/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2012-09-11 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Tue Sep 11 00:00:01 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:00] * Joins: jamesr_ (jamesr@nat/google/x-xpcunpdlrpxmcnvj)
  4. # [00:02] <gavinc> Hixie: canvas is media independent?
  5. # [00:12] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  6. # [00:13] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@cust217-dsl91-135-3.idnet.net)
  7. # [00:15] * Quits: jdaggett (~jdaggett@ad008216.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) (Quit: jdaggett)
  8. # [00:16] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  9. # [00:20] * Quits: Smylers (~smylers@host86-179-136-136.range86-179.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
  10. # [00:20] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  11. # [00:21] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@cust217-dsl91-135-3.idnet.net) (Quit: tantek)
  12. # [00:23] * Quits: WeirdAl (~chatzilla@g2spf.ask.info) (Remote host closed the connection)
  13. # [00:23] * Parts: bradee (~Adium@sjfw1-a.adobe.com)
  14. # [00:25] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.244.0.219)
  15. # [00:27] <Hixie> gavinc: you can't put HTML in canvas either
  16. # [00:28] <Hixie> gavinc: i don't have a problem with embedding media-specific components in HTML, e.g. <img>, <canvas>, or <svg>. What I'm arguing is that they shouldn't be merged, as in, you're in the middle of SVG and you just randomly break out into HTML, then back into SVG, etc.
  17. # [00:28] <Hixie> gavinc: (plus, <canvas> and <img> require that the author provide non-graphical alternatives)
  18. # [00:29] <zewt> (for a fake, handwaving value of "require" :)
  19. # [00:30] * Quits: nessy (~silviapf@124-149-63-137.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Quit: Leaving.)
  20. # [00:34] * ojan is now known as ojan_away
  21. # [00:36] <jamesr> Hixie, but having a <foreignContent> / <svg> boundary makes jumping in/out OK? what's the difference?
  22. # [00:38] * Quits: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Quit: :tiuQ tiuq sah woclrak)
  23. # [00:38] * Joins: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  24. # [00:39] <Hixie> jamesr: i don't think it makes it particularly ok, no
  25. # [00:39] <Hixie> jamesr: i think where svg would make sense is in something like web components
  26. # [00:40] <Hixie> (<foreignObject> makes sense in SVG proper because there you're not pretending to be using a media-neutral language, and so you can use HTML for its features while still being fully aware it's still media-specific)
  27. # [00:42] <jamesr> i see, so you just think <svg> doesn't make sense in HTML
  28. # [00:42] <Hixie> no, i think HTML doesn't make sense inside SVG inside HTML
  29. # [00:43] <Hixie> SVG in HTML makes sense just like PNG in HTML makes sense
  30. # [00:43] <Hixie> or <audio> in HTML makes sense
  31. # [00:43] <Hixie> sometimes you have some media-specific content to place in a media-neutral discussion
  32. # [00:44] <Hixie> this is similar to how it makes sense to have a PDF in an <iframe>, but not <font> in a <p>
  33. # [00:44] <jamesr_> so what's wrong with that media-specific content embedding media-neutral content?
  34. # [00:44] <TabAtkins> Hixie: In my railroad diagrams http://www.xanthir.com/etc/railroad-diagrams/example.html I need to do a *stupid* "guess at metrics and hope" or else "manually measure text" just to get a styled box. Including a simple <span> in SVG would solve those problems.
  35. # [00:45] <Hixie> TabAtkins: the "right" solution is IMHO to have SVG have something like flexbox but for graphics
  36. # [00:45] <TabAtkins> SVG could add its own primitives that do the same thing, but that's just duplication of the same nasty variety that led to SVG's <script> and <style>, not to mention Tiny's <audio> and <video>.
  37. # [00:45] <TabAtkins> No, the right solution is to *use the technology we have in front of us instead of inventing something new for no reason*.
  38. # [00:46] <Hixie> maybe i'm misunderstanding why you are measuring text
  39. # [00:46] <TabAtkins> So I can make it look like it's inside of a box.
  40. # [00:46] <Hixie> if you just want a box to size to its contents and for all graphics that point to that box to adjust accordingly, HTML ain't gonna help you.
  41. # [00:46] <TabAtkins> That's a <text> and an *independent* <rect> element, positioned so that it looks like one is inside the other.
  42. # [00:46] <gavinc> TabAtkins: ... that page is supposed to not work right?
  43. # [00:46] <TabAtkins> Um, whoops.
  44. # [00:46] <TabAtkins> gavinc: I, um, messed it up. One sec.
  45. # [00:46] <Hixie> TabAtkins: i don't see what that has to do with HTML
  46. # [00:47] <gavinc> TabAtkins: Ah! Thanks :D
  47. # [00:47] <Hixie> jamesr: my problem is with people who write pages intended for the web that only work on one medium, when they should be able to work on any medium.
  48. # [00:47] <TabAtkins> gavinc: Fixed.
  49. # [00:47] <TabAtkins> Hixie: I think you're not understanding me quite right, and assume I'm asking for soemthing weird. I'll start small.
  50. # [00:48] <TabAtkins> So, see those boxes of text. They are *not* boxes of text, because SVG doesn't handle text well. Instead, they're a <rect> and a <text> element, independent siblings, which are positioned on top of each other such that they *look* like a box full of text.
  51. # [00:49] <TabAtkins> This is, obviously, stupid. The shortest path to a solution is to pull in HTML, so I can just put in a <span> and style it like normal CSS, with border and background.
  52. # [00:49] <Hixie> TabAtkins: yes
  53. # [00:49] <Hixie> TabAtkins: o_O
  54. # [00:49] <Hixie> TabAtkins: that seems like a non-sequitur to me
  55. # [00:49] <Hixie> TabAtkins: HTML doesn't have any elements with boxes
  56. # [00:49] <TabAtkins> ?_?
  57. # [00:49] <Hixie> TabAtkins: if you are saying you want the _CSS box model_ in SVG, then that's got nothing to do with HTML.
  58. # [00:50] <Hixie> TabAtkins: and that i would support
  59. # [00:50] <TabAtkins> Sure, theoretically. But <text> *does not work like span* (or <p> for that matter). Adding an <svg:span> or <svg:p> that *does* work correctly with the css 'inline' or 'block' model is just nasty, useless duplication.
  60. # [00:51] <Hixie> i have no idea what you mean by "work like span"
  61. # [00:51] <TabAtkins> I mean "work like an abspos display:inline element".
  62. # [00:51] <TabAtkins> <text> has its own crazy handling which can't be changed at this point.
  63. # [00:51] <Hixie> that's an entirely different, unrelated, and orthogonal statement.
  64. # [00:51] <Hixie> "span" is not "display:inline"
  65. # [00:52] <Hixie> they are literally orthogonal facets
  66. # [00:52] <Hixie> well not literally
  67. # [00:52] <TabAtkins> Dude, bro, I don't care. The point is, I want normal text in my SVG without having to add <svg:span> to the language.
  68. # [00:52] <Hixie> "span" is no more "display:inline" than "h1" is "loud volume"
  69. # [00:52] <TabAtkins> I also want <video>, etc, in the same way.
  70. # [00:53] <Hixie> i am entirely in favour of making it possible to use the CSS box model in SVG
  71. # [00:53] <Hixie> (by the way, that's what <foreignObject> does)
  72. # [00:53] <TabAtkins> Yes, but <foreignObject> is stupid and cumbersome.
  73. # [00:53] <Hixie> ?
  74. # [00:53] <Hixie> how so
  75. # [00:53] <TabAtkins> And fundamentally *does not work* for the kinds of things I want.
  76. # [00:53] * Hixie files a preemptive ticket to get Tab a new asterisk key :-P
  77. # [00:53] <TabAtkins> For one, it's an extra long-named wrapper object. For two, I need to declare a namespace. For three, it needs a defined width and height.
  78. # [00:54] <Hixie> why do you need to declare a namespace
  79. # [00:54] <Hixie> <foreignObject> My Text </foreignObject>
  80. # [00:54] <TabAtkins> Because otherwise you're using elements in an arbitrary XML dialect, or maybe in just SVG, I dunno.
  81. # [00:55] <Hixie> oh wait, <foreignObject> it self isn't a positioned CSS box, is it
  82. # [00:55] <TabAtkins> That super doesn't work. There's nothing to hang the CSS box model off of there, and it still need a 'width' and 'height' attribute specified.
  83. # [00:55] <TabAtkins> Nope, it's an SVG box.
  84. # [00:55] <Hixie> ok so just get a new element that is a positioned CSS box or whatever
  85. # [00:55] <Hixie> <box>
  86. # [00:55] <TabAtkins> (All elements in SVG are forced into the SVG display model.)
  87. # [00:55] <Hixie> anyway this has no more to do with HTML than it does with MAthML
  88. # [00:55] <TabAtkins> So, then what? I have a <box>. What do I put in it? Just plain text?
  89. # [00:55] * Quits: putneyj_ (~putneyj@cpe-075-182-097-055.nc.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  90. # [00:55] <Hixie> whatever you want, same as in CSS-styled raw XML
  91. # [00:56] <TabAtkins> That's a dumb solution. CSS-styled raw XML is cumbersome.
  92. # [00:56] <TabAtkins> Plus much less featureful.
  93. # [00:56] <Hixie> it's not a dumb solution
  94. # [00:56] * Hixie returns to <track>
  95. # [00:56] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  96. # [00:57] <TabAtkins> I'm not sure how you can say "just use raw XML from an arbitrary language" is better than "use HTML".
  97. # [00:58] <TabAtkins> Where "use HTML" has things like "yay, free styling/accessibility for <em>! yay, <video>! yay, <details>! yay, everything else that HTML gives me for free, and that I'd have to reinvent manually in raw XML!"
  98. # [01:00] * Joins: putneyj (~putneyj@cpe-075-182-097-055.nc.res.rr.com)
  99. # [01:02] * Quits: yoshiaki (~yoshiaki@31-35-181.wireless.csail.mit.edu) (Remote host closed the connection)
  100. # [01:03] * Joins: yoshiaki (~yoshiaki@31-35-181.wireless.csail.mit.edu)
  101. # [01:03] * Joins: yoshiaki_ (~yoshiaki@31-35-181.wireless.csail.mit.edu)
  102. # [01:03] * Quits: yoshiaki (~yoshiaki@31-35-181.wireless.csail.mit.edu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  103. # [01:04] <TabAtkins> Anyway, back to the original question.
  104. # [01:04] <TabAtkins> annevk: You said WHATWG if I wanted to change HTML parsing. I shouldn't need to, I don't think...
  105. # [01:04] * TabAtkins goes to check the parser.
  106. # [01:06] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  107. # [01:07] <Hixie> your use case was text with a box using the CSS inline box model, and didn't mention anything that would result in us even considering <video>, <details>, or <em>. If there are other use cases, then we should consider those as well.
  108. # [01:07] <Hixie> but so far I haven't seen any.
  109. # [01:07] <Hixie> (note that <video> in Tiny and <video> in HTML are quite different and have different use cases)
  110. # [01:07] <TabAtkins> Those other cases come along for the ride. :/ If I'm putting text in a diagram, *obviously* I sometimes want to emphasize parts of it.
  111. # [01:07] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@coffeebar.static.monkeybrains.net)
  112. # [01:08] <Hixie> you want to emphasise it, or you want to italicise it?
  113. # [01:08] <TabAtkins> Both.
  114. # [01:08] <Hixie> can you elaborate on your use case for emphasis?
  115. # [01:08] * Quits: yoshiaki_ (~yoshiaki@31-35-181.wireless.csail.mit.edu) (Remote host closed the connection)
  116. # [01:08] <TabAtkins> The entire set of inline-type elements have useful semantics for text inside of diagrams.
