/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2010-10-04 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Mon Oct 04 00:00:00 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:03] * Joins: espadrine (~espadrine@acces0670.res.insa-lyon.fr)
  4. # [00:04] <AryehGregor> "Life from fire"?
  5. # [00:06] * Joins: davidhund (~davidhund@dnuhd.xs4all.nl)
  6. # [00:18] * Quits: davidhund (~davidhund@dnuhd.xs4all.nl) (Quit: davidhund)
  7. # [00:24] * Quits: Anti-X (~duckmysic@c9E72BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no)
  8. # [00:36] * Quits: FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly) (Quit: swatted to death)
  9. # [00:37] * Joins: FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly)
  10. # [00:39] * Quits: FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly) (Client Quit)
  11. # [00:46] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@KCMXXXII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  12. # [00:47] * Joins: FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly)
  13. # [00:50] * Quits: tndH (~Rob@cpc6-seac20-2-0-cust102.7-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.1/2008072406])
  14. # [00:51] * Joins: mamund_ (mamund@frost.nullshells.net)
  15. # [00:51] * Joins: karlushi (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  16. # [00:51] * Quits: karlushi (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  17. # [00:52] * Joins: karlushi (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  18. # [00:53] * Quits: matjas (~matjas@ip-81-11-180-97.dsl.scarlet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
  19. # [00:54] * Joins: nw_ (eero@heaven.unlink.org)
  20. # [00:54] * Quits: mamund (mamund@66.90.103.125) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  21. # [00:54] * Quits: volkmar (~volkmar@gentoo/developer/volkmar) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  22. # [00:54] * Quits: hober (~ted@unaffiliated/hober) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  23. # [00:54] * Quits: gavin_ (~gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  24. # [00:54] * Quits: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  25. # [00:54] * Quits: lhnz (~lhnz@188-223-83-48.zone14.bethere.co.uk) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  26. # [00:54] * Quits: payman (~payman@pat.se.opera.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  27. # [00:54] * Quits: wirepair (fbi@random.supermario.org) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  28. # [00:54] * Quits: nw (eero@heaven.unlink.org) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  29. # [00:54] * Joins: volkmar (~volkmar@rps1542.ovh.net)
  30. # [00:54] * Quits: volkmar (~volkmar@rps1542.ovh.net) (Changing host)
  31. # [00:54] * Joins: volkmar (~volkmar@gentoo/developer/volkmar)
  32. # [00:55] * Joins: lhnz (~lhnz@188-223-83-48.zone14.bethere.co.uk)
  33. # [00:56] * Joins: payman (~payman@pat.se.opera.com)
  34. # [00:57] * Joins: gavin_ (~gavin@firefox/developer/gavin)
  35. # [01:04] * Quits: sean` (~Sean@84-106-110-173.cable.quicknet.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  36. # [01:21] * Quits: ZombieLoffe (~e@unaffiliated/zombieloffe)
  37. # [01:24] * Quits: FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly) (Quit: swatted to death)
  38. # [01:27] * Quits: wakaba_ (~wakaba_@130.139.210.220.dy.bbexcite.jp) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  39. # [01:27] * Joins: wakaba_ (~wakaba_@130.139.210.220.dy.bbexcite.jp)
  40. # [01:29] * Quits: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01) (Quit: Poof.)
  41. # [01:31] * Joins: hober (~ted@unaffiliated/hober)
  42. # [01:31] * Joins: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01)
  43. # [01:32] * Joins: paul_irish (~paul_iris@207-237-102-112.c3-0.nyr-ubr1.nyr.ny.cable.rcn.com)
  44. # [01:42] * Quits: wakaba_ (~wakaba_@130.139.210.220.dy.bbexcite.jp) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  45. # [01:42] * Joins: yutak_home (~kee@R222116.ppp.dion.ne.jp)
  46. # [01:42] <AryehGregor> Okay, hg's response to a config file format error seems to be a backtrace.
  47. # [01:42] * Joins: wakaba_ (~wakaba_@130.139.210.220.dy.bbexcite.jp)
  48. # [01:43] <AryehGregor> Seriously.
  49. # [01:43] <AryehGregor> How can this possibly be considered acceptable in real software?
  50. # [01:53] * Quits: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01) (Quit: Poof.)
  51. # [01:54] * Joins: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01)
  52. # [01:54] * Quits: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01) (Client Quit)
  53. # [01:59] * Joins: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01)
  54. # [02:07] * Quits: wakaba_ (~wakaba_@130.139.210.220.dy.bbexcite.jp) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  55. # [02:08] * Joins: wakaba_ (~wakaba_@130.139.210.220.dy.bbexcite.jp)
  56. # [02:12] * Quits: wakaba_ (~wakaba_@130.139.210.220.dy.bbexcite.jp) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  57. # [02:14] * Joins: nattokirai (~nattokira@rtr.mozilla.or.jp)
  58. # [02:16] <AryehGregor> Wow, people had \
  59. # [02:16] <AryehGregor> Wow, people had fun filing bugs the day before the deadline.
  60. # [02:17] <AryehGregor> Especially Microsoft.
  61. # [02:27] <variable> AryehGregor, bugs for what?
  62. # [02:27] <AryehGregor> http://w3.org/Bugs/Public
  63. # [02:27] <AryehGregor> Spec bugs.
  64. # [02:27] <variable> ah
  65. # [02:28] * Joins: wakaba_ (~wakaba_@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
  66. # [02:31] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@c-71-202-165-226.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  67. # [02:32] * Joins: dglazkov (~dglazkov@75-37-194-175.lightspeed.lsatca.sbcglobal.net)
  68. # [02:33] * Quits: dglazkov (~dglazkov@75-37-194-175.lightspeed.lsatca.sbcglobal.net) (Client Quit)
  69. # [02:43] * Quits: ttepasse (~ttepasse@ip-109-90-161-169.unitymediagroup.de) (Quit: Now time for the weather. Tiffany?)
  70. # [02:45] * Joins: homata (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
  71. # [02:49] * Joins: wirepair (fbi@random.supermario.org)
  72. # [02:49] * Quits: oal (~oal@5.79-160-122.customer.lyse.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  73. # [02:56] * Joins: dglazkov (~dglazkov@75-37-194-175.lightspeed.lsatca.sbcglobal.net)
  74. # [03:07] * Joins: homata__ (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
  75. # [03:08] * Quits: homata (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  76. # [03:22] * Quits: henrikbjorn (~henrik@c83-249-65-238.bredband.comhem.se) (Remote host closed the connection)
  77. # [03:42] * Quits: yutak (~yutak@2401:fa00:4:1000:21d:9ff:fe0a:85f) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  78. # [03:50] * Joins: yutak (~yutak@2401:fa00:4:1000:21d:9ff:fe0a:85f)
  79. # [03:52] * Quits: gavin_ (~gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  80. # [03:55] * Joins: agektmr (~Adium@220.109.219.244)
  81. # [03:57] * Joins: gavin_ (~gavin@firefox/developer/gavin)
  82. # [04:04] * Joins: homata (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
  83. # [04:04] * Quits: homata__ (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  84. # [04:08] * Joins: homata__ (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
  85. # [04:10] * Quits: homata (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  86. # [04:14] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachlan@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  87. # [04:18] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@dslb-094-223-087-097.pools.arcor-ip.net) (Quit: Die demokratieerhaltende Whistleblower-Organisation Krautchan freut sich immer über Spenden.)
  88. # [04:39] * Joins: nessy (~Adium@216.194.44.151)
  89. # [04:49] * Joins: Twisol (~Twisol@cpe-76-166-195-41.socal.res.rr.com)
  90. # [04:49] * Quits: Twisol (~Twisol@cpe-76-166-195-41.socal.res.rr.com) (Changing host)
  91. # [04:49] * Joins: Twisol (~Twisol@wikia/Oddlyoko)
  92. # [04:50] * Quits: WHATWG (~apermanen@cpe-76-168-89-210.socal.res.rr.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
  93. # [04:51] * Quits: nessy (~Adium@216.194.44.151) (Quit: Leaving.)
  94. # [04:54] * Joins: nessy (~Adium@216.194.44.151)
  95. # [05:00] * Quits: nessy (~Adium@216.194.44.151) (Quit: Leaving.)
  96. # [05:05] * Quits: dglazkov (~dglazkov@75-37-194-175.lightspeed.lsatca.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: dglazkov)
  97. # [05:10] * Joins: cardona507 (~cardona50@c-67-180-160-250.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  98. # [05:11] * Joins: cooto (~coto@pc-237-181-120-200.cm.vtr.net)
  99. # [05:14] * Quits: volkmar (~volkmar@gentoo/developer/volkmar) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  100. # [05:14] * Joins: volkmar (~volkmar@rps1542.ovh.net)
  101. # [05:14] * Quits: volkmar (~volkmar@rps1542.ovh.net) (Changing host)
  102. # [05:14] * Joins: volkmar (~volkmar@gentoo/developer/volkmar)
  103. # [05:54] * Twisol is now known as Twisol|working
  104. # [06:23] * Quits: kbrosnan (~kbrosnan@ip24-250-54-36.ri.ri.cox.net) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  105. # [06:34] * Joins: bl4ckcomb_ (~dennis.d@91.181.72.21)
  106. # [06:36] * Quits: JoePeck (~JoePeck@c-76-102-33-198.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  107. # [06:37] * Quits: bl4ckcomb (~dennis.d@91.181.172.31) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  108. # [06:38] * Joins: kbrosnan (~kbrosnan@ip24-250-54-36.ri.ri.cox.net)
  109. # [06:38] * Joins: JoePeck (~JoePeck@c-76-102-33-198.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  110. # [06:47] * Quits: heycam (~cam@203-97-204-82.dsl.clear.net.nz) (Quit: bye)
  111. # [07:06] * Twisol|working is now known as Twisol
  112. # [07:10] * Joins: sean` (~Sean@84-106-110-173.cable.quicknet.nl)
  113. # [07:19] * Quits: sean` (~Sean@84-106-110-173.cable.quicknet.nl) (Quit: Leaving)
  114. # [07:22] * Joins: homata (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
  115. # [07:26] * Quits: homata__ (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  116. # [07:26] * Joins: Ankheg (~Miranda@fs91-201-3-30.dubna-net.ru)
  117. # [07:34] * Quits: homata (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Quit: Leaving...)
