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- # Session Start: Sun Jan 23 00:00:00 2011
- # Session Ident: #whatwg
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- # [00:27] <zcorpan> hmm, i don't think i have my 5 > 2 t-shirt anymore
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- # [00:52] <rob_zelnr> well this is interesting, I didn't know about whatwg
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- # [03:49] <abarth> zcorpan is gone, but in Firefox they can be anything based on content sniffing and context
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- # [04:23] <oojacoboo> anyone know what version of html most mail clients use?
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- # [07:52] <Evet> is ext.js industry standard for client-side of javascript RIAs?
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- # [10:56] <annevk> morning
- # [10:56] <annevk> I might post tomorrow instead
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- # [13:51] <foolip_> anyone is welcome to contribute to the fight against Content-Type: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/NoVideoMime
- # [13:53] <erlehmann> whyyyyyy would you do that. ;_;
- # [13:55] <erlehmann> foolip_, wouldn't that make canPlayType even more non-intuitive?
- # [13:55] <foolip_> erlehmann, have you read the whole proposal?
- # [13:56] <erlehmann> i have. and i believe the removal of special casing is a good thing.
- # [14:00] <erlehmann> i find the lack of symmetry between canPlayType and actual honored mime type unconcerting. but i probably won't use canPlayType anyways.
- # [14:00] <foolip_> so that canPlayType("application/octet-stream") returns "maybe" ?
- # [14:00] <foolip_> that's what Opera does, actually, because I don't want the special-casing
- # [14:02] <erlehmann> "The MIME type "application/octet-stream" with no parameters is never a type that the user agent knows it cannot render." … so many negations!
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- # [14:03] <foolip_> it means that it shouldn't return ""
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- # [14:03] <foolip_> but it doesn't explicitly say if it should be "maybe" or "probably"
- # [14:03] <foolip_> arguably it's not the job of HTML to specify that, though
- # [14:06] <erlehmann> btw, how would a universal sniffing algorithm be specified then? celebrity deathmatch between quicktime and gstreamer coders?
- # [14:07] <foolip_> the same as today, the spec already requires sniffing, but doesn't define it
- # [14:07] <foolip_> Content-Type is only checked as a filter, after it passes that filter sniffing is used
- # [14:07] <foolip_> (this is what the spec says, only Opera actually does it that way)
- # [14:08] <foolip_> I imagine specifying the sniffing wouldn't be particularly hard though, Ogg and WAVE are trivial, only for WebM is there really any room for discussion
- # [14:09] <erlehmann> the central commitee of FILE(1) would be pleased
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- # [14:11] <erlehmann> … because as we know, there are known knowns; there are codecs we know we know. we also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are codecs we do not know. </rumsfeld>
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- # [14:15] <foolip_> are you quoting someone?
- # [14:16] <erlehmann> foolip_, https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Unknown_unknown#Usage
- # [14:17] <hsivonen> zcorpan: "to view WebM content" added. Thanks
- # [14:17] <hsivonen> Rik`: I plan to extract the strings
- # [14:18] <Rik`> hsivonen: ok, ping me when it's done and I'll translate in French
- # [14:19] <foolip_> erlehmann, you're most welcome to come up with other proposals for Content-Type sanity, anything that we can agree on and then forget about would be great
- # [14:19] <hsivonen> Rik`: ok
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- # [14:22] <erlehmann> foolip_, i was just joking. i actually have no idea what constitutes the best option.
- # [14:22] <erlehmann> my own experience is only that i have spent some time helping a website admin to change content-types to be able to use <audio> and <video>.
- # [14:23] <erlehmann> the only scenario i am really afraid of is that browsers may try to display a video sent as text/html if people universally disregard the content-type. unless that gets sniffed also …
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- # [14:24] * hsivonen approves of foolip_'s rant about the Chairs allowing inane ISSUEs to waste the group's time
- # [14:26] <foolip_> erlehmann, the idea is that if you send it as text/plain it will still work in <video>, but maybe not in a top-level browsing context, depending on the details of sniffing we arrive at
- # [14:26] <foolip_> erlehmann, like <img>, in other words
- # [14:27] <erlehmann> foolip_, the top-level browsing context is the one i am afraid about. are gif, jpg, png etc. sniffed at top-level?
- # [14:27] <foolip_> erlehmann, on that point I think that browsers actually differ
- # [14:28] <foolip_> IIRC, IE does sniff, but Opera doesn't
- # [14:28] <foolip_> or the other way around
- # [14:28] <erlehmann> (also, would safari ever sniff for webm in a top-level browsing context to avoid displaying it as text?)
