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- # Session Start: Tue Sep 11 00:00:01 2012
- # Session Ident: #whatwg
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- # [00:02] <gavinc> Hixie: canvas is media independent?
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- # [00:27] <Hixie> gavinc: you can't put HTML in canvas either
- # [00:28] <Hixie> gavinc: i don't have a problem with embedding media-specific components in HTML, e.g. <img>, <canvas>, or <svg>. What I'm arguing is that they shouldn't be merged, as in, you're in the middle of SVG and you just randomly break out into HTML, then back into SVG, etc.
- # [00:28] <Hixie> gavinc: (plus, <canvas> and <img> require that the author provide non-graphical alternatives)
- # [00:29] <zewt> (for a fake, handwaving value of "require" :)
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- # [00:36] <jamesr> Hixie, but having a <foreignContent> / <svg> boundary makes jumping in/out OK? what's the difference?
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- # [00:39] <Hixie> jamesr: i don't think it makes it particularly ok, no
- # [00:39] <Hixie> jamesr: i think where svg would make sense is in something like web components
- # [00:40] <Hixie> (<foreignObject> makes sense in SVG proper because there you're not pretending to be using a media-neutral language, and so you can use HTML for its features while still being fully aware it's still media-specific)
- # [00:42] <jamesr> i see, so you just think <svg> doesn't make sense in HTML
- # [00:42] <Hixie> no, i think HTML doesn't make sense inside SVG inside HTML
- # [00:43] <Hixie> SVG in HTML makes sense just like PNG in HTML makes sense
- # [00:43] <Hixie> or <audio> in HTML makes sense
- # [00:43] <Hixie> sometimes you have some media-specific content to place in a media-neutral discussion
- # [00:44] <Hixie> this is similar to how it makes sense to have a PDF in an <iframe>, but not <font> in a <p>
- # [00:44] <jamesr_> so what's wrong with that media-specific content embedding media-neutral content?
- # [00:44] <TabAtkins> Hixie: In my railroad diagrams http://www.xanthir.com/etc/railroad-diagrams/example.html I need to do a *stupid* "guess at metrics and hope" or else "manually measure text" just to get a styled box. Including a simple <span> in SVG would solve those problems.
- # [00:45] <Hixie> TabAtkins: the "right" solution is IMHO to have SVG have something like flexbox but for graphics
- # [00:45] <TabAtkins> SVG could add its own primitives that do the same thing, but that's just duplication of the same nasty variety that led to SVG's <script> and <style>, not to mention Tiny's <audio> and <video>.
- # [00:45] <TabAtkins> No, the right solution is to *use the technology we have in front of us instead of inventing something new for no reason*.
- # [00:46] <Hixie> maybe i'm misunderstanding why you are measuring text
- # [00:46] <TabAtkins> So I can make it look like it's inside of a box.
- # [00:46] <Hixie> if you just want a box to size to its contents and for all graphics that point to that box to adjust accordingly, HTML ain't gonna help you.
- # [00:46] <TabAtkins> That's a <text> and an *independent* <rect> element, positioned so that it looks like one is inside the other.
- # [00:46] <gavinc> TabAtkins: ... that page is supposed to not work right?
- # [00:46] <TabAtkins> Um, whoops.
- # [00:46] <TabAtkins> gavinc: I, um, messed it up. One sec.
- # [00:46] <Hixie> TabAtkins: i don't see what that has to do with HTML
- # [00:47] <gavinc> TabAtkins: Ah! Thanks :D
- # [00:47] <Hixie> jamesr: my problem is with people who write pages intended for the web that only work on one medium, when they should be able to work on any medium.
- # [00:47] <TabAtkins> gavinc: Fixed.
- # [00:47] <TabAtkins> Hixie: I think you're not understanding me quite right, and assume I'm asking for soemthing weird. I'll start small.
- # [00:48] <TabAtkins> So, see those boxes of text. They are *not* boxes of text, because SVG doesn't handle text well. Instead, they're a <rect> and a <text> element, independent siblings, which are positioned on top of each other such that they *look* like a box full of text.
- # [00:49] <TabAtkins> This is, obviously, stupid. The shortest path to a solution is to pull in HTML, so I can just put in a <span> and style it like normal CSS, with border and background.
