Joins: hdhoang0 (~hdhoang@2001:470:f20e:0:feff:68:111:68)
  421. # [21:17] * Joins: jacobolu_ (~jacobolus@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
  422. # [21:20] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  423. # [21:22] * Joins: JonathanNeal (~Jonathan_@99-59-124-67.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net)
  424. # [21:35] * Joins: aho (~nya@fuld-4d00d7c9.pool.mediaWays.net)
  425. # [21:44] * jacobolu_ is now known as jacobolus
  426. # [21:49] <MikeSmith> hey, it's the voice of micheil
  427. # [21:49] <MikeSmith> http://thechangelog.com/post/927103350/episode-0-3-1-websockets
  428. # [21:49] <micheil> it is
  429. # [21:49] <micheil> didn't I post that?
  430. # [21:50] <micheil> I mean, didn't I post a link to that in here?
  431. # [21:54] <MikeSmith> micheil: probably I missed it
  432. # [21:54] <micheil> okay
  433. # [21:54] <micheil> well, enjoy :)
  434. # [22:00] * Joins: variable (~variable@unaffiliated/variable)
  435. # [22:00] * Quits: hdhoang0 (~hdhoang@2001:470:f20e:0:feff:68:111:68) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  436. # [22:02] * Joins: hdhoang0 (~hdhoang@hdhoang.zahe.me)
  437. # [22:06] * Quits: hdhoang0 (~hdhoang@hdhoang.zahe.me) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  438. # [22:12] <MikeSmith> micheil: you didn't say so much on that podcast
  439. # [22:12] <MikeSmith> those other dudes talk too much
  440. # [22:12] <micheil> not really
  441. # [22:13] <MikeSmith> it was actually pretty interesting though
  442. # [22:13] <micheil> I'm meant to be a host, so, it's focusing on the guests
  443. # [22:14] <micheil> it gets' kinda awkward though when you interview guests and can answer the other's questions
  444. # [22:16] <micheil> hmm.. http://unsaving-daiva.no.de/
  445. # [22:26] * Quits: bgalbraith (~bgalbrait@c-71-198-27-150.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: bgalbraith)
  446. # [22:27] * Joins: bgalbraith (~bgalbrait@c-71-198-27-150.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  447. # [22:28] * Quits: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  448. # [22:30] * Quits: sean` (~Sean@84-106-110-173.cable.quicknet.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  449. # [22:31] * Joins: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01)
  450. # [22:33] * Joins: sean` (~Sean@84-106-110-173.cable.quicknet.nl)
  451. # [22:45] * Quits: JonathanNeal (~Jonathan_@99-59-124-67.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  452. # [22:46] * Joins: dglazkov (~dglazkov@75-37-194-175.lightspeed.lsatca.sbcglobal.net)
  453. # [22:47] * Quits: ROBOd (~robod@89.123.175.241) (Quit: .)
  454. # [22:47] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-40-84.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 4.0b5pre/20100823134346])
  455. # [22:50] * Quits: henrikbjorn (~henrik@c83-249-67-60.bredband.comhem.se) (Remote host closed the connection)
  456. # [22:55] * Quits: espadrine (~yannt@AMontsouris-157-1-114-152.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: espadrine)
  457. # [23:13] * Quits: dglazkov (~dglazkov@75-37-194-175.lightspeed.lsatca.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: dglazkov)
  458. # [23:15] * Joins: kennyluck_ (~kennyluck@EM114-48-2-143.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  459. # [23:19] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@EM111-188-92-205.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  460. # [23:19] * kennyluck_ is now known as kennyluck
  461. # [23:43] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM114-48-196-49.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  462. # [23:48] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM114-48-29-39.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  463. # [23:51] * Joins: eric_carlson_ (~ericc@adsl-67-112-12-110.dsl.anhm01.pacbell.net)
  464. # [23:55] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@EM114-48-2-143.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Quit: kennyluck)
  465. # [23:56] * Joins: gavin_ (~gavin@firefox/developer/gavin)
  466. # [23:57] * Quits: gavin__ (~gavin@CPE001346f5db49-CM0018c0db9a8a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  467. # Session Close: Sun Aug 29 00:00:00 2010

The end :)