- # [14:28] <foolip_> in any case, it's something we should standardize, and I believe standardized sniffing is indeed underway
- # [14:28] <erlehmann> just append a magic file to the spec, hue hue ue
- # [14:28] <foolip_> I'll of course mention this under "Negative"
- # [14:30] <erlehmann> i'll gladly donate my version of /usr/share/misc/magic.mgc
- # [14:31] <foolip_> hehe, I remember seeing big tables of magic bytes in some draft, so I think the data is there already :)
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- # [14:46] <hsivonen> Responded to the comments on the webm.html5.org announcement blog post. I don't really understand where the negativity about a JavaScript-based sniffer comes from.
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- # [15:24] <annevk> foolip_, just wanted to say +1
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- # [15:27] <foolip_> annevk, if put to a poll though, I have a hard time imagining my proposal drawing the least objections :)
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- # [15:28] <annevk> depends on how many HTTP gods are paying attention
- # [15:28] <foolip_> at least one :)
- # [15:28] <annevk> it would make sense for WebVTT and cache manifests too
- # [15:29] <foolip_> right, I dearly hope we're not going to check Content-Type for WebVTT
- # [15:29] <annevk> checking Content-Type really is a silly step, from an era when people still thought that type of content negotiation would work
- # [15:30] <foolip_> I've been tempted to configure my server to never send Content-Type, but am not sure if there's perhaps some things that would actually break, other than <video> that is
- # [15:30] * foolip_ tries serving HTML without Content-Type
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- # [15:36] <karlcow> foolip: I understand the desire to do content sniffing to recover misconfigured cases, but what would be the purpose of breaking things in advance.
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- # [15:38] <foolip_> karlcow, what things are being broken in advance?
- # [15:39] <karlcow> [09:27] * foolip_ tries serving HTML without Content-Type
- # [15:40] <karlcow> or is it just for test.
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- # [15:40] <foolip_> karlcow, that's just to see if it'll break or not, not at all related to the <video> thing
- # [15:40] <annevk> karlcow, less characters :)
- # [15:41] <foolip_> hehe, I don't think I'll see reduced bandwidth usage from that alone :)
- # [15:41] <karlcow> annevk: :p
- # [15:43] <annevk> I would love to take full control over HTTP
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- # [15:43] <annevk> I would do somewhat evil things like change CRLF to just LF
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- # [15:44] <annevk> omit a bunch of useless headers and generally just play around with things and probably breaking a bunch of browsers in subtle ways because no stock server ever tried that
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- # [15:45] <karlcow> Somehow it is a way to manufacture the future. There is a stage where you set rules, then usage shows some weaknesses of these rules, and then you try to adjust (error recovery), but then we create new rules to ignore completly the first ones (no content-type anymore), that will certainly break things that we didn't will break. Manufacturing a new system. "We always know the mess we have, we never know the mess we will create."
- # [15:45] <karlcow> s/will break/know we will break/
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- # [15:46] <foolip_> hsivonen, validator.nu needs Content-Type and assumed XML if it's missing, is this intentional?
- # [15:46] <foolip_> at least Opera seems to be OK with no Content-Type for HTML documents
- # [15:47] <annevk> karlcow, with the web we surprisingly often do not know the mess we have
- # [15:47] <annevk> karlcow, that is the whole point of e.g. defining an HTML parser or figuring out legacy encodings
- # [15:47] <annevk> karlcow, understanding the past
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- # [15:48] <annevk> foolip_, you might be interested in http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-websec-mime-sniff
- # [15:49] <foolip_> annevk, ah, that's the spec I was referring to when talking to erlehmann earlier
- # [15:49] <karlcow> annevk: yes you are repeating what I have written :)
- # [15:50] <foolip_> annevk, do you know if any browser implements this yet?
