Options:
- # Session Start: Tue Dec 28 00:00:00 2010
- # Session Ident: #whatwg
- # [00:02] * Joins: mokush (~quassel@188.24.42.76)
- # [00:17] * Joins: beowulf (u116@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hljkksegixhnoxlt)
- # [00:19] * Joins: boogyman (~boogy@unaffiliated/boogyman)
- # [00:24] * Quits: frozenicce (~deppo@ip-178-202-180-193.unitymediagroup.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
- # [00:26] * Quits: mokush (~quassel@188.24.42.76) (Remote host closed the connection)
- # [00:28] * Joins: Phae (u455@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qrlwtxrdkzzmxjrf)
- # [00:34] * Joins: Yuhong (~chatzilla@c-67-183-8-18.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
- # [00:35] * Joins: Aleoss (~AleossIRC@71-17-23-65.regn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca)
- # [00:39] <Yuhong> So what will happen to www-html and www-html-editor now that XHTML2 is dead?
- # [00:39] * Quits: plomlompom (~plomlompo@i59F6C77.versanet.de) (Quit: Lost terminal)
- # [00:42] * Quits: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
- # [00:43] * Joins: MrOpposite (~mropposit@unaffiliated/mropposite)
- # [00:50] * Quits: Yuhong (~chatzilla@c-67-183-8-18.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
- # [00:51] * Joins: kbrosnan (~kbrosnan@firefox/community/qa/kbrosnan)
- # [00:52] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@c-24-6-209-6.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
- # [00:57] * Quits: kbrosnan (~kbrosnan@firefox/community/qa/kbrosnan) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [01:01] * Joins: tndH (~Rob@adsl-87-102-16-149.karoo.KCOM.COM)
- # [01:02] * Quits: Steve^ (~steve@cpc2-hari1-0-0-cust1111.hari.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: Leaving)
- # [01:03] * Joins: kbrosnan (~kbrosnan@firefox/community/qa/kbrosnan)
- # [01:14] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@2620:0:1b00:1191:223:32ff:feaf:7f36) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
- # [01:33] * Joins: wakaba_ (~wakaba_@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
- # [01:35] * Joins: jaket (~jake@124-168-40-34.dyn.iinet.net.au)
- # [01:46] * Quits: MrOpposite (~mropposit@unaffiliated/mropposite) (Remote host closed the connection)
- # [01:46] * Quits: jaket (~jake@124-168-40-34.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Quit: jaket)
- # [01:55] * Quits: exp` (~zAyghip8@cpc2-ely02-0-0-cust338.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: nn)
- # [01:56] * Joins: cardona507 (~cardona50@72.235.169.13)
- # [01:57] * cardona507 is now known as cgcardona
- # [02:03] * Joins: erlehmann (~erlehmann@89.204.137.65)
- # [02:03] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@c-24-130-56-198.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
- # [02:16] * Quits: bga_ (~bga@ppp91-122-51-148.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
- # [02:18] * Quits: roc (~chatzilla@222-152-174-182.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
- # [02:21] * Quits: variable (~variable@unaffiliated/variable) (Read error: Operation timed out)
- # [02:23] * Joins: variable (~variable@unaffiliated/variable)
- # [02:33] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM114-48-51-86.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
- # [02:33] * Quits: charlvn (~charlvn@charlvn.com) (Quit: Leaving)
- # [02:39] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM111-188-110-215.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
- # [02:43] * Quits: cying (~cying@c-24-23-135-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: cying)
- # [02:44] * Joins: espadrine` (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-153-247.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr)
- # [02:44] * Quits: kbrosnan (~kbrosnan@firefox/community/qa/kbrosnan) (Quit: Lost terminal)
- # [02:45] * Joins: kbrosnan (~kbrosnan@firefox/community/qa/kbrosnan)
- # [02:46] * Quits: espadrine (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-82-45.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
- # [02:46] * espadrine` is now known as espadrine
- # [02:47] * Joins: jaket (~jake@124-168-40-34.dyn.iinet.net.au)
- # [02:57] * Quits: ZombieLoffe (~e@unaffiliated/zombieloffe)
- # [03:02] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@89.204.137.65) (Quit: Die demokratieerhaltende Whistleblower-Organisation Krautchan freut sich immer über Spenden.)
- # [03:25] * Joins: roc (~chatzilla@222-152-172-40.jetstream.xtra.co.nz)
- # [03:32] * Joins: espadrine` (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-153-247.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr)
- # [03:33] * Quits: espadrine (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-153-247.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Operation timed out)
- # [03:33] * espadrine` is now known as espadrine
- # [03:36] * Joins: bga_ (~bga@ppp91-122-51-148.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru)
- # [03:55] * Quits: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
- # [04:00] * Quits: boogyman (~boogy@unaffiliated/boogyman) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
- # [04:02] * Joins: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01)
- # [04:06] * Joins: ZombieLoffe (~e@unaffiliated/zombieloffe)
- # [04:11] * bga_ is now known as bga_|away
- # [04:11] * bga_|away is now known as bga_
- # [04:15] * Quits: Amorphous (jan@unaffiliated/amorphous) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
- # [04:28] * Joins: Amorphous (jan@unaffiliated/amorphous)
- # [04:56] * Quits: ZombieLoffe (~e@unaffiliated/zombieloffe)