  118. # [07:35] * Joins: homata (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
  119. # [07:37] * Joins: JonathanNeal (~Jonathan_@99-59-125-34.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net)
  120. # [07:39] * Joins: rimantas (~rimliu@lan-84-240-20-219.vln.skynet.lt)
  121. # [07:54] * Quits: JonathanNeal (~Jonathan_@99-59-125-34.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  122. # [07:57] * Quits: homata (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  123. # [07:57] * Joins: homata (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
  124. # [08:06] * Quits: homata (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Quit: Leaving...)
  125. # [08:07] * Joins: homata (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
  126. # [08:08] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-ec9fe355.410-6-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
  127. # [08:09] * Quits: homata (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Client Quit)
  128. # [08:09] * Joins: homata (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
  129. # [08:11] * Quits: yusukes (~yusukes@2401:fa00:4:1000:224:81ff:fec1:6444) (Read error: No route to host)
  130. # [08:11] * Quits: aho (~nya@fuld-4d00d3c3.pool.mediaWays.net) (Quit: EXEC_over.METHOD_SUBLIMATION)
  131. # [08:24] * Quits: cardona507 (~cardona50@c-67-180-160-250.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: zzzzz)
  132. # [08:26] * Joins: zalan (~zalan@catv-89-135-140-7.catv.broadband.hu)
  133. # [08:28] * Disconnected
  134. # [08:29] * Attempting to rejoin channel #whatwg
  135. # [08:29] * Rejoined channel #whatwg
  136. # [08:29] * Topic is 'WHATWG: http://www.whatwg.org/ -- logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ -- stats: http://gavinsharp.com/irc/whatwg.html -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
  137. # [08:29] * Set by annevk42 on Mon Oct 19 23:03:06
  138. # [08:29] * Quits: krijnh (~krijnhoet@83.160.77.30) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  139. # [08:35] * Joins: Maurice (~ano@a80-101-46-164.adsl.xs4all.nl)
  140. # [08:38] * Joins: homata__ (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
  141. # [08:42] * Quits: homata (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  142. # [08:42] * Joins: moo (~quassel@herd37.twinapex.fi)
  143. # [08:42] * Quits: Moo--__ (~quassel@herd37.twinapex.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  144. # [08:42] * Joins: FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly)
  145. # [08:42] * moo is now known as Guest55147
  146. # [08:43] * Quits: nw_ (eero@heaven.unlink.org) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  147. # [08:43] * Quits: Hixie (ianh@trivini.no) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  148. # [08:43] * Joins: Hixie (ianh@trivini.no)
  149. # [08:43] * Joins: nw (eero@heaven.unlink.org)
  150. # [08:47] * Joins: cardona507 (~cardona50@c-67-180-160-250.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  151. # [08:48] * Quits: cardona507 (~cardona50@c-67-180-160-250.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
  152. # [08:56] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@5355737B.cable.casema.nl)
  153. # [08:57] * Joins: grantg (80e30b26@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.227.11.38)
  154. # [08:58] <grantg> What's with the data property of an ImageData Object returned from createImageData or getImageData being read-only?
  155. # [08:58] <grantg> All the browsers except IE9 allow you to write (and should for raw display-out capabilities).
  156. # [08:59] <grantg> This is blocking my js gameboy color from using the canvas object for display out.
  157. # [08:59] <grantg> It has to fall back to drawing via BMP images created by data uris
  158. # [08:59] <grantg> site: http://grantgalitz.org/gameboy/
  159. # [08:59] * Joins: yusukes (~yusukes@2401:fa00:4:1000:224:81ff:fec1:6444)
  160. # [09:00] <grantg> The each value inside the CanvasPixelArray object should be able to be written to
  161. # [09:01] <grantg> But IE9 is the browser that disagrees. WTF?
  162. # [09:01] <annevk> that's just a bug in IE9 then
  163. # [09:01] <annevk> data is marked readonly because you cannot write to data, but you can write to the object it returns
  164. # [09:01] <grantg> Yeah, you shouldn't be able to alter the array count / add / delete the indices, and they should have to fall between 0 and 255
  165. # [09:02] <grantg> write with restrictions. ;)
  166. # [09:02] <grantg> annek: ok
  167. # [09:02] <grantg> Then the IE9 team read that wrong. :P
  168. # [09:03] <annevk> there's a whole lot of things that work that way
  169. # [09:03] <annevk> so that'd be scary
  170. # [09:03] <grantg> Since there's "limited writing" to the indices.
  171. # [09:03] <annevk> but maybe they don't do it consistently wrong
  172. # [09:03] <grantg> IE9 throws a read-only error on setting an indice.
  173. # [09:04] <grantg> Even though the value to write is valid and so is the indice.
  174. # [09:04] <grantg> wird
  175. # [09:04] <grantg> *weird
  176. # [09:05] <grantg> Unless my emu has a hidden bug that's only triggering a fault in IE9. :P
  177. # [09:05] <grantg> The emu actually works btw.
  178. # [09:05] <grantg> At least most roms do.
  179. # [09:05] <grantg> Some bugs still. :(
  180. # [09:06] <grantg> The JS N64 emu is even worse.
  181. # [09:06] <grantg> Which is why it isn't live yet.
  182. # [09:06] <grantg> It has tons of issues with WebG.> :(
  183. # [09:06] <grantg> *WebGL
  184. # [09:07] * Quits: FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly) (Quit: swatted to death)
  185. # [09:08] <annevk> N64? that'd be great
  186. # [09:08] <grantg> annevk: ARM emulation for the GBA is coming up shortly (before the N64 emu).
  187. # [09:08] <grantg> At least ARM has documentation. :P
  188. # [09:09] <grantg> *more than the GBC :P
  189. # [09:09] <grantg> yeah
  190. # [09:09] <grantg> Almost all the N64 game roms crash
  191. # [09:09] <grantg> some exceptions though
  192. # [09:09] <grantg> Mario Kart & Diddy kong racing
  193. # [09:10] <grantg> Though WebGL matrices are way off on them.
  194. # [09:10] <grantg> And a buggy Firefox 4 beta 7 pre isn't making life any easier.
  195. # [09:12] <grantg> Though the documentation on the reality chip for the n64 is sometimes hard to come by, just like the gameboy's cpu docs.
  196. # [09:12] <grantg> Damn Nintendo changing the Zilog Z80 CPU around.
  197. # [09:14] * grantg almost has kirby 64 running on the js n64 emu at least.
  198. # [09:16] * Joins: workmad3 (~workmad3@cpc3-bagu10-0-0-cust651.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com)
  199. # [09:16] <grantg> Though I need to work on the GBC emu some more
  200. # [09:16] <grantg> Pokemon Crystal badly fucks up after the intro
  201. # [09:16] <grantg> And the clock cycle timing isn't right yet.
  202. # [09:17] <grantg> Though Pokemon Yellow seems to run perfectly. :P
  203. # [09:17] <grantg> color and all
  204. # [09:17] <grantg> except sound
  205. # [09:17] <grantg> Sound is fucked up on my part.
  206. # [09:17] <grantg> Still not ready on sound.
  207. # [09:18] <grantg> annevk: Works in IE8 at 1fps. ;)
  208. # [09:18] <grantg> (IE 8, not 9)
  209. # [09:18] <grantg> IE9 works at 5 fps
  210. # [09:20] <grantg> annevk: When is chrome going to fix the memory leak with assigning long arrays onto a canvas context?
  211. # [09:20] <grantg> Just seems like a bad security issue
  212. # [09:20] <grantg> As well as data uri'd images.
  213. # [09:21] <grantg> google chrome leaks a lot of shit and runs systems of of memory accidentally when running my emu
  214. # [09:21] <grantg> Firefox, opera, ie don't have this prob
  215. # [09:21] * Guest55147 is now known as Moo--__
  216. # [09:22] * Joins: sean` (~Sean@84-106-110-173.cable.quicknet.nl)
  217. # [09:22] <annevk> grantg, better ask someone from Google :)
  218. # [09:22] <grantg> heh
  219. # [09:22] * Parts: sean` (~Sean@84-106-110-173.cable.quicknet.nl)
  220. # [09:22] <grantg> Lots of rendering glitches in Opera & chrome
  221. # [09:23] <grantg> Opera wins overall
  222. # [09:23] <annevk> but euh, keep up the good work; I love playing games in the browser
  223. # [09:23] <grantg> Try to visit my emu in Opera and you'll be horrified.
  224. # [09:23] <annevk> oh, if you find bugs in Opera please file them at bugs.opera.com/wizard
  225. # [09:23] <grantg> I have
  226. # [09:23] <annevk> cool
  227. # [09:23] <grantg> The opera dev team has ignored them for 6 months at least
  228. # [09:23] <annevk> oh, let me poke them for you
  229. # [09:24] <annevk> can you /msg me your email or the bug IDs?
  230. # [09:24] <grantg> Box-shadow is *trashed* c o m p l e t e l y. Did I say completely trashed. YES.
  231. # [09:24] <grantg> annevk: grantgalitz@gmail.com
  232. # [09:24] <grantg> Should be in the db
  233. # [09:24] <annevk> should definitely make sure games work in our browser
  234. # [09:24] <annevk> great
  235. # [09:25] <grantg> And SVG rendering is fucked up when used in css backgrounds in Opera whena doc is scrolling
  236. # [09:25] <grantg> Not to mention the opacity bug where the browser's rendering engine incorrectly stacks the virtual buffers wrong.