  117. # [01:08] <Hixie> i don't understand how or why
  118. # [01:08] * Quits: arunranga (~otherarun@38.96.132.29) (Quit: arunranga)
  119. # [01:08] * Joins: yoshiaki (~yoshiaki@31-35-181.wireless.csail.mit.edu)
  120. # [01:08] <TabAtkins> I don't understand how you dont' understand. :/ You have text. In a diagram. Some of that text may be emphatic.
  121. # [01:08] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.244.0.219) (Quit: othermaciej)
  122. # [01:09] <Hixie> your use case seems circular :-)
  123. # [01:09] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.244.0.219)
  124. # [01:09] <TabAtkins> How so?
  125. # [01:09] * TabAtkins doesn't understand.
  126. # [01:10] <Hixie> you want to be able to mark text as emphasised because you have text that is emphasised?
  127. # [01:11] <TabAtkins> ...yes?
  128. # [01:11] <Hixie> do you also want to be able to mark verbs?
  129. # [01:11] <TabAtkins> I'd like to be able to mark up text with the same set of semantics that HTML grants, because that set has proven useful over time. (Some of the set is just legacy, but including them doesn't harm anything.)
  130. # [01:12] <TabAtkins> This set of semantics is already mapped to presentation in other formats, like screen readers.
  131. # [01:12] <TabAtkins> It is the lingua franca of text semantics on the web.
  132. # [01:12] <Hixie> it has proven to be useful in particular because HTML can be rendered to multiple media, including in particular speech, braille, and visual media. This doesn't seem to apply when the use case is specifically for graphical diagrams.
  133. # [01:13] <Hixie> hence my asking you what the use case is
  134. # [01:13] <zewt> uh, no, "multiple media" has very very little to do with the wide use of html
  135. # [01:13] <TabAtkins> And that's incorrect. For example, an SVG diagram can be combined with a pointing device that reads out text at the given point, to help low-vision users.
  136. # [01:13] * Quits: yoshiaki (~yoshiaki@31-35-181.wireless.csail.mit.edu) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  137. # [01:13] <TabAtkins> This already exists, I believe.
  138. # [01:13] <Hixie> zewt: the set being useful has very little to do with the wide use of HTML too
  139. # [01:13] <TabAtkins> Expanding the set of textual semantics usable in this situation is a win.
  140. # [01:14] <Hixie> TabAtkins: aha, a new use case
  141. # [01:14] <zewt> it's fine for you to consider it important, but don't pretend it's a bigger factor for its success than it is
  142. # [01:14] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@75.16.26.133)
  143. # [01:14] <Hixie> zewt: i don't believe i pretended anything was a success?
  144. # [01:14] <Hixie> zewt: not sure what you're arguing against :-)
  145. # [01:15] <zewt> you said that multiple media is a significant ("particular") reason for HTML having been proven useful; really, it's a tiny, tiny piece
  146. # [01:15] * Quits: putneyj (~putneyj@cpe-075-182-097-055.nc.res.rr.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  147. # [01:15] <TabAtkins> zewt: We're not talking about HTML's suitability in general, so it's not necessary to defend its honor in this instance.
  148. # [01:15] * Joins: nessy (~silviapf@124-149-63-137.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  149. # [01:15] * Quits: nessy (~silviapf@124-149-63-137.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection)
  150. # [01:16] <Hixie> TabAtkins: you should describe the use cases somewhere, rather than start with the solution you prefer, because it's not clear to me that the solution you prefer is a logical result of the use cases you've presented so far, but i can't tell if that's because it's a bad solution or if the use cases are incomplete (or both).
  151. # [01:16] * Joins: putneyj (~putneyj@69.80.107.86)
  152. # [01:16] <TabAtkins> Since, on inspection, this *will* require minor parser changes of some kind, I'll make a post on WHATWG.
  153. # [01:16] <zewt> TabAtkins: i may be doing the opposite of defending its honor, since i'm saying HTML would be just-about as successful if it didn't support multiple media :)
  154. # [01:16] <Hixie> zewt: i'm specifically talking about the semantics of certain inline elements, most of which are vastly underused and are definitely not what i would call a "success", at least not on the level of HTML overall
  155. # [01:17] <Hixie> TabAtkins: please be sure to start (and possibly stop, if you can :-) ) with use cases, at least in your first post :-)
  156. # [01:17] <TabAtkins> (To somehow avoid the "when you see an HTML element, POP EVERYTHING until you get out of the SVG context.)
  157. # [01:18] * Quits: jonlee (~jonlee@2620:149:4:1b01:11c2:be6d:d944:88e) (Quit: jonlee)
  158. # [01:18] * Joins: jonlee (~jonlee@2620:149:4:1b01:70e7:f6f8:11f3:23c5)
  159. # [01:19] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.244.0.219) (Quit: othermaciej)
  160. # [01:25] * Quits: jamesr_ (jamesr@nat/google/x-xpcunpdlrpxmcnvj) (Quit: jamesr_)
  161. # [01:27] * Quits: linclark (~clark@c-67-186-35-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Quit: linclark)
  162. # [01:29] * Joins: blooberry (blooberry_@nat/intel/x-gxnjoxoabaomjokp)
  163. # [01:31] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.244.0.219)
  164. # [01:33] * Quits: ap_ (~ap@2620:149:4:1b01:1ccd:7f3e:83be:6e55) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  165. # [01:34] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.98) (Remote host closed the connection)
  166. # [01:42] * Joins: jamesr_ (~jamesr@216.239.55.198)
  167. # [01:45] * Joins: scor (~scor@c-98-216-39-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
  168. # [01:45] * Quits: scor (~scor@c-98-216-39-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Changing host)
  169. # [01:45] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  170. # [01:50] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Client Quit)
  171. # [01:52] * Quits: rworth (~rworth@pool-72-66-13-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
  172. # [01:58] * Quits: jamesr_ (~jamesr@216.239.55.198) (Quit: jamesr_)
  173. # [02:00] * Quits: necolas (~necolas@5e0428da.bb.sky.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  174. # [02:01] * Quits: Areks (~Areks@rs.gridnine.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  175. # [02:15] * Quits: jsbell (jsbell@nat/google/x-nxbvwvgetwjiswlg) (Quit: There's no place like home...)
  176. # [02:15] * Quits: benjoffe (~benjoffe@119-252-71-224.static.highway1.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection)
  177. # [02:20] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@cust217-dsl91-135-3.idnet.net)
  178. # [02:31] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.244.0.219) (Quit: othermaciej)
  179. # [02:31] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199) (Remote host closed the connection)
  180. # [02:32] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@75.16.26.133) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
  181. # [02:32] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@70-35-56-82.static.wiline.com)
  182. # [02:32] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  183. # [02:36] * Joins: nattokirai (~nattokira@rtr.mozilla.or.jp)
  184. # [02:40] * Joins: nessy (~silviapf@2401:fa00:0:fd00:85d:5dd6:b1a4:8ed)
  185. # [02:46] * Joins: miketayl_r (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com)
  186. # [02:46] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.111.198)
  187. # [02:47] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com) (Disconnected by services)
  188. # [02:47] * miketayl_r is now known as miketaylr
  189. # [02:49] * Quits: dgathright (~dgathrigh@nat/yahoo/x-zzxihhqgbjojmqhz) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  190. # [02:51] * Quits: espadrine (~thaddee_t@AMontsouris-157-1-107-44.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  191. # [02:51] * Joins: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek)
  192. # [02:52] * jernoble is now known as jernoble|afk
  193. # [02:52] * jernoble|afk is now known as jernoble
  194. # [02:54] * Joins: jamesr_ (jamesr@nat/google/x-ulgpbzttwpiqmajp)
  195. # [02:56] * Quits: jamesr_ (jamesr@nat/google/x-ulgpbzttwpiqmajp) (Client Quit)
  196. # [03:04] * Joins: jamesr_ (jamesr@nat/google/x-yhcxehtshybhkczs)
  197. # [03:08] * Joins: linclark (~clark@c-67-186-35-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
  198. # [03:12] * Quits: say2joe (~say2joe@204.56.108.2) (Quit: Leaving.)
  199. # [03:16] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@cust217-dsl91-135-3.idnet.net) (Quit: tantek)
  200. # [03:17] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@c-24-21-121-12.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
  201. # [03:17] * Quits: raidendev (~Raiden@87.239.29.7) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  202. # [03:18] * Joins: raidendev (~Raiden@87.239.29.7)
  203. # [03:20] * Quits: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek) (Quit: jarek)
  204. # [03:25] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@69.165.253.118)
  205. # [03:26] * Quits: jamesr_ (jamesr@nat/google/x-yhcxehtshybhkczs) (Quit: jamesr_)
  206. # [03:29] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com) (Quit: Leaving...)
  207. # [03:36] * Quits: jkew (~jkew@66.171.190.186) (Quit: Leaving.)
  208. # [03:38] * Quits: Guest62360 (~jondong@123.126.22.58) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  209. # [03:40] * Joins: jondong (~jondong@123.126.22.58)
  210. # [03:40] * jondong is now known as Guest53427
  211. # [03:42] * Joins: yutak (~yutak@2401:fa00:4:1004:baac:6fff:fe99:adfb)
  212. # [03:47] * Quits: danzik17 (~danzik17@ool-435606a9.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  213. # [03:52] * Quits: astearns (~astearns@192.150.22.5) (Quit: astearns)
  214. # [03:52] * Joins: astearns (~astearns@192.150.22.5)
  215. # [04:02] * Joins: danielfilho (~danielfil@189.120.70.136)
  216. # [04:02] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.111.198) (Quit: othermaciej)
  217. # [04:03] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@nat/mozilla/x-rzoqtsayvbihyesy) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  218. # [04:11] <Hixie> hm. opera and webkit render this poorly due to an HTML parsing issue: http://www.thezorklibrary.com/history/00-encyclopedia.html
  219. # [04:11] <Hixie> gecko doesn't
  220. # [04:11] <Hixie> gecko bug? spec bug?
  221. # [04:11] <Hixie> opera and webkit bug?
  222. # [04:17] * Joins: jkew (~jkew@c-50-135-126-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  223. # [04:23] <zewt> fine in ie9
  224. # [04:26] * Quits: nessy (~silviapf@2401:fa00:0:fd00:85d:5dd6:b1a4:8ed) (Quit: Leaving.)
