/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2011-03-08 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Tue Mar 08 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:08] * Quits: Amorphous (jan@unaffiliated/amorphous) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  4. # [00:09] * Quits: alex_mamel (~koalayumy@pool-173-78-40-174.tampfl.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  5. # [00:17] * Quits: BlurstOfTimes (~blurstoft@168.203.117.36) (Remote host closed the connection)
  6. # [00:17] * Quits: bentruyman (~bentruyma@24-148-24-69.c3-0.prs-ubr2.chi-prs.il.cable.rcn.com) (Quit: bentruyman)
  7. # [00:18] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@2620:101:8003:200:221:6aff:fe6e:d10)
  8. # [00:23] * Joins: roc (~chatzilla@203-97-204-82.dsl.clear.net.nz)
  9. # [00:23] * Joins: Amorphous (jan@unaffiliated/amorphous)
  10. # [00:28] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.106.89) (Quit: nn)
  11. # [00:30] * Quits: jamesr (~jamesr@nat/google/x-dalepfzbuxwwsmtv) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  12. # [00:31] * Joins: nessy (~Adium@74.125.56.18)
  13. # [00:32] * Joins: myakura (~myakura@p1182-ipbf4006marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  14. # [00:33] * Quits: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) (Quit: Reading http://davidwalsh.name)
  15. # [00:34] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@114-25-213-250.dynamic.hinet.net) (Quit: kennyluck)
  16. # [00:35] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM114-48-157-190.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Quit: MikeSmith)
  17. # [00:38] * Quits: myakura (~myakura@p1182-ipbf4006marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Remote host closed the connection)
  18. # [00:47] * Joins: AlexNRoss (~AleossIRC@unaffiliated/aleoss)
  19. # [00:51] * Joins: jamesr (~jamesr@nat/google/x-tfomnxiadguonttj)
  20. # [00:53] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@2620:101:8003:200:221:6aff:fe6e:d10) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  21. # [00:53] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@2620:101:8003:200:221:6aff:fe6e:d10)
  22. # [00:54] * Quits: FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly) (Quit: swatted to death)
  23. # [00:55] * Joins: cooto (~Adium@pc-70-86-45-190.cm.vtr.net)
  24. # [00:56] * Quits: ZombieLoffe (~e@unaffiliated/zombieloffe)
  25. # [00:57] * Quits: matijsb (~Adium@5353CD69.cm-6-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Quit: Leaving.)
  26. # [00:59] * Quits: cooto (~Adium@pc-70-86-45-190.cm.vtr.net) (Client Quit)
  27. # [00:59] * Joins: wolfman2000 (~wolfman20@rrcs-70-63-208-211.midsouth.biz.rr.com)
  28. # [01:01] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@2620:101:8003:200:221:6aff:fe6e:d10) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.14/20110301090359])
  29. # [01:01] * Quits: Rik` (~Rik`@2a01:e35:139b:b390:daa2:5eff:fe97:85ed) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  30. # [01:01] * Joins: Rik` (~Rik`@2a01:e35:139b:b390:daa2:5eff:fe97:85ed)
  31. # [01:02] * Joins: ttepasse (~ttepasse@ip-109-90-161-169.unitymediagroup.de)
  32. # [01:03] * Joins: boaz_ (~boaz@c-24-128-79-120.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
  33. # [01:03] <Hixie> jgraham: anne's 6 month estimate is 6 times too long, but yeah, figuring out the original copyright notice took a month of me speaking to laywers
  34. # [01:04] <Hixie> jgraham: that's why i didn't make any effort at solving the patent problem
  35. # [01:05] * Joins: boogyman (~boogy@unaffiliated/boogyman)
  36. # [01:06] * Joins: jochen___ (~jochen@nat/google/x-vvwbtpihyuypneuj)
  37. # [01:06] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@2620:101:8003:200:222:68ff:fe15:af5c)
  38. # [01:09] * Quits: jochen__ (~jochen@nat/google/x-bydknwlsrmqtlqnp) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  39. # [01:11] * Joins: jochen__ (~jochen@nat/google/x-seolbinlwikdlkva)
  40. # [01:12] * Quits: jochen___ (~jochen@nat/google/x-vvwbtpihyuypneuj) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  41. # [01:16] <AryehGregor> I like the phrase "ipso facto" a lot, but I've discovered it doesn't really mean anything, so I never get a chance to use it. This makes me sad.
  42. # [01:17] * Joins: riven` (~riven@53518387.cm-6-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  43. # [01:18] <TabAtkins> Assign a meaning to it and use it consistently.
  44. # [01:18] <zewt> give ipso facto a de facto meaning :|
  45. # [01:19] <TabAtkins> But it does mean something. You can usually substitute "thus" for it, and so you can probably replace some of your "thus"es with "ipso facto".
  46. # [01:20] * Quits: riven (~riven@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  47. # [01:27] * Joins: stalled (~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled)
  48. # [01:29] * Joins: homata (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
  49. # [01:35] * Joins: agektmr (~Adium@2401:fa00:4:1012:fa1e:dfff:fee6:d74e)
  50. # [01:36] * Quits: agektmr (~Adium@2401:fa00:4:1012:fa1e:dfff:fee6:d74e) (Client Quit)
  51. # [01:38] * Joins: agektmr (~Adium@220.109.219.244)
  52. # [01:50] * Joins: ben_h (~ben@CPE-58-161-40-52.czqd1.win.bigpond.net.au)
  53. # [01:54] * Joins: wakaba_0 (~wakaba_@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
  54. # [01:56] * Quits: kal-EL_ (~jor-EL@host103-148-dynamic.211-62-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024726])
  55. # [02:04] * Quits: boaz_ (~boaz@c-24-128-79-120.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Quit: boaz_)
  56. # [02:07] * Quits: cgcardona (~cgcardona@c-24-5-146-71.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: zzzzz)
  57. # [02:08] * Quits: agektmr (~Adium@220.109.219.244) (Quit: Leaving.)
  58. # [02:10] * Parts: bfrohs (~bfrohs@smtp.forewordinternal.com)
  59. # [02:12] * Joins: agektmr (~Adium@2401:fa00:4:1012:fa1e:dfff:fee6:d74e)
  60. # [02:29] * Quits: Rik` (~Rik`@2a01:e35:139b:b390:daa2:5eff:fe97:85ed) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  61. # [02:30] * Joins: Rik` (~Rik`@pha75-2-81-57-187-57.fbx.proxad.net)
  62. # [02:39] * Quits: jamesr (~jamesr@nat/google/x-tfomnxiadguonttj) (Quit: jamesr)
  63. # [02:47] * Quits: nessy (~Adium@74.125.56.18) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  64. # [02:54] * Joins: nessy (~Adium@74.125.56.18)
  65. # [02:54] * Quits: ap (~ap@2620:0:1b00:1191:226:4aff:fe14:aad6) (Quit: ap)
  66. # [03:00] * Quits: nessy (~Adium@74.125.56.18) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  67. # [03:02] * Quits: ezoe (~ezoe@61-205-124-48f1.kyt1.eonet.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  68. # [03:07] * Joins: nessy (~Adium@74.125.56.18)
  69. # [03:22] * Quits: TabAtkins (~tabatkins@nat/mozilla/x-buraxfuunumqzwjp) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  70. # [03:23] * Joins: rubys (~rubys@cpe-098-027-048-117.nc.res.rr.com)
  71. # [03:24] * Joins: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113)
  72. # [03:31] * Joins: ezoe (~ezoe@203-140-89-69f1.kyt1.eonet.ne.jp)
  73. # [03:33] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@static-216-41-81-42.ngn.onecommunications.net)
  74. # [03:33] * Quits: kurrik (~kurrik@nat/google/x-ywczkhopohzwuybj) (Quit: Leaving)
  75. # [03:39] * Parts: rubys (~rubys@cpe-098-027-048-117.nc.res.rr.com)
  76. # [03:40] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@2620:101:8003:200:222:68ff:fe15:af5c) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.14/20110301090359])
  77. # [03:43] * Quits: dave_levin (~dave_levi@74.125.59.76) (Quit: dave_levin)
  78. # [03:55] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@static-216-41-81-42.ngn.onecommunications.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  79. # [03:59] * Joins: miketayl_r (~miketaylr@user-160vrg5.cable.mindspring.com)
  80. # [04:01] * miketayl_r is now known as miketaylr
  81. # [04:19] * Quits: boogyman (~boogy@unaffiliated/boogyman) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
  82. # [04:20] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM114-48-116-40.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  83. # [04:32] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@c-24-128-49-85.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
  84. # [05:00] * Parts: toyoshim_ (~toyoshim@y253149.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp)
  85. # [05:02] * Quits: Ankheg (~Ankheg@94.158.194.27) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  86. # [05:04] * Joins: Ankheg (~Ankheg@94.158.194.27)