  237. # [09:26] <grantg> So UI elements like scrollbars and buttons appear behind the opacity-given element when in the element.
  238. # [09:27] <grantg> Opera gets its logic right, but not the rendering logic right.
  239. # [09:27] <grantg> annevk: Do they have my bugs, they should be there.
  240. # [09:28] <grantg> If you need me to re-fill out the reports, ok.
  241. # [09:29] <grantg> Opera's rendering is buggy on all OSes. :(
  242. # [09:29] <annevk> there's some weird way we store bugs from external reporters and I forgot how to search that
  243. # [09:29] <grantg> hmm
  244. # [09:29] <grantg> Should I double report?
  245. # [09:30] <annevk> if you have the bug IDs that'd make it easier for me
  246. # [09:30] <grantg> Not the IDs.
  247. # [09:31] <grantg> I haven't been to their site in awhile, nor have I copied down any #s.
  248. # [09:31] * Joins: ROBOd (~robod@89.123.139.34)
  249. # [09:32] * grantg needs to go soon.
  250. # [09:32] * Joins: Steve_B (~chatzilla@gatek.thls.bbc.co.uk)
  251. # [09:33] <annevk> I found one bug
  252. # [09:34] <grantg> Heh, found a GBC rom that shows off Mode 7. lol @ crude 3D on the gameboy.
  253. # [09:34] <grantg> annevk: It might be listed under other emails too.
  254. # [09:35] <grantg> Like one of my half-dozen AOL accounts.
  255. # [09:35] <grantg> yes, AOL. :(
  256. # [09:35] <annevk> heh, do they have something in common?
  257. # [09:35] <annevk> would definitely be easier if you used just one address
  258. # [09:36] <grantg> I should just re-report the damn bugs.
  259. # [09:36] <annevk> that works too
  260. # [09:36] <grantg> It's easy to see them
  261. # [09:36] <grantg> At least half-dozen on the gameboy emu
  262. # [09:37] <grantg> Browse http://grantgalitz.org/gameboy/ and you'll eventually find some bugs.
  263. # [09:37] <grantg> These 'windows' are movable and resizable.
  264. # [09:37] <grantg> Moving them glitches out opera.
  265. # [09:38] <grantg> Clearly Opera bugs when you move them.
  266. # [09:39] <annevk> yeah
  267. # [09:39] <annevk> bah
  268. # [09:39] <grantg> lol
  269. # [09:39] <grantg> Trashed, right?
  270. # [09:41] <grantg> Do you need a rom
  271. # [09:41] <grantg> Remember, you can load any rom from any address
  272. # [09:41] <grantg> or you can load them in locally
  273. # [09:42] <annevk> I was wondering about samples
  274. # [09:42] <annevk> no presets?
  275. # [09:42] <grantg> Either through the File API or through Base64 copy+paste
  276. # [09:42] <grantg> ?
  277. # [09:42] <grantg> You mean providing roms for you?
  278. # [09:42] <annevk> yeah, though I guess you'd violate some copyright then
  279. # [09:42] <grantg> I'd call that illegal or borderline illegal
  280. # [09:42] <grantg> like jsnes
  281. # [09:43] <grantg> I can give you any unlicensed rom though
  282. # [09:43] <grantg> http://grantgalitz.org/gameboy/romStorage/proxima.gb
  283. # [09:43] * Quits: cooto (~coto@pc-237-181-120-200.cm.vtr.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  284. # [09:43] <grantg> copy+paste that address into the emu
  285. # [09:43] <grantg> or dl the rom and load it in from your comp
  286. # [09:45] <annevk> you need some kind of controls page
  287. # [09:45] <grantg> x is a
  288. # [09:45] <grantg> z is b
  289. # [09:45] <grantg> shift is select
  290. # [09:45] <grantg> enter/return is start
  291. # [09:45] <grantg> annevk: yeah
  292. # [09:46] <grantg> and the arrow keys are the arrow keys.
  293. # [09:47] <grantg> annevk: You can play most games even right before GBA came out
  294. # [09:47] <grantg> 2001 GBC games work as good as 1998 GBC games
  295. # [09:48] <grantg> Like mario tennis
  296. # [09:48] <grantg> and Super Mario Bros Deluxe
  297. # [09:48] <grantg> and Pokemon Yellow / Red / Blue
  298. # [09:48] <grantg> And Microsof pinball
  299. # [09:48] <grantg> etc
  300. # [09:48] <grantg> *MicroSoft
  301. # [09:48] <grantg> and more...
  302. # [09:51] * Quits: workmad3 (~workmad3@cpc3-bagu10-0-0-cust651.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  303. # [09:51] <annevk> box-shadow issue is already resolved btw
  304. # [09:51] <grantg> When?
  305. # [09:51] <annevk> will hopefully be in public builds soon
  306. # [09:52] <grantg> Thank god
  307. # [09:52] <grantg> It's been there since the 10.50 alphas
  308. # [09:53] * Joins: virtuelv (~virtuelv_@pat-tdc.opera.com)
  309. # [09:53] <grantg> annevk: Notice when resizing the 'window' vertically very slowly the inside div doesn't resize as well?
  310. # [09:53] <grantg> Bug in opera. :P
  311. # [09:53] * Quits: nattokirai (~nattokira@rtr.mozilla.or.jp) (Quit: nattokirai)
  312. # [09:53] <grantg> very very weird position: absolute bug.
  313. # [09:54] <grantg> with inline-block
  314. # [09:54] <grantg> some weird logic
  315. # [09:54] <grantg> Like a check in opera is getting missed.
  316. # [09:55] <grantg> annevk: BTW, the site renders as application/xhtml+xml for browsers that send that mime type in the accept header.
  317. # [09:56] <grantg> So it will present itself as true XHTML to the browsers that support it.
  318. # [09:56] <grantg> :D
  319. # [09:56] <annevk> Hixie, http://www.emendapp.com/sites/www.whatwg.org
  320. # [09:57] <grantg> None of that broken fake-o-xhtml shit that 99% of the web does.
  321. # [09:58] <annevk> so that you can use inline SVG?
  322. # [09:58] <grantg> Correction, 99+%
  323. # [09:58] <grantg> :(
  324. # [09:59] <grantg> annevk: I don't use inline svg
  325. # [09:59] <grantg> Just as CSS backgrounds
  326. # [09:59] <grantg> As fallback when CSS3 gradients aren't supported
  327. # [09:59] <zcorpan> so that ie6-8 users will still be happy when your site is broken but ie9 users and users of other browsers will be unhappy?
  328. # [10:00] <grantg> IE8 gets MicroSoft's proprietary gradient filter
  329. # [10:00] <grantg> IE 6 & 7 cannot work with the emu
  330. # [10:00] <grantg> they suck and will not run it
  331. # [10:00] <grantg> brb
  332. # [10:00] * Quits: grantg (80e30b26@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.227.11.38) (Quit: Page closed)
  333. # [10:01] * Joins: matjas (~matjas@ip-81-11-180-97.dsl.scarlet.be)
  334. # [10:02] * Parts: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-ec9fe355.410-6-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
  335. # [10:03] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-ec9fe355.410-6-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
  336. # [10:03] * Joins: virtuelv_ (~virtuelv_@guest.opera.com)
  337. # [10:04] * Quits: hasather (~david@pat-tdc.opera.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  338. # [10:04] * Quits: virtuelv (~virtuelv_@pat-tdc.opera.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  339. # [10:04] * Parts: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-ec9fe355.410-6-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
  340. # [10:05] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-ec9fe355.410-6-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
  341. # [10:05] * Quits: pablof (~palbo@pat-tdc.opera.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  342. # [10:08] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@91.189.88.12)
  343. # [10:08] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@91.189.88.12) (Changing host)
  344. # [10:08] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt)
  345. # [10:11] <annevk> hg pull is crashing on me?
  346. # [10:11] <annevk> is this because I pushed to a different repository before or something?
  347. # [10:11] <annevk> gah
  348. # [10:16] * Joins: pablof (~palbo@pat-tdc.opera.com)
  349. # [10:16] <jgraham> annevk: No, you should be able to push and pull from different repos
  350. # [10:16] <jgraham> What error are you getting?
  351. # [10:17] <annevk> I think it's due to VPN
  352. # [10:17] <annevk> I disabled VPN and now things work
  353. # [10:17] <annevk> can I pull and push to two repositories by default btw?
  354. # [10:18] * Quits: homata__ (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Quit: Leaving...)
  355. # [10:18] <annevk> so that I don't have to keep them in sync manually?
  356. # [10:18] <annevk> also
  357. # [10:18] <annevk> *summons* Ms2ger
  358. # [10:18] <jgraham> I don't think you can make hg pull and hg push always work with two different repositories
  359. # [10:18] <jgraham> at the same time
  360. # [10:19] * Joins: hasather (~david@pat-tdc.opera.com)
  361. # [10:20] <annevk> too bad
  362. # [10:24] * jgraham wonders if Leif actually uses System 9
  363. # [10:26] <zcorpan> what's System 9?
  364. # [10:26] <jgraham> The Mac operating system from before OSX
  365. # [10:27] <zcorpan> ah
  366. # [10:29] * Quits: Twisol (~Twisol@wikia/Oddlyoko) (Quit: Leaving)
  367. # [10:45] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@c-71-202-165-226.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.10/20100920140826])
  368. # [10:51] * Joins: grantg (80e30b26@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.227.11.38)
  369. # [10:52] * grantg loads a compiled rom of unix made for gameboy z80 derived cpus and loads it into the js emu.