- # [04:56] * Joins: cying (~cying@c-24-23-135-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
- # [05:00] * Quits: cgcardona (~cardona50@72.235.169.13) (Quit: zzzzz)
- # [05:09] * Joins: kennyluck (~kennyluck@2001:200:1c0:3602:225:ff:fe4d:f8c7)
- # [05:22] * Joins: cardona507 (~cardona50@cpe-76-93-205-223.hawaii.res.rr.com)
- # [05:23] * Quits: cardona507 (~cardona50@cpe-76-93-205-223.hawaii.res.rr.com) (Client Quit)
- # [05:24] * Joins: cardona507 (~cardona50@cpe-76-93-205-223.hawaii.res.rr.com)
- # [05:24] * cardona507 is now known as cgcardona
- # [05:36] * bga_ is now known as bga_|away
- # [05:36] * bga_|away is now known as bga_
- # [05:43] * Quits: kbrosnan (~kbrosnan@firefox/community/qa/kbrosnan) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
- # [05:45] * Joins: kbrosnan (~kbrosnan@firefox/community/qa/kbrosnan)
- # [05:55] * Quits: paul_irish (~paul_iris@c-24-2-153-55.hsd1.ct.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
- # [05:55] * Joins: paul_irish (~paul_iris@c-24-2-153-55.hsd1.ct.comcast.net)
- # [05:58] * Joins: shepazu (~schepers@76.2.184.20)
- # [05:58] * bga_ is now known as bga_|away
- # [05:59] * Quits: cying (~cying@c-24-23-135-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: cying)
- # [05:59] * Quits: paul_irish (~paul_iris@c-24-2-153-55.hsd1.ct.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
- # [06:11] * Quits: cgcardona (~cardona50@cpe-76-93-205-223.hawaii.res.rr.com) (Quit: zzzzz)
- # [06:28] * Quits: shepazu (~schepers@76.2.184.20) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [06:29] * Joins: shepazu (~schepers@76.2.184.20)
- # [06:37] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@71.147.38.99) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.13/20101209123813])
- # [06:58] * Joins: cying (~cying@c-24-23-135-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
- # [07:01] * Joins: paul_irish (~paul_iris@c-24-2-153-55.hsd1.ct.comcast.net)
- # [07:12] * Quits: paul_irish (~paul_iris@c-24-2-153-55.hsd1.ct.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
- # [07:12] * Joins: paul_irish (~paul_iris@c-24-2-153-55.hsd1.ct.comcast.net)
- # [07:17] * Quits: paul_irish (~paul_iris@c-24-2-153-55.hsd1.ct.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
- # [07:24] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@c-24-130-56-198.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: weinig)
- # [07:33] * Quits: jaket (~jake@124-168-40-34.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Quit: jaket)
- # [07:37] * Joins: jaket (~jake@124-168-40-34.dyn.iinet.net.au)
- # [07:52] * Joins: cardona507 (~cardona50@cpe-98-150-150-230.hawaii.res.rr.com)
- # [07:53] * cardona507 is now known as cgcardona
- # [07:55] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@dsl-hkibrasgw4-fe41dc00-67.dhcp.inet.fi)
- # [07:58] * Joins: paul_irish (~paul_iris@c-24-2-153-55.hsd1.ct.comcast.net)
- # [08:02] * Quits: paul_irish (~paul_iris@c-24-2-153-55.hsd1.ct.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
- # [08:30] * Joins: sean` (~Sean@D97A9F8D.cm-3-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
- # [08:33] * Quits: Kuruma (~Kuruman@p19170-ipngn1701marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
- # [08:35] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM111-188-110-215.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
- # [08:35] * Joins: matjas (~matjas@91.182.201.227)
- # [08:40] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM111-188-9-162.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
- # [08:41] * Quits: jaket (~jake@124-168-40-34.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Quit: jaket)
- # [08:43] * Quits: shepazu (~schepers@76.2.184.20) (Quit: shepazu)
- # [08:48] * Joins: nielsle (~nielsle@4135136-cl69.boa.fiberby.dk)
- # [08:49] * Joins: Kuruma (~Kuruman@p19170-ipngn1701marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
- # [08:56] * Quits: cying (~cying@c-24-23-135-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: cying)
- # [09:19] * Joins: rimantas (~rimliu@lan-84-240-20-219.vln.skynet.lt)
- # [09:30] * Joins: ROBOd (~robod@92.84.204.182)
- # [09:59] * Joins: frozenicce (~deppo@ip-109-90-232-35.unitymediagroup.de)
- # [10:02] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-4798e355.410-6-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
- # [10:05] * Quits: Sosby (fsosby@s2.rdlbnc.com) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
- # [10:06] * Joins: Sosby (fsosby@70.32.34.100)
- # [10:06] * Joins: BaD_CrC (~john@unaffiliated/bad-crc)
- # [10:18] * Quits: Necrathex (~nectop@212-123-163-12.ip.telfort.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
- # [10:21] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: if you're around, I'm wanted to ask a question about the script ABNF at http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/scripting-1.html#restrictions-for-contents-of-script-elements
- # [10:22] <MikeSmith> or Hixie, if you're around
- # [10:23] <zcorpan> if websocket unmasking key is SHA-1(uuid, server nonce, client nonce, per-frame key)? how would you know what to use as per-frame key to get 0 as unmasking key?
- # [10:23] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: what about it?
- # [10:25] * Joins: mokush (~quassel@188.24.42.76)
- # [10:25] * Quits: boaz (~boaz@c-24-128-79-120.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Quit: boaz)
- # [10:25] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: so the need to check for is "<!--" without a later "-->" is clear, but I'm trying to remember what I need to do for the "<script and "</script"
- # [10:26] <MikeSmith> is it not sufficient to have a check for "</script" followed by space, "/", or ">"?
