/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2011-03-22 / end

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  158. # [09:55] <hsivonen> Did Opera ship a browser for Windows Phone 7 today? Mini? Java translated to CLR?
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  163. # [10:13] <jgraham> OMG! double (positive) digit temperatures!
  164. # [10:16] <jgraham> hsivonen: More to the point, did we put a picture on opera.com depicting Windows as an aging rock drummer?
  165. # [10:17] <gsnedders> hsivonen: FWIW, you're not going to get an answer to that from anywhere. Apart from the fact that we did indeed ship.
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  167. # [10:19] <jgraham> gsnedders: I think the answer is no, isn't it? Unless I don't understand our press release
  168. # [10:19] <hsivonen> gsnedders: I see that Opera shipped on Symbian and Android. Was anything shipped on an kind of handheld Windows today?
  169. # [10:19] <jgraham> "The Opera Mobile 11 browser [...] Windows 7 desktop (labs release)"
  170. # [10:19] <hsivonen> AFAICT, nothing was shipped for Windows or iOS
  171. # [10:19] <hsivonen> jgraham: ooh.
  172. # [10:20] <hsivonen> interesting
  173. # [10:20] <gsnedders> Oooh.
  174. # [10:20] <gsnedders> Stop assuming I've read stuff.
  175. # [10:20] <gsnedders> :)
  176. # [10:20] <hsivonen> jgraham: so it's for Windows 7 tablets?
  177. # [10:20] <hsivonen> anyway, congratulations for shipping
  178. # [10:21] <jgraham> hsivonen: I think that is the idea
  179. # [10:21] <hsivonen> does Mobile on Android support WebM?
  180. # [10:21] <hsivonen> also, kudos for not losing my Opera Mini settings this time
  181. # [10:21] <gsnedders> Oh, yay, first stable release with JIT for ARM. I can claim to have done something that's part of it.
  182. # [10:21] <jgraham> Not sure, I would have to find the documentation
  183. # [10:22] <hsivonen> my Opera Mobile settings were lost, though
  184. # [10:22] * Joins: virtuelv (~virtuelv_@pat-tdc.opera.com)
  185. # [10:24] <hsivonen> on the bringht side, this time the UX for logging into an existing Opera Link account for the first time in a given Opera Mobile installations sucks less
  186. # [10:25] <hsivonen> that is, this time the setup process gives feedback that the first sync is happening and lets the user know when the first sync is done
  187. # [10:26] <hsivonen> now Speed Dial rerendered the thumbnails, so I lost the face of Jimmy Wales :-(
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  189. # [10:27] <hsivonen> (on the Speed Dial entry for Wikipedia that is)
  190. # [10:28] <jgraham> Gosh, that sounds like a terrible loss. Were you just enjoying prodding him in the eyes to access stuff?
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  192. # [10:29] <hsivonen> Opera Mobile on S60 seems to have regressed @font-face support
  193. # [10:29] <hsivonen> but has gained <video> support
  194. # [10:29] <hsivonen> in such a way that trying to play a video brings up a download prompt
  195. # [10:30] <hsivonen> I will probably have to edit webm.html5.org to special case Opera Mobile 11
  196. # [10:31] <jgraham> That doesn't sound ideal :(
  197. # [10:31] <hsivonen> jgraham: especially when .play() from JS brings up the download prompt
  198. # [10:31] <jgraham> But it might be platform-specific; it seems to work fine on the windows 7 version
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  200. # [10:45] <hsivonen> does anyone here happen to have Opera Mobile 11 on Symbian^3?
  201. # [10:45] <hsivonen> what happens on http://webm.html5.org/ in Opera Mobile 11 on Symbian^3?
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  207. # [11:01] <jgraham> hsivonen: Filed your issues
  208. # [11:01] <hsivonen> jgraham: thanks
  209. # [11:04] <hsivonen> using IE9 to navigate to m.opera.com for the Windows 7 version fails
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  214. # [11:08] <hsivonen> also, the Windows 7 installer isn't signed
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  217. # [11:11] <jgraham> hsivonen: What S60 device are you using?
