/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2012-04-16 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Mon Apr 16 00:00:01 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:06] * Quits: necolas (~necolas@b0fbedcf.bb.sky.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  4. # [00:35] * Quits: dbaron__ (~dbaron@50.0.192.105) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  5. # [00:39] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@50.0.192.105)
  6. # [00:49] * Quits: tomasf (~tom@2002:55e5:dbb7:0:20b9:5fda:3cc5:36cd) (Quit: tomasf)
  7. # [01:08] * Quits: FACEFOX (~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  8. # [01:09] * Joins: FACEFOX (~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net)
  9. # [01:15] * Quits: FACEFOX (~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  10. # [01:17] * Joins: rniwa (~rniwa@216.239.45.130)
  11. # [01:18] * Joins: FACEFOX (~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net)
  12. # [01:19] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  13. # [01:28] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@2620:149:4:1b01:25e4:2248:f68f:2e0e)
  14. # [01:44] * Quits: tndrH (~Rob@cpc16-seac19-2-0-cust234.7-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.1/2008072406])
  15. # [01:45] * Joins: schnoomac (~schnoodle@melbourne.99cluster.com)
  16. # [02:04] * Quits: rniwa (~rniwa@216.239.45.130) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  17. # [02:04] * Joins: rniwa (~rniwa@216.239.45.130)
  18. # [02:06] * Quits: eric_carlson (~ericc@adsl-67-112-12-110.dsl.anhm01.pacbell.net) (Quit: eric_carlson)
  19. # [02:09] * Quits: drublic (~drublic@frbg-4d028ded.pool.mediaWays.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  20. # [02:10] * Quits: twisted` (~twisted@p5DDBB14D.dip.t-dialin.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  21. # [02:12] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@c-24-6-209-189.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: othermaciej)
  22. # [02:12] * Joins: twisted` (~twisted@p5DDBBF93.dip.t-dialin.net)
  23. # [02:13] * Quits: RobbertAtWork (~Robbert@2001:980:9368:1:1176:952f:7780:1fd4) (Quit: RobbertAtWork)
  24. # [02:14] * Joins: RobbertAtWork (~Robbert@212.238.236.229)
  25. # [02:14] * Quits: RobbertAtWork (~Robbert@212.238.236.229) (Client Quit)
  26. # [02:17] * Joins: eric_carlson (~ericc@adsl-67-112-12-110.dsl.anhm01.pacbell.net)
  27. # [02:20] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@c-24-6-209-189.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  28. # [02:41] * Joins: demet8 (~demet8@67.8.186.94)
  29. # [02:51] * Joins: Druid_ (~Druid@p5B13732C.dip.t-dialin.net)
  30. # [02:52] * Quits: Druide__ (~Druid@p5B1369A9.dip.t-dialin.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  31. # [03:01] * Joins: yuuki (~kobayashi@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
  32. # [03:02] * Joins: yutak (~yutak@2401:fa00:4:1004:baac:6fff:fe99:adfb)
  33. # [03:08] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@c-24-6-209-189.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: othermaciej)
  34. # [03:09] * Quits: danja (~danny@host46-207-dynamic.8-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Read error: Connection timed out)
  35. # [03:11] * Joins: danja (~danny@host46-207-dynamic.8-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
  36. # [03:13] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@c-24-6-209-189.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  37. # [03:14] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@50.0.192.105) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  38. # [03:17] * Quits: kalc4 (~kalc4@host-92-25-196-220.as13285.net) (Quit: kalc4)
  39. # [03:40] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@2620:149:4:1b01:25e4:2248:f68f:2e0e) (Quit: weinig)
  40. # [04:03] * Quits: niftylettuce (u2733@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bxqzugmzrxyiguqx) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  41. # [04:03] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@75-144-246-6-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  42. # [04:18] * toyoshiAw is now known as toyoshim
  43. # [04:20] <Hixie> anyone know if any browser supports accesskey on non-focusable elements?
  44. # [04:26] <Hixie> hm, it suddenly started working, wtf
  45. # [04:32] <jcranmer> computers are like that
  46. # [04:33] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com)
  47. # [04:37] * Joins: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@114-42-60-102.dynamic.hinet.net)
  48. # [04:51] * Quits: yutak (~yutak@2401:fa00:4:1004:baac:6fff:fe99:adfb) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  49. # [04:52] * Quits: twisted` (~twisted@p5DDBBF93.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  50. # [05:05] * Joins: nessy (~Adium@124-168-15-68.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  51. # [05:07] * Joins: beverloo_ (~beverloo@c-67-188-232-126.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  52. # [05:15] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  53. # [05:18] * Joins: jacobolu_ (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  54. # [05:21] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  55. # [05:27] * jacobolu_ is now known as jacobolus
  56. # [05:28] * Joins: sarro (~sarro@i5E864980.versanet.de)
  57. # [05:34] * Quits: hij1nx (~hij1nx@cpe-98-14-168-178.nyc.res.rr.com) (Quit: hij1nx)
  58. # [05:44] * Quits: Jedi_ (~Jedi@jedi.org) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  59. # [05:44] * Joins: Jedi_ (~Jedi@jedi.org)
  60. # [05:53] * Joins: izhak (~izhak@213.87.241.18)
  61. # [06:02] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  62. # [06:03] * Joins: Yudai__ (~Yudai@nttkyo218132.tkyo.nt.ngn2.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp)
  63. # [06:04] * Quits: Yudai_ (~Yudai@p4ab4ee.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  64. # [06:18] * Quits: timmywil (~timmywil@host-68-169-154-67.WISOLT2.epbfi.com) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  65. # [06:25] * Quits: beverloo_ (~beverloo@c-67-188-232-126.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: beverloo_)
  66. # [06:37] * Joins: LBP (~Mirc@pD9EB1EB8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  67. # [06:43] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Quit: Make the road by walking. (B-side: Tired of Fighting))
  68. # [06:48] * Quits: sarro (~sarro@i5E864980.versanet.de)
  69. # [06:55] * Joins: myakura (~myakura@FL1-119-243-157-97.tky.mesh.ad.jp)
  70. # [07:00] * Quits: eric_carlson (~ericc@adsl-67-112-12-110.dsl.anhm01.pacbell.net) (Quit: eric_carlson)
  71. # [07:03] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  72. # [07:06] * Joins: hij1nx (~hij1nx@cpe-98-14-168-178.nyc.res.rr.com)
  73. # [07:06] * Quits: hij1nx (~hij1nx@cpe-98-14-168-178.nyc.res.rr.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  74. # [07:15] * Joins: Areks (~Areks@rs.gridnine.com)
  75. # [07:16] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  76. # [07:16] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  77. # [07:49] * Quits: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  78. # [07:51] * Joins: maikmerten (~merten@ls5dhcp200.cs.uni-dortmund.de)
  79. # [07:55] * Joins: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01)
  80. # [08:15] * Joins: dirkpennings (~dirkpenni@90-145-26-140.bbserv.nl)
  81. # [08:23] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  82. # [08:24] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-5eeaaa3e-74736162.cust.telenor.se)
  83. # [08:26] * Joins: tomasf (~tomasf@77.72.97.5.c.fiberdirekt.net)
  84. # [08:35] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  85. # [08:43] * Quits: graememcc (~chatzilla@host86-147-203-185.range86-147.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 11.0/20120310193349])
  86. # [08:48] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert@93-103-90-17.dynamic.t-2.net)
  87. # [09:00] * Joins: RobbertAtWork (~Robbert@212.238.236.229)
  88. # [09:01] * Joins: gwicke (~gabriel@212.255.28.33)
  89. # [09:01] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert@93-103-90-17.dynamic.t-2.net) (Quit: sedovsek)
  90. # [09:02] * Joins: nesta_ (~nesta_@37.Red-81-36-68.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
  91. # [09:07] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@50.0.192.105)
  92. # [09:11] * Joins: skylamer` (cgskylamer@78.90.213.55)
  93. # [09:17] * schnoomac is now known as schnoodles
  94. # [09:19] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-5eeaaa3e-74736162.cust.telenor.se) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  95. # [09:24] * Quits: dirkpennings (~dirkpenni@90-145-26-140.bbserv.nl)
  96. # [09:24] * Quits: Dashiva (Dashiva@wikia/Dashiva)
  97. # [09:25] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert@93-103-90-17.dynamic.t-2.net)
  98. # [09:26] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@50.0.192.105) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  99. # [09:27] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert@93-103-90-17.dynamic.t-2.net) (Client Quit)
  100. # [09:27] * Joins: Dashiva (Dashiva@84-72-44-85.dclient.hispeed.ch)
  101. # [09:27] * Quits: Dashiva (Dashiva@84-72-44-85.dclient.hispeed.ch) (Changing host)
  102. # [09:27] * Joins: Dashiva (Dashiva@wikia/Dashiva)
  103. # [09:28] * Quits: kenneth__ (kenneth@nat/nokia/x-hfanahxgjrlhjctb) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  104. # [09:32] * Quits: skylamer` (cgskylamer@78.90.213.55)
  105. # [09:33] * Joins: charlvn (~charlvn@2002:8259:81f2::1)
  106. # [09:33] * Joins: mishunov (~spliter@77.88.72.162)
  107. # [09:34] * Quits: nesta_ (~nesta_@37.Red-81-36-68.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) (Quit: nesta_)
  108. # [09:36] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-5eeaaa3e-74736162.cust.telenor.se)
  109. # [09:36] <zcorpan> Ms2ger: in quirks mode, red. otherwise, the link's color
  110. # [09:37] <zcorpan> http://simon.html5.org/specs/quirks-mode#the-font-element-text-decoration-color-quirk
  111. # [09:38] <zcorpan> some browsers make that quirk conditional on the color attribute and its value, but i thought that was pointless so didn't spec it
  112. # [09:38] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@GGYYKMMDCCCXCVI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)
  113. # [09:39] <zcorpan> iirc webkit has this quirk in all modes
  114. # [09:43] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@GGYYKMMDCCCXCVI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  115. # [09:44] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: http://qa-dev.w3.org:8888/?doc=data%3Atext%2Fhtml%3Bcharset%3Dutf-8%2C%3C%21doctype%2520html%3E%250D%250A%3Ctitle%3E%3C%252Ftitle%3E%250D%250A%3Cinput%2520type%253Dimage%2520value%253Dfoo%2520alt%253Dbar%3E&showsource=yes
  116. # [09:45] * Quits: schnoodles (~schnoodle@melbourne.99cluster.com) (Quit: schnoodles)
  117. # [09:45] <zcorpan> woah
  118. # [09:45] <zcorpan> quite the message
  119. # [09:45] <MikeSmith> yeah, verbose
  120. # [09:45] <zcorpan> tl;dr? :-)
  121. # [09:46] <MikeSmith> well, the existing message takes up the same amount of vertical space
  122. # [09:46] <zcorpan> but maybe it's good enough for noscript users, and then you can shave off the non-interesting bits with a script
  123. # [09:46] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com) (Quit: Leaving...)
