/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2011-06-07 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Jun 07 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  5. # [00:05] <sicking> Hixie: ping
  6. # [00:05] <Hixie> yo
  7. # [00:06] <sicking> Hixie: why does the websockets API spec say this: "Act as if the user agent had received a set-cookie-string for the document's address, consisting of the cookies set during the server's opening handshake"?
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  9. # [00:06] <Hixie> sicking: you mean, why is it phrased that way, why is that requirement there, or something else?
  10. # [00:06] <sicking> Hixie: doesn't that mean that if site A opens a websocket to site B, then site B can set cookies for A's domain
  11. # [00:07] <Hixie> ah, you mean "why is it bogus"
  12. # [00:07] <Hixie> uh yeah i suck
  13. # [00:07] <Hixie> let me fix that
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  31. # [00:22] <Hixie> sicking: fixed (should be up in a few seconds)
  32. # [00:22] <sicking> Hixie: thanks!
  33. # [00:23] <Hixie> np
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  47. # [00:52] <heycam> Hixie, can you tell me what I need to build the Web Applications spec?
  48. # [00:52] <Hixie> "build"?
  49. # [00:52] <heycam> convert source to index
  50. # [00:52] <Hixie> my password to log in to my machine, probably
  51. # [00:52] <heycam> and complete.html I guess
  52. # [00:52] <heycam> oh :(
  53. # [00:52] <Hixie> it's a huge rube goldberg machine
  54. # [00:53] <Hixie> invokes multiple other hosts, scripts, all kinds of things
  55. # [00:53] <Hixie> i can probably generate you a version if you need something though
  56. # [00:53] <Hixie> what's up
  57. # [00:53] <heycam> oh I was just going to work on the patch for the nullable web idl thing
  58. # [00:53] <Hixie> aah
  59. # [00:54] <heycam> it's probably not vital to be able to build it
  60. # [00:54] <heycam> since I probably won't be editing anything magical, just plain content
  61. # [00:54] <Hixie> if you need to review the output i can regen the spec, just mail me the diffs or whatever
  62. # [00:54] <heycam> and the idl fragments
  63. # [00:54] <heycam> ok, sure
  64. # [00:54] <Hixie> the file is html though, you can open it as is if you stick an HTML header on the top of it
  65. # [00:54] <Hixie> should work fine
  66. # [00:54] <heycam> ok
  67. # [00:54] <heycam> cool
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  69. # [00:55] <Hixie> copy http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/header-whatwg-html onto its head
  70. # [00:55] <Hixie> should give you something to work with
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  72. # [00:55] <heycam> k
  73. # [00:55] <Hixie> don't hesitate to ask if i can help in any way
  74. # [00:56] <Hixie> i'm eager to make this easy for you :-)
  75. # [00:56] <heycam> sure :)
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  83. # [01:20] <heycam> does anyone implement cssElementMap yet?
  84. # [01:20] <Hixie> dunno, tabatkins would know
  85. # [01:21] <heycam> that was for the element() thing, yeah?
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  88. # [01:25] <heycam> hi TabAtkins
  89. # [01:25] <Hixie> wow that was good timing
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  91. # [01:25] <heycam> I assume you telepathically paged him or something
  92. # [01:25] <heycam> (with your google brain implants)
  93. # [01:26] <Hixie> no, i went to the loo.
  94. # [01:26] <Hixie> so...
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  108. # [02:02] <heycam> Hixie, fwiw there are two instances of "initialised" in the document
  109. # [02:02] <Hixie> where?
  110. # [02:02] <Hixie> oh wait
  111. # [02:02] <Hixie> i was narrowed on the websockets section
  112. # [02:02] <Hixie> fixed
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  117. # [02:13] <heycam> Hixie, createPattern is defined to throw a TYPE_MISMATCH_ERR if you give it an element that's not img/canvas/video. Web IDL already makes it so that a TypeError will be thrown, though.
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  122. # [02:13] <heycam> so if it's necessary that TYPE_MISMATCH_ERR is thrown, you may have to widen the argument type (and remove the overloading)
  123. # [02:14] <Hixie> heycam: TYPE_MISMATCH_ERR only fires for null
  124. # [02:14] <Hixie> heycam: i don't mind if you change that so webidl fires TypeError
  125. # [02:15] <heycam> Hixie, great, will do
  126. # [02:15] <heycam> there are only a couple of instances where I'm making these changes to throw TypeError instead of throwing some DOMException
  127. # [02:15] <heycam> you can let me know if any of them can't be done for compat reasons
  128. # [02:15] <heycam> (but I would be surprised if particular exception types were relied on)
  129. # [02:16] <Hixie> mention them here and i'll let you know if any are problematic
  130. # [02:16] <heycam> ok
  131. # [02:16] <Hixie> but i'm gonna guess they're all fine
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  237. # [08:40] <zcorpan> ah so now websocket.onerror is not for bogus frames but for "fail the websocket connection"
  238. # [08:43] <zcorpan> Hixie: for us following along at home, what's the rationale for the new onerror?
