/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2012-11-09 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Nov 09 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  19. # [00:21] <TabAtkins> Anyone have an opinion on whether a <style scoped> scoped to the root element should be more specific than an unscoped stylesheet?
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  22. # [00:24] <TabAtkins> (Rules scoped to a descendant element are more specific than one scoped to an ancestor.)
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  24. # [00:25] <divya> what does more specific mean
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  27. # [00:25] <divya> override general html {} rule?
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  36. # [00:42] <TabAtkins> divya: I mean like specificity. This sets at a higher level than selector-specificity - if you're scoped at a lower element, you *automatically* win against rules scoped at a higher element.
  37. # [00:42] <TabAtkins> Just like !important rules auto-win against normal rules, regardless of the selector.
  38. # [00:44] <divya> TabAtkins: srry i am rusty on the jargon how would it look like in an e.g
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  75. # [02:19] * GPHemsley wonders why the IETF refers to us as WHAT-WG
  76. # [02:21] <GPHemsley> [22:38:11] <cyrusdaboo> MIME-Sniffing: no objections from the room to drop the draft in favor of WHAT-WG doing the work.
  77. # [02:21] <GPHemsley> [22:40:02] <cyrusdaboo> MIME-Sniffing: W3C had a reference to it, but now points to WHAT-WG so no issue with WG dropping it.
  78. # [02:22] <GPHemsley> (yay?)
  79. # [02:23] <GPHemsley> In other news, I hate M3U files.
  80. # [02:23] * jwalden guesses they're wondering, what working group?
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  82. # [02:23] <jwalden> ;-)
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  84. # [02:23] <annevk> WhatWG is also sometimes used
  85. # [02:24] <annevk> as the old old proverb goes, spelling is hard, lets go shopping
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  87. # [02:25] <annevk> GPHemsley: not sure if yay or nay that IETF decides this is not important
  88. # [02:27] <GPHemsley> annevk: Well, I don't know if they think it isn't important... I asked them to drop it: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/agenda/85/slides/slides-85-websec-3.pdf
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  91. # [02:27] <GPHemsley> (page 4, FTW)
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  94. # [02:29] <annevk> "from WHAT-WG" nice
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  96. # [02:30] <GPHemsley> Indeed.
  97. # [02:31] <GPHemsley> Sadly, the audio for the meeting doesn't work.
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  99. # [02:32] <annevk> did you try to open it in VLC?
  100. # [02:32] <GPHemsley> yup
  101. # [02:32] <GPHemsley> apparently the stream 404s
  102. # [02:32] <GPHemsley> It may have only been a livestream, rather than a recording
  103. # [02:34] <annevk> oh yeah it is
  104. # [02:34] <annevk> you can find recordings here: http://www.ietf.org/audio/ietf85/
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  107. # [02:40] <GPHemsley> oh my
  108. # [02:40] <GPHemsley> ok
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  110. # [02:43] <GPHemsley> I think this is supposed to be it, but it's very quiet: http://www.ietf.org/audio/ietf85/ietf85-grandballroomc-20121108-1730-pm3.mp3
  111. # [02:43] <GPHemsley> And it doesn't sound like anybody is discussing any agenda items
  112. # [02:43] <GPHemsley> it's also very short
  113. # [02:44] * GPHemsley shrugs
  114. # [02:44] <GPHemsley> I guess they got on alright without me
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  147. # [04:35] <MikeSmith> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-iri/2012Nov/0016.html
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  174. # [06:45] <MikeSmith> cool to see ap unilaterally declaring "consensus" based on feedback from just three people https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/FXTF/raw-file/tip/web-anim/index.html
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  176. # [06:46] <MikeSmith> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101660#c1
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  219. # [09:28] <hsivonen> patch review in the morning: r+ to flipping the default endianness for "UTF-16" in FileReader from Workers.
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  227. # [09:45] <hsivonen> annevk: see https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=809934#c1
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  230. # [09:48] <zcorpan> annevk: "Remove any leading and trailing ASCII whitespace from input." why does this only happen if /url/ is not given?