- # [00:49] <Hixie> TabAtkins: yes
- # [00:49] <Hixie> TabAtkins: o_O
- # [00:49] <Hixie> TabAtkins: that seems like a non-sequitur to me
- # [00:49] <Hixie> TabAtkins: HTML doesn't have any elements with boxes
- # [00:49] <TabAtkins> ?_?
- # [00:49] <Hixie> TabAtkins: if you are saying you want the _CSS box model_ in SVG, then that's got nothing to do with HTML.
- # [00:50] <Hixie> TabAtkins: and that i would support
- # [00:50] <TabAtkins> Sure, theoretically. But <text> *does not work like span* (or <p> for that matter). Adding an <svg:span> or <svg:p> that *does* work correctly with the css 'inline' or 'block' model is just nasty, useless duplication.
- # [00:51] <Hixie> i have no idea what you mean by "work like span"
- # [00:51] <TabAtkins> I mean "work like an abspos display:inline element".
- # [00:51] <TabAtkins> <text> has its own crazy handling which can't be changed at this point.
- # [00:51] <Hixie> that's an entirely different, unrelated, and orthogonal statement.
- # [00:51] <Hixie> "span" is not "display:inline"
- # [00:52] <Hixie> they are literally orthogonal facets
- # [00:52] <Hixie> well not literally
- # [00:52] <TabAtkins> Dude, bro, I don't care. The point is, I want normal text in my SVG without having to add <svg:span> to the language.
- # [00:52] <Hixie> "span" is no more "display:inline" than "h1" is "loud volume"
- # [00:52] <TabAtkins> I also want <video>, etc, in the same way.
- # [00:53] <Hixie> i am entirely in favour of making it possible to use the CSS box model in SVG
- # [00:53] <Hixie> (by the way, that's what <foreignObject> does)
- # [00:53] <TabAtkins> Yes, but <foreignObject> is stupid and cumbersome.
- # [00:53] <Hixie> ?
- # [00:53] <Hixie> how so
- # [00:53] <TabAtkins> And fundamentally *does not work* for the kinds of things I want.
- # [00:53] * Hixie files a preemptive ticket to get Tab a new asterisk key :-P
- # [00:53] <TabAtkins> For one, it's an extra long-named wrapper object. For two, I need to declare a namespace. For three, it needs a defined width and height.
- # [00:54] <Hixie> why do you need to declare a namespace
- # [00:54] <Hixie> <foreignObject> My Text </foreignObject>
- # [00:54] <TabAtkins> Because otherwise you're using elements in an arbitrary XML dialect, or maybe in just SVG, I dunno.
- # [00:55] <Hixie> oh wait, <foreignObject> it self isn't a positioned CSS box, is it
- # [00:55] <TabAtkins> That super doesn't work. There's nothing to hang the CSS box model off of there, and it still need a 'width' and 'height' attribute specified.
- # [00:55] <TabAtkins> Nope, it's an SVG box.
- # [00:55] <Hixie> ok so just get a new element that is a positioned CSS box or whatever
- # [00:55] <Hixie> <box>
- # [00:55] <TabAtkins> (All elements in SVG are forced into the SVG display model.)
- # [00:55] <Hixie> anyway this has no more to do with HTML than it does with MAthML
- # [00:55] <TabAtkins> So, then what? I have a <box>. What do I put in it? Just plain text?
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- # [00:55] <Hixie> whatever you want, same as in CSS-styled raw XML
- # [00:56] <TabAtkins> That's a dumb solution. CSS-styled raw XML is cumbersome.
- # [00:56] <TabAtkins> Plus much less featureful.
- # [00:56] <Hixie> it's not a dumb solution
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- # [00:57] <TabAtkins> I'm not sure how you can say "just use raw XML from an arbitrary language" is better than "use HTML".
- # [00:58] <TabAtkins> Where "use HTML" has things like "yay, free styling/accessibility for <em>! yay, <video>! yay, <details>! yay, everything else that HTML gives me for free, and that I'd have to reinvent manually in raw XML!"
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- # [01:04] <TabAtkins> Anyway, back to the original question.
- # [01:04] <TabAtkins> annevk: You said WHATWG if I wanted to change HTML parsing. I shouldn't need to, I don't think...
- # [01:04] * TabAtkins goes to check the parser.
