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- # Session Start: Fri Nov 09 00:00:00 2012
- # Session Ident: #whatwg
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- # [00:21] <TabAtkins> Anyone have an opinion on whether a <style scoped> scoped to the root element should be more specific than an unscoped stylesheet?
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- # [00:24] <TabAtkins> (Rules scoped to a descendant element are more specific than one scoped to an ancestor.)
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- # [00:25] <divya> what does more specific mean
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- # [00:25] <divya> override general html {} rule?
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- # [00:42] <TabAtkins> divya: I mean like specificity. This sets at a higher level than selector-specificity - if you're scoped at a lower element, you *automatically* win against rules scoped at a higher element.
- # [00:42] <TabAtkins> Just like !important rules auto-win against normal rules, regardless of the selector.
- # [00:44] <divya> TabAtkins: srry i am rusty on the jargon how would it look like in an e.g
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- # [02:19] * GPHemsley wonders why the IETF refers to us as WHAT-WG
- # [02:21] <GPHemsley> [22:38:11] <cyrusdaboo> MIME-Sniffing: no objections from the room to drop the draft in favor of WHAT-WG doing the work.
- # [02:21] <GPHemsley> [22:40:02] <cyrusdaboo> MIME-Sniffing: W3C had a reference to it, but now points to WHAT-WG so no issue with WG dropping it.
- # [02:22] <GPHemsley> (yay?)
- # [02:23] <GPHemsley> In other news, I hate M3U files.
- # [02:23] * jwalden guesses they're wondering, what working group?
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- # [02:23] <jwalden> ;-)
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- # [02:23] <annevk> WhatWG is also sometimes used
- # [02:24] <annevk> as the old old proverb goes, spelling is hard, lets go shopping
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- # [02:25] <annevk> GPHemsley: not sure if yay or nay that IETF decides this is not important
- # [02:27] <GPHemsley> annevk: Well, I don't know if they think it isn't important... I asked them to drop it: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/agenda/85/slides/slides-85-websec-3.pdf
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- # [02:27] <GPHemsley> (page 4, FTW)
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- # [02:29] <annevk> "from WHAT-WG" nice
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- # [02:30] <GPHemsley> Indeed.
- # [02:31] <GPHemsley> Sadly, the audio for the meeting doesn't work.
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- # [02:32] <annevk> did you try to open it in VLC?
- # [02:32] <GPHemsley> yup
- # [02:32] <GPHemsley> apparently the stream 404s
- # [02:32] <GPHemsley> It may have only been a livestream, rather than a recording
- # [02:34] <annevk> oh yeah it is
- # [02:34] <annevk> you can find recordings here: http://www.ietf.org/audio/ietf85/
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- # [02:40] <GPHemsley> oh my
- # [02:40] <GPHemsley> ok
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- # [02:43] <GPHemsley> I think this is supposed to be it, but it's very quiet: http://www.ietf.org/audio/ietf85/ietf85-grandballroomc-20121108-1730-pm3.mp3
- # [02:43] <GPHemsley> And it doesn't sound like anybody is discussing any agenda items
- # [02:43] <GPHemsley> it's also very short
- # [02:44] * GPHemsley shrugs
- # [02:44] <GPHemsley> I guess they got on alright without me
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- # [04:35] <MikeSmith> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-iri/2012Nov/0016.html
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- # [06:45] <MikeSmith> cool to see ap unilaterally declaring "consensus" based on feedback from just three people https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/FXTF/raw-file/tip/web-anim/index.html
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- # [06:46] <MikeSmith> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101660#c1
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- # [09:28] <hsivonen> patch review in the morning: r+ to flipping the default endianness for "UTF-16" in FileReader from Workers.
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- # [09:45] <hsivonen> annevk: see https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=809934#c1
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- # [09:48] <zcorpan> annevk: "Remove any leading and trailing ASCII whitespace from input." why does this only happen if /url/ is not given?