  225. # [04:29] * Joins: arunranga (~otherarun@pool-71-125-206-32.nycmny.east.verizon.net)
  226. # [04:33] * Joins: dgathright (~dgathrigh@c-67-169-92-165.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  227. # [04:38] * Joins: danzik17 (~danzik17@ool-435606a9.dyn.optonline.net)
  228. # [04:39] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@c-24-21-121-12.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  229. # [04:50] * Joins: WeirdAl (~chatzilla@g2spf.ask.info)
  230. # [04:52] * Quits: linclark (~clark@c-67-186-35-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Quit: linclark)
  231. # [04:52] * Joins: linclark (~clark@c-67-186-35-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
  232. # [04:52] * Quits: linclark (~clark@c-67-186-35-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  233. # [04:53] * Joins: linclark (~clark@c-67-186-35-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
  234. # [04:53] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com)
  235. # [04:56] * Joins: yoshiaki (~yoshiaki@c-50-138-227-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
  236. # [05:00] * Quits: WeirdAl (~chatzilla@g2spf.ask.info) (Remote host closed the connection)
  237. # [05:02] * Quits: linclark (~clark@c-67-186-35-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Quit: linclark)
  238. # [05:07] * Quits: jkew (~jkew@c-50-135-126-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  239. # [05:09] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@c-24-6-209-189.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  240. # [05:12] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@coffeebar.static.monkeybrains.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  241. # [05:12] * Quits: arunranga (~otherarun@pool-71-125-206-32.nycmny.east.verizon.net) (Quit: arunranga)
  242. # [05:30] * Joins: demet8 (~demet8@142.196.248.126)
  243. # [05:30] * Quits: demet8 (~demet8@142.196.248.126) (Client Quit)
  244. # [05:32] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@70-36-140-99.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  245. # [05:36] * Quits: sarro (~sarro@i5387FC4A.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  246. # [05:37] * Joins: sarro (~sarro@i5E865C36.versanet.de)
  247. # [05:37] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  248. # [05:44] * Quits: tonymec (~tonymec@unaffiliated/tonymec) (Remote host closed the connection)
  249. # [05:44] * Quits: manu1 (~chatzilla@pool-96-240-179-228.ronkva.east.verizon.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  250. # [05:44] * Quits: manu-db (~msporny@digitalbazaar.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  251. # [05:46] * Joins: tonymec (~tonymec@unaffiliated/tonymec)
  252. # [05:51] * Quits: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@114-36-35-206.dynamic.hinet.net) (Quit: JohnAlbin)
  253. # [05:52] * Joins: bentruyman_ (~bentruyma@ec2-50-17-206-35.compute-1.amazonaws.com)
  254. # [05:53] * Quits: bentruyman (~bentruyma@li159-104.members.linode.com) (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
  255. # [05:53] * bentruyman_ is now known as bentruyman
  256. # [05:55] * Joins: isherman-book (~Adium@173-167-102-230-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  257. # [05:58] * Joins: kennyluck (~kennyluck@119.161.158.96)
  258. # [06:05] * Quits: blooberry (blooberry_@nat/intel/x-gxnjoxoabaomjokp) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  259. # [06:06] * Quits: dgathright (~dgathrigh@c-67-169-92-165.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  260. # [06:07] * Joins: dgathright (~dgathrigh@nat/yahoo/x-pjandlzonxakalra)
  261. # [06:13] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199)
  262. # [06:19] * Quits: sicking (~chatzilla@c-67-180-8-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  263. # [06:20] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@c-24-6-209-189.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: othermaciej)
  264. # [06:21] * Quits: yoshiaki (~yoshiaki@c-50-138-227-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  265. # [06:22] * Joins: yoshiaki (~yoshiaki@c-50-138-227-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
  266. # [06:26] * Quits: yoshiaki (~yoshiaki@c-50-138-227-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  267. # [06:28] * Joins: BennyLava` (~colin@53518387.cm-6-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  268. # [06:28] * Quits: BennyLava` (~colin@53518387.cm-6-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Changing host)
  269. # [06:28] * Joins: BennyLava` (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven)
  270. # [06:28] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@c-24-6-209-189.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  271. # [06:31] * Quits: BennyLava (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  272. # [06:31] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@119.161.158.96) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  273. # [06:32] * Joins: kennyluck_ (~kennyluck@119.161.158.96)
  274. # [06:32] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@zux221-012-118.adsl.green.ch)
  275. # [06:39] * Quits: kennyluck_ (~kennyluck@119.161.158.96) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  276. # [06:47] * Joins: jkew (~jkew@c-50-135-126-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  277. # [06:47] * Joins: kennyluck (~kennyluck@119.161.158.96)
  278. # [06:49] * Joins: dgathright_ (~dgathrigh@c-67-169-92-165.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  279. # [06:50] * Joins: sicking (~chatzilla@c-67-180-8-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  280. # [06:52] * Quits: dgathright (~dgathrigh@nat/yahoo/x-pjandlzonxakalra) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  281. # [06:52] * dgathright_ is now known as dgathright
  282. # [06:53] * Quits: raidendev (~Raiden@87.239.29.7) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
  283. # [06:59] * Joins: kennyluck_ (~kennyluck@119.161.158.96)
  284. # [07:02] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@119.161.158.96) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  285. # [07:02] * kennyluck_ is now known as kennyluck
  286. # [07:08] * Joins: SimonSapin (~simon@ip-222.net-80-236-80.issy.rev.numericable.fr)
  287. # [07:12] * Joins: a-ja (~chatzilla@70.230.152.83)
  288. # [07:14] * Joins: espadrine (~thaddee_t@AMontsouris-157-1-107-44.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr)
  289. # [07:22] * Joins: dgathright_ (~dgathrigh@nat/yahoo/x-opbvoleokgnrexyg)
  290. # [07:23] * Joins: Areks (~Areks@rs.gridnine.com)
  291. # [07:23] * Quits: danzik17 (~danzik17@ool-435606a9.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  292. # [07:25] * Quits: dgathright (~dgathrigh@c-67-169-92-165.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  293. # [07:25] * dgathright_ is now known as dgathright
  294. # [07:32] * Joins: yoshiaki (~yoshiaki@c-50-138-227-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
  295. # [07:35] * Quits: a-ja (~chatzilla@70.230.152.83) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0.1/20120905151427])
  296. # [07:35] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  297. # [07:35] * Joins: niloy (~niloy@203.196.177.156)
  298. # [07:40] * Quits: yoshiaki (~yoshiaki@c-50-138-227-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  299. # [07:41] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com) (Quit: Leaving...)
  300. # [07:41] * Joins: a-ja (~chatzilla@70.230.152.83)
  301. # [07:47] * Joins: Stevef_ (~chatzilla@08700-1.kunden.mk-netzdienste.de)
  302. # [07:48] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@08700-1.kunden.mk-netzdienste.de)
  303. # [07:49] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@94.42.88.38)
  304. # [07:54] * Quits: isherman-book (~Adium@173-167-102-230-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  305. # [07:57] * Joins: Martin_L (~Martin_L@194.18.12.26)
  306. # [07:59] * Joins: Smylers (~smylers@host86-179-136-136.range86-179.btcentralplus.com)
  307. # [08:01] * Quits: sarro (~sarro@i5E865C36.versanet.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
  308. # [08:05] * Joins: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@111-250-121-88.dynamic.hinet.net)
  309. # [08:11] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@70-36-140-99.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  310. # [08:12] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@94.234.170.33)
  311. # [08:13] * Joins: sarro (~sarro@i5E865C36.versanet.de)
  312. # [08:13] * Quits: cabanier (~cabanier@zux221-012-118.adsl.green.ch) (Quit: Leaving.)
  313. # [08:16] * Quits: sarro (~sarro@i5E865C36.versanet.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
  314. # [08:21] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@94.42.88.38) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  315. # [08:22] * Quits: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@111-250-121-88.dynamic.hinet.net) (Quit: JohnAlbin)
  316. # [08:25] * Joins: sarro (~sarro@i5E865C36.versanet.de)
  317. # [08:28] * Joins: nessy1 (silviapf@nat/google/x-zaxuxjoghlumjsyw)
  318. # [08:28] * Quits: sarro (~sarro@i5E865C36.versanet.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
  319. # [08:30] * Joins: sarro (~sarro@i5E865C36.versanet.de)
  320. # [08:33] * Quits: sarro (~sarro@i5E865C36.versanet.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
  321. # [08:34] * Joins: sarro (~sarro@i5E865C36.versanet.de)
  322. # [08:35] * Joins: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@111-250-121-88.dynamic.hinet.net)
  323. # [08:37] * Quits: sarro (~sarro@i5E865C36.versanet.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  324. # [08:38] * Joins: sarro (~sarro@i5E865C36.versanet.de)
  325. # [08:38] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@70-36-140-99.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  326. # [08:39] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@08700-1.kunden.mk-netzdienste.de) (Quit: MikeSmith)
  327. # [08:41] * Quits: sarro (~sarro@i5E865C36.versanet.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
  328. # [08:42] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@08700-1.kunden.mk-netzdienste.de)
  329. # [08:42] * Quits: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@111-250-121-88.dynamic.hinet.net) (Quit: JohnAlbin)
  330. # [08:43] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@70-36-140-99.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  331. # [08:45] * Joins: falken (falken@nat/google/x-wehnrijhccvyqwcx)
  332. # [08:45] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@c-24-6-209-189.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: othermaciej)
  333. # [08:46] * Joins: sarro (~sarro@i5E865C36.versanet.de)
  334. # [08:47] * Quits: sicking (~chatzilla@c-67-180-8-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  335. # [08:51] * Quits: Smylers (~smylers@host86-179-136-136.range86-179.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
  336. # [08:56] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.71.130.getinternet.no)
  337. # [08:58] * Quits: sarro (~sarro@i5E865C36.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  338. # [09:10] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.71.130.getinternet.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
  339. # [09:17] <zcorpan> Hixie: did they talk to you before removing the license paragraph?
  340. # [09:18] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@mpp-cp1-natpool-2-120.ethz.ch)
  341. # [09:18] <Hixie> no
  342. # [09:20] * Joins: silverroots (~silverroo@144.187.148.26)
  343. # [09:25] * Quits: Stevef_ (~chatzilla@08700-1.kunden.mk-netzdienste.de) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 15.0.1/20120905151427])
  344. # [09:25] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@212.180.202.114)
  345. # [09:30] * Quits: nessy1 (silviapf@nat/google/x-zaxuxjoghlumjsyw) (Quit: Leaving.)
  346. # [09:31] * BennyLava` is now known as BennyLava
  347. # [09:31] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@spintank2-160-134.cnt.nerim.net)
  348. # [09:35] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@08700-1.kunden.mk-netzdienste.de) (Quit: MikeSmith)
  349. # [09:36] * Joins: PalleZingmark (~Adium@c-5eeaaa2d-74736162.cust.telenor.se)
  350. # [09:36] * Joins: MarkusDBX (~markus@c80-217-131-176.bredband.comhem.se)
  351. # [09:37] <zcorpan> booo
  352. # [09:38] * Joins: shepazu (~shepazu@mpp-cp1-natpool-2-201.ethz.ch)
  353. # [09:39] <MarkusDBX> Should html/css validation be used in the year of 2012? In that case... what is the best validator to date? That follows the WHATWG version of html? Thank you.
  354. # [09:39] * Joins: Smylers (~smylers@94.116.103.218)
  355. # [09:40] * Quits: cabanier (~cabanier@mpp-cp1-natpool-2-120.ethz.ch) (Quit: Leaving.)
  356. # [09:41] <zcorpan> why would the year make a difference? a validator is a quality assurance tool (like a spell checker)
  357. # [09:41] * Parts: victor2 (~Adium@did75-14-82-236-18-74.fbx.proxad.net)
  358. # [09:42] <zcorpan> http://validator.nu/ for html validation
  359. # [09:43] <zcorpan> i can't recommend a css validator but browsers usually flag things they think are invalid in css in their error consoles, so that's what i usually use to find errors in my css
  360. # [09:43] * Quits: Smylers (~smylers@94.116.103.218) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  361. # [09:44] * Joins: henrikkok (~henrikkok@81.27.221.193)
  362. # [09:46] <MarkusDBX> zcorpan: sounds reasonable. I just mentioned the year, since the html-spec has changed somewhat i the last years. I used to use the w3c validator, but in the last years we have just used the browser-errors.
  363. # [09:47] <MarkusDBX> zcorpan: I now look for even better QA to make our clients even more happy.
  364. # [09:47] <zcorpan> yeah the validator isn't perfectly up-to-date with the spec, but then again browsers also aren't
  365. # [09:48] <zcorpan> if you find bugs in the validator, file it here: http://bugzilla.validator.nu/ :-)
  366. # [09:48] <MarkusDBX> Is chrome or ff the better validator?
  367. # [09:48] * Joins: Necrathex (~Necrathex@095-097-153-058.static.chello.nl)
  368. # [09:48] <zcorpan> for css?
  369. # [09:49] <MarkusDBX> for css.