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- # [01:07] <Hixie> your use case was text with a box using the CSS inline box model, and didn't mention anything that would result in us even considering <video>, <details>, or <em>. If there are other use cases, then we should consider those as well.
- # [01:07] <Hixie> but so far I haven't seen any.
- # [01:07] <Hixie> (note that <video> in Tiny and <video> in HTML are quite different and have different use cases)
- # [01:07] <TabAtkins> Those other cases come along for the ride. :/ If I'm putting text in a diagram, *obviously* I sometimes want to emphasize parts of it.
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- # [01:08] <Hixie> you want to emphasise it, or you want to italicise it?
- # [01:08] <TabAtkins> Both.
- # [01:08] <Hixie> can you elaborate on your use case for emphasis?
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- # [01:08] <TabAtkins> The entire set of inline-type elements have useful semantics for text inside of diagrams.
- # [01:08] <Hixie> i don't understand how or why
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- # [01:08] <TabAtkins> I don't understand how you dont' understand. :/ You have text. In a diagram. Some of that text may be emphatic.
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- # [01:09] <Hixie> your use case seems circular :-)
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- # [01:09] <TabAtkins> How so?
- # [01:09] * TabAtkins doesn't understand.
- # [01:10] <Hixie> you want to be able to mark text as emphasised because you have text that is emphasised?
- # [01:11] <TabAtkins> ...yes?
- # [01:11] <Hixie> do you also want to be able to mark verbs?
- # [01:11] <TabAtkins> I'd like to be able to mark up text with the same set of semantics that HTML grants, because that set has proven useful over time. (Some of the set is just legacy, but including them doesn't harm anything.)
- # [01:12] <TabAtkins> This set of semantics is already mapped to presentation in other formats, like screen readers.
- # [01:12] <TabAtkins> It is the lingua franca of text semantics on the web.
- # [01:12] <Hixie> it has proven to be useful in particular because HTML can be rendered to multiple media, including in particular speech, braille, and visual media. This doesn't seem to apply when the use case is specifically for graphical diagrams.
- # [01:13] <Hixie> hence my asking you what the use case is
- # [01:13] <zewt> uh, no, "multiple media" has very very little to do with the wide use of html
- # [01:13] <TabAtkins> And that's incorrect. For example, an SVG diagram can be combined with a pointing device that reads out text at the given point, to help low-vision users.
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- # [01:13] <TabAtkins> This already exists, I believe.
- # [01:13] <Hixie> zewt: the set being useful has very little to do with the wide use of HTML too
- # [01:13] <TabAtkins> Expanding the set of textual semantics usable in this situation is a win.
- # [01:14] <Hixie> TabAtkins: aha, a new use case
- # [01:14] <zewt> it's fine for you to consider it important, but don't pretend it's a bigger factor for its success than it is
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- # [01:14] <Hixie> zewt: i don't believe i pretended anything was a success?
- # [01:14] <Hixie> zewt: not sure what you're arguing against :-)
- # [01:15] <zewt> you said that multiple media is a significant ("particular") reason for HTML having been proven useful; really, it's a tiny, tiny piece
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- # [01:15] <TabAtkins> zewt: We're not talking about HTML's suitability in general, so it's not necessary to defend its honor in this instance.
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- # [01:16] <Hixie> TabAtkins: you should describe the use cases somewhere, rather than start with the solution you prefer, because it's not clear to me that the solution you prefer is a logical result of the use cases you've presented so far, but i can't tell if that's because it's a bad solution or if the use cases are incomplete (or both).
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- # [01:16] <TabAtkins> Since, on inspection, this *will* require minor parser changes of some kind, I'll make a post on WHATWG.
- # [01:16] <zewt> TabAtkins: i may be doing the opposite of defending its honor, since i'm saying HTML would be just-about as successful if it didn't support multiple media :)
- # [01:16] <Hixie> zewt: i'm specifically talking about the semantics of certain inline elements, most of which are vastly underused and are definitely not what i would call a "success", at least not on the level of HTML overall
- # [01:17] <Hixie> TabAtkins: please be sure to start (and possibly stop, if you can :-) ) with use cases, at least in your first post :-)
- # [01:17] <TabAtkins> (To somehow avoid the "when you see an HTML element, POP EVERYTHING until you get out of the SVG context.)