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  238. # [10:04] <hsivonen> https://twitter.com/ronsman/status/266692044460802048
  239. # [10:06] <annevk> zcorpan: state override is given if url is given
  240. # [10:06] <annevk> zcorpan: e.g. when you set query or pathname you don't want to strip spaces, afaict
  241. # [10:07] <zcorpan> annevk: ok
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  244. # [10:09] <annevk> I guess I should change http://url.spec.whatwg.org/#dom-url-href to not pass *url* and instead set *url* to the return value
  245. # [10:11] * Quits: JonathanNeal (~anonymous@cpe-142-11-82-156.socal.rr.com) (Quit: JonathanNeal)
  246. # [10:11] <annevk> and it should return url when neutering
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  251. # [10:14] <MikeSmith> wait you're really using the term neuter in the spec?
  252. # [10:14] <MikeSmith> hmm so I see there's so precedent for that
  253. # [10:15] <annevk> "Who will defend UTF-8 from ASCII suppremacists?" :-)
  254. # [10:15] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.19.229.getinternet.no) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  255. # [10:15] <annevk> MikeSmith: I would not have come up with that term on my own
  256. # [10:15] <MikeSmith> heh
  257. # [10:15] <hsivonen> who did?
  258. # [10:16] <MikeSmith> postMsg
  259. # [10:16] <MikeSmith> I think
  260. # [10:16] <hsivonen> In other news, someone found a tokenizer bug in the V.nu/Firefox HTML parser
  261. # [10:16] <MikeSmith> oh
  262. # [10:16] <MikeSmith> bug number?
  263. # [10:17] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=809956
  264. # [10:17] <MikeSmith> "lighting source"?
  265. # [10:18] <MikeSmith> ah
  266. # [10:18] <MikeSmith> he means syntax highlighting?
  267. # [10:18] <hsivonen> the summary had me go "WTF?", too, for a while
  268. # [10:19] <annevk> more pruf that spelling is hard
  269. # [10:19] <MikeSmith> I still wondering what "Pruf" means
  270. # [10:19] <MikeSmith> heh
  271. # [10:19] <annevk> and we should just go shopping
  272. # [10:19] <MikeSmith> ah proof
  273. # [10:19] <MikeSmith> ok
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  279. # [10:26] <hsivonen> the tokenizer bug is rather shocking
  280. # [10:27] <zcorpan> hsivonen: were there more bugs in the css tests?
  281. # [10:27] <hsivonen> zcorpan: no, AFAICT. thanks for fixing them
  282. # [10:28] <zcorpan> do you pass all tests except the utf-16 endianness one?
  283. # [10:28] <hsivonen> zcorpan: yes (unless I forgot to reload some test)
  284. # [10:28] <zcorpan> nice
  285. # [10:29] <hsivonen> I’m waiting for advice from Ms2ger and fantasai on how to import the tests
  286. # [10:29] <hsivonen> it seems unprecedented to import testharness.js tests from the CSS test suite
  287. # [10:30] <zcorpan> i wonder if the tests should be "approved"
  288. # [10:33] <hsivonen> this kind of tokenizer bug arises when Hixie is lazy and writes the spec like this: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/tokenization.html#cdata-section-state
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  290. # [10:38] <annevk> confirmed
  291. # [10:38] <annevk> Opera violated IDNA2008 first
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  293. # [10:40] <annevk> zcorpan: Kajtan did not mention supporting more domain label separators but Opera does
  294. # [10:41] <annevk> zcorpan: http://mathias.html5.org/tests/url/idna2003-separators/
  295. # [10:41] <zcorpan> annevk: feel free to reply to the email. he's cc-ed
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  299. # [10:43] <annevk> hsivonen: btw, re that utf-16 bug, I'm not sure how we're gonna find out except by testing
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  301. # [10:44] <annevk> hsivonen: I guess the another thing that could work is not flip the default on Unicode, but mandate sniffing
  302. # [10:49] * Joins: reinaldob (~reinaldob@201.74.207.100)
  303. # [10:49] <annevk> hmm no feedback yet on http://html5.org/temp/mo-queue.html
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  305. # [10:53] <zcorpan> hsivonen: would it be better to have separate states for "]" "]" and ">"?
  306. # [10:54] <zcorpan> (well i guess the ">" doesn't need a state of its own since you'd switch to the data state at that point)
  307. # [10:54] <annevk> hsivonen: why is that lazy? it's perfectly clear, no?