  370. # [09:49] <zcorpan> i'd recommend checking in multiple browsers since they might not all support the same set of features
  371. # [09:49] <MarkusDBX> ah. I see
  372. # [09:50] <MarkusDBX> zcorpan: any other good advice to improve QA?
  373. # [09:50] <zcorpan> MarkusDBX: http://blog.whatwg.org/quality-assurance-tools-for-html5
  374. # [09:51] <MarkusDBX> great
  375. # [09:51] <MarkusDBX> zcorpan: thanks alot
  376. # [09:51] * Quits: SimonSapin (~simon@ip-222.net-80-236-80.issy.rev.numericable.fr) (Quit: Leaving.)
  377. # [09:53] <zcorpan> MarkusDBX: on a different level, i'd recommend user testing to get better user experience, and automated regression testing so you get to know when something stops working before your users find out and someone tells you instead of going to your competitor :-)
  378. # [09:56] <a-ja> Hixie: anyone bringing up issues with <track default> ?
  379. # [09:57] * Quits: nattokirai (~nattokira@rtr.mozilla.or.jp) (Quit: nattokirai)
  380. # [10:00] <a-ja> Hixie: asking cuz I was trying out a webvtt polyfill that would only use chapters if default'ed...so one would have to have two defaults specified....one for subtitles/captions and another for chapters.
  381. # [10:00] * Quits: PalleZingmark (~Adium@c-5eeaaa2d-74736162.cust.telenor.se) (Quit: Leaving.)
  382. # [10:02] <a-ja> Hixie: which suggests a use case......to select language for chapters as well as subtitles/captions
  383. # [10:02] <a-ja> Hixie: thoughts?
  384. # [10:03] <zcorpan> a-ja: there's a bug
  385. # [10:03] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@mpp-cp1-natpool-2-223.ethz.ch)
  386. # [10:04] <zcorpan> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17877
  387. # [10:04] <a-ja> zcorpan:ah....musta missed it. #?
  388. # [10:04] <a-ja> k...tks
  389. # [10:05] <zcorpan> a-ja: for now, i'd recommend explicitly setting .mode instead of relying on default=""
  390. # [10:06] <a-ja> .mode ??? guess i have some more reading to do.
  391. # [10:07] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  392. # [10:07] <zcorpan> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/the-video-element.html#dom-texttrack-mode
  393. # [10:08] <zcorpan> (if you want to expose the chapters yourself and don't want the browser to render them somehow, use "hidden")
  394. # [10:11] * Quits: Druide__ (~Druid@p5B1356D5.dip.t-dialin.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  395. # [10:12] * Joins: nonge__ (~nonge@p5082B32B.dip.t-dialin.net)
  396. # [10:15] * Joins: drublic (~drublic@p5098a42b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  397. # [10:15] * Joins: Smylers (~smylers@62.249.246.74)
  398. # [10:16] * Quits: nonge_ (~nonge@p5082B451.dip.t-dialin.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  399. # [10:17] <a-ja> zcorpan: mode's not an attribute of the track element, but changeable in DOM via js?
  400. # [10:17] <zcorpan> right
  401. # [10:17] <zcorpan> track_element.track.mode = 'hidden'
  402. # [10:17] <a-ja> hrm
  403. # [10:18] <zcorpan> setting mode triggers the track to load
  404. # [10:18] * Joins: PalleZingmark (~Adium@217.13.228.226)
  405. # [10:19] <zcorpan> see http://simon.html5.org/presentations/foms-2012/ for an example
  406. # [10:21] * Quits: tonymec (~tonymec@unaffiliated/tonymec) (Remote host closed the connection)
  407. # [10:21] * Joins: [[zzz]] (~q@node-9dy.pool-125-25.dynamic.totbb.net)
  408. # [10:21] <a-ja> zcorpan: leanback player's the one that required default on chapter track for it to show up in its UI, iirc
  409. # [10:23] * a-ja is really trying to not have to use js
  410. # [10:23] <zcorpan> a-ja: ok, well, until the spec has fixed its rules around default="", i'd recommend leanback player to hook in to a custom data- attribute and set mode explicitly :-)
  411. # [10:24] <a-ja> zcorpan: that'd make sense.....esp since it's already using data- for fallback stuff
  412. # [10:25] * Quits: [[zz]] (~q@node-18cp.pool-101-109.dynamic.totbb.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  413. # [10:27] * Joins: tonymec (~tonymec@unaffiliated/tonymec)
  414. # [10:27] <zcorpan> a-ja: is http://discussion.leanbackplayer.com/categories/development their bug tracker?
  415. # [10:27] <a-ja> no biggie for me...strictly for my intranet use...so i don't have to rely on polyfills or even flash fallback. just thought perhaps i'd stumbled on a possibly unknown use case for default-per-type
  416. # [10:29] * Quits: Necrathex (~Necrathex@095-097-153-058.static.chello.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  417. # [10:30] <a-ja> zcorpan: dunno...just tried a few different polyfills briefly (before abandoning them as superfluous for my needs)
  418. # [10:31] * Joins: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron)
  419. # [10:31] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@c-24-6-209-189.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  420. # [10:41] * Joins: nessy (~silviapf@124-149-63-137.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  421. # [10:43] * Joins: Necrathex (~Necrathex@095-097-153-058.static.chello.nl)
  422. # [10:43] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  423. # [10:43] * Joins: victor2 (~Adium@AMontsouris-652-1-77-60.w92-163.abo.wanadoo.fr)
  424. # [10:44] * Joins: SimonSapin (~simon@2a01:e35:2e8d:b5f0:c92d:b044:1fb2:5783)
  425. # [10:44] * Quits: victor2 (~Adium@AMontsouris-652-1-77-60.w92-163.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Client Quit)
  426. # [10:45] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@client195-215.wlan.hu-berlin.de)
  427. # [10:45] * Joins: victor2 (~Adium@AMontsouris-652-1-77-60.w92-163.abo.wanadoo.fr)
  428. # [10:45] * Quits: dgathright (~dgathrigh@nat/yahoo/x-opbvoleokgnrexyg) (Quit: dgathright)
  429. # [10:49] * [[zzz]] is now known as [[zz]]
  430. # [10:51] <zcorpan> a-ja: filed http://discussion.leanbackplayer.com/discussion/153/default-attribute-for-chapters
  431. # [10:52] * Quits: victor2 (~Adium@AMontsouris-652-1-77-60.w92-163.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Leaving.)
  432. # [10:52] * Joins: victor2 (~Adium@AMontsouris-652-1-77-60.w92-163.abo.wanadoo.fr)
  433. # [10:53] <a-ja> zcorpan: fwiw, there's a new beta out this month....i likely have the prior beta
  434. # [10:54] <zcorpan> ok. i haven't tried it at all, i've just stolen their captions for my demo :-P
  435. # [10:56] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@faun.canonical.com)
  436. # [10:56] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@faun.canonical.com) (Changing host)
  437. # [10:56] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt)
  438. # [10:57] * Quits: cabanier (~cabanier@mpp-cp1-natpool-2-223.ethz.ch) (Quit: Leaving.)
  439. # [10:58] * Quits: PalleZingmark (~Adium@217.13.228.226) (Quit: Leaving.)
  440. # [11:06] * Joins: PalleZingmark (~Adium@217.13.228.226)
  441. # [11:08] * Joins: richt_ (~richt@office.oslo.opera.com)
  442. # [11:10] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@mpp-cp1-natpool-2-223.ethz.ch)
  443. # [11:10] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@a82-161-179-17.adsl.xs4all.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
  444. # [11:11] * Quits: richt (~richt@office.oslo.opera.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  445. # [11:11] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert@lk.92.63.17.253.dc.cable.static.lj-kabel.net)
  446. # [11:14] * Joins: shwetank (~shwetank@office.oslo.opera.com)
  447. # [11:15] * Quits: Necrathex (~Necrathex@095-097-153-058.static.chello.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  448. # [11:15] * Joins: necolas (~necolas@ix-2-0-0-155.core4.LDN-London.as6453.net)
  449. # [11:15] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@cust217-dsl91-135-3.idnet.net)
  450. # [11:16] * Quits: necolas (~necolas@ix-2-0-0-155.core4.LDN-London.as6453.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  451. # [11:17] * Joins: necolas (~necolas@8.25.194.28)
  452. # [11:19] * Joins: tomasf (~tom@c-44dbe555.024-204-6c6b7012.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
  453. # [11:22] * Joins: maikmerten (~maikmerte@port-92-201-28-53.dynamic.qsc.de)
  454. # [11:29] * Joins: Necrathex (~Necrathex@095-097-153-058.static.chello.nl)
  455. # [11:30] * Quits: jack_tradez (~i@c-67-169-206-207.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  456. # [11:32] * Joins: jack_tradez (i@c-67-169-206-207.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
  457. # [11:39] * Joins: auchenberg (~auchenber@176.222.239.226)
  458. # [11:45] * Quits: j_wright (jamesw@ip70-180-205-15.lv.lv.cox.net) (Excess Flood)
  459. # [11:45] * Joins: j_wright (jamesw@ip70-180-205-15.lv.lv.cox.net)
  460. # [11:45] * Quits: j_wright (jamesw@ip70-180-205-15.lv.lv.cox.net) (Excess Flood)
  461. # [11:45] * Joins: j_wright (jamesw@ip70-180-205-15.lv.lv.cox.net)
  462. # [11:45] * Quits: j_wright (jamesw@ip70-180-205-15.lv.lv.cox.net) (Client Quit)
  463. # [11:47] * Joins: j_wright (jamesw@ip70-180-205-15.lv.lv.cox.net)
  464. # [11:47] * Quits: PalleZingmark (~Adium@217.13.228.226) (Quit: Leaving.)
  465. # [11:52] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert@lk.92.63.17.253.dc.cable.static.lj-kabel.net) (Quit: sedovsek)
  466. # [11:55] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert@lk.92.63.17.253.dc.cable.static.lj-kabel.net)
  467. # [11:59] * Joins: kennyluck_ (~kennyluck@119.161.158.96)
  468. # [12:01] * Joins: kennyluck__ (~kennyluck@119.161.158.96)
  469. # [12:01] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@119.161.158.96) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  470. # [12:01] * kennyluck__ is now known as kennyluck
  471. # [12:03] * Quits: kennyluck_ (~kennyluck@119.161.158.96) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  472. # [12:04] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@119.161.158.96) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  473. # [12:05] * Joins: kennyluck (~kennyluck@119.161.158.96)
  474. # [12:09] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@spintank2-160-134.cnt.nerim.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  475. # [12:10] * Joins: PalleZingmark (~Adium@217.13.228.226)
  476. # [12:11] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@212.180.202.114) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  477. # [12:12] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@212.238.236.229)
  478. # [12:12] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@spintank2-160-134.cnt.nerim.net)
  479. # [12:18] * Quits: cabanier (~cabanier@mpp-cp1-natpool-2-223.ethz.ch) (Quit: Leaving.)
  480. # [12:20] <annevk> karlcow: watching them more or less in chronological order
  481. # [12:20] <annevk> karlcow: at least the purported trilogy (still need to see 2046)
  482. # [12:27] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@spintank2-160-134.cnt.nerim.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  483. # [12:27] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@mpp-cp1-natpool-2-223.ethz.ch)
  484. # [12:30] * Quits: PalleZingmark (~Adium@217.13.228.226) (Quit: Leaving.)
  485. # [12:31] * abstractj|away is now known as abstractj
  486. # [12:31] * Quits: abstractj (~abstractj@redhat/jboss/abstractj) (Excess Flood)
  487. # [12:31] * Joins: abstractj (~abstractj@redhat/jboss/abstractj)
  488. # [12:33] * Quits: Benvie (~brandon@cpe-174-097-187-248.nc.res.rr.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  489. # [12:33] * Joins: Benvie (~brandon@cpe-174-097-187-248.nc.res.rr.com)
  490. # [12:37] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@119.161.158.96) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  491. # [12:39] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@spintank2-160-134.cnt.nerim.net)
  492. # [12:42] * Quits: cabanier (~cabanier@mpp-cp1-natpool-2-223.ethz.ch) (Quit: Leaving.)