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- # [04:11] <Hixie> hm. opera and webkit render this poorly due to an HTML parsing issue: http://www.thezorklibrary.com/history/00-encyclopedia.html
- # [04:11] <Hixie> gecko doesn't
- # [04:11] <Hixie> gecko bug? spec bug?
- # [04:11] <Hixie> opera and webkit bug?
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- # [04:23] <zewt> fine in ie9
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- # [09:17] <zcorpan> Hixie: did they talk to you before removing the license paragraph?
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- # [09:18] <Hixie> no
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- # [09:37] <zcorpan> booo
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- # [09:39] <MarkusDBX> Should html/css validation be used in the year of 2012? In that case... what is the best validator to date? That follows the WHATWG version of html? Thank you.
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- # [09:41] <zcorpan> why would the year make a difference? a validator is a quality assurance tool (like a spell checker)
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- # [09:42] <zcorpan> http://validator.nu/ for html validation
- # [09:43] <zcorpan> i can't recommend a css validator but browsers usually flag things they think are invalid in css in their error consoles, so that's what i usually use to find errors in my css
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- # [09:46] <MarkusDBX> zcorpan: sounds reasonable. I just mentioned the year, since the html-spec has changed somewhat i the last years. I used to use the w3c validator, but in the last years we have just used the browser-errors.
- # [09:47] <MarkusDBX> zcorpan: I now look for even better QA to make our clients even more happy.
- # [09:47] <zcorpan> yeah the validator isn't perfectly up-to-date with the spec, but then again browsers also aren't
- # [09:48] <zcorpan> if you find bugs in the validator, file it here: http://bugzilla.validator.nu/ :-)
- # [09:48] <MarkusDBX> Is chrome or ff the better validator?
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- # [09:48] <zcorpan> for css?
- # [09:49] <MarkusDBX> for css.
- # [09:49] <zcorpan> i'd recommend checking in multiple browsers since they might not all support the same set of features
- # [09:49] <MarkusDBX> ah. I see
- # [09:50] <MarkusDBX> zcorpan: any other good advice to improve QA?
- # [09:50] <zcorpan> MarkusDBX: http://blog.whatwg.org/quality-assurance-tools-for-html5
- # [09:51] <MarkusDBX> great
- # [09:51] <MarkusDBX> zcorpan: thanks alot
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- # [09:53] <zcorpan> MarkusDBX: on a different level, i'd recommend user testing to get better user experience, and automated regression testing so you get to know when something stops working before your users find out and someone tells you instead of going to your competitor :-)
- # [09:56] <a-ja> Hixie: anyone bringing up issues with <track default> ?
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- # [10:00] <a-ja> Hixie: asking cuz I was trying out a webvtt polyfill that would only use chapters if default'ed...so one would have to have two defaults specified....one for subtitles/captions and another for chapters.
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- # [10:02] <a-ja> Hixie: which suggests a use case......to select language for chapters as well as subtitles/captions
- # [10:02] <a-ja> Hixie: thoughts?
- # [10:03] <zcorpan> a-ja: there's a bug
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- # [10:04] <zcorpan> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17877
- # [10:04] <a-ja> zcorpan:ah....musta missed it. #?
- # [10:04] <a-ja> k...tks
- # [10:05] <zcorpan> a-ja: for now, i'd recommend explicitly setting .mode instead of relying on default=""
- # [10:06] <a-ja> .mode ??? guess i have some more reading to do.
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- # [10:07] <zcorpan> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/the-video-element.html#dom-texttrack-mode
- # [10:08] <zcorpan> (if you want to expose the chapters yourself and don't want the browser to render them somehow, use "hidden")
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- # [10:17] <a-ja> zcorpan: mode's not an attribute of the track element, but changeable in DOM via js?
- # [10:17] <zcorpan> right
- # [10:17] <zcorpan> track_element.track.mode = 'hidden'
- # [10:17] <a-ja> hrm
- # [10:18] <zcorpan> setting mode triggers the track to load
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- # [10:19] <zcorpan> see http://simon.html5.org/presentations/foms-2012/ for an example
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- # [10:21] <a-ja> zcorpan: leanback player's the one that required default on chapter track for it to show up in its UI, iirc
- # [10:23] * a-ja is really trying to not have to use js
- # [10:23] <zcorpan> a-ja: ok, well, until the spec has fixed its rules around default="", i'd recommend leanback player to hook in to a custom data- attribute and set mode explicitly :-)
- # [10:24] <a-ja> zcorpan: that'd make sense.....esp since it's already using data- for fallback stuff
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- # [10:27] <zcorpan> a-ja: is http://discussion.leanbackplayer.com/categories/development their bug tracker?