  87. # [05:10] * Quits: [tm]_ (~MikeSmith@sideshowbarker.net) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  88. # [05:10] * Quits: inimino (~inimino@boshi.inimino.org) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  89. # [05:11] * Quits: Sosby (fsosby@70.32.34.100) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  90. # [05:12] <Hixie> ok whatwg.org and hixie.ch are now IPv6-enabled
  91. # [05:12] * Quits: jgraham (~jgraham@web22.webfaction.com) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  92. # [05:12] * Joins: jgraham (~jgraham@web22.webfaction.com)
  93. # [05:13] * Joins: Sosby (fsosby@s2.rdlbnc.com)
  94. # [05:13] * Joins: [tm] (~MikeSmith@sideshowbarker.net)
  95. # [05:25] * Quits: tndH (~Rob@cpc15-seac19-2-0-cust232.7-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.1/2008072406])
  96. # [05:27] * Joins: inimino (~inimino@boshi.inimino.org)
  97. # [05:36] * Quits: doublec (~chris@unaffiliated/doublec) (Quit: Leaving)
  98. # [05:43] * Joins: KaOSoFt (~maxzagato@unaffiliated/kaosoft)
  99. # [05:51] * Quits: sephr (~Eli@c-98-235-63-240.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving)
  100. # [05:52] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM114-48-116-40.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  101. # [05:57] * Joins: nonge_ (~nonge@p5B326BFB.dip.t-dialin.net)
  102. # [05:59] * Quits: roc (~chatzilla@203-97-204-82.dsl.clear.net.nz) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  103. # [06:01] * Quits: nonge__ (~nonge@p5082BEB1.dip.t-dialin.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  104. # [06:08] * Joins: bckenny (~bckenny@c-98-248-41-174.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  105. # [06:08] * Quits: homata (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  106. # [06:08] * Joins: 5EXACCPUY (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
  107. # [06:16] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@user-160vrg5.cable.mindspring.com) (Quit: miketaylr)
  108. # [06:26] * Joins: cgcardona (~cgcardona@184.235.131.34)
  109. # [06:36] * Quits: FastJack (~fastjack@dumpstr.net) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  110. # [06:40] * Joins: FastJack (~fastjack@dumpstr.net)
  111. # [06:41] * Quits: virtuelv (~virtuelv_@20.74.9.46.customer.cdi.no) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  112. # [06:49] * Quits: bckenny (~bckenny@c-98-248-41-174.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  113. # [06:52] * Quits: ttepasse (~ttepasse@ip-109-90-161-169.unitymediagroup.de) (Quit: Now time for the weather. Tiffany?)
  114. # [06:56] * Joins: hdhoang (~hdhoang@cmalu.zahe.me)
  115. # [06:57] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM114-48-116-40.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  116. # [07:06] * Quits: agektmr (~Adium@2401:fa00:4:1012:fa1e:dfff:fee6:d74e) (Quit: Leaving.)
  117. # [07:07] * Joins: agektmr (~Adium@2401:fa00:4:1012:fa1e:dfff:fee6:d74e)
  118. # [07:07] * Quits: sroussey (~sroussey@adsl-69-234-104-86.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  119. # [07:16] * Joins: matjas (~matjas@91.182.176.106)
  120. # [07:21] * Quits: matjas (~matjas@91.182.176.106) (Quit: zZz)
  121. # [07:26] * Joins: cgcardona_ (~cgcardona@c-24-5-146-71.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  122. # [07:28] * Quits: cgcardona (~cgcardona@184.235.131.34) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  123. # [07:28] * cgcardona_ is now known as cgcardona
  124. # [07:30] * Joins: FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly)
  125. # [07:34] * Joins: jochen___ (~jochen@nat/google/x-xluxfmeazvfwchjl)
  126. # [07:38] * Quits: jochen__ (~jochen@nat/google/x-seolbinlwikdlkva) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  127. # [07:38] * jochen___ is now known as jochen__
  128. # [07:40] * Quits: zum (~antti@xdsl-83-150-88-4.nebulazone.fi) (Remote host closed the connection)
  129. # [07:44] * Joins: Necrathex (~nectop@dhcp-077-249-098-024.chello.nl)
  130. # [07:44] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@5355737B.cm-6-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  131. # [07:45] <annevk> sure felt like six months :p
  132. # [07:45] <Hixie> can't argue with that :-)
  133. # [07:48] * Joins: maikmerten (~merten@ls5dhcp197.cs.uni-dortmund.de)
  134. # [08:01] * Joins: aho (~nya@fuld-590c61f9.pool.mediaWays.net)
  135. # [08:03] * Quits: agektmr (~Adium@2401:fa00:4:1012:fa1e:dfff:fee6:d74e) (Quit: Leaving.)
  136. # [08:08] * Joins: agektmr (~Adium@2401:fa00:4:1012:fa1e:dfff:fee6:d74e)
  137. # [08:08] * Joins: homata___ (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
  138. # [08:08] * Joins: TabAtkins (~tabatkins@76-253-3-102.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
  139. # [08:11] * Quits: ezoe (~ezoe@203-140-89-69f1.kyt1.eonet.ne.jp) (Quit: And Now for Something Completely Different.)
  140. # [08:12] * Quits: 5EXACCPUY (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  141. # [08:12] <annevk> AryehGregor, are your specs in some bitbucket or other repository somewhere?
  142. # [08:16] * Quits: cgcardona (~cgcardona@c-24-5-146-71.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: zzzzz)
  143. # [08:16] <Hixie> is order of enumeration of JS objects defined at all?
  144. # [08:17] * Quits: nessy (~Adium@74.125.56.18) (Quit: Leaving.)
  145. # [08:17] <Hixie> it seems to be order of creation but deleting then resetting a property doesn't seem to move it to the end
  146. # [08:18] <annevk> it's defined to be unordered but implementations have to do at least creation order to not break web pages
  147. # [08:19] <Hixie> is there a way to move a property to the end of the order?
  148. # [08:19] <Hixie> short of creating a whole new object...
  149. # [08:19] <annevk> http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Web_ECMAScript#Property_Enumeration
  150. # [08:19] <annevk> no idea :/
  151. # [08:20] <Hixie> oh well
  152. # [08:20] <Hixie> thanks anyway
  153. # [08:20] * Hixie updates that wiki page with what he's found about "delete"
  154. # [08:30] * Quits: kor (~kor@a83-161-211-173.adsl.xs4all.nl) (Quit: kor)
  155. # [08:36] <annevk> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hodges-websec-framework-reqs
  156. # [08:36] * Quits: wolfman2000 (~wolfman20@rrcs-70-63-208-211.midsouth.biz.rr.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  157. # [08:39] * Joins: matjas (~matjas@79.232-136-217.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be)
  158. # [08:40] <annevk> the introduction especially is an interesting read
  159. # [08:41] <Hixie> i have a page which consists primarily of a two-cell css table fixed positioned to the viewport, where the right cell is shrink-to-fit and the left cell fills the rest of the available space
  160. # [08:41] <annevk> security seems to be getting impossibly hard
  161. # [08:41] * Quits: Ankheg (~Ankheg@94.158.194.27) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  162. # [08:41] <Hixie> i'd like the left cell to be overflow:auto in case its contents are too big to fit the available space in the viewport
  163. # [08:41] <Hixie> is there a way to do that?
  164. # [08:41] <Hixie> everything i've thought of has the table cell grow to fit the contents
  165. # [08:42] <Hixie> which defeats the point (it means the whole viewport scrolls and i lose the right cell)
  166. # [08:42] * Joins: Martijnc (~Martijnc@91.176.79.35)
  167. # [08:42] <annevk> table-layout:fixed was sort of designed for it I think but never really implemented well?
  168. # [08:42] <annevk> I'm not really sure
  169. # [08:42] <Hixie> table-layout:fixed requires that i know the right cell's width ahead of time, i think
  170. # [08:42] * Quits: Necrathex (~nectop@dhcp-077-249-098-024.chello.nl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  171. # [08:42] <Hixie> i hope TabAtkins' drafts solve this
  172. # [08:43] * Joins: Necrathex (~nectop@dhcp-077-249-098-024.chello.nl)
  173. # [08:43] <annevk> there's a new value for width that means shrink-to-fit
  174. # [08:43] <annevk> not sure if that works
  175. # [08:43] <annevk> well it does in Mozilla, but in combination with table-layout:fixed...
  176. # [08:43] * Joins: Ankheg (~Ankheg@94.158.194.27)
  177. # [08:44] <hsivonen> I'm losing track of goings on at the IETF. What's the story behind there being an informational Internet-Draft and a standards track ID about Do Not Track by different authors?