  493. # [12:43] * Quits: shepazu (~shepazu@mpp-cp1-natpool-2-201.ethz.ch) (Quit: shepazu)
  494. # [12:49] * Joins: shepazu (~shepazu@mpp-cp1-natpool-2-201.ethz.ch)
  495. # [12:49] * Quits: shepazu (~shepazu@mpp-cp1-natpool-2-201.ethz.ch) (Client Quit)
  496. # [12:52] * Quits: silverroots (~silverroo@144.187.148.26) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  497. # [12:56] * Quits: Guest53427 (~jondong@123.126.22.58) (Remote host closed the connection)
  498. # [12:59] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert@lk.92.63.17.253.dc.cable.static.lj-kabel.net) (Quit: sedovsek)
  499. # [13:01] * Joins: david_carlisle (~chatzilla@86.188.197.189)
  500. # [13:03] * Joins: arunranga (~otherarun@pool-71-125-206-32.nycmny.east.verizon.net)
  501. # [13:08] * Joins: silverroots (~silverroo@144.187.148.28)
  502. # [13:20] * Quits: hasather (~davidh@office.oslo.opera.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  503. # [13:20] * Quits: jgraham (~jgraham@web91.webfaction.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  504. # [13:20] <zcorpan> Hixie: minimized to http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/1757
  505. # [13:21] * Joins: jgraham (~jgraham@web91.webfaction.com)
  506. # [13:21] * Quits: beverloo` (~peter@nishino.lvp-media.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  507. # [13:21] * Quits: Martijnc- (~Martijn@nishino.lvp-media.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  508. # [13:21] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@69.165.253.118) (Remote host closed the connection)
  509. # [13:22] <zcorpan> seems it's related to the "don't reconstruct more than three identical elements" thing
  510. # [13:24] * Joins: Peter` (~peter@nishino.lvp-media.com)
  511. # [13:24] * Joins: Martijnc (~Martijn@nishino.lvp-media.com)
  512. # [13:24] * Joins: PalleZingmark (~Adium@217.13.228.226)
  513. # [13:25] <zcorpan> i can't wrap my head around AAA so i can't tell if it's a spec bug or not
  514. # [13:25] <zcorpan> but i'll file a opera bug
  515. # [13:31] * Joins: benbarnett (~Adium@cpc15-slam5-2-0-cust493.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com)
  516. # [13:33] * Joins: hasather (~davidh@office.oslo.opera.com)
  517. # [13:34] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert@lk.92.63.17.253.dc.cable.static.lj-kabel.net)
  518. # [13:37] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@cust217-dsl91-135-3.idnet.net) (Quit: tantek)
  519. # [13:38] * Joins: linclark (~clark@c-67-186-35-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
  520. # [13:40] * Quits: benbarnett (~Adium@cpc15-slam5-2-0-cust493.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
  521. # [13:44] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@212.180.202.114)
  522. # [13:45] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@mpp-cp1-natpool-2-156.ethz.ch)
  523. # [13:46] * Quits: broquaint (~dbrook@static.94.217.47.78.clients.your-server.de) (Quit: leaving)
  524. # [13:50] * Joins: benbarnett (~Adium@cpc15-slam5-2-0-cust493.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com)
  525. # [13:50] * Joins: shepazu (~shepazu@mpp-cp1-natpool-1-082.ethz.ch)
  526. # [13:50] * Quits: cabanier (~cabanier@mpp-cp1-natpool-2-156.ethz.ch) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  527. # [13:59] * Joins: broquaint (~dbrook@static.94.217.47.78.clients.your-server.de)
  528. # [14:08] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@client195-215.wlan.hu-berlin.de) (Quit: MikeSmith)
  529. # [14:12] * Quits: shepazu (~shepazu@mpp-cp1-natpool-1-082.ethz.ch) (Quit: shepazu)
  530. # [14:16] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@212.238.236.229) (Remote host closed the connection)
  531. # [14:16] * Joins: shepazu (~shepazu@mpp-cp1-natpool-1-082.ethz.ch)
  532. # [14:17] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@212.238.236.229)
  533. # [14:23] * Quits: benbarnett (~Adium@cpc15-slam5-2-0-cust493.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
  534. # [14:23] * Joins: lhnz (~lhnz@94.31.26.5)
  535. # [14:25] * Joins: wooorm (~wooorm@145.28.236.27)
  536. # [14:25] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@client195-215.wlan.hu-berlin.de)
  537. # [14:26] * Joins: rworth (~rworth@pool-72-66-13-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
  538. # [14:26] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@69.165.253.118)
  539. # [14:28] * Joins: benbarnett (~Adium@cpc15-slam5-2-0-cust493.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com)
  540. # [14:29] <zcorpan> sigh. why do web shops send me my password in plain text in email?
  541. # [14:31] <zcorpan> and also "security tips" like i should change my password every 6 months
  542. # [14:32] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@70-35-56-82.static.wiline.com) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  543. # [14:32] * Quits: wooorm (~wooorm@145.28.236.27) (Quit: Leaving.)
  544. # [14:33] * Joins: krawchyk (~krawchyk@65.220.49.251)
  545. # [14:38] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@mpp-cp1-natpool-2-156.ethz.ch)
  546. # [14:40] * Quits: lhnz (~lhnz@94.31.26.5) (Quit: Leaving)
  547. # [14:44] * Quits: arunranga (~otherarun@pool-71-125-206-32.nycmny.east.verizon.net) (Quit: arunranga)
  548. # [14:45] <annevk> sweet
  549. # [14:45] <annevk> the github setup works great
  550. # [14:46] * Quits: cabanier (~cabanier@mpp-cp1-natpool-2-156.ethz.ch) (Quit: Leaving.)
  551. # [14:50] * Joins: yoshiaki (~yoshiaki@31-35-181.wireless.csail.mit.edu)
  552. # [14:53] * Quits: auchenberg (~auchenber@176.222.239.226) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  553. # [14:53] * Joins: auchenberg (~auchenber@176.222.239.226)
  554. # [14:56] * Quits: benbarnett (~Adium@cpc15-slam5-2-0-cust493.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
  555. # [15:00] * Joins: auchenbe_ (~auchenber@176.222.239.226)
  556. # [15:01] * Quits: auchenberg (~auchenber@176.222.239.226) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  557. # [15:10] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199) (Remote host closed the connection)
  558. # [15:11] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199)
  559. # [15:12] * Joins: wooorm (~wooorm@145.28.236.27)
  560. # [15:13] * Quits: PalleZingmark (~Adium@217.13.228.226) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  561. # [15:13] * Joins: PalleZingmark (~Adium@217.13.228.226)
  562. # [15:13] * Quits: Workshiva (Dashiva@nat/google/x-exsbnejbzingugbl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  563. # [15:15] * Joins: Workshiva (Dashiva@nat/google/x-pgawnynqlsexqlzx)
  564. # [15:15] * Parts: wooorm (~wooorm@145.28.236.27)
  565. # [15:15] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
  566. # [15:15] * Quits: niloy (~niloy@203.196.177.156) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  567. # [15:20] * Quits: fkm (~fkm@unaffiliated/fkm) (Quit: Bye)
  568. # [15:21] * Quits: Martin_L (~Martin_L@194.18.12.26) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  569. # [15:22] * Joins: thisgeek (~chris@ool-45757d25.dyn.optonline.net)
  570. # [15:25] * Joins: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@114-36-35-206.dynamic.hinet.net)
  571. # [15:26] * Joins: eminor (~eminor@p548CFF42.dip.t-dialin.net)
  572. # [15:26] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@mpp-cp1-natpool-3-070.ethz.ch)
  573. # [15:26] * Joins: yodasw16 (~yodasw16@ql1fwhide.rockfin.com)
  574. # [15:27] <annevk> Hixie: when you're awake again, can you give me encoding.spec.whatwg.org / xhr.spec.whatwg.org / fullscreen.spec.whatwg.org
  575. # [15:33] * Joins: danzik17 (~danzik17@164.55.254.106)
  576. # [15:38] * Quits: PalleZingmark (~Adium@217.13.228.226) (Quit: Leaving.)
  577. # [15:46] * Joins: MacTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
  578. # [15:47] * Joins: vhardy (u7483@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nyjlktrxmfksayzn)
  579. # [15:50] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@69.165.253.118) (Remote host closed the connection)
  580. # [15:50] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@69.165.253.118)
  581. # [15:52] * Joins: scor (~scor@w0045398.mgh.harvard.edu)
  582. # [15:52] * Quits: scor (~scor@w0045398.mgh.harvard.edu) (Changing host)
  583. # [15:52] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  584. # [15:53] * Quits: yoshiaki (~yoshiaki@31-35-181.wireless.csail.mit.edu) (Remote host closed the connection)
  585. # [15:53] * Joins: yoshiaki (~yoshiaki@31-35-181.wireless.csail.mit.edu)
  586. # [15:54] * Joins: yoshiaki_ (~yoshiaki@31-35-181.wireless.csail.mit.edu)
  587. # [15:56] * Joins: yoshiak__ (~yoshiaki@31-35-181.wireless.csail.mit.edu)
  588. # [15:56] * Quits: yoshiak__ (~yoshiaki@31-35-181.wireless.csail.mit.edu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  589. # [15:56] * Quits: yoshiaki (~yoshiaki@31-35-181.wireless.csail.mit.edu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  590. # [15:57] * Joins: yoshiaki (~yoshiaki@31-35-181.wireless.csail.mit.edu)
  591. # [15:58] * Joins: yoshiak__ (~yoshiaki@31-35-181.wireless.csail.mit.edu)
  592. # [15:58] * Quits: yoshiaki_ (~yoshiaki@31-35-181.wireless.csail.mit.edu) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  593. # [15:58] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@69.165.253.118) (Remote host closed the connection)
  594. # [15:59] * Joins: yoshiaki_ (~yoshiaki@31-35-181.wireless.csail.mit.edu)
  595. # [15:59] * Quits: yoshiaki_ (~yoshiaki@31-35-181.wireless.csail.mit.edu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  596. # [15:59] * Quits: yoshiaki (~yoshiaki@31-35-181.wireless.csail.mit.edu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  597. # [15:59] * Joins: yoshiaki (~yoshiaki@31-35-181.wireless.csail.mit.edu)
  598. # [16:00] * Quits: yoshiak__ (~yoshiaki@31-35-181.wireless.csail.mit.edu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  599. # [16:03] * Joins: tawhuac (~tawhuac@190.71.251.96)
  600. # [16:03] * Joins: craig_ (~craig@static-173-50-48-6.syrcny.fios.verizon.net)
  601. # [16:04] <zcorpan> Hixie: apparently the spec is right (re AAA)
  602. # [16:08] * Quits: silverroots (~silverroo@144.187.148.28) (Remote host closed the connection)
  603. # [16:10] * Quits: cabanier (~cabanier@mpp-cp1-natpool-3-070.ethz.ch) (Quit: Leaving.)