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  244. # [09:06] <Hixie> zcorpan: ian asked me to expose the case where the connection closed because the client closed the connection due to an error.
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  246. # [09:08] <zcorpan> ok
  247. # [09:08] <hsivonen> zcorpan: V.nu doesn't implement the microdata check you asked about
  248. # [09:09] <zcorpan> hsivonen: ok. any plans?
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  256. # [09:22] <hsivonen> zcorpan: only vague plans. nothing concretely scheduled
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  321. # [12:01] <kost-bebix> Hi everyone! I just wanted to ask about sanitization sules http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Sanitization_rules . I mean, for example -- the "style" attribute.
  322. # [12:01] <kost-bebix> That's not safe from XSS, isn't it?
  323. # [12:01] <kost-bebix> So what's the purpose of that sanitization rules?
  324. # [12:03] <kost-bebix> Or should that "style" be removed?
  325. # [12:21] <jgraham> In some versions of IE you can include script in style rules
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  334. # [12:42] <hsivonen> jgraham: also in Gecko
  335. # [12:42] <hsivonen> via XBL
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  337. # [12:43] <jgraham> hsivonen: Oh, nice
  338. # [12:43] <hsivonen> which is why we need to sanitize styles in pastes to contenteditable
  339. # [12:45] <kost-bebix> jgraham: oh, got it
  340. # [12:45] <kost-bebix> we're in safe
  341. # [12:45] <kost-bebix> html5lib also parses "style" attribute
  342. # [12:45] <kost-bebix> so your css-expressions and other stuff will be sanitized
  343. # [12:56] <jgraham> Yes
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  354. # [13:22] <hsivonen> turns out that there are now very, very few rel keywords in the old registry that aren't already in the new registry and meet the registration requirements
  355. # [13:22] <hsivonen> I'm going to register those few rel keywords
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  362. # [13:37] <hsivonen> what's the deal with W3C specs that define rel keywords making those sections informative rather than normative?
  363. # [13:37] <hsivonen> FAIL
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  366. # [13:40] <jgraham> Some W3C groups are surprisingly poor at writing specs
  367. # [13:40] <jgraham> Which is surprising given that is the whole point of them existing
  368. # [13:44] <hsivonen> also, a bunch of the old registrations linked to a spec that defined the format of the resoure the link was supposed to point to but didn't spec the rel keyword at all
  369. # [13:45] <hsivonen> I didn't reregister those.
  370. # [13:45] <hsivonen> since they failed the requirements
  371. # [13:45] <hsivonen> since the claimed spec didn't actually say anything about the rel keyword
  372. # [13:45] <hsivonen> not even informatively
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  374. # [13:49] <kost-bebix> I need to modify sanitizer a little to allow youtube video's embed. Hope I'll find out how to do that safety))
  375. # [13:49] <kost-bebix> s/safety/safely/
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  378. # [13:53] <hsivonen> zcorpan: thanks for fixing the wikis regarding registry usability
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  380. # [14:03] <karlcow> hsivonen: @forstall said that "“we took Apple's Safari engine and open-sourced it”" at a specific recorded place?
  381. # [14:03] <karlcow> cf http://twitter.com/hsivonen/status/78065920316153856
  382. # [14:03] <hsivonen> karlcow: in the official keynote recording. I didn't make note of the timecode
  383. # [14:03] <karlcow> wiiiiiz
  384. # [14:04] <karlcow> thanks
  385. # [14:04] <hsivonen> karlcow: but I rewinded to make sure I heard it right
  386. # [14:04] <karlcow> khtml community must be happy
  387. # [14:05] <Workshiva> karlcow: Imagine if Apple hadn't opensourced it, then khtml would be stealing Apple's code!
  388. # [14:05] <karlcow> heh
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  492. # [19:23] <jgraham> Hmm, the latest Device Orientation spec specifies that a compassneedscalibartion event is only fired if there are event listeners registered for the deviceorientation event
  493. # [19:23] <jgraham> This seems bad, but I'm not really sure what to suggest
  494. # [19:24] <jgraham> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/geo/api/spec-source-orientation.html?rev=1.22;content-type=text%2Fhtml
  495. # [19:24] <Ms2ger> I'd suggest "Don't do that"
  496. # [19:24] <zewt> that sounds similar to the webgl stuff that was fixed recently, the sort of thing people who don't understand dom events spec
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  498. # [19:25] <zewt> awkward-looking spec...