  178. # [08:44] <annevk> it's a bit sad that to date nobody has figured out table layouts
  179. # [08:44] <annevk> and written it down
  180. # [08:44] * Quits: TabAtkins (~tabatkins@76-253-3-102.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  181. # [08:44] <annevk> hsivonen, didn't follow that one
  182. # [08:46] <Hixie> annevk: the problem is my shrink-to-fit cell comes on the same row as my as-big-as-possible cell
  183. # [08:46] <Hixie> annevk: so i don't think table-layout:fixed can solve it
  184. # [08:46] <Hixie> even if implemented per spec
  185. # [08:46] <annevk> karlcow, would be nice if there was a dedicated category for http://www.w3.org/QA/2011/03/open-web-weekly-summary.html
  186. # [08:48] * Joins: Maurice (~ano@77.222.73.150)
  187. # [08:49] * Quits: Ankheg (~Ankheg@94.158.194.27) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  188. # [08:50] * Joins: pesla (~pesla@188.202.125.121)
  189. # [08:51] * Joins: Ankheg (~Ankheg@94.158.194.27)
  190. # [08:53] <hsivonen> karlcow: nice to see that they let you link to lists.whatwg.org from the W3C blog
  191. # [08:53] <annevk> I think that may be a first
  192. # [08:55] <annevk> karlcow, also, it needs a more compelling title
  193. # [08:55] <annevk> karlcow, extremely long name followed by two digitized dates just confirms the W3C is boring
  194. # [08:56] <annevk> so we still haven't announced developers.whatwg.org on the blog
  195. # [08:56] <annevk> I tried getting hold of ben to do it, but that seems difficult :)
  196. # [08:57] <annevk> anyone minds if I go ahead and write a short note?
  197. # [08:57] * Joins: foolip (~philip@83.218.67.122)
  198. # [08:59] <annevk> (no response in an hour means I'll go ahead)
  199. # [09:00] * Quits: Rik` (~Rik`@pha75-2-81-57-187-57.fbx.proxad.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  200. # [09:02] <karlcow> for title, I adopted the same model than http://my.opera.com/karlcow/blog/index.dml/tag/web%20standards%20links :) It was my decision. I accept my boringness
  201. # [09:02] * Joins: homat____ (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
  202. # [09:03] <karlcow> for category, yes good suggestion. I will put that on the todo list.
  203. # [09:04] * Joins: jochen___ (~jochen@nat/google/x-qcvfkgzflvbxivja)
  204. # [09:05] * Quits: homata___ (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  205. # [09:08] * Quits: jochen__ (~jochen@nat/google/x-xluxfmeazvfwchjl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  206. # [09:08] * jochen___ is now known as jochen__
  207. # [09:16] * Joins: zum (~antti@xdsl-83-150-88-4.nebulazone.fi)
  208. # [09:17] * Joins: thiessenp (~thiessenp@changeme.ebuddy.com)
  209. # [09:17] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM114-48-116-40.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  210. # [09:18] * Quits: thiessenp (~thiessenp@changeme.ebuddy.com) (Client Quit)
  211. # [09:20] <annevk> I need a todo list
  212. # [09:21] * Joins: tndH (~Rob@cpc15-seac19-2-0-cust232.7-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
  213. # [09:22] * Joins: Rik` (~Rik`@pha75-2-81-57-187-57.fbx.proxad.net)
  214. # [09:24] <karlcow> nah you do not need, you are younger than me.
  215. # [09:25] <annevk> Maybe, but I'm so unprepared for the next three months... And behind on silly things like administration.
  216. # [09:25] * Quits: agektmr (~Adium@2401:fa00:4:1012:fa1e:dfff:fee6:d74e) (Quit: Leaving.)
  217. # [09:26] * Joins: kal-EL_ (~jor-EL@host221-66-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
  218. # [09:26] <annevk> Immediate future (i.e. until this weekend) is pretty much sorted though :)
  219. # [09:29] * Joins: ZombieLoffe (~e@unaffiliated/zombieloffe)
  220. # [09:29] <karlcow> I'm looking forward the reports of your trips when you are back. Pretty exciting.
  221. # [09:36] * Joins: mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@wlan-nat.fwgal01.deri.ie)
  222. # [09:38] * Joins: mhausenblas_ (~mhausenbl@wg1-nat.fwgal01.deri.ie)
  223. # [09:39] * Quits: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113) (Quit: Never look down on someone unless you're helping them up.)
  224. # [09:39] * Joins: agektmr (~Adium@2401:fa00:4:1012:fa1e:dfff:fee6:d74e)
  225. # [09:39] * Joins: workmad3 (~workmad3@cpc3-bagu10-0-0-cust651.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com)
  226. # [09:42] * Joins: mariolone (~mariolone@151.22.69.61)
  227. # [09:42] * Parts: mariolone (~mariolone@151.22.69.61)
  228. # [09:42] * Quits: mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@wlan-nat.fwgal01.deri.ie) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  229. # [09:42] * mhausenblas_ is now known as mhausenblas
  230. # [09:42] * Joins: homata (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
  231. # [09:43] * Joins: msucan (~robod@109.96.194.42)
  232. # [09:44] * Quits: homat____ (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  233. # [09:46] * Joins: roc (~chatzilla@121.98.230.221)
  234. # [09:52] * Joins: kataire` (~kataire@cable-78-35-115-245.netcologne.de)
  235. # [09:55] * Quits: kataire (~kataire@cable-78-35-115-245.netcologne.de) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  236. # [09:56] * Quits: mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@wg1-nat.fwgal01.deri.ie) (Quit: brb)
  237. # [09:57] * Quits: KaOSoFt (~maxzagato@unaffiliated/kaosoft)
  238. # [09:57] * Joins: nessy (~Adium@124-169-147-115.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  239. # [09:58] * Quits: nessy (~Adium@124-169-147-115.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Client Quit)
  240. # [10:00] * Quits: workmad3 (~workmad3@cpc3-bagu10-0-0-cust651.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  241. # [10:01] * Joins: tbassetto (~tbassetto@pro75-4-82-238-200-10.fbx.proxad.net)
  242. # [10:05] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt)
  243. # [10:05] * Joins: pesla_ (~pesla@188.202.125.121)
  244. # [10:07] * Quits: pesla (~pesla@188.202.125.121) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  245. # [10:17] <abarth> annevk: i've failed at every todo list system i've tried
  246. # [10:20] * Joins: jeremyselier (~Jeremy@pro75-4-82-238-200-10.fbx.proxad.net)
  247. # [10:23] * Joins: ezoe (~ezoe@203-140-89-130f1.kyt1.eonet.ne.jp)
  248. # [10:24] <annevk> :)
  249. # [10:24] <annevk> me too
  250. # [10:24] <annevk> my current approach is memory, sometimes notes in TextWrangler since I'm using that a lot, and notes in my calendar
  251. # [10:25] <annevk> and putting objects like letters in obvious places :)
  252. # [10:27] * Quits: abarth (~abarth@173-164-128-209-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Quit: abarth)
  253. # [10:30] * Joins: richt (~richt@pat-tdc.opera.com)
  254. # [10:33] * Joins: mpt_ (~mpt@canonical/mpt)
  255. # [10:38] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachlan@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no)
  256. # [10:43] * Joins: virtuelv (~virtuelv_@pat-tdc.opera.com)
  257. # [10:49] <karlcow> http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/wallaby/
  258. # [10:49] <karlcow> "Convert Adobe Flash FLA files into HTML and reach more devices"
  259. # [10:50] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.118.178)
  260. # [10:53] * Joins: matijsb (~matijsb@188.205.108.18)
  261. # [10:55] * Joins: connrs (~paul@host81-152-90-158.range81-152.btcentralplus.com)
  262. # [10:55] * Quits: lhnz (~lhnz@188-223-83-48.zone14.bethere.co.uk) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  263. # [10:56] * Joins: lhnz (~lhnz@188-223-83-48.zone14.bethere.co.uk)
  264. # [10:57] * Quits: Rik` (~Rik`@pha75-2-81-57-187-57.fbx.proxad.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  265. # [10:58] * Joins: mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@wg1-nat.fwgal01.deri.ie)
  266. # [10:59] * Joins: Rik` (~Rik`@2a01:e35:139b:b390:daa2:5eff:fe97:85ed)
  267. # [11:03] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM114-48-123-178.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  268. # [11:05] * Joins: pesla (~pesla@188.202.125.121)
  269. # [11:06] * Quits: pesla_ (~pesla@188.202.125.121) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  270. # [11:12] * riven` is now known as riven
  271. # [11:12] * Quits: riven (~riven@53518387.cm-6-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Changing host)
  272. # [11:12] * Joins: riven (~riven@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven)
  273. # [11:13] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachlan@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no) (Quit: Leaving)
  274. # [11:22] * Joins: workmad3 (~workmad3@cspool123.cs.man.ac.uk)
  275. # [11:24] * Joins: micheil (~micheil@69.198.183.141)
  276. # [11:24] * Quits: micheil (~micheil@69.198.183.141) (Client Quit)
  277. # [11:30] * Joins: charlvn (~charlvn@41.0.48.93)
  278. # [11:34] * Quits: pesla (~pesla@188.202.125.121) (Remote host closed the connection)
  279. # [11:35] * Joins: pesla (~pesla@188.202.125.121)
  280. # [11:36] <annevk> i have a very short blog post now
  281. # [11:36] <annevk> anyone wants to review before it goes live?