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  219. # [11:13] <hsivonen> jgraham: Nokia 6120 Classic
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  221. # [11:17] <hsivonen> hmm. the press release says Opera Mobile 11 is available for Maemo. Does that mean Maemo 5 only or also Maemo 4? my Maemo 4 device didn't autoupdate
  222. # [11:22] <hsivonen> hmm. I don't see any Maemo download for Opera Mobile 11
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  244. # [12:31] <Lachy> The design of the new audioTracks API seems to be quite strange
  245. # [12:32] <Lachy> I was expecting audioTracks to be a collection of AudioTrack objects, with each one implementing properties like .volume, .enable, .label, .kind, etc.
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  247. # [12:36] <Lachy> and it's somewhat weird that the videoTrack only allows a single video track to be enabled at a time, when there are use cases for multiple video tracks (like a sign language track, or other overlays) that could be addressed easier than with the synchronisation feature
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  256. # [13:11] <jgraham> Navigation to fragments seems to be async per spec. Is that right?
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  310. # [16:01] <jgraham> Congratulations on the release Mozilla people
  311. # [16:02] <nimbupani> yes congratulations!
  312. # [16:02] <jgraham> Ooh, need more !
  313. # [16:02] <jgraham> Let's try again
  314. # [16:02] <jgraham> Congratulations on the release Mozilla people!
  315. # [16:03] <jgraham> Better!
  316. # [16:03] <Rik`> thanks :)
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  318. # [16:04] <hsivonen> thanks. congratulations for the release of Opera Mobile & Mini
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  320. # [16:07] <nimbupani> ha ha thanks :)
  321. # [16:08] <Rik`> yeah congrats on so many simultaneous releases
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  324. # [16:15] <kennyluck> Congratulations on the release Mozilla people!!
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  328. # [16:18] <Lachy> there's a little push coming, from the feedback I'm getting, for the about: URI scheme draft to be updated to include an IANA registry for reserved about: URIs. I'm not sure what to do about that.
  329. # [16:18] <Lachy> I certainly don't want it to be a bureaucratic nightmare, like the past attempts with the link rel registry
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  333. # [16:24] <hober> bleah
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  339. # [16:31] <hober> Lachy: besides about:blank, are there any other about: URIs that need to be specified?
  340. # [16:33] <Lachy> about:legacy-compat and about:srcurl are defined in HTML. about:streamurl has been proposed for use with the user media streaming (formerly <device> element) stuff
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  357. # [17:10] <Sabriel1> Any ideas/thoughts on how SEO will be affected by the new HTML5 Modular sectioning of content (such as using h1s inside sections within sections etc)
  358. # [17:10] <TabAtkins> It wont' be significant.
  359. # [17:10] <Sabriel1> Are search engines such as Google (because lets be honest where google goes the others will follow) already understanding this, or if we use it now will we be punished do you know?
  360. # [17:11] <TabAtkins> Google has officially said that you shouldn't worry about it.
  361. # [17:11] <Sabriel1> HTML5 has me very excited but my company works with several SEO/SMM companies and i'm sure this part will be a big deal to them.
  362. # [17:11] <Sabriel1> Do you have a link to anything I can read about how google is/is planning to handle such structural changes?
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  364. # [17:12] <TabAtkins> http://html5doctor.com/html5-seo-search-engine-optimisation/
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  377. # [17:29] <TabAtkins> Interesting, we've got a 4-dot quantum chip that can almost certainly be scaled up.
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  421. # [19:15] <TabAtkins> Man, I wish they'd gone with <c> instead of <span>. Shorter, and then we'd have innumerable tutorials purporting to teach you the "<a> <b> <c>s of HTML".
  422. # [19:15] <TabAtkins> (I just like that using <a> and <b> in examples looks like you're using placeholders.)
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  427. # [19:30] <AryehGregor> Hixie isn't here, amazing.
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  444. # [19:55] <kennyluck> Wow.
  445. # [19:56] <TabAtkins> jgraham: By the way, I have a bugtracker now. https://github.com/tabatkins/life/issues
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  460. # [20:20] <asmodai> Anybody happen to know if the Firefox 4 release changed from the RC + updates? Just wondering whether I'd need to install or if update is being right saying there are no updates available.
  461. # [20:21] <Ms2ger> We don't usually change any bits in the binary between the last RC and final
  462. # [20:21] <asmodai> Cool, then I don't need to mess with the current install.
