/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2011-05-20 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri May 20 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  6. # [00:03] <TabAtkins> What level of reference do you want?
  7. # [00:04] <TabAtkins> The spec works reasonably well. I have a blog post <http://www.xanthir.com/blog/b4570> about it. Otherwise, try html5doctor, perhaps?
  8. # [00:04] <linclark> TabAtkins: I'm probably looking for more advanced, especially comparisons with RDFa
  9. # [00:04] <TabAtkins> Ah, dunno then.
  10. # [00:04] <linclark> TabAtkins: thanks for the link, will read
  11. # [00:05] <TabAtkins> There is only a tiny subset of things that rdfa can do that Microdata can't easily do, related to graphs with circular references.
  12. # [00:05] <TabAtkins> Since most data is tree-structured, the two are equivalent in power, and Microdata is easier to read and write.
  13. # [00:06] <linclark> yeah, I have a bit of experience with RDFa and know it has some real usability issues
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  24. # [00:19] <TabAtkins> I don't understand how, sometimes, when I'm pasting from a view-source window into a text editor, a seemingly random smattering of linebreaks are doubled. I think this applies to both chrome and FF.
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  29. # [00:23] <aho> sometimes = with windows-style linebreaks (i guess)
  30. # [00:25] <TabAtkins> That's what I'd assume, if I didn't author this text myself in a single editor, so I know the linebreaks should all be the same.
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  32. # [00:31] <aho> must be underpants gnomes then
  33. # [00:31] <aho> btw just saw that google io talk which mentioned mdv
  34. # [00:31] <aho> awesome stuff :o
  35. # [00:32] <TabAtkins> Yeah, the one with the two Alexes?
  36. # [00:32] <aho> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzA60hHca9s
  37. # [00:32] <aho> alex russel, ian fette, and someone else
  38. # [00:32] <aho> :>
  39. # [00:32] <aho> http://code.google.com/p/mdv/
  40. # [00:32] <aho> http://code.google.com/p/experimental-css/ <- also nice :)
  41. # [00:33] <aho> i'm f-ing excited about both things
  42. # [00:33] <aho> heh
  43. # [00:33] <TabAtkins> Alex Komoroske was the other.
  44. # [00:34] <TabAtkins> And yus, it's all exciting!
  45. # [00:35] <aho> i think we might actually see this stuff somewhat soonish on smartphones
  46. # [00:35] <aho> (relatively speaking)
  47. # [00:35] <aho> e.g. once webkit got proxy support we could use that mdv "shim" thing
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  53. # [00:45] <cying> TabAtkins: like your response to HTML5 last call poll
  54. # [00:52] <TabAtkins> Heh, thanks, I guess.
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  56. # [00:56] <aho> aw man... there are so many talks :I
  57. # [00:58] <TabAtkins> OH: If I were ever to design a hashing function, I'd try to set things up so that hash(0) = 0. Even if that meant appending a final step to the algorithm:
  58. # [00:58] <TabAtkins> "XOR with da39a3ee5e6b4b0d3255bfef95601890afd80709".
  59. # [00:58] <gsnedders> We really need to implement all the ES5 stuff in Carakan…
  60. # [00:59] <aho> how much is missing?
  61. # [00:59] <aho> forEach, map, and friends do work for example
  62. # [00:59] <gsnedders> aho: Object stuff, Function.prototype.bind, and strict mode
  63. # [01:00] <aho> proxies :D
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  73. # [01:04] <Philip`> TabAtkins: Why? (It sounds risky to mess with the usual cryptographic hash properties like that)
  74. # [01:05] <TabAtkins> Philip`: A static xor like that won't touch the crypto properties at all.
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  76. # [01:13] <Philip`> TabAtkins: It'll cause things like h(h(0)) = 0 which sounds dodgy since algorithms wouldn't expect that
  77. # [01:13] <TabAtkins> It'
  78. # [01:13] <TabAtkins> It's just a fixed point, which can happen anyway.
  79. # [01:14] <Philip`> Normally finding fixed points of a hash should be computationally infeasible
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  81. # [01:16] <The_8472> <TabAtkins> OH: If I were ever to design a hashing function, I'd try to set things up so that hash(0) = 0. Even if that meant appending a final step to the algorithm: <- why would you do that?
  82. # [01:17] <TabAtkins> The_8472: So it's easier to recognize when you're hashing the empty string?