- # [10:27] <MikeSmith> I don't understand why the ABNF has the stuff about "script-start = lt s c r i p t tag-end"
- # [10:27] <MikeSmith> instead of just for script-end
- # [10:35] <zcorpan> so e.g. "foobar(data1) <!--(escape) foobar(data2) <script>(script-start) foobar(data3) </script>(script-end) foobar(data2) <script>(script-start) foobar(data3) --> foobar(data1)" should be valid if i'm reading the abnf correctly
- # [10:35] <zcorpan> i don't understand why [ script-start data3 ] is in the first row
- # [10:36] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachlan@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
- # [10:38] <zcorpan> i also don't understand why it has [ escape ] at the end
- # [10:39] <MikeSmith> yeah
- # [10:40] <MikeSmith> even if I could implement that as spec'ed, I have no clue what kind of end-user-friendly error message I could report that would actually be useful
- # [10:40] <zcorpan> maybe i'm reading the abnf wrong, because it seems bogus to me :)
- # [10:41] * Joins: espadrine` (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-153-247.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr)
- # [10:41] * Quits: espadrine (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-153-247.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [10:41] * espadrine` is now known as espadrine
- # [10:42] <MikeSmith> I'm not sure those constraints are useful for the sake of document validation anyway
- # [10:45] <MikeSmith> since you can't feed the validator a DOM
- # [10:45] <MikeSmith> but instead a serialized document
- # [10:47] <zcorpan> a validator could be operating on the dom level if it's a browser extension
- # [10:47] <MikeSmith> well
- # [10:47] <MikeSmith> it's not going to be executing script hopefully
- # [10:48] <zcorpan> the browser executes script
- # [10:48] <MikeSmith> ah
- # [10:51] <MikeSmith> that's already a problematic use case
- # [10:52] <MikeSmith> for one thing, reporting the locations of any errors
- # [10:54] <zcorpan> you could point to the node and clicking it highlights the node in dragonfly
- # [10:56] <MikeSmith> yeah, could, potentially
- # [10:57] <MikeSmith> but the backend doesn't yet have any means for enabling that
- # [11:01] * Joins: maikmerten (~maikmerte@port-92-201-185-195.dynamic.qsc.de)
- # [11:02] * Joins: jeremyselier (~Jeremy@pro75-4-82-238-200-10.fbx.proxad.net)
- # [11:04] <zcorpan> sure, validator.nu isn't built for that environment in mind
- # [11:05] <zcorpan> s/in mind//
- # [11:12] <MikeSmith> anyway, I implemented the core checks for "/*" without a later "/*" and "//", for the script/@src case, and "<!--" without a later "-->" for both the src-less script case and script/@src case
- # [11:13] <MikeSmith> and got it up now at http://www.w3.org/html/check
- # [11:15] <zcorpan> cool
- # [11:17] <MikeSmith> I hope hsivonen will have time soon for some reviewing
- # [11:18] <zcorpan> i think it'd be more useful if the spec had parse errors for bogus <!--<script> cases in the parser
- # [11:20] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: i can't test xhtml with http://www.w3.org/html/check ?
- # [11:20] <MikeSmith> yeah you can
- # [11:20] <MikeSmith> under Options
- # [11:20] <zcorpan> oh
- # [11:22] * Quits: sean` (~Sean@D97A9F8D.cm-3-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Quit: Leaving)
- # [11:23] <zcorpan> <script></script></script> in xhtml is invalid according to the spec
- # [11:23] <zcorpan> but i don't think that's particularly useful to check for, personally
- # [11:24] * Quits: ormaaj (~quassel@174-20-150-226.mpls.qwest.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [11:25] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachlan@pat-tdc.opera.com)
- # [11:25] * Joins: ormaaj (~quassel@174-20-150-226.mpls.qwest.net)
- # [11:35] * Joins: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
- # [11:45] * Joins: ZombieLoffe (~e@unaffiliated/zombieloffe)
- # [11:53] * Quits: mokush (~quassel@188.24.42.76) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
- # [12:08] * Joins: Necrathex (~nectop@95-36-102-13.dsl.alice.nl)
- # [12:26] * Quits: wakaba_ (~wakaba_@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Quit: Leaving...)
- # [12:26] * Joins: erlehmann (~erlehmann@89.204.137.85)
- # [12:30] * Joins: Necra (~nectop@86.89.51.91)
- # [12:30] <Necra> !loltip
- # [12:30] <Necra> oops
- # [12:31] * Quits: Necrathex (~nectop@95-36-102-13.dsl.alice.nl) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
- # [12:37] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: I can't check for that in the datatype-checking code anyway
- # [12:38] <MikeSmith> because by the time it gets to that part of the code, "<" and "<" are the same
- # [12:40] * Quits: Necra (~nectop@86.89.51.91) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [12:46] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: so? the abnf bans the textContent "</script>"
- # [12:46] * Joins: sean` (~Sean@D97A9F8D.cm-3-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
- # [12:49] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@5355737B.cm-6-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
- # [12:50] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@5355737B.cm-6-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
- # [12:50] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@5355737B.cm-6-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
- # [12:50] * Quits: daedb (~daed@78-72-108-100-no178.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
- # [12:53] * Joins: daedb (~daed@78-72-108-100-no178.tbcn.telia.com)
- # [12:53] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@89.204.137.85) (Quit: Die demokratieerhaltende Whistleblower-Organisation Krautchan freut sich immer über Spenden.)
- # [12:57] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
- # [13:11] * Joins: Necra (~nectop@86.89.51.91)
- # [13:11] * Quits: Necra (~nectop@86.89.51.91) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [13:11] * Quits: mike][inq (~mike@2001:858:5:303:224:81ff:fe12:b5c4) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
- # [13:12] * Joins: boblet (~boblet@p1186-ipbf908osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp)
- # [13:12] * Quits: nielsle (~nielsle@4135136-cl69.boa.fiberby.dk) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
- # [13:20] * Joins: mlpug (~mlpug@a88-115-171-217.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
- # [13:26] * Joins: nielsle (~nielsle@4135136-cl69.boa.fiberby.dk)
- # [13:40] * Quits: mlpug (~mlpug@a88-115-171-217.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Remote host closed the connection)
- # [13:46] * Joins: mike][inq (~mike@2001:858:5:303:224:81ff:fe12:b5c4)
- # [13:54] * Quits: cgcardona (~cardona50@cpe-98-150-150-230.hawaii.res.rr.com) (Quit: zzzzz)
- # [13:57] * Joins: Steve^ (~steve@cpc2-hari1-0-0-cust1111.hari.cable.virginmedia.com)
- # [14:01] * Quits: webr3 (~nathan@host86-156-126-71.range86-156.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
- # [14:02] * Quits: ttepasse (~ttepasse@ip-109-90-161-169.unitymediagroup.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
- # [14:10] * Joins: webr3 (~nathan@host86-143-254-49.range86-143.btcentralplus.com)
- # [14:13] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@c-24-6-209-6.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: othermaciej)
- # [14:13] * Joins: saba (~foo@unaffiliated/saba)
- # [14:14] * Joins: ttepasse (~ttepasse@ip-109-90-161-169.unitymediagroup.de)
- # [14:15] * Quits: hendry (~hendry@webconverger.org) (Quit: brb)
- # [14:15] * Joins: hendry (~hendry@webconverger.org)