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- # [15:53] <karlcow> http://www.la-grange.net/2011/01/23/content-test
- # [15:53] <annevk> foolip_, I think we do to some extent and Chrome definitely does (though maybe has a few changes)
- # [15:53] <annevk> foolip_, Gecko does too
- # [15:53] <annevk> foolip_, not sure about Safari and IE
- # [15:53] <foolip_> annevk, mkay
- # [15:54] <foolip_> in any case it looks like removing Content-Type from all types in apache isn't possible from .htaccess, so it's off limits to most of us
- # [15:54] <karlcow> ok cool, at least Safari, Opera, and Firefox enforces my content-type
- # [15:54] <annevk> yeah, Apache sucks when it comes to HTTP control
- # [15:54] <foolip_> of course you can remove most types and then set the default to none
- # [15:55] <annevk> I wish there was a handle "i'll take care of this on my own for these files thanks you very much"
- # [15:55] <annevk> and it would not output anything
- # [15:55] <annevk> not even HTTP/1.1
- # [15:56] <foolip_> annevk, that wouldn't make any sense without script, right?
- # [15:56] <foolip_> and with PHP, I believe you do have full control if you want it
- # [15:57] <karlcow> foolip: do you have DefaultType None
- # [15:57] <foolip_> (storing the file including the HTTP headers on disk seems rather old-school)
- # [15:57] <foolip_> karlcow, yes, but it only gets used if no other type is found
- # [15:57] <karlcow> yep
- # [15:57] <annevk> foolip_, probably not without script no; if you know how with PHP, please tell me how
- # [15:58] <karlcow> then did you try ForceType None
- # [15:59] <karlcow> <Files foo.html>ForceType None</Files>
- # [15:59] <foolip_> karlcow, yes, but I could only get ForceType with a non-none value to work
- # [15:59] <karlcow> Apache > 2.1.5
- # [16:00] <foolip_> 2.2.something here
- # [16:01] <foolip_> well, ForceType " " sends and empty Content-Type header
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- # [16:04] <foolip_> I guess disabling mod_mime would be quite effective :)
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- # [16:04] <karlcow> DefaultType None Apache > 2.2.7
- # [16:05] <foolip_> I'm on 2.2.14 it seems
- # [16:07] <foolip_> not a surprising bug to have
- # [16:07] <foolip_> if (!forceType && ...) ...
- # [16:07] <foolip_> and None is represented as NULL
- # [16:07] <foolip_> oops
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- # [16:14] <karlcow> :) http://theshipthatflew.tumblr.com/post/2822714993
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- # [16:28] <gsnedders> Can people with IE copy/paste results for http://gsnedders.html5.org/window-prop-attributes.html?
- # [16:31] <gsnedders> (And yes, I do know all the problems that test has)
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- # [16:34] <gsnedders> (pref. results for both IE8 and 9)
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- # [16:45] <hsivonen> foolip_: IIRC, it is intentional, since HTML has one clear type but different flavors of XML are a mess
- # [16:46] <foolip_> hsivonen, and I don't suppose there's any plan to sniff as per http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-websec-mime-sniff-00 ?
- # [16:46] <hsivonen> foolip_: no plan
- # [16:48] <foolip_> k, no matter, don't suppose the text/html Content-Type is going to be extinct any time soon
- # [16:52] <hsivonen> I wonder how the estimate of Drupal powering over 1% of Web sites has been reached.
- # [16:53] <hsivonen> seems incredible on the face of things
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- # [16:53] <hsivonen> also, what do percentages of the Web mean? percentage of known servers? percentage of pages in Google's cache?
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- # [16:54] <hsivonen> obviously, the number of Web pages is infinite, because there are sites that have an infinite dynamic URL space
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- # [17:15] <kennyluck> percentage of known servers, I guess.
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- # [17:20] <hsivonen> hmm. gsnedders reveals who is in the cabal: https://twitter.com/#!/gsnedders/whatwg-cabal/members
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- # [17:22] <Ms2ger> gsnedders, you're out :)
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- # [17:27] <Philip`> That cabal is only a cover story for the real cabal
- # [17:27] <Ms2ger> There is no real cabal
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- # [17:40] <gsnedders> hsivonen: Hah, so you found what I created ages ago when I tried to find out if Twitter lists had any use.
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- # [19:22] <Hixie> http://www.w3.org/mid/4D3C6E7E.5000203@opera.com is right on.
- # [19:22] <Hixie> and i often don't agree with marcos ;-)
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- # [19:34] <Philip`> "it will make for a hell of a movie!:)" - I wonder who'll play Hixie in the The Social Network-style moviefication of the WHATWG
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- # [20:06] <hsivonen> I wonder who designed the SVG logo. It's so much nicer than the HTML5 logo.