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  500. # [19:25] <zewt> yeah this is just backwards and needs the same fix webgl did
  501. # [19:25] <jgraham> The spec improved at lot in the last revision :)
  502. # [19:25] <jgraham> What fix did WebGL do?
  503. # [19:25] <zewt> well, maybe not, hmm
  504. # [19:26] <zewt> webgl had something like "if anything is listening for this event, lost contexts are automatically restored", which is the same thing--a side-effect of event registration (bad)
  505. # [19:28] <zewt> the fix was to make it "if you want to restore the event, cancel the event", which is a little odd but a lot saner
  506. # [19:28] <zewt> similar here would be "if you want to display the calibration UI, cancel the event"
  507. # [19:28] <zewt> it's odd for cancellation to *cause* something rather than to stop the default handler, but registration itself having side-effects is broken
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  534. # [20:25] <AryehGregor> When I run this in Opera 11.11, hitting backspace will sometimes decide to navigate backwards in history: http://aryeh.name/spec/editcommands/backspacetest.html
  535. # [20:25] <AryehGregor> Doesn't seem to happen in other browsers.
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  549. # [20:46] <jgraham> AryehGregor: Hmm, well it didn't for me, but I assume it is a race condition
  550. # [20:46] <AryehGregor> What sort of race condition might it be?
  551. # [20:46] <jgraham> If you hit it fast enough it might navigate before the editable content is focused, or something
  552. # [20:46] * jgraham hasn't looked at the source
  553. # [20:47] <AryehGregor> I'm hitting it quite slowly.
  554. # [20:47] * AryehGregor tries clearing the cache and doing it again
  555. # [20:47] * gsnedders couldn't reproduce it
  556. # [20:47] <jgraham> (what's the "store new result" stuff?)
  557. # [20:48] <AryehGregor> Oh, now it works.
  558. # [20:48] <AryehGregor> Maybe I changed the code at some point.
  559. # [20:48] <AryehGregor> jgraham, the second column is the results my spec say should happen. I use it for regression-testing the spec. If you store the new result, it will put it in localStorage, and on subsequent runs will alert you if the new result differs from the old.
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  561. # [20:49] <AryehGregor> It will also alert for random other things, like if the DOM doesn't round-trip through text/html serialization.
  562. # [20:50] <jgraham> Oh, it is local-only
  563. # [20:51] <AryehGregor> Yeah.
  564. # [20:51] <AryehGregor> I've somewhat thought of making it centralized, because that way I don't have to reconfirm new results separately on every browser I use.
  565. # [20:51] <AryehGregor> But it seems like too much hassle for the benefit.
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  577. # [21:38] <jgraham> Huh. The W3C is planning to release the author-only view of the HTML5 draft as a seperate normative document?
  578. # [21:38] <jgraham> That seems... confusing
  579. # [21:39] <Philip`> What could possibly go wrong with two separate documents normatively specifying the same subject?
  580. # [21:39] <Ms2ger> They need a replacement for HTML4, I guess
  581. # [21:45] <jgraham> 1
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  597. # [22:51] * jwalden wonders where rel="archives" went, or if it was ever present
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  602. # [22:57] <Philip`> jwalden: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11486
  603. # [22:58] <jwalden> hm, why is that complaining it's hidden? and why am I not getting prompted for a member login or somesuch, which I could provide?
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  606. # [22:59] <Philip`> jwalden: Doesn't look hidden to me
  607. # [22:59] <jwalden> strange; I get the " Sorry, Insufficient Access Privileges" page
  608. # [23:00] * jwalden tunnels somewhere to retry
  609. # [23:00] * paul_irish is now known as paul_irish_
  610. # [23:01] <jwalden> bizarre
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  613. # [23:01] <jwalden> it works from an MIT IP address, but not from the Mozilla network
  614. # [23:02] * jwalden tries asking IT about it
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  617. # [23:09] <jgraham> It's an evil conspiracy to block Mozilla from W3C!
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  625. # [23:23] * Joins: kor (~kor@a83-161-211-173.adsl.xs4all.nl)
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  627. # [23:24] * Quits: kor (~kor@a83-161-211-173.adsl.xs4all.nl) (Client Quit)
  628. # [23:25] * Joins: ttepasse (~ttepasse@ip-109-90-161-169.unitymediagroup.de)
  629. # [23:27] * bga_ is now known as bga_|away
  630. # [23:38] * bga_|away is now known as bga_
  631. # [23:45] <jamesr> doesn't work for me either
  632. # [23:55] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@192.42.249.62) (Quit: othermaciej)
  633. # [23:56] <jwalden> heh, that almost makes me wonder if it only works from MIT (W3C being there)
  634. # [23:57] <jwalden> nope, works from a dreamhost server
  635. # Session Close: Wed Jun 08 00:00:00 2011

The end :)