- # [14:31] * Joins: MikeSmith_ (~MikeSmith@EM111-188-33-48.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
- # [14:32] * Joins: charlvn (~charlvn@charlvn.com)
- # [14:34] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM111-188-9-162.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
- # [14:34] * MikeSmith_ is now known as MikeSmith
- # [14:34] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@dsl-hkibrasgw4-fe41dc00-67.dhcp.inet.fi) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
- # [14:39] * Joins: boaz (~boaz@c-24-128-79-120.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
- # [14:39] * Quits: boaz (~boaz@c-24-128-79-120.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
- # [14:44] * Quits: tomaw (tom@freenode/staff/tomaw) (Quit: Quitting)
- # [14:45] * Joins: tomaw (tom@freenode/staff/tomaw)
- # [14:51] * Quits: ttepasse (~ttepasse@ip-109-90-161-169.unitymediagroup.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [14:55] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@user-160vrg5.cable.mindspring.com)
- # [14:55] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@user-160vrg5.cable.mindspring.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
- # [14:55] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@user-160vrg5.cable.mindspring.com)
- # [14:56] * bga_|away is now known as bga_
- # [14:56] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@pool-74-109-118-167.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
- # [14:56] * Joins: ttepasse (~ttepasse@ip-109-90-161-169.unitymediagroup.de)
- # [14:57] * Quits: boblet (~boblet@p1186-ipbf908osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp) (Quit: thxbye)
- # [15:01] * Quits: ttepasse (~ttepasse@ip-109-90-161-169.unitymediagroup.de) (Client Quit)
- # [15:01] * Joins: ttepasse (~ttepasse@ip-109-90-161-169.unitymediagroup.de)
- # [15:04] * Joins: boaz (~boaz@c-24-128-79-120.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
- # [15:06] * Quits: ttepasse (~ttepasse@ip-109-90-161-169.unitymediagroup.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [15:11] * Quits: boaz (~boaz@c-24-128-79-120.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Quit: boaz)
- # [15:14] * Joins: boaz (~boaz@c-24-128-79-120.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
- # [15:15] * Quits: boaz (~boaz@c-24-128-79-120.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
- # [15:17] * Joins: plainhao (~plainhao@208.75.85.237)
- # [15:18] <bga_> i can not send mail to es-discuss@mozilla.org :(
- # [15:19] <bga_> i have sended mail twice, but it do not displays in discuss tree
- # [15:22] * Joins: espadrine` (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-153-247.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr)
- # [15:25] * Quits: Steve^ (~steve@cpc2-hari1-0-0-cust1111.hari.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
- # [15:25] * Quits: espadrine (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-153-247.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
- # [15:25] * espadrine` is now known as espadrine
- # [15:29] * Joins: ttepasse (~ttepasse@ip-109-90-161-169.unitymediagroup.de)
- # [15:37] * Joins: espadrine` (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-153-247.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr)
- # [15:37] * Quits: espadrine (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-153-247.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [15:37] * espadrine` is now known as espadrine
- # [15:39] * bga_ is now known as bga_|away
- # [15:46] * Quits: saba (~foo@unaffiliated/saba) (Quit: leaving)
- # [15:52] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@user-160vrg5.cable.mindspring.com) (Quit: miketaylr)
- # [15:55] * Quits: variable (~variable@unaffiliated/variable) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
- # [15:56] * Joins: Steve^ (~steve@cpc2-hari1-0-0-cust1111.hari.cable.virginmedia.com)
- # [15:56] * Joins: paul_irish (~paul_iris@c-24-2-153-55.hsd1.ct.comcast.net)
- # [15:57] * Joins: saba (~foo@unaffiliated/saba)
- # [16:01] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@user-160vrg5.cable.mindspring.com)
- # [16:02] * Quits: Keizer (~keizer@66-55-165-122.ds1-static.mia1.net.ststelecom.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [16:05] * Joins: espadrine` (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-153-247.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr)
- # [16:05] * Quits: espadrine (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-153-247.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [16:05] * espadrine` is now known as espadrine
- # [16:10] * Joins: erlehmann (~erlehmann@node-d580asa4x2xnznn.ipv6.congress.ccc.de)
- # [16:13] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@node-d580asa4x2xnznn.ipv6.congress.ccc.de) (Read error: Operation timed out)
- # [16:13] * Joins: erlehmann_ (~erlehmann@89.238.77.238)
- # [16:13] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachlan@pat-tdc.opera.com) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
- # [16:13] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@c-24-130-56-198.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
- # [16:14] * bga_|away is now known as bga_
- # [16:19] * Joins: Stikki (~lordstich@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fed4f900-36.dhcp.inet.fi)
- # [16:20] * erlehmann_ is now known as erlehmann
- # [16:25] * Parts: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-4798e355.410-6-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
- # [16:26] * Joins: espadrine` (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-153-247.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr)
- # [16:26] * Quits: espadrine (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-153-247.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [16:26] * espadrine` is now known as espadrine
- # [16:28] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachlan@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no)
- # [16:30] * Quits: espadrine (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-153-247.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [16:30] * Joins: espadrine` (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-153-247.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr)
- # [16:31] * Joins: erlehmann_ (~erlehmann@89.238.77.215)
- # [16:31] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@89.238.77.238) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
- # [16:32] * erlehmann_ is now known as erlehmann
- # [16:32] * Joins: variable (~variable@unaffiliated/variable)
- # [16:35] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@dsl-hkibrasgw4-fe41dc00-67.dhcp.inet.fi)
- # [16:46] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@c-24-130-56-198.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: weinig)
- # [16:51] * Quits: rimantas (~rimliu@lan-84-240-20-219.vln.skynet.lt) (Quit: Leaving)
- # [16:52] * Joins: espadrine (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-153-247.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr)
- # [16:52] * Quits: espadrine` (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-153-247.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [16:53] * Joins: boaz (~boaz@64.119.153.2)
- # [16:53] * Quits: boaz (~boaz@64.119.153.2) (Client Quit)
- # [17:00] * Joins: boaz (~boaz@64.119.153.2)
- # [17:02] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@89.238.77.215) (Quit: Die demokratieerhaltende Whistleblower-Organisation Krautchan freut sich immer über Spenden.)