  370. # [10:53] <grantg> bliss
  371. # [10:53] <grantg> unix in js
  372. # [10:55] * grantg loads http://grantgalitz.org/gameboy/romStorage/Unix%20(PD).gb into http://grantgalitz.org/gameboy/
  373. # [10:58] * Joins: grantg_ (80e30b26@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.227.11.38)
  374. # [10:59] * Joins: maikmerten (~merten@ls5dhcp196.cs.uni-dortmund.de)
  375. # [10:59] * Quits: grantg (80e30b26@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.227.11.38) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  376. # [11:00] * grantg_ managed to "aw, Snap!" Google Chrome once more with the emu (WebKit is unstable and leaks a lot in the File API)
  377. # [11:01] * Joins: workmad3 (~workmad3@cspool86.cs.man.ac.uk)
  378. # [11:01] <grantg_> *unstable in the file api
  379. # [11:03] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@YGKMMCMXXXVII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)
  380. # [11:10] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachlan@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no)
  381. # [11:10] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachlan@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no) (Client Quit)
  382. # [11:11] <grantg_> annevk: When is the bug fix release coming out approx?
  383. # [11:11] <grantg_> This month or next?'
  384. # [11:11] <grantg_> Or "when we feel like it"?
  385. # [11:13] <annevk> Hopefully soon is the best I can do
  386. # [11:14] <grantg_> Yeah, this is the kind of bug where box-shadow should be disabled by default until it's fixed.
  387. # [11:15] <grantg_> breaks whenever the effect is altered (on /off) or moved around.
  388. # [11:16] <grantg_> I'm going to sleep
  389. # [11:16] <grantg_> nn
  390. # [11:16] * Quits: grantg_ (80e30b26@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.227.11.38) (Quit: Page closed)
  391. # [11:19] * Joins: reni__home (~reni@sedkit.inf.u-szeged.hu)
  392. # [11:20] * Quits: hjjaa (~ghe@132.150.124.56)
  393. # [11:22] * Joins: mat_t (~mattomasz@91.189.88.12)
  394. # [11:24] <hsivonen> jgraham: does http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/FigureInP#Details look sane to you?
  395. # [11:29] * Quits: mat_t (~mattomasz@91.189.88.12) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  396. # [11:30] <zcorpan> hsivonen: table-row seems like an annoying style since it can't have a border in the separated table border model (which is the default)
  397. # [11:31] * Joins: mat_t (~mattomasz@91.189.88.12)
  398. # [11:32] <zcorpan> hsivonen: you could say figure { border-collapse:collapse } in the ua style sheet but then that would affect descendant tables
  399. # [11:33] <hsivonen> zcorpan: would table-cell make more sense?
  400. # [11:34] <hsivonen> zcorpan: hmm. actually, it would not
  401. # [11:34] <jgraham> hsivonen: Why do you want it to be scoping?
  402. # [11:34] <hsivonen> zcorpan: what would you suggest for the default UA style sheet for figure and figcaption
  403. # [11:34] <zcorpan> hsivonen: display:block for both
  404. # [11:34] <hsivonen> zcorpan: OK
  405. # [11:35] <hsivonen> jgraham: to make <pre> as the figured element work
  406. # [11:35] <hsivonen> (and <table>)
  407. # [11:35] <zcorpan> we'd want the caption text to wrap to the width of the image, which display:table doesn't do
  408. # [11:36] <zcorpan> if we try hard enough to get it right, what we have accomplished is a headache for authors who will need more rules in their reset.css to make a default they can understand
  409. # [11:36] <hsivonen> zcorpan: ok
  410. # [11:37] <hsivonen> zcorpan: I removed the UA style sheet changes
  411. # [11:37] <hsivonen> jgraham: it's covered in the "Rationale" section :-)
  412. # [11:38] <annevk> allowing <pre> and <table> nested in <p> through <figure> is something I'm going to object to I think
  413. # [11:38] <hsivonen> annevk: why?
  414. # [11:38] <annevk> because that is the kind of authoring insanity I was hoping we would go away from
  415. # [11:39] <annevk> <table> does not work in <p>, but you can hack around that with <figure>, and it'll validate too
  416. # [11:39] <hsivonen> annevk: authors want to put tables inside paragraphs already. Why should we get in the way
  417. # [11:39] * Joins: ZombieLoffe (~e@unaffiliated/zombieloffe)
  418. # [11:39] <annevk> because if this is the only way they can do that everyone will just end up getting confused
  419. # [11:39] <hsivonen> annevk: table not working in p is a flaw on the format. I would not hold hacking around flaws of the format against authors
  420. # [11:40] <hsivonen> s/on/of/
  421. # [11:40] <annevk> we should have fixed the flaw when that was still possible
  422. # [11:40] <annevk> adding special cases around the flaw instead of just accepting it as an inherent limitation seems misguided
  423. # [11:41] <hsivonen> annevk: you know how hard it is to fix a flaw like that. http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1137799947&count=1
  424. # [11:42] <hsivonen> annevk: if we don't fix figure now, we'll get one of those blog posts 7 years from now
  425. # [11:42] <annevk> not at all
  426. # [11:42] <hsivonen> actually, it's worse than 7 years. Mozilla still hasn't shipped a release with Web-compatible comment parsing
  427. # [11:42] <annevk> http://hsivonen.iki.fi/last-html-quirk/ is the flaw
  428. # [11:43] <annevk> and we know we cannot fix it
  429. # [11:45] * Joins: broquaint (~dbrook@cpc2-brig11-0-0-cust896.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com)
  430. # [11:45] <hsivonen> annevk: what could I do to the Change Proposal draft to make you not object to it if it went to a poll?
  431. # [11:46] <annevk> I think the content model would have to remain transparent
  432. # [11:46] <hsivonen> annevk: my point is that <p><figure>, <p><table> and SGML comments are all things that were working nicely for authors before Hixie pushed a change on theoretical purity grounds
  433. # [11:46] <hsivonen> annevk: that's an edit I'm not willing to make at this point :-(
  434. # [11:47] <annevk> I'm fine with <p><figure> as long as <p><figure><table> is not allowed. I don't want weird content model rules.
  435. # [11:48] <hsivonen> annevk: transparent content models are weird rules for normal people (where normal people means people who don't hang out here)
  436. # [11:48] <annevk> Having certain elements be allowed as descendants sometimes and not work at all when you remove an element inbetween is just too magical
  437. # [11:48] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachlan@pat-tdc.opera.com)
  438. # [11:48] <hsivonen> annevk: I claim that people think more in terms of parent-child than in terms of ancestor-descendant when it comes to content models
  439. # [11:49] <jgraham> I think transparent content models are always weird
  440. # [11:50] <annevk> I think people would find it very weird if they can suddenly nest <table> inside <p> through <figure> but not directly. If they'd even notice.
  441. # [11:50] <annevk> I think having <figure> on the same level as <p> and <pre> etc. therefore makes more sense, though I'd be ok with making it inline and not </p>-implying.
  442. # [11:52] <annevk> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10692#c9 -- I wonder how often I will have to keep explaining this to people
  443. # [11:53] * Joins: homata (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
  444. # [11:53] * Quits: Peter` (~peter@170-116.citynet.ftth.internl.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  445. # [11:55] * Joins: Peter` (~peter@170-116.citynet.ftth.internl.net)
  446. # [11:56] <zcorpan> annevk: the suggestion in that bug is about the coersion rules, and browsers don't implement the coersion rules, so the html[xmlns] thing is a non-issue
  447. # [11:57] <annevk> that's just what the title says
  448. # [11:57] <annevk> he's actually asking for something else
  449. # [11:58] <annevk> e.g. "I don't necessarily care how this is done as long as the Javascript that is executed on the document, intended to find "xmlns:*" mappings, doesn't have to have two code paths depending on if the document is in HTML5-mode or XHTML5-mode."
  450. # [12:00] <zcorpan> might be worthwhile to point out in the bug then that changing the coersion rules does not affect javascript/dom in the browser
  451. # [12:00] <annevk> feel free
  452. # [12:11] * Quits: mat_t (~mattomasz@91.189.88.12) (Quit: Leaving)
  453. # [12:13] <jgraham> Isn't Manu asking for the attribute to be put in the DOM in *both* the XMLNS NS and in no namespace?
  454. # [12:14] <jgraham> It sounds pretty insane, but like it would not break with a simple html[xmlns] selector
  455. # [12:15] <annevk> oh
  456. # [12:15] <annevk> that would be insane
  457. # [12:17] <jgraham> Well yeah, but you need a different example it would break, or some other argument that the insanity isn't worth the perceived value
  458. # [12:18] * Joins: mat_t (~mattomasz@91.189.88.12)
  459. # [12:18] <jgraham> (to me it is obvious that adding that kind of complexity to support the usecase "people want to use features that were designed to not work in HTML" isn't a good idea)
  460. # [12:19] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@YGKMMCMXXXVII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  461. # [12:19] <jgraham> Especially given the number of people involved, and there are alterntaives that are designed to work in HTML
  462. # [12:27] <annevk> thanks for pointing that out
  463. # [12:47] * Joins: mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@wg1-nat.fwgal01.deri.ie)
  464. # [13:01] * Quits: homata (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Quit: Leaving...)
  465. # [13:05] * Quits: workmad3 (~workmad3@cspool86.cs.man.ac.uk) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  466. # [13:07] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@c-98-223-109-93.hsd1.in.comcast.net)
  467. # [13:11] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@c-98-223-109-93.hsd1.in.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
  468. # [13:13] * Quits: kinetik (~kinetik@121.98.132.55) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  469. # [13:14] * Joins: oal (~oal@5.79-160-122.customer.lyse.net)
  470. # [13:16] * Quits: agektmr (~Adium@220.109.219.244) (Quit: Leaving.)