  124. # [09:47] <MikeSmith> not sure it makes sense to do that actually
  125. # [09:47] <zcorpan> maybe not
  126. # [09:47] <MikeSmith> the problem being that lacking the context, I think some users are still going to file bugs
  127. # [09:48] * zcorpan switching trains
  128. # [09:48] <MikeSmith> k
  129. # [09:48] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-5eeaaa3e-74736162.cust.telenor.se) (Quit: zcorpan)
  130. # [09:49] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@50.0.192.105)
  131. # [09:52] <annevk> MikeSmith: maybe just list the allowed attributes for type=image?
  132. # [09:52] <annevk> MikeSmith: and state it depends on the type, with a link to the table in the HTML draft?
  133. # [09:53] <MikeSmith> the problem if we do that is I think we are still going to get people filing bugs saying, e.g., the spec says the value attribute is allowed on image
  134. # [09:53] <MikeSmith> because it's actually pretty hard to tell from the spec that it's not
  135. # [09:54] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-5eeaaa3e-74736162.cust.telenor.se)
  136. # [09:54] <MikeSmith> but if we show it in context with the other types, the users can see, yeah, value is allowed for most types, but it's not allowed for image
  137. # [09:55] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@50.0.192.105) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  138. # [09:55] <MikeSmith> and the other technical problem with only showing the allowed attributes for type=image in this message is that the current Java code does not have access at that point to the other attributes
  139. # [09:55] <MikeSmith> the exception that's thrown has information about the element name, but not the attributes
  140. # [09:57] <MikeSmith> and this weekend I looked at changing the code so that the attribute information is available at that point, but it turns out that doing that adds a lot of extra code that's not useful for anything else except this one special case of the input element
  141. # [09:57] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: i guess it's good enough, although i think the ideal message i'd want is along the lines of "Attribute value not allowed on element input with type=image. value is only allowed when type is button, checkbox, color, [etc]"
  142. # [09:58] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: but maybe it's possible to do that while still having all the information, by rewriting the message with javascript :-)
  143. # [09:59] <MikeSmith> yeah
  144. # [09:59] <MikeSmith> so I may end up doing that
  145. # [09:59] <zcorpan> you'd need to parse the highlighted extract with innerHTML to find out the used type
  146. # [09:59] <MikeSmith> right
  147. # [09:59] <MikeSmith> that is simple enough to do, though hacky
  148. # [10:00] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@ZYYYMYCLVIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)
  149. # [10:00] <zcorpan> yeah
  150. # [10:00] <MikeSmith> the Java code we are using to parse the attributes information out from the spec is pretty hacky too
  151. # [10:01] <MikeSmith> and that's where I made the change for this
  152. # [10:01] <MikeSmith> because I think it's better to keep new hacks isolated in the places where existing ones are
  153. # [10:02] <MikeSmith> rather than burdening the currently mostly un-hacky parts with extra code for this special case
  154. # [10:03] <MikeSmith> anyway, for now I'll send what I have to hsivonen for review, and see what he thinks
  155. # [10:04] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-5eeaaa3e-74736162.cust.telenor.se) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  156. # [10:05] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-5eeaaa3e-74736162.cust.telenor.se)
  157. # [10:05] <zcorpan> maybe a less hacky approach is to let the schema allow everything and have a java checker check the constraints and emit useful messages
  158. # [10:07] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.108.107.getinternet.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
  159. # [10:10] <kennyluck> annevk, regarding the question "What do Chrome users do when they face big5-uao content?" you asked a few days ago, I got some answers from a helpdesk forum. See http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20120414#l-294
  160. # [10:11] <annevk> yeah saw that
  161. # [10:11] <annevk> le sigh
  162. # [10:12] <kennyluck> k
  163. # [10:12] <annevk> though the data Philip had suggested this only affects very few pages
  164. # [10:13] <annevk> ugh
  165. # [10:13] <kennyluck> Oh, one guy suggested that charset=big5 should use the intersection of big5-2003 and big5-hkscs.
  166. # [10:14] <kennyluck> Yeah, that's the main reason why people don't really care.
  167. # [10:14] <annevk> I think that's the definition of big5 at the moment
  168. # [10:15] <annevk> afaik it includes the ETEN extensions and such
  169. # [10:17] * Joins: nesta_ (~nesta_@79.Red-81-36-68.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
  170. # [10:18] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-5eeaaa3e-74736162.cust.telenor.se) (Quit: zcorpan)
  171. # [10:19] <MikeSmith> https://twitter.com/#!/ruvebal/status/191800323050971136
  172. # [10:19] <MikeSmith> "Any repository @w3c for downloading the whole bunch of xhtml2 rng schema? The goal to convert modules to rnc for nxml-mode validation @emacs"
  173. # [10:22] * Quits: onar_ (~onar@17.216.36.168) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  174. # [10:24] * Joins: drublic (~drublic@frbg-5d84fdf2.pool.mediaWays.net)
  175. # [10:25] * Joins: mattwest (~textual@host81-149-171-23.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
  176. # [10:25] * Quits: j_wright (jamesw@ip70-173-184-17.lv.lv.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  177. # [10:28] <annevk> I wonder how much IE supports of iso-2022-jp
  178. # [10:28] <annevk> if it does not support JIS X 0212 there either, maybe that index should be removed altogether
  179. # [10:29] * Joins: PalleZingmark (~Adium@217.13.228.226)
  180. # [10:31] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@ZYYYMYCLVIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  181. # [10:35] * Quits: teleject (~christoph@70.116.86.65) (Quit: teleject)
  182. # [10:35] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@pat.se.opera.com)
  183. # [10:42] * Joins: dydx (~dydz@76-220-18-65.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
  184. # [10:45] * Quits: dydx (~dydz@76-220-18-65.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Client Quit)
  185. # [10:46] * Joins: pyrsmk (~pyrsmk@mau49-1-82-245-46-173.fbx.proxad.net)
  186. # [10:50] <annevk> anyone with an even better idea on how to organize the external indexes?