  83. # [01:17] <The_8472> empty string != 0x00
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  93. # [01:41] <TabAtkins> The_8472: For hashing purposes, they *are* equal, aren't they? An empty string should be equivalent to a string of nulls
  94. # [01:41] <The_8472> no
  95. # [01:41] <The_8472> an empty string has a length of 0. a null byte has the length of 1
  96. # [01:42] <TabAtkins> Yes, but hashes run over integers, not strings. What's the difference in the input number?
  97. # [01:42] <Philip`> When hashing arbitrary strings, you usually append a 1 bit and then as many 0 bits as necessary to reach the block size
  98. # [01:42] <TabAtkins> Ah, that would do it.
  99. # [01:42] <Philip`> because otherwise "x" and "x\0" would hash to the same thing
  100. # [01:42] <TabAtkins> Yeah, that makes sense then.
  101. # [01:42] <The_8472> Philip`, the hash algorithms already do that
  102. # [01:42] <The_8472> you don#t have to do it manually
  103. # [01:43] <Philip`> Depends what part you consider the hash algorithm :-)
  104. # [01:43] <TabAtkins> The hash preprocessor does it. ^_^
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  106. # [01:43] <The_8472> the whole merkle-demgard construction, not just the core function
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  186. # [07:45] <myakura> zcorpan, re the form attribute example in html5-diff draft (section 3.2), I see form and id values don't match (form=foo vs. id=test). Do you mean you want to show the input isn't associated with the form? http://dev.w3.org/html5/html4-differences/#new-attributes
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  188. # [07:53] <Akilo> saluton
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  220. # [09:00] <matjas> hsivonen: Since 13 January 2011, the character encoding declaration is now allowed to be within the first 1024 bytes instead of the first 512 bytes.
  221. # [09:00] <matjas> hsivonen: Can haz validator.nu update?
  222. # [09:00] <matjas> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5-diff/
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  225. # [09:06] <matjas> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/semantics.html#charset
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  243. # [10:22] <myakura> matjas, https://bitbucket.org/validator/htmlparser/src/tip/src/nu/validator/htmlparser/impl/Tokenizer.java#cl-1173 says 512 so it might not.
  244. # [10:22] <matjas> myakura: I know, that’s why I’m asking for an update :)
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  248. # [10:27] <myakura> matjas: :) I didn't even know that's been implemented. http://bugzilla.validator.nu/show_bug.cgi?id=413 is still open :)
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  250. # [10:33] <matjas> line 14662 of validator/spec/html5.html says ”<li id=charset1024><span id=charset512 title="">The element containing the character encoding declaration must be serialized completely within the first 1024 bytes of the document.</span></li>”
  251. # [10:34] <matjas> that’s weird
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  266. # [11:39] <matjas> The `id=charset512`, I mean
  267. # [11:42] <Philip`> That's just for compatibility with people linking to old #charset512 URLs, I believe
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  286. # [12:43] <Spacechimp> wow
  287. # [12:44] <Spacechimp> Lots of folks here
  288. # [12:44] <Spacechimp> I have a question about websocket handshakes
  289. # [12:44] <Spacechimp> specifically draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsocketprotocol-00
  290. # [12:45] <Spacechimp> and how to go about formulating the response
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  292. # [12:45] <Spacechimp> this wikipedia article touches on it, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebSockets
  293. # [12:45] <Spacechimp> but its kinda murky
  294. # [12:46] <Spacechimp> anyone have a better resource?
  295. # [12:50] <tomasf> you've read the actual draft, right? :)
  296. # [12:50] <Spacechimp> no
  297. # [12:50] <tomasf> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsocketprotocol-00
  298. # [12:51] <Spacechimp> ah, thank you Tomasf
  299. # [12:51] <tomasf> np
  300. # [12:51] <Spacechimp> I did see it, but didn't realize I could scroll down :P
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  305. # [12:58] <reschke> actually, what you *want* to read is http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsocketprotocol-07
  306. # [12:59] <Spacechimp> is this what chrome is currently using?
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  308. # [13:00] <reschke> dunno
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  310. # [13:01] <Spacechimp> The handshake data I am recieving match what is in 00
  311. # [13:02] <reschke> http://www.chromium.org/developers/web-platform-status
  312. # [13:02] <reschke> i see
  313. # [13:02] <reschke> but be prepared for it to change in future Chrome versions
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  315. # [13:03] <Spacechimp> ah! Left before I could say thank you.