  471. # [13:30] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@c-98-223-109-93.hsd1.in.comcast.net)
  472. # [13:35] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@vallila-gw.hupnet.helsinki.fi)
  473. # [13:36] * Joins: sean` (~Sean@84-106-110-173.cable.quicknet.nl)
  474. # [13:50] <gsnedders> Do reftests in Gecko work by getting a hash of the entire viewport, or does it depend upon window size?
  475. # [13:53] * Joins: nessy (~Adium@216.194.44.151)
  476. # [13:53] * Joins: workmad3 (~workmad3@cspool86.cs.man.ac.uk)
  477. # [14:00] * Joins: ttepasse (~ttepasse@ip-109-90-161-169.unitymediagroup.de)
  478. # [14:00] <smaug____> gsnedders: AFAIK reftest uses canvas
  479. # [14:00] <smaug____> it paints two pages to canvas and compares them
  480. # [14:01] <jgraham> How big is the canvas?
  481. # [14:03] <smaug____> jgraham: seems like it takes the canvas size from the element which contains the web page
  482. # [14:03] <smaug____> so the size of iframe or so
  483. # [14:03] <smaug____> (I'm just reading the code...)
  484. # [14:04] * Joins: mcdave (~mcdave@cm-staticIP-85-152-14-4.telecable.es)
  485. # [14:05] <gsnedders> smaug____: okay
  486. # [14:07] * Quits: Amorphous (jan@unaffiliated/amorphous) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  487. # [14:07] <smaug____> The browser element (== iframe) has style="min-width: 800px; min-height: 1000px; max-width: 800px; max-height: 1000px"
  488. # [14:07] <smaug____> gsnedders: ^
  489. # [14:08] <jgraham> Aren't there tests that don't work in an iframe?
  490. # [14:08] <jgraham> I'm thinking of viewport0related CSS stuff
  491. # [14:10] <smaug____> jgraham: well, it is actually <xul:browser type="content-primary"> so the contents of it is the top level content page
  492. # [14:10] <jgraham> Ah
  493. # [14:14] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@vallila-gw.hupnet.helsinki.fi) (Remote host closed the connection)
  494. # [14:15] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@vallila-gw.hupnet.helsinki.fi)
  495. # [14:22] * Quits: Maurice (~ano@a80-101-46-164.adsl.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  496. # [14:23] * Joins: Amorphous (jan@unaffiliated/amorphous)
  497. # [14:26] * Quits: nessy (~Adium@216.194.44.151) (Quit: Leaving.)
  498. # [14:27] * Joins: Maurice (~ano@a80-101-46-164.adsl.xs4all.nl)
  499. # [14:30] * Quits: ben_alman (~cowboy@pool-74-104-156-115.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  500. # [14:31] * Quits: sean` (~Sean@84-106-110-173.cable.quicknet.nl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  501. # [14:31] * Joins: sean` (~Sean@84-106-110-173.cable.quicknet.nl)
  502. # [14:34] * Quits: workmad3 (~workmad3@cspool86.cs.man.ac.uk) (Remote host closed the connection)
  503. # [14:37] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@5355737B.cable.casema.nl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  504. # [14:39] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@5355737B.cable.casema.nl)
  505. # [14:39] * Quits: ttepasse (~ttepasse@ip-109-90-161-169.unitymediagroup.de) (Read error: Connection timed out)
  506. # [14:42] * Joins: nessy (~Adium@216.194.44.151)
  507. # [14:45] * Quits: virtuelv_ (~virtuelv_@guest.opera.com) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  508. # [14:48] * Quits: nessy (~Adium@216.194.44.151) (Quit: Leaving.)
  509. # [14:57] * Quits: matjas (~matjas@ip-81-11-180-97.dsl.scarlet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
  510. # [14:57] * Joins: payman_m (~payman_m@77.72.99.119)
  511. # [14:57] * Joins: matjas (~matjas@ip-81-11-180-97.dsl.scarlet.be)
  512. # [14:58] * mamund_ is now known as mamund
  513. # [15:00] * Quits: Rik` (~Rik`@pha75-2-81-57-187-57.fbx.proxad.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  514. # [15:01] * Quits: wakaba_ (~wakaba_@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Quit: Leaving...)
  515. # [15:02] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@vallila-gw.hupnet.helsinki.fi) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  516. # [15:04] * Joins: Anti-X (~duckmysic@c9E72BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no)
  517. # [15:04] * Quits: Maurice (~ano@a80-101-46-164.adsl.xs4all.nl) (Quit: Disconnected...)
  518. # [15:08] * hsivonen wonders if all the FOs raised in the first months of the HTML WG's existence have become moot and no longer tracked: http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/formal-objection-status.html
  519. # [15:10] * Quits: yutak_home (~kee@R222116.ppp.dion.ne.jp) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  520. # [15:12] * Joins: micheil (~micheil@220-235-101-140.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  521. # [15:17] * Joins: kinetik (~kinetik@121.98.132.55)
  522. # [15:19] * Joins: erlehmann (~erlehmann@dslb-094-223-087-097.pools.arcor-ip.net)
  523. # [15:23] * Quits: paul_irish (~paul_iris@207-237-102-112.c3-0.nyr-ubr1.nyr.ny.cable.rcn.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  524. # [15:24] * Quits: f1lt3r (~f1lt3r@64.119.153.2) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  525. # [15:26] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@5355737B.cable.casema.nl) (Quit: annevk)
  526. # [15:27] * Joins: f1lt3r (~f1lt3r@64.119.153.2)
  527. # [15:30] * Joins: workmad3 (~workmad3@cspool86.cs.man.ac.uk)
  528. # [15:32] * Joins: pesla (~pesla@188.202.125.121)
  529. # [15:33] * Joins: KaOSoFt (~maxzagato@unaffiliated/kaosoft)
  530. # [15:34] * Joins: BlurstOfTimes (~blurstoft@168.203.117.107)
  531. # [15:34] * Joins: Rik` (~Rik`@mozilla-paris-222-194.cnt.nerim.net)
  532. # [15:34] * Quits: Martijnc (~Martijnc@91.176.141.195) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  533. # [15:34] * Quits: Ankheg (~Miranda@fs91-201-3-30.dubna-net.ru) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  534. # [15:37] * Joins: aroben (~aroben@unaffiliated/aroben)
  535. # [15:39] * Joins: Martijnc (~Martijnc@91.176.244.52)
  536. # [15:39] * Quits: mcdave (~mcdave@cm-staticIP-85-152-14-4.telecable.es) (Quit: mcdave)
  537. # [15:44] * Joins: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2)
  538. # [15:44] * Quits: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2) (Excess Flood)
  539. # [15:45] * Joins: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2)
  540. # [15:45] * Quits: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2) (Excess Flood)
  541. # [15:45] * Joins: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2)
  542. # [15:45] * Quits: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2) (Excess Flood)
  543. # [15:46] * Joins: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2)
  544. # [15:46] * Quits: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2) (Excess Flood)
  545. # [15:47] * Joins: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2)
  546. # [15:47] * Quits: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2) (Excess Flood)
  547. # [15:47] * Joins: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2)
  548. # [15:47] * Quits: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2) (Excess Flood)
  549. # [15:48] * Quits: micheil (~micheil@220-235-101-140.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Quit: micheil)
  550. # [15:48] * Joins: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2)
  551. # [15:48] * Quits: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2) (Excess Flood)
  552. # [15:49] * Joins: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2)
  553. # [15:49] * Quits: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2) (Excess Flood)
  554. # [15:49] * Joins: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2)
  555. # [15:49] * Quits: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2) (Excess Flood)
  556. # [15:50] * Joins: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2)
  557. # [15:50] * Quits: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2) (Excess Flood)
  558. # [15:51] * Joins: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2)
  559. # [15:51] * Quits: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2) (Excess Flood)
  560. # [15:51] * Quits: BlurstOfTimes (~blurstoft@168.203.117.107) (Read error: Connection timed out)
  561. # [15:51] * Joins: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2)
  562. # [15:51] * Quits: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2) (Excess Flood)
  563. # [15:52] * Joins: BlurstOfTimes (~blurstoft@168.203.117.107)
  564. # [15:52] * Joins: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2)
  565. # [15:52] * Quits: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2) (Excess Flood)
  566. # [15:53] * Joins: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2)
  567. # [15:53] * Quits: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2) (Excess Flood)
  568. # [15:53] * Joins: micheil (~micheil@220-235-101-140.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  569. # [15:53] * Joins: ttepasse (~ttepasse@ip-109-90-161-169.unitymediagroup.de)
  570. # [15:53] * Joins: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2)
  571. # [15:53] * Quits: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2) (Excess Flood)
  572. # [15:54] <zcorpan> hsivonen: i thought that all FOs would be tracked and presented to the Director when the time comes, but i don't know how it works exactly
  573. # [15:54] * Joins: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2)
  574. # [15:54] * Quits: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2) (Excess Flood)
  575. # [15:54] <hsivonen> zcorpan: that's what I thought, too
  576. # [15:55] * Joins: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2)
  577. # [15:55] * Quits: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2) (Excess Flood)
  578. # [15:55] * Joins: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2)
  579. # [15:55] * Quits: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2) (Excess Flood)
  580. # [15:56] * Joins: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2)
  581. # [15:56] * Quits: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2) (Excess Flood)
  582. # [15:57] * Joins: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2)
  583. # [15:57] * Quits: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2) (Excess Flood)
  584. # [15:57] * Joins: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2)
  585. # [15:57] * Quits: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2) (Excess Flood)
  586. # [15:58] * Quits: Rik` (~Rik`@mozilla-paris-222-194.cnt.nerim.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  587. # [15:58] * Joins: Rik` (~Rik`@mozilla-paris-222-194.cnt.nerim.net)
  588. # [15:59] * Joins: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2)
  589. # [15:59] * Quits: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2) (Excess Flood)
  590. # [15:59] * Joins: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2)
  591. # [15:59] * Quits: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2) (Excess Flood)
  592. # [16:00] <zcorpan> hsivonen: i think Hixie meant css whitespace as in whitespace the actual style sheet, not what the white-space property thinks is white space in the document
  593. # [16:00] <jgraham> Oh more bugspam
  594. # [16:01] * Joins: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2)
  595. # [16:01] <hsivonen> zcorpan: oh. ok.