  187. # [10:51] <annevk> should I define some kind of names for them in the draft so I only need to use the links once?
  188. # [10:51] <annevk> #firstworldproblems
  189. # [10:51] * Quits: rniwa (~rniwa@216.239.45.130) (Quit: rniwa)
  190. # [10:51] <annevk> or maybe more like #anneproblems
  191. # [10:54] * Quits: myakura (~myakura@FL1-119-243-157-97.tky.mesh.ad.jp) (Remote host closed the connection)
  192. # [10:56] <zcorpan> yeah have a table that lists the indexes with <dfn>s in left column and link in right, or some such
  193. # [10:56] <foolip> kennyluck, thanks for the questions on ptt.cc!
  194. # [10:56] <annevk> <dfn>index big5</dfn> <a href=index-big5.txt>index-big5.txt</a> could work I suppose
  195. # [10:57] <annevk> and then I can add the notes there too about how these indexes are unusual
  196. # [10:57] <zcorpan> #anneproblemsolved
  197. # [10:58] * Quits: PalleZingmark (~Adium@217.13.228.226) (Quit: Leaving.)
  198. # [10:58] <kennyluck> foolip, nope. By the way, I am running your scripts for .hk sites too. It might turn out that big5-uao is as prevalent there
  199. # [10:59] <foolip> kennyluck, oh, I'm already doing that actually :)
  200. # [10:59] <foolip> but go ahead and play, independent results would be great!
  201. # [10:59] * Joins: myakura (~myakura@FL1-119-243-157-97.tky.mesh.ad.jp)
  202. # [10:59] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  203. # [11:01] <annevk> another problem
  204. # [11:01] <annevk> can a specification use language like
  205. # [11:01] <foolip> kennyluck, I can check in the list of hk URLS if you haven't generated your own yet
  206. # [11:01] <annevk> (x / 94) + 0xA1
  207. # [11:01] <annevk> (x % 94) + 0xA1
  208. # [11:02] <annevk> remainder of dividing x by 94 (as integers) but that just seems so lame
  209. # [11:02] <kennyluck> foolip, I am using Bing API too so I am afraid that there wouldn't be any different. I am at about 30% of getting the urls.
  210. # [11:03] <foolip> kennyluck, ok, let's see what you find :)
  211. # [11:03] <foolip> my suspicion is that a lot more HK pages depend on Big5-HKSCS than TW pages depending on Big5-UAO
  212. # [11:04] <annevk> I'm so happy I got you guys excited about sorting this out :)
  213. # [11:05] * Quits: fishd_ (darin@nat/google/x-pemmccfkbeoamsxk) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  214. # [11:05] <annevk> actually, you just got excited, I didn't have to do much apart from sending a few emails
  215. # [11:05] * Quits: myakura (~myakura@FL1-119-243-157-97.tky.mesh.ad.jp) (Remote host closed the connection)
  216. # [11:05] * Joins: fishd_ (darin@nat/google/x-ozuwvxcjczorbdug)
  217. # [11:06] <kennyluck> foolip, no prediction from me except that I doubt "a lot" is true :p I guess we'll ending leaning to big5-uao for non-zh locales, if we are going locale-dependent.
  218. # [11:07] <foolip> kennyluck, from annevk's initial data from dotnetdotcom.org HKSCS was certainly a lot more common than UAO
  219. # [11:08] * Quits: dcheng (~dcheng@74.125.59.73) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  220. # [11:08] <kennyluck> foolip, let's see. I don't bet any money on this :p
  221. # [11:08] * Joins: PalleZingmark (~Adium@217.13.228.226)
  222. # [11:09] * Joins: dcheng (~dcheng@74.125.59.73)
  223. # [11:11] * Quits: jamesr_ (jamesr@nat/google/x-vdexwtugclykjfjo) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  224. # [11:11] <annevk> fwiw, first non-utf-8, non-utf-16, non-single-byte encoder: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/encoding/raw-file/tip/Overview.html#euc-jp-encoder
  225. # [11:11] <kennyluck> foolip, by the way, it surprises me that https://gitorious.org/whatwg/big5/blobs/master/big5-hkscs-vs-uao.txt doesn't have many Japanese sentences. Is it simply because these pages get lower page rank or there's bugs in Bing API in this regard?
  226. # [11:12] * Joins: danbri_ (~danbri@cable-146-255-148-108.dynamic.telemach.ba)
  227. # [11:12] <foolip> kennyluck, I don't know, possibly it's because of Market=zh-TW, if Bing thinks that these pages are in Japanese
  228. # [11:12] * Quits: danbri (~danbri@cable-146-255-148-108.dynamic.telemach.ba) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  229. # [11:13] <foolip> Or these pages just aren't in the top 50 pages of the top ~3k Taiwan sites?
  230. # [11:13] * Quits: fishd_ (darin@nat/google/x-ozuwvxcjczorbdug) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  231. # [11:14] * Joins: jamesr_ (jamesr@nat/google/x-yhafsihisopppdrz)
  232. # [11:14] * Quits: Workshiva (~Dashiva@74.125.57.33) (Quit: leaving)
  233. # [11:14] <kennyluck> foolip, I think I'll stop my script and re-run that with Market=zh-TW taken away now.
  234. # [11:14] * Joins: fishd_ (darin@nat/google/x-lzxkycbiyimzkouf)
  235. # [11:14] <foolip> kennyluck, yeah, I just removed that when searching .hk
  236. # [11:15] <kennyluck> I missed that :(
  237. # [11:18] * Joins: Workshiva (~Dashiva@74.125.57.33)
  238. # [11:21] * Joins: adactio (~adactio@host213-123-197-180.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
  239. # [11:21] * Quits: nonge (~nonge@p5082AB54.dip.t-dialin.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  240. # [11:33] * Joins: nonge (~nonge@p5082BCFE.dip.t-dialin.net)
  241. # [11:34] <kennyluck> foolip, my feeling is that Bing API filters out a good portion of big5-uao… For example, http://www.bing.com/search?q=site%3Awww.ptt.cc+%E3%81%82&qs=n&form=QBRE&filt=all&pq=site%3Awww.ptt.cc+%E3%81%82&sc=0-0&sp=-1&;sk= give no hit.
  242. # [11:34] <kennyluck> big5-uao or perhaps all big5 beyond CP950...
  243. # [11:35] <foolip> kennyluck, that just means that Bing doesn't decode Big5-UAO content properly, not that it's excluded from the results
  244. # [11:35] <annevk> maybe search engines would benefit from this standard too
  245. # [11:36] <annevk> kind of lame nobody has attempted to solve this thus far and just said "use Unicode"
  246. # [11:36] <kennyluck> foolip, ah, true. (Google handles a good amount of Kanas though).
  247. # [11:37] <kennyluck> annevk, every machine benefits from an encoding standard ;)
  248. # [11:37] <foolip> kennyluck, perhaps comparing the relative amount of Japanese content in .tw domains with the dotnetdotcom.org would give a clue if it's being discriminated against or not
  249. # [11:42] * jmb^ is now known as jmb
  250. # [11:44] * Joins: Lachy (Lachy@nat/opera/x-wpphwqkcppipoaok)
  251. # [11:44] * Quits: RobbertAtWork (~Robbert@212.238.236.229) (Quit: RobbertAtWork)
  252. # [11:44] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@GYDCCXLVI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)
  253. # [11:46] * Joins: kenneth__ (kenneth@nat/nokia/x-mgigfcougoyjznxd)
  254. # [11:48] * Joins: RobbertAtWork (~Robbert@212.238.236.229)
  255. # [11:48] * Moo---O_o is now known as Moo^
  256. # [11:49] <kennyluck> In Google, site:www.ptt.cc gives me 14,100 results if I click "search all Japanese pages", and 17,800,000 if I don't. (This number is different in the zh-TW Google, very strange). This is about 0.08%.
  257. # [11:49] <kennyluck> (www.ptt.cc is arguably biased towards having more Japanese content, but I am not sure)
  258. # [11:50] * Joins: richt (richt@nat/opera/x-zwupktczooisobrz)
  259. # [12:03] <kennyluck> I guess I am willing to believe that BingAPI doesn't discriminate misencoded pages.
  260. # [12:15] * Quits: mishunov (~spliter@77.88.72.162) (Quit: mishunov)
  261. # [12:20] <annevk> ok done: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/encoding/raw-file/tip/Overview.html#indexes
  262. # [12:25] * Joins: kalc4 (~kalc4@host-92-25-192-110.as13285.net)
  263. # [12:27] <AryehGregor> Has anyone ever proposed that CSS support "font-size: xxx-large" to match <font size=7>?