- # [10:27] <a-ja> no biggie for me...strictly for my intranet use...so i don't have to rely on polyfills or even flash fallback. just thought perhaps i'd stumbled on a possibly unknown use case for default-per-type
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- # [10:30] <a-ja> zcorpan: dunno...just tried a few different polyfills briefly (before abandoning them as superfluous for my needs)
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- # [10:51] <zcorpan> a-ja: filed http://discussion.leanbackplayer.com/discussion/153/default-attribute-for-chapters
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- # [10:53] <a-ja> zcorpan: fwiw, there's a new beta out this month....i likely have the prior beta
- # [10:54] <zcorpan> ok. i haven't tried it at all, i've just stolen their captions for my demo :-P
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- # [12:20] <annevk> karlcow: watching them more or less in chronological order
- # [12:20] <annevk> karlcow: at least the purported trilogy (still need to see 2046)
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- # [13:20] <zcorpan> Hixie: minimized to http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/1757
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- # [13:22] <zcorpan> seems it's related to the "don't reconstruct more than three identical elements" thing
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- # [13:25] <zcorpan> i can't wrap my head around AAA so i can't tell if it's a spec bug or not
- # [13:25] <zcorpan> but i'll file a opera bug
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- # [14:29] <zcorpan> sigh. why do web shops send me my password in plain text in email?
- # [14:31] <zcorpan> and also "security tips" like i should change my password every 6 months
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- # [14:45] <annevk> sweet
- # [14:45] <annevk> the github setup works great
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- # [15:27] <annevk> Hixie: when you're awake again, can you give me encoding.spec.whatwg.org / xhr.spec.whatwg.org / fullscreen.spec.whatwg.org
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- # [16:04] <zcorpan> Hixie: apparently the spec is right (re AAA)
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- # [16:15] <zcorpan> (filed https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96385 )
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- # [16:45] <annevk> Hixie: might as well create url.spec and fetch.spec (for CORS, later fetch) while you're at it
- # [16:46] <annevk> Hixie: thinking about merging Progress Events into XMLHttpRequest
- # [16:46] <annevk> dunno about Web Notifications
- # [16:46] <annevk> anyone with opinions?
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- # [16:47] <darobin> annevk: would it change anything other than document organisation?
- # [16:47] <annevk> darobin: the merging?
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- # [16:48] <darobin> yeah
- # [16:48] <annevk> not really, mostly easier for me
- # [16:48] <darobin> then *shrug*
- # [16:48] <annevk> well yeah, I actually meant about Web Notifications
- # [16:49] <annevk> I guess we can fork that too, but maybe wait a bit to see what happens first
- # [16:49] <annevk> there's no hurry
- # [16:49] <darobin> ah, gotcha
- # [16:50] <annevk> Hixie: interested in using https://github.com/whatwg too?
- # [16:50] <annevk> I suppose it should handle things as large as HTML
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- # [16:51] <darobin> annevk: it handles them just fine :)
- # [16:52] <darobin> in fact, it's even fucking fast, considering
- # [16:52] <annevk> ah yeah, you guys are using github too
- # [16:52] <annevk> sweet
- # [16:52] <jgraham> Hmm, I tried importing the HTML spec into git once, with the full history
- # [16:52] <darobin> annevk: to make your life easier you could even just clone https://github.com/w3c/html/tree/feature/whatwg ;-)
- # [16:52] <jgraham> and it worked fine
- # [16:53] <jgraham> But it was *big*
- # [16:53] <jgraham> and github didn;t like it
- # [16:53] <darobin> the first import takes a while
- # [16:53] <darobin> jgraham: the W3C repo has all the SVN history from WHATWG
- # [16:54] <darobin> in fact, in theory we could all use the same repo just with different branches
- # [16:54] * darobin puts flowers in his head
- # [16:54] <annevk> heh, fork the W3C copy of the WHATWG copy of HTML to WHATWG
- # [16:54] <darobin> :)
- # [16:58] <jgraham> darobin: Pretty sure you are only suppose to put the flowers in your hair, not try to penetrate the skull
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- # [17:54] <scor> where in the microdta spec does it say that a property cannot be used in its ful URI form if the vocabulary specifying it does not allow it?
