/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2012-01-30 / end

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  72. # [03:19] <benjoffe> I noticed a broken link in this spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-3d-transforms/#animation
  73. # [03:19] <benjoffe> "the values are first converted to a 4x4 matrix, then decomposed using the method described by unmatrix"
  74. # [03:20] <benjoffe> links to a 404: http://tog.acm.org/GraphicsGems/gemsii/unmatrix.c
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  80. # [03:31] <bencc> if a websocket fails due to a proxy problem, will it fail immediately or will the browser wait for a timeout?
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  133. # [06:50] <Hixie> anyone know if the websocket spec is written assuming high-bit first or low-bit first?
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  135. # [06:50] <Hixie> i can't find anything in the spec that defines it
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  140. # [06:57] <Hixie> oh nm, it does say "the most significant bit is the leftmost in the ABNF"
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  160. # [08:19] <boblet> re: the i element’s definition, why does “an idiomatic phrase from another language” contain “idiomatic”? shouldn’t that be “transliterated” instead? cc: Hixie
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  190. # [09:14] <Hixie> boblet: it means things like "de facto" as used by english speakers
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  193. # [09:19] <boblet> Hixie: while the current defn is nicely language-agnostic, it seems to rule out non-idiomatic foreign language transliteration in English, which I suspect is the major “traditional” use of italics
  194. # [09:19] <boblet> woah, let me rephrase that :)
  195. # [09:19] <boblet> … use of italics for foreign language words in English
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  197. # [09:21] <boblet> Hixie: I’m also assuming that non-transliterated words (eg Chinese, Hebrew etc in native script) should use <span lang=""> over <i lang="">
  198. # [09:25] <Hixie> yes for the second
  199. # [09:25] <Hixie> not sure about the first, but if you have examples of it, file a bug, it's worth looking at for sure
  200. # [09:25] <Hixie> afk for a bit now
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  240. # [11:00] <zcorpan> Ms2ger: isn't "URL" in implementations prefixed?
  241. # [11:00] <Ms2ger> Not for create* in Gecko
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  243. # [11:02] <zcorpan> i thought create* were methods on URL
  244. # [11:02] <zcorpan> and URL was mozURL in gecko
  245. # [11:03] <bencc> when a websocket fails due to a bad proxy server, will it fail immediately or will it timeout?
  246. # [11:03] <zcorpan> note i didn't suggest to rename createObjectURL
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  250. # [11:04] <zcorpan> bencc: i guess it depends on how the proxy is being bad
  251. # [11:04] <zcorpan> bencc: e.g. if the client can't establish a connection to the proxy, it should fail immediately
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  253. # [11:05] <Ms2ger> Eh?
  254. # [11:06] <zcorpan> bencc: but if the client can connect to the proxy and send the request, but then the proxy doesn't send a response back to the client for some reason, then the client can't know that it failed so will timeout
  255. # [11:06] <zcorpan> Ms2ger: maybe i'm missing something
  256. # [11:06] <Ms2ger> So in Gecko we've basically got partial interface Window { [replaceable] readonly attribute URLProp URL; }; interface URLProp { createObjectURL(); };
  257. # [11:07] <Ms2ger> I think the actual URL API hasn't landed yet
  258. # [11:07] <bencc> zcorpan: is it possible that the proxy will not respond?
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  260. # [11:07] <bencc> zcorpan: I'm referring to the proxy issues with non ssl websockets
  261. # [11:07] <bencc> zcorpan: if the proxy has a normal failure, long-polling will suffer from it as well so I'm not worry about it
  262. # [11:07] <Ms2ger> Or are you suggesting to spec it like that instead of the silly static methods we've got now?
  263. # [11:08] <bencc> zcorpan: I'm trying to understand how to implement the fallback to long-polling
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  265. # [11:08] <bencc> zcorpan: socket.io saves the fact that ws failed in a cookie so they won't try it again
  266. # [11:08] <bencc> zcorpan: but if it fails immediately I'm not going to worry about it at all
  267. # [11:09] <zcorpan> Ms2ger: so gecko shipped window.URL but made it replaceable. i see. i thought it was called mozURL
  268. # [11:09] <bencc> zcorpan: I've tried with nginx which doesn't support ws and it fails immediately but I'm not sure if that's how all proxies will behave
  269. # [11:10] <Ms2ger> No, the parts that are in the URL spec are prefixed, but I don't think it landed yet
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  271. # [11:15] <zcorpan> Ms2ger: http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/1311 - window.URL is defined in my gecko nightly
  272. # [11:16] <Ms2ger> Yes
  273. # [11:16] <Ms2ger> And it's an instance of MozURLProperty or whatever we called it
  274. # [11:16] <zcorpan> sure
  275. # [11:17] <zcorpan> what i was trying to say was that i thought it was prefixed
  276. # [11:17] <zcorpan> and it wasn't
  277. # [11:17] <Ms2ger> Indeed it isn't
  278. # [11:19] <zcorpan> although webkit doesn't have URL but has webkitURL
  279. # [11:20] <zcorpan> and opera/ie don't have either, right?