- # [17:09] * Quits: virtuelv (~virtuelv_@193.62.9.46.customer.cdi.no) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
- # [17:11] * Joins: TabAtkins (~tabatkins@nat/google/x-sipolywvtuyqpoyu)
- # [17:12] * Quits: BaD_CrC (~john@unaffiliated/bad-crc) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
- # [17:18] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@dsl-hkibrasgw4-fe41dc00-67.dhcp.inet.fi) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
- # [17:21] * Joins: boaz__ (~boaz@64.119.153.2)
- # [17:24] * Quits: boaz (~boaz@64.119.153.2) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
- # [17:24] * boaz__ is now known as boaz
- # [17:25] * Joins: seventh (seventh@199.48.240.4)
- # [17:34] * Quits: variable (~variable@unaffiliated/variable) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [17:34] * Joins: _bga (~bga@ppp91-122-51-148.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru)
- # [17:34] * Joins: variable (~variable@unaffiliated/variable)
- # [17:37] * Quits: bga_ (~bga@ppp91-122-51-148.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
- # [17:40] * Joins: maikmerten_ (~maikmerte@port-92-201-37-152.dynamic.qsc.de)
- # [17:42] * Quits: maikmerten (~maikmerte@port-92-201-185-195.dynamic.qsc.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
- # [17:43] * Quits: Aleoss (~AleossIRC@71-17-23-65.regn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
- # [17:47] * Quits: nielsle (~nielsle@4135136-cl69.boa.fiberby.dk) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
- # [17:52] <_bga> http://blog.mozilla.com/security/2010/12/27/addons-mozilla-org-disclosure/
- # [18:04] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@adsl-71-147-38-99.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net)
- # [18:07] * Joins: nielsle (~nielsle@4135136-cl69.boa.fiberby.dk)
- # [18:09] * Quits: Martijnc` (~Martijnc@91.176.104.98) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
- # [18:09] <webben> Would it not make sense to allow microdata to take value from the .value property of form fields? http://www.w3.org/TR/microdata/#values
- # [18:10] <TabAtkins> Hm, that's interesting. The immediate problem I can see is that, in the course of normal web crawling, you'd often see the value as "".
- # [18:10] <TabAtkins> I suppose the use-case is to let the user fill out a form and then extract the Microdata from it automatically?
- # [18:15] <webben> TabAtkins: That's a use.
- # [18:15] * Joins: Martijnc` (~Martijnc@91.176.22.69)
- # [18:16] <webben> TabAtkins: I was actually looking at it in the context of http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/rest-discuss/message/17135?threaded=1&var=1&l=1
- # [18:17] <webben> TabAtkins: Which is discussing decorating HTML forms with RDFa semantics to decouple the domain vocabulary from the URL/form-encoding interface presented by the server and represented by @name
- # [18:17] * TabAtkins is reading.
- # [18:17] <webben> TabAtkins: "<input id="case_title" name="Case.Title" property="dc:title"/>" does not work AFAICT
- # [18:18] <webben> TabAtkins: Since RDFa designates that dc:title is @content or the concatenation of text nodes.
- # [18:18] <webben> I thought maybe microdata could do this, but it doesn't look like it.
- # [18:18] <TabAtkins> It seems like the linked use-case is exactly the use-case I described.
- # [18:19] * Joins: cying (~cying@c-24-23-135-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
- # [18:20] <webben> TabAtkins: Well if your use-case includes a programmer building a client to use the form, then yes.
- # [18:20] <TabAtkins> Which appears to be the described use-case, yes.
- # [18:20] <webben> ah ok
- # [18:21] <TabAtkins> Yeah, it seems to just be aiming for something that makes it easy to both extract the data client-side and server-side. Presumably there's already a framework server-side to convert the received form data into a more useful format.
- # [18:22] <TabAtkins> I'm not really sure what the value is of making @name and @property be different things.
- # [18:22] <webben> Well, it allows to use arbitrary @name's.
- # [18:23] <TabAtkins> Yes. So what's the value of that?
- # [18:23] <webben> Well, it allows you to present a consistent interface across different ways of processing name=value pairs.
- # [18:24] <webben> (For example, in PHP land, people tend to use foo[] for repeated values, but there's nothing baked into CGI about that.)
- # [18:24] <TabAtkins> How? There are only two ways I can see here - extracted as Microdata/RDFa on the client side, and received as name/value pairs on the server side.
- # [18:24] <TabAtkins> Those don't seem consistent unless you go to efforts to make them consistent.
- # [18:25] <webben> TabAtkins: I think the idea is the serverside processing and URLs could completely change, while clientside processing would persist.
- # [18:26] <webben> So for example you could change the @names and types of form attributes, but the client would persistently look for dc:title
- # [18:26] <webben> *of form fields
- # [18:27] <TabAtkins> Is there any good reason for this, though? Surely you could add an interpretation layer on the serverside that translates the kv pairs to whatever you needed?
- # [18:28] <webben> TabAtkins: Sure. Additional layers of processing doesn't sound more efficient than a persistent client interaction though.
- # [18:29] <TabAtkins> Sure. I'm just wondering about the utility of that. Extra indirection (a single piece of data referred to through two names) needs to be justified.
- # [18:29] * Quits: sean` (~Sean@D97A9F8D.cm-3-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [18:29] * Joins: sean` (~Sean@D97A9F8D.cm-3-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
- # [18:30] <webben> TabAtkins: Well, at least it offers the potential to use a specific name (e.g. dc:title) rather than what's basically an opaque string (@name)
- # [18:30] <webben> s/specific/generically understood/
- # [18:31] <TabAtkins> @property is an opaque string as well. It has exactly as much meaning as @name, until you add meaning to it.
- # [18:31] * Joins: MrOpposite (~mropposit@unaffiliated/mropposite)
- # [18:31] <webben> TabAtkins: You can't reference a specific vocabulary via @name can you?
- # [18:32] <TabAtkins> Sure. I can put <input name="dc:title"> in my page.
- # [18:32] <TabAtkins> No current processor will recognize it as a curie, but I could do it.
- # [18:32] <webben> TabAtkins: That's still an opaque name in the absence of rules like microdata or RDFa for extracting it.