- # [20:07] <hsivonen> also, if the HTML5 logo came from the idea of a keytone that morphed into a shield, the visual association with a keystone got completely lost
- # [20:07] <hsivonen> I'd even argue that keystone is bad i18n, because the same metaphor isn't universal in other languages
- # [20:07] <paul_irish> http://www.root2art.co.uk/ Harvey Rayner after shepazu ran a competition for it
- # [20:08] <hsivonen> paul_irish: thanks
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- # [20:09] <hsivonen> a competition mught have been a better way to develop a HTML(5) logo, too
- # [20:09] <hsivonen> *might
- # [20:13] <foolip_> hsivonen, you really like the SVG logo? no irony?
- # [20:13] <hsivonen> foolip_: yes. at least comparatively. do I have bad taste?
- # [20:15] <foolip_> well, taste differs, it's just that at the office last week we had a collective shock when we realized http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/svglogo.svg was actually an official logo
- # [20:15] <foolip_> anyway, no point in discussing taste, was just afraid my irony-detector was broken :)
- # [20:16] <foolip_> and parental control for <video> lives again! http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10904#c6
- # [20:16] <foolip_> s/#c6//
- # [20:16] <hsivonen> foolip_: more or less shocked than about the W3C HTML5 logo?
- # [20:16] <foolip_> hsivonen, we were pretty unimpressed by that too
- # [20:17] <foolip_> particularly how the 5 is two disjoint paths, so that antialiasing at the "wrong" resolution makes the orange shine through inbetween
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- # [20:20] <foolip_> witness the mess that is canPlayType! http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Video_type_parameters#Browser_Support
- # [20:27] <paul_irish> my, what a beauty!
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- # [21:00] <Yuhong> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html/msg/358f05eb3e9a79b5
- # [21:00] <Yuhong> On Netscape and CSS history.
- # [21:03] <Hixie> foolip_: man, you're on a roll
- # [21:03] * Ms2ger read "troll"
- # [21:04] <jcranmer> roll, troll, what's the difference?
- # [21:06] <Ms2ger> A "t".
- # [21:09] <Yuhong> How many people know that the first draft of CSS dates back to 1994?
- # [21:09] <jcranmer> how many people care?
- # [21:10] <Yuhong> BTW, Google Groups for "HTML 3.0 vs Netscape". Part of the discussion was about style sheets, and it dates back to 1995.
- # [21:12] <Hixie> ah, the bad old days
- # [21:12] <Hixie> those were the days
- # [21:12] <jcranmer> 1995, before I had a computer with internet access
- # [21:12] <Ms2ger> How old were you then? :)
- # [21:12] * gsnedders sticks his head up.
- # [21:12] <gsnedders> I don't remember.
- # [21:12] <Hixie> ...in many ways identical to these days :-P
- # [21:13] <jcranmer> hmm
- # [21:13] <Yuhong> UdiWWW was one browser that supported style sheets back them.
- # [21:13] <jcranmer> reading the list of newsgroups in a purely random order is fun
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- # [21:15] <jcranmer> alt.fan.unacanceller
- # [21:15] <hsivonen> I wonder what Arjun Ray is doing these days. one could spend a weekend reading his ciwah posts from the late 1990s
- # [21:18] <Yuhong> Arena was W3C's reference browser back then.
- # [21:21] <Yuhong> Did CSS really take a lot of resources to implement back in 1994? I have seen this claim.
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- # [21:25] * jgraham wonders if we can get Tim Burton to direct the WHATWG movie
- # [21:25] <jgraham> I love the idea of making it faux-Gothic
- # [21:26] <gsnedders> Heh, that would be awesome. That also reminds me that I was meaning to watch Corpse Bride again…
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- # [21:29] <Dashiva> jgraham: Just cast gsnedders as the main character and it won't need to be faux :P
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- # [21:30] <gsnedders> Dashiva: That reminds me, goth club next Saturday ;P
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- # [21:37] <Yuhong> The funny thing about it was that it was back when Marc Andreessen was posting on the www-* mailing lists.