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  310. # [10:55] <hsivonen> annevk: well, IE compat involves willfully violating Unicode/IANA for the UTF-16 default endianness
  311. # [10:56] <hsivonen> annevk: the question is, should we have three independent labels that have defaults but all sniff the BOM
  312. # [10:56] <annevk> hsivonen: yeah, I said the other thing we could do is not flip the default on Unicode
  313. # [10:56] <annevk> hsivonen: aaahh, that would be another option
  314. # [10:56] <hsivonen> annevk: but chances are that UTF-16 is so rare anyway that we can just go ahead with implementing the Encoding Standard
  315. # [10:57] <hsivonen> who checks document.characterSet anyway?
  316. # [10:57] <annevk> dunno; all three solutions above seem equally fine to me, though I guess the one in the Encoding Standard is the cleanest
  317. # [10:58] <annevk> (well, except maybe if we are going to mandate utf-16 sniffing anyway, then we could probably align with Unicode)
  318. # [10:58] <hsivonen> yay. Google Analytics
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  320. # [10:59] <hsivonen> dunno if we’ll break them, but they can take care of themselves and aren’t critical for the functionality experienced by the site user
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  322. # [10:59] <annevk> they check document.characterSet? whoa
  323. # [11:00] <annevk> I wonder what the use case for that is
  324. # [11:00] <hsivonen> https://code.google.com/codesearch#search/&q=.characterSet%20lang:^javascript$%20-file:urchin.js%20-file:ga.js&type=cs
  325. # [11:01] * Joins: nonge_ (~nonge@p50829465.dip.t-dialin.net)
  326. # [11:02] <annevk> some weird code there
  327. # [11:03] <annevk> setting script.charset to document.charset, seems kinda redundant
  328. # [11:03] <annevk> but then it also sets script.type to text/javascript
  329. # [11:03] <annevk> people don't really know what they're doing
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  331. # [11:05] <hsivonen> If I add UTF-16 to the search, I find Gecko sources
  332. # [11:06] <hsivonen> so probably the Web doesn’t care
  333. # [11:06] <hsivonen> carry on
  334. # [11:10] * hsivonen sees https://twitter.com/JibberJim/status/266828515830272000
  335. # [11:13] <annevk> yeah, beautiful
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  339. # [11:22] <zcorpan> annevk: "Path could be reused here to keep parsed URL simple." seems confusing and unnecessary
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  346. # [11:45] <annevk> mkay
  347. # [11:57] <annevk> thanks for reviewing btw
  348. # [12:00] <Stevef_> FYI - I have taken up the position of co-faciltator of the html accessibility taskforce http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Nov/0002.html and would like to encourage everybody and anybody to participate or at least be open to providing technical feedback, feel free to ping me at anytime if you don't/won't/can't particiapate directly, I will endeavour to work constructively wit
  349. # [12:00] <Stevef_> h anyone within the constraints of the role (noting that I don't necessarily agree with all/some/any of the work being carried out at any particlaur time). And will be continuing my other web standards work as per usual
  350. # [12:01] <annevk> good luck to you and prolly good news for MikeSmith too
  351. # [12:02] <Stevef_> annevk: thanks i will need it...
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  354. # [12:08] <zcorpan> annevk: can http://resources.whatwg.org/ be made to show a directory index?
  355. # [12:08] <annevk> zcorpan: for the :active and :hover quirk, the way it is defined might lead to divergent results once there's a new selector type in town
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  359. # [12:08] <zcorpan> annevk: it's a living standard, i can update it when that happens :-P
  360. # [12:09] <annevk> zcorpan: it just seems like implementations would have implemented this as a standalone :hover / :active
  361. # [12:09] <annevk> zcorpan: so now it's a bunch of work to check whether that's the case in the spec too
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  363. # [12:10] <zcorpan> annevk: how do you suggest it should be specced?
  364. # [12:11] * annevk ducks
  365. # [12:11] <annevk> zcorpan: if you commit a .htaccess to whatwg/resources.whatwg.org it should work
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  369. # [12:19] <annevk> we should prolly think a bit about what we want to do there
  370. # [12:19] <annevk> maybe put the style sheet there too? logos
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  392. # [13:04] <annevk> zcorpan: hmm, I'll kill some of those DreamHost generated files
  393. # [13:05] <zcorpan> annevk: thanks
  394. # [13:05] <annevk> fixed
  395. # [13:07] <zcorpan> excellent
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  397. # [13:21] <annevk> teehee, mutation observer queue approved
  398. # [13:22] <annevk> now I need to commit it and then Opera and Microsoft better ship it fast
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The end :)