- # [18:32] <TabAtkins> Sure. Rules could be added if necessary, of course.
- # [18:33] <webben> Yes. It /might/ be that at least part of this usage could be addressed by providing such rules.
- # [18:34] <webben> I'm not sure there any standardizable way to map such vocabularies to a query string though.
- # [18:34] <TabAtkins> Hm? Of course there is. ?dc:title=foo
- # [18:35] <webben> TabAtkins: How about nested keys?
- # [18:35] <TabAtkins> You can't express that in forms.
- # [18:37] * Quits: othree (~othree@admin39.ct.ntust.edu.tw) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
- # [18:37] * Joins: othree (~othree@admin39.ct.ntust.edu.tw)
- # [18:38] * Joins: espadrine` (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-153-247.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr)
- # [18:38] * Quits: espadrine (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-153-247.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [18:38] * espadrine` is now known as espadrine
- # [18:38] <webben> TabAtkins: well, you can ... e.g. name="book[4]title"
- # [18:38] <TabAtkins> Ah, yeah, sure, you can do server-side processing.
- # [18:38] <webben> exactly
- # [18:39] <webben> providing an independent mapping of the HTML representation to a shared vocabulary allows you to decouple the details of that processing from the client code.
- # [18:39] * Joins: f1lt3r_bocoup (~f1lt3r@64.119.153.2)
- # [18:40] <TabAtkins> Hm, okay, I see your point. Trying to automatically express the relationship in the key sent over the wire is probably a harder problem than just letting people express it twice themselves (once explicitly in the @name, once implicitly in the microdata structure).
- # [18:40] <webben> I suspect so.
- # [18:43] * Quits: boaz (~boaz@64.119.153.2) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
- # [18:44] * Quits: f1lt3r_bocoup (~f1lt3r@64.119.153.2) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
- # [18:44] * Joins: boaz (~boaz@64.119.153.2)
- # [18:45] * Quits: MrOpposite (~mropposit@unaffiliated/mropposite) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
- # [18:48] <webben> TabAtkins: I think the point about value beginning in an invalid form (e.g. "" for a non-null data type) is a problem though.
- # [18:49] <webben> TabAtkins: I guess in so far as HTML5 can express data types/validity without script, extraction of data rather than extraction of input points could be premised on validity.
- # [18:49] <TabAtkins> Hm, that's true.
- # [18:50] <TabAtkins> But that would mean that, for example, non-required inputs would still be included.
- # [18:51] <webben> Excluding blank values might be possible; or including blank values might not be damaging - I'm not sure.
- # [18:52] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@user-160vrg5.cable.mindspring.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [18:52] * Joins: miketayl_r (~miketaylr@user-160vrg5.cable.mindspring.com)
- # [18:53] * miketayl_r is now known as miketaylr
- # [19:02] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@c-24-6-209-6.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
- # [19:04] * Quits: espadrine (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-153-247.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [19:04] * Joins: espadrine (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-153-247.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr)
- # [19:06] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@c-24-6-209-6.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
- # [19:07] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@pool-74-109-118-167.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
- # [19:08] * Joins: erlehmann (~erlehmann@node-d635hwidefzzpz7.ipv6.congress.ccc.de)
- # [19:11] * Quits: espadrine (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-153-247.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [19:11] * Joins: espadrine (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-153-247.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr)
- # [19:11] * Quits: oojacoboo (~jacob@96-32-175-233.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com) (Quit: oojacoboo)
- # [19:14] * Quits: espadrine (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-153-247.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [19:14] * Joins: espadrine (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-153-247.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr)
- # [19:15] * Quits: espadrine (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-153-247.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [19:15] * Joins: espadrine (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-153-247.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr)
- # [19:17] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@node-d635hwidefzzpz7.ipv6.congress.ccc.de) (Quit: Die demokratieerhaltende Whistleblower-Organisation Krautchan freut sich immer über Spenden.)
- # [19:22] * Joins: stevela (~stevela@74.125.59.76)
- # [19:22] * Quits: Steve^ (~steve@cpc2-hari1-0-0-cust1111.hari.cable.virginmedia.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [19:23] * Joins: Steve^ (~steve@cpc2-hari1-0-0-cust1111.hari.cable.virginmedia.com)
- # [19:25] * Quits: jeremyselier (~Jeremy@pro75-4-82-238-200-10.fbx.proxad.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
- # [19:25] * Quits: Steve^ (~steve@cpc2-hari1-0-0-cust1111.hari.cable.virginmedia.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [19:25] * Joins: bga_ (~bga@ppp91-122-51-148.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru)
- # [19:25] * Joins: Steve^ (~steve@cpc2-hari1-0-0-cust1111.hari.cable.virginmedia.com)
- # [19:28] * Quits: _bga (~bga@ppp91-122-51-148.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
- # [19:36] * Joins: f1lt3r_bocoup (~f1lt3r@64.119.153.2)
- # [19:40] * Joins: Evet (~Evet@unaffiliated/evet)
- # [19:42] * Joins: kurrik (~kurrik@216.239.45.130)
- # [19:42] * Quits: Steve^ (~steve@cpc2-hari1-0-0-cust1111.hari.cable.virginmedia.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [19:43] * Joins: Steve^ (~steve@cpc2-hari1-0-0-cust1111.hari.cable.virginmedia.com)
- # [19:50] <matjas> TabAtkins: [post] - [site] fo’ sho’!
- # [19:50] * Quits: Steve^ (~steve@cpc2-hari1-0-0-cust1111.hari.cable.virginmedia.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [19:50] * Joins: Steve^ (~steve@cpc2-hari1-0-0-cust1111.hari.cable.virginmedia.com)
- # [19:51] <TabAtkins> matjas: That's what I was thinking. [site] - [post] is only for corporate branding - I find putting the post first is a lot more attractive for blogs.