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  317. # [13:04] <Philip`> Spacechimp: You can say it anyway and he'll see it in the IRC logs :-)
  318. # [13:04] <zcorpan> Spacechimp: browsers are going to move away from -00
  319. # [13:04] <Spacechimp> Ok, I will write current and legacy support
  320. # [13:06] <zcorpan> Spacechimp: if you're writing a -00 server, you might find opera's error console helpful (enable websockets in opera:config first)
  321. # [13:07] <Spacechimp> ok, I will check it out.
  322. # [13:07] <Spacechimp> ty
  323. # [13:07] <zcorpan> and a tcp inspector like wireshark is probably helpful
  324. # [13:07] <Spacechimp> yeah, i have been using wireshark
  325. # [13:07] <Spacechimp> :P
  326. # [13:07] <zcorpan> good :)
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  328. # [13:08] <Spacechimp> Was using sysinternals tcp endpoint viewer, but it doesn't log afaik
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  330. # [13:12] <Spacechimp> ah, This is exaclt what I was looking for.
  331. # [13:12] <Spacechimp> *exactly
  332. # [13:13] <zcorpan> what was?
  333. # [13:13] <Spacechimp> Thanks for the links guys!
  334. # [13:13] <Spacechimp> the docs you linked
  335. # [13:14] <Spacechimp> beats trying to figure out specs from wikipedia articles
  336. # [13:15] <smaug____> Spacechimp: Fx4 has websocket -00, but it is disabled by default
  337. # [13:15] <smaug____> Fx6, I hope, will have -07
  338. # [13:16] <Spacechimp> Do you think the security concerns are realistic?
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  340. # [13:17] <smaug____> for -00?
  341. # [13:17] <smaug____> yes, that is a reason why WebSockets aren't enabled by default in Opera or Fx4
  342. # [13:17] <Spacechimp> firefox pulling websockets in general
  343. # [13:18] <smaug____> other reason was that the protocol specification was very unstable at the -00 time
  344. # [13:18] <zcorpan> doesn't seem particularly stable now either
  345. # [13:19] <smaug____> well, it is more stable :)
  346. # [13:19] <zcorpan> how is it more stable?
  347. # [13:19] <smaug____> do we expect handshaking to change?
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  349. # [13:20] <smaug____> I wonder what is a stable spec nowadays...
  350. # [13:20] <zcorpan> i didn't expect handshaking to change at -00 time before the security thing was brought up
  351. # [13:20] <zcorpan> if i had known that websocket would be changed, we wouldn't have implemented it in opera yet
  352. # [13:21] <smaug____> that is probably true for gecko too
  353. # [13:21] <smaug____> since -07 implementation is quite different to -00
  354. # [13:22] <smaug____> at least the -07 spec has gone through more reviews than -00
  355. # [13:22] <smaug____> and that is usually good thing
  356. # [13:22] <Spacechimp> Yeah, I really love the idea of websockets. I do feel like a testpilot atm though. I have a feeling that I am going to be writing support for other (psudo)push tech for browsers that do not support it though.
  357. # [13:22] <zcorpan> smaug____: have you read my review of -06?
  358. # [13:23] <smaug____> nope
  359. # [13:23] <smaug____> apparently I should
  360. # [13:23] <zcorpan> smaug____: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/hybi/current/msg07063.html
  361. # [13:23] <zcorpan> smaug____: the security problem might have been fixed, but the spec is *bad* compared to -00
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  363. # [13:25] <zcorpan> i don't really want opera's implementation work to start with the state the spec is in now
  364. # [13:25] <smaug____> interesting
  365. # [13:25] <zcorpan> but i have not got any indication that the spec is going to be good, so i guess we'll just have to make something up or reverse engineer gecko and chrome
  366. # [13:26] <smaug____> I need to ask Patrick what he thinks about the stability of the spec
  367. # [13:26] * bga_|away is now known as bga_
  368. # [13:27] <Philip`> Isn't this exactly the kind of case where it's been argued that specs should be forked?