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- # [10:04] <hsivonen> https://twitter.com/ronsman/status/266692044460802048
- # [10:06] <annevk> zcorpan: state override is given if url is given
- # [10:06] <annevk> zcorpan: e.g. when you set query or pathname you don't want to strip spaces, afaict
- # [10:07] <zcorpan> annevk: ok
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- # [10:09] <annevk> I guess I should change http://url.spec.whatwg.org/#dom-url-href to not pass *url* and instead set *url* to the return value
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- # [10:11] <annevk> and it should return url when neutering
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- # [10:14] <MikeSmith> wait you're really using the term neuter in the spec?
- # [10:14] <MikeSmith> hmm so I see there's so precedent for that
- # [10:15] <annevk> "Who will defend UTF-8 from ASCII suppremacists?" :-)
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- # [10:15] <annevk> MikeSmith: I would not have come up with that term on my own
- # [10:15] <MikeSmith> heh
- # [10:15] <hsivonen> who did?
- # [10:16] <MikeSmith> postMsg
- # [10:16] <MikeSmith> I think
- # [10:16] <hsivonen> In other news, someone found a tokenizer bug in the V.nu/Firefox HTML parser
- # [10:16] <MikeSmith> oh
- # [10:16] <MikeSmith> bug number?
- # [10:17] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=809956
- # [10:17] <MikeSmith> "lighting source"?
- # [10:18] <MikeSmith> ah
- # [10:18] <MikeSmith> he means syntax highlighting?
- # [10:18] <hsivonen> the summary had me go "WTF?", too, for a while
- # [10:19] <annevk> more pruf that spelling is hard
- # [10:19] <MikeSmith> I still wondering what "Pruf" means
- # [10:19] <MikeSmith> heh
- # [10:19] <annevk> and we should just go shopping
- # [10:19] <MikeSmith> ah proof
- # [10:19] <MikeSmith> ok
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- # [10:26] <hsivonen> the tokenizer bug is rather shocking
- # [10:27] <zcorpan> hsivonen: were there more bugs in the css tests?
- # [10:27] <hsivonen> zcorpan: no, AFAICT. thanks for fixing them
- # [10:28] <zcorpan> do you pass all tests except the utf-16 endianness one?
- # [10:28] <hsivonen> zcorpan: yes (unless I forgot to reload some test)
- # [10:28] <zcorpan> nice
- # [10:29] <hsivonen> I’m waiting for advice from Ms2ger and fantasai on how to import the tests
- # [10:29] <hsivonen> it seems unprecedented to import testharness.js tests from the CSS test suite
- # [10:30] <zcorpan> i wonder if the tests should be "approved"
- # [10:33] <hsivonen> this kind of tokenizer bug arises when Hixie is lazy and writes the spec like this: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/tokenization.html#cdata-section-state
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- # [10:38] <annevk> confirmed
- # [10:38] <annevk> Opera violated IDNA2008 first
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- # [10:40] <annevk> zcorpan: Kajtan did not mention supporting more domain label separators but Opera does
- # [10:41] <annevk> zcorpan: http://mathias.html5.org/tests/url/idna2003-separators/
- # [10:41] <zcorpan> annevk: feel free to reply to the email. he's cc-ed
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- # [10:43] <annevk> hsivonen: btw, re that utf-16 bug, I'm not sure how we're gonna find out except by testing
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- # [10:44] <annevk> hsivonen: I guess the another thing that could work is not flip the default on Unicode, but mandate sniffing
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- # [10:49] <annevk> hmm no feedback yet on http://html5.org/temp/mo-queue.html
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- # [10:53] <zcorpan> hsivonen: would it be better to have separate states for "]" "]" and ">"?
- # [10:54] <zcorpan> (well i guess the ">" doesn't need a state of its own since you'd switch to the data state at that point)
- # [10:54] <annevk> hsivonen: why is that lazy? it's perfectly clear, no?