  596. # [16:01] <hsivonen> zcorpan: this stuff is confusing!
  597. # [16:03] <zcorpan> maybe it's possible to change css's definition of whitespace to exclude the form feed too, but i don't think the csswg are willing to do that (they didn't want to add u+000b as whitespace to match html5 back when html5 had that, which was in part why u+000b was removed from html5)
  598. # [16:04] <zcorpan> (the other reason was that u+000b wasn't consistently implemented as whitespace in browsers anyway)
  599. # [16:11] * Joins: aho (~nya@fuld-4d00d326.pool.mediaWays.net)
  600. # [16:15] <hsivonen> zcorpan: consistently implemented on the parser layer, yes. Not consistently implemented throughout the engine.
  601. # [16:15] * Joins: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-134-27-91.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)
  602. # [16:17] <zcorpan> hsivonen: iirc there was something with ie not always considering u+000b to be whitespace in the parser, but i forget the details
  603. # [16:22] * Joins: boaz (~boaz@64.119.153.2)
  604. # [16:28] <hsivonen> is this pre-LC component barred from accepting new bugs?
  605. # [16:28] * Joins: agektmr (~Adium@p3113-ipbf1903marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  606. # [16:36] <hsivonen> it would have been nice to disable bugmail during the mass update
  607. # [16:39] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: true
  608. # [16:39] * MikeSmith does that now
  609. # [16:40] <MikeSmith> problem is that when I do disable it, I usually forget to turn it back on
  610. # [16:47] * Joins: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  611. # [16:56] * Joins: paul_irish (~paul_iris@nat/google/x-znjqlikzbznpjkpm)
  612. # [16:56] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181063178.pp.htv.fi)
  613. # [17:00] * Quits: pesla (~pesla@188.202.125.121) (Quit: kthxbye!)
  614. # [17:01] * Quits: Steve_B (~chatzilla@gatek.thls.bbc.co.uk) (Remote host closed the connection)
  615. # [17:02] * Quits: maikmerten (~merten@ls5dhcp196.cs.uni-dortmund.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
  616. # [17:06] * Joins: FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly)
  617. # [17:15] * Quits: rimantas (~rimliu@lan-84-240-20-219.vln.skynet.lt) (Quit: Leaving)
  618. # [17:19] <f1lt3r> anyone know where I could find: "Robin Berjon"? (re: <device>)
  619. # [17:28] * Quits: karlushi (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Quit: Freedom - to walk free and own no superior.)
  620. # [17:28] * Joins: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  621. # [17:31] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachlan@pat-tdc.opera.com) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  622. # [17:45] * Quits: JoePeck (~JoePeck@c-76-102-33-198.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: -)
  623. # [17:50] * Joins: jgornick (~joe@199.199.212.242)
  624. # [17:52] * Joins: tonyg-cr (~Adium@nat/google/x-lhnauucxngqyjund)
  625. # [17:52] * Quits: hsivonen (~hsivonen@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  626. # [17:52] * Joins: cardona507 (~cardona50@c-67-180-160-250.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  627. # [17:52] * Joins: tndH (~Rob@cpc6-seac20-2-0-cust102.7-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
  628. # [17:53] * Joins: hsivonen (~hsivonen@kremlin-wall.niksula.hut.fi)
  629. # [18:03] * Quits: mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@wg1-nat.fwgal01.deri.ie) (Quit: mhausenblas)
  630. # [18:06] <TabAtkins> f1lt3r: Blog? Twitter? Email?
  631. # [18:08] <Philip`> Street address?
  632. # [18:12] * Quits: jgornick (~joe@199.199.212.242) (Quit: jgornick)
  633. # [18:12] * Quits: aho (~nya@fuld-4d00d326.pool.mediaWays.net) (Quit: EXEC_over.METHOD_SUBLIMATION)
  634. # [18:16] * Joins: JonathanNeal (~Jonathan_@rrcs-76-79-114-214.west.biz.rr.com)
  635. # [18:19] * Quits: daedb (~daed@78-72-108-100-no178.tbcn.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  636. # [18:20] * Joins: daedb (~daed@78-72-108-100-no178.tbcn.telia.com)
  637. # [18:31] * Joins: fishd_ (~fishd@nat/google/x-jmwjrgcodntvbpvm)
  638. # [18:35] * Joins: mathrick (~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk)
  639. # [18:36] * Quits: fishd (~fishd@nat/google/x-xhfvqppnkwvvrffp) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  640. # [18:37] <mathrick> hi guys
  641. # [18:37] <mathrick> may I ask how exactly the whole versioning mechanism came to be in WebSQL?
  642. # [18:37] * Joins: robreact (~chatzilla@smtp1bos1.globalmediaxchange.com)
  643. # [18:37] <mathrick> because as far as I can see it's 1) completely broken 2) totally unsuitable for the single stating purpose, ie. ensuring that a known and supported schema version is being used
  644. # [18:38] * Quits: mdelaney (~mdelaney@c-69-181-26-199.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: mdelaney)
  645. # [18:38] <TabAtkins> gsnedders: As long as your initial guess is "sufficiently close", yeah, it'll terminate.
  646. # [18:39] <mathrick> http://pastebin.com/MUJTBXza
  647. # [18:39] <mathrick> my understanding of these snippets is that you can never successfully change the schema version unless you happen to guess the existing version exactly
  648. # [18:40] <mathrick> you can also never *read* the version, making it basically impossible to check if you know how to operate on the data safely
  649. # [18:45] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-ec9fe355.410-6-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Quit: zcorpan)
  650. # [18:47] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachlan@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no)
  651. # [18:50] * Joins: ap (~ap@2620:0:1b00:1191:226:4aff:fe14:aad6)
  652. # [18:50] * Joins: maikmerten (~maikmerte@port-92-201-192-125.dynamic.qsc.de)
  653. # [18:55] * Joins: mdelaney (~mdelaney@67.218.105.144)
  654. # [18:56] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
  655. # [19:01] * Quits: matjas (~matjas@ip-81-11-180-97.dsl.scarlet.be) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  656. # [19:02] * Quits: workmad3 (~workmad3@cspool86.cs.man.ac.uk) (Remote host closed the connection)
  657. # [19:04] * Quits: reni__home (~reni@sedkit.inf.u-szeged.hu) (Quit: Leaving)
  658. # [19:05] * Joins: daedb_ (~daed@78-72-108-100-no178.tbcn.telia.com)
  659. # [19:05] <AryehGregor> Amusing: http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=57816
  660. # [19:07] * Quits: daedb (~daed@78-72-108-100-no178.tbcn.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  661. # [19:07] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  662. # [19:08] * Joins: matjas (~matjas@ip-213-49-93-99.dsl.scarlet.be)
  663. # [19:11] * Quits: hsivonen (~hsivonen@kremlin-wall.niksula.hut.fi) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  664. # [19:13] * Quits: mat_t (~mattomasz@91.189.88.12) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  665. # [19:16] * Joins: hsivonen (~hsivonen@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi)
  666. # [19:17] * Quits: zalan (~zalan@catv-89-135-140-7.catv.broadband.hu) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  667. # [19:18] * aroben is now known as aroben|lunch
  668. # [19:25] * Joins: loucapo (~Adium@209.251.200.243)
  669. # [19:26] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@nat/mozilla/x-wzrvplwdjjvvqoty)
  670. # [19:27] * Quits: paul_irish (~paul_iris@nat/google/x-znjqlikzbznpjkpm) (Remote host closed the connection)
  671. # [19:32] <mathrick> also, http://www.w3.org/TR/webdatabase talks about read/write mode a lot, but no method takes a parameter called "mode"
  672. # [19:32] <mathrick> in particular, transaction() / readTransaction() don't, and it's implied they should
  673. # [19:32] <mathrick> http://www.w3.org/TR/webdatabase/#dom-database-transaction
  674. # [19:33] * Joins: mcdave (~mcdave@cm-83-97-166-198.telecable.es)
  675. # [19:38] * Quits: payman_m (~payman_m@77.72.99.119) (Quit: payman_m)
  676. # [19:38] * Quits: fishd_ (~fishd@nat/google/x-jmwjrgcodntvbpvm) (Quit: Leaving)
  677. # [19:38] * Joins: dglazkov (~dglazkov@nat/google/x-xqjzugfltrdbluam)
  678. # [19:39] * Parts: loucapo (~Adium@209.251.200.243)
  679. # [19:39] * Parts: JonathanNeal (~Jonathan_@rrcs-76-79-114-214.west.biz.rr.com) ("Leaving")
  680. # [19:40] * Quits: agektmr (~Adium@p3113-ipbf1903marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Quit: Leaving.)