  264. # [12:27] <AryehGregor> The lack of such a value is really annoying for editing.
  265. # [12:27] <annevk> yes
  266. # [12:27] <annevk> not sure if it has been done formally
  267. # [12:28] <AryehGregor> Are there any objections?
  268. # [12:28] <AryehGregor> I mean, have there been?
  269. # [12:30] <annevk> don't remember
  270. # [12:30] * AryehGregor will ask again
  271. # [12:36] <annevk> references.json does not include Unicode
  272. # [12:36] <annevk> go figure :)
  273. # [12:44] * Joins: mishunov (~spliter@77.88.72.162)
  274. # [12:52] * AryehGregor submits some feedback
  275. # [13:04] * Joins: skylamer` (cgskylamer@78.90.213.55)
  276. # [13:09] * Joins: lhnz (~lhnz@188-223-83-48.zone14.bethere.co.uk)
  277. # [13:21] * Quits: lhnz (~lhnz@188-223-83-48.zone14.bethere.co.uk) (Quit: Leaving)
  278. # [13:34] * Joins: erichynds (~ehynds@pool-71-184-234-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
  279. # [13:45] * Quits: RobbertAtWork (~Robbert@212.238.236.229) (Quit: RobbertAtWork)
  280. # [13:54] <zcorpan> does the table nesting guy on help@ want <datagrid>?
  281. # [14:00] * Parts: espadrine (~thaddee_t@acces2373.res.insa-lyon.fr)
  282. # [14:02] * Joins: espadrine (~thaddee_t@acces2373.res.insa-lyon.fr)
  283. # [14:04] <zcorpan> or maybe something like http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/1465 ?
  284. # [14:09] * Quits: izhak (~izhak@213.87.241.18) (Remote host closed the connection)
  285. # [14:25] <annevk> hmm
  286. # [14:25] <annevk> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/encoding/raw-file/tip/Overview.html#index-gb18030-code-point is incorrect
  287. # [14:25] <annevk> in particular "Let offset be the last pointer in index gb18030 that is equal to or less than pointer and let code point offset be its corresponding code point." would not select the last pointer/code point pair
  288. # [14:26] <annevk> I cannot think of better wording without special casing the last range
  289. # [14:26] <annevk> anyone?
  290. # [14:26] <annevk> oh wait, that does work, lol
  291. # [14:32] <annevk> okay, gbk/gb18030 encoders defined
  292. # [14:35] <annevk> foolip: defined them in such a way btw that merging them is trivial
  293. # [14:37] * Joins: jdong_bot_ (~jdong_bot@106.3.63.67)
  294. # [14:44] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  295. # [14:47] * Joins: graememcc (~chatzilla@host86-147-203-185.range86-147.btcentralplus.com)
  296. # [14:47] * Quits: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@114-42-60-102.dynamic.hinet.net) (Quit: HTTP/1.1 404 JohnAlbin Not Found)
  297. # [14:48] * Joins: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@114-42-60-102.dynamic.hinet.net)
  298. # [14:48] * Quits: Lachy (Lachy@nat/opera/x-wpphwqkcppipoaok) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  299. # [14:50] * Joins: [[zzz]] (~q@125.25.16.125.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net)
  300. # [14:54] * Quits: [[zz]] (~q@101.108.101.230) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  301. # [14:54] <annevk> is this correct:
  302. # [14:54] <annevk> "emit two bytes whose value is 0x7E each"
  303. # [14:54] <AryehGregor> "is each 0x7E"
  304. # [14:55] <annevk> thanks, still sounds weird :)
  305. # [14:55] <AryehGregor> A little.
  306. # [14:56] * [[zzz]] is now known as [[zz]]
  307. # [14:58] <jgraham> s/is/are/
  308. # [14:58] <jgraham> Surely?
  309. # [14:58] <jgraham> Need plural agreement with "two"
  310. # [14:59] <jgraham> Otherwise I don't understand what you're trying to say, so it is confusing
  311. # [14:59] <Philip`> "emit the two bytes 0x7E 0x7E"?
  312. # [14:59] <jgraham> Yeah, or be shorter and more explicit :)
  313. # [14:59] <gsnedders> I'd drop the "each", at lesat
  314. # [14:59] <gsnedders> *least
  315. # [15:00] <Philip`> "emit(0x7E); emit(0x7E);"
  316. # [15:00] <Philip`> English is a rubbish language for pseudocode
  317. # [15:00] <gsnedders> So ill-defined.
  318. # [15:01] <jgraham> It's OK, some people have asked for specs to be written in javascript
  319. # [15:02] <jgraham> I can't wait for the great flame war of 2015 about whether it is acceptable to rely on ASI in a spec document
  320. # [15:02] * gsnedders would quite like a spec that defined stuff in terms of algorithms in a formally defined language
  321. # [15:03] <jgraham> That's more or less like saying "I want a reference implementation"
  322. # [15:03] <jgraham> Not sure that the history of those is great
  323. # [15:04] <Philip`> To avoid the unfairness of picking a language that some people like and other people don't, all specs should write their algorithms in ABC
  324. # [15:04] <jgraham> The nice thing about English is because it's clearly ambiguous, people are more likely to yell at you if it is stupid rather than blindly assuming it is right just because it is written down
  325. # [15:05] <Philip`> (as per http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-color/#hsl-color)
  326. # [15:05] <gsnedders> jgraham: Well, how are the algorithms in HTML5 not a reference implementation, albeit in English?
  327. # [15:05] <jgraham> I guess Steven Pemberton likes ABC
  328. # [15:06] <jgraham> gsnedders: Because they are in English therefore not executable so people are less likely to blindly follow them without engaging their brain
  329. # [15:06] <gsnedders> jgraham: see the </sarcasm> bug in WebKit
  330. # [15:07] <jgraham> gsnedders: "less likely"
  331. # [15:07] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@GYDCCXLVI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  332. # [15:07] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@GYDCCXLVI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)
  333. # [15:09] <smaug____> hmm, html spec refers still to setAttributeNode
  334. # [15:10] <smaug____> kind, at least mentions it
  335. # [15:10] <smaug____> s/kind/kind of/
  336. # [15:13] <annevk> known bug
  337. # [15:14] <AryehGregor> gsnedders, wait, didn't the spec say to do nothing special for </sarcasm>? Was that really them following the spec?
  338. # [15:17] * Quits: tomasf (~tomasf@77.72.97.5.c.fiberdirekt.net) (Quit: tomasf)
  339. # [15:18] <gsnedders> AryehGregor: They did do something special.
  340. # [15:18] <AryehGregor> Yes, which the spec didn't say to do.
  341. # [15:18] <AryehGregor> So they weren't blindly following the spec, right?
  342. # [15:18] <AryehGregor> Or did the spec originally say to do something special?
  343. # [15:18] <gsnedders> Indeed.
  344. # [15:19] <gsnedders> If they blindly followed the spec they wouldn't have had a bug, but as it was they deviated frm it.
  345. # [15:19] <gsnedders> *from
  346. # [15:19] <Philip`> The spec said to take a breath then process it like the "any other close tag" case, and they did the first step but not the second, I think
  347. # [15:19] <annevk> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/encoding/raw-file/tip/Overview.html#hz-gb-2312-encoder
  348. # [15:20] <Philip`> Do the html5lib tests have coverage of that case now?