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- # [10:55] <hsivonen> annevk: well, IE compat involves willfully violating Unicode/IANA for the UTF-16 default endianness
- # [10:56] <hsivonen> annevk: the question is, should we have three independent labels that have defaults but all sniff the BOM
- # [10:56] <annevk> hsivonen: yeah, I said the other thing we could do is not flip the default on Unicode
- # [10:56] <annevk> hsivonen: aaahh, that would be another option
- # [10:56] <hsivonen> annevk: but chances are that UTF-16 is so rare anyway that we can just go ahead with implementing the Encoding Standard
- # [10:57] <hsivonen> who checks document.characterSet anyway?
- # [10:57] <annevk> dunno; all three solutions above seem equally fine to me, though I guess the one in the Encoding Standard is the cleanest
- # [10:58] <annevk> (well, except maybe if we are going to mandate utf-16 sniffing anyway, then we could probably align with Unicode)
- # [10:58] <hsivonen> yay. Google Analytics
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- # [10:59] <hsivonen> dunno if we’ll break them, but they can take care of themselves and aren’t critical for the functionality experienced by the site user
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- # [10:59] <annevk> they check document.characterSet? whoa
- # [11:00] <annevk> I wonder what the use case for that is
- # [11:00] <hsivonen> https://code.google.com/codesearch#search/&q=.characterSet%20lang:^javascript$%20-file:urchin.js%20-file:ga.js&type=cs
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- # [11:02] <annevk> some weird code there
- # [11:03] <annevk> setting script.charset to document.charset, seems kinda redundant
- # [11:03] <annevk> but then it also sets script.type to text/javascript
- # [11:03] <annevk> people don't really know what they're doing
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- # [11:05] <hsivonen> If I add UTF-16 to the search, I find Gecko sources
- # [11:06] <hsivonen> so probably the Web doesn’t care
- # [11:06] <hsivonen> carry on
- # [11:10] * hsivonen sees https://twitter.com/JibberJim/status/266828515830272000
- # [11:13] <annevk> yeah, beautiful
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- # [11:22] <zcorpan> annevk: "Path could be reused here to keep parsed URL simple." seems confusing and unnecessary
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- # [11:45] <annevk> mkay
- # [11:57] <annevk> thanks for reviewing btw
- # [12:00] <Stevef_> FYI - I have taken up the position of co-faciltator of the html accessibility taskforce http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Nov/0002.html and would like to encourage everybody and anybody to participate or at least be open to providing technical feedback, feel free to ping me at anytime if you don't/won't/can't particiapate directly, I will endeavour to work constructively wit
- # [12:00] <Stevef_> h anyone within the constraints of the role (noting that I don't necessarily agree with all/some/any of the work being carried out at any particlaur time). And will be continuing my other web standards work as per usual
- # [12:01] <annevk> good luck to you and prolly good news for MikeSmith too
- # [12:02] <Stevef_> annevk: thanks i will need it...
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- # [12:08] <zcorpan> annevk: can http://resources.whatwg.org/ be made to show a directory index?
- # [12:08] <annevk> zcorpan: for the :active and :hover quirk, the way it is defined might lead to divergent results once there's a new selector type in town
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- # [12:08] <zcorpan> annevk: it's a living standard, i can update it when that happens :-P
- # [12:09] <annevk> zcorpan: it just seems like implementations would have implemented this as a standalone :hover / :active
- # [12:09] <annevk> zcorpan: so now it's a bunch of work to check whether that's the case in the spec too
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- # [12:10] <zcorpan> annevk: how do you suggest it should be specced?
- # [12:11] * annevk ducks
- # [12:11] <annevk> zcorpan: if you commit a .htaccess to whatwg/resources.whatwg.org it should work
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- # [12:19] <annevk> we should prolly think a bit about what we want to do there
- # [12:19] <annevk> maybe put the style sheet there too? logos
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- # [13:04] <annevk> zcorpan: hmm, I'll kill some of those DreamHost generated files
- # [13:05] <zcorpan> annevk: thanks
- # [13:05] <annevk> fixed
- # [13:07] <zcorpan> excellent
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- # [13:21] <annevk> teehee, mutation observer queue approved
- # [13:22] <annevk> now I need to commit it and then Opera and Microsoft better ship it fast
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The end :)