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- # [18:27] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
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- # [18:29] <david_carlisle> TabAtkins: Yes please we (mathematicians everywhere) want to be able to do commutative diagrams by just naturally nesting mathml in svg in html, it almost but not quite "just works"
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- # [19:00] <Hixie> scor: properties don't have "full URI forms" unlsess a vocabulary specifies it
- # [19:00] <Hixie> annevk: what username should i use for you, assuming we're not going through the hoops we went through last time?
- # [19:01] <Hixie> annevk: re github, i have no reason to use github
- # [19:01] <scor> Hixie: ok, so the vocab author would have to specify both the short form and the full URI for both of them to be usable and valid?
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- # [19:01] <Hixie> scor: yeah, though i wouldn't recommend it. You could end up with items that have two values for the property.
- # [19:01] <Hixie> scor: you'd really have to define them as separate properties and say which one takes preference, etc
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- # [19:02] <jgraham> Hixie: (FWIW if you used github it would be better for me in a few small ways e.g. the revision list would be better than annevk's thing)
- # [19:02] <scor> for example one could define both 'http://example.com/fn' and 'fn'
- # [19:02] <scor> and have the same definition for both
- # [19:02] <jgraham> (so that is one small reason)
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- # [19:02] <Hixie> jgraham: i think darobin's crew has that covered already
- # [19:02] <Hixie> scor: say you defined both of those to mean "biological mother"
- # [19:02] <jgraham> Hixie: Only to the extent that they pull in all the cvhanges you make
- # [19:03] <scor> Hixie: but I understand that even if both were defined, values using each would not be equivalent
- # [19:03] <Hixie> scor: and an item had both set, pointing at different other items...
- # [19:03] <jgraham> Which theya re sure not to
- # [19:03] <Hixie> scor: you'd just have to say which takes precedence (and say that it's not conforming to have both, so validators of that vocabulary could complain)
- # [19:03] <scor> ok
- # [19:03] <Hixie> jgraham: they have a branch on which they are doing so, i believe
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- # [19:04] <scor> Hixie: now, where in the spec does it say that it is not valid to use a full URI for a property if the vocabulary does not define it?
- # [19:04] <jgraham> So they have one branch that is precisely the WHATWG spec?
- # [19:04] <jgraham> Interesting
- # [19:04] <scor> or is that implicit?
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- # [19:04] <Hixie> scor: the spec says it's not valid to use a property that isn't defined, iirc
- # [19:04] <Hixie> scor: if you have a vocabulary type
- # [19:04] <scor> Hixie: I'm looking at http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/microdata.html#selecting-names-when-defining-vocabularies
- # [19:04] <scor> (hope it's the right place)
- # [19:05] <Hixie> That section is non-normative
- # [19:05] <Hixie> you want http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/microdata.html#names:-the-itemprop-attribute for the nitty gritty
- # [19:05] <Hixie> hm, i guess it does allow URLs always
- # [19:05] <Hixie> interesting
- # [19:06] <scor> is it a bug?
- # [19:06] <scor> should it disallow them?
- # [19:06] <scor> (if not defined in the vocab)
- # [19:06] <Hixie> yeah, it's a bug. It should only allow URLs that are defined to be properties.
- # [19:07] <Hixie> same as itemtype=""
- # [19:08] <Hixie> filed https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18837
- # [19:08] * Hixie pokes annevk
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- # [19:11] <annevk> Hixie: if annevk is taken, anne or annevankesteren
- # [19:12] <annevk> Hixie: or avankest for some irony
- # [19:12] <Hixie> i think annevk is taken by you
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- # [19:12] <Hixie> anne is taken too, now trying annevankesteren
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- # [19:13] <Hixie> ok, created user. now the domains
- # [19:13] <Hixie> annevk: which subdomains did you want again? can you list them all, comma separated?