  282. # [11:37] * Quits: FastJack (~fastjack@dumpstr.net) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  283. # [11:39] <annevk> http://blog.whatwg.org/html5-for-web-developers
  284. # [11:39] * Quits: ben_h (~ben@CPE-58-161-40-52.czqd1.win.bigpond.net.au) (Quit: ben_h)
  285. # [11:40] * Joins: ben_h (~ben@CPE-58-161-40-52.czqd1.win.bigpond.net.au)
  286. # [11:41] <aho> looks fine
  287. # [11:42] * Joins: FastJack (~fastjack@dumpstr.net)
  288. # [11:45] * Joins: nessy (~Adium@124-169-147-115.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  289. # [11:47] * Quits: ben_h (~ben@CPE-58-161-40-52.czqd1.win.bigpond.net.au) (Quit: ben_h)
  290. # [11:47] * hasather_ is now known as hasather
  291. # [11:48] * Quits: mpt_ (~mpt@canonical/mpt) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  292. # [11:51] * Joins: homata___ (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
  293. # [11:53] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM114-48-123-178.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  294. # [11:53] * Quits: Rik` (~Rik`@2a01:e35:139b:b390:daa2:5eff:fe97:85ed) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  295. # [11:54] * Quits: ZombieLoffe (~e@unaffiliated/zombieloffe)
  296. # [11:55] * Quits: homata (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  297. # [11:57] <annevk> per twitter it seems quite a few people hadn't seen it yet
  298. # [12:01] * Quits: Necrathex (~nectop@dhcp-077-249-098-024.chello.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  299. # [12:04] * Quits: agektmr (~Adium@2401:fa00:4:1012:fa1e:dfff:fee6:d74e) (Quit: Leaving.)
  300. # [12:05] * Joins: deane (~dean@202-180-70-44.callplus.net.nz)
  301. # [12:07] * Quits: nessy (~Adium@124-169-147-115.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Quit: Leaving.)
  302. # [12:16] * Quits: Martijnc (~Martijnc@91.176.79.35) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  303. # [12:19] * Joins: Rik` (~Rik`@mozilla-paris-253-99.cnt.nerim.net)
  304. # [12:24] * Joins: david_carlisle (~davidc@86.188.197.189)
  305. # [12:25] * Joins: Martijnc (~Martijnc@91.176.100.249)
  306. # [12:25] * Quits: seventh (seventh@138.199.65.103) (Quit: ...)
  307. # [12:30] * Joins: Necrathex (~nectop@82-170-160-25.ip.telfort.nl)
  308. # [12:32] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@58x157x21x205.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
  309. # [12:37] <annevk> oh wow, our type=color implementation makes use of <datalist>?
  310. # [12:37] <annevk> I did not know
  311. # [12:37] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@pat.se.opera.com)
  312. # [12:44] * Quits: jochen__ (~jochen@nat/google/x-qcvfkgzflvbxivja) (Remote host closed the connection)
  313. # [12:54] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@pat.se.opera.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  314. # [12:55] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@pat.se.opera.com)
  315. # [13:03] <annevk> hmm, updating event-source tests has to wait a little
  316. # [13:04] <annevk> EventSource, even
  317. # [13:05] <karlcow> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12668552
  318. # [13:05] <karlcow> From 25 May, European laws dictate that "explicit consent" must be gathered from web users who are being tracked via text files called "cookies".
  319. # [13:05] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachlan@pat-tdc.opera.com)
  320. # [13:07] * Joins: lumely (~lumely@dhcp2-186.slis.tsukuba.ac.jp)
  321. # [13:08] * Quits: lumely_ (~lumely@dhcp2-186.slis.tsukuba.ac.jp) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  322. # [13:11] * Quits: wakaba_0 (~wakaba_@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Quit: Leaving...)
  323. # [13:19] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachlan@pat-tdc.opera.com) (Quit: Leaving)
  324. # [13:22] * Joins: roc_ (~chatzilla@121.98.230.221)
  325. # [13:23] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachlan@guest.opera.com)
  326. # [13:25] * Quits: roc (~chatzilla@121.98.230.221) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  327. # [13:25] * roc_ is now known as roc
  328. # [13:37] * Quits: Ankheg (~Ankheg@94.158.194.27) (*.net *.split)
  329. # [13:37] * Quits: nonge_ (~nonge@p5B326BFB.dip.t-dialin.net) (*.net *.split)
  330. # [13:37] * Quits: Workshiva (~Dashiva@74.125.57.36) (*.net *.split)
  331. # [13:37] * Quits: heycam (~cam@wok.mcc.id.au) (*.net *.split)
  332. # [13:38] * Quits: ezoe (~ezoe@203-140-89-130f1.kyt1.eonet.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  333. # [13:42] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181139127.pp.htv.fi)
  334. # [13:43] * Joins: Ankheg (~Ankheg@94.158.194.27)
  335. # [13:43] * Joins: nonge_ (~nonge@p5B326BFB.dip.t-dialin.net)
  336. # [13:43] * Joins: Workshiva (~Dashiva@74.125.57.36)
  337. # [13:43] * Joins: heycam (~cam@wok.mcc.id.au)
  338. # [13:47] * Quits: davve__ (~davve@83.218.67.122) (Remote host closed the connection)
  339. # [13:51] <zewt> always nice when politicians stick their heads into stuff without even trying to understand it
  340. # [14:07] * Joins: davve__ (~davve@83.218.67.122)
  341. # [14:12] * Quits: kataire` (~kataire@cable-78-35-115-245.netcologne.de) (Quit: Leaving)
  342. # [14:12] <aho> "Currently, most browsers support low-complexity AAC and MP3 audio [...]" <- yea right, apple :v
  343. # [14:13] <Lachy> aho, where's that quote from?
  344. # [14:13] <aho> http://developer.apple.com/library/safari/documentation/AudioVideo/Conceptual/Using_HTML5_Audio_Video/AudioandVideoTagBasics/AudioandVideoTagBasics.html
  345. # [14:14] <zcorpan> does chrome support AAC?
  346. # [14:15] <Lachy> if they're counting Safari, current versions of Chrome and IE9, then perhaps 3 out of 5 is technically "most"
  347. # [14:15] <zcorpan> or was it thrown out together with h.264?
  348. # [14:15] <jgraham> Lachy: Weird calculus you have there
  349. # [14:15] <Lachy> it's supported in MP4 along with h.264, and support should disappear when they remove it
  350. # [14:16] <Lachy> jgraham, I'm not doing calculus.
  351. # [14:16] <zcorpan> didn't they remove it already?
  352. # [14:16] <aho> Safari on the desktop (Mac OS X and Windows) supports all media supported by the installed version of QuickTime <- this includes he-aac, right?
  353. # [14:16] <jgraham> Lachy: You have a system for calculating
  354. # [14:16] <Lachy> I thought they were planning to do it in 5 months
  355. # [14:16] <zcorpan> oh
  356. # [14:16] <aho> afaict i need ogg/vorbis and (he?)-aac for ie9 and safari
  357. # [14:18] <aho> and i gotta use the mp4 container for that, right?
  358. # [14:19] <aho> 3gp should theoretically work, too
  359. # [14:19] <aho> *scratches head*
  360. # [14:19] * zcorpan thought 3gp was the same thing as mp4
  361. # [14:19] <jgraham> Lachy: (fwiw see meaning 2 under http://oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_gb0116730#m_en_gb0116730 )
  362. # [14:19] <aho> 3GP (3GPP file format) is a multimedia container format defined by the Third Generation Partnership Project (3GPP) for 3G UMTS multimedia services.
  363. # [14:20] <aho> MPEG-4 Part 14 or MP4 file format, formally ISO/IEC 14496-14:2003, is a multimedia container format standard specified as a part of MPEG-4.