  681. # [19:48] * Joins: ojan (~ojan@nat/google/x-muvepthgihxitjmh)
  682. # [19:52] * Joins: pesla (~pesla@ip51cc03a5.speed.planet.nl)
  683. # [19:52] <gsnedders> TabAtkins: Yeah, that's what I found looking online. So I concluded my working had gone wrong. :)
  684. # [19:53] <gsnedders> (I later found my mistake, and just made it to his English Language lecture on time)
  685. # [19:53] <gsnedders> s/his/my/
  686. # [19:53] * gsnedders blatantly uses actions way too much
  687. # [19:54] * Joins: apucacao (~apucacao@S010600226b6dbc54.vc.shawcable.net)
  688. # [19:57] * Quits: mdelaney (~mdelaney@67.218.105.144) (Quit: mdelaney)
  689. # [19:59] * Quits: GPHemsley (~GPHemsley@pdpc/supporter/student/GPHemsley) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  690. # [20:00] * Joins: workmad3 (~workmad3@cpc3-bagu10-0-0-cust651.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com)
  691. # [20:00] <gsnedders> Hixie: http://barkavenueblog.blogspot.com/2009/04/tokyo-cat-cafe-big-business.html (via wilhelm)
  692. # [20:02] * Quits: dglazkov (~dglazkov@nat/google/x-xqjzugfltrdbluam) (Remote host closed the connection)
  693. # [20:02] * Joins: mdelaney (~mdelaney@2620:0:1b00:1191:d69a:20ff:febf:89a0)
  694. # [20:02] * Joins: dglazkov (~dglazkov@nat/google/x-awgvctxqelsmsiwa)
  695. # [20:06] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@nat/mozilla/x-nzhuwtfkdxbjtvld)
  696. # [20:07] * Joins: paul_irish (~paul_iris@nat/google/x-xszsslosbxkmsima)
  697. # [20:09] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@nat/mozilla/x-nzhuwtfkdxbjtvld) (Client Quit)
  698. # [20:09] * Quits: workmad3 (~workmad3@cpc3-bagu10-0-0-cust651.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  699. # [20:10] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@nat/mozilla/x-mnwlmefstelsvnnz)
  700. # [20:10] * Joins: chronos (~quassel@unaffiliated/chronos)
  701. # [20:11] * aroben|lunch is now known as aroben
  702. # [20:11] * Quits: matjas (~matjas@ip-213-49-93-99.dsl.scarlet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
  703. # [20:13] * Joins: matjas (~matjas@ip-213-49-93-99.dsl.scarlet.be)
  704. # [20:17] * Quits: mdelaney (~mdelaney@2620:0:1b00:1191:d69a:20ff:febf:89a0) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  705. # [20:21] * Quits: matjas (~matjas@ip-213-49-93-99.dsl.scarlet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
  706. # [20:31] * Quits: maikmerten (~maikmerte@port-92-201-192-125.dynamic.qsc.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  707. # [20:35] * Joins: Druid_ (~druid@p5B137EAB.dip.t-dialin.net)
  708. # [20:40] * Quits: Druide__ (~druid@p5B1364EE.dip.t-dialin.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  709. # [20:45] * Joins: plainhao (~plainhao@mail.xbiotica.com)
  710. # [20:46] * Joins: maikmerten (~maikmerte@port-92-201-155-156.dynamic.qsc.de)
  711. # [20:50] * Quits: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  712. # [20:51] * Joins: erlehmann_ (~erlehmann@dslb-188-102-052-195.pools.arcor-ip.net)
  713. # [20:52] * Quits: dglazkov (~dglazkov@nat/google/x-awgvctxqelsmsiwa) (Quit: dglazkov)
  714. # [20:53] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@dslb-094-223-087-097.pools.arcor-ip.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  715. # [20:54] * Quits: tonyg-cr (~Adium@nat/google/x-lhnauucxngqyjund) (Quit: Leaving.)
  716. # [20:54] * Joins: tonyg-cr (~Adium@nat/google/x-ydenmnoqkiktdxrc)
  717. # [21:01] * Quits: apucacao (~apucacao@S010600226b6dbc54.vc.shawcable.net) (Quit: apucacao)
  718. # [21:01] * Quits: paul_irish (~paul_iris@nat/google/x-xszsslosbxkmsima) (Remote host closed the connection)
  719. # [21:03] * Joins: zalan (~zalan@catv-89-135-140-7.catv.broadband.hu)
  720. # [21:04] * Joins: erlehmann__ (~erlehmann@178.0.113.244)
  721. # [21:05] * Joins: workmad3 (~workmad3@cpc3-bagu10-0-0-cust651.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com)
  722. # [21:05] * Quits: FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly) (Quit: swatted to death)
  723. # [21:06] * Joins: dglazkov (~dglazkov@nat/google/x-gfcyplmmwbvkokoj)
  724. # [21:06] * Joins: FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly)
  725. # [21:07] * Quits: zalan (~zalan@catv-89-135-140-7.catv.broadband.hu) (Client Quit)
  726. # [21:07] * Quits: erlehmann_ (~erlehmann@dslb-188-102-052-195.pools.arcor-ip.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  727. # [21:09] * Joins: mikekelly (mikek@s3x0r.biz)
  728. # [21:09] <mikekelly> hi fans
  729. # [21:09] * Quits: tonyg-cr (~Adium@nat/google/x-ydenmnoqkiktdxrc) (Quit: Leaving.)
  730. # [21:09] <mikekelly> I came to ask about the PUT/DELETE removal from http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#attr-fs-method
  731. # [21:09] * Quits: erlehmann__ (~erlehmann@178.0.113.244) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  732. # [21:09] <mikekelly> any word on that?
  733. # [21:10] * Quits: pesla (~pesla@ip51cc03a5.speed.planet.nl) (Quit: zzzzleepy!)
  734. # [21:11] * Joins: paul_irish (~paul_iris@nat/google/x-fvwngketekccuvra)
  735. # [21:13] * Joins: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  736. # [21:16] * Joins: tonyg-cr (~Adium@nat/google/x-hduyufgbnbtelmid)
  737. # [21:18] * Quits: maikmerten (~maikmerte@port-92-201-155-156.dynamic.qsc.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
  738. # [21:18] * Joins: sebmarkbage (d5506daa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.80.109.170)
  739. # [21:21] * Joins: erlehmann__ (~erlehmann@dslb-094-223-084-102.pools.arcor-ip.net)
  740. # [21:25] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@nat/mozilla/x-mnwlmefstelsvnnz) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.10/20100920140826])
  741. # [21:26] * Quits: erlehmann__ (~erlehmann@dslb-094-223-084-102.pools.arcor-ip.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  742. # [21:26] * Joins: erlehmann (~erlehmann@dslb-188-103-023-188.pools.arcor-ip.net)
  743. # [21:31] * Quits: robreact (~chatzilla@smtp1bos1.globalmediaxchange.com) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.10/20100914125854])
  744. # [21:34] * Joins: hamcore (rhythm@unaffiliated/hamcore)
  745. # [21:42] * Quits: plainhao (~plainhao@mail.xbiotica.com) (Quit: plainhao)
  746. # [21:43] * aroben is now known as aroben|phone
  747. # [21:46] * Quits: workmad3 (~workmad3@cpc3-bagu10-0-0-cust651.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  748. # [21:47] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@mail.oldinn.com)
  749. # [21:47] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@mail.oldinn.com) (Client Quit)
  750. # [21:48] * Quits: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  751. # [21:48] * Joins: ben_alman (~cowboy@64.119.153.2)
  752. # [21:52] * Joins: estes (~aestes@17.246.18.235)
  753. # [21:53] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@c-98-223-109-93.hsd1.in.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  754. # [21:59] * Quits: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  755. # [22:00] * Quits: paul_irish (~paul_iris@nat/google/x-fvwngketekccuvra) (Remote host closed the connection)
  756. # [22:00] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.203.14.223)
  757. # [22:00] * Joins: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  758. # [22:03] * aroben|phone is now known as aroben
  759. # [22:03] * Quits: estes (~aestes@17.246.18.235) (Quit: estes)
  760. # [22:03] * Joins: jgornick (~joe@199.199.212.242)
  761. # [22:04] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@nat/mozilla/x-agyzivjykfymnvuj)
  762. # [22:05] * Joins: paul_irish (~paul_iris@nat/google/x-lwoaxgeepekixqay)
  763. # [22:09] * Joins: estes (~aestes@17.246.18.235)
  764. # [22:11] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@mail.oldinn.com)
  765. # [22:15] * Quits: f1lt3r (~f1lt3r@64.119.153.2) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  766. # [22:16] * Quits: paul_irish (~paul_iris@nat/google/x-lwoaxgeepekixqay) (Remote host closed the connection)
  767. # [22:18] * Quits: cardona507 (~cardona50@c-67-180-160-250.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: zzzzz)
  768. # [22:18] * Joins: dpranke (~Adium@nat/google/x-tngdsaodohuiolbz)
  769. # [22:18] * Quits: ZombieLoffe (~e@unaffiliated/zombieloffe)
  770. # [22:21] <othermaciej> are any of the people who commented on the link relation thread planning to write up a proposal of the wiki-based approach? (AryehGregor? hober? TabAtkins?) I haven't seen a volunteer yet and if no one does it then the IANA approach will win by default, which would be unfortunate given the number of people advocating the microformats wiki instead
  771. # [22:21] * Quits: variable (~variable@unaffiliated/variable) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  772. # [22:21] <TabAtkins> othermaciej: What's the deadline?
  773. # [22:21] <othermaciej> October 27
  774. # [22:21] <TabAtkins> Yeah, I'll do it if no one else picks it up.
  775. # [22:22] * Joins: ZombieLoffe (~e@unaffiliated/zombieloffe)
  776. # [22:26] <hober> I'll help with it, but I don't want to drive. :)
  777. # [22:27] <hober> tantek would be a good person to have help on that
  778. # [22:28] * Joins: heycam (~cam@203-97-204-82.dsl.clear.net.nz)
  779. # [22:29] <TabAtkins> Yeah, that's what I was thinking too.
  780. # [22:30] * Joins: f1lt3r (~f1lt3r@64.119.153.2)
  781. # [22:32] * Joins: paul_irish (~paul_iris@nat/google/x-qzrcnqaztwybmtnv)
  782. # [22:41] * aroben is now known as aroben|away
  783. # [22:44] <mathrick> okay, guys, WTF
  784. # [22:44] <mathrick> why does executeSql work async?