  349. # [15:20] <gsnedders> Philip`: Yes
  350. # [15:23] <Philip`> Good
  351. # [15:26] <gsnedders> (abarth wrote some which got upstream when fixing the bug)
  352. # [15:34] <zewt> adding "calling mime types media types" to the list of things people seem to insist on doing only to add to the net level of confusion in the world
  353. # [15:35] * Joins: davidb (~davidb@66.207.208.98)
  354. # [15:35] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com)
  355. # [15:35] <zewt> in there with "calling KB KiB" and "python backtraces being upside down"
  356. # [15:37] * Joins: MacTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
  357. # [15:37] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  358. # [15:37] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@nat/canonical/x-cuhcrhecbqywabmk)
  359. # [15:37] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@nat/canonical/x-cuhcrhecbqywabmk) (Changing host)
  360. # [15:37] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt)
  361. # [15:42] * Joins: Lachy (Lachy@nat/opera/x-kspatpkcdgdezcab)
  362. # [15:43] * Joins: tomasf (~tomasf@static-88.131.62.36.addr.tdcsong.se)
  363. # [15:44] <annevk> zewt: I have vague plans to define a better MIME spec at some point
  364. # [15:44] <annevk> prolly post URL
  365. # [15:46] * Joins: twisted` (~twisted@p5DDBBF93.dip.t-dialin.net)
  366. # [15:47] * Joins: rworth (~rworth@pool-173-66-213-252.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
  367. # [15:51] * Quits: demet8 (~demet8@67.8.186.94) (Quit: demet8)
  368. # [15:51] * Joins: eric_carlson (~eric@17.212.152.104)
  369. # [16:00] * Joins: timmywil (~timmywil@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com)
  370. # [16:04] <zewt> (whoops, that's another big one: URL/URI)
  371. # [16:05] <annevk> encoding -> charset? :p
  372. # [16:05] * Joins: izhak (~izhak@213.87.240.123)
  373. # [16:06] <zewt> that one's a bit different, since they really are just synonyms
  374. # [16:07] <annevk> in practice, sure
  375. # [16:07] <zewt> whereas there's the suggestion of subtle differences with the others (except nobody cares)
  376. # [16:07] <annevk> but a charset is like an index, and an encoding is like an encoding, in Encoding Standard terms
  377. # [16:07] <zewt> (well, minus backtraces; that's just some Python designer who hates everyone else)
  378. # [16:09] <zewt> i'd say if someone wants to mean something other than "a string protocol to encode a series of codepoints", they shouldn't use either of those words
  379. # [16:10] <zewt> anyway, off to work
  380. # [16:10] <annevk> yeah, agreed
  381. # [16:10] <annevk> but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Character_encoding#Character_sets.2C_code_pages.2C_and_character_maps
  382. # [16:12] <zewt> i'd disagree with "distinct meanings" (a few people might try to use them like that, but I don't think that actually gives it a new meaning)
  383. # [16:12] <zewt> (except for codepage, which to me is very specifically Windows encodings)
  384. # [16:13] <zewt> (and IBM and DOS too I guess, if we go back far enough)
  385. # [16:13] <zewt> oh yeah. work. later :)
  386. # [16:13] * Joins: Yudai___ (~Yudai@p4ab4ce.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp)
  387. # [16:14] * Quits: nessy (~Adium@124-168-15-68.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Quit: Leaving.)
  388. # [16:15] * Joins: nessy (~Adium@124-168-15-68.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  389. # [16:15] * Joins: beverloo_ (~beverloo@c-67-188-232-126.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  390. # [16:16] * Quits: Yudai__ (~Yudai@nttkyo218132.tkyo.nt.ngn2.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  391. # [16:16] * Quits: rworth (~rworth@pool-173-66-213-252.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: Leaving...)
  392. # [16:21] * Joins: teleject (~christoph@70.116.86.65)
  393. # [16:24] * Quits: beverloo_ (~beverloo@c-67-188-232-126.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: beverloo_)
  394. # [16:30] <MikeSmith> zcorpan, annevk : please take a look at http://qa-dev.w3.org:8888/?doc=data%3Atext%2Fhtml%3Bcharset%3Dutf-8%2C%3C%21doctype%2520html%3E%250D%250A%3Ctitle%3E%3C%252Ftitle%3E%250D%250A%3Cinput%2520type%253Dimage%2520value%253Dfoo%2520alt%253Dbar%3E&showsource=yes now
  395. # [16:30] <MikeSmith> and let me know what you think
  396. # [16:30] * Joins: ksweeney (~Kevin_Swe@nyv-exweb.iac.com)
  397. # [16:32] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: A+
  398. # [16:32] <MikeSmith> yay
  399. # [16:33] * Quits: mishunov (~spliter@77.88.72.162) (Quit: mishunov)
  400. # [16:34] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: what's the rule for "all types except ..." vs "... types only"? whatever's shorter?
  401. # [16:35] <MikeSmith> yep
  402. # [16:35] <MikeSmith> the list of allowed types for autocomplete is just ridiculously long
  403. # [16:35] <MikeSmith> I guess I can try having them all be "... types only" and see how it looks
  404. # [16:36] <MikeSmith> hmm, no, almost certain it's going to cause line breaks for many screens
  405. # [16:36] <zcorpan> "all types except file and image" looks nice but i'm less comfortable with "all types except hidden, range, color, checkbox, radio, file, submit, image, reset, and button"
  406. # [16:37] <MikeSmith> yeah
  407. # [16:37] <MikeSmith> ah yeah, the one for value would be huge too
  408. # [16:37] <MikeSmith> hugest
  409. # [16:38] <MikeSmith> if we listed the valid types instead of the invalid ones
  410. # [16:38] * Quits: globbot (~logbot@shell-staging.glob.com.au) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  411. # [16:39] <zcorpan> what does it look like if all attributes have "... types only" except for value?
  412. # [16:39] <MikeSmith> dunno, but I can try it so was can see
  413. # [16:39] * Quits: jdong_bot_ (~jdong_bot@106.3.63.67) (Remote host closed the connection)
  414. # [16:39] <MikeSmith> *so we can see
  415. # [16:39] <MikeSmith> but need to take a break for a bit now
  416. # [16:39] <MikeSmith> will ping you when I have it updated
  417. # [16:40] * Joins: globbot (~logbot@shell-staging.glob.com.au)
  418. # [16:40] * Quits: Yudai___ (~Yudai@p4ab4ce.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  419. # [16:44] * Quits: PalleZingmark (~Adium@217.13.228.226) (Quit: Leaving.)
  420. # [16:48] <annevk> MikeSmith: looks good, formatting could be better though
  421. # [16:48] <annevk> "accept file type only" does not make accept and file look distinct enough
  422. # [16:49] * Quits: ben_alman (~cowboy@awesome.benalman.com) (Excess Flood)
  423. # [16:50] <zcorpan> annevk: why do they need to look more distinct?
  424. # [16:51] * Joins: ben_alman (~cowboy@awesome.benalman.com)
  425. # [16:51] * Joins: Bass10 (~Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
  426. # [16:51] <annevk> I don't get what's going on when looking at it
  427. # [16:52] * Quits: Bass10 (~Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Max SendQ exceeded)
  428. # [16:53] <zcorpan> ah. maybe it should be phrased differently?
  429. # [16:53] <zcorpan> "only when |type| is file"?
  430. # [16:54] <annevk> maybe, or maybe the conditions should be smaller, gray, or some such
  431. # [16:54] * Quits: ben_alman (~cowboy@awesome.benalman.com) (Excess Flood)
  432. # [16:54] * Joins: ben_alman (~cowboy@awesome.benalman.com)
  433. # [16:54] <zcorpan> that'd make people not read them, which seems opposite of what we want :-)
  434. # [16:56] * Joins: Yudai___ (~Yudai@nttkyo333038.tkyo.nt.ngn2.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp)
  435. # [16:57] <annevk> just different color then or parenthesis, dunno
  436. # [16:57] <annevk> something that makes them offset from the attribute
  437. # [16:59] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.98)
  438. # [17:00] * zcorpan filed https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84036
  439. # [17:07] * Quits: charlvn (~charlvn@2002:8259:81f2::1) (Quit: leaving)
  440. # [17:07] <zcorpan> the typed array spec is a bit confusing in how it has IDL with variables
  441. # [17:09] <zcorpan> "interface TypedArray : ArrayBufferView {" where TypedArray is not the interface name, but is to be replaced with one of Int8Array, Uint8Array, etc
  442. # [17:10] <zcorpan> i don't understand why the members aren't all defined on ArrayBufferView and then the specific interfaces have no members
  443. # [17:10] * Joins: myakura (~myakura@FL1-119-243-157-97.tky.mesh.ad.jp)
  444. # [17:11] <zcorpan> except the constant
  445. # [17:11] * Quits: maikmerten (~merten@ls5dhcp200.cs.uni-dortmund.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
  446. # [17:13] <zcorpan> maybe the setters need to be different?
  447. # [17:13] * Quits: danbri_ (~danbri@cable-146-255-148-108.dynamic.telemach.ba) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  448. # [17:13] * Joins: danbri (~danbri@cable-146-255-148-108.dynamic.telemach.ba)
  449. # [17:17] <annevk> so BlobBuilder is not even implemented unprefixed?
  450. # [17:17] <annevk> whoa
  451. # [17:17] * Quits: Areks (~Areks@rs.gridnine.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  452. # [17:18] <gsnedders> zcorpan: You need to do modulo arithmetic, so you need some internal property if they're all on ArrayBufferView.
  453. # [17:18] <gsnedders> (giving what your base is)
  454. # [17:19] <jgraham> annevk: And Microsoft won't drop it?