  364. # [14:20] <aho> oh and there is mov, too
  365. # [14:20] <Lachy> jgraham, ok. I just assumed you meant meaning 1, since that's the only usage I've heard before
  366. # [14:20] <aho> iirc flash supported these 3, but i don't have a clue about safari or ie9
  367. # [14:21] <jgraham> Lachy: Think also "lambda calculus"
  368. # [14:21] <Lachy> jgraham, I have no idea what "lambda calculus" means
  369. # [14:21] <aho> guess mp4 is the safest bet
  370. # [14:21] <jgraham> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda_calculus
  371. # [14:23] <Lachy> zcorpan, "These changes will occur in the next couple months but we are announcing them now to give content publishers and developers using HTML <video> an opportunity to make any necessary changes to their sites."
  372. # [14:23] <Lachy> http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html
  373. # [14:23] <Lachy> so they don't say exactly when they will remove it
  374. # [14:24] <zcorpan> k
  375. # [14:27] <aho> http://html5doctor.com/native-audio-in-the-browser/ <- omits aac... meh :l
  376. # [14:29] * Quits: gormer (~ghe@132.150.124.56) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  377. # [14:29] * Joins: gormer (~ghe@132.150.124.56)
  378. # [14:29] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachlan@guest.opera.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  379. # [14:30] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachlan@guest.opera.com)
  380. # [14:34] * Quits: webr3 (~nathan@host86-142-128-44.range86-142.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  381. # [14:39] * Quits: tndH (~Rob@cpc15-seac19-2-0-cust232.7-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.1/2008072406])
  382. # [14:39] * Joins: webr3 (~nathan@host81-152-134-36.range81-152.btcentralplus.com)
  383. # [14:39] * Quits: charlvn (~charlvn@41.0.48.93) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  384. # [14:41] * Joins: Stikki (~lordstich@dsl-pribrasgw1-ff17c300-80.dhcp.inet.fi)
  385. # [14:42] * Joins: charlvn (~charlvn@41.0.48.93)
  386. # [14:43] <hsivonen> I guess different people have different idea of what counts as "removal". removal in nightly, dev, beta or stable
  387. # [14:47] <zcorpan> hsivonen: is it removed in some of them?
  388. # [14:48] <hsivonen> zcorpan: I think I read somewhere it's now removed in nightly and dev. I didn't verify.
  389. # [14:49] * Quits: Ankheg (~Ankheg@94.158.194.27) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  390. # [14:50] * Quits: charlvn (~charlvn@41.0.48.93) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  391. # [14:50] <zcorpan> canPlayType in dev chrome gives me '' for canPlayType('video/mpeg') but 'maybe' for audio/mpeg
  392. # [14:50] <hsivonen> what about video/mp4?
  393. # [14:51] <zcorpan> oh right, audio/mpeg is mp3
  394. # [14:51] <zcorpan> 'maybe' for audio/mp4 and video/mp4
  395. # [14:52] <hsivonen> does it actually play an H.264 test file?
  396. # [14:57] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@206.217.92.186)
  397. # [15:00] * Joins: toyoshim_ (~toyoshim@y253149.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp)
  398. # [15:00] * Quits: richt (~richt@pat-tdc.opera.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  399. # [15:00] * Joins: richt (~richt@pat-tdc.opera.com)
  400. # [15:08] * Joins: charlvn (~charlvn@41.0.48.93)
  401. # [15:14] * Joins: BlurstOfTimes (~blurstoft@168.203.117.36)
  402. # [15:15] * Quits: virtuelv (~virtuelv_@pat-tdc.opera.com) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  403. # [15:20] <zcorpan> hsivonen: yes
  404. # [15:21] <hsivonen> zcorpan: ok. I guess my source or my recollection was wrong then.
  405. # [15:32] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  406. # [15:35] <hsivonen> Hmm. no mention of the DoJ/MPEG-LA story on Daring Fireball
  407. # [15:39] <karlcow> annevk: category done. http://www.w3.org/QA/archive/open_web/
  408. # [15:41] * Joins: cgcardona (~cgcardona@c-24-5-146-71.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  409. # [15:42] * Joins: KaOSoFt (~maxzagato@190.254.34.135)
  410. # [15:43] * Quits: KaOSoFt (~maxzagato@190.254.34.135) (Changing host)
  411. # [15:43] * Joins: KaOSoFt (~maxzagato@unaffiliated/kaosoft)
  412. # [15:43] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: I notice that investigation seems to be limited to just the anti-competitive positioning against VP8
  413. # [15:45] <MikeSmith> and not the broader issue of whether the H.264 patent pool itself was accumulated in good faith according to this initial assertions they made about its purpose and scope
  414. # [15:45] <MikeSmith> remember there was an analysis that somebody did about that last year
  415. # [15:46] <MikeSmith> something like, their initial claim is that it would be limited to just a couple dozen patents -- less that 50 or whatever
  416. # [15:46] * Parts: deane (~dean@202-180-70-44.callplus.net.nz)
  417. # [15:46] <MikeSmith> but despite that it ballooned into what it is now
  418. # [15:46] <MikeSmith> 500+ patents or whatever
  419. # [15:49] <MikeSmith> hmm, more like 800, I guess
  420. # [15:49] <MikeSmith> the Nero lawsuit
  421. # [15:50] <MikeSmith> filed last May
  422. # [15:50] <MikeSmith> and don't remember hearing much about it since
  423. # [15:50] <zewt> i think the world needs more patent abuse at levels beyond absurdity
  424. # [15:50] <zewt> nothing less will get anything changed, heh
  425. # [16:00] * Quits: lhnz (~lhnz@188-223-83-48.zone14.bethere.co.uk) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  426. # [16:00] * Joins: lhnz (~lhnz@188-223-83-48.zone14.bethere.co.uk)
  427. # [16:03] * Quits: charlvn (~charlvn@41.0.48.93) (Quit: Leaving)
  428. # [16:03] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt)
  429. # [16:05] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181139127.pp.htv.fi) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  430. # [16:08] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachlan@guest.opera.com) (Quit: Leaving)
  431. # [16:09] * Joins: ZombieLoffe (~e@unaffiliated/zombieloffe)
  432. # [16:10] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@89.204.137.79) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  433. # [16:14] * Joins: wakaba (~wakaba@8.22.102.121.dy.bbexcite.jp)
  434. # [16:14] * Quits: cgcardona (~cgcardona@c-24-5-146-71.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: zzzzz)
  435. # [16:16] * Quits: wakaba_ (~wakaba@207.22.102.121.dy.bbexcite.jp) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  436. # [16:16] * Joins: erlehmann (~erlehmann@82.113.99.44)
  437. # [16:19] * Joins: xtoph (~xtoph@213.47.185.206)
  438. # [16:20] * Joins: myakura (~myakura@p1182-ipbf4006marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  439. # [16:21] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachlan@guest.opera.com)
  440. # [16:23] * Joins: kennyluck (~kennyluck@114-25-240-26.dynamic.hinet.net)
  441. # [16:28] * Quits: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  442. # [16:30] * Quits: matijsb (~matijsb@188.205.108.18) (Quit: Leaving.)
  443. # [16:33] * Joins: Bass10 (~Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
  444. # [16:34] * Quits: Bass10 (~Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  445. # [16:35] * Joins: Bass10 (~Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
  446. # [16:37] * Quits: Bass10 (~Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  447. # [16:38] * Quits: hdhoang (~hdhoang@cmalu.zahe.me) (Quit: Leaving.)
  448. # [16:38] * Quits: david_carlisle (~davidc@86.188.197.189) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  449. # [16:41] <erlehmann> zewt, more abuse does not necessary yield revolution.
  450. # [16:42] <zewt> not sufficient, but possibly necessary
  451. # [16:43] * Quits: FastJack (~fastjack@dumpstr.net) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  452. # [16:44] <erlehmann> ?
  453. # [16:46] <zewt> more abuse is not sufficient to trigger reform, but it does seem necessary for it to ever happen. not that I hold out much hope in any case
  454. # [16:46] <erlehmann> do we need more hashbangs to abolish them entirely?
  455. # [16:47] <zewt> i don't think there's much or any parallel :)
  456. # [16:48] * Joins: FastJack (~fastjack@dumpstr.net)
  457. # [16:48] <zewt> (and they'll never be abolished until the history API is universally available--so the ball's still in UAs' court on that one)
  458. # [16:51] <zcorpan> video implementors, see http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12267
  459. # [16:52] * Quits: matjas (~matjas@79.232-136-217.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be) (Quit: zZz)
  460. # [16:55] * Joins: cgcardona (~cgcardona@68-29-146-0.pools.spcsdns.net)
  461. # [16:55] * Quits: cgcardona (~cgcardona@68-29-146-0.pools.spcsdns.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  462. # [16:56] <jgraham> zcorpan: You don't derive humor from race conditions?