  463. # [20:22] <asmodai> I'm still trying to remember where the version/user id string is hidden nowadays
  464. # [20:22] <Ms2ger> about:buildconfig?
  465. # [20:22] <asmodai> ah yes
  466. # [20:22] <asmodai> that's the one, ta
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  480. # [20:51] <blooberry> elise: did you see this? http://www.useit.com/alertbox/nonprofit-donations.html
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  485. # [21:02] <blooberry> *facepalm* (wrong channel)
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  501. # [21:58] <nessy> Hixie not around today?
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  507. # [22:12] <TabAtkins> His server's being re-imaged.
  508. # [22:13] <TabAtkins> nessy: You on 1950 3rd floor, right? I think Hixie might have been heading up there.
  509. # [22:13] <nessy> 4th floor
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  511. # [22:13] <nessy> ok, that's cool
  512. # [22:13] <TabAtkins> He was just at my desk about two minutes ago, on the 2nd floor.
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  540. # [23:14] <AryehGregor> Philip`, does the dotnetdotcom.org index only contain text/html files?
  541. # [23:15] * Quits: Rik` (~Rik`@mozilla-paris-253-99.cnt.nerim.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  542. # [23:15] <Philip`> AryehGregor: http://philip.html5.org/data/dotbot-20090424.txt
  543. # [23:16] <AryehGregor> Ah, thanks.
  544. # [23:16] <Philip`> I don't know kind of filtering or processing they did on the data
  545. # [23:16] <Philip`> *what kind
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  547. # [23:17] <AryehGregor> I'm looking for stats about execCommand() usage, so I really want to search stuff in scripts.
  548. # [23:17] <AryehGregor> So that probably won't be too useful, oh well.
  549. # [23:18] <Philip`> There's lots of inline scripts
  550. # [23:18] <Philip`> but otherwise you'd have to parse the HTML and resolve <script src>s and download them
  551. # [23:18] <AryehGregor> Which basically means searching all the scripts myself, which is probably pointless given how many scripts there are and how few will use execCommand().
  552. # [23:19] <Philip`> http://philip.html5.org/data/execCommand.txt was some inline scripts
  553. # [23:19] <Philip`> That's like 0.1% of pages, which is pretty high :-)
  554. # [23:20] <Philip`> Downloading a million files is easy and looks like it should give a non-zero number of usages
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  557. # [23:23] <AryehGregor> Yeah, but it will be an extremely skewed sample of execCommand() usage, since any nontrivial use is likely to be in a separate .js file.
  558. # [23:24] <AryehGregor> The usages there look like they're only doing one trivial thing.
  559. # [23:24] <Philip`> I mean downloading a million separate .js files is easy
  560. # [23:24] <Philip`> for relative values of "easy"
  561. # [23:24] <AryehGregor> Only two of them even use a formatting command.
  562. # [23:24] <AryehGregor> Oh.
  563. # [23:24] <AryehGregor> Well, I'll ask Hixie when he gets back on.
  564. # [23:25] <Philip`> (At least it's not harder than downloading a million .html files)
  565. # [23:25] <AryehGregor> Would be kind of stupid for me to try doing something like that in the course of doing a job for Google. :)
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  567. # [23:25] <Philip`> (assuming you already have a million .html files to follow links from)
  568. # [23:25] <Philip`> (and an HTML parser and a URL resolver that understands <base> etc)
  569. # [23:25] <Philip`> (and a parallel downloader)
  570. # [23:26] <Philip`> (Then it's only a few gigabytes of data, which is easily doable on a home internet connection)
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  575. # [23:36] <jamesr> AryehGregor: another option if you have access to a browser vendor is to ask them to instrument execCommand and correlate that against page loads or something
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  577. # [23:36] <AryehGregor> jamesr, I'm just saying that in the e-mail I'm writing right now.
  578. # [23:36] <jamesr> i think most of us have ways for users to opt into anonymous aggregate stat tracking of that sorta stuff these days
  579. # [23:37] <jamesr> you run the risk of getting biased towards the use patterns of whoever uses that browser
  580. # [23:37] <jamesr> (so for example if we did this in chrome dev channel only you'd get people who are cool enough to use chrome and who use dev releases)
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  593. # Session Close: Wed Mar 23 00:00:00 2011

The end :)