  455. # [17:19] <gsnedders> s/base/modulus/
  456. # [17:22] <zcorpan> annevk: i see WebKitBlobBuilder and MozBlobBuilder, no BlobBuilder (in webkit and gecko)
  457. # [17:22] <zcorpan> gsnedders: k
  458. # [17:26] * Quits: izhak (~izhak@213.87.240.123) (Remote host closed the connection)
  459. # [17:26] * Quits: nessy (~Adium@124-168-15-68.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Quit: Leaving.)
  460. # [17:29] * Joins: rworth (~rworth@pool-173-66-213-252.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
  461. # [17:30] * Quits: foolip (~philip@2001:4c28:a032:32:312f:5823:11da:80c8) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  462. # [17:37] * Quits: kalc4 (~kalc4@host-92-25-192-110.as13285.net) (Quit: kalc4)
  463. # [17:42] * Joins: foolip (~philip@node-7lfb9ri37sthi7pl7.a0.ipv6.opera.com)
  464. # [17:53] * Quits: tomasf (~tomasf@static-88.131.62.36.addr.tdcsong.se) (Quit: tomasf)
  465. # [17:53] <annevk> where's Gecko's implementation of iso-2022-kr to Unicode?
  466. # [17:54] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  467. # [17:58] * Quits: mattwest (~textual@host81-149-171-23.in-addr.btopenworld.com) (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"])
  468. # [17:59] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@pat.se.opera.com) (Quit: zcorpan)
  469. # [18:03] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Quit: MikeSmith)
  470. # [18:04] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
  471. # [18:04] * Quits: Lachy (Lachy@nat/opera/x-kspatpkcdgdezcab) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  472. # [18:06] * Joins: Maurice` (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  473. # [18:08] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.34.103)
  474. # [18:09] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  475. # [18:10] * Joins: ap (~ap@2620:149:4:1b01:68f1:a1b5:97ac:2e2f)
  476. # [18:11] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@m9b0536d0.tmodns.net)
  477. # [18:13] * Joins: rniwa (~rniwa@216.239.45.130)
  478. # [18:22] * eighty4_ is now known as eighty4
  479. # [18:22] * Quits: eighty4 (~eighty4@li150-164.members.linode.com) (Changing host)
  480. # [18:22] * Joins: eighty4 (~eighty4@unaffiliated/eighty4)
  481. # [18:22] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@2620:149:4:1b01:28e3:9ad4:50f0:6a1c)
  482. # [18:24] * Quits: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@114-42-60-102.dynamic.hinet.net) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  483. # [18:24] <jgraham> Things I have learnt: it is important not to get confused between ancestors and children
  484. # [18:25] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@m9b0536d0.tmodns.net) (Quit: tantek)
  485. # [18:26] * Joins: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@114-42-60-102.dynamic.hinet.net)
  486. # [18:27] <Philip`> Have you accidentally buried your children?
  487. # [18:29] <ksweeney> whoa…dark
  488. # [18:31] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@50.0.192.105)
  489. # [18:31] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  490. # [18:32] <annevk> every encoder apart from iso-2022-kr and big5 is now defined
  491. # [18:32] <annevk> the former because I should fix the decoder some and the latter because well, because it's big5 really
  492. # [18:32] <annevk> and big5 sucks
  493. # [18:34] * Joins: smaug (~chatzilla@GYDCCXLVI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)
  494. # [18:34] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@GYDCCXLVI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  495. # [18:34] * smaug is now known as smaug____
  496. # [18:35] * Quits: twisted` (~twisted@p5DDBBF93.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  497. # [18:36] * Quits: rworth (~rworth@pool-173-66-213-252.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: Leaving...)
  498. # [18:39] * Joins: tomasf (~tom@2002:55e5:dbb7:0:8c31:e671:635d:cd7a)
  499. # [18:54] * Joins: twisted` (~twisted@p5DDBBF93.dip.t-dialin.net)
  500. # [18:55] * Parts: espadrine (~thaddee_t@acces2373.res.insa-lyon.fr)
  501. # [18:56] * Joins: pablof (~pablof@144.189.101.1)
  502. # [18:56] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
  503. # [18:57] * Quits: pablof (~pablof@144.189.101.1) (Client Quit)
  504. # [18:57] * Quits: twisted` (~twisted@p5DDBBF93.dip.t-dialin.net) (Client Quit)
  505. # [18:58] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  506. # [19:00] * Joins: pablof (~pablof@144.189.101.1)
  507. # [19:05] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt)
  508. # [19:05] <jgraham> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?saved=1468 <--HTML is awesome
  509. # [19:05] <jgraham> (try that in WebKit/Gecko)
  510. # [19:06] <annevk> it's actually nice in that <frameset> is just another element
  511. # [19:06] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@nat/mozilla/x-tdfspmtznwdtsifn)
  512. # [19:06] * Joins: jsbell (jsbell@nat/google/x-qbffpyeewkzpuher)
  513. # [19:06] <annevk> special casing <frameset> as HTML does is actually far less elegant I think
  514. # [19:06] <annevk> (that sites rely on any of this is absurd)
  515. # [19:07] <annevk> are you gonna file a bug on HTML jgraham?
  516. # [19:07] <jgraham> Well I assume this behaviour isn't deliberate but happened because (non-Opera) browsers didn't special case <frameset>
  517. # [19:08] <jgraham> I'm OK if you want to file the bug :)
  518. # [19:08] * Quits: drublic (~drublic@frbg-5d84fdf2.pool.mediaWays.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  519. # [19:08] <jgraham> (but I can if you don't want to)
  520. # [19:09] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@a82-161-179-17.adsl.xs4all.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
  521. # [19:10] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@a82-161-179-17.adsl.xs4all.nl)
  522. # [19:10] * Quits: Maurice` (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  523. # [19:11] * JohnAlbin is now known as JohnAlbin_food
  524. # [19:11] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  525. # [19:11] * Quits: erichynds (~ehynds@pool-71-184-234-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
  526. # [19:12] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@nat/mozilla/x-tdfspmtznwdtsifn) (Quit: tantek)
  527. # [19:13] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@2620:101:8003:200:224:d7ff:fef0:8d90)
  528. # [19:14] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@nat/mozilla/x-qwhotltquwvoiudv)
  529. # [19:15] * Joins: saba (~foo@c80-217-39-171.bredband.comhem.se)
  530. # [19:15] * Quits: saba (~foo@c80-217-39-171.bredband.comhem.se) (Changing host)
  531. # [19:15] * Joins: saba (~foo@unaffiliated/saba)
  532. # [19:17] * Quits: nesta_ (~nesta_@79.Red-81-36-68.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) (Quit: nesta_)
  533. # [19:20] * Joins: beverloo_ (beverloo@nat/google/x-uaocnptevjzzchcu)
  534. # [19:20] * Quits: adactio (~adactio@host213-123-197-180.in-addr.btopenworld.com) (Quit: adactio)
  535. # [19:22] * Quits: myakura (~myakura@FL1-119-243-157-97.tky.mesh.ad.jp) (Remote host closed the connection)
  536. # [19:24] * Joins: erichynds (~ehynds@pool-71-184-234-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
  537. # [19:25] <TabAtkins> jgraham: You'll want to subset CSS3 Text more carefully - there may still be some instability in some part of that. The rest should be stable.
  538. # [19:27] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  539. # [19:31] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert.se@93-103-104-107.dynamic.t-2.net)
  540. # [19:44] * JohnAlbin_food is now known as JohAlbin
  541. # [19:47] * Joins: drublic (~drublic@frbg-4d028ded.pool.mediaWays.net)
  542. # [20:00] * Parts: ksweeney (~Kevin_Swe@nyv-exweb.iac.com)
  543. # [20:06] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@50.0.192.105) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  544. # [20:07] * Joins: jernoble (~jernoble@17.212.152.13)
  545. # [20:10] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.108.107.getinternet.no)
  546. # [20:25] * Quits: rniwa (~rniwa@216.239.45.130) (Quit: rniwa)
  547. # [20:25] <jzaefferer> hey MikeSmith, any news on the html validator?