  463. # [16:57] * Joins: Ankheg (~Ankheg@94.158.194.27)
  464. # [16:57] * Joins: virtuelv (~virtuelv_@20.74.9.46.customer.cdi.no)
  465. # [16:59] <Philip`> What if it's a three-legged race condition?
  466. # [17:01] * Joins: Bass10 (~Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
  467. # [17:02] <jgraham> Today a pancake race condition would be more apropos
  468. # [17:03] <jgraham> (for i18n purposes I am required to link to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrove_Tuesday#Festivities at this point)
  469. # [17:03] * Quits: maikmerten (~merten@ls5dhcp197.cs.uni-dortmund.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
  470. # [17:03] * Quits: Bass10 (~Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Max SendQ exceeded)
  471. # [17:04] * Quits: richt (~richt@pat-tdc.opera.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  472. # [17:04] <zcorpan> i thought today was fettisdagen
  473. # [17:04] <zcorpan> so semla race condition
  474. # [17:04] * Joins: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)
  475. # [17:05] <jgraham> Is that where someone offers you semla and you run away screaming?
  476. # [17:06] <zcorpan> it's where you line up 20 semlor and the first one to eat them all wins
  477. # [17:06] <zcorpan> (i.e. 20 semlor per contentant)
  478. # [17:06] <jgraham> I fear you might not be joking
  479. # [17:06] <zcorpan> i just made it up
  480. # [17:07] <zcorpan> but i'd love to watch such a race
  481. # [17:07] <jgraham> Still it sounds plausible
  482. # [17:07] <jgraham> I bet you could convince people it is a tradition
  483. # [17:08] * Quits: Maurice (~ano@77.222.73.150) (Quit: Disconnected...)
  484. # [17:08] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@pat.se.opera.com) (Quit: zcorpan)
  485. # [17:10] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachlan@guest.opera.com) (Quit: Leaving)
  486. # [17:12] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@82.113.99.44) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  487. # [17:17] * Joins: tndH (~Rob@cpc11-seac19-2-0-cust116.7-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
  488. # [17:22] * Joins: seventh (~seventh@64.9.173.187)
  489. # [17:26] * Quits: Martijnc (~Martijnc@91.176.100.249) (Quit: Martijnc)
  490. # [17:28] * Joins: Martijnc (~Martijnc@91.176.100.249)
  491. # [17:29] * Quits: Martijnc (~Martijnc@91.176.100.249) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  492. # [17:29] * Joins: Martijnc (~Martijnc@91.176.100.249)
  493. # [17:35] * Quits: roc (~chatzilla@121.98.230.221) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  494. # [17:36] * Quits: kinetik_ (~kinetik@121.98.132.55) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  495. # [17:41] * Joins: roc (~chatzilla@121.98.230.221)
  496. # [17:42] * Joins: kinetik (~kinetik@121.98.132.55)
  497. # [17:42] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181139127.pp.htv.fi)
  498. # [17:43] * Quits: Necrathex (~nectop@82-170-160-25.ip.telfort.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  499. # [17:44] * Joins: twisted_ (~twisted@205.189.73.45)
  500. # [17:46] <virtuelv> cute little replaceState() hack: http://grack.com/blog/2011/03/07/abusing-the-html5-history-api-for-fun-and-chaos/
  501. # [17:54] * jgraham notes that abarth has committed to the html5lib repo 5 times with 5 different email addresses
  502. # [17:54] * Joins: bentruyman (~bentruyma@li159-104.members.linode.com)
  503. # [17:56] * Joins: sroussey (~sroussey@adsl-69-234-104-86.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net)
  504. # [17:58] * Joins: eric_carlson (~eric_carl@2620:0:1b00:1191:217:f2ff:fe03:a2e)
  505. # [18:02] * Quits: myakura (~myakura@p1182-ipbf4006marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Remote host closed the connection)
  506. # [18:02] * Joins: cgcardona (~cgcardona@adsl-99-154-225-102.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
  507. # [18:07] * Joins: matjas (~matjas@91.182.176.106)
  508. # [18:09] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@nat/mozilla/x-gknkbjnbtrvozhaw)
  509. # [18:12] * Joins: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  510. # [18:14] * Joins: matijsb (~Adium@5353CD69.cm-6-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  511. # [18:14] * Quits: JoePeck (~JoePeck@17.244.14.92) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  512. # [18:14] * Joins: JoePeck (~JoePeck@2620:0:1b00:1f08:fa1e:dfff:fed9:b9a)
  513. # [18:17] <annevk> lesson learned: even when WHATWG news seems spread all over, still post it to the blog
  514. # [18:24] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
  515. # [18:26] * Joins: TabAtkins (~tabatkins@nat/mozilla/x-yojlqvvhlrnngvlm)
  516. # [18:28] * Quits: jeremyselier (~Jeremy@pro75-4-82-238-200-10.fbx.proxad.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  517. # [18:29] * Quits: tbassetto (~tbassetto@pro75-4-82-238-200-10.fbx.proxad.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  518. # [18:30] * Joins: MrOpposite (~mropposit@unaffiliated/mropposite)
  519. # [18:32] * Joins: kor (~kor@ip146-53-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl)
  520. # [18:34] * Quits: pesla (~pesla@188.202.125.121) (Remote host closed the connection)
  521. # [18:34] * Joins: tbassetto (~tbassetto@pro75-4-82-238-200-10.fbx.proxad.net)
  522. # [18:35] * Parts: matijsb (~Adium@5353CD69.cm-6-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  523. # [18:35] * Joins: matijsb (~Adium@5353CD69.cm-6-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  524. # [18:35] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  525. # [18:39] * Joins: mloki (~mloki__@x1-6-00-10-a7-28-f3-47.k765.webspeed.dk)
  526. # [18:44] * Joins: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113)
  527. # [18:46] * Joins: dave_levin (~dave_levi@74.125.59.76)
  528. # [18:51] * Joins: hdhoang (~hdhoang@cmalu.zahe.me)
  529. # [18:54] * Quits: hdhoang (~hdhoang@cmalu.zahe.me) (Client Quit)
  530. # [18:54] * Joins: thomasb (~tbassetto@pro75-4-82-238-200-10.fbx.proxad.net)
  531. # [18:57] * Quits: tbassetto (~tbassetto@pro75-4-82-238-200-10.fbx.proxad.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  532. # [18:58] * Joins: maikmerten (~maikmerte@port-92-201-231-239.dynamic.qsc.de)
  533. # [18:59] <annevk> character encoding registry still malfunctioning
  534. # [18:59] * Joins: ap (~ap@2620:0:1b00:1191:226:4aff:fe14:aad6)
  535. # [19:00] <annevk> maybe once I'm back I'm interested in updating my research again and actually write a spec
  536. # [19:04] * Joins: jeremyselier (~Jeremy@92.103.127.226)
  537. # [19:04] * Quits: jeremyselier (~Jeremy@92.103.127.226) (Client Quit)
  538. # [19:05] * Quits: SteveGL (~dev@174-21-205-223.tukw.qwest.net) (Quit: SteveGL)
  539. # [19:05] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@2620:101:8003:200:222:68ff:fe15:af5c)
  540. # [19:07] * Quits: workmad3 (~workmad3@cspool123.cs.man.ac.uk) (Remote host closed the connection)
  541. # [19:11] * Quits: thomasb (~tbassetto@pro75-4-82-238-200-10.fbx.proxad.net) (Quit: thomasb)
  542. # [19:25] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@pat.se.opera.com)
  543. # [19:30] <AryehGregor> annevk, my specs are at aryeh.name/gitweb.cgi if I have nowhere else specific to put them.
  544. # [19:35] * Quits: mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@wg1-nat.fwgal01.deri.ie) (Quit: mhausenblas)
  545. # [19:40] * Joins: davidb (~davidb@corp.tor1.mozilla.com)
  546. # [19:42] * Joins: mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@wg1-nat.fwgal01.deri.ie)
  547. # [19:42] * Quits: mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@wg1-nat.fwgal01.deri.ie) (Client Quit)
  548. # [19:44] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachlan@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no)
  549. # [19:46] * Joins: jiesun_ (~jiesun@nat/google/x-qemnqpotvngpaeyg)
  550. # [19:46] * Joins: Steve^ (~steve@cpc2-hari1-0-0-cust1111.hari.cable.virginmedia.com)
  551. # [19:47] * Joins: erlehmann (~erlehmann@82.113.99.44)
  552. # [19:48] * Joins: charlvn (~quassel@41.0.48.93)
  553. # [19:52] * Quits: Martijnc (~Martijnc@91.176.100.249) (Quit: Martijnc)
  554. # [19:53] * Quits: KaOSoFt (~maxzagato@unaffiliated/kaosoft)
  555. # [19:54] * Joins: KaOSoFt (~maxzagato@unaffiliated/kaosoft)
  556. # [20:00] <annevk> yay more URLs
  557. # [20:03] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@2620:101:8003:200:222:68ff:fe15:af5c) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.14/20110301090359])
  558. # [20:05] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@2620:101:8003:200:222:68ff:fe15:af5c)
  559. # [20:06] * Joins: sicking (~chatzilla@2620:101:8003:200:226:bbff:fe05:3fe1)
  560. # [20:09] * Quits: seventh (~seventh@64.9.173.187) (Remote host closed the connection)
  561. # [20:10] * Joins: BArOc (~maxzagato@186.112.14.234)
  562. # [20:11] * Quits: KaOSoFt (~maxzagato@unaffiliated/kaosoft) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  563. # [20:12] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@82.113.99.44) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  564. # [20:18] <Ms2ger> We just need someone to put specs in bzr...
