/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2011-03-20 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sun Mar 20 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  19. # [00:47] <eric_carlson> Hixie: ping?
  20. # [00:47] <Hixie> here
  21. # [00:48] <eric_carlson> what is the rational for not having cues in the DOM?
  22. # [00:49] <Hixie> they are in the dom
  23. # [00:49] <Hixie> same as CSS and JS
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  25. # [00:49] <eric_carlson> Hixie: the text for the current cue?
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  27. # [00:50] <Hixie> the text for the current cue of the first track of a video element /video/ is video.tracks[0].activeCues[0].getCueAsHTML()
  28. # [00:51] <nessy> it's not in the page DOM though, right?
  29. # [00:52] <Hixie> it's in the page DOM just like CSS and JS is...? I don't understand the question.
  30. # [00:52] <nessy> as in - a cue could be added as a <div> underneath e.g. the <track> element
  31. # [00:53] <Hixie> ?
  32. # [00:53] <erlehmann> whyyyy would you do that?
  33. # [00:53] <Hixie> oh you mean putting the cues in teh page?
  34. # [00:53] <Hixie> i considered that but it seemed like most people would want thhe subtitles in a separate file
  35. # [00:54] <nessy> the idea is to parse the external file and upon parsing change the page DOM and add the cues in <div> elements
  36. # [00:54] <erlehmann> well, that would certainly be possible. but inline cues would be a mess. let's not go there.
  37. # [00:55] <nessy> why would they be a mess?
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  39. # [00:55] <Hixie> that makes no sense
  40. # [00:55] <nessy> (not necessarily saying I want that, but trying to understand the reasons)
  41. # [00:56] <Hixie> why would something not in the page be in the page?
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  43. # [00:56] <Hixie> i don't think i understand the proposal
  44. # [00:57] <erlehmann> nessy, what would happen if track elements are in a video and in a div next to it?
  45. # [00:58] <erlehmann> in what order would video.tracks be filled? what if later the DOM changes?
  46. # [00:58] <erlehmann> what if the div with the tracks comes before the video? can tracks for one video also be used for another?
  47. # [00:58] <nessy> erlehmann: this is not the proposal
  48. # [00:58] <erlehmann> oh. i don't think i understand the proposal, then.
  49. # [00:59] <Hixie> yeah me either
  50. # [00:59] <erlehmann> please elaborate, nessy.
  51. # [00:59] <nessy> erlehmann: the proposal is to parse an external file and to load the cues from that external file into the page and then ignore the external file
  52. # [00:59] <Hixie> that's exactly what happens
  53. # [00:59] <nessy> like an iframe
  54. # [00:59] <Hixie> the cues get parsed, just like js or css, into a dom structure
  55. # [00:59] <erlehmann> nessy, „into the page“?
  56. # [00:59] <nessy> ok, but right now we only add them to the IDL, not the page DOM
  57. # [00:59] <Hixie> that's what video.tracks is
  58. # [01:00] <Hixie> what's the difference between "the IDL" and "the page DOM"?
  59. # [01:00] <nessy> no, you cannot address it directly through CSS
  60. # [01:00] <erlehmann> i remain confused. nessy, what is video.tracks missing?
  61. # [01:00] <Hixie> oh if you're talking about how you style it in CSS, then you use the ::cue pseudo-element
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  63. # [01:01] <Hixie> so in the page CSS you can say, e.g., viduo::cue(v[voice=narrator]) { color: red; }
  64. # [01:01] <nessy> sure, the question that is being asked here is why not put it straight into the page so we don't need a pseudo-element and can directly use a page element
  65. # [01:02] <Hixie> well like i said, i did consider supporting having the cues directly in the page
  66. # [01:02] <nessy> e.g. video > track > cue
  67. # [01:02] <Hixie> but it seems most people would want to use an external file
  68. # [01:02] <Hixie> so i ended up not supporting that
  69. # [01:02] <Hixie> we could certainly add support for in-page cues too i guess
  70. # [01:02] <Hixie> if there's a good use case
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  72. # [01:03] <nessy> the author wouldn't author them in the page - they would be authored in an external file
  73. # [01:03] <Hixie> basically just define a maping of nodes to the Track API
  74. # [01:03] <Hixie> you just said "having the cues directly in the page"
  75. # [01:03] <Hixie> er, mispaste. you just said "why not put it straight into the page"
  76. # [01:03] <nessy> after the UA has parsed the file and included them into the page
  77. # [01:03] <Hixie> wait wait wait, you're saying you want the VTT parser to actually parse into the HTML parser's output?!
  78. # [01:04] <nessy> yes - are there good reasons not to do that?
  79. # [01:04] <Hixie> sanity?
  80. # [01:04] <Hixie> i mean that would just be crazy
  81. # [01:04] <nessy> why? (sorry for asking the seemingly dumb...)
  82. # [01:05] <Hixie> it would be completely inconsistent with everything the platform does with external files
  83. # [01:05] <Hixie> it would prevent any kind of round-tripping of files containing links to cues
  84. # [01:05] <Hixie> it would mean the DOM didn't reflect the markup even when no script has manipulated the DOM
  85. # [01:05] <nessy> iframes get rendered into the DOM, too
  86. # [01:05] <Hixie> <iframe>s work exactly like cues
  87. # [01:05] <Hixie> they are separate trees
  88. # [01:06] <Hixie> that can be accessed via the DOM API
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  90. # [01:06] <Hixie> the child of the iframe isn't the iframe's browsing context's dom tree
  91. # [01:06] <Hixie> that would be a security disaster
  92. # [01:07] <nessy> it's the round-tripping of links in the cue that would create the security disaster?
  93. # [01:07] <Hixie> i mean... if external cues went into the HTML tree, it would mean that an external cue file could affect form submission of unrelated forms, for example
  94. # [01:07] <Hixie> no the security disaster would be if iframes worked as you describe
  95. # [01:07] <Hixie> not for cues
  96. # [01:08] <Hixie> cues are same-origin, so we side-step the security issues there
  97. # [01:08] <Hixie> though if we did what you described, we'd never be able to do cross-origin cues either
  98. # [01:08] <nessy> ok, so that problem doesn't exist for cues?
  99. # [01:08] <nessy> ah ok
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  101. # [01:10] <nessy> thanks, that's the arguments that we needed :-)
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  180. # [07:04] <Hixie> why on earth are <output> elements in Chrome focusable
  181. # [07:04] <Hixie> is that fixed in dev builds?
  182. # [07:05] * Hixie wonders if he's already run into this and complained about it...
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  295. # [18:15] <MikeSmith> foolip: you around?
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  327. # [20:05] <Xdega> Hi. Just a heads up to any admins. I just submitted a new blog entry for review ;)
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  393. # [23:58] <ktos> Hello
  394. # [23:59] <ktos> I read TabAtkins blogpost about layout template vs flexbox
  395. # Session Close: Mon Mar 21 00:00:01 2011

The end :)