  785. # [22:44] <mathrick> is the fact the transaction callback is run asynchronously already not enough?
  786. # [22:45] <mathrick> I'm surprised that ResultSets can be accessed without involving callbacks somewhere
  787. # [22:46] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181063178.pp.htv.fi) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 4.0b7pre/20100927115653])
  788. # [22:47] * Joins: cardona507 (~cardona50@c-67-180-160-250.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  789. # [22:47] * Joins: pesla (~pesla@ip51cc03a5.speed.planet.nl)
  790. # [22:47] * Joins: justinhjohnson (~justinjn@67-131-94-2.dia.static.qwest.net)
  791. # [22:47] * Quits: hamcore (rhythm@unaffiliated/hamcore) (Quit: <rh>: I'm invincible as long as i'm alive.)
  792. # [22:49] * Quits: justinhjohnson (~justinjn@67-131-94-2.dia.static.qwest.net) (Client Quit)
  793. # [22:55] <Hixie> mathrick: anything that might take more than zero time is async, otherwise the browser might lock up while the call is happening
  794. # [22:55] * Quits: ROBOd (~robod@89.123.139.34) (Quit: .)
  795. # [22:56] <mathrick> Hixie: then to be honest rows.length should also be async, as as the spec notes it might be expensive
  796. # [22:56] <mikekelly> hi Hixie
  797. # [22:56] <mathrick> besides, there are already *Sync() variants, so the lockup is still possible
  798. # [22:56] <mikekelly> Hixie, did you get back to anyone on that missing PUT/DELETE thing?
  799. # [22:56] * Joins: mdelaney (~mdelaney@2620:0:1b00:1191:d69a:20ff:febf:89a0)
  800. # [22:57] <mathrick> Hixie: and unrelated to async, I still think that the whole changeVersion() interface is horribly broken
  801. # [22:57] <mathrick> why does it not pass in the current DB version?
  802. # [22:57] <mathrick> you have no way to enumerate DBs, and no way to learn the current version
  803. # [22:58] <mathrick> so you have to try each possible combination of versions until one works
  804. # [23:00] <Hixie> mathrick: yeah, the .rows being sync and the changeVersion() API sucking are known bugs. That spec is dead though so I doubt anything will happen to fix those problems.
  805. # [23:00] * Joins: workmad3 (~workmad3@cpc3-bagu10-0-0-cust651.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com)
  806. # [23:01] <mathrick> *sigh*
  807. # [23:02] * Quits: f1lt3r (~f1lt3r@64.119.153.2) (Quit: Do I really need more Java in my Script?)
  808. # [23:03] <mathrick> Hixie: so we have WebSQL, which is a huge pain to use, and broken in many places, and will never be supported by Mozilla, and IndexedDB, which is similarly broken but doesn't give a useful query language
  809. # [23:03] <TabAtkins> For the broken parts, comment on it!
  810. # [23:03] <mathrick> proposed specs should not have glaring bugs apparent on the first reading ever :(
  811. # [23:03] <TabAtkins> it = IndexedDB.
  812. # [23:03] <mathrick> TabAtkins: the draft at W3C doesn't have a nice comment box like the whatwg documents do
  813. # [23:03] <mathrick> but in a nutshell, it's race conditions waiting to happen
  814. # [23:04] <TabAtkins> No, but it has a mailing list.
  815. # [23:04] * Quits: Peter- (~peter@5ED0FE14.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  816. # [23:04] <mathrick> "Every method for making asynchronous requests returns an IDBRequest object that communicates back to the requesting application through events." <-- here be race conditions
  817. # [23:05] <Hixie> mathrick: yes. Not much I can do about either though. If you want Web SQL DB resurrected, convince Mozilla and Microsoft to implement it (I'll spec the SQL profile if necessary). If you want IndexedDB to not suck, send comments on it, it's a work in progress.
  818. # [23:05] <mathrick> http://www.w3.org/TR/IndexedDB/#idl-def-IDBRequest <-- No method for providing error handlers upon creation, and no method to read if it's finished with an error or not
  819. # [23:05] <Hixie> IRC is not a good place to send feedback
  820. # [23:05] <TabAtkins> mathrick: I'm not an editor of that spec, nor is Hixie. Email the list.
  821. # [23:05] <Hixie> it's especially not a good place for IndexedDB since none of the IndexedDB editors are here :-)
  822. # [23:07] <mathrick> yeah, I'm just being disheartened by the piles of brokenness I encounter every time I try to use the newer APIs
  823. # [23:09] * Quits: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  824. # [23:09] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  825. # [23:12] * Joins: romeo_ (~romeo__@x1-6-00-10-a7-28-f3-47.k562.webspeed.dk)
  826. # [23:12] * Joins: nattokirai (~nattokira@ac242062.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp)
  827. # [23:13] * aroben|away is now known as aroben
  828. # [23:15] * Quits: chronos (~quassel@unaffiliated/chronos) (Remote host closed the connection)
  829. # [23:16] * Joins: justinhjohnson (~justinjn@67-131-94-2.dia.static.qwest.net)
  830. # [23:16] * Quits: justinhjohnson (~justinjn@67-131-94-2.dia.static.qwest.net) (Client Quit)
  831. # [23:19] * Quits: cardona507 (~cardona50@c-67-180-160-250.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  832. # [23:19] * Joins: cardona507 (~cardona50@c-67-180-160-250.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  833. # [23:23] * Joins: f1lt3r (~f1lt3r@64.119.153.2)
  834. # [23:23] <jgraham> http://reprog.wordpress.com/2010/09/05/bibliographic-data-part-3-has-anyone-anywhere-ever-read-the-whole-of-the-rda-specification/ Never let anyone tell you that HTML5 is too long, ever again
  835. # [23:24] * Quits: BlurstOfTimes (~blurstoft@168.203.117.107) (Remote host closed the connection)
  836. # [23:25] <paul_irish> oh my.
  837. # [23:25] <karlcow> "As best I can tell, the current total is about 1640 pages — so if you printed it out on standard 80 gsm paper, it would be 17 cm thick (nearly 7 inches) and weigh something over 8 kg (18 pounds)."
  838. # [23:25] * Joins: kennyluck (~kennyluck@114-43-122-83.dynamic.hinet.net)
  839. # [23:25] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@114-43-122-83.dynamic.hinet.net) (Excess Flood)
  840. # [23:25] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@mail.oldinn.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  841. # [23:26] <karlcow> it is still less than the changelog of Irak article on wikipedia ;) http://booktwo.org/notebook/wikipedia-historiography/
  842. # [23:26] <AryehGregor> Is there really no way to tell Bugzilla not to notify everyone when you make mass changes like renaming a component?
  843. # [23:27] <jgraham> Well it is a bit unfair to compare full history against a single snapshot
  844. # [23:27] * Joins: boaz_ (~boaz@64.119.153.2)
  845. # [23:28] * Quits: f1lt3r (~f1lt3r@64.119.153.2) (Quit: Do I really need more Java in my Script?)
  846. # [23:28] <Hixie> complete.html is about 500-600 pages, but that doesn't include things like SVG, CSS, MathML, HTTP, etc, which really should be part of the same spec IMHO, if we're going to spec The Platform
  847. # [23:29] <Hixie> what are the 1640 pages speccing?
  848. # [23:29] <Hixie> the blog post wasn't clear about that
  849. # [23:29] <jgraham> http://www.rdatoolkit.org/home
  850. # [23:29] * Quits: boaz (~boaz@64.119.153.2) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  851. # [23:29] * boaz_ is now known as boaz
  852. # [23:30] <karlcow> http://www.rdatoolkit.org/constituencyreview
  853. # [23:30] * Quits: pesla (~pesla@ip51cc03a5.speed.planet.nl) (Quit: kthxbye!)
  854. # [23:31] * Joins: JoePeck (~JoePeck@2620:0:1b00:1f08:fa1e:dfff:fed9:b9a)
  855. # [23:32] <karlcow> from what I can see it is also using a large font. This kind of stats would be better counting words more than pages. Still it is a lot
  856. # [23:32] <karlcow> they use extensive prose to describe each feature
  857. # [23:33] <karlcow> example: 2.3.1.1
  858. # [23:33] <karlcow> A title is a word, phrase, character, or group of characters that
  859. # [23:33] <karlcow> names a resource or a work contained in it.
  860. # [23:33] <karlcow> More than one title may appear in the resource itself (e.g., on a title page, title frame, etc.; as a caption title, running title, etc.; on a cover, spine, etc.; on a title bar, etc.), on a jacket, sleeve, container, etc., or in material accompanying the resource.
  861. # [23:34] <karlcow> they have also a *lot* of examples
  862. # [23:35] * Quits: nattokirai (~nattokira@ac242062.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) (Quit: nattokirai)
  863. # [23:35] * Joins: nattokirai (~nattokira@ac242062.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp)
  864. # [23:36] * Joins: kennyluck (~kennyluck@114-43-122-83.dynamic.hinet.net)
  865. # [23:36] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@114-43-122-83.dynamic.hinet.net) (Excess Flood)
  866. # [23:38] * Joins: f1lt3r (~f1lt3r@64.119.153.2)
  867. # [23:39] * Parts: mikekelly (mikek@s3x0r.biz) ("Leaving")
  868. # [23:40] * Quits: workmad3 (~workmad3@cpc3-bagu10-0-0-cust651.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: stupidity buffer overflow)
  869. # [23:41] * Quits: f1lt3r (~f1lt3r@64.119.153.2) (Client Quit)
  870. # [23:44] * Quits: Rik` (~Rik`@mozilla-paris-222-194.cnt.nerim.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  871. # [23:44] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181063178.pp.htv.fi)
  872. # Session Close: Tue Oct 05 00:00:00 2010

The end :)