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- # [19:14] <annevk> url.spec.whatwg.org, xhr.spec.whatwg.org, encoding.spec.whatwg.org, fullscreen.spec.whatwg.org, fetch.spec.whatwg.org
- # [19:14] <Hixie> url, xhr, encoding, fullscreen, and fetch. ok
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- # [19:14] <Hixie> after this i'll be up to 80 subdomains and domains on my plan, sheesh
- # [19:15] <annevk> heh
- # [19:15] <annevk> these could've been directories :p
- # [19:15] <Hixie> do you have a preference for directory structure in /home/annevankesteren/?
- # [19:15] <Hixie> just .../url.spec.whatwg.org/... ?
- # [19:16] <annevk> yeah that's fine
- # [19:16] <annevk> just defaults
- # [19:16] <annevk> only need to put a small script there
- # [19:16] <Hixie> roger
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- # [19:17] <Hixie> freaking captchas
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- # [19:19] <annevk> yeah, you'd think if you have a registered account there's no need for captchas
- # [19:20] <Hixie> nothing stops spammers from registering accounts and then generating 10,000 spammy domains
- # [19:21] <Hixie> ok any others while i'm at it?
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- # [19:22] <zewt> well, assuming a captcha is required for creating accounts, that means the spammy domains can all be associated with the user and bulk deleted
- # [19:22] <annevk> Hixie: I used to edit Notifications, but I guess I'll wait to see if the W3C finishes that
- # [19:22] <Hixie> zewt: once you notice them
- # [19:23] <Hixie> ok. i'll mail you the e-mails once i get them.
- # [19:23] <Hixie> anne@annevk.nl?
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- # [19:24] <annevk> Hixie: annevk@annevk.nl
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- # [19:24] <Hixie> lol. http://www.whatwg.org/specs/README -- and people say i was unrealistic with my 2022 date.
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- # [19:26] <Hixie> annevk: no dom.specs.whatwg.org?
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- # [19:26] <annevk> Hixie: http://dom.spec.whatwg.org exists
- # [19:26] <Hixie> oh right that's the one we jumped through hoops for
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- # [19:26] <annevk> Hixie: yeah, we could move it back, but might as well leave as is for now
- # [19:26] <Hixie> please yes let's not move that again!
- # [19:27] <annevk> maybe we should have redirects from specs to spec seeing how you already make that mistake
- # [19:28] <Hixie> not sure how to do that
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- # [19:32] <annevk> Philip` did something like that once for his philip.html5.org domain
- # [19:32] <Hixie> on dreamhost?
- # [19:32] <Hixie> wonder how
- # [19:32] <annevk> can set up some kind of wildcard DNS match for *.specs.whatwg.org
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- # [19:32] <annevk> but where you catch that I'm less sure about
- # [19:32] <annevk> Philip`?
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- # [19:33] <annevk> gotta go
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- # [19:35] <scor> Hixie: so just to be sure, is this statement correct? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vocabs/2012Sep/0055.html
- # [19:35] <scor> in particular, which vocab decides whether it's valid to use full URIs, the vocab used in @itemtype, or the vocab defining the full URI?
- # [19:36] <Hixie> scor: i don't believe that's right. you can add any random property you want if it's got a URL-based name.
- # [19:37] <Hixie> scor: the idea is you use your own proprietary URL property names to add random data to items using other people's vocabularies
- # [19:37] <Hixie> scor: (which is probably why the spec doesn't require a spec to define them, come to think of it)
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- # [19:43] <Hixie> didn't anne also work on CORS?
- # [19:43] <Hixie> i wonder where that's gonna live
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- # [20:32] <annevk> Hixie: that's "fetch"
- # [20:32] <annevk> Hixie: bit forward looking maybe...
- # [20:33] <annevk> Hixie: but since CORS is done (imo) I thought I put it there with some placeholder text to see if anyone is interested in merging CORS and HTML fetch
- # [20:34] <annevk> Hixie: and I also maintained Progress Events which I plan to fold into xhr
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- # [20:45] <heycam> yes, flexbox (or generally applying CSS layout models) to SVG content!
- # [20:46] <heycam> I think that is the way to go
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- # [20:51] <Hixie> annevk: k
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- # [22:14] <smaug____> gavin: help. can't connect to moznet. too many connection
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- # [22:15] <smaug____> or sicking
- # [22:16] <sicking> smaug____: how can i help?
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- # [22:21] <smaug____> gavin: sicking: nm, I filed a bug
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- # Session Close: Wed Sep 12 00:00:00 2012
The end :)