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  282. # [11:20] <zcorpan> i dunno, but my gut suggests that it's still possible to change the name
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  285. # [11:22] <Ms2ger> Maybe... We shipped it like 8 version ago, though ;)
  286. # [11:22] <zcorpan> bencc: i remember a case being reported with proxies not responding with an earlier version of the handshake
  287. # [11:23] <zcorpan> bencc: i think -00
  288. # [11:23] <zcorpan> bencc: because they wanted complete http requests, and the random bytes wasn't a complete http request, so it wasn't forwarded
  289. # [11:24] <zcorpan> bencc: so the server couldn't send a response back
  290. # [11:24] <bencc> zcorpan: now that I think about it, you can also have a problem with enterprise firewall which might just drop the packate
  291. # [11:24] <bencc> zcorpan: am I right?
  292. # [11:25] <zcorpan> bencc: dunno
  293. # [11:25] <zcorpan> but it seems reasonable to assume that a proxy might not respond for some reason
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  391. # [15:42] <boblet> Hixie: here’s the overly detailed bug report re: italics and transliterated foreign words https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=15786
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  404. # [16:04] <crankharder> why is this manifest file redirecing my 404/500 redirects to the fallback route?
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  478. # [18:15] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
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  492. # [18:37] <AryehGregor> In WebKit, adding an iframe to the document onload of some other iframe doesn't seem to further delay the load event. :(
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  522. # [19:33] <crankharder> why is this manifest file redirecing my 404/500 redirects to the fallback route?
  523. # [19:34] <crankharder> http://pastie.org/3283796
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  530. # [19:46] <Velmont> So. Looking at IndexedDB. Firefox accepts arrays as keyPaths. Like: keyPath: ['key', 'a'].
  531. # [19:46] <Velmont> I can't really see that in the spec, I've been looking for days.
  532. # [19:46] <Velmont> Is it a bug in Gecko, or am I overlooking something?
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  536. # [19:53] <Ms2ger> "If the optionalParameters argument is specified and has a keyPath property which is not undefined or null, then set keyPath to the value of this property. If keyPath is an Array, then each item in the array is converted to a string. If keyPath is not an Array, it is converted to a string. "
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  538. # [19:55] <Velmont> Ms2ger: Ah, yes, that's why I started the look in the first place. I was starting to wonder why I was looking for arrays as key paths at all.
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  544. # [20:02] <Velmont> So then I remember my original question, -- it's not really clear how the keypath as array is used later in the operations. http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/IndexedDB/raw-file/tip/Overview.html#dfn-steps-for-storing-a-record-into-an-object-store says If store does use in-line keys and evaluting store's key path on value does yield a value, then set key to that result. --- which is okay, the key returned might be an array.
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  549. # [20:09] <Velmont> But following the links to the evaluating steps it's not clear to me that it handles an array.
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  552. # [20:09] <Velmont> for indexes there is an explicit mention: If index's key path is an Array, then set index key to a newly created empty Array. For each item in index's key path evaluate the item on value. If this does not yield a value don't take any further actions for this index. Otherwise add the value to the end of the index key Array.
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  575. # [20:56] <crankharder> how long does local storage persist as long as the user doesn't remove it?
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  585. # [21:07] <TabAtkins> crankharder: As long as cookies do - until the browser decides to evict it.
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  605. # [21:35] <AryehGregor> Ugh, IE9 doesn't support <img src='data:image/svg+xml,...'>?
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  608. # [21:35] <Ms2ger> Hah
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  610. # [21:36] <Ms2ger> IE9 supports what's required in acid2, from what I recall
  611. # [21:36] <AryehGregor> Or maybe it just refuses to accept it if it's not base64-encoded or something?
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  613. # [21:37] <AryehGregor> "A text-representation of the data of the resource, where content is represented as URL-allowed characters. Unsafe characters must be percent-encoded. If sBase64Encoding is set, the data must be Base64 encoded; otherwise, the data is assumed to be represented in ASCII encoding." http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ie/cc848897(v=vs.85).aspx
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  628. # [21:56] <AryehGregor> Okay, why does the blue box not paint on top of the orange one here? <!doctype html><div style="height:100px;width:100px;background:blue;z-index:1"></div><div style="height:100px;width:100px;background:orange;position:relative;bottom:50px"></div>
  629. # [21:57] <AryehGregor> Shouldn't z-index: 1 put it on top?
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  631. # [21:57] <AryehGregor> Putting z-index:-1 on the second div seems to do what I want . . .
  632. # [21:57] <AryehGregor> Oh, stacking only applies to positioned boxes.
  633. # [21:57] <AryehGregor> Got it.
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  674. # [23:30] <Hixie> TabAtkins: what's the status on @global?
  675. # [23:31] <Hixie> TabAtkins: (the <style scoped> @-rule for making selectors also be allowed to consider elements outside the scope)
  676. # [23:35] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
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  678. # [23:36] <TabAtkins> Hixie: Nobody's worked on it, or on addressing scoped styles within CSS at all.
  679. # [23:36] <Hixie> k
  680. # [23:36] <Hixie> guess i'll just stick a temporary spec in html then
  681. # [23:37] <TabAtkins> Ping www-style with it.
  682. # [23:37] <Hixie> k
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The end :)