- # [19:51] * Joins: espadrine` (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-153-247.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr)
- # [19:51] * Quits: Steve^ (~steve@cpc2-hari1-0-0-cust1111.hari.cable.virginmedia.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [19:51] * Quits: espadrine (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-153-247.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [19:51] * espadrine` is now known as espadrine
- # [19:52] * Joins: Steve^ (~steve@cpc2-hari1-0-0-cust1111.hari.cable.virginmedia.com)
- # [19:52] <matjas> TabAtkins: replied on Twitter as well, but [p] - [s] is definitely the most useful variant if you consider small tab sizes (like in Chrome)
- # [19:53] * Joins: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)
- # [19:56] * Joins: cardona507 (~cardona50@cpe-98-150-150-230.hawaii.res.rr.com)
- # [19:56] * Quits: cardona507 (~cardona50@cpe-98-150-150-230.hawaii.res.rr.com) (Client Quit)
- # [20:02] * Joins: erlehmann (~erlehmann@node-d580asa4x2xnznn.ipv6.congress.ccc.de)
- # [20:03] <webr3> why not just [title]
- # [20:04] * Joins: GarethAdams|Home (~GarethAda@pdpc/supporter/active/GarethAdams)
- # [20:05] <TabAtkins> That makes it harder to, frex, remember where a bookmark came from.
- # [20:05] <TabAtkins> Anyway, done.
- # [20:05] <matjas> Yay!
- # [20:06] <TabAtkins> Also exposed a bug where I wasn't setting rel=canonical properly. I've rearchitected slightly to make future bugs of this sort less likely.
- # [20:12] * bga_ is now known as bga_|away
- # [20:14] * bga_|away is now known as bga_
- # [20:14] * Quits: cying (~cying@c-24-23-135-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: cying)
- # [20:16] * Joins: oojacoboo (~jacob@96-38-235-118.static.gwnt.ga.charter.com)
- # [20:16] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@node-d580asa4x2xnznn.ipv6.congress.ccc.de) (Read error: Operation timed out)
- # [20:17] * Joins: cying (~cying@c-24-23-135-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
- # [20:21] * Joins: MrOpposite (~mropposit@unaffiliated/mropposite)
- # [20:21] * Quits: MrOpposite (~mropposit@unaffiliated/mropposite) (Remote host closed the connection)
- # [20:24] * bga_ is now known as bga_|away
- # [20:25] * Quits: espadrine (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-153-247.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [20:25] * Joins: espadrine (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-153-247.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr)
- # [20:29] * Quits: stevela (~stevela@74.125.59.76) (Quit: stevela)
- # [20:29] * Joins: stevela (~stevela@74.125.59.68)
- # [20:31] * Joins: MikeSmith_ (~MikeSmith@EM114-48-174-162.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
- # [20:33] <matjas> TabAtkins: heh, your site doesn’t work without the www.
- # [20:34] <TabAtkins> matjas: Indeed. That's the default for my provider - they seem to have a religious thing against it. I haven't cared enough to set it up differently.
- # [20:35] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM111-188-33-48.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
- # [20:35] * MikeSmith_ is now known as MikeSmith
- # [20:40] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachlan@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
- # [20:47] * Joins: Aleoss (~AleossIRC@204-83-16-179.regn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca)
- # [20:48] * Quits: cying (~cying@c-24-23-135-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: cying)
- # [20:51] <TabAtkins> Hixie: Any reason why the section on CSS pseudoclasses only mentions a restricted list of elements that can match :active, when in practice all browsers allow all elements to be :active while they are clicked?
- # [21:05] * bga_|away is now known as bga_
- # [21:12] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@user-160vrg5.cable.mindspring.com) (Quit: miketaylr)
- # [21:15] * Quits: f1lt3r_bocoup (~f1lt3r@64.119.153.2) (Remote host closed the connection)
- # [21:36] * Quits: maikmerten_ (~maikmerte@port-92-201-37-152.dynamic.qsc.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
- # [21:38] <Hixie> TabAtkins: iirc it was based on a request of the csswg, but honestly i don't recall
- # [21:38] * Quits: Aleoss (~AleossIRC@204-83-16-179.regn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca) (Quit: We love you, Dark Continent! Good night!)
- # [21:38] <Hixie> well
- # [21:40] <annevk> TabAtkins, wow, your provider is silly
- # [21:40] <annevk> TabAtkins, get DreamHost :)
- # [21:41] <Hixie> dreamhost are pretty silly too
- # [21:41] <Hixie> though maybe in a different way
- # [21:45] * Quits: plainhao (~plainhao@208.75.85.237) (Quit: plainhao)
- # [21:48] * Joins: espadrine` (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-153-247.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr)
- # [21:48] * Quits: espadrine (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-153-247.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [21:48] * espadrine` is now known as espadrine
- # [21:57] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@pool-74-109-118-167.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
- # [22:02] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@pool-74-109-118-167.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
- # [22:08] <TabAtkins> Hixie: I suspect it was a request from fantasai, since she dislikes the idea of arbitrary elements being activatable.
- # [22:09] <TabAtkins> Hixie: In any case, all browsers allow all elements to be :active.
- # [22:09] * Quits: sean` (~Sean@D97A9F8D.cm-3-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Quit: Leaving)
- # [22:09] <TabAtkins> I can file a bug if it would help.
- # [22:12] <Hixie> TabAtkins: yeah, file a bug or send e-mail. IE didn't used to do this like the others.
- # [22:13] <TabAtkins> Yeah, but they didn't use to do :hover on non-links either.
- # [22:13] <TabAtkins> Will file.
- # [22:13] <Hixie> so?
- # [22:13] <Hixie> we're talking about :active, not :hover :-)
- # [22:13] * Joins: boogyman (~boogy@unaffiliated/boogyman)
- # [22:13] <Hixie> if we do change this we'll have to define what :active means
- # [22:13] <TabAtkins> Right, but they're done through similar events, and conceivably are handled similarly in the browser.
- # [22:13] <Hixie> and how to do it from the keyboard
- # [22:14] <TabAtkins> You still can't activate arbitrary elements from the keyboard, unless they're tab-able or something.
- # [22:15] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@pool-108-16-43-69.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
- # [22:15] <Hixie> that seems suboptimal
- # [22:18] <TabAtkins> Huh. IE8 & 9 let any element be activated, but only the target of the click gets :active, not everything up the chain.