  604. # [16:10] * Joins: auchenberg (~auchenber@176.222.239.226)
  605. # [16:10] * Quits: necolas (~necolas@8.25.194.28) (Remote host closed the connection)
  606. # [16:10] * Quits: auchenbe_ (~auchenber@176.222.239.226) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  607. # [16:12] * Joins: manu1 (~chatzilla@pool-71-171-26-223.nwrknj.east.verizon.net)
  608. # [16:13] * Joins: izhak (~izhak@188.244.183.63)
  609. # [16:13] * attiks|away is now known as attiks
  610. # [16:15] <zcorpan> (filed https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96385 )
  611. # [16:20] * Quits: thisgeek (~chris@ool-45757d25.dyn.optonline.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  612. # [16:20] * Joins: thisgeek (~chris@ool-45757d25.dyn.optonline.net)
  613. # [16:24] * Quits: bentruyman (~bentruyma@ec2-50-17-206-35.compute-1.amazonaws.com) (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
  614. # [16:25] * Joins: thisgeek_ (~chris@ool-45757d25.dyn.optonline.net)
  615. # [16:25] * Quits: thisgeek (~chris@ool-45757d25.dyn.optonline.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  616. # [16:25] * thisgeek_ is now known as thisgeek
  617. # [16:26] * Joins: thisgeek_ (~chris@ool-45757d25.dyn.optonline.net)
  618. # [16:26] * Quits: thisgeek (~chris@ool-45757d25.dyn.optonline.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  619. # [16:26] * thisgeek_ is now known as thisgeek
  620. # [16:30] * Joins: garciawebdev (~garciaweb@190.244.76.14)
  621. # [16:31] * attiks is now known as attiks|away
  622. # [16:37] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com)
  623. # [16:41] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.98)
  624. # [16:42] * Joins: gqlewis (~gqlewis@204.31.128.94)
  625. # [16:45] * Quits: espadrine (~thaddee_t@AMontsouris-157-1-107-44.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  626. # [16:45] <annevk> Hixie: might as well create url.spec and fetch.spec (for CORS, later fetch) while you're at it
  627. # [16:46] <annevk> Hixie: thinking about merging Progress Events into XMLHttpRequest
  628. # [16:46] <annevk> dunno about Web Notifications
  629. # [16:46] <annevk> anyone with opinions?
  630. # [16:46] * Quits: gqlewis (~gqlewis@204.31.128.94) (Remote host closed the connection)
  631. # [16:47] <darobin> annevk: would it change anything other than document organisation?
  632. # [16:47] <annevk> darobin: the merging?
  633. # [16:47] * Joins: gqlewis (~gqlewis@204.31.128.94)
  634. # [16:48] <darobin> yeah
  635. # [16:48] <annevk> not really, mostly easier for me
  636. # [16:48] <darobin> then *shrug*
  637. # [16:48] <annevk> well yeah, I actually meant about Web Notifications
  638. # [16:49] <annevk> I guess we can fork that too, but maybe wait a bit to see what happens first
  639. # [16:49] <annevk> there's no hurry
  640. # [16:49] <darobin> ah, gotcha
  641. # [16:50] <annevk> Hixie: interested in using https://github.com/whatwg too?
  642. # [16:50] <annevk> I suppose it should handle things as large as HTML
  643. # [16:51] * Joins: benbarnett (~Adium@cpc15-slam5-2-0-cust493.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com)
  644. # [16:51] * Quits: gqlewis (~gqlewis@204.31.128.94) (Remote host closed the connection)
  645. # [16:51] <darobin> annevk: it handles them just fine :)
  646. # [16:52] <darobin> in fact, it's even fucking fast, considering
  647. # [16:52] <annevk> ah yeah, you guys are using github too
  648. # [16:52] <annevk> sweet
  649. # [16:52] <jgraham> Hmm, I tried importing the HTML spec into git once, with the full history
  650. # [16:52] <darobin> annevk: to make your life easier you could even just clone https://github.com/w3c/html/tree/feature/whatwg ;-)
  651. # [16:52] <jgraham> and it worked fine
  652. # [16:53] <jgraham> But it was *big*
  653. # [16:53] <jgraham> and github didn;t like it
  654. # [16:53] <darobin> the first import takes a while
  655. # [16:53] <darobin> jgraham: the W3C repo has all the SVN history from WHATWG
  656. # [16:54] <darobin> in fact, in theory we could all use the same repo just with different branches
  657. # [16:54] * darobin puts flowers in his head
  658. # [16:54] <annevk> heh, fork the W3C copy of the WHATWG copy of HTML to WHATWG
  659. # [16:54] <darobin> :)
  660. # [16:58] <jgraham> darobin: Pretty sure you are only suppose to put the flowers in your hair, not try to penetrate the skull
  661. # [16:58] * Joins: griswold (~quassel@blackhole.space150.com)
  662. # [16:58] <darobin> jgraham: you're such a boring square
  663. # [17:02] * Joins: niloy (~niloy@42.106.96.55)
  664. # [17:04] * Quits: benbarnett (~Adium@cpc15-slam5-2-0-cust493.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
  665. # [17:08] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@94.234.170.33) (Remote host closed the connection)
  666. # [17:10] * Joins: benbarnett (~Adium@cpc15-slam5-2-0-cust493.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com)
  667. # [17:10] * Quits: benbarnett (~Adium@cpc15-slam5-2-0-cust493.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com) (Client Quit)
  668. # [17:11] * Quits: david_carlisle (~chatzilla@86.188.197.189) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  669. # [17:13] * Quits: jkew (~jkew@c-50-135-126-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  670. # [17:20] * Quits: henrikkok (~henrikkok@81.27.221.193) (Quit: Leaving.)
  671. # [17:20] * Joins: necolas (~necolas@8.25.194.28)
  672. # [17:20] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-5eeaaab4-74736162.cust.telenor.se)
  673. # [17:21] * Joins: david_carlisle (~chatzilla@86.188.197.189)
  674. # [17:21] * Joins: erichynds (~ehynds@64.206.121.41)
  675. # [17:23] * Quits: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Quit: :tiuQ tiuq sah woclrak)
  676. # [17:32] * Quits: Necrathex (~Necrathex@095-097-153-058.static.chello.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  677. # [17:34] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-5eeaaab4-74736162.cust.telenor.se) (Remote host closed the connection)
  678. # [17:40] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@c-24-6-209-189.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: othermaciej)
  679. # [17:43] * Joins: dgathright (~dgathrigh@c-67-169-92-165.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  680. # [17:45] * Joins: Necrathex (~Necrathex@095-097-153-058.static.chello.nl)
  681. # [17:50] * Joins: dgathright_ (~dgathrigh@nat/yahoo/x-bgmjbijxcngxmnkf)
  682. # [17:51] * Joins: blooberry (blooberry_@nat/intel/x-gkposqrlfyzlousk)
  683. # [17:54] * Quits: dgathright (~dgathrigh@c-67-169-92-165.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  684. # [17:54] * dgathright_ is now known as dgathright
  685. # [17:54] <scor> where in the microdta spec does it say that a property cannot be used in its ful URI form if the vocabulary specifying it does not allow it?
  686. # [17:54] * Quits: shepazu (~shepazu@mpp-cp1-natpool-1-082.ethz.ch) (Quit: shepazu)
  687. # [17:55] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert@lk.92.63.17.253.dc.cable.static.lj-kabel.net) (Quit: sedovsek)
  688. # [17:57] * Joins: say2joe (~say2joe@204.56.108.2)
  689. # [18:06] * Quits: shwetank (~shwetank@office.oslo.opera.com) (Quit: Leaving...)
  690. # [18:07] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@host213-123-197-180.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
  691. # [18:07] * Joins: jkew (~jkew@66.171.190.186)
  692. # [18:09] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@client195-215.wlan.hu-berlin.de) (Quit: MikeSmith)
  693. # [18:09] * Quits: Necrathex (~Necrathex@095-097-153-058.static.chello.nl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  694. # [18:10] * Quits: yoshiaki (~yoshiaki@31-35-181.wireless.csail.mit.edu) (Remote host closed the connection)
  695. # [18:11] * Joins: yoshiaki (~yoshiaki@31-35-181.wireless.csail.mit.edu)
  696. # [18:14] * Quits: Smylers (~smylers@62.249.246.74) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  697. # [18:15] * Quits: yoshiaki (~yoshiaki@31-35-181.wireless.csail.mit.edu) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  698. # [18:19] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@70-36-140-99.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  699. # [18:24] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@zux221-012-118.adsl.green.ch)
  700. # [18:25] * Joins: Necrathex (~Necrathex@095-097-153-058.static.chello.nl)
  701. # [18:27] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
  702. # [18:28] * Joins: ap (~ap@2620:149:4:1b01:410f:2006:a5ab:b2d2)
  703. # [18:28] * Joins: sicking (~chatzilla@c-67-180-8-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  704. # [18:29] * attiks|away is now known as attiks
  705. # [18:29] <david_carlisle> TabAtkins: Yes please we (mathematicians everywhere) want to be able to do commutative diagrams by just naturally nesting mathml in svg in html, it almost but not quite "just works"
  706. # [18:30] * Joins: arunranga (~otherarun@rrcs-208-105-93-170.nyc.biz.rr.com)
  707. # [18:33] * Quits: cabanier (~cabanier@zux221-012-118.adsl.green.ch) (Quit: Leaving.)
  708. # [18:35] * Quits: a-ja (~chatzilla@70.230.152.83) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0.1/20120905151427])
  709. # [18:39] * Joins: shwetank (~shwetank@cm-84.215.28.236.getinternet.no)
  710. # [18:39] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@spintank2-160-134.cnt.nerim.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  711. # [18:41] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199)
  712. # [18:42] * Joins: Maurice` (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  713. # [18:51] * Quits: arunranga (~otherarun@rrcs-208-105-93-170.nyc.biz.rr.com) (Quit: arunranga)
  714. # [18:52] * Quits: richt_ (~richt@office.oslo.opera.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  715. # [18:53] * Joins: richt (~richt@office.oslo.opera.com)
  716. # [18:53] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199) (Remote host closed the connection)
  717. # [18:53] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.111.198)
  718. # [18:54] * Joins: raiden (~Raiden@194.154.66.59)
  719. # [18:54] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199)
  720. # [18:54] * raiden is now known as Guest34269
  721. # [18:54] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@212.180.202.114) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  722. # [18:55] * Guest34269 is now known as raidendev
  723. # [18:56] * ojan_away is now known as ojan
  724. # [18:58] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  725. # [18:59] * Quits: victor2 (~Adium@AMontsouris-652-1-77-60.w92-163.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Leaving.)
  726. # [19:00] <Hixie> scor: properties don't have "full URI forms" unlsess a vocabulary specifies it
  727. # [19:00] <Hixie> annevk: what username should i use for you, assuming we're not going through the hoops we went through last time?
  728. # [19:01] <Hixie> annevk: re github, i have no reason to use github
  729. # [19:01] <scor> Hixie: ok, so the vocab author would have to specify both the short form and the full URI for both of them to be usable and valid?
  730. # [19:01] * Quits: thisgeek (~chris@ool-45757d25.dyn.optonline.net) (Quit: thisgeek)
  731. # [19:01] <Hixie> scor: yeah, though i wouldn't recommend it. You could end up with items that have two values for the property.
  732. # [19:01] <Hixie> scor: you'd really have to define them as separate properties and say which one takes preference, etc
  733. # [19:02] * Quits: SimonSapin (~simon@2a01:e35:2e8d:b5f0:c92d:b044:1fb2:5783) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  734. # [19:02] <jgraham> Hixie: (FWIW if you used github it would be better for me in a few small ways e.g. the revision list would be better than annevk's thing)
  735. # [19:02] <scor> for example one could define both 'http://example.com/fn' and 'fn'
  736. # [19:02] <scor> and have the same definition for both
  737. # [19:02] <jgraham> (so that is one small reason)
  738. # [19:02] * Quits: shwetank (~shwetank@cm-84.215.28.236.getinternet.no) (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
  739. # [19:02] <Hixie> jgraham: i think darobin's crew has that covered already
  740. # [19:02] <Hixie> scor: say you defined both of those to mean "biological mother"
  741. # [19:02] <jgraham> Hixie: Only to the extent that they pull in all the cvhanges you make
  742. # [19:03] <scor> Hixie: but I understand that even if both were defined, values using each would not be equivalent
  743. # [19:03] <Hixie> scor: and an item had both set, pointing at different other items...