  369. # [13:28] <Philip`> (so browser implementers can override the standardisation groups, without ending up in an unspecified mess)
  370. # [13:28] <Philip`> (if they refuse to implement what the standardisation group proposes)
  371. # [13:28] <zcorpan> Philip`: yeah forking the spec is a possibility
  372. # [13:30] <zcorpan> Philip`: it's not that i refuse to implement the spec, it's just that it leaves a lot of things undefined, so i have no idea what to implement
  373. # [13:31] <zcorpan> (not that it's me who's going to implement it, i'm just QA, but nevertheless)
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  388. # [14:28] <zcorpan> seems the canvas spec has most support in the poll
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  401. # [14:55] <smaug____> does anyone know any public tests for server sent events?
  402. # [14:58] <zcorpan> http://tc.labs.opera.com/apis/EventSource/
  403. # [14:59] <zcorpan> has svn interface if you want to grab the php files
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  411. # [15:32] <smaug____> zcorpan: where is the svn interface?
  412. # [15:33] <zcorpan> smaug____: same server i think
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  414. # [15:34] <smaug____> zcorpan: btw, does 1 out of 1 PASSED mean that all the tests pass?
  415. # [15:35] <smaug____> since if there are failures the result is something X out of 46 PASSED
  416. # [15:35] <zcorpan> smaug____: i guess, dunno
  417. # [15:36] <smaug____> there are also strange cases when assert_throws doesn't seem to detect exceptions properly
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  421. # [15:38] <zcorpan> smaug____: send email to annevk
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  432. # [15:50] <smaug____> zcorpan: apparently it should report more that 1 PASSED
  433. # [15:50] <smaug____> the testrunner doesn't seem to work properly in Opera atm
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  435. # [15:51] <smaug____> I need to click back to get it to run the tests
  436. # [15:57] <zcorpan> smaug____: ok
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  566. # [20:58] * AryehGregor keeps on confusing foolip with Philip` :(
  567. # [21:04] <Philip`> But we have totally different names :-p
  568. # [21:04] <Philip`> I have a "`", he doesn't
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  583. # [21:57] <Hixie> ok i'm back
  584. # [21:57] <Hixie> is anyone editing CORS these days?
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  587. # [22:19] <AryehGregor> Okay, so, what's a good company to look into getting a laptop from? Would probably be my primary computer, and I'd ultimately want Linux on it, probably with Windows in a VM. Is it reasonable to just look at someplace like Dell? What should I be looking for?
  588. # [22:20] <Hixie> what's your budget?
  589. # [22:20] <Hixie> that's really the dominating factor
  590. # [22:20] <AryehGregor> Well, I expect I'll be using it an awful lot, and don't expect to have lots of expenses anytime soon, so if a higher price tag will buy me features that are really useful then I'd be willing to go pretty high.
  591. # [22:20] <Hixie> if your budget is above $1000, something from the macbook line is probably the best option
  592. # [22:20] <AryehGregor> But I don't know what features are worth it.
  593. # [22:21] <Hixie> if it's below that, dunno
  594. # [22:22] <Philip`> Do you care about e.g. 3D graphics acceleration?
  595. # [22:22] <AryehGregor> I'm not really interested in going for Apple unless it's really clearly worth it. Also, Matthew Garrett always complains about how Linux doesn't work so well on Macs because of their nonstandard firmware.
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  597. # [22:22] <Hixie> the apple hardware is definitely worth it
  598. # [22:22] <Hixie> i haven't seen anything comparable in quality
  599. # [22:22] <Hixie> and the tech support is by far the best
  600. # [22:22] <AryehGregor> Well, I've gone for a pretty long time with no 3D graphics acceleration on my primary computer, because of lack of open-source driver support, so I wouldn't say it's necessary.
  601. # [22:23] <Hixie> can't speak for the linux compatibility
  602. # [22:23] <Philip`> Graphics cards usually seem to be a distinguishing factor between decent-but-cheap business-oriented laptops and much more expensive home-user/gamer ones
  603. # [22:24] <AryehGregor> Decent-but-cheap sounds okay to me.
  604. # [22:24] * Philip` uses a pretty cheap Lenovo laptop which was like a third of the price of a MacBook Pro, with similar CPU and RAM and disk
  605. # [22:25] <Philip`> (and a much less irritating keyboard)
  606. # [22:25] <AryehGregor> I'd mostly want battery life and lots of RAM, I imagine.
  607. # [22:25] <Philip`> (and a much worse screen)
  608. # [22:25] <AryehGregor> And known Linux compatibility, ideally.