- # [22:19] <bga_> http://twitter.com/bga_/status/19863944524988416 :P
- # [22:20] <bga_> may be js not must know this. may be its security issue
- # [22:22] <TabAtkins> Bah, I can't be bothered to find the html bugzilla again. I'll just email. Same diff.
- # [22:26] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@c-24-6-209-6.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
- # [22:30] * Joins: riven` (~riven@53518387.cm-6-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
- # [22:30] * Quits: riven (~riven@53518387.cm-6-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Disconnected by services)
- # [22:30] * riven` is now known as riven
- # [22:34] <TabAtkins> Aren't there already some slightly hacky ways to force the event loop to spin in the middle of code? (Without breaking the code up and using setTimeout, that is.)
- # [22:37] * Joins: cardona507 (~cardona50@cpe-98-150-150-230.hawaii.res.rr.com)
- # [22:38] * Quits: cardona507 (~cardona50@cpe-98-150-150-230.hawaii.res.rr.com) (Client Quit)
- # [22:38] * Joins: cardona507 (~cardona50@cpe-98-150-150-230.hawaii.res.rr.com)
- # [22:38] * Quits: cardona507 (~cardona50@cpe-98-150-150-230.hawaii.res.rr.com) (Client Quit)
- # [22:39] * Joins: cardona507 (~cardona50@cpe-98-150-150-230.hawaii.res.rr.com)
- # [22:40] * Quits: cardona507 (~cardona50@cpe-98-150-150-230.hawaii.res.rr.com) (Client Quit)
- # [22:42] <TabAtkins> (I'm thinking something involving databases has this effect.)
- # [22:43] <Hixie> (fwiw, i use the same mechanism for e-mail and bugs now, so it really makes no difference to me)
- # [22:44] <TabAtkins> Hixie: Yeah, I know, that's why I did it.
- # [22:44] <Hixie> this xml/html tf is baffling to me
- # [22:44] <Hixie> they were created to figure out what problem they were created to figure out?
- # [22:44] * Quits: ROBOd (~robod@92.84.204.182) (Quit: .)
- # [22:44] <Hixie> the w3c is getting dangerously close to poe's law
- # [22:44] <TabAtkins> No, they were created to make HTML act more like XML. Nobody wants to admit it, though.
- # [22:44] <Hixie> we already did that in the whatwg
- # [22:44] <Hixie> years ago
- # [22:45] <Hixie> html is closer to xml than it ever has been
- # [22:45] <TabAtkins> But the namespaces, Hixie! THE NAMESPACES!
- # [22:45] <Hixie> the namespaces are issue 41
- # [22:45] <Hixie> it seems premature to do anything while we're still waiting for teh chairs to decide on that
- # [22:45] <TabAtkins> Yup.
- # [22:56] <karlcow> I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity.
- # [23:02] * Joins: f1lt3r_bocoup (~f1lt3r@64.119.153.2)
- # [23:07] * Quits: matjas (~matjas@91.182.201.227) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
- # [23:17] * bga_ is now known as bga_|away
- # [23:17] * Quits: charlvn (~charlvn@charlvn.com) (Quit: Leaving)
- # [23:17] * bga_|away is now known as bga_
- # [23:18] <TabAtkins> annevk: Looks like my provider added a one-click option for allowing bare domains since I last checked. It automatically issues a 301 to the www. version, which is fine with me.
- # [23:21] * annevk prefers without redundant characters
- # [23:21] <TabAtkins> I don't particularly care either way, I just want a canonical url for the google juice.
- # [23:21] <annevk> that is, long ago I bought into http://no-www.org/
- # [23:24] <TabAtkins> Doing what I just did (auto-redirect from bare to www) is compatible with no-www philosophy.
- # [23:24] <TabAtkins> I agree that not allowing the bare name isn't ideal. I only left it like that because I was lazy.
- # [23:25] <TabAtkins> Hehe, I love extra-www.org
- # [23:28] <annevk> I guess it is, yes, just seems like waste
- # [23:28] <TabAtkins> I don't understand what's being wasted.
- # [23:28] * Quits: espadrine (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-153-247.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [23:28] <annevk> characters :)
- # [23:28] * Joins: espadrine (~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-153-247.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr)
- # [23:29] <annevk> either characters or an additional request
- # [23:29] <TabAtkins> I don't understand how chars are wasted - people can still type/link the bare domain name.
- # [23:29] <TabAtkins> The additional request is required in one direction or the other, so I don't see much distinction about which direction it goes in.
- # [23:30] * Quits: boogyman (~boogy@unaffiliated/boogyman) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
- # [23:31] <kennyluck> huh. http://yes-www.org/ returns 403 while http://www.yes-www.org/ works
- # [23:31] <TabAtkins> Clearly they're doing the Hardcore option.
- # [23:32] <karlcow> one or the other it doesn't seem that important. How many type really type the letters of the domain name
- # [23:32] <TabAtkins> Yeah, I mean I just type "FACEBOOK LOG ME IN" into google.
- # [23:32] <karlcow> houla my usual dislexya
- # [23:33] <karlcow> how many time
- # [23:33] <karlcow> people
- # [23:33] <karlcow> geeez
- # [23:33] <annevk> actually TabAtkins, your site is not correct per no-www
- # [23:34] <annevk> not that it matters
- # [23:34] <TabAtkins> Hm?
- # [23:35] <annevk> check the validator
- # [23:35] <TabAtkins> Yeah, it won't work yet. I just made the DNS change, like, ten minutes ago.
- # [23:36] <karlcow> surprised nobody proposed worldwideweb.example.org
- # [23:39] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@pool-108-16-43-69.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
- # [23:39] * Joins: MrOpposite (~mropposit@unaffiliated/mropposite)
- # [23:43] * Quits: nielsle (~nielsle@4135136-cl69.boa.fiberby.dk) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
- # [23:49] * Quits: oojacoboo (~jacob@96-38-235-118.static.gwnt.ga.charter.com) (Quit: oojacoboo)
- # [23:59] <karlcow> another useless campaign http://www.antiifcampaign.com/
- # [23:59] <TabAtkins> Actually, that's not a bad campaign idea.
- # Session Close: Wed Dec 29 00:00:00 2010
The end :)