  744. # [19:03] <jgraham> Which theya re sure not to
  745. # [19:03] <Hixie> scor: you'd just have to say which takes precedence (and say that it's not conforming to have both, so validators of that vocabulary could complain)
  746. # [19:03] <scor> ok
  747. # [19:03] <Hixie> jgraham: they have a branch on which they are doing so, i believe
  748. # [19:03] * Joins: yoshiaki (~yoshiaki@31-35-36.wireless.csail.mit.edu)
  749. # [19:04] <scor> Hixie: now, where in the spec does it say that it is not valid to use a full URI for a property if the vocabulary does not define it?
  750. # [19:04] <jgraham> So they have one branch that is precisely the WHATWG spec?
  751. # [19:04] <jgraham> Interesting
  752. # [19:04] <scor> or is that implicit?
  753. # [19:04] * Joins: aklein (u4454@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wrhiybybuptzocfm)
  754. # [19:04] <Hixie> scor: the spec says it's not valid to use a property that isn't defined, iirc
  755. # [19:04] <Hixie> scor: if you have a vocabulary type
  756. # [19:04] <scor> Hixie: I'm looking at http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/microdata.html#selecting-names-when-defining-vocabularies
  757. # [19:04] <scor> (hope it's the right place)
  758. # [19:05] <Hixie> That section is non-normative
  759. # [19:05] <Hixie> you want http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/microdata.html#names:-the-itemprop-attribute for the nitty gritty
  760. # [19:05] <Hixie> hm, i guess it does allow URLs always
  761. # [19:05] <Hixie> interesting
  762. # [19:06] <scor> is it a bug?
  763. # [19:06] <scor> should it disallow them?
  764. # [19:06] <scor> (if not defined in the vocab)
  765. # [19:06] <Hixie> yeah, it's a bug. It should only allow URLs that are defined to be properties.
  766. # [19:07] <Hixie> same as itemtype=""
  767. # [19:08] <Hixie> filed https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18837
  768. # [19:08] * Hixie pokes annevk
  769. # [19:08] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@70-36-140-99.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  770. # [19:10] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@client195-215.wlan.hu-berlin.de)
  771. # [19:11] <annevk> Hixie: if annevk is taken, anne or annevankesteren
  772. # [19:12] <annevk> Hixie: or avankest for some irony
  773. # [19:12] <Hixie> i think annevk is taken by you
  774. # [19:12] * Quits: say2joe (~say2joe@204.56.108.2) (Quit: Leaving.)
  775. # [19:12] <Hixie> anne is taken too, now trying annevankesteren
  776. # [19:13] * Joins: arunranga (~otherarun@rrcs-208-105-93-170.nyc.biz.rr.com)
  777. # [19:13] <Hixie> ok, created user. now the domains
  778. # [19:13] <Hixie> annevk: which subdomains did you want again? can you list them all, comma separated?
  779. # [19:13] * Joins: raiden-dev (~Raiden@194.154.66.59)
  780. # [19:14] <annevk> url.spec.whatwg.org, xhr.spec.whatwg.org, encoding.spec.whatwg.org, fullscreen.spec.whatwg.org, fetch.spec.whatwg.org
  781. # [19:14] <Hixie> url, xhr, encoding, fullscreen, and fetch. ok
  782. # [19:14] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@host213-123-197-180.in-addr.btopenworld.com) (Quit: tantek)
  783. # [19:14] <Hixie> after this i'll be up to 80 subdomains and domains on my plan, sheesh
  784. # [19:15] <annevk> heh
  785. # [19:15] <annevk> these could've been directories :p
  786. # [19:15] <Hixie> do you have a preference for directory structure in /home/annevankesteren/?
  787. # [19:15] <Hixie> just .../url.spec.whatwg.org/... ?
  788. # [19:16] <annevk> yeah that's fine
  789. # [19:16] <annevk> just defaults
  790. # [19:16] <annevk> only need to put a small script there
  791. # [19:16] <Hixie> roger
  792. # [19:16] * Quits: david_carlisle (~chatzilla@86.188.197.189) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  793. # [19:17] * Quits: raidendev (~Raiden@194.154.66.59) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  794. # [19:17] <Hixie> freaking captchas
  795. # [19:19] * Joins: manu-db (~msporny@216.252.204.51)
  796. # [19:19] <annevk> yeah, you'd think if you have a registered account there's no need for captchas
  797. # [19:20] <Hixie> nothing stops spammers from registering accounts and then generating 10,000 spammy domains
  798. # [19:21] <Hixie> ok any others while i'm at it?
  799. # [19:21] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  800. # [19:22] <zewt> well, assuming a captcha is required for creating accounts, that means the spammy domains can all be associated with the user and bulk deleted
  801. # [19:22] <annevk> Hixie: I used to edit Notifications, but I guess I'll wait to see if the W3C finishes that
  802. # [19:22] <Hixie> zewt: once you notice them
  803. # [19:23] <Hixie> ok. i'll mail you the e-mails once i get them.
  804. # [19:23] <Hixie> anne@annevk.nl?
  805. # [19:23] * Quits: jernoble (~jernoble@17.212.152.13) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
  806. # [19:24] <annevk> Hixie: annevk@annevk.nl
  807. # [19:24] * Joins: say2joe (~say2joe@204.56.108.2)
  808. # [19:24] <Hixie> lol. http://www.whatwg.org/specs/README -- and people say i was unrealistic with my 2022 date.
  809. # [19:25] * Quits: auchenberg (~auchenber@176.222.239.226) (Remote host closed the connection)
  810. # [19:25] * Joins: auchenberg (~auchenber@176.222.239.226)
  811. # [19:26] <Hixie> annevk: no dom.specs.whatwg.org?
  812. # [19:26] * Joins: thisgeek (~chris@ool-45757782.dyn.optonline.net)
  813. # [19:26] <annevk> Hixie: http://dom.spec.whatwg.org exists
  814. # [19:26] <Hixie> oh right that's the one we jumped through hoops for
  815. # [19:26] * Quits: arunranga (~otherarun@rrcs-208-105-93-170.nyc.biz.rr.com) (Quit: arunranga)
  816. # [19:26] <annevk> Hixie: yeah, we could move it back, but might as well leave as is for now
  817. # [19:26] <Hixie> please yes let's not move that again!
  818. # [19:27] <annevk> maybe we should have redirects from specs to spec seeing how you already make that mistake
  819. # [19:28] <Hixie> not sure how to do that
  820. # [19:30] * Quits: auchenberg (~auchenber@176.222.239.226) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  821. # [19:30] * Quits: deane (~deane@203.184.22.238) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  822. # [19:32] <annevk> Philip` did something like that once for his philip.html5.org domain
  823. # [19:32] <Hixie> on dreamhost?
  824. # [19:32] <Hixie> wonder how
  825. # [19:32] <annevk> can set up some kind of wildcard DNS match for *.specs.whatwg.org
  826. # [19:32] * Quits: harrylong (~chatzilla@203.184.22.238) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  827. # [19:32] <annevk> but where you catch that I'm less sure about
  828. # [19:32] <annevk> Philip`?
  829. # [19:33] * Quits: necolas (~necolas@8.25.194.28) (Remote host closed the connection)
  830. # [19:33] <annevk> gotta go
  831. # [19:34] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@212.238.236.229) (Remote host closed the connection)
  832. # [19:35] <scor> Hixie: so just to be sure, is this statement correct? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vocabs/2012Sep/0055.html
  833. # [19:35] <scor> in particular, which vocab decides whether it's valid to use full URIs, the vocab used in @itemtype, or the vocab defining the full URI?
  834. # [19:36] <Hixie> scor: i don't believe that's right. you can add any random property you want if it's got a URL-based name.
  835. # [19:37] <Hixie> scor: the idea is you use your own proprietary URL property names to add random data to items using other people's vocabularies
  836. # [19:37] <Hixie> scor: (which is probably why the spec doesn't require a spec to define them, come to think of it)
  837. # [19:39] * Joins: deane (~deane@203.184.22.238)
  838. # [19:39] * Joins: BennyLava` (~colin@53518387.cm-6-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  839. # [19:39] * Quits: BennyLava` (~colin@53518387.cm-6-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Changing host)
  840. # [19:39] * Joins: BennyLava` (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven)
  841. # [19:40] * abstractj is now known as abstractj|lunch
  842. # [19:41] * Joins: harrylong (~chatzilla@203.184.22.238)
  843. # [19:41] * Joins: arunranga (~otherarun@rrcs-208-105-93-170.nyc.biz.rr.com)
  844. # [19:42] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@dsl82-163-105-72.as15444.net)
  845. # [19:43] * Quits: BennyLava (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  846. # [19:43] <Hixie> didn't anne also work on CORS?
  847. # [19:43] <Hixie> i wonder where that's gonna live
  848. # [19:45] * Quits: raiden-dev (~Raiden@194.154.66.59) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  849. # [19:46] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.71.130.getinternet.no)
  850. # [19:46] * BennyLava` is now known as BennyLava
  851. # [19:49] * Quits: izhak (~izhak@188.244.183.63) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  852. # [19:50] * Quits: drublic (~drublic@p5098a42b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
  853. # [19:56] * Quits: arunranga (~otherarun@rrcs-208-105-93-170.nyc.biz.rr.com) (Quit: arunranga)
  854. # [19:57] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@94.42.88.38)
  855. # [20:00] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@nat/mozilla/x-lmbrzjhhpvplevks)
  856. # [20:03] * Joins: shepazu (~shepazu@16-68.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch)
  857. # [20:05] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.71.130.getinternet.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
  858. # [20:08] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  859. # [20:08] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  860. # [20:10] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@dsl82-163-105-72.as15444.net) (Quit: tantek)
  861. # [20:13] * Joins: jernoble (~jernoble@17.212.152.13)
  862. # [20:13] * Quits: nonge__ (~nonge@p5082B32B.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: Verlassend)
  863. # [20:16] * Joins: henrikkok (~henrikkok@3306ds3-amb.0.fullrate.dk)
  864. # [20:22] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@client195-215.wlan.hu-berlin.de) (Quit: MikeSmith)
  865. # [20:27] * Quits: shepazu (~shepazu@16-68.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch) (Quit: shepazu)
  866. # [20:30] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@a82-161-179-17.adsl.xs4all.nl)
  867. # [20:31] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199)
  868. # [20:32] <annevk> Hixie: that's "fetch"
  869. # [20:32] <annevk> Hixie: bit forward looking maybe...
  870. # [20:33] <annevk> Hixie: but since CORS is done (imo) I thought I put it there with some placeholder text to see if anyone is interested in merging CORS and HTML fetch
  871. # [20:34] <annevk> Hixie: and I also maintained Progress Events which I plan to fold into xhr
  872. # [20:35] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert@BSN-61-120-169.dial-up.dsl.siol.net)
  873. # [20:40] * abstractj|lunch is now known as abstractj
  874. # [20:43] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  875. # [20:44] * Joins: svl (~me@84-50-143-14-dsl.rkv.estpak.ee)
  876. # [20:45] <heycam> yes, flexbox (or generally applying CSS layout models) to SVG content!