  565. # [20:19] <AryehGregor> Is there an established term for "a Node or its ancestor"? The original DOM Range spec uses "ancestor container".
  566. # [20:19] <AryehGregor> I guess I'll go with that for now.
  567. # [20:22] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@2620:101:8003:200:222:68ff:fe15:af5c) (Quit: brb)
  568. # [20:22] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@2620:0:1b00:1191:223:32ff:feaf:7f36)
  569. # [20:25] * BArOc is now known as KaOSoFt
  570. # [20:25] * Quits: KaOSoFt (~maxzagato@186.112.14.234) (Changing host)
  571. # [20:25] * Joins: KaOSoFt (~maxzagato@unaffiliated/kaosoft)
  572. # [20:26] <annevk> ancestor or self
  573. # [20:26] <annevk> I think
  574. # [20:26] <annevk> or maybe that's just XPath
  575. # [20:26] <AryehGregor> "If foo is an ancestor or self of bar"?
  576. # [20:26] <AryehGregor> Doesn't read well.
  577. # [20:28] <zewt> "if foo is bar or an ancestor of bar"
  578. # [20:28] <AryehGregor> I was using that, but it gets awkward if you need it a lot.
  579. # [20:28] <AryehGregor> Old definition of "partially contained": A Node is partially contained in a range if either it is the same as or an ancestor of the range's start node but is neither equal to nor an ancestor of its end node, or is the same as or an ancestor of the range's end node but is neither equal to nor an ancestor of its start node.
  580. # [20:28] <AryehGregor> New definition: A Node is partially contained in a range if it is an ancestor container of the range's start but not its end, or vice versa.
  581. # [20:29] <zewt> strange term; "ancestor container" doesn't suggest "same node" at all to me
  582. # [20:30] * Joins: jamesr (~jamesr@216.239.45.19)
  583. # [20:30] * Quits: cgcardona (~cgcardona@adsl-99-154-225-102.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  584. # [20:30] * Joins: cgcardona (~cgcardona@adsl-99-154-225-102.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
  585. # [20:30] <AryehGregor> I know, it's a bad name.
  586. # [20:30] <AryehGregor> I didn't make it up.
  587. # [20:31] <Philip`> AryehGregor: I have a book that says a node is its own ancestor
  588. # [20:31] <AryehGregor> It might help to know that "container" really means "node", in the original context.
  589. # [20:31] <Philip`> but not its own proper ancestor
  590. # [20:31] <AryehGregor> Philip`, yes, that would be the mathematical way to do it.
  591. # [20:31] <AryehGregor> It was my first thought, really.
  592. # [20:31] <AryehGregor> But it's confusing to non-mathematicians.
  593. # [20:31] <AryehGregor> "I'm my own grandpa!"
  594. # [20:31] <zewt> Philip`: i don't think using that definition of "ancestor" is a good idea--programmers don't think of the term that way
  595. # [20:31] <Philip`> To avoid ambiguity, call it an improper ancestor :-)
  596. # [20:32] <zewt> that's so much clearer :P
  597. # [20:33] <AryehGregor> An improper ancestor would be an ancestor that's not not proper, i.e., the node itself.
  598. # [20:33] <AryehGregor> It would be a possibly-improper ancestor.
  599. # [20:33] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@5355737B.cm-6-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Quit: annevk)
  600. # [20:36] * Quits: maikmerten (~maikmerte@port-92-201-231-239.dynamic.qsc.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
  601. # [20:38] * Quits: charlvn (~quassel@41.0.48.93) (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
  602. # [20:42] * Joins: seventh (seventh@138.199.65.157)
  603. # [20:42] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@2620:101:8003:200:222:68ff:fe15:af5c)
  604. # [20:43] * Joins: nessy (~Adium@124-169-147-115.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  605. # [20:55] * Joins: vanderhuge_ (42c34299@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.195.66.153)
  606. # [21:02] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@206.217.92.186) (Quit: miketaylr)
  607. # [21:07] * Quits: KaOSoFt (~maxzagato@unaffiliated/kaosoft) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  608. # [21:09] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@2620:0:1b00:1191:223:32ff:feaf:7f36) (Quit: weinig)
  609. # [21:12] * Quits: TabAtkins (~tabatkins@nat/mozilla/x-yojlqvvhlrnngvlm) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  610. # [21:12] * Joins: bfrohs (~bfrohs@smtp.forewordinternal.com)
  611. # [21:18] * Joins: matijsb1 (~matijsb@5353CD69.cm-6-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  612. # [21:20] * Quits: matjas (~matjas@91.182.176.106) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  613. # [21:28] * Quits: matijsb1 (~matijsb@5353CD69.cm-6-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  614. # [21:29] * Joins: saba (~foo@unaffiliated/saba)
  615. # [21:32] * Quits: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) (Quit: Reading http://davidwalsh.name)
  616. # [21:34] * Joins: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)
  617. # [21:34] * Quits: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) (Client Quit)
  618. # [21:37] <twisted_> how come there's a huge difference in rendering (nowadays?) between gecko and webkit?
  619. # [21:37] <twisted_> I suddenly have a lot of inconsitencies...
  620. # [21:38] <Ms2ger> There usually isn't
  621. # [21:38] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181139127.pp.htv.fi) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  622. # [21:38] <twisted_> Ms2ger: I know but i got a certain design atm
  623. # [21:38] <twisted_> where it looks perfect in Webkit and totally fubar'd in firefox
  624. # [21:38] <twisted_> and really... confused
  625. # [21:40] * Quits: cgcardona (~cgcardona@adsl-99-154-225-102.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: zzzzz)
  626. # [21:43] <AryehGregor> twisted_, link?
  627. # [21:43] <roc> create a minimal testcase and post it here :-)
  628. # [21:43] <twisted_> sure wait a sec lemme upload
  629. # [21:47] <aho> note that firefox 3.x doesnt use the html5 parser. some valid constructs are completely b0rked. e.g. <a ...><div>...</div></a> will *randomly* break. it's a timing issue which depends on reflows. as such, things like gzip, length, latency, and the phase of the moon affect it :I
  630. # [21:47] <twisted_> AryehGregor: http://bastardoperatorfromhell.org/~jakoury/contact.html
  631. # [21:48] <kbrosnan> roc: ^
  632. # [21:48] <twisted_> oh and I get one interesting error which I understand but... thought I was allowed
  633. # [21:49] <twisted_> not allowed to use a <header> inside a <header> but I thought it's allowed if you start a new <section> or <article>
  634. # [21:49] <aho> twisted_, section and so forth need a display:block
  635. # [21:49] <aho> try eric's new reset
  636. # [21:49] <aho> it's a good starting point
  637. # [21:49] <aho> http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/css/reset/
  638. # [21:50] <aho> (unknown elements default to display:inline)
  639. # [21:50] <twisted_> cool talking a look
  640. # [21:51] <twisted_> aho: small change but getting closer
  641. # [21:51] <zcorpan> twisted_: what's the use case for header in section or article in header?
  642. # [21:52] <twisted_> well I'm afraid indeed that I gotta rewrite that part... hehe... I started on index.html and worked from there but THERE the header made sense
  643. # [21:52] <twisted_> here it should just be a normal div I think
  644. # [21:52] <Ms2ger> zcorpan, s/header in section/section in header/?
  645. # [21:52] <aho> twisted_, add overflow:hidden to #top
  646. # [21:53] <zcorpan> Ms2ger: no
  647. # [21:53] <zcorpan> header in (section or article) in header
  648. # [21:54] <Ms2ger> That's not the canonical operator precedence :)
  649. # [21:55] <zcorpan> twisted_: i'm asking because maybe the spec should be changed if there is a use case. what did you have when it made sense?
  650. # [21:56] <twisted_> zcorpan: well, on the index page I had a <header> because it was the top part of the page (the head) and underneat it had the rest. but INSIDE that header I needed later to add some other thingies and that also needed a header inside...