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- # [21:49] <jgraham> Dashiva: The first rule of Tim Burton is that Johnny Depp is the main character
- # [21:50] <jgraham> So, taht's Hixie sorted
- # [21:51] <foolip_> Hixie, I'm home alone this weekend, nothing better to do :)
- # [21:51] <jgraham> Helena Bonham Carter also has to appear
- # [21:51] <jgraham> I vote we go for poetic license and cast her as Anne
- # [21:51] <jgraham> No American audience will go see a film with a man called Anne anyway
- # [21:52] * jgraham expects to die next time he sees annevk
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- # [21:53] <Hixie> foolip_: well so far i agree with all four of them, and they're gonna save me the effort of writing my own, so thanks :-)
- # [21:54] <foolip_> Hixie, np, looks like I'm out of open ISSUEs that I care about though :)
- # [21:54] <foolip_> good thing the weekend is almost over
- # [21:55] <foolip_> perhaps I'll troll about parental control a bit before bedtime
- # [21:56] <Hixie> the only issue that has a CP for which i feel i'll have to write a CCP is -127
- # [21:57] <Hixie> and before i write a ccp i have to work out if it would be less effort to write the ccp or just do what julian wants
- # [21:57] <Hixie> since i'm going to have time wasted either way anyway, best not waste more than necessary
- # [21:58] <foolip_> long term it might be a good tactic to tire him out with counter proposals, but it hasn't worked well so far
- # [21:58] <jgraham> I have not seen any evidence that such a long term strategy could work
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- # [22:00] <foolip_> perhaps I wasted my time writing a CP for ISSUE-151 before there was a CP I didn't agree with
- # [22:01] <foolip_> if such a CP drops in on the last day before the deadline, do the chairs usually extend the deadline for counter-CPs?
- # [22:01] <foolip_> if not, it's really too easy to create process spam and waste everyone's time
- # [22:02] <Hixie> oh, i guess i need to write a CCP for -155, too, but the deadline for CPs hasn't triggered yet even though it already has a CP.
- # [22:02] <Hixie> and -156
- # [22:02] <Hixie> oh that doesn't have a CP yet, nm
- # [22:03] <foolip_> so what happens with ISSUEs with only 1 CP? does that CP automatically get accepted?
- # [22:03] * foolip_ looks for Process Guideline
- # [22:04] <foolip_> found it: http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/decision-policy.html#change-proposal
- # [22:06] <Hixie> they do a request for amicable resolution
- # [22:07] <Hixie> not clear to me what happens if there's objections to the cp but no ccp
- # [22:07] <Hixie> i guess we might find out with the content-type stuff
- # [22:07] <foolip_> no, Julian had a CP for that, to change the wording somewhat
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- # [22:09] <foolip_> clearly the Process is Lots of Fun, but are there any serious issues that we've been able to put behind us after going through it?
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- # [22:10] <Hixie> foolip_: yes but there's been objections
- # [22:11] <Hixie> foolip_: i'm not aware of any serious issues being escalated and resolved by the process
- # [22:11] <Hixie> unless you count longdesc=""
- # [22:11] <Hixie> but people are still working to reopen that
- # [22:11] <benschwarz> Hixie: .htaccess doing you well?
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- # [22:12] <foolip_> well, at least it affects some conformance classes, so it's more serious than certain other ISSUEs in the pipeline
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- # [22:13] <Hixie> benschwarz: the gzip thing? i put it in, but haven't checked to see if it's working.
- # [22:13] <benschwarz> k
- # [22:14] <Hixie> foolip_: there's a list of resolved issues somewhere
- # [22:14] <Hixie> on the wg homepage iirc
- # [22:14] <foolip_> Hixie, http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/closed would be it
- # [22:15] <Hixie> ah ok
- # [22:15] <Hixie> there you go
- # [22:15] * foolip_ opens bug for dropping longdesc support in Opera
- # [22:16] <Hixie> so you can work out if any "serious" issues on that list have been put behind us, though i guess you'd have to check for some of them to make sure they went through the process (many of the early ones didn't) and whether the resolutions came from the process or not
- # [22:17] <foolip_> microdata is semi-serious, in that it made a big difference for the visibility of the feature
- # [22:17] <foolip_> anyway, enough pondering about ISSUEs :)
- # [22:18] <Hixie> the microdata issue was a complete non-issue imho, but ok :-)
- # [22:20] <foolip_> well, you don't think the feature should exist at all, so that's no surprise :)
- # [22:21] <Hixie> well, that too
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- # [22:22] <Hixie> but i just meant that it makes no difference to me how the w3c divvies up its specs
- # [22:22] <foolip_> huh, so even though we removed longdesc="", browsers have to keep reflecting it as longDesc ?