  877. # [20:46] <heycam> I think that is the way to go
  878. # [20:47] * Joins: jamesr_ (jamesr@nat/google/x-wzctfvilkjzrwxxz)
  879. # [20:47] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  880. # [20:48] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.111.198) (Quit: othermaciej)
  881. # [20:49] * Quits: jamesr_ (jamesr@nat/google/x-wzctfvilkjzrwxxz) (Client Quit)
  882. # [20:50] * Quits: jamesr (jamesr@nat/google/x-thgujuzmzyhrymfc) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  883. # [20:50] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@82-68-239-38.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk)
  884. # [20:51] <Hixie> annevk: k
  885. # [20:53] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@82-68-239-38.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  886. # [20:54] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@82-68-239-38.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk)
  887. # [20:58] * Quits: tawhuac (~tawhuac@190.71.251.96) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  888. # [20:59] * Joins: shepazu (~shepazu@16-68.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch)
  889. # [21:00] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@82-68-239-38.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  890. # [21:00] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@82-68-239-38.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk)
  891. # [21:02] * Joins: dgathright_ (~dgathrigh@c-67-169-92-165.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  892. # [21:02] * Quits: dgathright_ (~dgathrigh@c-67-169-92-165.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  893. # [21:03] * Joins: dgathright_ (~dgathrigh@lo5.cfw-a-gci.corp.ukl.yahoo.com)
  894. # [21:04] * Quits: dgathright (~dgathrigh@nat/yahoo/x-bgmjbijxcngxmnkf) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  895. # [21:04] * dgathright_ is now known as dgathright
  896. # [21:04] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert@BSN-61-120-169.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) (Quit: sedovsek)
  897. # [21:05] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@2620:149:f01:201:5c5b:deda:3026:c452)
  898. # [21:06] * Joins: fishd_ (darin@nat/google/x-vpxezhoqevhdrpdr)
  899. # [21:06] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@78.208.93.24)
  900. # [21:07] * Joins: gavin__ (~gavin@people1.scl3.mozilla.com)
  901. # [21:07] * Joins: krawchyk_ (~krawchyk@65.220.49.251)
  902. # [21:07] * Quits: BennyLava (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven) (*.net *.split)
  903. # [21:07] * Quits: yoshiaki (~yoshiaki@31-35-36.wireless.csail.mit.edu) (*.net *.split)
  904. # [21:07] * Quits: abstractj (~abstractj@redhat/jboss/abstractj) (*.net *.split)
  905. # [21:07] * Quits: fishd (darin@nat/google/x-zhotxfqdiftujnbx) (*.net *.split)
  906. # [21:07] * Quits: gavin (~gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (*.net *.split)
  907. # [21:07] * Quits: Dreago (~Dreagos@65.31.65.114) (*.net *.split)
  908. # [21:07] * Quits: falken (falken@nat/google/x-wehnrijhccvyqwcx) (*.net *.split)
  909. # [21:07] * Quits: jarib (~jarib@unaffiliated/jarib) (*.net *.split)
  910. # [21:08] * Joins: Calthropstu (~Dreagos@65.31.65.114)
  911. # [21:08] * Joins: jarib (~jarib@unaffiliated/jarib)
  912. # [21:08] * Joins: BennyLava (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven)
  913. # [21:08] * Joins: yoshiaki (~yoshiaki@31-35-36.wireless.csail.mit.edu)
  914. # [21:08] * Joins: abstractj (~abstractj@redhat/jboss/abstractj)
  915. # [21:08] * Joins: falken (falken@nat/google/x-wehnrijhccvyqwcx)
  916. # [21:08] * Joins: gavin (~gavin@firefox/developer/gavin)
  917. # [21:09] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@82-68-239-38.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  918. # [21:09] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@82-68-239-38.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk)
  919. # [21:10] * Quits: gavin (~gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  920. # [21:10] * Quits: falken (falken@nat/google/x-wehnrijhccvyqwcx) (Remote host closed the connection)
  921. # [21:10] * Joins: falken (falken@nat/google/x-zjghveplfevuaiwo)
  922. # [21:10] * Quits: krawchyk (~krawchyk@65.220.49.251) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  923. # [21:11] * Quits: abstractj (~abstractj@redhat/jboss/abstractj) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  924. # [21:13] * Quits: shepazu (~shepazu@16-68.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch) (Quit: shepazu)
  925. # [21:15] * Joins: abstractj (~abstractj@redhat/jboss/abstractj)
  926. # [21:15] * Joins: drublic (~drublic@frbg-5f731761.pool.mediaWays.net)
  927. # [21:16] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.71.130.getinternet.no)
  928. # [21:18] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@82-68-239-38.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  929. # [21:18] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@82-68-239-38.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk)
  930. # [21:20] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.71.130.getinternet.no) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  931. # [21:23] * Joins: jamesr (jamesr@nat/google/x-yqrrrjcqthbdanwv)
  932. # [21:26] * Joins: auchenberg (~auchenber@176.222.239.226)
  933. # [21:28] * Quits: jamesr (jamesr@nat/google/x-yqrrrjcqthbdanwv) (Quit: jamesr)
  934. # [21:30] * Quits: auchenberg (~auchenber@176.222.239.226) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  935. # [21:32] * Quits: krawchyk_ (~krawchyk@65.220.49.251) (Remote host closed the connection)
  936. # [21:34] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  937. # [21:36] * Joins: jamesr (jamesr@nat/google/x-cryikcdktydexyla)
  938. # [21:36] * Joins: krawchyk (~krawchyk@65.220.49.251)
  939. # [21:37] * Quits: krawchyk (~krawchyk@65.220.49.251) (Remote host closed the connection)
  940. # [21:42] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@67.216.17.3)
  941. # [21:43] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@82-68-239-38.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  942. # [21:45] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@82-68-239-38.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk)
  943. # [21:47] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  944. # [21:48] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@nat/mozilla/x-lmbrzjhhpvplevks) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  945. # [21:49] * Joins: jamesr_ (jamesr@nat/google/x-fybfmgsuttwsedil)
  946. # [21:49] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@nat/mozilla/x-rambhscgingffusk)
  947. # [21:49] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@82-68-239-38.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  948. # [21:50] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@82-68-239-38.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk)
  949. # [21:54] * Quits: niloy (~niloy@42.106.96.55) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  950. # [21:58] * jernoble is now known as jernoble|afk
  951. # [21:58] * jernoble|afk is now known as jernoble
  952. # [21:59] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@94.42.88.38) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  953. # [22:04] * Quits: erichynds (~ehynds@64.206.121.41)
  954. # [22:06] * Quits: yoshiaki (~yoshiaki@31-35-36.wireless.csail.mit.edu) (Remote host closed the connection)
  955. # [22:06] * Joins: yoshiaki (~yoshiaki@31-35-36.wireless.csail.mit.edu)
  956. # [22:10] * Quits: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron) (Quit: Leaving.)
  957. # [22:10] * Joins: yoshiaki_ (~yoshiaki@31-35-36.wireless.csail.mit.edu)
  958. # [22:10] * Quits: yoshiaki (~yoshiaki@31-35-36.wireless.csail.mit.edu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  959. # [22:10] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@67.216.17.3) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  960. # [22:12] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@94.42.88.38)
  961. # [22:13] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@94.42.88.38) (Client Quit)
  962. # [22:13] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@94.42.88.38)
  963. # [22:14] * Quits: jamesr (jamesr@nat/google/x-cryikcdktydexyla) (Quit: jamesr)
  964. # [22:14] <smaug____> gavin: help. can't connect to moznet. too many connection
  965. # [22:14] * Joins: tawhuac (~tawhuac@190.71.251.96)
  966. # [22:15] <smaug____> or sicking
  967. # [22:16] <sicking> smaug____: how can i help?
  968. # [22:16] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@2620:149:f01:201:5c5b:deda:3026:c452) (Quit: othermaciej)
  969. # [22:21] <smaug____> gavin: sicking: nm, I filed a bug
  970. # [22:23] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@zux221-012-118.adsl.green.ch)
  971. # [22:25] * ojan is now known as ojan_away
  972. # [22:27] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert@BSN-176-135-12.dial-up.dsl.siol.net)
  973. # [22:27] * Joins: jamesr (jamesr@nat/google/x-eaboifisvoasnzvt)
  974. # [22:28] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@94.42.88.38) (Quit: Reconnecting…)
  975. # [22:28] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@94.42.88.38)
  976. # [22:30] * Quits: maikmerten (~maikmerte@port-92-201-28-53.dynamic.qsc.de) (Quit: Leaving)
  977. # [22:31] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@94.42.88.38) (Client Quit)
  978. # [22:32] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@94.42.88.38)
  979. # [22:32] * Quits: tawhuac (~tawhuac@190.71.251.96) (Quit: Leaving)
  980. # [22:35] * Quits: yoshiaki_ (~yoshiaki@31-35-36.wireless.csail.mit.edu) (Remote host closed the connection)
  981. # [22:35] * Quits: cabanier (~cabanier@zux221-012-118.adsl.green.ch) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  982. # [22:36] * Joins: yoshiaki (~yoshiaki@31-35-36.wireless.csail.mit.edu)
  983. # [22:38] * Quits: svl (~me@84-50-143-14-dsl.rkv.estpak.ee) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  984. # [22:39] * Quits: yoshiaki (~yoshiaki@31-35-36.wireless.csail.mit.edu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  985. # [22:40] * Joins: yoshiaki (~yoshiaki@31-35-36.wireless.csail.mit.edu)
  986. # [22:42] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.111.198)
  987. # [22:43] * Quits: jamesr (jamesr@nat/google/x-eaboifisvoasnzvt) (Quit: jamesr)
  988. # [22:45] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@94.42.88.38) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  989. # [22:50] * Joins: jamesr (jamesr@nat/google/x-omkfqwmfuqqshcav)
  990. # [22:50] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@78.208.93.24) (Remote host closed the connection)
  991. # [22:54] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@82-68-239-38.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) (Quit: tantek)
  992. # [22:59] * Joins: arunranga (~otherarun@pool-71-125-206-32.nycmny.east.verizon.net)
  993. # [23:02] * Quits: yodasw16 (~yodasw16@ql1fwhide.rockfin.com) (Quit: yodasw16)
  994. # [23:07] * Quits: MacTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
  995. # [23:07] * Joins: abarth_ (~abarth@216.239.55.138)
  996. # [23:08] * Quits: abarth_ (~abarth@216.239.55.138) (Client Quit)
  997. # [23:09] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199) (Remote host closed the connection)
  998. # [23:13] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com) (Quit: Leaving...)
  999. # [23:18] * Quits: thisgeek (~chris@ool-45757782.dyn.optonline.net) (Quit: thisgeek)
  1000. # [23:19] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@94.42.88.38)
  1001. # [23:21] * Quits: Maurice` (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  1002. # [23:21] * Joins: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  1003. # [23:25] * abstractj is now known as abstractj|away
  1004. # [23:26] * Joins: auchenberg (~auchenber@176.222.239.226)
  1005. # [23:30] * Joins: fkm (~fkm@unaffiliated/fkm)
  1006. # [23:30] * Joins: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek)
  1007. # [23:31] * Quits: auchenberg (~auchenber@176.222.239.226) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  1008. # [23:34] * Quits: drublic (~drublic@frbg-5f731761.pool.mediaWays.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1009. # [23:34] * Joins: drublic (~drublic@frbg-5f731761.pool.mediaWays.net)
  1010. # [23:39] * Quits: drublic (~drublic@frbg-5f731761.pool.mediaWays.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  1011. # [23:45] * Joins: thisgeek (~chris@ool-45757d25.dyn.optonline.net)
  1012. # [23:47] * Quits: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek) (Quit: jarek)
  1013. # [23:47] * Joins: Smylers (~smylers@host86-179-136-136.range86-179.btcentralplus.com)
  1014. # [23:49] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@dsl82-163-96-158.as15444.net)
  1015. # [23:51] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@78.208.93.24)
  1016. # [23:54] * Joins: miketayl_r (~miketaylr@70-3-230-70.pools.spcsdns.net)
  1017. # Session Close: Wed Sep 12 00:00:00 2012

The end :)