  609. # [22:25] <Hixie> the lenovos were pretty good for linux back when they were thinkpads
  610. # [22:25] <Hixie> i used that for several years
  611. # [22:26] <Philip`> (and if it breaks then I can just buy a new one)
  612. # [22:26] <Philip`> (and in practice it's not broken more often than the MBP)
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  614. # [22:27] <Philip`> This isn't a ThinkPad-equivalent one, it's some cheaper range
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  616. # [22:27] <The_8472> <AryehGregor> Well, I expect I'll be using it an awful lot, and don't expect to have lots of expenses anytime soon, so if a higher price tag will buy me features that are really useful then I'd be willing to go pretty high. <- if you can afford it, get a SSD
  617. # [22:28] <Hixie> Philip`: ah
  618. # [22:28] <The_8472> laptop hard disks are practically the slowest part. getting a core 2 or even an i7 is affordable. a few gb of ram are cheap too... but the HDDs are the bottleneck. at least if you do developing work on it
  619. # [22:28] <AryehGregor> My workload is almost completely in-memory other than booting, so I'm not sure if I'd prefer the reduced disk space. Unless it has a small ancillary SSD.
  620. # [22:28] <AryehGregor> What sort of developing work uses the disk all the time? Compilation? I don't do that.
  621. # [22:28] <The_8472> well, nobody needs DVD drives anymore. kick the drive, add something useful into the bay
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  623. # [22:28] <Hixie> i can vouch for the perf benefits of SSD
  624. # [22:29] <Hixie> no spin-up time, faster seeks, it's just crazy what a difference it makes
  625. # [22:29] * Philip` wonders if HDD+SSD uses significantly more battery than either by itself
  626. # [22:29] <The_8472> AryehGregor, yeah... live compiling, automatic redeployment and stuff like that
  627. # [22:29] <AryehGregor> I had an Intel SSD in my desktop for a while, barely noticed the difference.
  628. # [22:29] <AryehGregor> Because I have 4 GB of RAM and never reboot.
  629. # [22:29] <AryehGregor> And have the same applications always open.
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  631. # [22:29] <The_8472> 4GB of ram? that's full after booting for me
  632. # [22:30] <The_8472> i need 8+
  633. # [22:30] <AryehGregor> So for a laptop, it might make a difference to hibernate time.
  634. # [22:30] <The_8472> but yeah, it depends on your usage patterns
  635. # [22:30] <AryehGregor> The_8472, I generally only have a browser, IRC, and terminal running.
  636. # [22:30] <The_8472> mhhh...
  637. # [22:30] <AryehGregor> Well, currently three browsers, 21 IRC windows, three terminal windows, plus OO.org Writer and Gnumeric.
  638. # [22:30] <AryehGregor> But I'm still way under 2 GB memory usage.
  639. # [22:31] <Philip`> Why hibernate?
  640. # [22:31] * Philip` always uses suspend-to-RAM which is instant
  641. # [22:31] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.246.16.181)
  642. # [22:31] * The_8472 has a 400+ tab browser session, 1 VM, 2 terminal windows, 2 java applications, irc, mail client, database workbench and a few other things open
  643. # [22:31] <AryehGregor> Doesn't it eventually hibernate to save more battery? Or is the difference small enough that it doesn't matter?
  644. # [22:32] <AryehGregor> My parents' Toshiba laptop with Windows 7 always hibernates eventually.
  645. # [22:32] <AryehGregor> (Even when plugged in, annoyingly.)
  646. # [22:32] <The_8472> you can configure that
  647. # [22:32] <AryehGregor> I know.
  648. # [22:32] <Philip`> I think it could last >20 hours in suspend on a full battery
  649. # [22:32] <AryehGregor> But I tend to assume defaults are sane until proven otherwise.
  650. # [22:32] <AryehGregor> Plus, it's not my laptop.
  651. # [22:32] <Philip`> and I never have it unplugged for more than about an hour
  652. # [22:32] <Hixie> Philip`: do you encrypt the disk?
  653. # [22:32] <The_8472> that's a faulty assumption
  654. # [22:32] <The_8472> windows defaults are always wrong.
  655. # [22:33] <Philip`> Hixie: No, but I'd probably notice if someone tried stealing it while suspended since I'm always carrying it
  656. # [22:34] <Hixie> if you don't encrypt the disk, suspend vs hybernate doesn't matter
  657. # [22:34] <Hixie> so nevermind :-)
  658. # [22:35] * Hixie really needs changes to CORS
  659. # [22:35] <Hixie> i need two new ways of invoking CORS
  660. # [22:36] * Quits: Jon47 (~jon47@204.56.125.50) (Quit: Leaving.)