- # [22:23] <Hixie> we didn't remove longdesc
- # [22:23] <Hixie> despite what the a11y crowd would have you believe
- # [22:23] <Hixie> (nor did we kill any kittens or torture and blind people)
- # [22:23] <Hixie> we just made it non-conforming
- # [22:23] <Hixie> like <font>
- # [22:24] <foolip_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Aug/att-0112/issue-30-decision.html sure had me fooled
- # [22:24] <foolip_> "Therefore, the HTML Working Group hereby adopts the Change Proposal to not include the longdesc attribute in the language."
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- # [22:26] <foolip_> looking closer, no change proposal actually does that, but I guess it's http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Feb/0393.html that "won"
- # [22:26] <Hixie> my impression is that certain members in the a11y community think that by describing the position they don't agree with in extreme terms, they're more likely to get their way
- # [22:27] <foolip_> wouldn't it make sense to remove the reflection though, unless it's already widely implemented?
- # [22:27] <Hixie> (unfortunately all it does is make people believe that that extreme viewpoint is the truth, when they _don't_ get what they want)
- # [22:27] <Hixie> (which harms accessibility)
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- # [22:28] <Hixie> foolip_: .longDesc is uniformly implemented, no?
- # [22:28] <foolip_> Hixie, I was assuming it's not, but I'll check
- # [22:28] <foolip_> if it is, then it should stay
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- # [22:29] <Hixie> i was assuming it is. if it isn't, then i agree it should go.
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- # [22:57] <foolip_> Hixie, you're right, every browser I tested (Opera, Firefox, Chrome, IE) supports it
- # [22:57] <foolip_> a bit surprising given that Opera ever did anything with it UI-wise, as far as I know
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- # [23:12] <Hixie> opera only does soemthing ui-wise with it since a few months ago, because chaals wanted to show that a browser implemented it, iirc
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- # [23:14] <Yuhong> First it was Netscape 4 that was non-compliant, then it was IE6 that was non-compliant...
- # [23:14] <Yuhong> The funny thing is, guess when the standards that the browsers were non-compliant dates from?
- # [23:15] <Hixie> has any browser ever been fully compliant to any standard?
- # [23:15] <Yuhong> 1997-1998!
- # [23:16] <Yuhong> If you can't guess it, I am talking about CSS.
- # [23:17] <Yuhong> Particularly levels 1 and 2.
- # [23:17] <Hixie> the spec for level 2 still isn't done, last i checked
- # [23:17] <Yuhong> I am talking about 2.0, not 2.1.
- # [23:17] <Hixie> there's no 2.0
- # [23:17] <Hixie> there's just css2, and different revisions of it
- # [23:18] <Yuhong> http://www.w3.org/TR/1998/REC-CSS2-19980512/
- # [23:18] <Yuhong> http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS1-961217
- # [23:19] <Yuhong> In the meantime, there is the year long gap between drafts of CSS3.
- # [23:19] <Hixie> http://www.w3.org/TR/1998/WD-css2-19980128/ http://www.w3.org/TR/2002/WD-CSS21-20020802/
- # [23:20] <Hixie> those are the drafts on either side of the CSS2 draft you cited
- # [23:20] <Hixie> there's nothing special about the contents of the one you cited
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- # [23:20] <Hixie> it's just one step along the way of writing the level 2 spec
- # [23:22] <Yuhong> Yea, I know 2.1 isn't done.
- # [23:22] <Hixie> the ".1" just means "revision 1"
- # [23:22] <wilhelm> http://www.opera.com/docs/specs/presto27/css/properties/ ← Fully compliant? Not yet. (c:
- # [23:22] <Hixie> which is kind of a misnomer, since it's been dozens of public revisions and thousands of secret ones
- # [23:23] <Hixie> but that's just the way the w3c does things
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- # [23:37] <Yuhong> <wilhelm> http://www.opera.com/docs/specs/presto27/css/properties/ ← Fully compliant? Not yet.
- # [23:38] <Yuhong> And that is the ridicolous thing.
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- # [23:39] <gsnedders> Yuhong: Ultimately web developers want stuff in CSS3 and not the non-implemented stuff in CSS2 now, and it's ultimately a choice of development resources.
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- # [23:52] <inimino> Apparently browsers reload an iframe when it is moved in the DOM (maybe for security reasons?) but I don't see anything about that here: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/the-iframe-element.html#the-iframe-element
- # [23:52] <inimino> Is it somewhere else or just not specified?
- # [23:53] <inimino> (or am I just missing it?)
- # [23:55] * Quits: virtuelv (~virtuelv_@20.74.9.46.customer.cdi.no) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
- # Session Close: Mon Jan 24 00:00:00 2011
The end :)