  548. # [20:26] * fishd_ is now known as fishd
  549. # [20:26] <MikeSmith> hey jzaefferer
  550. # [20:26] <MikeSmith> I'm waiting on hsivonen to review some patches I want to land
  551. # [20:26] <MikeSmith> but he seems to be busy lately
  552. # [20:27] <MikeSmith> I'll ping him again
  553. # [20:27] <MikeSmith> in the mean time, I will give you guys some jars you can use
  554. # [20:28] <MikeSmith> my main concern is that about if we actually release jars that contain a bunch of 3rd-party code, how to make sure we are complying with the licenses for all that 3rd-party stuff
  555. # [20:28] * Quits: jonlee (~jonlee@2620:149:4:1b01:1df3:1ea6:adf1:e812) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  556. # [20:29] <MikeSmith> jzaefferer: anyway I will aim to have something for you this week
  557. # [20:30] * Joins: nesta_ (~nesta_@85.137.209.156.dyn.user.ono.com)
  558. # [20:31] * Joins: espadrine (~thaddee_t@acces2373.res.insa-lyon.fr)
  559. # [20:31] * Joins: Maurice` (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  560. # [20:33] * Quits: erichynds (~ehynds@pool-71-184-234-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
  561. # [20:34] * Joins: dave_levin (dave_levin@nat/google/x-fzuuhhzrfcktmgvl)
  562. # [20:34] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@nat/mozilla/x-qwhotltquwvoiudv) (Quit: tantek)
  563. # [20:44] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@2620:101:8003:200:224:d7ff:fef0:8d90) (Quit: back soon)
  564. # [20:48] * Quits: nesta_ (~nesta_@85.137.209.156.dyn.user.ono.com) (Quit: nesta_)
  565. # [20:50] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@a82-161-179-17.adsl.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  566. # [20:54] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@nat/mozilla/x-pwnnnncixdnglcyy)
  567. # [20:55] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@2620:101:8003:200:224:d7ff:fef0:8d90)
  568. # [20:59] * Joins: danbri_ (~danbri@cable-146-255-148-108.dynamic.telemach.ba)
  569. # [21:00] * Quits: danbri (~danbri@cable-146-255-148-108.dynamic.telemach.ba) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  570. # [21:01] * Quits: skylamer` (cgskylamer@78.90.213.55) (Remote host closed the connection)
  571. # [21:05] * odinho is now known as Velmont
  572. # [21:06] * Joins: GlitchMr (~glitchmr@178-36-184-46.adsl.inetia.pl)
  573. # [21:08] * JohAlbin is now known as JohnAlbin
  574. # [21:12] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@nat/mozilla/x-zmelvpdbiydzqgjo)
  575. # [21:13] * JohnAlbin is now known as JohnAlbin_zzzzzz
  576. # [21:18] * Joins: freedrull (~freedrull@freedrull.xen.prgmr.com)
  577. # [21:19] * Quits: espadrine (~thaddee_t@acces2373.res.insa-lyon.fr) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  578. # [21:23] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Quit: MikeSmith)
  579. # [21:25] * Joins: KillerX (~anant@nat/mozilla/x-ilwdksglgtgytimz)
  580. # [21:26] * Joins: erichynds (~ehynds@pool-71-184-234-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
  581. # [21:27] <jgraham> TabAtkins: Thanks. Personally I don't want to subset anything at all :) Also I am a bit surprised that flexbox is now considered stable. Is that something that the WG agree with or is it just that there are a few implementations so you would have to be insane to change it now?
  582. # [21:29] <TabAtkins> The latter.
  583. # [21:29] <TabAtkins> I'm not changing anything without "OMG IT BROKEN" bugs.
  584. # [21:32] * jernoble is now known as jernoble|afk
  585. # [21:34] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  586. # [21:37] * Quits: graememcc (~chatzilla@host86-147-203-185.range86-147.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 11.0/20120310193349])
  587. # [21:41] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.193.30.getinternet.no)
  588. # [21:42] * Quits: FACEFOX (~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: http://www.facefox.com)
  589. # [21:43] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@a82-161-179-17.adsl.xs4all.nl)
  590. # [21:43] <annevk> jsbell: http://code.google.com/p/stringencoding/ looks awesome :)
  591. # [21:44] <jsbell> annevk: thanks. it's gone a bit overboard for proof-of-concept.
  592. # [21:45] <jsbell> annevk: I have tests for most of the encodings (via an index->python->encode->decode->encode->js pipeline); having issues with both kr encodings, not sure where the problem lies yet
  593. # [21:45] <jsbell> (haven't pushed that yet tho)
  594. # [21:46] <annevk> I guess the math could be wrong for the Korean encodings :/
  595. # [21:46] <annevk> I hope not, and I did check but it's not exactly pretty at the moment
  596. # [21:48] <jsbell> I'll ping you if I fail to make progress.
  597. # [21:51] <annevk> cool, the Encoding standard itself is almost complete now
  598. # [21:52] * Joins: erichynds_ (~ehynds@pool-71-184-234-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
  599. # [21:52] <annevk> iso-2022-kr encoder is the only encoder not defined
  600. # [21:52] * Quits: erichynds (~ehynds@pool-71-184-234-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  601. # [21:52] <annevk> well and big5, still awaiting some research in that area
  602. # [21:53] <annevk> but prolly good enough for integration into HTML, DOM, XHR, etc.
  603. # [21:53] * jernoble|afk is now known as jernoble
  604. # [21:53] <annevk> and see if there's interest in defining "encoding sniffing"
  605. # [21:54] <jgraham> TabAtkins: OK, I guess you might be less insane than the group as a whole :)
  606. # [21:55] <jgraham> annevk: Cool
  607. # [21:55] <TabAtkins> Hey, don't write me off the crazy list. I *did* rewrite the entire spec already.
  608. # [21:56] <gsnedders> TabAtkins: you be mad.
  609. # [21:57] * Quits: erichynds_ (~ehynds@pool-71-184-234-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
  610. # [21:57] * Joins: erichynds (~ehynds@pool-71-184-234-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
  611. # [22:00] * Joins: twisted` (~twisted@p5DDBBF93.dip.t-dialin.net)
  612. # [22:00] <annevk> jgraham: yeah, I'm happy with progress today :)
  613. # [22:00] <jwalden> I believe "u mad bro" is the proper Internet lingo for that sentiment
  614. # [22:00] <TabAtkins> jwalden: Nah, that's a different sentiment.
  615. # [22:01] <TabAtkins> Alternate use of "mad".
  616. # [22:01] <jwalden> it can be repurposed
  617. # [22:01] <jwalden> memes are made to be repurposed
  618. # [22:02] <gsnedders> jwalden: Your face is made to be repurposed
  619. # [22:03] <jwalden> on that note, anyone who hasn't seen http://webkitmemes.tumblr.com/ and http://mozillamemes.tumblr.com/ and now http://qtmemes.tumblr.com/ and http://pulseaudiomemes.tumblr.com/ prepare to squander your free time for a bit :-D
  620. # [22:03] <jwalden> gsnedders: *trollface*
  621. # [22:03] <jwalden> quality varies for each, of course
  622. # [22:04] * jwalden actually kind of agrees with kling that mozillamemes could do for more quality over quantity
  623. # [22:04] <jwalden> on the other hand, not sure I really want arbitrary-ish quality controls in place here, either :-)
  624. # [22:06] <jgraham> Hmm, I thought the only pulseaudio meme was "killed pulseaudio, sound started working"
  625. # [22:07] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@2620:149:4:1b01:28e3:9ad4:50f0:6a1c) (Quit: weinig)
  626. # [22:09] * Quits: saba (~foo@unaffiliated/saba) (Quit: leaving)
  627. # [22:11] * Quits: GlitchMr (~glitchmr@178-36-184-46.adsl.inetia.pl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  628. # [22:12] <jgraham> annevk: Happily the order thing is harder to get wrong than right since HTML defines an ordered list of descendant browsing contexts
  629. # [22:14] <annevk> normal traversal order?
  630. # [22:14] <annevk> I wonder what I did for Fullscreen
  631. # [22:14] <jgraham> Yeah, depth first
  632. # [22:15] <jgraham> Did you file a bug about the frameset thing btw?
  633. # [22:15] <annevk> let me check if it isn't already filed
  634. # [22:16] <annevk> I thought it was filed already, guess it isn't
  635. # [22:19] <annevk> jgraham: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16750
  636. # [22:21] <jgraham> annevk: Thanks
  637. # [22:26] * Joins: rniwa (rniwa@nat/google/x-lcvpabzmmbcvjqdd)
  638. # [22:27] * Joins: jdaggett (~jdaggett@ad008216.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp)
  639. # [22:29] * Quits: davidb (~davidb@66.207.208.98) (Quit: davidb)
  640. # [22:30] * Joins: jonlee (~jonlee@2620:149:4:1b01:90fa:8880:e31d:f0f4)
  641. # [22:35] * Joins: GarciaWebDev (~GarciaWeb@190.55.15.249)
  642. # [22:35] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.108.107.getinternet.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
  643. # [22:37] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@pat.se.opera.com)
  644. # [22:38] <zcorpan> jgraham: do we have urls for the frameset thing?