  651. # [21:57] <twisted_> thing I'm missing the most for an <article> is something in between <header> and <footer> (like a <body>)
  652. # [21:57] * Joins: foolip_ (~foolip@h242n6-g-hn-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com)
  653. # [21:57] <twisted_> cause explaining that <article> had a column-count of 2 makes everything go all whooey, but now I wrap the <p>'s inbetween <header> and <footer> in a <div>
  654. # [21:58] <roc> twisted_: looks like we don't support position:relative with 'right' and 'bottom'
  655. # [21:59] <AryehGregor> o_O
  656. # [21:59] <AryehGregor> Isn't that kind of basic?
  657. # [21:59] <twisted_> roc: it _suddenly_ works
  658. # [21:59] <twisted_> I refereshed and poof
  659. # [21:59] <twisted_> it looks the same
  660. # [21:59] <roc> AryehGregor: I don't think anyone ever uses anything but 'left' and 'top' for relative positioning
  661. # [21:59] <roc> until now!
  662. # [21:59] <roc> I didn't even know you *could* use right and bottom
  663. # [22:00] <twisted_> roc: well cause this crazy designer thought of aligning it to the right
  664. # [22:00] <twisted_> and then it's easier to measure it from there
  665. # [22:00] <twisted_> roc: used it before btw
  666. # [22:00] <AryehGregor> I guess for relative positioning, right and bottom are equivalent to the negative of left and top?
  667. # [22:00] <roc> yes
  668. # [22:00] <twisted_> checkout the prijzen.html
  669. # [22:00] <AryehGregor> For absolute positioning, obviously there's a really big difference, so you'd use all of them.
  670. # [22:00] <roc> sure
  671. # [22:00] <roc> we would have noticed by now if right and bottom didn't work for abs-pos :-)
  672. # [22:00] <zewt> heh
  673. # [22:01] <zewt> nothing's better than the things that are broken and seem like they can't possibly actually be broken
  674. # [22:01] <twisted_> \o/
  675. # [22:01] <twisted_> ok now off to fiddle with getting custom radiobuttons
  676. # [22:02] <twisted_> this designer wants to have a 3px solid #a40061 border around a circle
  677. # [22:02] <twisted_> instead of the normal thingies
  678. # [22:02] <twisted_> grrr
  679. # [22:02] <roc> wow, I think we don't even have a bug on file about this
  680. # [22:03] <twisted_> roc: refresh this: http://bastardoperatorfromhell.org/~jakoury/contact.html position problem has been solved
  681. # [22:03] <twisted_> but only thing I changed... was the overflow: none
  682. # [22:03] <roc> oh wait
  683. # [22:03] <twisted_> so... dunno
  684. # [22:03] <roc> we do have code for this
  685. # [22:03] <roc> so something else is broken
  686. # [22:03] <roc> I dunno
  687. # [22:03] <roc> need minimal testcase, etc
  688. # [22:03] <roc> at least file a bug
  689. # [22:04] <roc> please
  690. # [22:04] <roc> thanks
  691. # [22:05] * Quits: davidb (~davidb@corp.tor1.mozilla.com) (Quit: davidb)
  692. # [22:10] <twisted_> roc: uhm... I'd love to but... not sure what just fixed it actually
  693. # [22:10] <twisted_> *magic*
  694. # [22:13] <roc> oh, that was my psychic powers
  695. # [22:14] <roc> many developers find that their presence makes users unable to reproduce bugs
  696. # [22:15] * Joins: ttepasse (~ttepasse@ip-109-90-161-169.unitymediagroup.de)
  697. # [22:16] * Joins: TabAtkins (~tabatkins@nat/mozilla/x-xylhjbrtwsarrwmj)
  698. # [22:17] * Joins: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  699. # [22:18] * Joins: ezoe (~ezoe@61-205-124-17f1.kyt1.eonet.ne.jp)
  700. # [22:18] * Joins: wolfman2000 (~wolfman20@152-20-175-29.rev.uncw.edu)
  701. # [22:20] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181139127.pp.htv.fi)
  702. # [22:24] * Joins: sephr (~Eli@c-98-235-63-240.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
  703. # [22:29] * Quits: danbri (~danbri@ip176-48-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  704. # [22:30] <twisted_> roc: it's the common law of computing
  705. # [22:30] <twisted_> users call for their sysadmin (me) and suddenly the problem they had is gone
  706. # [22:31] <twisted_> big chance that when I check tomorrow the bug is back ;) haha
  707. # [22:37] * Joins: danbri (~danbri@ip176-48-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl)
  708. # [22:38] * Joins: cgcardona (~cgcardona@c-24-5-146-71.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  709. # [22:39] * Joins: benschwarz (~benschwar@ppp59-167-179-123.static.internode.on.net)
  710. # [22:41] <twisted_> question maybe someone here can clarify: I understand that during development of new features there's a -webkit or -moz prefix to a css property but for example the border-radius and -moz-border-radius has (afaik) the same syntax. Why not then have it as just border-radius?
  711. # [22:44] <bfrohs> There are still bugs with -moz-border-radius
  712. # [22:45] <bfrohs> This way, you know -moz-border-radius will have the bugs, while border-radius in a future version of firefox will not
  713. # [22:45] <bfrohs> (at least not major bugs that they know about)
  714. # [22:45] <twisted_> ;)
  715. # [22:45] <twisted_> hmm makes sense
  716. # [22:47] * Quits: saba (~foo@unaffiliated/saba) (Quit: leaving)
  717. # [22:48] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@user-160vrg5.cable.mindspring.com)
  718. # [22:51] <Ms2ger> Also, they don't have the same syntax for the longhand, iirc
  719. # [22:52] * Quits: wolfman2000 (~wolfman20@152-20-175-29.rev.uncw.edu) (Remote host closed the connection)
  720. # [22:53] <twisted_> this site is gonna be an all nighter I'm afraid
  721. # [22:53] <twisted_> pff
  722. # [22:53] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.118.178) (Quit: nn)
  723. # [22:54] * Quits: JoePeck (~JoePeck@2620:0:1b00:1f08:fa1e:dfff:fed9:b9a) (Remote host closed the connection)
  724. # [22:55] * Joins: JoePeck (~JoePeck@2620:0:1b00:1f08:fa1e:dfff:fed9:b9a)
  725. # [23:00] * Quits: roc (~chatzilla@121.98.230.221) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  726. # [23:02] * Quits: msucan (~robod@109.96.194.42) (Quit: .)
  727. # [23:02] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  728. # [23:04] * Quits: FastJack (~fastjack@dumpstr.net) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  729. # [23:04] * Joins: MrDoublesite (~mropposit@unaffiliated/mropposite)
  730. # [23:04] * Quits: MrDoublesite (~mropposit@unaffiliated/mropposite) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  731. # [23:04] * Joins: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)
  732. # [23:05] <jamesr> -moz-border-radius is not the best example
  733. # [23:07] * Joins: FastJack (~fastjack@dumpstr.net)
  734. # [23:08] * Quits: xtoph (~xtoph@213.47.185.206)
  735. # [23:09] * Quits: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113) (Quit: IRC is just multiplayer notepad)
  736. # [23:09] <zcorpan> twisted_: you can't know that border-radius is going to have the same syntax until the spec is finished
  737. # [23:11] * Joins: estes (~aestes@2620:0:1b00:1191:d69a:20ff:fed0:8cd2)
  738. # [23:12] * Joins: roc (~chatzilla@203-97-204-82.dsl.clear.net.nz)
  739. # [23:12] * Joins: matijsb1 (~matijsb@5353CD69.cm-6-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  740. # [23:18] * Quits: seventh (seventh@138.199.65.157) (Quit: ...)
  741. # [23:20] * Quits: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  742. # [23:25] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181139127.pp.htv.fi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  743. # [23:26] * Quits: foolip_ (~foolip@h242n6-g-hn-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  744. # [23:32] * Quits: MrOpposite (~mropposit@unaffiliated/mropposite) (Quit: OMG, YOU KILLED OPPO!)
  745. # [23:42] * Joins: 5EXACCZEY (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
  746. # [23:44] * Quits: homata___ (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  747. # [23:48] * Quits: BlurstOfTimes (~blurstoft@168.203.117.36) (Remote host closed the connection)
  748. # [23:50] * Joins: seventh (seventh@138.199.77.237)
  749. # [23:51] * Quits: Steve^ (~steve@cpc2-hari1-0-0-cust1111.hari.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: Leaving)
  750. # [23:55] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@user-160vrg5.cable.mindspring.com) (Quit: miketaylr)
  751. # Session Close: Wed Mar 09 00:00:00 2011

The end :)