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  663. # [22:37] <Hixie> one that doesn't send Origin headers but supports the CORS semantics including through redirects, and either returns the data origin-tainted if no CORS headers are in the final response, or blocks if they're present and disallow; or lets the data out untainted if they're present and alllowed
  664. # [22:37] <Hixie> and one that does regular simple CORS except with the tainted-but-allowed case if there's no header in the response
  665. # [22:37] <Hixie> and this all seems way more complicated than it should be
  666. # [22:38] <Hixie> which is bad for security
  667. # [22:38] * Quits: Martijnc (~Martijnc@d54C02C64.access.telenet.be) (Quit: Martijnc)
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  669. # [22:44] <zcorpan> hsivonen: apparently some people use <!--[if IE]><![endif]--><!doctype html> as a way to make ie not ignore x-ua-compatible despite having CCs before it
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  671. # [22:53] <zcorpan> myakura: woah, thanks, will fix
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  673. # [22:55] <othermaciej> Hixie: why do you need two modes?
  674. # [22:56] <Hixie> i may in fact not need those two modes
  675. # [22:56] <Hixie> i'm testing to see if browsers send origin with <video> currently
  676. # [22:56] <Hixie> the spec said they should, which is why i'd need two modes (<img> doesn't)
  677. # [22:57] <Hixie> looks like they don't though
  678. # [22:57] <Hixie> so maybe i can treat <img> and <video> exactly the same
  679. # [22:57] <Hixie> that'd be convenient
  680. # [23:00] * Quits: linclark (~clark@c-67-186-35-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Quit: linclark)
  681. # [23:00] <othermaciej> Hixie: incidentally, do you have any opinion on whether new resource embedding interfaces should be same-origin-only by default?
  682. # [23:01] <othermaciej> (with CORS exception)
  683. # [23:01] <Hixie> i think it very much depends on the type of resource in question
  684. # [23:01] <othermaciej> the case where this is relevant currently is @font-face
  685. # [23:01] <Hixie> i don't really see how fonts can contain origin-sensitive data (though we do currently taint the canvas when cross-origin fonts are used)
  686. # [23:01] <othermaciej> when I say "embedding", I mean to imply an inactive resource, and no ability to read back the contents, just to use it
  687. # [23:02] <Hixie> you can read back the contents of a font
  688. # [23:02] <Hixie> character presence, width, and height, at a minimum
  689. # [23:02] <Hixie> if we didn't taint the canvas, you could further obtain character pixel data
  690. # [23:03] <othermaciej> Mozilla folks argue that all new resource types should be same-origin-only by default, because that protects against hot linking and is easier for authors
  691. # [23:03] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@206.217.92.186) (Quit: miketaylr)
  692. # [23:03] <othermaciej> some others (me included) tend to argue that it's better to match existing resource types even if there is a new model that is arguably better but not backwards-compatible
  693. # [23:04] <Hixie> it's not clear to me that hot linking needs protecting against, and it's certainly not easier for authors to require CORS as far as i can tell
  694. # [23:04] <Hixie> but i think it depends entirely on the resource type
  695. # [23:04] <Hixie> it's not something for which i think it makes sense to have a default
  696. # [23:04] <othermaciej> Mozilla event wanted to make video same-origin-only until that turned out to be impractical
  697. # [23:04] <Hixie> video data can be quite sensitive
  698. # [23:04] <Hixie> i think that one _should_ have been same-origin by default
  699. # [23:05] <Hixie> indeed the spec still says it is, though i'm fixing that as we speak
  700. # [23:07] <Hixie> hsivonen, roc: in case this isn't known, <video> in Gecko seems to sprout a tabindex="0" attribute out of nowhere
  701. # [23:07] * zcorpan noticed that years ago
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  705. # [23:13] * Quits: matjas (~matjas@91.182.202.169) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  706. # [23:13] * AryehGregor noticed that in his execCommand() tests too
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  714. # [23:31] <Hixie> when anne gets back i think he and i need to speak about making a spec that merges all the fetch and cors stuff into one single algorithm
  715. # [23:31] <Hixie> this is just crazy
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  720. # Session Close: Sat May 21 00:00:00 2011

The end :)