  645. # [22:46] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@nat/mozilla/x-pwnnnncixdnglcyy) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  646. # [22:47] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert.se@93-103-104-107.dynamic.t-2.net)
  647. # [22:49] <TabAtkins> sync XHR during onbeforeunload is high on the list for why we're killing sync XHR, right?
  648. # [22:51] <zcorpan> can we make it throw in onbeforeunload?
  649. # [22:51] <jwalden> bite your tongue
  650. # [22:51] <zcorpan> i guess the answer is "no"
  651. # [22:52] <annevk> sync XHR in general is why we're killing it :)
  652. # [22:52] <jwalden> four-letter words are not to be spoken in this channel
  653. # [22:52] <gsnedders> jwalden: My tongue already hurts from doing that earlier, do I have to do that again?
  654. # [22:52] <jwalden> gsnedders: it gets easier and less painful the more you do it
  655. # [22:52] <TabAtkins> I'm just responding to the sync getImageDataHD thread where someone defends sync XHR by offering an example where he uses it in beforeunload.
  656. # [22:52] <gsnedders> Ah! Practice, right!
  657. # [22:52] <annevk> jwalden: y u no like HTML
  658. # [22:52] <jwalden> annevk: I spell it XHTML
  659. # [22:52] <jgraham> zcorpan: urls?
  660. # [22:53] <jgraham> Oh you mean sites that actually do that?
  661. # [22:53] <jwalden> or HTML5
  662. # [22:53] <zcorpan> jgraham: yeah
  663. # [22:53] * Joins: rworth (~rworth@pool-173-66-213-252.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
  664. # [22:53] <zcorpan> former
  665. # [22:53] * jwalden imagines a slowpoke meme
  666. # [22:53] <annevk> you win :)
  667. # [22:53] <annevk> nn all!
  668. # [22:54] <gsnedders> nn!
  669. # [22:55] * Joins: espadrine (~thaddee_t@acces2373.res.insa-lyon.fr)
  670. # [22:55] <jwalden> THE DAY IS MINE
  671. # [22:56] <gsnedders> jwalden: MINE is a four letter word.
  672. # [22:56] <jwalden> :-P
  673. # [22:57] <zcorpan> TabAtkins: so where's your parser spec?
  674. # [22:58] <TabAtkins> I'm in the middle of writing it.
  675. # [22:58] <TabAtkins> The completed tokenizer is at http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-syntax
  676. # [22:58] * Quits: MacTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
  677. # [22:59] <zcorpan> TabAtkins: have you looked at http://simon.html5.org/specs/quirks-mode#the-hashless-hex-color-quirk and http://simon.html5.org/specs/quirks-mode#the-unitless-length-quirk ?
  678. # [23:00] <TabAtkins> zcorpan: I have! I've modified the tokenzier to handle the hashless hex color quirk better (it retains the full representation of a number, so "000000" doesn't just collapse into "0").
  679. # [23:01] <zcorpan> TabAtkins: nice! btw there's also the style="{ color:red }" quirk that i haven't specified because i hope it can be dropped
  680. # [23:01] <TabAtkins> The unitless length quirk algorithm seems incomplete - I know Firefox supports unitless lengths in the 'font' shorthand and uses a simple heuristic to distinguish it from <number> line-height.
  681. # [23:01] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@2620:149:4:1b01:ede5:9288:5824:4393)
  682. # [23:01] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@nat/mozilla/x-xfyaquplxtxfvbzc)
  683. # [23:01] <TabAtkins> Is that considered unnecessary?
  684. # [23:01] <zcorpan> TabAtkins: yeah i looked at some data and didn't find any page relying on this quirk working for the 'font' shorthand in web200904
  685. # [23:01] <TabAtkins> (If so, I can totally handle the unitless length quirk really easily to.)
  686. # [23:02] <TabAtkins> Okay, cool.
  687. # [23:02] <TabAtkins> That'll be in the parser stage.
  688. # [23:02] <zcorpan> nice
  689. # [23:03] <TabAtkins> I'm wondering if it makes sense to define parsing of Selectors and individual at-rules in Syntax, or delegate it?
  690. # [23:03] <zcorpan> dunno. i'll have to read css3-syntax some day
  691. # [23:04] <TabAtkins> Gimme another week or two and I'll be done enough for you to review the whole thing.
  692. # [23:04] <TabAtkins> Or you can review now, if you want. Simon Sapin has been giving me feedback on the tokenizer.
  693. # [23:04] <jgraham> Dammit I guess I have to implement this :)
  694. # [23:05] <zcorpan> yeah it won't be right now since i'm gonna go to bed now :-)
  695. # [23:05] <TabAtkins> jgraham: If your current strategy produces the same output, no change is needed. ^_^
  696. # [23:06] * Joins: weinig_ (~weinig@17.245.91.75)
  697. # [23:06] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  698. # [23:07] * Quits: weinig_ (~weinig@17.245.91.75) (Client Quit)
  699. # [23:07] <jgraham> TabAtkins: I personally don't have a current strategy :)
  700. # [23:07] <jgraham> I just need to imeplemt it due to an inability to see a Hixie-style parsing spec without wanting to implement it
  701. # [23:07] <TabAtkins> Oh, okay!
  702. # [23:07] <Ms2ger> zcorpan, wdyt about making the <font>/underline thing apply in all modes? Feasible?
  703. # [23:08] <zcorpan> Ms2ger: probably is, yeah
  704. # [23:08] <zcorpan> Ms2ger: do you know of any standards-mode pages relying on it?
  705. # [23:08] <jgraham> zcorpan: BTW I don't know of any sites that break due to having both frameset and body at once
  706. # [23:08] <zcorpan> jgraham: k
  707. # [23:08] <jgraham> But http://www.geoffchappell.com/ breaks in Opera due to replacing <body> with <frameset> at runtime
  708. # [23:08] <Ms2ger> zcorpan, no, I just don't like mode-differences
  709. # [23:09] <zcorpan> same here :-)
  710. # [23:09] <jgraham> And overall it should be a simplification when we fix that to just make frameset like a normal element rather than giving it special rules (I think)
  711. # [23:09] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@2620:149:4:1b01:ede5:9288:5824:4393) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  712. # [23:10] <jgraham> (which is presumably what other browsers do)
  713. # [23:10] <zcorpan> jgraham: yeah i can see that it can make layout simpler
  714. # [23:10] <Ms2ger> I can poke around a bit after I've removed <font font-weight> and BlobBuilder
  715. # [23:12] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  716. # [23:13] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  717. # [23:13] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@114-43-115-201.dynamic.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  718. # [23:15] <zcorpan> ok i've made http://simon.html5.org/specs/quirks-mode#the-font-element-text-decoration-color-quirk always apply
  719. # [23:15] * Joins: KillerX_ (~anant@nat/mozilla/x-wzqrugxwirylcwwx)
  720. # [23:15] * Quits: KillerX_ (~anant@nat/mozilla/x-wzqrugxwirylcwwx) (Remote host closed the connection)
  721. # [23:15] * Joins: KillerX_ (~anant@nat/mozilla/x-rcglkehsvfexeavr)
  722. # [23:16] * Quits: KillerX (~anant@nat/mozilla/x-ilwdksglgtgytimz) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  723. # [23:16] * KillerX_ is now known as KillerX
  724. # [23:16] * zcorpan -> sleep
  725. # [23:16] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@pat.se.opera.com) (Quit: zcorpan)
  726. # [23:22] * Parts: teleject (~christoph@70.116.86.65)
  727. # [23:22] * Quits: Maurice` (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  728. # [23:23] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.34.103) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  729. # [23:24] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.34.103)
  730. # [23:37] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@nat/mozilla/x-xfyaquplxtxfvbzc) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  731. # [23:41] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@nat/mozilla/x-kifujpjusgkhnbdg)
  732. # [23:42] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.193.30.getinternet.no) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
  733. # [23:42] * Quits: erichynds (~ehynds@pool-71-184-234-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  734. # [23:48] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.34.103) (Quit: nn)
  735. # [23:51] * Joins: yutak (yutak@nat/google/x-mbocvdxvklwddztz)
  736. # Session Close: Tue Apr 17 00:00:00 2012

The end :)